Re: [Twisted-Python] Python3 twistd daemon for Ubuntu 14.04 alternatives

[Tobias Oberstein]

Honestly, in the years I’ve been running Python services of different sizes, I 
have found that distro-provided system packages – unless you are writing 
software *for* a distribution – are loaded with so many downsides that they’re 
almost never worth it.  They’re a shortcut and shortcuts usually bite back 
*eventually*.


Absolutely.

Distro Python module packages are useless to dangerous most of the time.

Eg Debian jessie is shipping Autobahn in a >3 years old version (0.5.14).

From my perspective, Debian is hurting Autobahn's users this way - but 
we (upstream) cannot stop them distributing old outdated artifacts.


The whole idea of having a "system wide" Python installation is 
technically wrong and bound to fail IMO.


FWIW, I am in the Go/Rust camp: shipping single executables that are 
statically linked down to and including OpenSSL _and_ the C/C++ stdlibs.


It's just awesome to "scp etcd" from a CentOS 6 to a Ubuntu 16 or 
whatever and it "just works".


I have tried different approaches to get there with larger Python 
projects, but haven't found the equivalent to Go/Rust yet.


Apart from that: Ubuntu has broken new ground with snapcraft - this is 
much better than debs .. it puts upstream into power gain. Let upstream 
talk directly to users, kicking out distro package "maintainers".


Anway, just my 2cts

/Tobias



—h



___
Twisted-Python mailing list
Twisted-Python@twistedmatrix.com
http://twistedmatrix.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/twisted-python




___
Twisted-Python mailing list
Twisted-Python@twistedmatrix.com
http://twistedmatrix.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/twisted-python

Re: [Twisted-Python] Python3 twistd daemon for Ubuntu 14.04 alternatives

[Hynek Schlawack]

> 
>> I'm trying to point out that *some* might find the system Python attractive 
>> because they can use OS-supplied python packages in lieu of the effort of 
>> setting up a binary build infrastructure.
> 
> So, I think everyone has a different perspective here; Hynek seems to be 
> saying "all containers all the time" ;-).  But from my perspective, linux 
> distros provide a super useful service by providing a gigantic integrated 
> build environment for TONS of C code.  Avoiding the time and cost associated 
> with setting up, i.e., an ImageMagick dev environment is _WELL_ worth the 
> complexity of distro packages.  Multiply this out by dozens of dependencies 
> that a large application or site ends up needing, and distro packaging pays 
> for itself many times over.

I’m not sure what you mean by me meaning “all containers all the time” I feel I 
should rephrase my point:

- You should statically link your Python application so you have always full 
control over your deployments.
- Don’t ship build tools to prod servers.

The way we can achieve that is by building virtualenvs on build servers.  *How* 
you get those virtualenvs to the deployments target I don’t care.  Whether you 
pex them or not, I don’t care either¹.  I’ve used .debs with great success in 
the past and I’m using Docker containers now (and so far we’re not out of 
business :)).

I consider Linux distributions very nice build environments for my own 
software. :)  And there’s thing we totally don’t compile ourselves like 
OpenSSL.  It just doesn’t make any goddam sense to rely on the limited and 
outdated offer of Python modules from your distribution.  Even if they don’t 
upgrade them under your butt and introduce regressions.

—h

¹ For me apps always go to the same location so relocability is not an issue.  
Contrary I’m not a super fan of having one opaque blob on server; the 
transparent structure of a virtualenv is something I learned to appreciate.___
Twisted-Python mailing list
Twisted-Python@twistedmatrix.com
http://twistedmatrix.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/twisted-python

Re: [Twisted-Python] Removing support for old Python 3 versions

[Tom Most]

On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 1:30 AM, Glyph Lefkowitz 
wrote:

>
> Is there a "pre-installed on hardware that's hard to change" issue here?
> Do Raspbian users generally upgrade to new stable releases?
>
> -g
>

There's also a substantial lag after a Debian release before the
corresponding version of Raspbian becomes generally available. Debian
Jessie was released April 2015, but Raspbian Jessie looks to have gone GA
in September[1] (though you could get it sooner by adjusting your apt
sources).

[1]: https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/raspbian-jessie-is-here/

---Tom
___
Twisted-Python mailing list
Twisted-Python@twistedmatrix.com
http://twistedmatrix.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/twisted-python

Re: [Twisted-Python] Removing support for old Python 3 versions

[Glyph Lefkowitz]

> On Feb 24, 2017, at 3:29 PM, Tom Most  wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 1:30 AM, Glyph Lefkowitz  > wrote:
> 
> Is there a "pre-installed on hardware that's hard to change" issue here?  Do 
> Raspbian users generally upgrade to new stable releases?
> 
> -g
> 
> There's also a substantial lag after a Debian release before the 
> corresponding version of Raspbian becomes generally available. Debian Jessie 
> was released April 2015, but Raspbian Jessie looks to have gone GA in 
> September[1] (though you could get it sooner by adjusting your apt sources).
> 
> [1]: https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/raspbian-jessie-is-here/ 
> 

So Jesse (== CPython 3.4) is still what's current for Raspbian users?

-glyph___
Twisted-Python mailing list
Twisted-Python@twistedmatrix.com
http://twistedmatrix.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/twisted-python