[Twisted-Python] When's the next release?

[Jonathan Lange]

Hello!

I've just landed a fix to #4811, which ought to make it possible to use
trial with regular standard library unittests that have expected failures &
unexpected successes.

I'm very keen to start using that in my code base, and the easiest way for
me to do that is for there to be an official release of Twisted. When might
one expect the next release to take place?

Thanks,
jml
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[Twisted-Python] PotentialZombieWarning warning message?

[pisymbol .]

Hi:

I'd like to adopt Twisted for a current project I'm coding up. I'm on
CentOS 6.7 x86-64 using python v2.6 and the stock
python-twisted-8.2.0-3.1 package built for this release.

No matter what I do when trying to implement the Process protocol or
use utils.getProcessOutput() directly, I always see the following
warning message on the console:

/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/twisted/internet/utils.py:25:
PotentialZombieWarning: spawnProcess called, but the SIGCHLD handler
is not installed. This probably means you have not yet called
reactor.run, or called reactor.run(installSignalHandler=0). You will
probably never see this process finish, and it may become a zombie
process.
  reactor.spawnProcess(p, executable, (executable,)+tuple(args), env, path)
...

Is there anyway to get rid of this message? I realize I'm using an
older release of twisted but I can't upgrade to the latest without
incurring the cost of installing an python v2.7 or greater.

My script is literally:

d = utils.getProcessOutput('/bin/ls')
d.addCallbacks(writeResponse, noResponse)
reactor.run()

etc.

What am I doing wrong?

-aps

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Re: [Twisted-Python] PotentialZombieWarning warning message?

[Amber "Hawkie" Brown]

> On 14 Dec 2015, at 22:52, pisymbol .  wrote:
> 
> Hi:
> 
> I'd like to adopt Twisted for a current project I'm coding up. I'm on
> CentOS 6.7 x86-64 using python v2.6 and the stock
> python-twisted-8.2.0-3.1 package built for this release.

...

> Is there anyway to get rid of this message? I realize I'm using an
> older release of twisted but I can't upgrade to the latest without
> incurring the cost of installing an python v2.7 or greater.

Hi,

Python 2.6 has been EOL for years and Twisted 8.2.0 is nearly seven years old. 
We can't really help with things that old (many, many issues have since been 
fixed, so remembering what's a bug that's been squashed and what's a platform 
bug is nearly impossible), but upgrading to Twisted 15.4 (the last release with 
Python 2.6 support, and only 4 or so months old) may help.

- Amber


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Re: [Twisted-Python] When's the next release?

[Amber "Hawkie" Brown]

Hi!

Since a release went out just the other week, I'd say January at the earliest. 
Every 2-3 months is the schedule that seems to balance getting things out there 
with the burden of downstream & users having to handle updates.

- Amber

> On 14 Dec 2015, at 20:16, Jonathan Lange  wrote:
> 
> Hello!
> 
> I've just landed a fix to #4811, which ought to make it possible to use trial 
> with regular standard library unittests that have expected failures & 
> unexpected successes.
> 
> I'm very keen to start using that in my code base, and the easiest way for me 
> to do that is for there to be an official release of Twisted. When might one 
> expect the next release to take place?
> 
> Thanks,
> jml
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Re: [Twisted-Python] PotentialZombieWarning warning message?

[pisymbol .]

On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 10:09 AM, Amber "Hawkie" Brown
 wrote:
>
>> On 14 Dec 2015, at 22:52, pisymbol .  wrote:
>>
>> Hi:
>>
>> I'd like to adopt Twisted for a current project I'm coding up. I'm on
>> CentOS 6.7 x86-64 using python v2.6 and the stock
>> python-twisted-8.2.0-3.1 package built for this release.
>
> ...
>
>> Is there anyway to get rid of this message? I realize I'm using an
>> older release of twisted but I can't upgrade to the latest without
>> incurring the cost of installing an python v2.7 or greater.
>
> Hi,
>
> Python 2.6 has been EOL for years and Twisted 8.2.0 is nearly seven years 
> old. We can't really help with things that old (many, many issues have since 
> been fixed, so remembering what's a bug that's been squashed and what's a 
> platform bug is nearly impossible), but upgrading to Twisted 15.4 (the last 
> release with Python 2.6 support, and only 4 or so months old) may help.

That maybe, but CentOS 6.7 is the latest 6.x release which ships with
8.2.x (somebody maintaining the RHEL 6.x series should update these
packages then).

I did a pip install and it said I needed Python 2.7 or higher. Let me
reevaluate if I can just update twisted.

Thanks!

-aps

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Re: [Twisted-Python] PotentialZombieWarning warning message?

[Glyph Lefkowitz]

> On Dec 14, 2015, at 12:38 PM, pisymbol .  wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 10:09 AM, Amber "Hawkie" Brown
>  wrote:
>> 
>>> On 14 Dec 2015, at 22:52, pisymbol .  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi:
>>> 
>>> I'd like to adopt Twisted for a current project I'm coding up. I'm on
>>> CentOS 6.7 x86-64 using python v2.6 and the stock
>>> python-twisted-8.2.0-3.1 package built for this release.
>> 
>> ...
>> 
>>> Is there anyway to get rid of this message? I realize I'm using an
>>> older release of twisted but I can't upgrade to the latest without
>>> incurring the cost of installing an python v2.7 or greater.
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Python 2.6 has been EOL for years and Twisted 8.2.0 is nearly seven years 
>> old. We can't really help with things that old (many, many issues have since 
>> been fixed, so remembering what's a bug that's been squashed and what's a 
>> platform bug is nearly impossible), but upgrading to Twisted 15.4 (the last 
>> release with Python 2.6 support, and only 4 or so months old) may help.
> 
> That maybe, but CentOS 6.7 is the latest 6.x release which ships with
> 8.2.x (somebody maintaining the RHEL 6.x series should update these
> packages then).
> 
> I did a pip install and it said I needed Python 2.7 or higher. Let me
> reevaluate if I can just update twisted.

Try `pip install twisted==15.4´ if you still require Python2.6 support; `pip 
install twisted´ will install the latest, which no longer works on 2.6.

But again: Python 2.6 is unsupported by the upstream Python developers.  You 
really should not be using it, since it won't receive security updates (of 
course, Red Hat and transitively CentOS claim to "support" these packages, but 
if upstream is refusing patches at this point, it's not clear where that 
support will come from).  This is why we changed our policy to proactively 
disable it: it's a security risk and we would like to put pressure on 
downstreams (such as yourself) to stop taking on this risk without realizing it.

If you must use CentOS 6, then I'd recommend installing PyPy 4.0 from 
https://github.com/squeaky-pl/portable-pypy#portable-pypy-distribution-for-linux
 

 and using that.  In addition to being security-supported, it will also make 
your python code run 10x faster :).

-glyph

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Re: [Twisted-Python] PotentialZombieWarning warning message?

[pisymbol .]

On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 4:51 PM, Glyph Lefkowitz
 wrote:
> I did a pip install and it said I needed Python 2.7 or higher. Let me
> reevaluate if I can just update twisted.
>
>
> Try `pip install twisted==15.4´ if you still require Python2.6 support; `pip
> install twisted´ will install the latest, which no longer works on 2.6.

Yeah, that's what I did. It's working now!

> But again: Python 2.6 is unsupported by the upstream Python developers.  You
> really should not be using it, since it won't receive security updates (of
> course, Red Hat and transitively CentOS claim to "support" these packages,
> but if upstream is refusing patches at this point, it's not clear where that
> support will come from).

As you can imagine, this boils down to politics.

> If you must use CentOS 6, then I'd recommend installing PyPy 4.0 from
> https://github.com/squeaky-pl/portable-pypy#portable-pypy-distribution-for-linux
> and using that.  In addition to being security-supported, it will also make
> your python code run 10x faster :).

Interesting, I'll take a look.

-aps

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Re: [Twisted-Python] PotentialZombieWarning warning message?

[Glyph Lefkowitz]

> On Dec 14, 2015, at 3:53 PM, pisymbol .  wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 4:51 PM, Glyph Lefkowitz
>  wrote:
>> I did a pip install and it said I needed Python 2.7 or higher. Let me
>> reevaluate if I can just update twisted.
>> 
>> 
>> Try `pip install twisted==15.4´ if you still require Python2.6 support; `pip
>> install twisted´ will install the latest, which no longer works on 2.6.
> 
> Yeah, that's what I did. It's working now!

Great!  Glad to hear you were able to make a huge leap in Twisted versions with 
little trouble :-).

>> But again: Python 2.6 is unsupported by the upstream Python developers.  You
>> really should not be using it, since it won't receive security updates (of
>> course, Red Hat and transitively CentOS claim to "support" these packages,
>> but if upstream is refusing patches at this point, it's not clear where that
>> support will come from).
> 
> As you can imagine, this boils down to politics.

I understand that things like this often do, which is exactly why I want to 
make it clear that we (speaking in terms of the broader Python community now, 
not just Twisted) are trying to push people towards more recent versions just 
because they're more fun or more aesthetically pleasant, but because there are 
very real risks associated with being on unsupported ancient versions of 
things.  It pains me not to be supporting a configuration that some users want, 
but there is a line where "conservative about change" becomes "negligent about 
maintenance" and python 2.6 crossed it a little over two years ago :-).

>> If you must use CentOS 6, then I'd recommend installing PyPy 4.0 from
>> https://github.com/squeaky-pl/portable-pypy#portable-pypy-distribution-for-linux
>> and using that.  In addition to being security-supported, it will also make
>> your python code run 10x faster :).
> 
> Interesting, I'll take a look.

Hope that works out for you.  Good luck!

-glyph


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Re: [Twisted-Python] PotentialZombieWarning warning message?

[pisymbol .]

On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 7:43 PM, Glyph Lefkowitz
 wrote:
>
>> On Dec 14, 2015, at 3:53 PM, pisymbol .  wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 4:51 PM, Glyph Lefkowitz
>>  wrote:
>>> I did a pip install and it said I needed Python 2.7 or higher. Let me
>>> reevaluate if I can just update twisted.
>>>
>>>
>>> Try `pip install twisted==15.4´ if you still require Python2.6 support; `pip
>>> install twisted´ will install the latest, which no longer works on 2.6.
>>
>> Yeah, that's what I did. It's working now!
>
> Great!  Glad to hear you were able to make a huge leap in Twisted versions 
> with little trouble :-).
>
>>> But again: Python 2.6 is unsupported by the upstream Python developers.  You
>>> really should not be using it, since it won't receive security updates (of
>>> course, Red Hat and transitively CentOS claim to "support" these packages,
>>> but if upstream is refusing patches at this point, it's not clear where that
>>> support will come from).
>>
>> As you can imagine, this boils down to politics.
>
> I understand that things like this often do, which is exactly why I want to 
> make it clear that we (speaking in terms of the broader Python community now, 
> not just Twisted) are trying to push people towards more recent versions just 
> because they're more fun or more aesthetically pleasant, but because there 
> are very real risks associated with being on unsupported ancient versions of 
> things.  It pains me not to be supporting a configuration that some users 
> want, but there is a line where "conservative about change" becomes 
> "negligent about maintenance" and python 2.6 crossed it a little over two 
> years ago :-).

I'm not disagreeing with you per se...but...

The fact is the Python community at large then needs to convince the
distro maintainers accordingly. Telling a customer to update their
entire platform for a newer version of Python isn't going to fly a lot
of times (and remember, someone of them have support agreements with
RH).

And running two versions of Python can get messy real fast.

Anyway, it is what it is.

>>> If you must use CentOS 6, then I'd recommend installing PyPy 4.0 from
>>> https://github.com/squeaky-pl/portable-pypy#portable-pypy-distribution-for-linux
>>> and using that.  In addition to being security-supported, it will also make
>>> your python code run 10x faster :).
>>
>> Interesting, I'll take a look.
>
> Hope that works out for you.  Good luck!

Thanks! So far, so good. I was now able to lift my prototype code and
integrate it with the rest.

I'll probably have more questions at some point, but at least 15.4 did
the trick!

-aps

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Python 2.7 on CentOS 6 (was: PotentialZombieWarning warning message?)

[Amber "Hawkie" Brown]

> On 15 Dec 2015, at 08:43, Glyph Lefkowitz  wrote:
> 
>>> But again: Python 2.6 is unsupported by the upstream Python developers.  You
>>> really should not be using it, since it won't receive security updates (of
>>> course, Red Hat and transitively CentOS claim to "support" these packages,
>>> but if upstream is refusing patches at this point, it's not clear where that
>>> support will come from).
>> 
>> As you can imagine, this boils down to politics.
> 
> I understand that things like this often do, which is exactly why I want to 
> make it clear that we (speaking in terms of the broader Python community now, 
> not just Twisted) are trying to push people towards more recent versions just 
> because they're more fun or more aesthetically pleasant, but because there 
> are very real risks associated with being on unsupported ancient versions of 
> things.  It pains me not to be supporting a configuration that some users 
> want, but there is a line where "conservative about change" becomes 
> "negligent about maintenance" and python 2.6 crossed it a little over two 
> years ago :-).

There is a solution to this, and Nick Coghlan has mentioned it to me many times 
-- Software Collections for RHEL and CentOS. Software Collections is RH's 
answer to "new software" on "stable distributions" --  SCLs operate 
side-by-side with system packages, so it won't break anything. Since you're a 
CentOS 6.7 user, the standard SCL should work (it's 6.5+).

You can find the Python 2.7 SCL at 
https://www.softwarecollections.org/en/scls/rhscl/python27/, and CentOS 
publishes instructions on using them on 
https://wiki.centos.org/AdditionalResources/Repositories/SCL . This might solve 
your problem of being restrained to CentOS 6, but Python 2.6 being EOL'd 
everywhere but it.

- Amber


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