Re: [Tagging] [RFC] Feature Proposal - Cell Phone Reception

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 08.08.23 14:43, Brian M. Sperlongano wrote:
The fundamental thing that you're trying to 
map here simply doesn't belong in OSM, the proposal will not pass, and I 
would advise you to stop wasting your time and everyone else's on it.


Agree. Also, what flohoff said about volatility.

The goal would be better served by a (non-OSM) service that 
automatically collects data from apps that people have installed on 
their phone and that sends measurements to a server while they are 
moving around.


I don't see this in OSM.

Bye
Frederik

--
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [Tagging] [RFC] Feature Proposal - Cell Phone Reception

[Yves via Tagging]

Exactly, one have to keep in mind you are lucky if stuff get updated in OSM 
more frequently than once every  a few years.
Yves 

Le 8 août 2023 19:11:25 GMT+02:00, Florian Lohoff  a écrit :
>On Sun, Aug 06, 2023 at 07:18:29PM +, NickKatchur via Tagging wrote:
>> Hello,
>> 
>> I have developed a proposal to indicate the availability of cell phone
>> service at nodes and areas,
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposal:Cell_reception.
>
>I would consider this data much to volatile to make sense in OSM.
>Cellphone Networks are constantly changing, frequencies, modulation,
>coverage, sector antennas are replaced constantly. So GSM may fade out,
>LTE comes in. Different frequency, different coverage.
>
>Flo
>-- 
>Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de
>  Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
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Re: [Tagging] [RFC] Feature Proposal - Cell Phone Reception

[Marc_marc]

Le 10.08.23 à 10:03, Frederik Ramm a écrit :

volatility.


with this argument, you'd have to remove all the shop= office=* craft=*, 
it's much more volatile than the concrete wall surrounding the music 
room I mentioned in the previous email.

let's also remove maxspeed, more volatil than concrete wall

The goal would be better served by a (non-OSM) service that 
automatically collects data from apps that people have installed on 
their phone and that sends measurements to a server while they are 
moving around.


and then ? How do you see the possibility of, for example,
Qwant map informing you that the POI selected is not covered by the GSM 
network while the POI on the floor above is covered?

is it mandatory to add ele to opencellid.org and osm to be able to link
to correct poi to the correct data ? are we also going to delete 
internet_access=* and replace it with openinternetaccess.org ?


Meanwhile, Overture will be welcoming data with open arms,
and we'll be wondering why openstreetmap has become nothing more
than a one-line technical detail in news about geomatics.

I think we're really better off accepting a =no =limited =yes key
for those who see a use for stable situations (obviously it's not
a question of mapping a temporary fact).

Regards,
Marc



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Re: [Tagging] [RFC] Feature Proposal - Cell Phone Reception

[Marc_marc]

Le 07.08.23 à 21:44, Mark Wagner a écrit :
The problem with this proposal is that coverage information 
is really only interesting on the fringes


set let's map on the fringes :)

you could say the same thing about surface=asphalt...
adding this to a motorway in some countries
is not very interesting, it provides information
on the fringes :) outside the main road network.

PS: the dentist's surgery I mentioned in my previous email
is located in a capital city, and the multi-purpose room I'm talking 
about is within sight of a 4G antenna if you leave the building

so it's not the 100 km2 white zone that everyone knows about.
it's spots... and not everyone knew that, at least not me :)

it's also fairly stable information : the dentist's surgery
has been like this for at least 15 years,
the multi-purpose room is probably as old as I am, while the
club's name has already been changed (perhaps club=* should
be deleted, too volatile, and everyone knows it - is that the logic?)



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Re: [Tagging] [RFC] Feature Proposal - Cell Phone Reception

[Brian M. Sperlongano]

On Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 6:28 AM Marc_marc  wrote:

> with this argument, you'd have to remove all the shop= office=* craft=*,
>

Nonsense.  Everyone knows what a craft=brewery is.  It's not volatile at
all.  They either make beer or they don't.  Cell reception is ephemeral.


> let's also remove maxspeed


It's literally posted on a sign.


> Meanwhile, Overture will be welcoming data with open arms,
>

Oh no!  Other users of OSM data!  (that's sarcasm, for anyone not a native
speaker of English).
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Re: [Tagging] [RFC] Feature Proposal - Cell Phone Reception

[Marc_marc]

Le 10.08.23 à 14:22, Brian M. Sperlongano a écrit :


On Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 6:28 AM Marc_marc > wrote:


with this argument, you'd have to remove all the shop= office=*
craft=*,


Nonsense.  Everyone knows what a craft=brewery is.  
It's not volatile at  all.


my argument is that shop office craft change more often than areas 
without gsm reception, cfr the example above: the location has gsm 
non-reception characteristics "for life", while the occupant has already 
changed 2x.


perhaps in your country the shops are immutable, here that's not the 
case, and in my eyes that's one of the most volatile pieces of data in 
osm, I check them every year and every year there are changes to be 
made... the areas without reception that I know of have been like that 
for over a decade, there would have been nothing to change in the last 
15 years.




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