Re: [Tagging] Add man_made=goods_conveyor to Map Features or vote on the proposal first?
+1 Javbw > On Mar 12, 2020, at 8:22 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer > wrote: > > I am in favor of adding it right away. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Add man_made=goods_conveyor to Map Features or vote on the proposal first?
It’s been added to the lists at Key:man_made and Map Features. On Sun, Mar 15, 2020 at 5:31 AM John Willis via Tagging < tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote: > +1 > > Javbw > > > On Mar 12, 2020, at 8:22 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer > wrote: > > > > I am in favor of adding it right away. > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] landuse meadow getting the right description emphases
Hi, The present description of landuse=meadow is; An area of meadow or pasture: land primarily vegetated by grass and other non-woody plants, mainly used for hay or grazing. That places the land cover before the land use. The emphases should be on the land use, the land use should be first? Possibly a better description: An area of meadow or pasture: land primarily used to produce hay or for grazing of animals. Usually vegetated by grass and other non-woody plants. I am trying to get mappers not to use this for areas of grass land that could be more appropriatly tagged natural=grassland. Thoughts? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] landuse meadow getting the right description emphases
Unfortunately, a slight change to the description on the wiki will not stop mappers from using landuse=meadow for a wide variety of features. Currently there is even a tag meadow=perpetual for "meadows which are maintained by natural environmental conditions", which I would normally tag as natural=grassland. However, I do think that the description needs to say that it is mainly covered in grass and similar non-woody plants There are many areas of rangeland in semi-arid regions where the main vegetations is scrub or dwarf scrub (bushes and dwarf shrubs), where the primary landuse is grazing cattle or sheep. These areas are not tagged as landuse=meadow, because they are not a meadow or pasture: there is not much grass. Many of them can be tagged as natural=heath or natural=scrub, describing the semi-natural vegetation. The presence of mainly grass (or sedges, clover, other herbaceous plants) is just as important as the presence of grazing or occasional hay-cutting, to define a meadow or pasture. - Joseph Eisenberg On 3/15/20, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > The present description of landuse=meadow is; > > An area of meadow or pasture: land primarily vegetated by grass and other > non-woody plants, mainly used for hay or grazing. > > That places the land cover before the land use. The emphases should be on > the land use, the land use should be first? > > Possibly a better description: > > An area of meadow or pasture: land primarily used to produce hay or for > grazing of animals. Usually vegetated by grass and other non-woody plants. > > > > I am trying to get mappers not to use this for areas of grass land that > could be more appropriatly tagged natural=grassland. > > Thoughts? > > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] landuse meadow getting the right description emphases
On 15/3/20 4:36 pm, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: Unfortunately, a slight change to the description on the wiki will not stop mappers from using landuse=meadow for a wide variety of features. Usually these are 'armchair mappers'. What they typically see is land cover not a land use. Currently there is even a tag meadow=perpetual for "meadows which are maintained by natural environmental conditions", which I would normally tag as natural=grassland. However, I do think that the description needs to say that it is mainly covered in grass and similar non-woody plants There would be nothing wrong with tagging both landuse=meadow with natural=grassland (or similar) One is a land use the other a land cover. There are many areas of rangeland in semi-arid regions where the main vegetations is scrub or dwarf scrub (bushes and dwarf shrubs), where the primary landuse is grazing cattle or sheep. These areas are not tagged as landuse=meadow, because they are not a meadow or pasture: there is not much grass. Many of them can be tagged as natural=heath or natural=scrub, describing the semi-natural vegetation. Here sheep give way to cattle in the more arid regions. The presence of mainly grass (or sedges, clover, other herbaceous plants) is just as important as the presence of grazing or occasional hay-cutting, to define a meadow or pasture. The grass is not there once cut, the remains are stubble. Hence the word 'usually' can be employed? - Joseph Eisenberg On 3/15/20, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: Hi, The present description of landuse=meadow is; An area of meadow or pasture: land primarily vegetated by grass and other non-woody plants, mainly used for hay or grazing. That places the land cover before the land use. The emphases should be on the land use, the land use should be first? Possibly a better description: An area of meadow or pasture: land primarily used to produce hay or for grazing of animals. Usually vegetated by grass and other non-woody plants. I am trying to get mappers not to use this for areas of grass land that could be more appropriatly tagged natural=grassland. Thoughts? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] landuse meadow getting the right description emphases
> One is a land use the other a land cover. In practice they are both types of vegetation (grass + similar). Mappers have to base their tagging off of what can be seen: that's the type of vegetation (grass and other herbaceous plants), plus other clues such as fences, the presence of grazing animals, or other signs of mowing for hay or grazing. > The grass is not there once cut Generallly there is still a couple of centimeters of grass leaves remaining after mowing for hay. It looks like a mowed lawn, or the rough of a golf course, not nearly as short as the fairway or green. (Source: I used to work "bucking hay", lifting hay bales onto the truck, during high school) On 3/15/20, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: > On 15/3/20 4:36 pm, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: >> Unfortunately, a slight change to the description on the wiki will not >> stop mappers from using landuse=meadow for a wide variety of features. > > > Usually these are 'armchair mappers'. What they typically see is land cover > not a land use. > >> >> Currently there is even a tag meadow=perpetual for "meadows which are >> maintained by natural environmental conditions", which I would >> normally tag as natural=grassland. >> >> However, I do think that the description needs to say that it is >> mainly covered in grass and similar non-woody plants > > > There would be nothing wrong with tagging both > > landuse=meadow > > with > > natural=grassland (or similar) > > One is a land use the other a land cover. > >> >> There are many areas of rangeland in semi-arid regions where the main >> vegetations is scrub or dwarf scrub (bushes and dwarf shrubs), where >> the primary landuse is grazing cattle or sheep. These areas are not >> tagged as landuse=meadow, because they are not a meadow or pasture: >> there is not much grass. Many of them can be tagged as natural=heath >> or natural=scrub, describing the semi-natural vegetation. > > Here sheep give way to cattle in the more arid regions. > >> >> The presence of mainly grass (or sedges, clover, other herbaceous >> plants) is just as important as the presence of grazing or occasional >> hay-cutting, to define a meadow or pasture. > > The grass is not there once cut, the remains are stubble. Hence the word > 'usually' can be employed? > >> >> - Joseph Eisenberg >> >> On 3/15/20, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> The present description of landuse=meadow is; >>> >>> An area of meadow or pasture: land primarily vegetated by grass and >>> other >>> non-woody plants, mainly used for hay or grazing. >>> >>> That places the land cover before the land use. The emphases should be >>> on >>> the land use, the land use should be first? >>> >>> Possibly a better description: >>> >>> An area of meadow or pasture: land primarily used to produce hay or for >>> grazing of animals. Usually vegetated by grass and other non-woody >>> plants. >>> >>> >>> >>> I am trying to get mappers not to use this for areas of grass land that >>> could be more appropriatly tagged natural=grassland. >>> >>> Thoughts? >>> >>> >> ___ >> Tagging mailing list >> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] landuse meadow getting the right description emphases
Why would you want to "force" using more than one class for meadows when absolute majority of maps will not need more that one class? -- Tomas ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] landuse meadow getting the right description emphases
On 15/3/20 4:55 pm, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: One is a land use the other a land cover. In practice they are both types of vegetation (grass + similar). Mappers have to base their tagging off of what can be seen: that's the type of vegetation (grass and other herbaceous plants), plus other clues such as fences, the presence of grazing animals, or other signs of mowing for hay or grazing. Only the presence of grazing animal says 'landuse=meadow'. Grass alone may be a field in crop rotation where it is left fallow. The grass is not there once cut Generallly there is still a couple of centimeters of grass leaves remaining after mowing for hay. It looks like a mowed lawn, or the rough of a golf course, not nearly as short as the fairway or green. (Source: I used to work "bucking hay", lifting hay bales onto the truck, during high school) I have several generation of farmers in my family. I too have maneuvered hay bales, driven tractors, helped milk cows etc etc. On 3/15/20, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: On 15/3/20 4:36 pm, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: Unfortunately, a slight change to the description on the wiki will not stop mappers from using landuse=meadow for a wide variety of features. Usually these are 'armchair mappers'. What they typically see is land cover not a land use. Currently there is even a tag meadow=perpetual for "meadows which are maintained by natural environmental conditions", which I would normally tag as natural=grassland. However, I do think that the description needs to say that it is mainly covered in grass and similar non-woody plants There would be nothing wrong with tagging both landuse=meadow with natural=grassland (or similar) One is a land use the other a land cover. There are many areas of rangeland in semi-arid regions where the main vegetations is scrub or dwarf scrub (bushes and dwarf shrubs), where the primary landuse is grazing cattle or sheep. These areas are not tagged as landuse=meadow, because they are not a meadow or pasture: there is not much grass. Many of them can be tagged as natural=heath or natural=scrub, describing the semi-natural vegetation. Here sheep give way to cattle in the more arid regions. The presence of mainly grass (or sedges, clover, other herbaceous plants) is just as important as the presence of grazing or occasional hay-cutting, to define a meadow or pasture. But grass can be present without being a meadow. The grass is not there once cut, the remains are stubble. Hence the word 'usually' can be employed? - Joseph Eisenberg On 3/15/20, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: Hi, The present description of landuse=meadow is; An area of meadow or pasture: land primarily vegetated by grass and other non-woody plants, mainly used for hay or grazing. That places the land cover before the land use. The emphases should be on the land use, the land use should be first? Possibly a better description: An area of meadow or pasture: land primarily used to produce hay or for grazing of animals. Usually vegetated by grass and other non-woody plants. I am trying to get mappers not to use this for areas of grass land that could be more appropriatly tagged natural=grassland. Thoughts? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] landuse meadow getting the right description emphases
On 15/3/20 5:01 pm, Tomas Straupis wrote: Why would you want to "force" using more than one class for meadows when absolute majority of maps will not need more that one class? Not certain what the above refers to? I'll take it as meadow=perpetual. There is no real 'force' on a mapper to do anything. If a mapper chooses not to use the subtags then they don't have to. Similar can be said of many sub tags. If mappers want to map it then give them a way to do so in a logical manner. If any renders care to display it or not is their choice. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
