[Tagging] request for review: OSM wiki rewording of tourism=motel based on Wikipedia

[bkil]

I've made a major rewording of this tag. Please review and don't hesitate
to comment or improve if I've mistakenly changed the meaning of the tag:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag%3Atourism%3Dmotel&type=revision&diff=1755686&oldid=1561324

Source: based on Wikipedia and recent mapping experience:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/65702446#map=9/47.1412/18.6632

It also looks like some have used the word motel for what should have been
pensions and guest houses around here, I'll also fix these later.
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[Tagging] `Uncontrasted` tactile paving

[tomoya muramoto]

Hi, all.

Recently I've noticed there is `tactile_paving=contrasted` tag.

I want to specify "uncontrasted" tactile pavings also.
Like these:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Tactile_paving,_with_obstructions.jpg
https://amanaimages.com/info/infoRM.aspx?SearchKey=25086003003

The tag would be useful for partially sighted people. They would know
tactile paving exists there even if they can't see it.

What is the best tag for it?

Here are my ideas.
`tactile_paving=uncontrasted` ?
`tactile_paving:contrasted=no` ?

Thanks,

muramoto
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Re: [Tagging] request for review: OSM wiki rewording of tourism=motel based on Wikipedia

[Joseph Eisenberg]

The one concern I have is the new sentences that suggest that hotels are
“typically not [booked for ] single night” while motels are usually booked
for 1 night.

I have certainly stayed for 2 to 3 nights at a “Motel 6” and other motels.

And I have never encountered problems booking rooms for a single night at 3
and 3.5 star hotels for business trips.

On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 6:34 PM bkil  wrote:

> I've made a major rewording of this tag. Please review and don't hesitate
> to comment or improve if I've mistakenly changed the meaning of the tag:
>
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag%3Atourism%3Dmotel&type=revision&diff=1755686&oldid=1561324
>
> Source: based on Wikipedia and recent mapping experience:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/65702446#map=9/47.1412/18.6632
>
> It also looks like some have used the word motel for what should have been
> pensions and guest houses around here, I'll also fix these later.
> ___
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>
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Re: [Tagging] Trailhead tagging

[Marc Gemis]

I think the parking place for the Precipice walk in Wales
(https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/394294583) which also has a toilet
and a picnic table would be considered a trailhead.
There is also a nice sign
https://xian.smugmug.com/Vacation/Wales-2018/i-hC7kWcK/A to tell you
that you are at the right place to start the walk
(http://dolgellau.wales/walks/precipice-walk.php)

But given that all the facilities and paths are mapped, I wonder which
additional information "trailhead" brings in this case.

m.

On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 2:31 PM Andy Townsend  wrote:
>
> Can you give a few examples of what trailheads are to you?  There's a clearly 
> defined American concept, it isn't not really used much in British English.  
> Also what do you mean by "official" below - is there some kind of VVV list or 
> similar?
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Andy
>
> On 21/12/2018 11:54, Peter Elderson wrote:
>
> I would like to revive the trailhead proposal, 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/trailhead
>
> After discussions in the Dutch user community, a list of all Dutch trailheads 
> was compiled and systematically entered as nodes tagged highway=trailhead, 
> name=, tourism=information, information=board or 
> map. Many trailheads were already present in OSM, there we just did some 
> additional tagging.
>
> In the US, trailheads are all maintained on OSM by a national operator. Japan 
> has lots of trailheads, I don't know how they are maintained. In Europe, no 
> systematical OSM-tagging appears to take place, except for the Dutch base.
>
> I think it deserves a push.
>
> Any thoughts on the matter?
>
> --
> Vr gr Peter Elderson
>
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Re: [Tagging] request for review: OSM wiki rewording of tourism=motel based on Wikipedia

[bkil]

Thank you for the insight, I'll try to figure out a better wording there.
I'm also considering to improve the wording of the guest house and hotel
articles in the future, though I'll need to find a way to do this without
adding too much redundancy.

Well, what I wanted to convey in those sentences was that I'd expect the
average booked nights per stay to be lower for a motel compared to a hotel.

Compared to renting a flat, both motel and hotel stays are considered
short-term. However, if we used the exact same wording of simply "short
term" on both wiki articles, we would be missing the opportunity for an
important distinction: while one happily books a whole week in a hotel for
the sake of enjoying the leisure, services and attractions nearby, motels
by design have been more intended for transit traffic.

Of course I'm not talking about a hard split, as in all or nothing. Surely
a number of people on the budget will stay at a motel and commute from
there daily to their real destinations simply because of the cost savings,
but I'd say that the core business model of most motels relies (or have
historically relied) on transient use.

On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 11:17 AM Joseph Eisenberg <
joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The one concern I have is the new sentences that suggest that hotels are
> “typically not [booked for ] single night” while motels are usually booked
> for 1 night.
>
> I have certainly stayed for 2 to 3 nights at a “Motel 6” and other motels.
>
> And I have never encountered problems booking rooms for a single night at
> 3 and 3.5 star hotels for business trips.
>
> On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 6:34 PM bkil  wrote:
>
>> I've made a major rewording of this tag. Please review and don't hesitate
>> to comment or improve if I've mistakenly changed the meaning of the tag:
>>
>>
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag%3Atourism%3Dmotel&type=revision&diff=1755686&oldid=1561324
>>
>> Source: based on Wikipedia and recent mapping experience:
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/65702446#map=9/47.1412/18.6632
>>
>> It also looks like some have used the word motel for what should have
>> been pensions and guest houses around here, I'll also fix these later.
>> ___
>> Tagging mailing list
>> Tagging@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>>
> ___
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Re: [Tagging] Trailhead tagging

[Peter Elderson]

Find by name; POI-maps for target groups; list/select suitable starting
places for recreational routes; link to other data sources such as
wikipedia and operator's website; use in route-by-POI applications (e.g.
cycling node network routing).

For a particular trailhead, display and use information about transport
modes for nearby trails/routes. Tags: hiking=yes, canoe=yes, bicycle=yes,
MTB=yes etc, which allows selections/filters for mapping and listing.

In Nederland, OSM is the only database that has all the named ('official')
trailheads with reasonaby precise locations and details. Links to webpages
guide the users to lists of named routes and networks per trailhead.


Op zo 23 dec. 2018 om 11:30 schreef Marc Gemis :

> I think the parking place for the Precipice walk in Wales
> (https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/394294583) which also has a toilet
> and a picnic table would be considered a trailhead.
> There is also a nice sign
> https://xian.smugmug.com/Vacation/Wales-2018/i-hC7kWcK/A to tell you
> that you are at the right place to start the walk
> (http://dolgellau.wales/walks/precipice-walk.php)
>
> But given that all the facilities and paths are mapped, I wonder which
> additional information "trailhead" brings in this case.
>
> m.
>
> On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 2:31 PM Andy Townsend  wrote:
> >
> > Can you give a few examples of what trailheads are to you?  There's a
> clearly defined American concept, it isn't not really used much in British
> English.  Also what do you mean by "official" below - is there some kind of
> VVV list or similar?
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Andy
> >
> > On 21/12/2018 11:54, Peter Elderson wrote:
> >
> > I would like to revive the trailhead proposal,
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/trailhead
> >
> > After discussions in the Dutch user community, a list of all Dutch
> trailheads was compiled and systematically entered as nodes tagged
> highway=trailhead, name=, tourism=information,
> information=board or map. Many trailheads were already present in OSM,
> there we just did some additional tagging.
> >
> > In the US, trailheads are all maintained on OSM by a national operator.
> Japan has lots of trailheads, I don't know how they are maintained. In
> Europe, no systematical OSM-tagging appears to take place, except for the
> Dutch base.
> >
> > I think it deserves a push.
> >
> > Any thoughts on the matter?
> >
> > --
> > Vr gr Peter Elderson
> >
> > ___
> > Tagging mailing list
> > Tagging@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
> >
> > ___
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-- 
Vr gr Peter Elderson
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Re: [Tagging] Benefits of namespaces

[Mateusz Konieczny]

19 Dec 2018, 22:24 by ricoz@gmail.com:

> the OSM tag chain should be imho used only for very common things because 
> each member 
> of the chain will turn up as a "top level" tag in the database and taginfo. 
> If used extensively for attributes I would consider it polution of the 
> database.
>
There is nothing wing with using many
key names.

It may be a good idea to improve detection
of "top level" tags, but it is ok to use
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Re: [Tagging] request for review: OSM wiki rewording of tourism=motel based on Wikipedia

[LeTopographeFou]

Thank you for asking.

I go a lot to either motels or hotels and I also think that the 
difference between a motel and an hotel is mainly based on the design of 
the place, not on the number of nights, the proximity to tourist 
attractions or major highways or the cost of the land. Consequently I 
disagree with most of your criteria in the "How to tell apart from 
hotel" section and would reduce the list to objective criteria based on 
the design of the place, i.e an high interaction between the parking lot 
and the rooms (which often means that room access is made from the 
parking lot). Everything else may be your criteria but are not objective 
criteria IMHO.


Speaking of the difference with a guest house the main difference would 
be: Is the owner a company (i.e. an incorporated business) with 
employees (for check in, check out...) or is it a self-managed business? 
I think the question applies also to hotels.


Also, I suggest you to sum up eveything in one Wiki page listing all 
scenarios of sleeping places (camping, glamping, hotel, motel and guest 
house), keeping the actual one as how to use the tags (not how to choose 
the best one) instead of keeping 5 pages which will never (?) be aligned.


Yours,

LeTopographeFou

Le 23/12/2018 à 12:05, bkil a écrit :
Thank you for the insight, I'll try to figure out a better wording 
there. I'm also considering to improve the wording of the guest house 
and hotel articles in the future, though I'll need to find a way to do 
this without adding too much redundancy.


Well, what I wanted to convey in those sentences was that I'd expect 
the average booked nights per stay to be lower for a motel compared to 
a hotel.


Compared to renting a flat, both motel and hotel stays are considered 
short-term. However, if we used the exact same wording of simply 
"short term" on both wiki articles, we would be missing the 
opportunity for an important distinction: while one happily books a 
whole week in a hotel for the sake of enjoying the leisure, services 
and attractions nearby, motels by design have been more intended for 
transit traffic.


Of course I'm not talking about a hard split, as in all or nothing. 
Surely a number of people on the budget will stay at a motel and 
commute from there daily to their real destinations simply because of 
the cost savings, but I'd say that the core business model of most 
motels relies (or have historically relied) on transient use.


On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 11:17 AM Joseph Eisenberg 
mailto:joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com>> wrote:


The one concern I have is the new sentences that suggest that
hotels are “typically not [booked for ] single night” while motels
are usually booked for 1 night.

I have certainly stayed for 2 to 3 nights at a “Motel 6” and other
motels.

And I have never encountered problems booking rooms for a single
night at 3 and 3.5 star hotels for business trips.

On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 6:34 PM bkil http://bkil.hu>+a...@gmail.com > wrote:

I've made a major rewording of this tag. Please review and
don't hesitate to comment or improve if I've mistakenly
changed the meaning of the tag:


https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag%3Atourism%3Dmotel&type=revision&diff=1755686&oldid=1561324

Source: based on Wikipedia and recent mapping experience:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/65702446#map=9/47.1412/18.6632

It also looks like some have used the word motel for what
should have been pensions and guest houses around here, I'll
also fix these later.
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Re: [Tagging] request for review: OSM wiki rewording of tourism=motel based on Wikipedia

[bkil]

Hello Niklaas,

I have written my own arguments - I have not copied anything from
Wikipedia, I wrote every sentence of the text you see there myself. I've
actually came up with my own arguments first based on limited local
experience and only then double checked in Wikipedia whether I was way off.

As I edit both Wikipedia and the OSM Wiki, I can assure you that Wikipedia
has a high standards of quality. They require reliable sources for each
substantial claim being made and reviewing traffic is much higher compared
to the OSM Wiki. This is actually why I've made the responsible decision of
bringing it up here, as otherwise my edit would have been hidden for some
years to come.

I actually had a kind of *perception* regarding motels that I was missing
from the OSM Wiki. So I read through the respective Wikipedia article, and
it confirmed my hypothesis. However, I don't claim to be a motel or lodging
expert, so if you think that Wikipedia is wrong or missing major aspects of
the question, feel free to extend that as well, so we can all learn from it.

Thanks for caring, I agree that we need to be whiter than white

On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 3:10 PM St Niklaas wrote:

> Hi bkil,
>
> Since the Wikipedia is not as reliable as OSM, its IMHO not correct to use
> that source. So please dont copy out of it and write your own arguments to
> improve the OSM Wiki please.
>
> Greetz
>
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Re: [Tagging] request for review: OSM wiki rewording of tourism=motel based on Wikipedia

[Volker Schmidt]

I would go one step further, an say that there is essentially no functional
definition of the difference between a generic "motel" and a generic
"hotel". In fact many of the "hotel"s I have stayed in, mainly in the USA,
were "motel"s according to the criteria given in the proposal.
What one could argue about is, to put the distinction in the building key:
there is certainly a typical building design of many hotels and motels
(again mainly in the USA) that would match the building and layout criteria
listed in the proposal. But these refer to the building not to the
function. building=motel would be the correct description of a rather clear
building style. But this would most likely cause more confusion than
clarity as something as 75% of al hotels (again in the USA) would have to
be tagged: building=motel and tourism=hotel
Certainly trying to create a functional description of the difference
between hotel and motel, apart from the possibility to park in front of the
room, is rather difficult.
Look at the list of criteria with an critical eye, and most of them are not
so clear as one woul need them to be:

   1. Short term accommodation, particularly for people travelling by car:
   nearly all traveller today travel by motor_vehicle
   2. mostly serving single night - applies to many hotels as well
   3. convenient parking for motor cars at or close to the room-that is
   very often true for "hotels" as well
   4. thus the building itself is usually not of a high rise kind - most of
   the hoels I syayed in in the USA would not have more than two floors.
   5. built to an inexpensive design - depends entirely on the price level
   6. motel is usually positioned next to major roads and intersections -
   many chain hotels there as well
   7. usually outside residential areas and thus nearby tourism attractions
   may not be available. - again valid for many hotels as well
   8. Motels may sometimes but not always provide a number of additional
   guest services such as a restaurant, breakfast service or swimming pool -
   agan not a valid distinction.
   9. it is best accessed using a motor vehicle (placement uncorrelated
   from public transport)
   10. not many tourist attractions nearby  - valid for many hotels as well
   11. not many leisure services on premise other than food - valid for
   many hotels as well
   12. high vehicle traffic route/intersection nearby - valid for many
   hotels as well
   13. built on low cost land (nearby industrial centers, on the perimeter
   or outside of residential areas) - valid for many hotels as well
   14. at least as many parking places as rooms (or even better if more
   than the lodging capacity) - valid for many hotels as well
   15. cost saving building construction and interior design - valid for
   many hotels as well
   16. low rise building - valid for many hotels as well
   17. people check in ad-hoc without much planning ahead - difficult to
   verify and valid for many hotels as well
   18. people usually plan to stay here as few nights as possible - valid
   also for budget hotels, and not valid for upmarket motels
   19. cost is affordable to passer-by motorists who just need a little
   rest with few requirements - this is just a question of loction
   20. doors of many rentable rooms open to the parking lot instead of an
   internal corridor - tru also for many hotels
   21. some extra services are available on premise or nearby that are
   especially valuable to passer by motorists, like fuel or fluid refilling,
   truck & trailer parking and servicing, electronics or tire shop, - many
   motels I have used did not have these
   22. it is open all year round (there is less seasonality in usage
   compared to hotels, some guest houses even close down for part of the year)
   - I do not know about this one, this may be a candidate for distinction.
   23. it is sometimes also operating a camping site on premise or on a
   neighboring plot of land - as you say, this is "sometimes" the case, but
   again this not a decisive criterion.

There is another aspect: your service/quality level distinction by which
would mean that many lower-star hotels may get tagged in OSM as motels and
that my not be welcome by the operator of the place.
To me it seems the easiest to leave it as is, and I think in many cases its
just boils down to copying the type from the name plate.

Volker
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Re: [Tagging] request for review: OSM wiki rewording of tourism=motel based on Wikipedia

[bkil]

Unfortunately, if we only included the objective criteria based on a high
interaction between the parking lot and the rooms, then the number of
motels in Hungary for example would be near zero. As two of you have raised
concerns regarding this change, I've reverted it and moved the text to my
own space, see here if anyone would still like to comment:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bkil/Tag:tourism%3Dmotel

But then again, the current page is almost useless in its current form: if
we blanked the article and simply wrote "Tag an establishment as
tourism=motel if its name=* contains the word 'Motel'", we would be
providing at least as much help to mappers, if not more. This can't be
right.

At the same time, based on the proposed criteria, I could identify a large
number of them around here and the result correlated very well with whether
their nameplate contains the word "Motel" or not. Most points of my
criteria are nearly objective. You simply sum them up, and the higher score
you get, the more confident you get in your decision (a'la reCAPTCHA v3).

Again, as mentioned in the text, none of those listed were requirements,
this should only be understood as an implication. I.e., if we are talking
about a hotel, it is perfectly normal that some points will not apply.
Also, some points may be given more weight than others - so the so called
"objective" points could be weighed more.

On a separate note, a separate wiki page for comparing places to sleep
sounds reasonable, but based on your concerns, I'm not sure what meaningful
criteria we could list there other than one based on name=*.

Let's read the Wikipedia article together and then discuss the matter
further. I agree that as mentioned there as well, several providers use the
term "motel" as a synonym for a budget hotel or pension, but that's still
not the original meaning and this should not bias our perceptions. I've
linked a few dozen in the changeset of my opening question so we are on the
same page.

Here are my favorite ones from a mapping perspective:
http://www.momotel.hu/
http://www.lokomotivmotel.hu/en/photo_gallery.html

I really look forward to keeping this constructive - as my motive is still
to help others in making their mapping decisions when in doubt.

Wish you all happy holidays

On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 5:17 PM LeTopographeFou 
wrote:

> Thank you for asking.
>
> I go a lot to either motels or hotels and I also think that the difference
> between a motel and an hotel is mainly based on the design of the place,
> not on the number of nights, the proximity to tourist attractions or major
> highways or the cost of the land. Consequently I disagree with most of your
> criteria in the "How to tell apart from hotel" section and would reduce the
> list to objective criteria based on the design of the place, i.e an high
> interaction between the parking lot and the rooms (which often means that
> room access is made from the parking lot). Everything else may be your
> criteria but are not objective criteria IMHO.
>
> Speaking of the difference with a guest house the main difference would
> be: Is the owner a company (i.e. an incorporated business) with employees
> (for check in, check out...) or is it a self-managed business? I think the
> question applies also to hotels.
>
> Also, I suggest you to sum up eveything in one Wiki page listing all
> scenarios of sleeping places (camping, glamping, hotel, motel and guest
> house), keeping the actual one as how to use the tags (not how to choose
> the best one) instead of keeping 5 pages which will never (?) be aligned.
>
> Yours,
>
> LeTopographeFou
>
> Le 23/12/2018 à 12:05, bkil a écrit :
>
> Thank you for the insight, I'll try to figure out a better wording there.
> I'm also considering to improve the wording of the guest house and hotel
> articles in the future, though I'll need to find a way to do this without
> adding too much redundancy.
>
> Well, what I wanted to convey in those sentences was that I'd expect the
> average booked nights per stay to be lower for a motel compared to a hotel.
>
> Compared to renting a flat, both motel and hotel stays are considered
> short-term. However, if we used the exact same wording of simply "short
> term" on both wiki articles, we would be missing the opportunity for an
> important distinction: while one happily books a whole week in a hotel for
> the sake of enjoying the leisure, services and attractions nearby, motels
> by design have been more intended for transit traffic.
>
> Of course I'm not talking about a hard split, as in all or nothing. Surely
> a number of people on the budget will stay at a motel and commute from
> there daily to their real destinations simply because of the cost savings,
> but I'd say that the core business model of most motels relies (or have
> historically relied) on transient use.
>
> On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 11:17 AM Joseph Eisenberg <
> joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The one concern I have is the new sen

Re: [Tagging] request for review: OSM wiki rewording of tourism=motel based on Wikipedia

[Mateusz Konieczny]

23 Dec 2018, 21:37 by bkil.hu...@gmail.com:

> Let's read the Wikipedia article together and then discuss the matter further.
>
Note that there are also other resources.___
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Re: [Tagging] request for review: OSM wiki rewording of tourism=motel based on Wikipedia

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Thank you for bringing this up bkil, as it raises a problem that I have
noticed, but not discussed, myself.

At least in Australia, & possibly other places?, we have several
classifications of hotel &/or motel.

We have "International" hotels eg
https://www.hyatt.com/en-US/hotel/australia/hyatt-regency-sydney/sydrs,
which seems to be what the tourism=hotel page is based on
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:tourism%3Dhotel & could be summed
up as a very fancy (5 stars) & equally expensive!

There are also small stand-alone, non-chain, hotels, these days more
frequently found in country towns, rather than big cities:
https://www.google.com/maps/@-31.8232674,149.7206542,3a,32.7y,95.34h,94.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPX92KCqkIigGi8pmvu3PwQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656.
They are primarily there to serve drinks, so they meet the criteria of
amenity=pub https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dpub, but by
law, they must also serve food & provide accommodation. They are
(frequently) very basic (<2 stars?) but also cheaper than motels, & are
intended to provide overnight accommodation for travellers, but there is
nothing to stop you staying there for a week. Should these be tagged as
=hotel, or =pub? I must admit to committing the heinous crime of using both
tags together - mark the building as =hotel, while also using a =pub node
so that it renders as showing both accommodation & drinks - both of which
are important to know! Country hotels (especially in remoter areas) also
frequently allow camping out the back, so that would then add a =camp_site
node!

We then also have hotel-motels, which are a "pub" serving drinks & food,
but with a (usually) separate block of motel units
https://www.google.com/maps/@-28.2109504,152.8644547,3a,75y,298.07h,74.12t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sR5ZpUFj4bVgKIYlQTRjF8g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656.
The rooms usually fall between a basic hotel & a dedicated motel for both
quality & price. Should they be mapped as a =pub + =hotel, or +=motel?

You then also have motels, which, as you say, are primarily intended for
motorised travellers, may have a (frequently licensed ie may serve alcohol)
restaurant attached, but won't include a bar. A lot of the points that
Volker raised also apply though, in that they can be similar to larger
hotels. One thing in particular though is the length of stay. There are
really 2 types of motel - you have the motels that are located on the
highway & are more intended for overnight stops only, but you also have
motels in tourist destinations that are more commonly used for a week or
more.

Thanks

Graeme


On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 at 06:50, Mateusz Konieczny 
wrote:

> 23 Dec 2018, 21:37 by bkil.hu...@gmail.com:
>
> Let's read the Wikipedia article together and then discuss the matter
> further.
>
> Note that there are also other resources.
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Re: [Tagging] request for review: OSM wiki rewording of tourism=motel based on Wikipedia

[Allan Mustard]

Motel = MOtor hoTEL

The major difference between a 'hotel" and a "motel" originally was the
configuration of the building with respect to parking.  At a traditionally
designed motel, the cars are parked outside the units, which typically open
to the outdoors, not to a hallway, so that patrons of the motel may come
and go freely to their automobiles.  Length of stay is immaterial.

The first motels appeared on the Lincoln Highway in the 1920s, if memory
serves, and had little carports capable of accommodating a Model T
Ford-sized automobile next to a cabin (yes, the first motels featured
cabins, not rooms in a larger building).

Then along came Motel 6, so called because it charged $6 per night back in
the day (it featured coin-operated TVs and you paid extra for everything
but the bed, bath, and four walls).  Many Motel 6s had hallways, and that
changed the design, but they still catered to transients en route from
Point A to Point B.

Today the main difference seems to be the sign out front.  If a hostelry
calls itself a motel, it is a motel.  If it calls itself a hotel, it is a
hotel.  Local licensing authorities do not differentiate between them and
they are regulated identically, so far as I can tell.  I'd say the
definition should be based on what is written on the sign on the hostelry.
These are my two cents' worth based on 30+ years of travel, including a few
cross-country trips across America as well as extensive on-ground travel in
Mexico, Russia, and central Europe.

Cheers and Merry Christmas to all!
apm-wa


On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 4:33 AM bkil  wrote:

> I've made a major rewording of this tag. Please review and don't hesitate
> to comment or improve if I've mistakenly changed the meaning of the tag:
>
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag%3Atourism%3Dmotel&type=revision&diff=1755686&oldid=1561324
>
> Source: based on Wikipedia and recent mapping experience:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/65702446#map=9/47.1412/18.6632
>
> It also looks like some have used the word motel for what should have been
> pensions and guest houses around here, I'll also fix these later.
> ___
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>
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Re: [Tagging] request for review: OSM wiki rewording of tourism=motel based on Wikipedia

[Dave Swarthout]

"Today the main difference seems to be the sign out front.  If a hostelry
calls itself a motel, it is a motel.  If it calls itself a hotel, it is a
hotel.  Local licensing authorities do not differentiate between them and
they are regulated identically, so far as I can tell.  I'd say the
definition should be based on what is written on the sign on the hostelry."

+1

That's my main criterion for tagging an accommodation as a  motel. I agree
with Volker's points and Allan's view on this.

Happy Holidays

Dave

On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 6:27 AM Allan Mustard  wrote:

> Motel = MOtor hoTEL
>
> The major difference between a 'hotel" and a "motel" originally was the
> configuration of the building with respect to parking.  At a traditionally
> designed motel, the cars are parked outside the units, which typically open
> to the outdoors, not to a hallway, so that patrons of the motel may come
> and go freely to their automobiles.  Length of stay is immaterial.
>
> The first motels appeared on the Lincoln Highway in the 1920s, if memory
> serves, and had little carports capable of accommodating a Model T
> Ford-sized automobile next to a cabin (yes, the first motels featured
> cabins, not rooms in a larger building).
>
> Then along came Motel 6, so called because it charged $6 per night back in
> the day (it featured coin-operated TVs and you paid extra for everything
> but the bed, bath, and four walls).  Many Motel 6s had hallways, and that
> changed the design, but they still catered to transients en route from
> Point A to Point B.
>
> Today the main difference seems to be the sign out front.  If a hostelry
> calls itself a motel, it is a motel.  If it calls itself a hotel, it is a
> hotel.  Local licensing authorities do not differentiate between them and
> they are regulated identically, so far as I can tell.  I'd say the
> definition should be based on what is written on the sign on the hostelry.
> These are my two cents' worth based on 30+ years of travel, including a few
> cross-country trips across America as well as extensive on-ground travel in
> Mexico, Russia, and central Europe.
>
> Cheers and Merry Christmas to all!
> apm-wa
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 4:33 AM bkil  wrote:
>
>> I've made a major rewording of this tag. Please review and don't hesitate
>> to comment or improve if I've mistakenly changed the meaning of the tag:
>>
>>
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag%3Atourism%3Dmotel&type=revision&diff=1755686&oldid=1561324
>>
>> Source: based on Wikipedia and recent mapping experience:
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/65702446#map=9/47.1412/18.6632
>>
>> It also looks like some have used the word motel for what should have
>> been pensions and guest houses around here, I'll also fix these later.
>> ___
>> Tagging mailing list
>> Tagging@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>>
> ___
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>


-- 
Dave Swarthout
Homer, Alaska
Chiang Mai, Thailand
Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com
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Re: [Tagging] request for review: OSM wiki rewording of tourism=motel based on Wikipedia

[Joseph Eisenberg]

In the USA, we would also assume a motel offers free parking. Hotels may
charge extra for parking, especial if located downtown or next to an
airport.

Is this also the case in Europe and Australia?
On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 8:55 AM Dave Swarthout 
wrote:

> "Today the main difference seems to be the sign out front.  If a hostelry
> calls itself a motel, it is a motel.  If it calls itself a hotel, it is a
> hotel.  Local licensing authorities do not differentiate between them and
> they are regulated identically, so far as I can tell.  I'd say the
> definition should be based on what is written on the sign on the hostelry."
>
> +1
>
> That's my main criterion for tagging an accommodation as a  motel. I agree
> with Volker's points and Allan's view on this.
>
> Happy Holidays
>
> Dave
>
> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 6:27 AM Allan Mustard  wrote:
>
>> Motel = MOtor hoTEL
>>
>> The major difference between a 'hotel" and a "motel" originally was the
>> configuration of the building with respect to parking.  At a traditionally
>> designed motel, the cars are parked outside the units, which typically open
>> to the outdoors, not to a hallway, so that patrons of the motel may come
>> and go freely to their automobiles.  Length of stay is immaterial.
>>
>> The first motels appeared on the Lincoln Highway in the 1920s, if memory
>> serves, and had little carports capable of accommodating a Model T
>> Ford-sized automobile next to a cabin (yes, the first motels featured
>> cabins, not rooms in a larger building).
>>
>> Then along came Motel 6, so called because it charged $6 per night back
>> in the day (it featured coin-operated TVs and you paid extra for everything
>> but the bed, bath, and four walls).  Many Motel 6s had hallways, and that
>> changed the design, but they still catered to transients en route from
>> Point A to Point B.
>>
>> Today the main difference seems to be the sign out front.  If a hostelry
>> calls itself a motel, it is a motel.  If it calls itself a hotel, it is a
>> hotel.  Local licensing authorities do not differentiate between them and
>> they are regulated identically, so far as I can tell.  I'd say the
>> definition should be based on what is written on the sign on the hostelry.
>> These are my two cents' worth based on 30+ years of travel, including a few
>> cross-country trips across America as well as extensive on-ground travel in
>> Mexico, Russia, and central Europe.
>>
>> Cheers and Merry Christmas to all!
>> apm-wa
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 4:33 AM bkil  wrote:
>>
>>> I've made a major rewording of this tag. Please review and don't
>>> hesitate to comment or improve if I've mistakenly changed the meaning of
>>> the tag:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag%3Atourism%3Dmotel&type=revision&diff=1755686&oldid=1561324
>>>
>>> Source: based on Wikipedia and recent mapping experience:
>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/65702446#map=9/47.1412/18.6632
>>>
>>> It also looks like some have used the word motel for what should have
>>> been pensions and guest houses around here, I'll also fix these later.
>>> ___
>>> Tagging mailing list
>>> Tagging@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>>
>
>
> --
> Dave Swarthout
> Homer, Alaska
> Chiang Mai, Thailand
> Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com
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[Tagging] Road blocks?

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Hi

Council are currently doing a lot of storm water drainage works in our area
so various roads will be closed off for some time (several months).

Probably a silly question I know, but I'm not assuming :-), but will
dropping one of these
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Abarrier%3Djersey_barrier, each
side of the works, stop routers from directing traffic up that street?

Thanks

Graeme
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