Re: [Tagging] Golf wiki page

[Warin]

On 14/07/18 15:11, osm.tagg...@thorsten.engler.id.au wrote:


While page is not the best... you seem to misunderstand part of it.

The "level" reference doesn't have anything to do the level tag. Or any tag at 
all. It's just saying there are 3 levels of detail at which a golf course can be mapped.


In which case a different word can be used .. like 'order'.



As for the "How short is the grass" section, while maybe not expressed in the 
best way, that looks generally correct to me.


Why not use height? already exists and is understandable by all.



golf=green or golf=tee_area has the shortest grass
nobody seems to map golf=fringe or golf=apron, so these should probably go
golf=fairway is slightly longer than the green, but still well maintained
golf=mown is hardly used, can probably go
golf=rough is the longer grass outside the fairway, it generally is still 
mowed, but noticeable longer
natural=scrub is for areas that are generally not longer mowed, so you get very 
long grass, some shrubs, ...
natural=wood, well, there are trees here
landuse=forest has no meaningful difference to natural=wood in this context and 
can go.

Generally speaking, you have areas for green, tee and fairway (green and tee 
are NOT inside the fairway), surrounded by rough, surrounded by scrub and/or 
wood.


Grooming is used for piste and may possibly be applied here.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:piste:grooming

Comment: not all golf courses have grass...
http://www.cooberpedygolfclub.com.au/
where "/greens are black and the fairways are white" /So height of the grass 
cannot be used everywhere.//


-Original Message-
From: Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, 14 July 2018 13:44
To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools

Subject: [Tagging] Golf wiki page

Hi

I have just come across a new mapper trying to map a golf course.
Fine, but they can do with some guidance.
Looking around for such guidance I came across this wiki page,
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/HOWTO_map_a_golf_course_2013

Looks to me .. well not the best.
The idea that the level tag should be used in that way .. umm as a
how to ? Err I'd vote no.
Remember this is for new people too.

The idea that the height of the grass should be tagged in that way ??
Again .. no.

The page does not link to the golf wiki pages.

I think it can do with a major rewrite, or should I just make a new
page ? HOWTO_map_a_golf_course_v2 ?? :) Once done and people make
their comments/changes then the original page can have a redirection
to the newer page?
I think a new page would probably be better as a fresh approach can
be had.

Thoughts?


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Re: [Tagging] Golf wiki page

[osm.tagging]

From: Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> 
Sent: Saturday, 14 July 2018 17:07
To: tagging@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Tagging] Golf wiki page

 

On 14/07/18 15:11, osm.tagg...@thorsten.engler.id.au 
  wrote:

While page is not the best... you seem to misunderstand part of it.
 
The "level" reference doesn't have anything to do the level tag. Or any tag at 
all. It's just saying there are 3 levels of detail at which a golf course can 
be mapped.

In which case a different word can be used .. like 'order'. 
 
I didn’t write the page. I’m just saying you misinterpreted the use of the word 
“level”. The term “level of detail” is pretty common and means exactly what 
whoever authored that page is talking about.

 
As for the "How short is the grass" section, while maybe not expressed in the 
best way, that looks generally correct to me.

Why not use height? already exists and is understandable by all. 

 
 
golf=green or golf=tee_area has the shortest grass
nobody seems to map golf=fringe or golf=apron, so these should probably go
golf=fairway is slightly longer than the green, but still well maintained
golf=mown is hardly used, can probably go
golf=rough is the longer grass outside the fairway, it generally is still 
mowed, but noticeable longer
natural=scrub is for areas that are generally not longer mowed, so you get very 
long grass, some shrubs, ...
natural=wood, well, there are trees here
landuse=forest has no meaningful difference to natural=wood in this context and 
can go.
 
Generally speaking, you have areas for green, tee and fairway (green and tee 
are NOT inside the fairway), surrounded by rough, surrounded by scrub and/or 
wood.
 

Grooming is used for piste and may possibly be applied here.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:piste:grooming
 
Comment: not all golf courses have grass...  
http://www.cooberpedygolfclub.com.au/
where "greens are black and the fairways are white"
So height of the grass cannot be used everywhere. 
 
Again, it’s not really about the “height of the grass”. Nobody cares about 
recording the “height of grass”. 
 
You have different areas with different meanings. Green and tee area. Fairway. 
Rough. (And yes, others, like bunkers [usually sand], and [usually water] 
hazards.) It’s just that for the probably 99% of golf courses that use grass, 
there is a direct correlation between these areas and the length of the grass. 
 
So for non-golfers (which includes me) the description of “If it’s very short 
and well maintained, it’s going to be a green or tee. If It’s slightly longer 
but still clearly mowed and maintained often, it’s a fairway. If it’s growing 
even longer, but still maintained grass, it’s rough. (And everything else is 
likely out of bounds)” Is probably easiest to understand.
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Re: [Tagging] Golf wiki page

[Yves]

You should pay attention to the message format, the last one is unreadable. 

Le 14 juillet 2018 10:57:07 GMT+02:00, osm.tagg...@thorsten.engler.id.au a 
écrit :
>From: Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> 
>Sent: Saturday, 14 July 2018 17:07
>To: tagging@openstreetmap.org
>Subject: Re: [Tagging] Golf wiki page
>
> 
>
>On 14/07/18 15:11, osm.tagg...@thorsten.engler.id.au
>  wrote:
>
>While page is not the best... you seem to misunderstand part of it.
> 
>The "level" reference doesn't have anything to do the level tag. Or any
>tag at all. It's just saying there are 3 levels of detail at which a
>golf course can be mapped.
>
>In which case a different word can be used .. like 'order'. 
> 
>I didn’t write the page. I’m just saying you misinterpreted the use of
>the word “level”. The term “level of detail” is pretty common and means
>exactly what whoever authored that page is talking about.
>
> 
>As for the "How short is the grass" section, while maybe not expressed
>in the best way, that looks generally correct to me.
>
>Why not use height? already exists and is understandable by all. 
>
> 
> 
>golf=green or golf=tee_area has the shortest grass
>nobody seems to map golf=fringe or golf=apron, so these should probably
>go
>golf=fairway is slightly longer than the green, but still well
>maintained
>golf=mown is hardly used, can probably go
>golf=rough is the longer grass outside the fairway, it generally is
>still mowed, but noticeable longer
>natural=scrub is for areas that are generally not longer mowed, so you
>get very long grass, some shrubs, ...
>natural=wood, well, there are trees here
>landuse=forest has no meaningful difference to natural=wood in this
>context and can go.
> 
>Generally speaking, you have areas for green, tee and fairway (green
>and tee are NOT inside the fairway), surrounded by rough, surrounded by
>scrub and/or wood.
> 
>
>Grooming is used for piste and may possibly be applied here.
>https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:piste:grooming
> 
>Comment: not all golf courses have grass...  
>http://www.cooberpedygolfclub.com.au/
>where "greens are black and the fairways are white"
>So height of the grass cannot be used everywhere. 
> 
>Again, it’s not really about the “height of the grass”. Nobody cares
>about recording the “height of grass”. 
> 
>You have different areas with different meanings. Green and tee area.
>Fairway. Rough. (And yes, others, like bunkers [usually sand], and
>[usually water] hazards.) It’s just that for the probably 99% of golf
>courses that use grass, there is a direct correlation between these
>areas and the length of the grass. 
> 
>So for non-golfers (which includes me) the description of “If it’s very
>short and well maintained, it’s going to be a green or tee. If It’s
>slightly longer but still clearly mowed and maintained often, it’s a
>fairway. If it’s growing even longer, but still maintained grass, it’s
>rough. (And everything else is likely out of bounds)” Is probably
>easiest to understand.
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Re: [Tagging] Golf wiki page

[osm.tagging]

Looks fine to me: 
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tks7yumfju0wz6q/1531564818315.jpg?dl=0

From: Yves  
Sent: Saturday, 14 July 2018 20:15
To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools 
Subject: Re: [Tagging] Golf wiki page

You should pay attention to the message format, the last one is unreadable. 



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Re: [Tagging] landcover=asphalt ; landuse=highway

[Mateusz Konieczny]

13. Lipiec 2018 15:36 od osm...@leo.gaspard.io :


> officially-defined tags




There is no thing like this in OSM 

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Re: [Tagging] Golf wiki page

[Mateusz Konieczny]

14. Lipiec 2018 05:43 od 61sundow...@gmail.com :


> I think it can do with a major rewrite, or
> should I just make a new page ? HOWTO_map_a_golf_course_v2 ?? :)
> Once done and people make their comments/changes then the original page can 
> have a redirection to the newer page?
> I think a new page would probably be better as a fresh approach can be had.
>




O would move useful content to proper pages, 


delete duplicated content, delete useless or wrong parts.




In the end turn into a redirect to 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:leisure%3Dgolf_course 


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Re: [Tagging] landcover=asphalt ; landuse=highway

[Mateusz Konieczny]

Yes, https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/landuse%3Dhighway 


13. Lipiec 2018 15:43 od bhou...@gmail.com :


> I would think `landuse=highway` would work kind of like `landuse=railway`, 
> used to map a right of way corridor, not the actual asphalt surface.
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[Tagging] Tagging shared zones?

[Tobias Zwick]

Hello,

Should ... shared zones (AU, NZ), also known as...
- Begegnungszone (CH, AT)[1]
- Zone de rencontre (BE, FR)[2]
- Zona de coexistência (PT)
... be tagged specifically in OpenStreetMap?

And if yes, with what?

Shared zones are similar to living streets, in that they are both
implementations of the concept of shared space[3], only that shared
zones are something I would call "living street light". What these
implementations I mentioned above all have in common are:
- pedestrians have right of way or at least equal rights to other
  road users
- max speed is *not* walking speed, but signposted (usually 10-20 km/h)

Greetings
Tobias

[1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begegnungszone
[2] https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_de_rencontre
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_space

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Re: [Tagging] landcover=asphalt ; landuse=highway

[Ralph Aytoun]

This is a part of landuse that is missing on Openstreetmap. There is a term 
used for this in road planning. It is called a “road reserve” which includes 
all parts of the road components. The surfaced carriageways, central 
reservations, hard and soft shoulders, sidewalks (pavements), buffer zones, 
verges, embankments, sound barriers.  Any work that needs to be carried out 
within the area of the reserve requires permission from the government or local 
authority that is responsible for that section of the road reserve.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Mateusz Konieczny
Sent: 14 July 2018 12:02
To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
Subject: Re: [Tagging] landcover=asphalt ; landuse=highway

Yes, https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/landuse%3Dhighway

13. Lipiec 2018 15:43 od bhou...@gmail.com:
I would think `landuse=highway` would work kind of like `landuse=railway`, used 
to map a right of way corridor, not the actual asphalt surface.

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Re: [Tagging] Tagging shared zones?

[Mateusz Konieczny]

14. Lipiec 2018 16:36 od o...@westnordost.de :


> - pedestrians have right of way or at least equal rights to other
>   road users
> - max speed is *not* walking speed, but signposted (usually 10-20 km/h)




For me it is still living street. At least "strefa zamieszkania" (PL) has rules 
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Re: [Tagging] Tagging shared zones?

[Andrew Harvey]

While I agree they match the description of highway=living_street sometimes
these also match highway=service (service=alley) so it can be hard to
decide which tag to use...

Either way I tag them with maxspeed=10 (lower speed limit),
foot=designated, bicycle=designated, motor_vehicle=designated since that's
what the signage indicates.

On Sun., 15 Jul. 2018, 12:36 am Tobias Zwick,  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Should ... shared zones (AU, NZ), also known as...
> - Begegnungszone (CH, AT)[1]
> - Zone de rencontre (BE, FR)[2]
> - Zona de coexistência (PT)
> ... be tagged specifically in OpenStreetMap?
>
> And if yes, with what?
>
> Shared zones are similar to living streets, in that they are both
> implementations of the concept of shared space[3], only that shared
> zones are something I would call "living street light". What these
> implementations I mentioned above all have in common are:
> - pedestrians have right of way or at least equal rights to other
>   road users
> - max speed is *not* walking speed, but signposted (usually 10-20 km/h)
>
> Greetings
> Tobias
>
> [1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begegnungszone
> [2] https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_de_rencontre
> [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_space
>
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