[Tagging] tower types, cooling towers etc.
I just noticed that the tag man_made=cooling_tower is deprecated. The template says the reason is on the deprecated features list, but actually there is no reasoning there. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dcooling_tower The suggested alternative tagging with man_made=tower is _contradicting_ the tower definition and frankly it doesn't seem reasonable to tag things as different as towers (watchtowers, defensive towers, communication towers, ...) and "large chimneys" / "heatexchangers" with the same main tag. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dtower Looking at usage statistics, both variants are growing. There are also other values for tower:type that contradict the man_made=tower definition (or have at least illustrative imagery attached that doesn't fit), namely the values - "siren" (not discussed or voted AFAIK, low usage), - monitoring (very low usage, is also competing with monitoring_station), - communication (what is the difference to "man_made=communication_tower"? The image is not a tower according to OSM definition). - multifunctional (WTF?), lowest imaginable usage - radar - climbing - diving - lightning_protection Why would we want to put all this completely different things into the same main tag, are there good arguments? May I ask for a little bit more of wiki editing discipline? For example the tag tower:type=multifunctional has 6 uses and never had more. I don't recall it being discussed on this list. Why would someone add it there? Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Fire Hydrant Extensions (part 2))
Moritz, did you contact individually people who opposed the previous proposal? Yes, I left a comment on every discussion page. It seems that at least some of them commented on the new proposal. One feedback I got via mail was that we should split hydrants and suction_points, as they are in Germany different things ;) But apart from that we can go for voting. Moritz ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Fire Hydrant Extensions (part 2)
> It seems that at least some of them commented on the new proposal. > One feedback I got via mail was that we should split hydrants and > suction_points, as they are in Germany different things ;) I answered every comment in discussion page. The aim now is to keep the focus on new tags. About the split, if someone wants to go in that direction, he can start a new proposal focused on that point. I think that we all agree, don't we? > But apart from that we can go for voting. If no more comments come up, I would like to start voting this weekend. Alberto --- Questa e-mail è stata controllata per individuare virus con Avast antivirus. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Fire Hydrant Extensions (part 2)
Am 2017-11-09 18:12, schrieb Viking: About the split, if someone wants to go in that direction, he can start a new proposal focused on that point. I think that we all agree, don't we? You are right, I think there is still the part 3 of the proposal and afterwards we can think about a new one. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Fire Hydrant Extensions (part 2)
Nakaner just commented on his user page So, wie es aussieht, ist es jetzt deutlich besser. Die verbleibenden Tagänderungen sind in meinen Augen ausreichend gut begründet Which translates to How it looks like now is way better. The remaining changes of tags are to my mind sufficiently explained. So I think, we are good to go. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] winter tyres
On 1.11.2017 11:50, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: Hi, sorry for the long pause. Ok, following Warin's suggestion: > https://www.sicurauto.it/upload/news_/8684/img/2038-cartelli sperimentali-pneumatici-invernali.png motor_vehicle:conditional=winter_equipment @ (Nov 15-Apr 15) > http://www.rmastri.it/plugins/image_gallery/images/gallery/8194ca9513d72ed09adb11f0f3af.jpg motor_vehicle:conditional=yes @ winter_equipment or motor_vehicle:conditional=winter_equipment @ winter (Not sure if the sign implies all the time or within a time span defined by law.) > https://www.avd.de/fileadmin/content/Bilder/Unterseiten/Recht/Content/Verkehrszeichen-268.png motor_vehicle:conditional=yes @ snow_chains motor_vehicle:conditional=snow_chains @ winter (Again, see above.) My original idea was simply: winter_equipment=Nov 15-Apr 15 and winter_equipment=yes for the first two signs, respectively. Regards, -- Michal Fabík ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] [Proposal] Boundary=marker
henkevdb writes: > Proposal to change > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:historic%3Dboundary_stone into > Boundary=marker and if it is historic, simply add historic=yes and/or > add marker as value on this wikipage -> > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:boundary Some issues to consider: how does boundary=marker relate to man_made=survey_point what does historic mean? That is is no longer in use, or that it is old? (My town has boundary stones from the 1800s, but they are still legally valid, so I would not tag them as historic.) signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] tower types, cooling towers etc.
@Martin, I'm not sure of the meaning of your question. I am aware of the use of man_made=water_tower for example and think it might be better to use the top level tag man_made=tower followed by: tower:type=water_storage (or water_tower) But it seems the two methods are already in use, namely, using tower:type for some types of towers while others have a dedicated main tag like the water_tower example. Is that what you're referring to? On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 4:35 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > I just noticed that the tag > man_made=cooling_tower is deprecated. The template says the reason is on > the deprecated features list, but actually there is no reasoning there. > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dcooling_tower > > The suggested alternative tagging with man_made=tower is _contradicting_ > the tower definition and frankly it doesn't seem reasonable to tag things > as different as towers (watchtowers, defensive towers, communication > towers, ...) and "large chimneys" / "heatexchangers" with the same main tag. > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dtower > > Looking at usage statistics, both variants are growing. > > There are also other values for tower:type that contradict the > man_made=tower definition (or have at least illustrative imagery attached > that doesn't fit), namely the values > > - "siren" (not discussed or voted AFAIK, low usage), > > - monitoring (very low usage, is also competing with monitoring_station), > > - communication (what is the difference to "man_made=communication_tower"? > The image is not a tower according to OSM definition). > > - multifunctional (WTF?), lowest imaginable usage > > - radar > > - climbing > > - diving > > - lightning_protection > > > Why would we want to put all this completely different things into the > same main tag, are there good arguments? May I ask for a little bit more of > wiki editing discipline? For example the tag tower:type=multifunctional has > 6 uses and never had more. I don't recall it being discussed on this list. > Why would someone add it there? > > Cheers, > Martin > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > -- Dave Swarthout Homer, Alaska Chiang Mai, Thailand Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] tower types, cooling towers etc.
On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 4:35 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > I just noticed that the tagman_made=cooling_tower is deprecated. > The template says the reason is on the deprecated features list, but actually > there is no reasoning there. +1. People are moving forward too fast without documenting their intermediate steps, leaving no space for proper result checking, or proper reasoning from a third party. This opens a gate for errors. That said, I do not oppose the effort around classifying /man_made/ towers with the tower:type tag in general. E.g. have a look at [1]. It summons different tower types just as tower:type does, but maybe not to the same extent. > There are also other values for tower:type that contradict the man_made=tower > definition. This should be fixed, either way is possible, adjusting the def. or the values. According to [1] there are clear definitions to differentiate towers from masts. These defintions vary with the ones used in OSM wiki, however. But [1] is not the holy grail either. E.g. it tries to distinguish towers from buildings by assuming that all buildings must be habitable. This is a dead end imho: - there are habitable towers (e.g. eiffel tower had/has an apartment) - towers are (informally) a subclass of buildings if other defs apply, see [2] - towers, bridges and buildings are man_made /structures/, if a /structure/ is defined as the result of building activity by man Last bulletin is /not/ a pledge to introduce man_made=structure structure=(tower, bridge, house, ..) however. It seems most if not all objects tagged with man_made are structures (?). Hence /structure/ value would not serve well the purpose of a value: to discriminate objects into classes. It is rather synonym to /man_made/, the key itself or how it is used within OSM. The key /man_made/ should be stressed, i.e. natural towers should not be tagged using man_made=tower. Greetings Christian [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Building#Definitions ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
