Re: [Tagging] Names containing abbreviations that are the official name

2017-07-26 Thread Paul Johnson 
On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 3:24 PM, Clifford Snow 
wrote:

> Saint Paul - but that certainly is an exception.
>
> I was using a garmin gps device to navigate about 4 years ago. As I
> entered Mount Vernon, WA the voice called it Mountain Vernon.
>
> Albert Pundt suggestion to use offical_name or name_official would help.
> But keeping with OSM ground truth, we could use the official name, for
> example name='St. Louis' and name_full='Saint Louis' for pronunciation.
>

Is expanding abbreviations really inconsistent with the ground truth?
Kinda thought this was long since settled as "no, it is not inconsistent,
and is preferable to using abbreviations
"
and perhaps the abbreviation should be in "short_name" instead.
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Re: [Tagging] Names containing abbreviations that are the official name

2017-07-26 Thread althio 
English mappers have argued for "St" as different to "Saint", see
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names#Abbreviation_.28don.27t_do_it.29
https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/19609/saint-or-st-is-there-an-official-osm-policy

I don't know how North Americans feel about "St." vs. "Saint" but that
may not be the same case as England.

Back to the original post:
"Mt." really looks like an abbreviation and name would
appear/read/sound correct when spelled in full with "Mount".
So it would be for me:
name=Mount Lebanon
official_name=Mt. Lebanon
short_name, alt_name if need for other variations

My 2 cents

-- althio



On 26 July 2017 at 12:18, Paul Johnson  wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 3:24 PM, Clifford Snow 
> wrote:
>>
>> Saint Paul - but that certainly is an exception.
>>
>> I was using a garmin gps device to navigate about 4 years ago. As I
>> entered Mount Vernon, WA the voice called it Mountain Vernon.
>>
>> Albert Pundt suggestion to use offical_name or name_official would help.
>> But keeping with OSM ground truth, we could use the official name, for
>> example name='St. Louis' and name_full='Saint Louis' for pronunciation.
>
>
> Is expanding abbreviations really inconsistent with the ground truth?  Kinda
> thought this was long since settled as "no, it is not inconsistent, and is
> preferable to using abbreviations" and perhaps the abbreviation should be in
> "short_name" instead.
>
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>

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Re: [Tagging] Names containing abbreviations that are the official name

2017-07-26 Thread tomoya muramoto 
I think the expanded name is not friendly for foreigners.

For example, assume you are in Japan, and your navigation app shows "Turn
left at '杉小学校前'".
After a few minutes you will see a guide sign '杉小前'.

Maybe you would wonder you should turn here or not.

So I think `name` should be 'labeled text string as it is'. Ground truth.

'杉小学校前': expanded name
'杉小前': labeled name

muramoto
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Re: [Tagging] Names containing abbreviations that are the official name

2017-07-26 Thread Warin 

On 26-Jul-17 09:19 PM, tomoya muramoto wrote:

I think the expanded name is not friendly for foreigners.

For example, assume you are in Japan, and your navigation app shows 
"Turn left at '杉小学校前'".

After a few minutes you will see a guide sign '杉小前'.

Maybe you would wonder you should turn here or not.

So I think `name` should be 'labeled text string as it is'. Ground truth.

'杉小学校前': expanded name
'杉小前': labeled name




Possibly the name key should be more explanatory as to its use?

name:spoken='杉小学校前'
name:sign='杉小前'

At the moment name= is not self explanatory as to its use nor are other 
name keys.



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[Tagging]

2017-07-26 Thread 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson 
Which is correct?





Or must one always look up the English version in
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:lamp_mount

Also what if there is no exact English equivalent?

The lamp is in Taiwan.

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Re: [Tagging]

2017-07-26 Thread Shawn K. Quinn 
On 07/26/2017 08:12 PM, 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson wrote:
> Which is correct?
> 
> 
> 
> 

E. None of the above



if Google Translate got the translation right ("wall type").

-- 
Shawn K. Quinn 
http://www.rantroulette.com
http://www.skqrecordquest.com

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Re: [Tagging]

2017-07-26 Thread 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson 
> "SKQ" == Shawn K Quinn  writes:
SKQ> 

Yes but what if instead of 附壁式 it is a local type for which no
English translation exists?

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Re: [Tagging]

2017-07-26 Thread Shawn K. Quinn 
On 07/26/2017 10:10 PM, 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson wrote:
> Yes but what if instead of 附壁式 it is a local type for which no
> English translation exists?

We either come up with the best English translation we can, or use some
(transliterated, in this case) variant of the local word.

-- 
Shawn K. Quinn 
http://www.rantroulette.com
http://www.skqrecordquest.com

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[Tagging] Recommendation for building tags

2017-07-26 Thread Vozniuk Taras 
Hi guys,

We are developing the app, where users can add tags to buildings via predefined 
presets, but we are not sure about some tags. Can you guys recommend the proper 
way of tagging the following:

1. Whether the building is permanent or not.
Users select from the following preset {permanent, semi-permanent, 
non-permanent} . Cannot really find an appropriate tag for this.

2. If building contains a basement.
Should we use basement={yes, no}, or building:basement={yes, no}

3. Shape of the building.
We need to tag the shape of building polygon. Possible selection from 
{t-shaped, l-shaped, multi-projected, box, rectangular}. 
I have’t found any information regarding tagging building shape, I guess it is 
not a common practice, right? We need to know the shape of the building that 
affects the resistance of the structure to natural disasters like earthquake or 
flood.
Any recommendations for the appropriate tag and selection here?

4. Slope of the site where building is located.
Selection from {flat, moderate, steep}. Can we use incline tag for this?

Thanks a lot!

Best,
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Re: [Tagging] Recommendation for building tags

2017-07-26 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer 


sent from a phone

> On 27. Jul 2017, at 07:14, Vozniuk Taras  wrote:
> 
> 1. Whether the building is permanent or not.
> Users select from the following preset {permanent, semi-permanent, 
> non-permanent} . Cannot really find an appropriate tag for this.
> 


what are your definitions for semipermanent and non-permanent?



> 2. If building contains a basement.
> Should we use basement={yes, no}, or building:basement={yes, no}


the established tags are quantifying the number of levels:

building_levels={overground levels}
building_levels:underground=*
...:roof=*


> 
> 3. Shape of the building.
> We need to tag the shape of building polygon. Possible selection from 
> {t-shaped, l-shaped, multi-projected, box, rectangular}. 
> I have’t found any information regarding tagging building shape, I guess it 
> is not a common practice, right? We need to know the shape of the building 
> that affects the resistance of the structure to natural disasters like 
> earthquake or flood.
> Any recommendations for the appropriate tag and selection here?


we map the shape (maximum of all horizontal sections of all levels) in geometry 
(way), and if needed also the shape of parts (building:part=*). There's also a 
tag roof:shape



> 
> 4. Slope of the site where building is located.
> Selection from {flat, moderate, steep}. Can we use incline tag for this?


we don't map it. Where would you attach this tag to?


cheers,
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Re: [Tagging] Recommendation for building tags

2017-07-26 Thread Vozniuk Taras 
Hi Martin,

Thanks for the response.

1. Whether the building is permanent or not.

> what are your definitions for semipermanent and non-permanent?

So non-permanent is a building structure constructed for a defined short period 
of time. Like Circus tent for example. It stays there for a defined 1 month. 
I can also imagine temporary warehouses / tents during the harvest period at 
countryside-marketplaces or movable markets, though I cannot really give a good 
real-life example.
Something like this: https://goo.gl/images/nMf3gQ 

Semi-permanent are constructions that are technically non-permanent but stay 
there for an indefinite amount of time. Something like we have a trailer house 
that just stays there and it’s not intended to be moved anytime in future.

This differentiation is confusing however it is important to make this 
differentiation - semi-permanent buildings usually have a stronger strategic 
value then non-permanent. In case of evacuation - non-permanent structures can 
be easily deconstructed or abandoned, but semi-permanent might not. And the 
inhabitants might be less resistant to get evacuated if they inhabit 
semi-permenent structure comparing to permanent building. 

2. Whether the building is permanent or not.

So do you think it a good idea to map existence of basement of the building by 
building_levels:underground = yes

3. Shape of the building

> we map the shape (maximum of all horizontal sections of all levels) in 
> geometry (way)

We need this for statistic purposes. To make it human-readable, the proposal 
was to have values like {box, rectangular, t-shaped, l-shaped}. 
Ideally a classifier can be trained to derive these values from raw way 
geometry, but we still need to come up with reasonable common building shapes 
that are acceptable to be included in OSM data. 
Any suggestions?

4. Slope of the site where building is located.

> we don't map it. Where would you attach this tag to?

Attached to building. The damage form disasters like flood will be 
highly-related to this surface slope.

Again thanks a lot for your feedback.

Best,
Taras.

> On 27 Jul 2017, at 1:34 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> sent from a phone
> 
> On 27. Jul 2017, at 07:14, Vozniuk Taras  > wrote:
> 
>> 1. Whether the building is permanent or not.
>> Users select from the following preset {permanent, semi-permanent, 
>> non-permanent} . Cannot really find an appropriate tag for this.
>> 
> 
> 
> what are your definitions for semipermanent and non-permanent?
> 
> 
> 
>> 2. If building contains a basement.
>> Should we use basement={yes, no}, or building:basement={yes, no}
> 
> 
> the established tags are quantifying the number of levels:
> 
> building_levels={overground levels}
> building_levels:underground=*
> ...:roof=*
> 
> 
>> 
>> 3. Shape of the building.
>> We need to tag the shape of building polygon. Possible selection from 
>> {t-shaped, l-shaped, multi-projected, box, rectangular}. 
>> I have’t found any information regarding tagging building shape, I guess it 
>> is not a common practice, right? We need to know the shape of the building 
>> that affects the resistance of the structure to natural disasters like 
>> earthquake or flood.
>> Any recommendations for the appropriate tag and selection here?
> 
> 
> we map the shape (maximum of all horizontal sections of all levels) in 
> geometry (way), and if needed also the shape of parts (building:part=*). 
> There's also a tag roof:shape
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> 4. Slope of the site where building is located.
>> Selection from {flat, moderate, steep}. Can we use incline tag for this?
> 
> 
> we don't map it. Where would you attach this tag to?
> 
> 
> cheers,
> Martin 
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