Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations

[Warin]

On 10/06/2015 4:44 PM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote:

Here's a writeup on a "Duck" tag for this feature:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Device_Charging_Station


The name works well for the intended use.

However it limits the use of the tag.

For example .. a tourist might be able to charge their phone/etc in a 
cafe/pub when they stop for a drink/meal. It may not be a 'designated 
device charging station' but the hardware is there.
Normally you would ask before use .. but it is handy to know so a 
selection could be made before entry and asking. Use of the access key 
could use used to signify the asking condition.


Thus I think the name needs to be more universal, so that it may be used 
for any power socket, preferably ones that are available for use (not 
access=private! :-) ).


The value 'power_socket' might suit?

The keys 'amenity' or 'man_made' are applicable ...


https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3539479319/history

I strongly feel that amenity=charging_station is fully entrenched as a 
vehicle charging station, and thus a new tag is needed.
Using 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:power_supply#Tag_values_for_type_of_sockets 
might work well, as long

as the top level tag is new.



+1

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Re: [Tagging] "Pet Relief Areas"

[johnw]

> 
> 
>  tie-off points for leashes to leave a dog unattended for a short time


Today I was out biking and I found one of the hooks for dog leashes. The name 
used on the pole was “lead hook”.

It was for leaving your dog outside a convenience store while you went in to 
get a drink on your dog walk. 



They are made by a company called sunpole, and I have been seeing them 
installed at a lot of newer buildings all over my region lately, from stores to 
service areas on the tollway.

some are wall mounted, others on prefab poles, like in the picture.

searching the product name lead to a lot of links in Japanese ( “sunpole lead 
hook” ) .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzQQ9cRsfxs 
 (some video from youtube).

http://thumbnail.image.rakuten.co.jp/@0_mall/ouchimawari/cabinet/sunpole/lh_200_300.jpg?_ex=300x300&s=2&r=1
 

  dog parking icon!

“lead_hook" is a really great tag name, as is “leash_anchor”. 

Javbw


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Re: [Tagging] "Pet Relief Areas"

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2015-06-10 10:03 GMT+02:00 johnw :

>
> They are made by a company called sunpole, and I have been seeing them
> installed at a lot of newer buildings all over my region lately, from
> stores to service areas on the tollway.
>
> some are wall mounted, others on prefab poles, like in the picture.
>
> searching the product name lead to a lot of links in Japanese ( “sunpole
> lead hook” ) .
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzQQ9cRsfxs (some video from youtube).
>
>
> http://thumbnail.image.rakuten.co.jp/@0_mall/ouchimawari/cabinet/sunpole/lh_200_300.jpg?_ex=300x300&s=2&r=1
> dog parking icon!
>
> “lead_hook" is a really great tag name, as is “leash_anchor”.
>



yes, these are common in front of German convenience stores as well, often
called "dog parking"
https://www.absperrtechnik24.de/Hundeparkplatz+Clim.htm
https://www.flickr.com/photos/30845644@N04/3863782817
http://www.bilderbuch-koeln.de/bilder/k%C3%B6ln_neustadt_nord_hundeparkplatz_warten_aufs_herrchen_hund_parkplatz_tiere_c4c2128952_978x1304xin.jpeg

I prefer leash_anchor over lead_hook because it is more generic and easier
to understand.

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] "Pet Relief Areas"

[phil]

On Wed Jun 10 09:32:26 2015 GMT+0100, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> 
> I prefer leash_anchor over lead_hook because it is more generic and easier
> to understand.
> 
Leash is AE, lead is BE.

Phil (trigpoint)


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Re: [Tagging] How to tag a Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (US:DMV)

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

> Am 10.06.2015 um 01:51 schrieb John Willis :
> 
> The name for them is revenue_stamp
> 
> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revenue_stamp
> 



this article names tax stamp and fiscal stamp as synonyms in the first sentence 



> 
> It is also proof that a fee has been paid (you have the stamp!) so they are 
> sometimes affixed to non-paperwork objects (alcohol bottles,etc) to prove 
> that the proper payment has been made to the proper agency regulating the 
> good before sale - where sales tax would then be applied.  


in German at least, these are slightly different concepts (Stempelmarke vs. 
Steuersiegel), the latter is typically found on tobacco products while the 
former isn't in use anymore since around 2002 (Austria and Germany)
http://imginfo.fotofinder.net/42/D1B5793540834622/half/WMW04130.jpg


cheers 
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Re: [Tagging] Node objects in tunnels or on bridges?

[Richard]

On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 10:05:33AM +1000, Warin wrote:
> On 9/06/2015 11:27 PM, Richard wrote:

> 
> >
> >yes, that is logical. It would require adding the information whether it is
> >right or left from the center of the road and renderers and other tools
> >learning how to cope with it.
> >
> >Does it work in practice?
> 
> As the node for the object (bin, light etc) should not be on the road (as it 
> is not) the information for the render is already there.

That was just an idea of André Pirard .. but yes, as long as we don't 
actually draw the area of the road it is logical to assume that such 
objects are part of the road.
Whether it would solve anything and work with our tools is a different
question, I suspect the answer to both is "no".

Richard

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Re: [Tagging] "Pet Relief Areas"

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

Am 10.06.2015 um 11:01 schrieb p...@trigpoint.me.uk:

>> I prefer leash_anchor over lead_hook because it is more generic and easier
>> to understand.
> Leash is AE, lead is BE.


thanks for pointing this out. Unfortunately, lead is also a material (Pb), an 
indication, a clue, etc while leash is almost always used in conjunction with 
dogs.

What about dog_anchor_point? Sounds more shape neutral than hook to me.

cheers 
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Re: [Tagging] How to tag a Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (US:DMV)

[Paul Johnson]

Tax stamps are for any stamp or seal for which a tax is paid.  Most
commonly, you find tax stamps on license plates and cigarette packs
(California has cool looking bear shaped stamps on their packs).

On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 10:15 AM,  wrote:

> On Tue Jun 9 16:06:40 2015 GMT+0100, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> > 2015-06-09 14:37 GMT+02:00 Paul Johnson :
> >
> > > How would you tag a shop that sells tax stamps and licenses, but is
> not a
> > > government office, and does not provide other services?  The Oklahoma
> Tax
> > > Commission uses such a system throughout the state (authorized "tag
> > > agents") to save people the hassle of having to drive down to their
> office
> > > on the capitol mall in Oklahoma City.
> >
> >
> >
> > In Italy you can buy tax stamps at the tobacco shop.
> > Your case can be a shop=tax_stamps_and_licenses? How do people call it?
> >
> Is a tax stamp some sort of vehicle tax?
>
> Phil (trigpoint)
> --
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Re: [Tagging] How to tag a Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (US:DMV)

[Paul Johnson]

>From experience, the opposite isn't true; Oregon expects you to explicitly
have an Oregon license plate or trip permit (a big reason why the first
exit in Oregon on all four freeways is "DMV & DOT Permits".  This seems to
only be enforced in a rather haphazard way that's just ripe for police
abuse, however, especially in the Portland area.

On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 4:34 PM, Janko Mihelić  wrote:

> What's the difference in handling? When you register your car in Oregon,
> you can drive it across the USA.
>
> For cases when you can only get a drivers license for inside Oregon we can
> use:
>
> driver_licensing=yes + driver_licensing:admin_level=4
>
>  uto, 9. lip 2015. 23:15 John Eldredge  je napisao:
>
> In the USA, how it is handled varies from state to state, so there is at
> least one country where it isn't uniformly handled on a national level.
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] "Pet Relief Areas"

[Philip Barnes]

On Wed, 2015-06-10 at 12:42 +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Am 10.06.2015 um 11:01 schrieb p...@trigpoint.me.uk:
> 
> >> I prefer leash_anchor over lead_hook because it is more generic and easier
> >> to understand.
> > Leash is AE, lead is BE.
> 
> 
> thanks for pointing this out. Unfortunately, lead is also a material (Pb), an 
> indication, a clue, etc while leash is almost always used in conjunction with 
> dogs.

One of the quirks of English, different pronunciation. A dog lead comes
from the verb to lead, as does leader.

> 
> What about dog_anchor_point? Sounds more shape neutral than hook to me.
> 
That sounds good, they are usually rings you can tie the dog lead to. A
hook wouldn't be very secure.

Actually it is one of those features that are so common I had not
considered mapping them before, it is something that most food shops
have.

Dog owners do of course also tie dogs to the bike parking bars,
especially if they are more visible from the shop :)

Phil (trigpoint)



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Re: [Tagging] How to tag a Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (US:DMV)

[johnw]

> On Jun 10, 2015, at 7:30 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> this article names tax stamp and fiscal stamp as synonyms in the first 
> sentence 


> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revenue_stamp 
> 
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Re: [Tagging] "Pet Relief Areas"

[johnw]

> On Jun 10, 2015, at 8:44 PM, Philip Barnes  wrote:
> 
>  A
> hook wouldn't be very secure.


The double hook in the picture would only let the dog off if the leash handle 
were opened and pulled upwards. Which is not really gonna happen with a dog. 

They did have some spring, closing hooks, but I imagine if the leash puts force 
on the spring, it gives. This double hook is much more secure - even more 
secure than someone’s bad knots ^^

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Re: [Tagging] Self serve and full serve gas stations

[Paul Johnson]

On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 7:47 AM,  wrote:

> On Tue Jun 9 13:23:05 2015 GMT+0100, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> > 2015-06-09 13:48 GMT+02:00 Philip Barnes :
> >
> > > > While I agree that fueling only is minimum service and not full
> > > > service, around here (Europe) minimum service is always cheaper than
> > > > self because there is someone who does work for you, while in self
> you
> > > > will do it and nobody has to paid for it (there might no even be any
> > > > staff at the gas station, and you'll pay in advance at a machine).
> > >
> > > In the UK your card is pre-authorised, usually to GBP99, you cannot
> > > easily prepay for an unknown amount.
> > > >
> > > The charge to your card is made after you have filled the car, with the
> > > amount of fuel you have bought.
> >
> >
> >
> > payment in advance is possible with "GCHQ-save" cash as well, no
> > compromising plastic needed ;-)
> >
> Why worry, the ANPR cameras will get you anyway.
>

I'd honestly be surprised if those are widely employed, because they're
damn near useless.  There's well over 200 varieties of license plates
issued in Oklahoma by the state.  Most of the tribes also have issuing
authority and often have multiple varieties of plates themselves (these can
get quite nuanced, for example, a disabled Cherokee veteran plate replaces
the tribe's seal with the coat of arms, with the flags of the Cherokee
Nation and the country (even if not US) they served for.  Not all of these
plates stick to strictly characters found on a US English keyboard, either
(some varieties of Cherokee plates also have no English on them, though the
number may have English characters).

Do they give change? Otherwise how do you know how much to prepay?
>

Yes, typically.
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Re: [Tagging] Self serve and full serve gas stations

[Paul Johnson]

On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 4:38 PM, John Willis  wrote:

>
>
> > On Jun 9, 2015, at 9:25 PM, Paul Johnson  wrote:
> >
> > P brands (Arco, Amoco, BP, Aral, am/pm, Wild Bean) usually make you go
> inside anyway and don't let you pay at the pump.
>
> A long time ago the self pumps were crap - but i have never seen pufdles
> of fuel anywhere.
>
> Now basically 95% of pumps in California are self, open 24/7, and pay at
> the pump with a card reader or RFID token. At night there no attendants at
> many places. Everyone is very comfortable putting gas in the car, and with
> a vapor recovery system mandatory (on gasoline cars) not even the fumes
> escape when fueling, let alone liquid.
>
> They are pretty damn clean.
>
> In Japan, Self is very popular, and similarly very clean - though as a
> californian, the lack of vapor recovery means filling up the tank causes it
> to shoot sninky vapor out around the nozzle - so they have plastic gloves
> and a little towel for you there - rather than making the cars have a vapor
> recovery system.
>
> Maybe in places where self is second rate, people have trouble or cause
> spills, but i think most Californians could be considered "gas station
> attendants"
>

Selective blindness?  California's not exactly been an exception when I've
been there.
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Re: [Tagging] How to tag a Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (US:DMV)

[johnw]

> On Jun 10, 2015, at 7:30 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer  
> wrote:
> 
>> The name for them is revenue_stamp
>> 
>> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revenue_stamp 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> this article names tax stamp and fiscal stamp as synonyms in the first 
> sentence 


Ah, and we are talking about paying for paperwork (100% revenue), not a tax on 
a product, so in this situation, it is definitely a Revenue stamp.


I don’t buy so much alcohol (an occasional bottle of wine or limoncello, and 
never tobacco, so I don’t come across it’s cousin the tax stamp in my daily 
life.


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Re: [Tagging] How to tag a Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (US:DMV)

[Shawn K. Quinn]

On Wed, 2015-06-10 at 01:26 +0200, Andreas Goss wrote:
> Don't know why people are so keen on subtags on this one. Nobody would
> tag a fastfood restaurant buildng=yes + food=burgers.

But we do:

building=yes
amenity=fast_food
cuisine=burger

-- 
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Donation

[Andreas Goss]

On 6/10/15 04:23 , Warin wrote:

And then I don't understand why you do donation=blood, but then
blood:plasma=, blood:whole= etc. Why not donation:blood=yes?





A person cannot donate blood plasma .. they donate whole blood and the
plasma is separated out later?
So the donation is blood, what gets used from that donation is a later
process, similar to cloths .. some get used as rags others as clothing.


Ok .. I'm wrong there.. you can donate just blood plasma.
Not normal practice here for donations. A normal blood donation is whole
blood.
But maybe in other places they do plasma only?



It was about the tagging not what you can donte.
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Re: [Tagging] Self serve and full serve gas stations

[johnw]

> On Jun 10, 2015, at 9:16 PM, Paul Johnson  wrote:
> 
> Selective blindness?  California's not exactly been an exception when I've 
> been there. 

Lived there until I was 32, and pumped enough gas just for myself to drive 
300,000 miles. 

Yea, there are shitty stations, but usually that is a function of the 
neighborhood, not the pumps. 

Or it is an issue with the maintenance of the cars (leaking oil and fluids, 
which happens a lot)  -again not really an issue of people spilling at the 
pumps. 

My mother has lived there her whole life (60+), and I don’t ever see her car 
with a gasoline spill stain around her filler-cap door. 

yea, it’s anecdotal, but it’s my impression. 

I’d worry more about the spills in the bathroom…. Those seem more hazardous
>< 


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Re: [Tagging] How to tag a Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (US:DMV)

[Andreas Goss]

On Wed, 2015-06-10 at 01:26 +0200, Andreas Goss wrote:

Don't know why people are so keen on subtags on this one. Nobody would
tag a fastfood restaurant buildng=yes + food=burgers.


But we do:

building=yes
amenity=fast_food
cuisine=burger


Except you put in a amenity=fast_food which specifies that type of POI 
very clearly.


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Re: [Tagging] Self serve and full serve gas stations

[John F. Eldredge]

I see the occasional stain at a gas station that might be spilled 
gasoline, but it tends to be a few drops.  I have occasionally had the 
filler hose drip a drop or two as I am replacing it on the pump.  The 
only time I have ever encountered a large-scale spill was the time, 
years ago, that someone had left the hose handle in the latched-open 
position, so that it started spewing gasoline as soon as I flipped up 
the lever to select the fuel type.


On 06/10/2015 08:35 AM, johnw wrote:


On Jun 10, 2015, at 9:16 PM, Paul Johnson > wrote:


Selective blindness?  California's not exactly been an exception when 
I've been there.


Lived there until I was 32, and pumped enough gas just for myself to 
drive 300,000 miles.


Yea, there are shitty stations, but usually that is a function of the 
neighborhood, not the pumps.


Or it is an issue with the maintenance of the cars (leaking oil and 
fluids, which happens a lot)  -again not really an issue of people 
spilling at the pumps.


My mother has lived there her whole life (60+), and I don’t ever see 
her car with a gasoline spill stain around her filler-cap door.


yea, it’s anecdotal, but it’s my impression.

I’d worry more about the spills in the bathroom…. Those seem more 
hazardous><



Javbw


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Re: [Tagging] Node objects in tunnels or on bridges?

[Swen Wacker]

Sometimes there are buildings on bridges. Is there a "correct" way to tag
the bridge / the building on the bridge?

http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/4279571
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulteney_Bridge



2015-06-10 12:36 GMT+02:00 Richard :

> On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 10:05:33AM +1000, Warin wrote:
> > On 9/06/2015 11:27 PM, Richard wrote:
>
> >
> > >
> > >yes, that is logical. It would require adding the information whether
> it is
> > >right or left from the center of the road and renderers and other tools
> > >learning how to cope with it.
> > >
> > >Does it work in practice?
> >
> > As the node for the object (bin, light etc) should not be on the road
> (as it is not) the information for the render is already there.
>
> That was just an idea of André Pirard .. but yes, as long as we don't
> actually draw the area of the road it is logical to assume that such
> objects are part of the road.
> Whether it would solve anything and work with our tools is a different
> question, I suspect the answer to both is "no".
>
> Richard
>
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Re: [Tagging] Node objects in tunnels or on bridges?

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2015-06-10 18:03 GMT+02:00 Swen Wacker :

> Sometimes there are buildings on bridges. Is there a "correct" way to tag
> the bridge / the building on the bridge?



there is man_made=bridge to map the bridge, which is used ~3300 times. It
was unanimously voted with 27 votes last year:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dbridge
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/man_made%3Dbridge#Voting


once you have the bridge mapped, you should map the building and set layers
to show stacking order.

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 12:14 AM, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 10/06/2015 4:44 PM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote:
>
>>
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Device_Charging_Station
>>
>  The name works well for the intended use.
>
> However it limits the use of the tag.
> For example .. a tourist might be able to charge their phone/etc in a
> cafe/pub when they stop for a drink/meal. It may not be a 'designated
> device charging station' but the hardware is there.
>


A power spot under the table at Starbucks becomes a node within the shop
outline:
amenity=device_charging_station
access=customers
operator=Starbucks
socket:device:USB-A=yes

Or an attribute of the shop:
shop=cafe
name=Quaint Cafe in Paris
device_charging_station=public  (no purchase required)

Event venues often have lockers (see
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Device_Charging_Station
)
amenity=device_charging_station
access=destination   (it is inside a paid area)
operator=Big Event Centre Centre
fee=yes
lockers=yes


---
One could tag every power outlet that seems to be in a public space.  For
many years I charged my laptop at
airports by finding the places the cleaning crew plugged in their vacuum
cleaners.  But that sort of accidental
charging station is of a different character to a designated place.

Chain store device charging (like every corporate Starbucks location)
should be discussed.  Maybe adding nodes
to every one is less useful than creating a higher level expectation that
the chain offers the amenity unless
tagged with device_charging_station=no.
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[Tagging] Airport "Pet Relief Areas" (toilet and watering spot for pet and service animals)

[Bryce Nesbitt]

The prior thread on this subject was hijacked to discuss "dog parking
areas".

I am seeking comments on tagging for pet relief areas: areas specifically
designated
for pet and service animals to go to the toilet during travel.

One possible tagging
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/346028062#map=19/37.71141/-122.20997
Reviews of such areas without maps:
http://www.dogjaunt.com/guides/airport-pet-relief-areas/



On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 12:14 PM, Bryce Nesbitt 
wrote:

> How might we tag "Pet Relief Areas"
> http://opendoorsnfp.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/ReliefGuideRev.pdf
>
> This is not:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:vending%3Dexcrement_bags
> or
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Ddog_bin
> or
> dog_waste_bin or a variety of other tags, though it probably incorporates
> one.
>
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Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations

[Craig Wallace]

On 2015-06-10 07:44, Bryce Nesbitt wrote:

Here's a writeup on a "Duck" tag for this feature:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Device_Charging_Station
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3539479319/history

I strongly feel that amenity=charging_station is fully entrenched as a
vehicle charging station, and thus a new tag is needed.
Using
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:power_supply#Tag_values_for_type_of_sockets
might work well, as long
as the top level tag is new.


Why does everything have to be a 'station'? A station is a place where 
trains stop, not where you plug your phone in. Plus it makes the tag 
unnecessarily verbose, and more prone to errors.

Simpler to just tag amenity=device_charging

I would agree it is very different to places where you charge your car, 
so should be a separate tag. And maybe that tag should be changed to 
amenity=vehicle_charging or similar.


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Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations

[Philip Barnes]

On Wed, 2015-06-10 at 18:07 +0100, Craig Wallace wrote:
> 
> 
> Why does everything have to be a 'station'? A station is a place 
> where 
> trains stop, not where you plug your phone in. Plus it makes the tag 
> unnecessarily verbose, and more prone to errors.
> Simpler to just tag amenity=device_charging

+1
or if a subtag on an device_charging=yes/mains/usb.

I would expect an available mains socket is the norm, a USB socket is
rather fragile for public use.

Phil (trigpoint)


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Re: [Tagging] Self serve and full serve gas stations

[Philip Barnes]

On Wed, 2015-06-10 at 07:15 -0500, Paul Johnson wrote:
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 7:47 AM,  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Why worry, the ANPR cameras will get you anyway.
> I'd honestly be surprised if those are widely employed, because 
> they're damn near useless.  There's well over 200 varieties of 
> license plates issued in Oklahoma by the state.  

They are widely used in UK, most fuel stations in the UK have them to
prevent driveoffs, there is no prepay in the UK only go in and pay or
pay-at-pump and most pay-at-pump is dual purpose.

Eurotunnel certainly use it at checkin, and it would be a non-starter
if it couldn't detect French, German, Dutch or Belgian plates. Although
it is helped by only needing to recognise number that are booked.

It is used for parking enforement at motorway service areas, if you are
staying at a hotel or at a resturant you give them your number and they
authorise you.

The London Congestion Charge is based on it, as is freeflow tolling at
the Dartford crossing, actually its used for tolling in Ontario which
uses US style plates.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_Highway_407


> Most of the tribes also have issuing authority and often have 
> multiple varieties of plates themselves (these can get quite nuanced, 
> for example, a disabled Cherokee veteran plate replaces the tribe's 
> seal with the coat of arms, with the flags of the Cherokee Nation and 
> the country (even if not US) they served for.  Not all of these 
> plates stick to strictly characters found on a US English keyboard, 
> either (some varieties of Cherokee plates also have no English on 
> them, though the number may have English characters).
I am surprised non-latin characters are allowed, whilst I am used to
seeing foreign plates, I can read them. Some German plates have umlauts
on them, but easily read. What happens if they drive off after an
accident?

Phil (trigpoint)





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Re: [Tagging] Self serve and full serve gas stations

[John Eldredge]

From my experience in the USA, prepay is only available by going inside and 
paying the clerk. If it turns out you didn't have enough room in your fuel 
tank for the amount you prepaid for, you go inside a second time and get a 
refund. The majority of self-service stations now require that you either 
pay at the pump with a card, or come inside and prepay if you will be using 
cash, because of people pumping fuel and then driving away without paying.


--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On June 10, 2015 12:55:14 PM Philip Barnes  wrote:


On Wed, 2015-06-10 at 07:15 -0500, Paul Johnson wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 7:47 AM,  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Why worry, the ANPR cameras will get you anyway.
> I'd honestly be surprised if those are widely employed, because
> they're damn near useless.  There's well over 200 varieties of
> license plates issued in Oklahoma by the state.

They are widely used in UK, most fuel stations in the UK have them to
prevent driveoffs, there is no prepay in the UK only go in and pay or
pay-at-pump and most pay-at-pump is dual purpose.

Eurotunnel certainly use it at checkin, and it would be a non-starter
if it couldn't detect French, German, Dutch or Belgian plates. Although
it is helped by only needing to recognise number that are booked.

It is used for parking enforement at motorway service areas, if you are
staying at a hotel or at a resturant you give them your number and they
authorise you.

The London Congestion Charge is based on it, as is freeflow tolling at
the Dartford crossing, actually its used for tolling in Ontario which
uses US style plates.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_Highway_407


> Most of the tribes also have issuing authority and often have
> multiple varieties of plates themselves (these can get quite nuanced,
> for example, a disabled Cherokee veteran plate replaces the tribe's
> seal with the coat of arms, with the flags of the Cherokee Nation and
> the country (even if not US) they served for.  Not all of these
> plates stick to strictly characters found on a US English keyboard,
> either (some varieties of Cherokee plates also have no English on
> them, though the number may have English characters).
I am surprised non-latin characters are allowed, whilst I am used to
seeing foreign plates, I can read them. Some German plates have umlauts
on them, but easily read. What happens if they drive off after an
accident?

Phil (trigpoint)





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Re: [Tagging] Self serve and full serve gas stations

[Shawn K. Quinn]

On Wed, 2015-06-10 at 13:02 -0500, John Eldredge wrote:
> From my experience in the USA, prepay is only available by going inside and 
> paying the clerk. If it turns out you didn't have enough room in your fuel 
> tank for the amount you prepaid for, you go inside a second time and get a 
> refund. The majority of self-service stations now require that you either 
> pay at the pump with a card, or come inside and prepay if you will be using 
> cash, because of people pumping fuel and then driving away without paying.

The only stations I know of that still do post-pay are RaceWay stations
(or it might have been RaceTrac, it's been a while) and those require
you to swipe a (store-issued) ID card at the pump first.

-- 
Shawn K. Quinn 


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Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 10:33 AM, Philip Barnes  wrote:
> +1
> I would expect an available mains socket is the norm, a USB socket is
> rather fragile for public use.

There are tens of thousands of public USB sockets.  Vendors in China
make special
rugged sockets just for this.

Plus, if you take the time to real the proposal, there are lockable
cubbies for your mobile
device, which have multiple charger heads (e.g. Apple 30 Pin,
Micro-USB, USB 3.0, etc).

--

The existing amenity=charging_station could be retagged to
amenity=ev_charging or amenity=vehicle_charging.
With a suitable overlap period, data consumers could adapt.

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Re: [Tagging] Airport "Pet Relief Areas" (toilet and watering spot for pet and service animals)

[Bryce Nesbitt]

A tag is needed for"inside secure area" or not ideas?
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Re: [Tagging] Self serve and full serve gas stations

[John Willis]

> On Jun 11, 2015, at 3:13 AM, Shawn K. Quinn  wrote:
> 
> The only stations I know of that still do post-pay are RaceWay stations
> (or it might have been RaceTrac, it's been a while) and those require
> you to swipe a (store-issued) ID card at the pump first.

In Japan, a lot of the "automated" self stations (which of course accept cash 
at the pump, being Japan and All) are pre-pay, but there are a lot of self 
stations with an office and an attendant (ENOS J-quest stations) that are still 
post-pay. These are stations that opened in the last 5 years, so it is a 
conscious decision to keep doing this post pay, which is surprising to me. 

As long as we're discussing weird gas station habits, you are not allowed to 
fill your own gas cans. An attendant has to fill them - and only 40L.  They 
made this change because of terrorist worries or some stupid reason.  And All 
gasoline cans have to be metal. All kerosene cans are plastic (so gasoline 
isn't accidentally put in a kerosene heater - which would explode and burn a 
house down). Farmers can get 200L of diesel in cans for tractors. 

Javbw. 
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Donation

[Ruben Maes]

Thanks for the feedback, everyone.
Replied inline below.


2015-06-10 1:58 GMT+02:00 Andreas Goss :
> Honestly I don't think it's such a good idea to start voting 1 year later
> when there wasn't an ongoing discussion.
>
>
> I'm not sure about amenity=donation when some things are very different.
> I also feel like bood_bank, sperm_bank (do we want to tag those?) and

I'm not a native English speaker but according to Wikipedia[1] "blood
bank" means a place where blood is stored, not collected. Maybe
there's a difference between BE and AE?

> amenity=social facility would cover most of it and there are other like
> shop=charity etc. So we already have a lot of POIs where you could just add
> donation:*=yes.
> With that in mind limiting the prosoal to those few tags also makes little
> sense, might as well use healthcare=donations then.
>
> donation:facility=mobile makes no sense as we don't tag this. At best this
> could be some HOT tag.

In Belgium there are places where a mobile blood collection team
visits regularly[2]. I've mapped an example[3].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_bank
[2] http://www.rodekruis.be/wat-kan-jij-doen/geef-bloed/waar-bloed-geven/
[3] https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3586748252

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Donation

[Ruben Maes]

Replied inline below.

2015-06-10 6:52 GMT+02:00 Holger Jeromin :
> Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> Wrote
>  in message:
>
>> Ok .. I'm wrong there.. you can donate just blood plasma.
>>
>> Not normal practice here for donations. A normal blood donation is
>> whole blood.
>>
>> But maybe in other places they do plasma only?
>>
>
> Plasma only is common in Germany, at least in Aachen.

Here in Belgium too.
The machine separates the plasma from the rest of the blood in
real-time, and gives the latter back to you when its buffer is full.
You don't have to wait as long after a plasma donation, because the
impact on your body is lower. In Belgium it's two weeks after a plasma
donation, and a few months after a whole blood donation.

> We have blood donation fully integrated in Healthcare 2.0 as far
>  as I remember.
> I do not see the need for a separate tag proposal.

The closest I could find is healthcare=blood_bank, in the proposal
page for Healthcare 1.0, with a link to "blood bank" on Wikipedia[1]
(where it says "A blood bank is a cache or bank of blood or blood
components, gathered as a result of blood donation or collection,
stored and preserved for later use in blood transfusion.").
The word "blood" is never used in Healthcare 2.0 as far as I can see.

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Donation

[Ruben Maes]

Maybe healthcare=blood_donation would be better? Less
"generic-but-not-actually-generic", and a clear description of what it
is.

I'm thinking about aborting the proposal and re-writing it with
healthcare=blood_donation, and abandoning the
facility=mobile/dedicated/hospital tag, but I would like to hear your
opinions.


2015-06-10 23:42 GMT+02:00 Ruben Maes :
> Replied inline below.
>
> 2015-06-10 6:52 GMT+02:00 Holger Jeromin :
>> Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> Wrote
>>  in message:
>>
>>> Ok .. I'm wrong there.. you can donate just blood plasma.
>>>
>>> Not normal practice here for donations. A normal blood donation is
>>> whole blood.
>>>
>>> But maybe in other places they do plasma only?
>>>
>>
>> Plasma only is common in Germany, at least in Aachen.
>
> Here in Belgium too.
> The machine separates the plasma from the rest of the blood in
> real-time, and gives the latter back to you when its buffer is full.
> You don't have to wait as long after a plasma donation, because the
> impact on your body is lower. In Belgium it's two weeks after a plasma
> donation, and a few months after a whole blood donation.
>
>> We have blood donation fully integrated in Healthcare 2.0 as far
>>  as I remember.
>> I do not see the need for a separate tag proposal.
>
> The closest I could find is healthcare=blood_bank, in the proposal
> page for Healthcare 1.0, with a link to "blood bank" on Wikipedia[1]
> (where it says "A blood bank is a cache or bank of blood or blood
> components, gathered as a result of blood donation or collection,
> stored and preserved for later use in blood transfusion.").
> The word "blood" is never used in Healthcare 2.0 as far as I can see.

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Re: [Tagging] Dog Anchor Point (was"Pet Relief Areas")

[John Willis]

I don't care what we call it, as long as we don't use the word "parking" in the 
name. 

I its cute and all ("dog parking!") but i really want to keep it away from the 
parking amenity for transportation devices (even if that is a horse).  

Tagging the hardware

Leash_anchor

Some of them are clips, rings, hooks, or double hooks - all are anchors for the 
leash of the pet

Perhaps pet_anchor 

Seems good to me, as people can anchor any leashed pet - and I have seen my 
share of leashed cats and even a leashed baby wild boar here in my town. 

Would this go under amenity, or is there some pet= key this should go under?


Javbw 

> On Jun 10, 2015, at 7:42 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer  
> wrote:
> 
> dog_anchor_point

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[Tagging] Off Topic: alignment point help

[johnw]

I know this is off-topic, but I am using iD, and I need an alignment point set 
from someone who uses JSOM and has automatic map offset correction setup. 

The people I usually ask have been away from OSM for over a month, and I don’t 
know who else to ask for this small favor. 

http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=19/35.74840/140.38510 


I traced a few lines around a circle near Narita Airport. 

Since there is an imagery offset, many mappers over many years have used 
different offset points, so I don’t know which one is the most correct for this 
imagery. 

Would someone who uses JSOM with a proper imagery offset please go in and move 
these lines to their exact position on the imagery and save the edit, 

that way I have a reference point to manually adjust the imagery offset in iD 
to to the proper offset. 


Thanks very much. 


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[Tagging] Tagging hand operated bicycle pumps (compressed_air)

[Bryce Nesbitt]

What kind of tagging would work for hand operated public bike pumps?
Something likely to meet the needs of data consumers, and thus eventually be
processed and rendered?

See:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dcompressed_air
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3585224997/history
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dbicycle

The compressed_air seems to have an implied access:motor_vehicle=yes,
thus using this for stations that can't be reached by car might reduce the
value
of existing mapping.


  amenity=compressed_air
compress_it_yourself=yes
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Re: [Tagging] Tagging hand operated bicycle pumps (compressed_air)

[John Willis]

Maybe it can be tagged with a variant of this?

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dbicycle_repair_station

bicycle_repair_station:pump=yes
bicycle_repair_station:tools=no

Or something. 

Javbw

> On Jun 11, 2015, at 8:26 AM, Bryce Nesbitt  wrote:
> 
> What kind of tagging would work for hand operated public bike pumps?
> Something likely to meet the needs of data consumers, and thus eventually be
> processed and rendered?
> 
> See:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dcompressed_air
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3585224997/history
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dbicycle
> 
> The compressed_air seems to have an implied access:motor_vehicle=yes,
> thus using this for stations that can't be reached by car might reduce the 
> value
> of existing mapping.
> 
> 
>   amenity=compressed_air
> compress_it_yourself=yes
> 
> 
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Donation

[Warin]

On 11/06/2015 7:35 AM, Ruben Maes wrote:

In Belgium there are places where a mobile blood collection team
visits regularly[2]. I've mapped an example[3].

[3] https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3586748252

___



a) Is it there all the time? The present tags don't say.

If not then when is it there?
I'd use opening_hours to tag the data.
If there is no fixed schedule .. then I' not map it.


---

b) Why tag plasma,etc=no ... the tag blood:whole=yes should be enough to 
say what is donated?






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Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations

[Warin]

On 11/06/2015 2:38 AM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote:
On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 12:14 AM, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com 
> wrote:


On 10/06/2015 4:44 PM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote:


http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Device_Charging_Station

The name works well for the intended use.

However it limits the use of the tag.
For example .. a tourist might be able to charge their phone/etc
in a cafe/pub when they stop for a drink/meal. It may not be a
'designated device charging station' but the hardware is there.



A power spot under the table at Starbucks becomes a node within the 
shop outline:

amenity=device_charging_station


But the intention there is not a 'device_charging_station'?


---
One could tag every power outlet that seems to be in a public space.  
For many years I charged my laptop at
airports by finding the places the cleaning crew plugged in their 
vacuum cleaners.  But that sort of accidental

charging station is of a different character to a designated place.


If they are usefull and of interest to the public then I'd map them. 
Where they cannot be used ..I'd not map them.


Another case.
Camp sites in their shower block sometimes provide power sockets for 
hair driers/shavers .. they can also be used for device charging.

Oh .. those with laundries may have power sockets for irons ...


Chain store device charging (like every corporate Starbucks location) 
should be discussed.  Maybe adding nodes
to every one is less useful than creating a higher level expectation 
that the chain offers the amenity unless

tagged with device_charging_station=no.


+1
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Re: [Tagging] Airport "Pet Relief Areas" (toilet and watering spot for pet and service animals)

[Warin]

On 11/06/2015 6:17 AM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote:

A tag is needed for"inside secure area" or not ideas?



Humm ...
 'inside'?
As in inside a building? Would not that be evident by the building being 
mapped too?


'secure area'?
If 'inside' then what more security that the walls, door/s window/s?
If 'outside' then tag the fence, gates .. what more?

Self closing doors/gates should be tagged .. usefull for child 
playgrounds and swimming pools too.
Self latching doors/gates should be tagged .. usefull for child 
playgrounds and swimming pools too.

But those should be properties for the relevant door/gate.

? Don't know ... how would it be rendered as a 'secure area' .. given it 
would be usefull for not only pet areas?
Padlock on the area? Might be more usefull than individually tagging the 
doors/gates/ ?


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Re: [Tagging] Airport "Pet Relief Areas" (toilet and watering spot for pet and service animals)

[John Willis]

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 11, 2015, at 8:40 AM, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 11/06/2015 6:17 AM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote:
>> A tag is needed for"inside secure area" or not ideas?
> 
> Humm ...
> 'inside'?
> As in inside a building? Would not that be evident by the building being 
> mapped too?

An airport terminal is f**king huge. 

Drop a pin where it is. 

> 
> 'secure area'?

They mean the area that is "inside" the security checked area - so you don't 
have to leave the secure area and come back through security screening. 

They are not saying to render the secure area. 




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Re: [Tagging] Airport "Pet Relief Areas" (toilet and watering spot for pet and service animals)

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 4:40 PM, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 11/06/2015 6:17 AM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote:
>
>> A tag is needed for"inside secure area" or not ideas?
>>
>>
> Humm ...
>  'inside'?
> As in inside a building? Would not that be evident by the building being
> mapped too?
>
 'secure area'?
> If 'inside' then what more security that the walls, door/s window/s?
> If 'outside' then tag the fence, gates .. what more?
>
Self closing doors/gates should be tagged .. usefull for child playgrounds
> and swimming pools too.
> Self latching doors/gates should be tagged .. usefull for child
> playgrounds and swimming pools too.
> But those should be properties for the relevant door/gate.
>

Warin: please
do think and consider before posting.
Think to the subject at hand: airports.


-
An airport these days has a security barrier. A pet toilet area may be
located one side or the other.
For a passenger transiting from one flight to another, exiting and
re-entering security takes additional time and hassle.

Some airports have multiple zones: in particular international transit and
domestic transit.

-

For all airport tagging and wayfinding, it's relevant to know which secure
area the feature is located within.
The feature may be geographically close, but inaccessible to the map reader.
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Re: [Tagging] Tagging hand operated bicycle pumps (compressed_air)

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 4:37 PM, John Willis  wrote:

> Maybe it can be tagged with a variant of this?
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dbicycle_repair_station
> bicycle_repair_station:pump=yes
> bicycle_repair_station:tools=no
>

The question is which of these tags can stand as the "main tag".
bicycle_repair_station:pump goes with
shop=bicycle and amenity=bicycle_repair_station.



Are these there features similar enough to be under one scheme:
* compressed air at a car service station
* compressed air at a car repair station
* compressed air at a bike shop, , inaccessible to cars.
* Public bike pump, inaccessible to cars.
* Public compressed air, inaccessible to cars.

Unfortunately the compressed_air authors did not fully flesh out their
scheme.
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Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations

[Bryce Nesbitt]

One could tag every power outlet that seems to be in a public space.  For
many years I charged my laptop at

> airports by finding the places the cleaning crew plugged in their vacuum
> cleaners.  But that sort of accidental
>  charging station is of a different character to a designated place.
>

Why?
A random outlet is unlikely to be well positioned, maintained or
universally usable for device charging. People
are free to map those outlets, but rendering should be able to choose if
they are included.
I don't see these as the same feature at all.

---
Another type of port often seen are "shaver only" ports, intended to be
unusable for anything else.
Camp sites may have these, and they may work for device charging in some
limited cases, but they
are clearly not dedicated for that purpose.
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Donation

[John Eldredge]

My experience as an American has been that a "blood bank" is a storage 
location rather than a donation point, although there is no particular 
reasons both functions can't be under one roof.


--
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"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On June 10, 2015 4:36:28 PM Ruben Maes  wrote:


Thanks for the feedback, everyone.
Replied inline below.


2015-06-10 1:58 GMT+02:00 Andreas Goss :
> Honestly I don't think it's such a good idea to start voting 1 year later
> when there wasn't an ongoing discussion.
>
>
> I'm not sure about amenity=donation when some things are very different.
> I also feel like bood_bank, sperm_bank (do we want to tag those?) and

I'm not a native English speaker but according to Wikipedia[1] "blood
bank" means a place where blood is stored, not collected. Maybe
there's a difference between BE and AE?

> amenity=social facility would cover most of it and there are other like
> shop=charity etc. So we already have a lot of POIs where you could just add
> donation:*=yes.
> With that in mind limiting the prosoal to those few tags also makes little
> sense, might as well use healthcare=donations then.
>
> donation:facility=mobile makes no sense as we don't tag this. At best this
> could be some HOT tag.

In Belgium there are places where a mobile blood collection team
visits regularly[2]. I've mapped an example[3].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_bank
[2] http://www.rodekruis.be/wat-kan-jij-doen/geef-bloed/waar-bloed-geven/
[3] https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3586748252

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Re: [Tagging] Airport "Pet Relief Areas" (toilet and watering spot for pet and service animals)

[Warin]

On 11/06/2015 10:11 AM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote:
On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 4:40 PM, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com 
> wrote:


On 11/06/2015 6:17 AM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote:

A tag is needed for"inside secure area" or not ideas?


Humm ...
 'inside'?
As in inside a building? Would not that be evident by the building
being mapped too?

 'secure area'?
If 'inside' then what more security that the walls, door/s window/s?
If 'outside' then tag the fence, gates .. what more?

Self closing doors/gates should be tagged .. usefull for child
playgrounds and swimming pools too.
Self latching doors/gates should be tagged .. usefull for child
playgrounds and swimming pools too.
But those should be properties for the relevant door/gate.


Warin: please
do think and consider before posting.
Think to the subject at hand: airports.



Opps .. missed the 'Airport' in the subject line - sorry.

-
An airport these days has a security barrier. A pet toilet area may be 
located one side or the other.




Got it.

There was a proposal for "amenity 
=security_control 
 
Point or area for tagging of security control." ???

Listed on https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Aeroways
I have not check the proposal ... cannot find it easily.

But Aeroway=secure_area  might be a usefull property tag to have ?
Would have applicatrion to those shops 'inside' the 'secure area'.

Note Just had a vote on reception_desk - opposed .. part reason "needed 
but a special case" does not bode well for any "special case" like 
airport pet relief areas .. g.

I've replied that a Police Station too is a special case...
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Re: [Tagging] Airport "Pet Relief Areas" (toilet and watering spot for pet and service animals)

[johnw]

> On Jun 11, 2015, at 10:09 AM, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> But Aeroway=secure_area  might be a usefull property tag to have ? 
> Would have applicatrion to those shops 'inside' the 'secure area'. 


This would be a very good attribute to a node dropped on a terminal building.


Being able able to put it on an area -  to split a building  between secure and 
not (and where it it can be crossed one way (security checkpoint, or one-way 
exits for travellers [not private employee entrances]) would be good, the big 
question would be how to portray this without indoor mapping. 
Large terminals have different floors and different passages that are secure 
and insecure. 

Trying to map the inside of a terminal floor by floor sounds like a nightmare. 

good suggestion for  node attribute - it can be really useful for shops and 
even malls - there are seperate malls at narita that are on the secure and and 
unsecure sides. 

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Re: [Tagging] Airport "Pet Relief Areas" (toilet and watering spot for pet and service animals)

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 7:28 PM, johnw  wrote:

>
> On Jun 11, 2015, at 10:09 AM, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> But Aeroway=secure_area  might be a usefull property tag to have ?
> Would have applicatrion to those shops 'inside' the 'secure area'.
>
>
> This would be a very good attribute to a node dropped on a terminal
> building. 
>

It should be flexible enough to accommodate more than one type of secure:

aeroway_security=sterile:international_transit
aeroway_security=sterile:domestic
aeroway_security=landside
aeroway_security=none

For now this would just be placed on nodes that are in a given area, such
as a charging station.
This sidesteps the indoor mapping/building level complication for now.
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Re: [Tagging] Airport "Pet Relief Areas" (toilet and watering spot for pet and service animals)

[johnw]

> 
> 
> It should be flexible enough to accommodate more than one type of secure:
> 
> aeroway_security=sterile:international_transit

aeroway_security=sterile:international_arrivals
aeroway_security=sterile:international_departure


> aeroway_security=sterile:domestic

aeroway_security=sterile:domestic_departure
aeroway_security=sterile:domestic_arrivals

> aeroway_security=landside
> aeroway_security=none

I would have 3 different levels of international - as often areas in arrivals 
before the immigration terminal basically means you are not “in” the country - 
you are in “transit” AFAIK. 

Also, International arrivals and departures are 100% separated at many 
international airports (They load the plane from the second floor, and unload 
the plane onto the third floor)
 or have a specific point where they are bridged one-way (for connecting 
international flights, where you can’t go back the same way)


Domestic terminals often have mixed arrivals/departures - you watch the people 
get off the plane, then you go on through he same door onto the plane - but it 
might also be separated at some places, so we might want to plan for that. 
(just add both the tags, or have a separate tag?)

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Re: [Tagging] Airport "Pet Relief Areas" (toilet and watering spot for pet and service animals)

[johnw]

I would like to make it a generic tag for many places, as pet relief areas show 
up in other places besides airports, just like prayer rooms, immigration, and 
security checkpoints. 

The ones I would like to map are on tollway service areas. 


Javbw

> On Jun 11, 2015, at 1:47 AM, Bryce Nesbitt  wrote:
> 
> The prior thread on this subject was hijacked to discuss "dog parking areas".
> 
> I am seeking comments on tagging for pet relief areas: areas specifically 
> designated
> for pet and service animals to go to the toilet during travel.
> 
> One possible tagging
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/346028062#map=19/37.71141/-122.20997 
> 
> Reviews of such areas without maps:
> http://www.dogjaunt.com/guides/airport-pet-relief-areas/ 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 12:14 PM, Bryce Nesbitt  > wrote:
> How might we tag "Pet Relief Areas"
> http://opendoorsnfp.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/ReliefGuideRev.pdf 
> 
> 
> This is not:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:vending%3Dexcrement_bags 
> 
> or
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Ddog_bin 
> 
> or
> dog_waste_bin or a variety of other tags, though it probably incorporates one.
> 
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Re: [Tagging] Airport "Pet Relief Areas" (toilet and watering spot for pet and service animals)

[Warin]

On 11/06/2015 1:54 PM, johnw wrote:



It should be flexible enough to accommodate more than one type of secure:

aeroway_security=sterile:international_transit


aeroway_security=sterile:international_arrivals
aeroway_security=sterile:international_departure



aeroway_security=sterile:domestic


aeroway_security=sterile:domestic_departure
aeroway_security=sterile:domestic_arrivals


aeroway_security=landside
aeroway_security=none


I would have 3 different levels of international - as often areas in 
arrivals before the immigration terminal basically means you are not 
“in” the country - you are in “transit” AFAIK.


Also, International arrivals and departures are 100% separated at many 
international airports (They load the plane from the second floor, and 
unload the plane onto the third floor)
 or have a specific point where they are bridged one-way (for 
connecting international flights, where you can’t go back the same way)



Domestic terminals often have mixed arrivals/departures - you watch 
the people get off the plane, then you go on through he same door onto 
the plane - but it might also be separated at some places, so we might 
want to plan for that. (just add both the tags, or have a separate tag?)




 The 'sterile' I think is redundant.

values I understand
international
international_departure
international_arrival
domestic
domestic_arrival
domestic_departure
yes (as in there is security . but unknown or variable type/classification)
no (as in no security)

I do not understand 'aeroway_security=landside' ... ?




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Re: [Tagging] Airport "Pet Relief Areas" (toilet and watering spot for pet and service animals)

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 9:43 PM, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

>   The 'sterile' I think is redundant.
>
> The sterile is *not* redundant, it's a grouping classifier.
Very important, given the blizzard of motley tags that may follow it.

aeroway_security=sida:xx
aeroway_security=sterile:xx


Otherwise you have to know about all the possible secure values to figure
out which ones are for
passengers and which ones are for airport employees:


> international
> international_departure
> international_arrival
> domestic
> domestic_arrival
> domestic_departure
> yes (as in there is security . but unknown or variable type/classification)
> no (as in no security)
> I do not understand 'aeroway_security=landside' ... ?
>

 "landside" is within the airport security zone, outside terminal
security.  Anyone can access this zone typically, but airport security
rules apply such as no lasers or guns.
Other security zones include "Air Operations Area" and "baggage_handling"
for micromappers.

A fuel station for example is likely in the "AOA" security zone and
inaccessible for example to caravans (That's one of the reasons
amenity=fuel is such a bad choice for such fuel stations).





Alternatively free text, unparsable, has merits also.  It displays far
better in a popup window on a mobile device:

security_zone=International Arrivals
security_zone=General Aviation AOA
security_zone=Bag Make-Up Room
security_zone=International Departures

Yes, in some airports General Aviation is it's own security zone, something
GA pilots must contend with.
It's neither SIDA nor sterile as objects may be introduced from an
unregulated airport.


http://picpaste.com/Selection_235-UxmuLt8r.png




So what colour should we paint the bike shed?
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