Re: [Tagging] route=running

[Volker Schmidt]

I would say yes, provided these are signposted routes.

Volker
Padova, Italy

On 5 February 2015 at 06:44, Andreas Labres  wrote:

> Hi!
>
> Would it be O.K. to add route=running to the Wiki? There are many running
> courses (with signs) here in Austria:
>
>http://www.bergfex.at/sommer/oesterreich/touren/laufen/
>
> Currently this tag is used 262 times:
>
>http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=route%3Drunning
>
> and I'd like to add it here
>
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:route#Route_relations_in_use
>
> /al
>
> ___
> Tagging mailing list
> Tagging@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - temperature

[Tom Pfeifer]

Just a nitpicking detail, using 'degree' with the Kelvin scale was
deprecated in 1968 by the 13th General Conference on Weights and Measures.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelvin#Usage_conventions

Lukas Sommer wrote on 2015-02-05 08:50:

I suppose that in most countries of the world, °C is the common unit
for temperature in daily normal live. °F is only used in very few
countries. °K is only used in the scientific world, but not in daily
normal live.


Dave Swarthout wrote on 2015-02-05 01:53:
> For clarification, the Kelvin temperature scale is almost never used
> outside of a chemistry or physics lab. Absolute zero, the lowest possible 
temperature,
> is defined as 0 degrees Kelvin. That is approximately equal to minus 272 C 
and minus 460 F.
> Nobody working on OSM is likely to be specifying temperatures in degrees K.


___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Grave

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

a "cenotaph", the only actual example you provide, doesn't seem to qualify
as "grave" because "grave" is a place where someone is buried.

Are you aware of the tomb-tag? It is not exactly the same then "grave", but
it might be better suited for some stuff you seem to aim at with your
proposal.

cheers,
Martin
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] How to tag a cistern?

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2015-02-03 20:33 GMT+01:00 Paul Johnson :

>
>> It seems like an above-ground tank would be more prone to freezing, not
>> less. I have lived in two houses that had cisterns, although neither one
>> was still in use.
>>
>>
> In this climate, yes,
>


actually in all climates. What is varying is the depth you have to go to to
avoid freezing in winter, or if it's permafrost you don't have to care
because it will be always frozen anyway ;-)

cheers,
Martin
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] How to tag a cistern?

[Warin]

On 5/02/2015 11:12 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:


2015-02-03 20:33 GMT+01:00 Paul Johnson >:



It seems like an above-ground tank would be more prone to
freezing, not less. I have lived in two houses that had
cisterns, although neither one was still in use.


In this climate, yes,



actually in all climates. What is varying is the depth you have to go 
to to avoid freezing in winter, or if it's permafrost you don't have 
to care because it will be always frozen anyway ;-)


Here you dig down to get out of the heat. And the depth, as you say, 
varies as does the stable temperature. The depth variation is probably 
due to the soil/moisture variation. One book I've read says that there 
is a phase variation - if you pick the right depth you can have warmer 
in winter and cooler in summer.
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - temperature

[Warin]

On 5/02/2015 1:02 AM, fly wrote:

Am 04.02.2015 um 10:56 schrieb Kotya Karapetyan:

Hi,

+1 for the proposal as such.

I have suggestions for some parts of the proposal though.

1) I would discourage specification of the temperature without the
scale indication. I have never lived in the US but I see from the Web
that Americans like specifying temperature in degrees Fahrenheit
without mentioning it (the same way as we in Europe use centigrade
without underlying it). Taking into account the international nature
of the OSM community, I foresee a significant risk that the map will
get populated with invalid values. Warin is right about SI units, but
SI is not even strictly followed in the technical and scientific
community, not to mention the general public. Obviously, Americans in
general ignore it by using inches, miles and degrees Fahrenheit :) I
am afraid many people will not have heard about SI guidelines and will
not have read the wiki page in significant detail.

Therefore, for the sake of clarity, I suggest always specifying "F" or
"C" with the temperature value.

+1
Units for temperature are really wired and obviously Kelvin which I
would suspect to be the default is not really used in real live as
Celsius has the better scale for real life usage.


I'm inclined to drop the Kelvin. Unlikely to be used, anyone using the 
Kelvin can easily convert it to degrees Celsius.



2) I suggest clarifying the verbal specification of the temperature.
- Replace "chilled" with "cool" (by analogy with "warm") and also
because "chilled" actually assumes that I know that the object was
purportedly cooled down, which adds yet another uncertainty and is
usually not very relevant;
- remove the definition of "substantially colder" etc., because it
doesn't add any clarity. I agree that it is important to distinguish
between safe and unsafe situations, so let's just do that:


I put that in to cover the 'chilled water' that some might have or come 
across. Maybe more of a hot climate thing? I think the users may include 
it anyway so I covered it in the documentation.

freezing
cold — may be unsafe to handle
cool
warm
hot — may be unsafe to handle
boiling
adjustable — the object temperature can be changed by consumer/user
variable — the object temperature can vary on its own
ambient — the object always remains at ambient temperature (note that
this may include the object being "cold" and "warm", including being
unsafe to handle, depending on the ambient temperature; think about
water in Siberia rivers in January)

Only two values I could live with are cold and hot. Generally these
values are too ambiguous and an estimated value is much better.


I think I said this .. but here it is again with some more thoughts?

The proposal only tags 3 conditions;
adjustable - box outline around the originally rendered symbol - red at 
the top fading to blue at the bottom

hot - box outline around the originally rendered symbol - red
c*old -*box outline around the originally rendered symbol - blue

For the numerical data rendered as above for hot if over 55 C and blue 
if under 0 C ??



3) For the numeric specification, I suggest adding:
- "above"/"below" options
- "approximate" value
- range of temperatures (using above/below)

E.g.
temperature:circa = 80 C
temperature:above[:circa] = 300 C
temperature:below[:circa] = 1000 C

I would add this in the value like:

temperature = < 10 C
temperature = > 300 C


Nice idea. But;
How many object in OSM need that kind of information? If the usage is 
low then it probably wont be rendered.

How many data entry people will know the max/mins for an OSM object?
And how would it be rendered?

Possibly a better tag for this would be temperature_maximum= and 
temperature_minimum=
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - temperature

[johnw]

> 
> 
> I also think Americans, and I am one, need to get over the use of degrees F 
> and the old inch/foot/mile system. It's stupid and anachronistic to base the 
> units of length on the length of "the king's thumb", or whatever. Continuing 
> to make exceptions for them is only perpetuating their intransigence.
> 

+1  

Although many americans enjoy F for their daily lives (and I like the finer 
gradation in temperature in the “comfortable human zone (~50-100) “ - Americans 
are used to seeing and using C in scientific settings and international 
projects - so as long as the tag has proper documentation (and a proper label 
for the search term in  the renderers), then there should be no confusion in 
using Celsius. 

Even university libraries are switching to A4 paper to deal with international 
of documents (rather than relying on letter or legal). 

- An American adapting to Celsius in Japan

Javbw
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - temperature

[Bryce Nesbitt]

There are cases where an approximate temperature is more useful than a
single scalar number.
For example a drinking fountain may be "chilled", but not operating at a
single fixed temperature.
Similarly there's a big difference in a tropical climate between a building
with A/C and one without.
And a mountain hut with a fireplace, compared to one without.  Neither can
be expressed well as a temperature=.

In many cases what matters is the ability to warm or cool from ambient.
A/C give you the ability to
make a room cooler than ambient, but not hotter.  A fireplace the
opposite.  Thus perhaps instead:

heated=yes
cooled=no

Could apply to pools, spas, hotel rooms, water taps.
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] How to tag a cistern?

[Bryce Nesbitt]

The cistern is the storage tank.
If there is access to the cistern water, that would be some form of water
tap and should be separately tagged.

Similarly a deluge shower and it's cistern or holding tank are probably
better mapped as two objects.
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Reception Desk

[Warin]

Hi,

Request for comment on new tag 'amenity=reception_desk'

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dreception_desk

This comes out of the tag ON HT E tourism=camp_site WIKI PAGE which has 
a sub key of camp_site=reception.


As 'Receptions' are numerous outside of camp sites I think it is best to 
have them available for use under other things - like hotels. So the new 
tag.


'reception_desk' .. should separate it from other types of receivers .. 
like radio receivers.


Amenity is the best fit so amenity=reception_desk.

what do you think?





___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Draft Additions to camp_site

[Warin]

I have just proposed a new tag of amenity=reception_desk, this would 
obsolete the camp_site=reception as I think reception should be 
available for use in hotels, offices etc.  Just alereting the camp site 
people who may miss the new proposed key.



___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Reception Desk

[Paul Johnson]

This seems to have a bit of overlap with information to a large extent.
Most have tourism information for the area they're located and vicinity and
can provide a lot of the same stuff as a general tourism information office
would.  They just also rent space to park an RV (or even an RV or cabin),
or throw up a tent.
On Feb 5, 2015 8:07 PM, "Warin" <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Request for comment on new tag 'amenity=reception_desk'
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dreception_desk
>
> This comes out of the tag ON HT E tourism=camp_site WIKI PAGE which has a
> sub key of camp_site=reception.
>
> As 'Receptions' are numerous outside of camp sites I think it is best to
> have them available for use under other things - like hotels. So the new
> tag.
>
> 'reception_desk' .. should separate it from other types of receivers ..
> like radio receivers.
>
> Amenity is the best fit so amenity=reception_desk.
>
> what do you think?
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Tagging mailing list
> Tagging@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging