Re: [Tagging] Key:circuits added to power template

[François Lacombe]

Hi.

Nice job Polderrunner :)

2013/1/22 Volker Schmidt 

> 1) For a non-expert it is difficult to assess how many circuits a power
> line carries without having access to the operators' documentation.
>

Yes it is.
In the meantime, it's not mandatory to use this tag. If mappers don't have
information, they just don't define it.


>
> 2) I notice that the wiki page uses the term "cable" for overhead power
> distribution. According to my knowledge and Wikipedia (
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overhead_power_line) overhead power lines
> are implemented with "conductors". Cables (i.e. insulated conductors) are
> normally not used in overground transmission.
>

This suddenly reminds me a discussion about power=line vs power=cable :)



-- 
*François Lacombe*

francois dot lacombe At telecom-bretagne dot eu
http://www.infos-reseaux.com
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Re: [Tagging] Follow-up on Time Domains

[Andrew Errington]

On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 06:36:57 Serge Wroclawski wrote:
> > there have been some minor additions resulting in an updated spec.
>
> The one comment I have is that I'm not at all used to seeing two
> letter days of the week.
>
> I've always seen them as Mon, Tue, Wed, Thur, Fri, Sat, Sun.
>
> This is obviously cultural, but we want these to be as "natural" as
> possible.

Surely this is 'internal'.  That is, it's nice that some people can read Mo, 
Tu, We, etc., but for others, they are just 'coded' days of the week.  Date 
producers need to understand the meaning of Mo, Tu, etc. so that they can 
record them properly in the database, but data consumers need to translate 
these to something that can be displayed nicely.

For example, you may like to see Mon, Tue, Wed, etc., so for your renderer 
there should be a mapping table Mo->Mon Tu->Tue and so on.  For a Korean 
renderer there should be a table Mo->월 Tu->화 We->수, etc.

I think the *definition* for recording the opening times in the database 
should specify two-letter English abbreviations for days (and three-letter 
English abbreviations for months) and leave it to localised software to 
translate them appropriately.

Best wishes,

Andrew

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Re: [Tagging] Follow-up on Time Domains

[Serge Wroclawski]

On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 5:32 AM, Andrew Errington  wrote:

> Surely this is 'internal'.  That is, it's nice that some people can read Mo,
> Tu, We, etc., but for others, they are just 'coded' days of the week.  Date
> producers need to understand the meaning of Mo, Tu, etc. so that they can
> record them properly in the database, but data consumers need to translate
> these to something that can be displayed nicely.

Except why use abbreviations that no one uses elsewhere?

I've never seen two letter abbreviations for days of the week outside
OSM, in any computer system.

So why use a codification that no one else uses, to save a byte?

- Serge

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Re: [Tagging] Follow-up on Time Domains

[Martin Vonwald]

2013/1/22 Serge Wroclawski :
> On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 5:32 AM, Andrew Errington  
> wrote:
>> Surely this is 'internal'.  That is, it's nice that some people can read Mo,
>> Tu, We, etc., but for others, they are just 'coded' days of the week.  Date
>> producers need to understand the meaning of Mo, Tu, etc. so that they can
>> record them properly in the database, but data consumers need to translate
>> these to something that can be displayed nicely.
>
> Except why use abbreviations that no one uses elsewhere?

Ehm. I'm using it. And not only in OSM. And I doubt I'm the only one.


> I've never seen two letter abbreviations for days of the week outside
> OSM, in any computer system.

Just look into my calendar: two-character abbreviations.


> So why use a codification that no one else uses, to save a byte?

Because it is used? Even pretty often - at least in my perception.


regards,
Martin

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Re: [Tagging] Follow-up on Time Domains

[Richard Welty]

On 1/22/13 6:57 AM, Martin Vonwald wrote:

2013/1/22 Serge Wroclawski :

So why use a codification that no one else uses, to save a byte?

Because it is used? Even pretty often - at least in my perception.


i use it when i encode times for OSM because it's the documented
method in the wiki right now.  i'm sure a lot of folks have done the
same.

richard


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Re: [Tagging] Dispute concerning shrimp pond dikes

[doug brown]

Thanks all for the feedback you have provided on the tags for the shrimp pond 
dikes.  I hope to be able to implement many of these changes soon, but I have 
not been successful in using the JOSM Reverter plugin.  The OSM Wiki states:
"After installing the plugin and restarting JOSM, you should find a new menu 
item History -> Revert changeset."
I have updated to the latest JOSM version (version 5608) and downloaded the 
plugin and restarted JOSM multiple times, but no History menu item appears.  
Subsequent attempts to download the reverter plugin yield a message that all 
plugins are up to date.
I'm out of ideas on how to proceed.  Does anybody have any advice?
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 11:32:47 +0100
From: a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com
To: tagging@openstreetmap.org
CC: dougc...@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: [Tagging] Dispute concerning shrimp pond dikes


  

  
  
As I have not received my copy of this,
  I resend. Sorry for possible duplicates.

  

  On 2013-01-19 16:43, doug brown wrote :



  
  
In the past couple of years I have spent several tens of
  hours digitizing the shrimp pond dikes in San Blas Municipio,
  Nayarit, Mexico.  They are a significant feature on the local
  landscape and of importance because of the degradation they
  are causing in the mangrove forest ecosystems in which they
  are located.



I was much dismayed this past summer when all of these
  features were deleted from the OSM data base (changeset
  11807195), with the comment "Deleting vandalism, those are not
  roads".
  

Beside vandalism, the world (at large), is full of people telling
what not to do instead of what to do, which is obviously shorter. On
the British borderline (ways), you can read the note "admin_level
shouldn't be 4". He dared not zap them, fortunately.


  ...



2) Is there a way to roll back these changes (with
  modifications you may suggest to the tagging scheme) so that I
  don't lose all of the work I have invested?  If so, could you
  point me to some resources that will teach me how this can be
  accomplished?
  
  

  On 2013-01-19 17:03, Pieren wrote :

  

   You can do this yourself easily with JOSM
(and its reverter plugin) when you know the changeset(s)
number(s) (which seems to be your case). 

As I have only reverted additions before and not deletions, I gave
it a try.

No panic, those JOSM guys tell you they're reverting the set but I
knew they're only downloading the data in preparation for the real
update (and if you tell them things like that what to do is not
obvious or that  they are frightening, they reply that all user
interface "bugs" are closed with a WONTFIX).

Well, it lasted almost 5 min, but I've seen your data (impressive to
lose that, and indecent to zap !!!).

There are conflicts (differences between the locally recovered and
present OSM data for which you must decide which is right) and there
is quite a number of ways drawn going off the map limit, possibly a
consequence of node deletion.

Well, just in case you will not use JOSM but you can use a .osm
file, I saved that 1MB file and I can send it to you.  Because I
love shrimps too ;-)



Cheers, 




  

  André.

  










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Re: [Tagging] Dispute concerning shrimp pond dikes

[Martin Vonwald]

Try pressing CRTL+Shift+T. Does that open the reverter dialog?



2013/1/22 doug brown 

>  Thanks all for the feedback you have provided on the tags for the shrimp
> pond dikes.  I hope to be able to implement many of these changes soon, but
> I have not been successful in using the JOSM Reverter plugin.  The OSM Wiki
> states:
>
> "After installing the plugin and restarting JOSM, you should find a new
> menu item History -> Revert changeset."
>
> I have updated to the latest JOSM version (version 5608) and downloaded
> the plugin and restarted JOSM multiple times, but no History menu item
> appears.  Subsequent attempts to download the reverter plugin yield a
> message that all plugins are up to date.
>
> I'm out of ideas on how to proceed.  Does anybody have any advice?
>
> --
> Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 11:32:47 +0100
> From: a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com
> To: tagging@openstreetmap.org
> CC: dougc...@hotmail.com
> Subject: Re: [Tagging] Dispute concerning shrimp pond dikes
>
>
> As I have not received my copy of this, I resend. Sorry for possible
> duplicates.
>
> On 2013-01-19 16:43, doug brown wrote :
>
>  In the past couple of years I have spent several tens of hours
> digitizing the shrimp pond dikes in San Blas Municipio, Nayarit, Mexico.
>  They are a significant feature on the local landscape and of importance
> because of the degradation they are causing in the mangrove forest
> ecosystems in which they are located.
>
>  I was much dismayed this past summer when all of these features were
> deleted from the OSM data base (changeset 11807195), with the comment
> "Deleting vandalism, those are not roads".
>
> Beside vandalism, the world (at large), is full of people telling what not
> to do instead of what to do, which is obviously shorter. On the British
> borderline (ways), you can read the note "admin_level shouldn't be 4". He
> dared not zap them, fortunately.
>
> ...
>
>  2) Is there a way to roll back these changes (with modifications you may
> suggest to the tagging scheme) so that I don't lose all of the work I have
> invested?  If so, could you point me to some resources that will teach me
> how this can be accomplished?
>
> On 2013-01-19 17:03, Pieren wrote :
>
>  You can do this yourself easily with JOSM (and its reverter plugin) when
> you know the changeset(s) number(s) (which seems to be your case).
>
>  As I have only reverted additions before and not deletions, I gave it a
> try.
> No panic, those JOSM guys tell you they're reverting the set but I knew
> they're only downloading the data in preparation for the real update (and
> if you tell them things like that what to do is not obvious or that  they
> are frightening, they reply that all user interface "bugs" are closed with
> a WONTFIX).
> Well, it lasted almost 5 min, but I've seen your data (impressive to lose
> that, and indecent to zap !!!).
> There are conflicts (differences between the locally recovered and present
> OSM data for which you must decide which is right) and there is quite a
> number of ways drawn going off the map limit, possibly a consequence of
> node deletion.
> Well, just in case you will not use JOSM but you can use a .osm file, I
> saved that 1MB file and I can send it to you.  Because I love shrimps too
> ;-)
>
> Cheers,
>
>   André.
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
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> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] Dispute concerning shrimp pond dikes

[doug brown]

No, it doesn't work.  I had tried that idea earlier as the result of a 
discussion thread I had located via a google search.

Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 13:43:02 +0100
From: imagic@gmail.com
To: tagging@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Tagging] Dispute concerning shrimp pond dikes

Try pressing CRTL+Shift+T. Does that open the reverter dialog?



2013/1/22 doug brown 





Thanks all for the feedback you have provided on the tags for the shrimp pond 
dikes.  I hope to be able to implement many of these changes soon, but I have 
not been successful in using the JOSM Reverter plugin.  The OSM Wiki states:

"After installing the plugin and restarting JOSM, you should find a new menu 
item History -> Revert changeset."
I have updated to the latest JOSM version (version 5608) and downloaded the 
plugin and restarted JOSM multiple times, but no History menu item appears.  
Subsequent attempts to download the reverter plugin yield a message that all 
plugins are up to date.

I'm out of ideas on how to proceed.  Does anybody have any advice?
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 11:32:47 +0100
From: a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com

To: tagging@openstreetmap.org
CC: dougc...@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: [Tagging] Dispute concerning shrimp pond dikes



  

  
  
As I have not received my copy of this,
  I resend. Sorry for possible duplicates.

  

  On 2013-01-19 16:43, doug brown wrote :



  
  
In the past couple of years I have spent several tens of
  hours digitizing the shrimp pond dikes in San Blas Municipio,
  Nayarit, Mexico.  They are a significant feature on the local
  landscape and of importance because of the degradation they
  are causing in the mangrove forest ecosystems in which they
  are located.



I was much dismayed this past summer when all of these
  features were deleted from the OSM data base (changeset
  11807195), with the comment "Deleting vandalism, those are not
  roads".
  

Beside vandalism, the world (at large), is full of people telling
what not to do instead of what to do, which is obviously shorter. On
the British borderline (ways), you can read the note "admin_level
shouldn't be 4". He dared not zap them, fortunately.


  ...



2) Is there a way to roll back these changes (with
  modifications you may suggest to the tagging scheme) so that I
  don't lose all of the work I have invested?  If so, could you
  point me to some resources that will teach me how this can be
  accomplished?
  
  

  On 2013-01-19 17:03, Pieren wrote :

  

   You can do this yourself easily with JOSM
(and its reverter plugin) when you know the changeset(s)
number(s) (which seems to be your case). 

As I have only reverted additions before and not deletions, I gave
it a try.

No panic, those JOSM guys tell you they're reverting the set but I
knew they're only downloading the data in preparation for the real
update (and if you tell them things like that what to do is not
obvious or that  they are frightening, they reply that all user
interface "bugs" are closed with a WONTFIX).

Well, it lasted almost 5 min, but I've seen your data (impressive to
lose that, and indecent to zap !!!).

There are conflicts (differences between the locally recovered and
present OSM data for which you must decide which is right) and there
is quite a number of ways drawn going off the map limit, possibly a
consequence of node deletion.

Well, just in case you will not use JOSM but you can use a .osm
file, I saved that 1MB file and I can send it to you.  Because I
love shrimps too ;-)



Cheers, 




  

  André.

  










  

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Re: [Tagging] Dispute concerning shrimp pond dikes

[SomeoneElse]

doug brown wrote:


I have updated to the latest JOSM version (version 5608) and 
downloaded the plugin and restarted JOSM multiple times, but no 
History menu item appears.  Subsequent attempts to download the 
reverter plugin yield a message that all plugins are up to date.


In my experience after installing you have to restart JOSM after 
installing one more time than you'd expect (which you've obviously done) 
and then download some data (any data, anywhere) before you can select 
the item on the history menu.


If you're not seeing the menu at all you probably have some other issue 
though.


Cheers,
Andy

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Re: [Tagging] Dispute concerning shrimp pond dikes

[A.Pirard.Papou]

On 2013-01-22 13:37, doug brown wrote :
Thanks all for the feedback you have provided on the tags for the 
shrimp pond dikes.  I hope to be able to implement many of these 
changes soon, but I have not been successful in using the JOSM 
Reverter plugin.  The OSM Wiki states:


"After installing the plugin and restarting JOSM, you should find a 
new menu item History -> Revert changeset."


I have updated to the latest JOSM version (version 5608) and 
downloaded the plugin and restarted JOSM multiple times, but no 
History menu item appears.  Subsequent attempts to download the 
reverter plugin yield a message that all plugins are up to date.


I'm out of ideas on how to proceed.  Does anybody have any advice?
Try renaming your .josm application folder folder to force JOSM building 
a new one.
If you need renaming that folder back to use JOSM, you may try doing as 
I did: call the Reverter to load the erased data in an empty layer, save 
that data in a .osm file, rename your folder back and load the .osm file 
in your usual config to continue.
I have erased that file I was offering you and I can't predict the 
effect of my telling it to ignore the conflicts before saving. I suppose 
the conflicts raise again when trying to update OSM (cancel the update 
and open Windows>Conflict).


Good luck,

André.




Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 11:32:47 +0100
From: a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com
To: tagging@openstreetmap.org
CC: dougc...@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: [Tagging] Dispute concerning shrimp pond dikes

As I have not received my copy of this, I resend. Sorry for possible 
duplicates.


On 2013-01-19 16:43, doug brown wrote :

In the past couple of years I have spent several tens of hours
digitizing the shrimp pond dikes in San Blas Municipio, Nayarit,
Mexico.  They are a significant feature on the local landscape and
of importance because of the degradation they are causing in the
mangrove forest ecosystems in which they are located.

I was much dismayed this past summer when all of these features
were deleted from the OSM data base (changeset 11807195), with the
comment "Deleting vandalism, those are not roads".

Beside vandalism, the world (at large), is full of people telling what 
not to do instead of what to do, which is obviously shorter. On the 
British borderline (ways), you can read the note "admin_level 
shouldn't be 4". He dared not zap them, fortunately.


...

2) Is there a way to roll back these changes (with modifications
you may suggest to the tagging scheme) so that I don't lose all of
the work I have invested?  If so, could you point me to some
resources that will teach me how this can be accomplished?

On 2013-01-19 17:03, Pieren wrote :

You can do this yourself easily with JOSM (and its reverter
plugin) when you know the changeset(s) number(s) (which seems
to be your case). 

As I have only reverted additions before and not deletions, I gave it 
a try.
No panic, those JOSM guys tell you they're reverting the set but I 
knew they're only downloading the data in preparation for the real 
update (and if you tell them things like that what to do is not 
obvious or that  they are frightening, they reply that all user 
interface "bugs" are closed with a WONTFIX).
Well, it lasted almost 5 min, but I've seen your data (impressive to 
lose that, and indecent to zap !!!).
There are conflicts (differences between the locally recovered and 
present OSM data for which you must decide which is right) and there 
is quite a number of ways drawn going off the map limit, possibly a 
consequence of node deletion.
Well, just in case you will not use JOSM but you can use a .osm file, 
I saved that 1MB file and I can send it to you. Because I love shrimps 
too ;-)


Cheers,

Andr�.








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Re: [Tagging] Follow-up on Time Domains

[Peter Wendorff]

Am 22.01.2013 12:51, schrieb Serge Wroclawski:
Except why use abbreviations that no one uses elsewhere? I've never 
seen two letter abbreviations for days of the week outside OSM, in any 
computer system. So why use a codification that no one else uses, to 
save a byte?
Probably that's once more a German "problem", as in German days of the 
week are usually abbreviated to two letters. (Mo, Di, Mi, Do, Fr, Sa, So).
I'm not sure if I ever saw that (Mo, Tu, We, Th, Fr, Sa, Su) in English, 
while I'm sure I saw the three-letter variant (Mon, Tue, Wed, Thu, Fri, 
Sat, Sun).


regards
Peter


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Re: [Tagging] Dispute concerning shrimp pond dikes

[Philip Barnes]

What OS are you running? A fellow UK mapper was recently unable to revert using 
windows, however the reversion worked for me running on fedora linux.

Phil (trigpoint)
--

Sent from my Nokia N9



On 22/01/2013 13:35 A.Pirard.Papou wrote:

On 2013-01-22 13:37, doug brown wrote :

Thanks all for the feedback you have provided on the tags for the shrimp pond 
dikes.  I hope to be able to implement many of these changes soon, but I have 
not been successful in using the JOSM Reverter plugin.  The OSM Wiki states:


"After installing the plugin and restarting JOSM, you should find a new menu 
item History -> Revert changeset."


I have updated to the latest JOSM version (version 5608) and downloaded the 
plugin and restarted JOSM multiple times, but no History menu item appears.  
Subsequent attempts to download the reverter plugin yield a message that all 
plugins are up to date.


I'm out of ideas on how to proceed.  Does anybody have any advice?
Try renaming your .josm application folder folder to force JOSM building a new 
one.
If you need renaming that folder back to use JOSM, you may try doing as I did: 
call the Reverter to load the erased data in an empty layer, save that data in 
a .osm file, rename your folder back and load the .osm file in your usual 
config to continue.
I have erased that file I was offering you and I can't predict the effect of my 
telling it to ignore the conflicts before saving. I suppose the conflicts raise 
again when trying to update OSM (cancel the update and open Windows>Conflict).

Good luck,


André.



Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 11:32:47 +0100
From: a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com
To: tagging@openstreetmap.org
CC: dougc...@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: [Tagging] Dispute concerning shrimp pond dikes


As I have not received my copy of this, I resend. Sorry for possible duplicates.

On 2013-01-19 16:43, doug brown wrote :

In the past couple of years I have spent several tens of hours digitizing the 
shrimp pond dikes in San Blas Municipio, Nayarit, Mexico.  They are a 
significant feature on the local landscape and of importance because of the 
degradation they are causing in the mangrove forest ecosystems in which they 
are located.


I was much dismayed this past summer when all of these features were deleted 
from the OSM data base (changeset 11807195), with the comment "Deleting 
vandalism, those are not roads".
Beside vandalism, the world (at large), is full of people telling what not to 
do instead of what to do, which is obviously shorter. On the British borderline 
(ways), you can read the note "admin_level shouldn't be 4". He dared not zap 
them, fortunately.

...


2) Is there a way to roll back these changes (with modifications you may 
suggest to the tagging scheme) so that I don't lose all of the work I have 
invested?  If so, could you point me to some resources that will teach me how 
this can be accomplished?
On 2013-01-19 17:03, Pieren wrote :


You can do this yourself easily with JOSM (and its reverter plugin) when you 
know the changeset(s) number(s) (which seems to be your case).
As I have only reverted additions before and not deletions, I gave it a try.
No panic, those JOSM guys tell you they're reverting the set but I knew they're 
only downloading the data in preparation for the real update (and if you tell 
them things like that what to do is not obvious or that  they are frightening, 
they reply that all user interface "bugs" are closed with a WONTFIX).
Well, it lasted almost 5 min, but I've seen your data (impressive to lose that, 
and indecent to zap !!!).
There are conflicts (differences between the locally recovered and present OSM 
data for which you must decide which is right) and there is quite a number of 
ways drawn going off the map limit, possibly a consequence of node deletion.
Well, just in case you will not use JOSM but you can use a .osm file, I saved 
that 1MB file and I can send it to you.  Because I love shrimps too ;-)

Cheers,


Andr�.








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Re: [Tagging] Follow-up on Time Domains

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2013/1/22 Peter Wendorff :
> Am 22.01.2013 12:51, schrieb Serge Wroclawski:
>
>> Except why use abbreviations that no one uses elsewhere? I've never seen
>> two letter abbreviations for days of the week outside OSM, in any computer
>> system. So why use a codification that no one else uses, to save a byte?
>
> Probably that's once more a German "problem", as in German days of the week
> are usually abbreviated to two letters. (Mo, Di, Mi, Do, Fr, Sa, So).
> I'm not sure if I ever saw that (Mo, Tu, We, Th, Fr, Sa, Su) in English,
> while I'm sure I saw the three-letter variant (Mon, Tue, Wed, Thu, Fri, Sat,
> Sun).


+1 I'd guess so as well, but hey, what's the problem? With 2 letters
we will save a lot of space while remaining unambigous ;-)

cheers,
Martin

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Re: [Tagging] cycleway Tagging and Wiki-Page

[Elliott Plack]

In JOSM, there exists an option to use the share_lane tag. I'm going to use
that because it looks like sharrow should be merged into the description of
shared lane. 



-
http://about.me/elliottp | http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/ElliottPlack
--
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Re: [Tagging] Dispute concerning shrimp pond dikes

[doug brown]

I'm using Widows 7.

From: p...@trigpoint.me.uk
To: tagging@openstreetmap.org
CC: 
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 13:52:37 +
Subject: Re: [Tagging] Dispute concerning shrimp pond dikes



  
  
What OS are you running? A fellow UK mapper was recently unable to revert using 
windows, however the reversion worked for me running on fedora linux.
 
Phil (trigpoint)
--
 
Sent from my Nokia N9
 
On 22/01/2013 13:35 A.Pirard.Papou wrote:

On 2013-01-22 13:37, doug brown wrote :



  
  
Thanks all for the feedback you have provided on the tags
  for the shrimp pond dikes.  I hope to be able to implement
  many of these changes soon, but I have not been successful in
  using the JOSM Reverter plugin.  The OSM Wiki states:



"After installing the plugin and restarting JOSM, you
  should find a new menu item History -> Revert changeset."



I have updated to the latest JOSM version (version 5608)
  and downloaded the plugin and restarted JOSM multiple times,
  but no History menu item appears.  Subsequent attempts to
  download the reverter plugin yield a message that all plugins
  are up to date.



I'm out of ideas on how to proceed.  Does anybody have any
  advice?
  

Try renaming your .josm application folder folder to force JOSM
building a new one.

If you need renaming that folder back to use JOSM, you may try doing
as I did: call the Reverter to load the erased data in an empty
layer, save that data in a .osm file, rename your folder back and
load the .osm file in your usual config to continue.

I have erased that file I was offering you and I can't predict the
effect of my telling it to ignore the conflicts before saving. I
suppose the conflicts raise again when trying to update OSM (cancel
the update and open Windows>Conflict).



Good luck,




  

  André.

  




  

  Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 11:32:47 +0100

  From: a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com

  To: tagging@openstreetmap.org

  CC: dougc...@hotmail.com

  Subject: Re: [Tagging] Dispute concerning shrimp pond dikes

  

  As I have not received my copy
of this, I resend. Sorry for possible duplicates.



On 2013-01-19 16:43, doug brown wrote :

  
  


  In the past couple of years I have spent several tens
of hours digitizing the shrimp pond dikes in San Blas
Municipio, Nayarit, Mexico.  They are a significant
feature on the local landscape and of importance because
of the degradation they are causing in the mangrove
forest ecosystems in which they are located.
  

  
  I was much dismayed this past summer when all of
these features were deleted from the OSM data base
(changeset 11807195), with the comment "Deleting
vandalism, those are not roads".

  
  Beside vandalism, the world (at large), is full of people
  telling what not to do instead of what to do, which is
  obviously shorter. On the British borderline (ways), you can
  read the note "admin_level shouldn't be 4". He dared not zap
  them, fortunately.

  
...
  

  
  2) Is there a way to roll back these changes (with
modifications you may suggest to the tagging scheme) so
that I don't lose all of the work I have invested?  If
so, could you point me to some resources that will teach
me how this can be accomplished?



On 2013-01-19 17:03, Pieren wrote :



 You can do this yourself easily with JOSM (and
  its reverter plugin) when you know the changeset(s)
  number(s) (which seems to be your case). 
  
  As I have only reverted additions before and not deletions, I
  gave it a try.

  No panic, those JOSM guys tell you they're reverting the set
  but I knew they're only downloading the data in preparation
  for the real update (and if you tell them things like that
  what to do is not obvious or that  they are frightening, they
  reply that all user interface "bugs" are closed with a
  WONTFIX).

  Well, it lasted almost 5 min, but I've seen your data
  (impressive to lose that, and indecent to zap !!!).

  There are conflicts (differences between the locally recovered
  and present OSM data for which you must decide which is right)
  an

[Tagging] Relation -> housenumbers / villages without streetnames

[Damjan Gerl]

Hi to all!
I have a question for how to tagging the housenumber-relation of some 
villages (also some big) that don't have street names? How to associate 
the house numbers with village name in relation, something like 
associatedStreet without taking in consideration the street names, 
because there is not street names?
I want also to ask how the street name of such villages may be tagged? I 
see some practise to add the name=name-of-village to this type of 
streets (Or also name= Locality name-of-village). But I think that 
because this type of streets don't have any name, the tag name must be 
leaved empty and not populated with some invented names.


Sorry for my english...
Regards
Damjan G.

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Re: [Tagging] wiki building=hangar

[didier2020]

Le dimanche 20 janvier 2013 à 19:27 +0100, fly a écrit : 
> On 20/01/13 17:16, Philip Barnes wrote:
> > Aeroway is not intuitive, whilst I understand it I would not use it.
> > 
> > 
> > Building = hangar makes more sense to me. A hanger is a building for storing
> > aircraft but many are in use long after the airfield has gone. Their shape 
> > makes
> > them identifiable as hangars. Maybe a historic tag should be in there 
> > somewhere. 
> 
> There is nothing wrong about using both tags if used for aircrafts and delete
> the aeroway if the use changes.

so the french, italiano and deutch wiki are wrong when it's explain
building=hangar is for storing good?

i can modify the french wiki but not all others language

cheers
didier


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Re: [Tagging] Dispute concerning shrimp pond dikes

[SomeoneElse]

Philip Barnes wrote:


What OS are you running? A fellow UK mapper was recently unable to 
revert using windows, however the reversion worked for me running on 
fedora linux.



For completeness the error that I (the other UK mapper) was getting on 
that occasion was "java.lang.NullPointerException" within the rendering 
bit of JOSM (5608).


Cheers,
Andy

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Re: [Tagging] Relation -> housenumbers / villages without streetnames

[Pieren]

On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Damjan Gerl  wrote:

> I have a question for how to tagging the housenumber-relation of some
> villages (also some big) that don't have street names? How to associate the
> house numbers with village name in relation,

The relation associatedStreet is one method to link a house number
with its street. The other one is to simply add a tag "addr:street"
together with the "addr:housenumber".
In your case, I would simply add a tag "addr:city" to the node or
polygon where you already define the house number. (or possibly
"addr:hamler")
About streets without names, don't use the tag "name". Instead, check
the "noname=yes" tag :
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:noname

Pieren

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:addr

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Re: [Tagging] Follow-up on Time Domains

[Eckhart Wörner]

Hi Serge,

Am Dienstag, 22. Januar 2013, 06:51:29 schrieb Serge Wroclawski:
> Except why use abbreviations that no one uses elsewhere?
> 
> I've never seen two letter abbreviations for days of the week outside
> OSM, in any computer system.
> 
> So why use a codification that no one else uses, to save a byte?

nobody else?
Windows Vista: 
http://www.askdavetaylor.com/1-blog-pics/vista-date-time-pop-up.png
Windows 7: http://www.homeandlearn.co.uk/bc/win7/taskbar/changeDateTime.gif
Windows 8: 
http://www.liberiangeek.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/date_time_windows8_2_thumb.png

Eckhart

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Re: [Tagging] Relation -> housenumbers / villages without streetnames

[Damjan Gerl]

22.01.2013 - 17:01 - Pieren:

On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Damjan Gerl  wrote:


I have a question for how to tagging the housenumber-relation of some
villages (also some big) that don't have street names? How to associate the
house numbers with village name in relation,


The relation associatedStreet is one method to link a house number
with its street. The other one is to simply add a tag "addr:street"
together with the "addr:housenumber".
In your case, I would simply add a tag "addr:city" to the node or
polygon where you already define the house number. (or possibly
"addr:hamler")
About streets without names, don't use the tag "name". Instead, check
the "noname=yes" tag :
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:noname

Pieren

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:addr


Thank you!
Ok, so for the street with no name I use the tag "noname=yes".

Then for the house number I can use the addr:place tag (why I don't 
find/see it before?):


addr:housenumber=number
addr:place=locality_name

But if I want to use a relation to do this (don't want to type 
addr:place for every housenumber, because errors are possible!) what I 
can use? In the wiki page of the addr:place I find a mention "If number 
of house belongs to some existing object, we can create a relation and 
include to it houses with role house and object with role object." How 
to do this type of relation? Or maybe this have nothing to do with house 
numbers?


Damjan G.

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Re: [Tagging] Key:circuits added to power template

[Ole Nielsen]

On 22/01/2013 08:43, Volker Schmidt wrote:

1) For a non-expert it is difficult to assess how many circuits a power
line carries without having access to the operators' documentation.


Right, it will not always be possible to tag the number of circuits when 
a cable doesn't connect to an overhead power line. For underground 
cables at low and medium voltage such information is rarely publicly 
available (but then you probably don't even know that there is a cable 
there). For high voltage transmission grids the number of circuits is 
often indicated on grid maps of the TSO or documented in cable project 
descriptions.




2) I notice that the wiki page uses the term "cable" for overhead power
distribution. According to my knowledge and Wikipedia
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overhead_power_line) overhead power lines
are implemented with "conductors". Cables (i.e. insulated conductors)
are normally not used in overground transmission.


Again an unfortunate choice of name for a tag that happened in the early 
days of OSM (like station/sub_station). It should in my opinion have 
been conductors=*, not cables=*. Difficult to correct now since 'cables' 
is so widely used.


Ole

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Re: [Tagging] Dispute concerning shrimp pond dikes

[A.Pirard.Papou]

On 2013-01-22 13:37, doug brown wrote :
Thanks all for the feedback you have provided on the tags for the 
shrimp pond dikes.  I hope to be able to implement many of these 
changes soon, but I have not been successful in using the JOSM 
Reverter plugin.  The OSM Wiki states:


"After installing the plugin and restarting JOSM, you should find a 
new menu item History -> Revert changeset."


I have updated to the latest JOSM version (version 5608) and 
downloaded the plugin and restarted JOSM multiple times, but no 
History menu item appears.  Subsequent attempts to download the 
reverter plugin yield a message that all plugins are up to date.


I'm out of ideas on how to proceed.  Does anybody have any advice?

I have replayed the first part of Revert and stored the result here 
.

The file was saved after replying yes to "ignore 23 conflicts?".
I wanted to know if an attempt to update would raise the same conflicts.
It raised a JOSM crash.
I tried to delete the runaway ways and it crashed again intermittently.
It finally crashed when I reloaded the new file I was saving little by 
little.


My best advice is to create a new JOSM layer, /*Edit>merge selection*/ 
of as many pieces of data as you can and update OSM from that new layer.


It's doable, take heart.
Is JOSM usual to you?

That vandal should be sent to OSM jail for a few weeks.

Cheers,

André.


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Re: [Tagging] Is the difference between power station and sub station clear?

[Ole Nielsen]

On 22/01/2013 00:49, John Sturdy wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 7:33 PM, François Lacombe
>  wrote:
>> So we have the same opinion so far, that's great!
>
> And from me, to.
>
>> Just a question about the OSM sense of "deprecated".
>> Why can't we directly display a big message on each "never use this" 
tag to

>> inform mappers that they would not use this key/value any more?
>> => May administrators could build a template?
>
> Because there is no one point at which that could be displayed, just
> several different map editor programs, each maintained by different
> people.

Yes, there is unfortunately no simple 'delete' button for this. The tag 
should of course be removed completely from the Map Features page, the 
'station' feature page should be flagged with a big warning that the tag 
is deprecated. Links to it from other feature pages should also be 
removed. That's the easy part.
It will be necessary to create a ticket for each of the popular editors 
(JOSM, Potlatch2 etc) requesting "station" to be removed from the 
presets. This may take some time depending on the developers.


It may also be a good idea to post a message to "talk" list (not 
everybody subscribes to the tagging list) and to some of the more 
popular fora (especially the German forum).


> And also, there are several renderers (some with multiple stylesheets)
> which can each have different rules about what to display and what (by
> not having a rule to display it) to ignore.

In this case it seems to be a minor problem as 'station' and 
'sub_station' are rendered the same way in Mapnik and probably most 
other renderers as well. It will of course be a good idea to remove 
'station' from the mapnik stylesheet as that would cause the 'wrong' 
substations to disappear from the map and in that way discourage mappers 
from using that old tag. But it may be difficult to convince the 
stylesheet maintainers to do that as long as the tag is still common in 
the database.


Ole / polderrunner

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Re: [Tagging] wiki building=hangar

[Alberto]

>so the french, italiano and deutch wiki are wrong when it's explain
building=hangar is for storing good?
>i can modify the french wiki but not all others language
>cheers
>didier

To me they seem wrong compared to the English page. If you agree I can
modify the Italian page.
Bye
Alberto - Viking81


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Re: [Tagging] wiki building=hangar

[John F. Eldredge]

didier2020  wrote:

> Le dimanche 20 janvier 2013 à 19:27 +0100, fly a écrit : 
> > On 20/01/13 17:16, Philip Barnes wrote:
> > > Aeroway is not intuitive, whilst I understand it I would not use
> it.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Building = hangar makes more sense to me. A hanger is a building
> for storing
> > > aircraft but many are in use long after the airfield has gone.
> Their shape makes
> > > them identifiable as hangars. Maybe a historic tag should be in
> there somewhere. 
> > 
> > There is nothing wrong about using both tags if used for aircrafts
> and delete
> > the aeroway if the use changes.
> 
> so the french, italiano and deutch wiki are wrong when it's explain
> building=hangar is for storing good?
> 
> i can modify the french wiki but not all others language
> 
> cheers
> didier
> 
> 
> ___
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In English, a hangar is a particular type of building designed for storing 
aircraft, although it may subsequently be used for other types of storage, or 
even for a non-storage purpose.  Probably the most generic term for a storage 
building would be warehouse.

-- 
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to 
think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria


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Re: [Tagging] Follow-up on Time Domains

[Serge Wroclawski]

On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 11:43 AM, Eckhart Wörner  wrote:

> nobody else?
> Windows Vista: 
> http://www.askdavetaylor.com/1-blog-pics/vista-date-time-pop-up.png
> Windows 7: http://www.homeandlearn.co.uk/bc/win7/taskbar/changeDateTime.gif
> Windows 8: 
> http://www.liberiangeek.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/date_time_windows8_2_thumb.png

Calendars are different than written.

In calendars, one does things they don't do elsewhere. Many physical
calendars use a single letter, but in computer systems, two letters
are common because it makes it easier to come up with a column display
of the dates (ie 01-31).

That's quite different than written.

- Serge

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Re: [Tagging] Follow-up on Time Domains (Ubuntu Linux)

[dies38061]

On my Ubuntu Linux machine, the default calendar uses 3 letters for days of the 
week. --ceyockey


-Original Message-
>From: Eckhart Wörner 
>Sent: Jan 22, 2013 11:43 AM
>To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools" 
>Subject: Re: [Tagging] Follow-up on Time Domains
>
>Hi Serge,
>
>Am Dienstag, 22. Januar 2013, 06:51:29 schrieb Serge Wroclawski:
>> Except why use abbreviations that no one uses elsewhere?
>> 
>> I've never seen two letter abbreviations for days of the week outside
>> OSM, in any computer system.
>> 
>> So why use a codification that no one else uses, to save a byte?
>
>nobody else?
>Windows Vista: 
>http://www.askdavetaylor.com/1-blog-pics/vista-date-time-pop-up.png
>Windows 7: http://www.homeandlearn.co.uk/bc/win7/taskbar/changeDateTime.gif
>Windows 8: 
>http://www.liberiangeek.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/date_time_windows8_2_thumb.png
>
>Eckhart
>
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