Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Kerb
On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 05:32:54 +0100, Josh Doe wrote: On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 8:07 PM, Seth Golub wrote: Lowered was used in the original proposal, I'd actually prefer the term sloped. I think that makes quite a bit more sense than lowered. Opinions? I preferred lowered as slopped doesn't describe which way it slopes, it could actually easily slope up higher than usual. It'd be a crazy thing to do at a crossing - but then I have seen the council do some crazy thing's in the past. It could also be potentially mistaken for the rolled kerbs. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Kerb
On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 05:46:45 +0100, Josh Doe wrote: On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 9:52 PM, Steve Bennett wrote: On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 6:14 AM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: So: kerb=flush kerb=lowered kerb=rolled kerb=yes kerb=raised (ie, higher than normal, for a bus/tram stop...) Now, since people *will* use kerb=no, how should it be interpreted? I would say it would cover all of flush, lowered and rolled (ie, everything "better" than kerb=yes) It would be better to say kerb=no is equivalent to kerb=flush. It can't cover multiple kerb types, since each has different characteristics for wheelchairs, bicycles, and pedestrians. I could go with kerb=yes if others are on board, and I think I'd like to change lowered to sloped unless there are objections. -Josh The problem I have with using kerb=no for kerb=flush is that there is actually a kerb stone still - eg: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:P1210669.JPG. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Kerb
kerb=flush would mean that there is a kerbstone (with all the potential for localised puddling, misalignment, settling etc), whereas kerb=no would mean there's a continuous tarmac surface - the latter occurs either if someone is trying to make a very smooth transition between the road and a cycle track, or if the pavement/sidewalk is only delineated by a painted line (you get this on narrow village roads, sometimes) the normal UK term for a "lowered" kerb is "dropped" ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Kerb
2011-06-23 Seth Golub:
> It seems that kerb=flush is saying that there is no kerb.
As stated elsewhere, kerb=flush says that there is a kerbstone at the
same level as the surrounding surface. kerb=no says that there is no
kerbstone at all.
> "lowered" seems to mean "raised, but not very much". I imagine the
> intent was "lowered compared to the otherwise raised sidewalk", but all
> the other values are relative to the road.
The original intent of the proposal, as I read it, was:
lowered = "lowered compared to the normal kerb height"
raised = "raised compared to the normal kerb height"
For me as a German, this seems perfectly logical, because we use the
terms "abgesenkter Bordstein" ("lowered kerb") and "erhöhter Bordstein"
("raised kerb") in exactly that way.
Now, it seems that some native speakers (not all, though [1]) consider
normal kerbs "raised", and are completely confused about the originally
suggested values as a consequence.
-- Tobias Knerr
[1]
http://www.southglos.gov.uk/NR/exeres/efb6adfb-b0b4-4f00-a185-73f4dcf5197d
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Kerb
Robert Naylor wrote: > The problem I have with using kerb=no for kerb=flush is that there is > > actually a kerb stone still - eg: > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:P1210669.JPG. In the USA, rural roads, motorways, and some suburban roads have no curb at all; you simply have a point at which the pavement stops, often with a graveled shoulder extending a little further. This situation would logically be mapped as kerb=no. I have seen flush curbs as well, presumably where a road has been repaved multiple times without milling away the old pavement. From a purely functional view, this is the same thing as having no curb, and is likely to be paved over the next time the road is resurfaced. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com "Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Kerb
On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 1:49 PM, John F. Eldredge wrote: > often with a graveled shoulder extending a little further. This situation > would logically be mapped as kerb=no. I have seen flush curbs as well, > presumably where a road has been repaved multiple times without milling away > the old pavement. From a purely functional view, this is the same thing as > having no curb, and is likely to be paved over the next time the road is > resurfaced. > > hmmm, very confusing. Finally, what is the difference between flush kerbs and shoulders ? Pieren ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Kerb
On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 10:26 AM, Pieren wrote: > On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 1:49 PM, John F. Eldredge wrote: > >> often with a graveled shoulder extending a little further. This >> situation would logically be mapped as kerb=no. I have seen flush curbs as >> well, presumably where a road has been repaved multiple times without >> milling away the old pavement. From a purely functional view, this is the >> same thing as having no curb, and is likely to be paved over the next time >> the road is resurfaced. >> >> > hmmm, very confusing. Finally, what is the difference between flush kerbs > and shoulders ? > A shoulder is the area next to the outer travel lanes. This can be paved or unpaved. On rural roads in the US the shoulder typically consists of gravel and it's unlikely there are any curbs. On other roads it is typically paved, and can be anywhere from a few inches to the width of a travel lane, such that emergency vehicles can it as a travel lane. If a kerb is present, the shoulder terminates at the kerb. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder_%28road%29 Kerbs are the raised edges of the roadway meant to channel stormwater, among other purposes. In this sense it is a bit incorrect to say the kerb is flush, but rather saying kerb=flush indicates that at the location where a kerb is normally present (implying a change in height), instead there is no change. This can either be accomplished by raising the crossing to the level of the sidewalk as depicted here: http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/sidewalk2/figure812.jpg Or by "cutting" through a kerb so no change in height is experienced at all (often at medians/islands): http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/sidewalk2/figure084.jpg http://streetswiki.wikispaces.com/file/view/ped-refuge-island-santacruz-burden.jpg/129479409/ped-refuge-island-santacruz-burden.jpg Interestingly I came across the "Kassel kerb", which guides the tires of stopping buses for an almost level entry (low floor buses): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kassel_kerb By the way, if you want to know more about sidewalks, curbs, crossings, etc, the US Federal Highway Administration has a comprehensive document. It would be interesting to know if transportation agencies from other countries have this kind of document: http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/sidewalk2/ -Josh ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
