Re: [Tagging] Builders' Merchants -> Timber Merchant

[ael]

> would be useful. When I have a moment, I will try and come up with
> something better than yard.

A thesaurus didn't throw up anything compelling. Instead I became
convinced that the best subtag is actually "merchant".

shop=merchant
  merchant = timber|building-supplies|agricultural|garden|...

I realise that "merchant" is a less familiar word in some parts of the
world, but the values should make it obvious. I suppose that
"distributer" might be an alternative but I don't think it is the same.

Craig's shop=industrial_supplies also seems to be to be valueable and
to capture something a bit different, so I suggest that also be
introduced. I guess there is some risk of overlap, but I don't see why
would be a problem.

shop=industrial_supplies
 industrial_supplies = chemical|construction|metal|...

Reactions? Should I (or someone else) put something on the wiki?
At least if we have reached a consensus...

ael

PS. Yes I suppose one could argue that every shop is a merchant, and
it should be the main tag with shop as a subtag, but we have to live 
with the status quo.


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Re: [Tagging] Builders' Merchants -> Timber Merchant

[John Smith]

On 25 June 2010 19:47, ael  wrote:
> A thesaurus didn't throw up anything compelling. Instead I became
> convinced that the best subtag is actually "merchant".

How is that better than shop=supplies, all shop keepers are merchants
whom sells supplies (or services)...

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[Tagging] tagging, ontologies and repositories in openstreetmap.org

[Alexander Garcia Castro]

Tagging opens a door for participation; it has also been acknowledge the
symbiosis between tagging and ontologies, how is tagging in
openstreetmap.org making use of semantics? how is tagging in
openstreetmap.org living with ontologies? what are the semantic aspects in
openstreetmap.org? how is openstreetmap.org delivering linked data and
adding value so that knowledge can be discovered via interoperable resources
that are complementary to openstreetmap.org? These are aspects we would like
to cover and hear from the openstreetmap.org community at SERES.


==

CALL FOR PAPERS
==
1st International Workshop on Semantic Repositories for the Web (SERES 2010)

http://www.ontologydynamics.org/od/index.php/seres2010/


at the 9th International Semantic Web Conference

  http://iswc2010.semanticweb.org

November 7, 2010, in Shanghai, China
==



Ontologies and Linked Data vocabularies are being actively developed and
used by numerous applications. Several domains are making their vocabularies
available for others to reuse. In addition, good practices when developing
ontologies are often followed, particularly for producing reusable modules.
The Semantic Web is a modular and highly federated environment of reusable
knowledge sources; these provide the meaning so that SW applications change
our experience of the web. Within this context, the need for repositories
delivering the added value that makes the SW a concrete step beyond our
current experience of the web is palpable. SERES addresses issues around
semantic repositories within the context of the SW.



The number of ontologies being built and made available for reuse has
increased steadily in the last few years. Semantic Web search engines such
as Swoogle  and
Watson currently
index several tens of thousands of them; there are also systems specifically
designed to support the publication of ontologies, e.g.
Cupboard
, NCBO Bioportal , and
ONKI.
Some tools also support editing features, e.g.
Neologism
, Knoo dl . While being a foundation
for the Semantic Web, this new environment where ontologies are shared and
interlinked online also poses new challenges; fostering thus a number of
research projects aiming to understand, amongst others, ontology reuse,
storage, publication, versioning, quality control, evaluation, retrieval and
modularization. For instance, as part of the EU NeOn
project new
tools supporting Knowledge Engineering in the age of “networked ontologies”
have been developed, while in the EU OASIS project approaches from software
engineering and formalization are now also being applied to inter-connect
ontologies. Moreover, despite initial efforts, ontology repositories are
hardly interoperable *amongst themselves*. Although sharing similar aims
(providing easy access to Semantic Web resources), they diverge in the
methods and techniques employed for gathering these documents and making
them available; each interprets and uses metadata in a different manner.
Furthermore, many features are still poorly supported; for instance,
modularization, versioning, and the relationship between ontology
repositories and ontology engineering environments (editors) to support the
entire ontology lifecycle.



By the same token, there are several domains making available knowledge
resources; for instance, digital libraries such as Pubmed Central offer a
large collection of biomedical abstracts and, in some cases, open access to
the full document. Some researchers are starting to bridge the gap between
clinical and experimental data and literature; such connection is being
built via ontologies, some approaches have had BioPortal as their ontology
repository. Linked Data is also being explored as a means for publishers to
expose their content. Knowledge management over documents is actively aiming
to make real the notion of self-descriptiveness; being this intrinsically
related to various resources over the web providing meaning for atomic
component in documents –words, tables, figures, maps, etc. In order for
these systems to be successful, it is necessary to provide a forum for
researchers and developers to discuss features and exchange ideas on the
realization of repositories providing semantics. In addition, it is now
critical to achieve interoperability *between* these repositories, through
common interfaces, standard metadata formats, etc. SERES10 intends to
provide such a forum.



*Questions addressed by SERES10:*

·How can semantic repositories support the realization of
the SW?

·Semantic repositories, ontology repositories, knowledge
repositorie

Re: [Tagging] Builders' Merchants -> Timber Merchant

[Liz]

On Fri, 25 Jun 2010, ael wrote:
> > would be useful. When I have a moment, I will try and come up with
> > something better than yard.
> 
> A thesaurus didn't throw up anything compelling. Instead I became
> convinced that the best subtag is actually "merchant".
> 
> shop=merchant
>   merchant = timber|building-supplies|agricultural|garden|...
i don't see how shop and merchant are different
shop has been mostly used to describe retail trade
we are looking at tags suitable for commercial or industrial sites
sites which sell stuff which is too large to carry out of the 
shop
 (easily, one person)
sites which sell to tradesmen (or women)


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[Tagging] 'name' variation tags standardisation

[y...@o2.pl]

Now there is a good trend to use colon in key names. Maybe we should
move these tags below?

int_name -> name:international
nat_name -> name:national
reg_name -> name:regional
loc_name -> name:local
old_name -> name:old
alt_name -> name:alt or name:alternative
official_name -> name:official

But then we can have structures like that: name:official:de/ru/etc.

What do you think about it?

--
Paweł Marynowski
User:Yarl

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Re: [Tagging] 'name' variation tags standardisation

[Craig Wallace]

On 25/06/2010 13:04, y...@o2.pl wrote:

Now there is a good trend to use colon in key names. Maybe we should
move these tags below?

int_name ->  name:international
nat_name ->  name:national
reg_name ->  name:regional
loc_name ->  name:local
old_name ->  name:old
alt_name ->  name:alt or name:alternative
official_name ->  name:official

But then we can have structures like that: name:official:de/ru/etc.

What do you think about it?


But how do you know whether the part after the colon is a language code 
or a type of name?

eg "alt" is the ISO 639-2 code for Southern Altai.
This will make things more complicated for data processors, eg how do 
you just extract all names that have a name in more than one language?


Craig

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Re: [Tagging] 'name' variation tags standardisation

[M∡rtin Koppenhoefer]

2010/6/25 Craig Wallace :

>> int_name ->  name:international
>> nat_name ->  name:national
>> reg_name ->  name:regional
>> loc_name ->  name:local
>> old_name ->  name:old
>> alt_name ->  name:alt or name:alternative
>> official_name ->  name:official
>>
>> But then we can have structures like that: name:official:de/ru/etc.
>>
>> What do you think about it?
>
> But how do you know whether the part after the colon is a language code or a
> type of name?


the set of types would have to be unified and stable and instead of
alt there should be name:alternative (old doesn't seem to have this
problem (yet) but maybe "historic" would be a better option. If we
require at least 4 digits for the types this task could also be easy.

cheers,
Martin

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Re: [Tagging] 'name' variation tags standardisation

[Alex Mauer]

On 06/25/2010 10:24 AM, Craig Wallace wrote:
> But how do you know whether the part after the colon is a language code
> or a type of name?
> eg "alt" is the ISO 639-2 code for Southern Altai.

Does openstreetmap use the ISO 639-2 codes?  It looks to me like it uses
ISO 639-1.

–Alex Mauer “hawke”



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Re: [Tagging] 'name' variation tags standardisation

[John Smith]

On 26 June 2010 01:36, Alex Mauer  wrote:
> On 06/25/2010 10:24 AM, Craig Wallace wrote:
>> But how do you know whether the part after the colon is a language code
>> or a type of name?
>> eg "alt" is the ISO 639-2 code for Southern Altai.
>
> Does openstreetmap use the ISO 639-2 codes?  It looks to me like it uses
> ISO 639-1.

I've used name:aus for some native sites...

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Re: [Tagging] 'name' variation tags standardisation

[Craig Wallace]

On 25/06/2010 16:36, Alex Mauer wrote:

On 06/25/2010 10:24 AM, Craig Wallace wrote:

But how do you know whether the part after the colon is a language code
or a type of name?
eg "alt" is the ISO 639-2 code for Southern Altai.


Does openstreetmap use the ISO 639-2 codes?  It looks to me like it uses
ISO 639-1.


From the multilingual names page: 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names


"People seem to generally agree on using name:code=*  where code is a 
language's ISO 639-1 code, or ISO 639-2 if an ISO 639-1 code doesn't exist."


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Re: [Tagging] 'name' variation tags standardisation

[Alex Mauer]

On 06/25/2010 10:41 AM, Craig Wallace wrote:
> From the multilingual names page:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names
> 
> "People seem to generally agree on using name:code=*  where code is a
> language's ISO 639-1 code, or ISO 639-2 if an ISO 639-1 code doesn't
> exist."

Ah, thanks. I was looking at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name

–Alex Mauer “hawke”



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Re: [Tagging] 'name' variation tags standardisation

[Vincent Pottier]

Le 25/06/2010 14:04, y...@o2.pl a écrit :

Now there is a good trend to use colon in key names. Maybe we should
move these tags below?

int_name ->  name:international
nat_name ->  name:national
reg_name ->  name:regional
loc_name ->  name:local
old_name ->  name:old
alt_name ->  name:alt or name:alternative
official_name ->  name:official

But then we can have structures like that: name:official:de/ru/etc.

What do you think about it?
   

with the observations made by other people I am very in favour of it !
--
FrViPofm

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Re: [Tagging] 'name' variation tags standardisation

[Cartinus]

As was pointed out recently in the thread about *_link tagging: If you want to 
change something about existing widely used tags you have to provide a 
compelling reason.

So what problem are you trying to solve with this tag renaming?

You mention that then we can have tags like: name:official:de. How is that 
better than official_name:de?

I'm afraid most people don't think "It looks better." is a compelling reason.

-- 
m.v.g.,
Cartinus

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Re: [Tagging] 'name' variation tags standardisation

[M∡rtin Koppenhoefer]

2010/6/25 Cartinus :
> I'm afraid most people don't think "It looks better." is a compelling reason.


actually I do think that "looks better" is a good reason. It follows
some logics that makes mapping easier for everybody.

cheers,
Martin

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Re: [Tagging] 'name' variation tags standardisation

[y...@o2.pl]

2010/6/25 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer :
> 2010/6/25 Cartinus :
>> I'm afraid most people don't think "It looks better." is a compelling reason.
>
> actually I do think that "looks better" is a good reason. It follows
> some logics that makes mapping easier for everybody.

Definitely, when I started mapping I had to check at wiki what is
"loc_name". With "name:local" I don't have problems like that.

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Re: [Tagging] 'name' variation tags standardisation

[Pieren]

On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 9:23 PM, y...@o2.pl  wrote:

>
> Definitely, when I started mapping I had to check at wiki what is
> "loc_name". With "name:local" I don't have problems like that.
>
>
>
Because the first time you discover that a simple thing as a name can be
taggued with seven different tags, you don't have to read the wiki when you
replace '_' by ':'   ...

Pieren
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Re: [Tagging] 'name' variation tags standardisation

[y...@o2.pl]

2010/6/25 Pieren :
> Because the first time you discover that a simple thing as a name can be
> taggued with seven different tags, you don't have to read the wiki when you
> replace '_' by ':'   ...

I just wanted to say that names like 'loc' or 'nat' are bit enigmatic.

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Re: [Tagging] Builders' Merchants -> Timber Merchant

[ael]

On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 09:42:38PM +1000, Liz wrote:
> > shop=merchant
> >   merchant = timber|building-supplies|agricultural|garden|...
> i don't see how shop and merchant are different
> shop has been mostly used to describe retail trade
> we are looking at tags suitable for commercial or industrial sites
>   sites which sell stuff which is too large to carry out of the 
> shop
>(easily, one person)
>   sites which sell to tradesmen (or women)

I guess people replied before reading my PS :-)

One could argue for supplies or merchant as the main tag and shop as a
subtag, as I said there.  But I assume that is too radical. Supplies
is so general that it does not seem to offer any constraint. Merchant
in everyday use (apart from merchant banker) does suggest the sort of 
place under discussion. But perhaps not to everyone judging by the reactions so
far.

The only other suggestion I have is to use "variant" as the subtag, but
I begin to wonder if that is useful since it doesn't suggest any
particular class.

So
shop=variant
 variant=building_supplies|timber_yard|agricultural|...

I think this might be marginally better than supplies in that it does
suggest that we are not dealing with a normal shop.

Can someone come up with a better idea. Please :-)

ael

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Re: [Tagging] 'name' variation tags standardisation

[Tobias Knerr]

y...@o2.pl:
> Now there is a good trend to use colon in key names. Maybe we should
> move these tags below?
> 
> int_name -> name:international
> [...]
> alt_name -> name:alt or name:alternative
> official_name -> name:official
> 
> But then we can have structures like that: name:official:de/ru/etc.

I don't think that we should do that. With alt_name:de, it's clear that
the placement of "alt" and "de" is significant. With name:alt:de, it
could reasonably be expected that the suffixes are commutative: Are
name:de:alt and name:alt:de equivalent?

Oh, and personally, I even like "official_name" (which is the natural
word order) better than name:official.

Tobias Knerr

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Re: [Tagging] Builders' Merchants -> Timber Merchant

[John Smith]

On 26 June 2010 08:31, ael  wrote:
> Can someone come up with a better idea. Please :-)

You haven't really explained what was so wrong with shop=supplies,
considering it's intended to be only used with a subtag giving it
context it seems perfectly fine to me.

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Re: [Tagging] 'name' variation tags standardisation

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 8:00 AM, Tobias Knerr  wrote:

> y...@o2.pl:
> > Now there is a good trend to use colon in key names. Maybe we should
> > move these tags below?
> >
> > int_name -> name:international
> > [...]
> > alt_name -> name:alt or name:alternative
> > official_name -> name:official
> >
> > But then we can have structures like that: name:official:de/ru/etc.
>
> I don't think that we should do that. With alt_name:de, it's clear that
> the placement of "alt" and "de" is significant. With name:alt:de, it
> could reasonably be expected that the suffixes are commutative: Are
> name:de:alt and name:alt:de equivalent?
>

name:alt:de is the German translation of the alternate name
name:de:alt is an alternate German name
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Re: [Tagging] 'name' variation tags standardisation

[John Smith]

On 26 June 2010 14:18, Eugene Alvin Villar  wrote:
> name:alt:de is the German translation of the alternate name
> name:de:alt is an alternate German name

While I agree with using colons for this, rather than underscores, I
don't think it would be good to use 2 or 3 letter abbreviations, as
others have noted this could be an issue for ISO 639-2.

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