Re: [Sursound] The Sound of Vision (Mirage-sonics?)

[Richard Dobson]

On 06/06/2012 13:57, Michael Chapman wrote:

Gregory, R.L., (1996) "Is your green as green as mine?" in The Sunday
Times, Science section 8th September 1996

Dr Peter Lennox


At least one can describe green-greener-greenest, or loud-
louder-loudest, or high-pitch---higher-pitch--- ...
but colour is really an odd one:
You can only describe 'green' as 'green', but what I see as
green you may 'see' as red ... but we both call it green.

There is -as far as I know- no relative way of describing
colours   .  .  .




There is the phenomenon of the complementary colour (q.v.) which has as 
far as I can tell no counterpart in audio.  Skilled artists can, when 
presented with a colour, create its complementary without reference to a 
colour wheeel.


One simple way in which colours can be related is via a grey-scale 
conversion, as in a simple monochrome photograph. There the relative 
intensity of the colours (red = dark, for example) is observed. Such 
pictures are accepted as being entirely natural and reasonable. Maybe 
that is really  a long-established form of cultural entrainment? In 
contrast, when we see a full-colour image, we may identify the colours, 
but be uncertain which are the brighter.


I find it useful in mnay cases to relate colour vision to auditory 
"perfect pitch". People with the latter recognise the "absolute" pitch 
of a note, but may suffer from octave ambiguities, such that they are 
not sure whether one tone is above or below another - hence sometimes 
intervals are mis-identified. Most people have only "relative" pitch, 
which supports correct interval recognition, but not the direct 
recognition of pitches. Put another way: most listeners hear music as if 
in monochrome - good interval recognition (just as well when music is so 
often transposed in performance) but little or no certainty regarding 
exact pitch. Transposition is another auditory phenomenon with no 
natural direct analogue in vision. In music, transposition may go 
entirely unnoticed - national anthems can and are played in any key - 
but no such process seems to exist for vision.


Thus sound and ( especially, colour) vision  present very different 
modes of cognition; little wonder they demand mostly separate and 
specialised parts of the brain for their processing.


Richard Dobson
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound

Re: [Sursound] Ambisonia?

[Bruce Wiggins]

Great news that Ambisonia is up and running again :-)

Just clicked the 'random page' link on the Ambisonia wiki and got this page:
http://www.ambisonia.com/wiki/index.php/How_you_can_Earn_Much_more_Cash_As_an_Adult_Webcam_Girl


Perhaps some cleaning out is needed ;-)

cheers

Dr Bruce Wiggins
Creative Technologies Research Group
http://www.derby.ac.uk/staff-search/dr-bruce-wiggins
Lecturer in Electronics and Sound
http://www.derby.ac.uk/eee
http://www.derby.ac.uk/music


On 4 June 2012 11:58, etienne deleflie  wrote:

> Hi Daniel, all,
>
> As you know, thanks to the University of York's generosity -- organised by
> Dave M and administered by Oliver Larkin, ambisonia.com is now back
> online,
> serving pages from the UK (instead of far-away Australia). The migration
> has been a bit of a mammoth task mainly driven by Marc Lavallée's voluntary
> efforts.
>
> the current status is:
>
> - all downloads work
> - uploads are not working (we will announce when fixed)
> - registrations are turned off (until some cleanup is done)
> - wiki works (but is more secured -- now requires logging in to edit)
> - Podcasts are yet to be fixed
>
> BTW ... Marc is now the official maintainer. thanks Marc ... and thanks
> again Dave and Oli.
>
> Etienne
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 1:42 AM, Daniel Courville
> wrote:
>
> > What's the official state of Ambisonia? I added a torrent yesterday and
> it
> > seems to be working, but I don't recall an official announcement beside
> > the one that Dave made in York stating that it would be online soon.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Daniel
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Sursound mailing list
> > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
> >
>
>
>
> --
> http://etiennedeleflie.net
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20120604/fc0985a6/attachment.html
> >
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20120611/4ee51edc/attachment.html>
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound

Re: [Sursound] Ambisonia?

[Bruce Wiggins]

I have removed the content on that page, by the way.  I'm not sure how to
delete the page.

cheers

Dr Bruce Wiggins
Creative Technologies Research Group
http://www.derby.ac.uk/staff-search/dr-bruce-wiggins
Lecturer in Electronics and Sound
http://www.derby.ac.uk/eee
http://www.derby.ac.uk/music


On 11 June 2012 12:38, Bruce Wiggins  wrote:

> Great news that Ambisonia is up and running again :-)
>
> Just clicked the 'random page' link on the Ambisonia wiki and got this
> page:
>
> http://www.ambisonia.com/wiki/index.php/How_you_can_Earn_Much_more_Cash_As_an_Adult_Webcam_Girl
>
>
> Perhaps some cleaning out is needed ;-)
>
> cheers
>
> Dr Bruce Wiggins
> Creative Technologies Research Group
> http://www.derby.ac.uk/staff-search/dr-bruce-wiggins
> Lecturer in Electronics and Sound
> http://www.derby.ac.uk/eee
> http://www.derby.ac.uk/music
>
>
>
> On 4 June 2012 11:58, etienne deleflie  wrote:
>
>> Hi Daniel, all,
>>
>> As you know, thanks to the University of York's generosity -- organised by
>> Dave M and administered by Oliver Larkin, ambisonia.com is now back
>> online,
>> serving pages from the UK (instead of far-away Australia). The migration
>> has been a bit of a mammoth task mainly driven by Marc Lavallée's
>> voluntary
>> efforts.
>>
>> the current status is:
>>
>> - all downloads work
>> - uploads are not working (we will announce when fixed)
>> - registrations are turned off (until some cleanup is done)
>> - wiki works (but is more secured -- now requires logging in to edit)
>> - Podcasts are yet to be fixed
>>
>> BTW ... Marc is now the official maintainer. thanks Marc ... and thanks
>> again Dave and Oli.
>>
>> Etienne
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 1:42 AM, Daniel Courville
>> wrote:
>>
>> > What's the official state of Ambisonia? I added a torrent yesterday and
>> it
>> > seems to be working, but I don't recall an official announcement beside
>> > the one that Dave made in York stating that it would be online soon.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > Daniel
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Sursound mailing list
>> > Sursound@music.vt.edu
>> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://etiennedeleflie.net
>> -- next part --
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <
>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20120604/fc0985a6/attachment.html
>> >
>> ___
>> Sursound mailing list
>> Sursound@music.vt.edu
>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
>>
>
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20120611/c6d49f29/attachment.html>
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound

[Sursound] Adult_Webcam_Girl

[Dave Hunt]

Hi,

Shame. How are those poor adult webcam girls supposed to feed their  
children ?


Ciao,

Dave


Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 12:40:24 +0100
From: Bruce Wiggins 

I have removed the content on that page, by the way.  I'm not sure  
how to

delete the page.

cheers

Dr Bruce Wiggins
Creative Technologies Research Group
http://www.derby.ac.uk/staff-search/dr-bruce-wiggins
Lecturer in Electronics and Sound
http://www.derby.ac.uk/eee
http://www.derby.ac.uk/music


On 11 June 2012 12:38, Bruce Wiggins  wrote:


Great news that Ambisonia is up and running again :-)

Just clicked the 'random page' link on the Ambisonia wiki and got  
this

page:

http://www.ambisonia.com/wiki/index.php/ 
How_you_can_Earn_Much_more_Cash_As_an_Adult_Webcam_Girl



Perhaps some cleaning out is needed ;-)

cheers

Dr Bruce Wiggins
Creative Technologies Research Group
http://www.derby.ac.uk/staff-search/dr-bruce-wiggins
Lecturer in Electronics and Sound
http://www.derby.ac.uk/eee
http://www.derby.ac.uk/music



___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound

Re: [Sursound] Adult_Webcam_Girl

[Joseph Anderson]

très difficile



On 11 Jun 2012, at 5:22 pm, Dave Hunt wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Shame. How are those poor adult webcam girls supposed to feed their children ?
> 
> Ciao,
> 
> Dave
> 
>> Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 12:40:24 +0100
>> From: Bruce Wiggins 
>> 
>> I have removed the content on that page, by the way.  I'm not sure how to
>> delete the page.
>> 
>> cheers
>> 
>> Dr Bruce Wiggins
>> Creative Technologies Research Group
>> http://www.derby.ac.uk/staff-search/dr-bruce-wiggins
>> Lecturer in Electronics and Sound
>> http://www.derby.ac.uk/eee
>> http://www.derby.ac.uk/music
>> 
>> 
>> On 11 June 2012 12:38, Bruce Wiggins  wrote:
>> 
>>> Great news that Ambisonia is up and running again :-)
>>> 
>>> Just clicked the 'random page' link on the Ambisonia wiki and got this
>>> page:
>>> 
>>> http://www.ambisonia.com/wiki/index.php/How_you_can_Earn_Much_more_Cash_As_an_Adult_Webcam_Girl
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Perhaps some cleaning out is needed ;-)
>>> 
>>> cheers
>>> 
>>> Dr Bruce Wiggins
>>> Creative Technologies Research Group
>>> http://www.derby.ac.uk/staff-search/dr-bruce-wiggins
>>> Lecturer in Electronics and Sound
>>> http://www.derby.ac.uk/eee
>>> http://www.derby.ac.uk/music
>>> 
> 
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound

Re: [Sursound] The Sound of Vision (Mirage-sonics?)

[Fons Adriaensen]

On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 09:44:18AM +0100, Richard Dobson wrote:
 
> I find it useful in mnay cases to relate colour vision to auditory
> "perfect pitch". People with the latter recognise the "absolute"
> pitch of a note, but may suffer from octave ambiguities, such that
> they are not sure whether one tone is above or below another - hence
> sometimes intervals are mis-identified. Most people have only
> "relative" pitch, which supports correct interval recognition, but
> not the direct recognition of pitches. Put another way: most
> listeners hear music as if in monochrome - good interval recognition
> (just as well when music is so often transposed in performance) but
> little or no certainty regarding exact pitch. Transposition is
> another auditory phenomenon with no natural direct analogue in
> vision. In music, transposition may go entirely unnoticed - national
> anthems can and are played in any key - but no such process seems to
> exist for vision.

I strongly believe that any supposed similarity between perception
of colours and pitch, and any mapping of the one unto the other, is
extremely suspect. The physical processes are completely different.
Our colour perception is roughly equivalent to three bandpass filters
covering a range of one 'octave'. And these filters are such that the
upper and lower ends of the visual spectrum seem to come together,
leading to the 'circle of colours' illusion. In contrast, the audio
domain covers ten octaves, resolution is some orders of magnitude 
higher, and the extremities of the range don't map onto each other. 

Ciao,

-- 
FA

A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound

Re: [Sursound] Ambisonia?

[etienne deleflie]

>
>
> Just clicked the 'random page' link on the Ambisonia wiki and got this
> page:
>
> http://www.ambisonia.com/wiki/index.php/How_you_can_Earn_Much_more_Cash_As_an_Adult_Webcam_Girl


by installing a live B-format stream of course!

The Wiki has been turned off ... and we are working out how to secure it
better. Back soon. Thanks Bruce.

Etienne


>
>
>
> Perhaps some cleaning out is needed ;-)
>
> cheers
>
> Dr Bruce Wiggins
> Creative Technologies Research Group
> http://www.derby.ac.uk/staff-search/dr-bruce-wiggins
> Lecturer in Electronics and Sound
> http://www.derby.ac.uk/eee
> http://www.derby.ac.uk/music
>
>
> On 4 June 2012 11:58, etienne deleflie  wrote:
>
> > Hi Daniel, all,
> >
> > As you know, thanks to the University of York's generosity -- organised
> by
> > Dave M and administered by Oliver Larkin, ambisonia.com is now back
> > online,
> > serving pages from the UK (instead of far-away Australia). The migration
> > has been a bit of a mammoth task mainly driven by Marc Lavallée's
> voluntary
> > efforts.
> >
> > the current status is:
> >
> > - all downloads work
> > - uploads are not working (we will announce when fixed)
> > - registrations are turned off (until some cleanup is done)
> > - wiki works (but is more secured -- now requires logging in to edit)
> > - Podcasts are yet to be fixed
> >
> > BTW ... Marc is now the official maintainer. thanks Marc ... and thanks
> > again Dave and Oli.
> >
> > Etienne
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 1:42 AM, Daniel Courville
> > wrote:
> >
> > > What's the official state of Ambisonia? I added a torrent yesterday and
> > it
> > > seems to be working, but I don't recall an official announcement beside
> > > the one that Dave made in York stating that it would be online soon.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Daniel
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Sursound mailing list
> > > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://etiennedeleflie.net
> > -- next part --
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: <
> >
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20120604/fc0985a6/attachment.html
> > >
> > ___
> > Sursound mailing list
> > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
> >
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20120611/4ee51edc/attachment.html
> >
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
>



-- 
http://etiennedeleflie.net
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20120612/a80a1847/attachment.html>
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound

Re: [Sursound] The Sound of Vision (Mirage-sonics?)

[etienne deleflie]

On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 8:44 AM, Fons Adriaensen wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 09:44:18AM +0100, Richard Dobson wrote:
>
> > I find it useful in mnay cases to relate colour vision to auditory
> > "perfect pitch". People with the latter recognise the "absolute"
> > pitch of a note, but may suffer from octave ambiguities, such that
> > they are not sure whether one tone is above or below another - hence
> > sometimes intervals are mis-identified. Most people have only
> > "relative" pitch, which supports correct interval recognition, but
> > not the direct recognition of pitches. Put another way: most
> > listeners hear music as if in monochrome - good interval recognition
> > (just as well when music is so often transposed in performance) but
> > little or no certainty regarding exact pitch. Transposition is
> > another auditory phenomenon with no natural direct analogue in
> > vision. In music, transposition may go entirely unnoticed - national
> > anthems can and are played in any key - but no such process seems to
> > exist for vision.
>
> I strongly believe that any supposed similarity between perception
> of colours and pitch, and any mapping of the one unto the other, is
> extremely suspect. The physical processes are completely different.
>

agreed, but there has to be some correlation between sight and hearing
because of the cognitive processes involved in perception. In sight and
hearing, the mechanism of the cognitive processes will be identical. So
what percentage of a perception is cognitive? 10%, 50%, 90%?

Etienne
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound

Re: [Sursound] The Sound of Vision (Mirage-sonics?)

[Robert Greene]

The initial meessage  is also in my view something of  a misconception of 
the meaning of "perfect pitch"

--which ought to be called absolute pitch, since there is nothing
perfect about it(no one has perfect resolution of pitch nor
of anything else!).
Absolute pitch is about MEMORY. Lots of people with "relative pitch"
only hear pitch very accurately in terms of is A higher or lower than B or 
are A and B tuned in a perfect fifth(now there perfect means something--

in theory, 3 to 2 pitch ratio).
The difference is that people with absolute pitch can remember pitches
much better than other people. Anyone can remember the difference
between the bottom not on the piano and the top note.
Most people find it easy to tell from memory if a note is bass
or treble in less extreme senses. But they cannot remember
if a given not is an A or a B flat one half step above very easily.
But if one is not totally tone deaf, the perception of the difference
between an A and the B flat right above is instant and totally
reliable--if one is comparing one to the other.

But once a person with relative pitch has locked on to the standard
there is nothing whatever to suggest that they hear music in
"monochrome" in any sense. This is specious , with all respect.
There is nothing to suggest that this is true nor that there
is any real analogue with color perception at all.
People should not make stuff up.

We are just speaking of MEMORY here, not of perception as such.

It is much  more analogous to being able to go to the upholstery store
and color match for a patch for your sofa without bringing a sample
along than anything else in the color line. Some people
can do that, most not--not within anything like the threshold
of seeing color differences. One an remember that one;s sofa
is say green. But which green--that is not easy.
But no one thinks this means that people who have poor memory for exact 
colors are color blind.


This is just silly in my opinion.

In the same way, anyone can remember that treble is treble, a middle 
range middle, a bass bass. No one would take the C string of a cello as a 
note one could play on the violin. But  exactly which note  is 
which is hard or impossible for most people to remember.


Oddly enough, some people with absolute pitch play  somewhat 
out of tune on the violin or other string instruments in the 
usual sense of the words out of tune--because they tend 
to play piano (equal temperament) pitches which they remember rather than 
play the pitch that 
the harmonic context calls for.And of course the equal temperament 
pitches are harmonically wrong and sound wrong on string 
instruments especially in double stop playing(Listen carefully to YoYo 
Ma's Bach Suites)


In general, absolute pitch is attached to good pitch acuity--
but excellent pitch acuity is possible without absolute pitch.
Being able to detect something is not the same as being able to remember 
it!


Robert

PS You might try the experiment with going to the fabric store.
It is quite illuminating! Some artists --and others --can nail it
on the money from memory. But most people drift a LOT in just the time it 
takes to get to the store. Best take a sample along!



On Mon, 11 Jun 2012, Fons Adriaensen wrote:


On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 09:44:18AM +0100, Richard Dobson wrote:


I find it useful in mnay cases to relate colour vision to auditory
"perfect pitch". People with the latter recognise the "absolute"
pitch of a note, but may suffer from octave ambiguities, such that
they are not sure whether one tone is above or below another - hence
sometimes intervals are mis-identified. Most people have only
"relative" pitch, which supports correct interval recognition, but
not the direct recognition of pitches. Put another way: most
listeners hear music as if in monochrome - good interval recognition
(just as well when music is so often transposed in performance) but
little or no certainty regarding exact pitch. Transposition is
another auditory phenomenon with no natural direct analogue in
vision. In music, transposition may go entirely unnoticed - national
anthems can and are played in any key - but no such process seems to
exist for vision.


I strongly believe that any supposed similarity between perception
of colours and pitch, and any mapping of the one unto the other, is
extremely suspect. The physical processes are completely different.
Our colour perception is roughly equivalent to three bandpass filters
covering a range of one 'octave'. And these filters are such that the
upper and lower ends of the visual spectrum seem to come together,
leading to the 'circle of colours' illusion. In contrast, the audio
domain covers ten octaves, resolution is some orders of magnitude
higher, and the extremities of the range don't map onto each other.

Ciao,

--
FA

A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
and hysterically inflated market opportunities.

Re: [Sursound] The Sound of Vision (Mirage-sonics?)

[Robert Greene]

A and B here in the first bit is not note A and B
but A and B in the sense of A/B testing!
Sorry for any lack of clarity. Of course
anyone who is not hopelessly tone deaf
can hear the differencer between note A and not B!
I should have said hear is X higher or lower than Y
or something!
Sorry
Robert

On Mon, 11 Jun 2012, Robert Greene wrote:



The initial meessage  is also in my view something of  a misconception of the 
meaning of "perfect pitch"

--which ought to be called absolute pitch, since there is nothing
perfect about it(no one has perfect resolution of pitch nor
of anything else!).
Absolute pitch is about MEMORY. Lots of people with "relative pitch"
only hear pitch very accurately in terms of is A higher or lower than B or 
are A and B tuned in a perfect fifth(now there perfect means something--

in theory, 3 to 2 pitch ratio).
The difference is that people with absolute pitch can remember pitches
much better than other people. Anyone can remember the difference
between the bottom not on the piano and the top note.
Most people find it easy to tell from memory if a note is bass
or treble in less extreme senses. But they cannot remember
if a given not is an A or a B flat one half step above very easily.
But if one is not totally tone deaf, the perception of the difference
between an A and the B flat right above is instant and totally
reliable--if one is comparing one to the other.

But once a person with relative pitch has locked on to the standard
there is nothing whatever to suggest that they hear music in
"monochrome" in any sense. This is specious , with all respect.
There is nothing to suggest that this is true nor that there
is any real analogue with color perception at all.
People should not make stuff up.

We are just speaking of MEMORY here, not of perception as such.

It is much  more analogous to being able to go to the upholstery store
and color match for a patch for your sofa without bringing a sample
along than anything else in the color line. Some people
can do that, most not--not within anything like the threshold
of seeing color differences. One an remember that one;s sofa
is say green. But which green--that is not easy.
But no one thinks this means that people who have poor memory for exact 
colors are color blind.


This is just silly in my opinion.

In the same way, anyone can remember that treble is treble, a middle range 
middle, a bass bass. No one would take the C string of a cello as a note one 
could play on the violin. But  exactly which note  is which is hard or 
impossible for most people to remember.


Oddly enough, some people with absolute pitch play  somewhat out of tune on 
the violin or other string instruments in the usual sense of the words out of 
tune--because they tend to play piano (equal temperament) pitches which they 
remember rather than play the pitch that the harmonic context calls for.And 
of course the equal temperament pitches are harmonically wrong and sound 
wrong on string instruments especially in double stop playing(Listen 
carefully to YoYo Ma's Bach Suites)


In general, absolute pitch is attached to good pitch acuity--
but excellent pitch acuity is possible without absolute pitch.
Being able to detect something is not the same as being able to remember it!

Robert

PS You might try the experiment with going to the fabric store.
It is quite illuminating! Some artists --and others --can nail it
on the money from memory. But most people drift a LOT in just the time it 
takes to get to the store. Best take a sample along!



On Mon, 11 Jun 2012, Fons Adriaensen wrote:


On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 09:44:18AM +0100, Richard Dobson wrote:


I find it useful in mnay cases to relate colour vision to auditory
"perfect pitch". People with the latter recognise the "absolute"
pitch of a note, but may suffer from octave ambiguities, such that
they are not sure whether one tone is above or below another - hence
sometimes intervals are mis-identified. Most people have only
"relative" pitch, which supports correct interval recognition, but
not the direct recognition of pitches. Put another way: most
listeners hear music as if in monochrome - good interval recognition
(just as well when music is so often transposed in performance) but
little or no certainty regarding exact pitch. Transposition is
another auditory phenomenon with no natural direct analogue in
vision. In music, transposition may go entirely unnoticed - national
anthems can and are played in any key - but no such process seems to
exist for vision.


I strongly believe that any supposed similarity between perception
of colours and pitch, and any mapping of the one unto the other, is
extremely suspect. The physical processes are completely different.
Our colour perception is roughly equivalent to three bandpass filters
covering a range of one 'octave'. And these filters are such that the
upper and lower ends of the visual spectrum seem to come together,
leading to the 'circle of colours' illusion.

Re: [Sursound] The Sound of Vision (Mirage-sonics?)

[Jörn Nettingsmeier]

On 06/12/2012 02:00 AM, etienne deleflie wrote:


agreed, but there has to be some correlation between sight and hearing
because of the cognitive processes involved in perception. In sight and
hearing, the mechanism of the cognitive processes will be identical. So
what percentage of a perception is cognitive? 10%, 50%, 90%?


in discussions like these, the only way to win is not to play :-D

or to read all the long long papers of people doing the actual research...


--
Jörn Nettingsmeier
Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487

Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio)
Tonmeister VDT

http://stackingdwarves.net

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound

Re: [Sursound] The Sound of Vision (Mirage-sonics?)

[Ronald C.F. Antony]

On 11 Jun 2012, at 18:44, Fons Adriaensen  wrote:

> and the extremities of the range don't map onto each other.

For one, if they didn't map onto each other, we didn't have the concept of 
octaves and that an C is somehow a C regardless of which octave it's from. So 
the circling of octaves is somewhat analogous to the circle of colors.

Sure, a C in one octave differs from the C in another octave by pitch, but so 
can orange of the same hue differ from another orange of the same hue, by 
having different saturation or brightness.
Color is in any sense as many dimensional as sound. We neither perceive color 
nor sound as "frequency" and therefore the relative frequency range doesn't 
matter when comparing the two.

Further, since there are people with considerable synaesthesia, if we consider 
that a cognitive defect, strength, or just "otherness" doesn't matter, but for 
such people sound and color clearly map onto each other. You'd be hard pressed 
to tell a person like that, that there is no correspondence between sound and 
color...

Ronald
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound