Re: [Sursound] UA 0.982 [was Re: Universal Ambisonic 0.98]
On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 11:39:01AM +1100, e deleflie wrote: > > OTOH, the main consideration for choosing ACN was that these things > > will in most cases be handled by tools and code rather than by humans. > > I have found that the *most* error prone step is hooking up the Jack > channels from my software, into AmbDec. When using hori I have to skip > certain channels here and there, and its confusing as all hell, > because the FuMa names dont really correspond to the N3D names I'm > using. Which is why I avoid doing this manually more than once. > So I'll retract my comment on not caring about the channel names .. > > I think the most confusing thing is for the channel names to have an > implied order. FuMa implies the order of the alphabet, but this order > is wrong. And ANC implies its numerical order. It would be strange to > have ACN channel 3 in position 2. It is confusing if the implied order is different from the actual one, in those cases where there is an actual order, like when using a general purpose multichannel file format which has no channel names by itself. And how to do this is what you want to define if I understand the purpose of your initiative correctly. As you say, Jack itself does not have a concept of order of ports. If there is any order in what the user sees it is created by tools such as qjackctl (and that's why ambdec's names currently include the degree as first numerical item - it makes qjackctl do the right thing). But Jack is not the final word on audio app connection systems - it lacks other fundamental concepts as well, such as grouping of ports. > So my preference is for the channels to have no clear implied order. > I'll commit to your 0C0, 1C1, 1S1 names if you confirm they are the > names you'll use in ambdec. The current plans for ambdec & friends are for channel names that contain the ACN as the 'authoritative' part, with l,m and the FuMa name purely as 'informational', for human use only. Any tools and code that tries to automate things should only use the ACN. The exact format is still uncertain, current ideas revolve around the form 'l[+-]m' rather than the 'l[CS]m' one. But in any case, the numerical values used will be l,m,|m|, and certainly *not* the l-|m| which you are currently using. So if you are prepared to change things to be more compatible, this is the thing to change. The choice of [+-] or [CS] as the separator is more a matter of cosmetics - a user could easily match those is the numbers are the same. Over the WE I'll try to talk to some 'power users' to find out what they think about this. Ciao, -- FA There are three of them, and Alleline. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] UA 0.982 [was Re: Universal Ambisonic 0.98]
On 11/26/2010 12:59 AM, f...@kokkinizita.net wrote: >> Can you convince me to use the ACN scheme? it is very well documented on michael chapman's site. http://ambisonics.ch/standards/channels/ very big plus :) -- Jörn Nettingsmeier Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487 Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio), Elektrofachkraft Audio and event engineer - Ambisonic surround recordings http://stackingdwarves.net ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Oh while I am asking
ah, ok, well perhaps I mis-understood thenluckily, emails are always easy to ignore if necessary ;-) cheers Dr Bruce Wiggins Signal Processing Applications Research Group http://www.derby.ac.uk/staff-search/dr-bruce-wiggins Lecturer in Electronics and Sound http://www.derby.ac.uk/eee http://www.derby.ac.uk/music On 25 November 2010 22:54, Paul Hodges wrote: > --On 25 November 2010 21:42 + Bruce Wiggins > wrote: > > The .AMB files still need decoding! >> > > I took "just play a B-format file" to mean only that - feeding the outputs > into your decoders, or VVMicVST, etc, is then a separate and reasonably > well-known matter. > > > Paul > > -- > Paul Hodges > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20101126/4be7b5fb/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Malfunctioning ST350 control unit
On 25 Nov 2010, at 18:00, sursound-requ...@music.vt.edu wrote: Message: 1 Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 13:21:16 -0500 From: Daniel Courville Subject: Re: [Sursound] Malfunctioning ST350 control unit As to the polarity issue, L,R are indeed inverted w.r.t. X,Y,Z for front, left, up respectively. It could be the Lemo to XLR breakout cable - did you check the wiring ? You mean that the SoundField-supplied B-Format breakout cable would have all it's + and - inverted? If somebody with a ST350 could check the W against the L/R set to omni pattern / 0 width, we would have sort of an answer and something to ask SoundField... I recorded W and Left (set to omni pattern, 0 width as you suggested) simultaneously. All other things (endfire, HPF etc) are off. the waveforms appear to be identical but one has inverted phase. Which one??? my xlr cables are soldered correctly. going to test the LEMO now. Justin Justin Bennett j...@bmbcon.demon.nl http://this.is/justin http://this.is/bmbcon NEW RELEASES AND FREE DOWNLOADS FROM http://spore.soundscaper.com ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Malfunctioning ST350 control unit
Le 10-11-26 11:32, Justin Bennett a écrit : >>If somebody with a ST350 could check the W against the L/R set to omni >>pattern / 0 width, we would have sort of an answer and something to >>ask >>SoundField... > >I recorded W and Left (set to omni pattern, 0 width as you suggested) >simultaneously. >All other things (endfire, HPF etc) are off. >the waveforms appear to be identical but one has inverted phase. >Which one??? >my xlr cables are soldered correctly. going to test the LEMO now. Thanks for your test. Is the amplitude the same or is the W 3 dB lower? This is beginning to look like a "feature". I seem to remember reading 20 years ago that the B-Format output of the SF Mk III or Mk IV had it's polarity intentionally reversed on the B output. If this is right, what was the rationale behind this? Maybe Peter Craven or Richard Lee could shed some light on this. And also, if the polarity was intentionally reversed on the "legacy" models, the new models would only be carrying on the practice... - Daniel ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
[Sursound] VST Plug-in for B-format Decoding
Hi George, Ooops, I guess I should have been more specific... A VST plugin. The description is of an awesome-sounding player, but ultimately I want to manipulate recorded material in AudioMulch. You might try VVMicVST from David McGriffy (http://www.vvaudio.com/products/vvmicvst) . We provide it with TetraMic and it works very well. Len Moskowitz (mosko...@core-sound.com) Core Sound LLC www.core-sound.com Home of TetraMic ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
[Sursound] Auro-3D
Some like to do it the hard way: http://auro-3d.com/index.html sic Eero ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Auro-3D
Quite interesting, but I since height perception can be coded into normal channels it seems like a lot of work to gain very little. Joern Rune Kviserud Midgard Audio Den 26.11.2010 19:36, skrev Eero Aro: Some like to do it the hard way: http://auro-3d.com/index.html sic Eero ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Auro-3D
...there is written at page two "sounds coming from everywhere around and above the listener" That's the problem. We are surrounded, not include in the sound. Really immersive solutions are existing today, per example search "holophony" in Google. Regards, Helmut 2010/11/26 Eero Aro > Some like to do it the hard way: > > http://auro-3d.com/index.html > > sic > > Eero > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20101126/badba3ae/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Auro-3D
On 11/26/2010 07:36 PM, Eero Aro wrote: > Some like to do it the hard way: > > http://auro-3d.com/index.html it's all the rage here at tonmeistertagung. the good thing is: there are some industry heavyweights pulling in the same direction, so they might just make it happen. i think that scheme is not very clever, and their marketing lingo is truly irritating, especially for an audience of (supposedly) experts and professionals. but with-height is going to come eventually, and these guys have a very smooth migration path up their sleeves. let's hope we can surf the wake and profit from the general interest in with-height sound reproduction and get some people to ask the right questions. just my 2c. jörn -- Jörn Nettingsmeier Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487 Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio), Elektrofachkraft Audio and event engineer - Ambisonic surround recordings http://stackingdwarves.net ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Auro-3D
On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 11:28:27PM +0100, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote: > let's hope we can surf the wake and profit from the general interest in > with-height sound reproduction and get some people to ask the right > questions. First question: how does it compare to 3h1v ? Ciao, -- FA There are three of them, and Alleline. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
[Sursound] ST350 phase
>As to the polarity issue, L,R are indeed inverted w.r.t. X,Y,Z >for front, left, up respectively. It could be the Lemo to XLR >breakout cable - did you check the wiring ? The Mk4 had WXYZ inverted wrt stereo outputs. I think the stereo outputs are "correct". (pressure increase -> Omni increase) This was due to an obsession of mine to avoid yet another OPA in the signal path.[*] Mea maxima culpa. IIRC, from the Mk5s, SP422s etc I've measured, this legacy is in other Soundfield product too. [*] Later, this became an obsession in keeping intermediate products in the accumulator on integer DSP chips. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] ST350 phase
On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 09:24:30AM -, Richard Lee wrote: > >As to the polarity issue, L,R are indeed inverted w.r.t. X,Y,Z > >for front, left, up respectively. It could be the Lemo to XLR > >breakout cable - did you check the wiring ? > > The Mk4 had WXYZ inverted wrt stereo outputs. I think the stereo outputs are > "correct". (pressure increase -> Omni increase) > > This was due to an obsession of mine to avoid yet another OPA in the signal > path.[*] Mea maxima culpa. This more or less confirms my suspicion that the outputs are only impedance balanced. If they were fully balanced (i.e. two antiphase signals), you could just swap the connections. > [*] Later, this became an obsession in keeping intermediate products in the > accumulator on integer DSP chips. Sounds familiar :-). Ever done DSP on TI's C30, C40, or the ARM ? All registers equivalent, the problem goes away. But then of course there's the C calling convention, e.g. on the ARM i would try to do everything using just r0, r1, r2, r3, r12 since these don't have to be saved and restored, and get the final result in r0 since that is the return value. Those were the days... Ciao, -- FA There are three of them, and Alleline. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
