[Savannah-users] what are the usefulness criteria for submitted code?
Dear Savannah hackers, My name is Ivan Zaigralin, and my email is melik...@melikamp.com. I am using this gmail account because messages sent to this list from my own domain seem to disappear into a black hole. I am currently in the process of submitting a project to the non-GNU part of Savannah. I seem to have hit an unexpected barrier: unexpected to me, but may be that's just because my expectations were out of line with reality, so I hope you can help me to resolve this issue. What I submitted was ~ 120 KiB of bash code + licensing information. To my surprise, my submission is not being accepted, and the reasons stated I will simply quote: "These are person-specific scripts" "It doesn't seem to me that they could be generally useful." "Yes, this is my opinion that doesn't coincide with yours." "All this makes sense for personal scripts, but not for general use. They are just not written with such use in mind." "I don't think there are real objective criteria for things like e.g. simplistic package. We have to use our judgement." I want to draw your attention specifically to the fact that the reviewer is using nothing but his subjective judgment in order to decide whether my submission is "generally useful". I also want to make it absolutely clear, I have no complaints about this particular reviewer, and nothing in this post should be interpreted as a criticism of that person or any of his actions so far. The reason I find this surprising is this: FSF endorses Savannah as a "hosting service": "There are many services that will host your project's source code" "Savannah is a community project, providing code hosting for your free software project" This endorsement is explicit in claiming that Savannah will host *my* project, which I understand as me preserving the creative control over the code I submit. To contrast, the GNU project does and should make subjective calls as to what constitutes useful GNU software, just as the KDE project members make subjective calls as to what constitutes contributions useful to KDE. This makes sense because these are software projects, and when I submit code to them from the outside, it is implied that they have the creative control (or at least a greater share of it), and will make subjective calls in line with their unique and subjective vision of what their project should be and how it should get there. Most such projects also have very detailed descriptions of their subjective visions; for example, KDE is defined as "advanced graphical desktop, a wide variety of applications for communication, work, education and entertainment and a platform to easily build new applications upon", and much much much more, which really narrows down the scope of the project, and makes it perfectly clear that only the code implementing that vision will be accepted. There is also absolutely no surprise when senior members of the KDE team, who share the creative control over their project, reject code based on their personal and subjective notions of quality and/or usability. So I was taken aback, to be frank, when I was told by the reviewer that my project is not accepted based on nothing but personal and subjective criteria having to do with general usefulness. After a lengthy inquiry, I still cannot locate any official Savannah description of any usefulness tests applied to submissions. I was fully expecting objective criteria (besides licensing), such minimal & maximal size in bytes, but I cannot find any listed anywhere. Indeed, I cannot even find any official subjective criteria, which would make sense if Savannah was in fact a software project. So it looks to me like my submission is being held up based on a personal subjective usefulness test which was applied to my project only, effectively singling it out. So with the information I have now, the only way to interpret what is happening is that Savannah is de facto a software project, whereas Savannah hackers assume a share of creative control right from the start, from the moment of submission. Just like any community project, Savannah is fully entitled to make the rules, but as an FSF member I see an issue with endorsing Savannah as a "hosting service", unless it actually is a hosting service in a manner I described above, which brings me to my questions for the Savannah community: Does or does not the Savannah project demand, allow, or abide by filtering/censoring/rejecting projects based solely on subjective opinions of its members (Savannah hackers)? If yes, what is the goal for such practice? If no, does the Savannah project expressly forbid such practices internally? Thanks for your time :) References: FSF endorsement: https://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/savannah My Savannah submission: https://savannah.gnu.org/task/?14370
[Savannah-users] Looking for hosting options
hi! i am looking around for hosting options, is this a good place to ask basic use questions?
Re: [Savannah-users] what are the usefulness criteria for submitted code?
You should split your project by tasks, as most likely no one would /another/ bunch script set especially for sysadmin task. And wonder for each one if it is /generally/ useful, flexibile enough, etc. If you look at any administrative interface, she most likely rely on one distribution and depends on a programs/versions set. It have to be integrated. Le 1 mars 2017 02:57:03 GMT+01:00, john smith a écrit : >Dear Savannah hackers, > >My name is Ivan Zaigralin, and my email is melik...@melikamp.com. I am >using this gmail >account because messages sent to this list from my own domain seem to >disappear into >a black hole. > >I am currently in the process of submitting a project to the non-GNU >part >of Savannah. I seem >to have hit an unexpected barrier: unexpected to me, but may be that's >just >because my >expectations were out of line with reality, so I hope you can help me >to >resolve this issue. > >What I submitted was ~ 120 KiB of bash code + licensing information. To >my >surprise, my >submission is not being accepted, and the reasons stated I will simply >quote: > >"These are person-specific scripts" > >"It doesn't seem to me that they could be generally useful." > >"Yes, this is my opinion that doesn't coincide with yours." > >"All this makes sense for personal scripts, but not for general use. >They >are just not written with >such use in mind." > >"I don't think there are real objective criteria for things like e.g. >simplistic package. We have to >use our judgement." > >I want to draw your attention specifically to the fact that the >reviewer is >using nothing but his >subjective judgment in order to decide whether my submission is >"generally >useful". I also want >to make it absolutely clear, I have no complaints about this particular >reviewer, and nothing in >this post should be interpreted as a criticism of that person or any of >his >actions so far. > >The reason I find this surprising is this: FSF endorses Savannah as a >"hosting service": > >"There are many services that will host your project's source code" > >"Savannah is a community project, providing code hosting for your free >software project" > >This endorsement is explicit in claiming that Savannah will host *my* >project, which I >understand as me preserving the creative control over the code I >submit. > >To contrast, the GNU project does and should make subjective calls as >to >what constitutes >useful GNU software, just as the KDE project members make subjective >calls >as to what >constitutes contributions useful to KDE. This makes sense because these >are >software >projects, and when I submit code to them from the outside, it is >implied >that they have the >creative control (or at least a greater share of it), and will make >subjective calls in line with their >unique and subjective vision of what their project should be and how it >should get there. Most >such projects also have very detailed descriptions of their subjective >visions; for example, KDE >is defined as "advanced graphical desktop, a wide variety of >applications >for communication, >work, education and entertainment and a platform to easily build new >applications upon", and >much much much more, which really narrows down the scope of the >project, >and makes it >perfectly clear that only the code implementing that vision will be >accepted. There is also >absolutely no surprise when senior members of the KDE team, who share >the >creative control >over their project, reject code based on their personal and subjective >notions of quality and/or >usability. > >So I was taken aback, to be frank, when I was told by the reviewer that >my >project is not >accepted based on nothing but personal and subjective criteria having >to do >with general >usefulness. After a lengthy inquiry, I still cannot locate any official >Savannah description of any >usefulness tests applied to submissions. I was fully expecting >objective >criteria (besides >licensing), such minimal & maximal size in bytes, but I cannot find any >listed anywhere. >Indeed, I cannot even find any official subjective criteria, which >would >make sense if Savannah >was in fact a software project. So it looks to me like my submission is >being held up based on >a personal subjective usefulness test which was applied to my project >only, >effectively singling >it out. So with the information I have now, the only way to interpret >what >is happening is that >Savannah is de facto a software project, whereas Savannah hackers >assume a >share of creative control right from the start, from the moment of >submission. > >Just like any community project, Savannah is fully entitled to make the >rules, but as an FSF >member I see an issue with endorsing Savannah as a "hosting service", >unless it actually is a >hosting service in a manner I described above, which brings me to my >questions for the >Savannah community: > >Does or does not the Savannah project demand, allow, or abide by >filtering/censoring/
Re: [Savannah-users] what are the usefulness criteria for submitted code?
I am just someone giving some questions and a few words or ideas from what I have discovered in the last few minutes, by reading your message and examining your code a bit. What your project does? Why would I want to install it? How do I install it? What will happen in my system when I install it? Does it depend on specific programs or packages? Which? Why? Does it depend on any libraries? Does it depend on specific versions of some software? Where is the documentation for it? What each script do? What each script assume? What are the limitations of each script? What would I possibly want to add to your project? I have some nice scripts too. Em 28-02-2017 22:57, john smith escreveu: Dear Savannah hackers, My name is Ivan Zaigralin, and my email is melik...@melikamp.com. I am using this gmail account because messages sent to this list from my own domain seem to disappear into a black hole. I am currently in the process of submitting a project to the non-GNU part of Savannah. I seem to have hit an unexpected barrier: unexpected to me, but may be that's just because my expectations were out of line with reality, so I hope you can help me to resolve this issue. What I submitted was ~ 120 KiB of bash code + licensing information. To my surprise, my submission is not being accepted, and the reasons stated I will simply quote: "These are person-specific scripts" "It doesn't seem to me that they could be generally useful." "Yes, this is my opinion that doesn't coincide with yours." "All this makes sense for personal scripts, but not for general use. They are just not written with such use in mind." "I don't think there are real objective criteria for things like e.g. simplistic package. We have to use our judgement." I want to draw your attention specifically to the fact that the reviewer is using nothing but his subjective judgment in order to decide whether my submission is "generally useful". I also want to make it absolutely clear, I have no complaints about this particular reviewer, and nothing in this post should be interpreted as a criticism of that person or any of his actions so far. The reason I find this surprising is this: FSF endorses Savannah as a "hosting service": "There are many services that will host your project's source code" "Savannah is a community project, providing code hosting for your free software project" This endorsement is explicit in claiming that Savannah will host *my* project, which I understand as me preserving the creative control over the code I submit. To contrast, the GNU project does and should make subjective calls as to what constitutes useful GNU software, just as the KDE project members make subjective calls as to what constitutes contributions useful to KDE. This makes sense because these are software projects, and when I submit code to them from the outside, it is implied that they have the creative control (or at least a greater share of it), and will make subjective calls in line with their unique and subjective vision of what their project should be and how it should get there. Most such projects also have very detailed descriptions of their subjective visions; for example, KDE is defined as "advanced graphical desktop, a wide variety of applications for communication, work, education and entertainment and a platform to easily build new applications upon", and much much much more, which really narrows down the scope of the project, and makes it perfectly clear that only the code implementing that vision will be accepted. There is also absolutely no surprise when senior members of the KDE team, who share the creative control over their project, reject code based on their personal and subjective notions of quality and/or usability. So I was taken aback, to be frank, when I was told by the reviewer that my project is not accepted based on nothing but personal and subjective criteria having to do with general usefulness. After a lengthy inquiry, I still cannot locate any official Savannah description of any usefulness tests applied to submissions. I was fully expecting objective criteria (besides licensing), such minimal & maximal size in bytes, but I cannot find any listed anywhere. Indeed, I cannot even find any official subjective criteria, which would make sense if Savannah was in fact a software project. So it looks to me like my submission is being held up based on a personal subjective usefulness test which was applied to my project only, effectively singling it out. So with the information I have now, the only way to interpret what is happening is that Savannah is de facto a software project, whereas Savannah hackers assume a share of creative control right from the start, from the moment of submission. Just like any community project, Savannah is fully entitled to make the rules, but as an FSF member I see an issue with endorsing Savannah as a "hosting service", unless it actually is a hosting service in a manner I described
Re: [Savannah-users] Looking for hosting options
Yes! Em 28-02-2017 23:40, Morgan Cotton escreveu: hi! i am looking around for hosting options, is this a good place to ask basic use questions?
Re: [Savannah-users] what are the usefulness criteria for submitted code?
I am not at all against discussing my submission, which is linked upthread, but for now I want to concentrate on one a single aspect of it, and it's not the code. In my view, and by the admission of the reviewer, https://savannah.gnu.org/task/?14370 is an example of a submission being held up and not accepted based solely on personal and subjective opinions of the reviewer. With my inquiry here I am only trying to figure out whether Savannah project demands, allows, or abides by filtering/censoring/rejecting projects based solely on subjective opinions of its members (Savannah hackers). If yes, what is the goal for such practice? If no, does the Savannah project expressly forbid such practice internally? Questions you've asked would be more suitable in a discussion pertaining to the development of my project, and if you are interested in joining the project and contributing ideas and code, please email the project leader: melik...@melikamp.com This mailing list is, ostensibly, for discussing general questions of interest to all Savannah users, just like the questions I stated above, and I feel that discussing the nitty-gritty of my code here would be completely off-topic. If, however, you see something in the submitted code that contradicts the assertions and claims I've made so far, then by all means, please point it out. On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 5:32 AM, "André Z. D. A." wrote: > I am just someone giving some questions and a few words or ideas from what > I have discovered in the last few minutes, by reading your message and > examining your code a bit. > > What your project does? > > Why would I want to install it? > > How do I install it? What will happen in my system when I install it? > > Does it depend on specific programs or packages? Which? Why? > > Does it depend on any libraries? > > Does it depend on specific versions of some software? > > Where is the documentation for it? > > What each script do? > > What each script assume? > > What are the limitations of each script? > > What would I possibly want to add to your project? I have some nice > scripts too. > > > > > Em 28-02-2017 22:57, john smith escreveu: > >> Dear Savannah hackers, >> >> My name is Ivan Zaigralin, and my email is melik...@melikamp.com. I am >> using this gmail >> account because messages sent to this list from my own domain seem to >> disappear into >> a black hole. >> >> I am currently in the process of submitting a project to the non-GNU part >> of Savannah. I seem >> to have hit an unexpected barrier: unexpected to me, but may be that's >> just >> because my >> expectations were out of line with reality, so I hope you can help me to >> resolve this issue. >> >> What I submitted was ~ 120 KiB of bash code + licensing information. To my >> surprise, my >> submission is not being accepted, and the reasons stated I will simply >> quote: >> >> "These are person-specific scripts" >> >> "It doesn't seem to me that they could be generally useful." >> >> "Yes, this is my opinion that doesn't coincide with yours." >> >> "All this makes sense for personal scripts, but not for general use. They >> are just not written with >> such use in mind." >> >> "I don't think there are real objective criteria for things like e.g. >> simplistic package. We have to >> use our judgement." >> >> I want to draw your attention specifically to the fact that the reviewer >> is >> using nothing but his >> subjective judgment in order to decide whether my submission is "generally >> useful". I also want >> to make it absolutely clear, I have no complaints about this particular >> reviewer, and nothing in >> this post should be interpreted as a criticism of that person or any of >> his >> actions so far. >> >> The reason I find this surprising is this: FSF endorses Savannah as a >> "hosting service": >> >> "There are many services that will host your project's source code" >> >> "Savannah is a community project, providing code hosting for your free >> software project" >> >> This endorsement is explicit in claiming that Savannah will host *my* >> project, which I >> understand as me preserving the creative control over the code I submit. >> >> To contrast, the GNU project does and should make subjective calls as to >> what constitutes >> useful GNU software, just as the KDE project members make subjective calls >> as to what >> constitutes contributions useful to KDE. This makes sense because these >> are >> software >> projects, and when I submit code to them from the outside, it is implied >> that they have the >> creative control (or at least a greater share of it), and will make >> subjective calls in line with their >> unique and subjective vision of what their project should be and how it >> should get there. Most >> such projects also have very detailed descriptions of their subjective >> visions; for example, KDE >> is defined as "advanced graphical desktop, a wide variety of applications >> for communication, >> work, education and entertainme
Re: [Savannah-users] what are the usefulness criteria for submitted code?
Dear Thomas Harding, I would like to address your concerns, but in order to give a meaningful reply I first need you to clarify one thing for me: Are you a mere *user* of the Savannah hosting, using it as a platform to share your own projects, such as "PHP code128 barcode", or are you a contributor to the Savannah project proper? In other words, are you affiliated with the Savannah project? Yet another way to answer my question is to see if you can answer "yes" to any of the following: Do you have access to the Savannah project infrastructure which is above that of a mere user? Are you responsible for any part of day-to-day operations of the Savannah hosting service? Are you responsible for any part of the code review process, which results in decisions to accept/reject/suspend/revoke hosted projects? Are you responsible for the design and implementation of Savannah project policies, or the overall vision for the Savannah project? On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 6:10 AM, Thomas Harding wrote: > > You should split your project by tasks, as most likely no one would > /another/ bunch script set especially for sysadmin task. > > And wonder for each one if it is /generally/ useful, flexibile enough, etc. > > If you look at any administrative interface, she most likely rely on one > distribution and depends on a programs/versions set. It have to be > integrated. > > > > > Le 1 mars 2017 02:57:03 GMT+01:00, john smith > a écrit : > >Dear Savannah hackers, > > > >My name is Ivan Zaigralin, and my email is melik...@melikamp.com. I am > >using this gmail > >account because messages sent to this list from my own domain seem to > >disappear into > >a black hole. > > > >I am currently in the process of submitting a project to the non-GNU > >part > >of Savannah. I seem > >to have hit an unexpected barrier: unexpected to me, but may be that's > >just > >because my > >expectations were out of line with reality, so I hope you can help me > >to > >resolve this issue. > > > >What I submitted was ~ 120 KiB of bash code + licensing information. To > >my > >surprise, my > >submission is not being accepted, and the reasons stated I will simply > >quote: > > > >"These are person-specific scripts" > > > >"It doesn't seem to me that they could be generally useful." > > > >"Yes, this is my opinion that doesn't coincide with yours." > > > >"All this makes sense for personal scripts, but not for general use. > >They > >are just not written with > >such use in mind." > > > >"I don't think there are real objective criteria for things like e.g. > >simplistic package. We have to > >use our judgement." > > > >I want to draw your attention specifically to the fact that the > >reviewer is > >using nothing but his > >subjective judgment in order to decide whether my submission is > >"generally > >useful". I also want > >to make it absolutely clear, I have no complaints about this particular > >reviewer, and nothing in > >this post should be interpreted as a criticism of that person or any of > >his > >actions so far. > > > >The reason I find this surprising is this: FSF endorses Savannah as a > >"hosting service": > > > >"There are many services that will host your project's source code" > > > >"Savannah is a community project, providing code hosting for your free > >software project" > > > >This endorsement is explicit in claiming that Savannah will host *my* > >project, which I > >understand as me preserving the creative control over the code I > >submit. > > > >To contrast, the GNU project does and should make subjective calls as > >to > >what constitutes > >useful GNU software, just as the KDE project members make subjective > >calls > >as to what > >constitutes contributions useful to KDE. This makes sense because these > >are > >software > >projects, and when I submit code to them from the outside, it is > >implied > >that they have the > >creative control (or at least a greater share of it), and will make > >subjective calls in line with their > >unique and subjective vision of what their project should be and how it > >should get there. Most > >such projects also have very detailed descriptions of their subjective > >visions; for example, KDE > >is defined as "advanced graphical desktop, a wide variety of > >applications > >for communication, > >work, education and entertainment and a platform to easily build new > >applications upon", and > >much much much more, which really narrows down the scope of the > >project, > >and makes it > >perfectly clear that only the code implementing that vision will be > >accepted. There is also > >absolutely no surprise when senior members of the KDE team, who share > >the > >creative control > >over their project, reject code based on their personal and subjective > >notions of quality and/or > >usability. > > > >So I was taken aback, to be frank, when I was told by the reviewer that > >my > >project is not > >accepted based on nothing but personal and subjective criteria having > >to do > >with gene
Re: [Savannah-users] what are the usefulness criteria for submitted code?
Hi John, I am the administrator of one of the Savannah packages, and not a Savannah administrator. My opinion is only worth as much as any other user's. On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 10:43 AM, john smith wrote: > I am not at all against discussing my submission, which is linked upthread, > but for now I want to concentrate on one a single aspect of it, and it's > not the code. In my view, and by the admission of the reviewer, > https://savannah.gnu.org/task/?14370 is an example of a submission being > held up and not accepted based solely on personal and subjective opinions > of the reviewer. With my inquiry here I am only trying to figure out > whether Savannah project demands, allows, or abides by > filtering/censoring/rejecting projects based solely on subjective opinions > of its members (Savannah hackers). If yes, what is the goal for such > practice? If no, does the Savannah project expressly forbid such practice > internally? The minimum criteria for a project to be accepted is listed here, and it appears your project might meet them: http://savannah.gnu.org/register/requirements.php Criteria to become GNU Software are much more stringent, though technically a set of free scripts (if documented) appear to meet the criteria: http://www.gnu.org/help/evaluation.html The servers that run the Savannah hosting are run by volunteers and paid for by donations. It's impossible for Savannah to host every project, so I can see why the Savannah hackers would want to apply some subjective criteria to help focus the limited resources. Your options at this point are either to wait for another Savannah hacker to agree with you and overrule ineiev, or to make improvements to your code to make it more general-purpose and applicable to a wider audience. Jan
Re: [Savannah-users] what are the usefulness criteria for submitted code?
Answer is : no to all. Having only 2 projets hosteds for approximately 10 years. In fact, they are parts done as personal job for an hardware database I written, wich fitted the needs at work and has been superseded 7 or 8 years later. I would never upload it to Savannah. The other one is PHP::PRINT::IPP. I primarily hosted it on "PHP classes", but didn't one the "need to register" process and was unsure at time of any other repository (who owns ?). Also PHP was trend-setting web programming and frameworks not yet. It has been forked by unknowns on some code repositories in order to be integrated in some frameworks, but no one wants to do the job :-/ Ecosystem is full of "Personal job", and sysadmin scripting is PJ by destination. You will most likely face maintainance alone, with too few bug reports from rare users. Le 1 mars 2017 18:49:48 GMT+01:00, john smith a écrit : >Dear Thomas Harding, > >I would like to address your concerns, but in order to give a >meaningful >reply I first need you to clarify one thing for me: > >Are you a mere *user* of the Savannah hosting, using it as a platform >to >share your own projects, such as "PHP code128 barcode", or are you a >contributor to the Savannah project proper? In other words, are you >affiliated with the Savannah project? Yet another way to answer my >question >is to see if you can answer "yes" to any of the following: > >Do you have access to the Savannah project infrastructure which is >above >that of a mere user? Are you responsible for any part of day-to-day >operations of the Savannah hosting service? Are you responsible for any >part of the code review process, which results in decisions to >accept/reject/suspend/revoke hosted projects? Are you responsible for >the >design and implementation of Savannah project policies, or the overall >vision for the Savannah project? > >On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 6:10 AM, Thomas Harding > >wrote: > >> >> You should split your project by tasks, as most likely no one would >> /another/ bunch script set especially for sysadmin task. >> >> And wonder for each one if it is /generally/ useful, flexibile >enough, etc. >> >> If you look at any administrative interface, she most likely rely on >one >> distribution and depends on a programs/versions set. It have to be >> integrated. >> >> >> >> >> Le 1 mars 2017 02:57:03 GMT+01:00, john smith > >> a écrit : >> >Dear Savannah hackers, >> > >> >My name is Ivan Zaigralin, and my email is melik...@melikamp.com. I >am >> >using this gmail >> >account because messages sent to this list from my own domain seem >to >> >disappear into >> >a black hole. >> > >> >I am currently in the process of submitting a project to the non-GNU >> >part >> >of Savannah. I seem >> >to have hit an unexpected barrier: unexpected to me, but may be >that's >> >just >> >because my >> >expectations were out of line with reality, so I hope you can help >me >> >to >> >resolve this issue. >> > >> >What I submitted was ~ 120 KiB of bash code + licensing information. >To >> >my >> >surprise, my >> >submission is not being accepted, and the reasons stated I will >simply >> >quote: >> > >> >"These are person-specific scripts" >> > >> >"It doesn't seem to me that they could be generally useful." >> > >> >"Yes, this is my opinion that doesn't coincide with yours." >> > >> >"All this makes sense for personal scripts, but not for general use. >> >They >> >are just not written with >> >such use in mind." >> > >> >"I don't think there are real objective criteria for things like >e.g. >> >simplistic package. We have to >> >use our judgement." >> > >> >I want to draw your attention specifically to the fact that the >> >reviewer is >> >using nothing but his >> >subjective judgment in order to decide whether my submission is >> >"generally >> >useful". I also want >> >to make it absolutely clear, I have no complaints about this >particular >> >reviewer, and nothing in >> >this post should be interpreted as a criticism of that person or any >of >> >his >> >actions so far. >> > >> >The reason I find this surprising is this: FSF endorses Savannah as >a >> >"hosting service": >> > >> >"There are many services that will host your project's source code" >> > >> >"Savannah is a community project, providing code hosting for your >free >> >software project" >> > >> >This endorsement is explicit in claiming that Savannah will host >*my* >> >project, which I >> >understand as me preserving the creative control over the code I >> >submit. >> > >> >To contrast, the GNU project does and should make subjective calls >as >> >to >> >what constitutes >> >useful GNU software, just as the KDE project members make subjective >> >calls >> >as to what >> >constitutes contributions useful to KDE. This makes sense because >these >> >are >> >software >> >projects, and when I submit code to them from the outside, it is >> >implied >> >that they have the >> >creative control (or at least a greater share of it), and will make >> >subjective
Re: [Savannah-users] what are the usefulness criteria for submitted code?
> Answer is : no to all. Having only 2 projets hosteds for approximately 10 years. Great, so we can actually discuss my code without me suspecting a conflict of interest. > You should split your project by tasks, By making this suggestion you indicate you would like to contribute some ideas to my project, and I really appreciate it. But I must ask you to move this topic into a private channel; best of all, email me: melik...@melikamp.com (john smith is merely a workaround for a spam asassin somewhere). Not only the in-depth discussion of my code is completely out of place in this forum, but I am also afraid that it would distract us from discussing pretty much the only question I posed to the Savannah project team, and which went completely unanswered so far. I want to take this opportunity to clarify one more time that the purpose of this inquiry is *not* to get my project accepted, even thought accepting it would change the course of this discussion. The purpose of my questions to this forum is to get some statements about the apparent Savannah project policy whereas submissions are judged and not accepted/rejected by individual members of the Savannah team based solely on their personal and subjective opinions. My submission is merely an example of such a thing going on, and that is a fact we can all verify. Nothing people said about my code so far has been at all relevant to the questions I am asking or the claims I am making. In particular, I am not claiming that the Savannah project should accept my submission; I am not even claiming that the Savannah project must stick to objective criteria for rejecting submissions. All of this is entirely within the purview of the Savannah project, and I am definitely not a part of it in any way. All I want is a policy statement about applying subjective tests to submissions, or at least some opinions from the members of the Savannah other than my reviewer. To this I believe I am entitled as an FSF member, since we are endorsing the Savannah project as a "hosting service". Being a hosting service, I presumed, should automatically exclude any attempts from the Savannah team to assume creative control over submissions: either tacitly, by refusing to accept them without reason, or explicitly, as is the case with my submission. Finally, I want to ask you, Tom, a question which I believe will elucidate the issue. What would you personally do given the following hypothetical scenario: Tomorrow you wake up to find one of your own Savannah-hosted projects suspended/removed. Upon inquiring why, you get the following reply from a single Savannah project member: "This project does not seem to be generally useful. This is my personal subjective opinion, and it does not coincide with yours." What's your next move? And here's another hypothetical scenario, starts the same way, and the message you get is: "The formatting of the non-functional whitespace indentation in your code is too ugly. You could fix it, for example, by making sure that the indentation levels are uniform throughout: 2 spaces for the first level, 4 for the second, and so on." What's your next move? Before you point out that your code is too obviously pretty and useful compared to mine for it to be blacklisted, I want to stress that it's most definitely not in the court of subjective personal opinions. On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 4:32 PM, Thomas Harding wrote: > Answer is : no to all. Having only 2 projets hosteds for approximately 10 > years. > > In fact, they are parts done as personal job for an hardware database I > written, wich fitted the needs at work and has been superseded 7 or 8 years > later. I would never upload it to Savannah. > > The other one is PHP::PRINT::IPP. I primarily hosted it on "PHP classes", > but didn't one the "need to register" process and was unsure at time of any > other repository (who owns ?). Also PHP was trend-setting web programming > and frameworks not yet. It has been forked by unknowns on some code > repositories in order to be integrated in some frameworks, but no one wants > to do the job :-/ > > Ecosystem is full of "Personal job", and sysadmin scripting is PJ by > destination. You will most likely face maintainance alone, with too few bug > reports from rare users. > > Le 1 mars 2017 18:49:48 GMT+01:00, john smith > a écrit : > >Dear Thomas Harding, > > > >I would like to address your concerns, but in order to give a > >meaningful > >reply I first need you to clarify one thing for me: > > > >Are you a mere *user* of the Savannah hosting, using it as a platform > >to > >share your own projects, such as "PHP code128 barcode", or are you a > >contributor to the Savannah project proper? In other words, are you > >affiliated with the Savannah project? Yet another way to answer my > >question > >is to see if you can answer "yes" to any of the following: > > > >Do you have access to the Savannah project infrastructure which is > >above > >that of a mere user? Ar
Re: [Savannah-users] what are the usefulness criteria for submitted code?
> I am the administrator of one of the Savannah packages, > and not a Savannah administrator. Thanks for making this clear. > http://savannah.gnu.org/register/requirements.php This list I am aware of, and to my best knowledge I am in full compliance, which is as much as confirmed by the reviewer, who never brought up any of these *objective* rejection criteria. > http://www.gnu.org/help/evaluation.html I have made it abundantly clear to the reviewer that I want to maintain complete creative control over my project, and have no desire to adjoin it to GNU. > The servers that run the Savannah hosting are run by > volunteers and paid for by donations. It's impossible > for Savannah to host every project... I'll cut you off right here if I may. What we have here is an apparent rejection of a *single* ~120 KiB project. It is ludicrous to claim that accepting my project, or any other project similar to mine would imply that Savannah has to accept *every* project. I am not saying you are claiming it, I am just saying, I hope you don't. > ... so I can see why the Savannah hackers would want > to apply some subjective criteria to help focus the > limited resources. And I don't see that at all. I am convinced that whatever abuse exists (does any exists, by the way? and how much of it?), it can be dealt with by applying *objective* rejection criteria. This is, of course, my personal opinion, but if any Savannah project member wanted to refute it, they could easily do so by providing the evidence of attempted abuse, so that we can judge its scope by ourselves. I very much doubt the Savannah team has the problem you are alluding to. I would not be at all surprised if the amount of evidence they have for hosting-crippling abuse via tiny and functional shell code is similar to that for the evidence of illegal immigrant voters throwing the last US presidential elections. Who in the world would abuse Savannah in this way, when it takes 6 minutes (I checked) on GitLab, from reading the instructions on creating an account to having a working public git repo? This is not an endorsement of GitLab or any other slimy hosting services, just an observation. > Your options at this point are either to wait > for another Savannah hacker to agree with > you and overrule ineiev, This would move things in the right direction, in my personal opinion, but I have to be frank: what I have seen thus far will force me to keep inquiring about a policy statement from a Savannah team, since that's the only thing I am after right now. This current inquiry is not about getting my project approved. The approval forum linked upthread is a more proper place for the approval discussion. > or to make improvements to your code to make > it more general-purpose and applicable to a > wider audience. This would not help. My reviewer was abundantly clear that the code changes would have to be made with the goal of convincing *him* *personally* it meets his subjective "general usefulness" criteria, which is pretty much the opposite of what you are saying. And even if the entire Savannah team comes to his side, the force of my argument will not diminish in the slightest, since the subjective opinion is a subjective opinion even in the case when it's a project-wide consensus. You are right about one thing: all I can do right now is to patiently wait until an actual Savannah administrator addresses my concerns.
