Re: [sage-devel] SSL
Hi
On 23 September 2015 at 19:20, Thierry
wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 06:56:41PM +0200, Jan Groenewald wrote:
> [...]
> > Basic question: What does it take to enable SSL? Do those commands work
> on
> > 1) source build
>
> On Debian/Ubuntu just install 'libssl-dev' before building, and 'openssl'
> before running.
>
Building from source now to test this later.
>
> > 2) binary (LTS)
>
> Sage is compiled with ssl support, so just install 'openssl' before
> running.
>
>
Not out of the box. But with pyopenssl. This is from your binary:
0 jan@muizenberg:/srv/sysadm/t/thierry-sage-6.8-x86_64-Linux$./sage
┌┐
│ SageMath Version 6.8, Release Date: 2015-07-26 │
│ Type "notebook()" for the browser-based notebook interface.│
│ Type "help()" for help.│
└┘
The Sage installation tree has moved
from /opt/sagemath_tmonteil-ubuntu-trusty-64/sage-6.8
to /srv/sysadm/t/thierry-sage-6.8-x86_64-Linux
Updating various hardcoded paths...
(Please wait at most a few minutes.)
DO NOT INTERRUPT THIS.
notebookDone updating
paths.
sage: sage:
sage:
sage: notebook(secure=True)
---
RuntimeError Traceback (most recent call last)
in ()
> 1 notebook(secure=True)
/srv/sysadm/t/sage-6.8-x86_64-Linux/src/sage/misc/lazy_import.pyx in
sage.misc.lazy_import.LazyImport.__call__
(/opt/sagemath_tmonteil-ubuntu-trusty-64/sage-6.8/src/build/cythonized/sage/misc/lazy_import.c:3457)()
381 True
382 """
--> 383 return self._get_object()(*args, **kwds)
384
385 def __repr__(self):
/srv/sysadm/t/sage-6.8-x86_64-Linux/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sagenb-0.11.4-py2.7.egg/sagenb/notebook/notebook_object.py
in __call__(self, *args, **kwds)
237 """
238 def __call__(self, *args, **kwds):
--> 239 return self.notebook(*args, **kwds)
240
241 notebook = run_notebook.notebook_run
/srv/sysadm/t/sage-6.8-x86_64-Linux/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sagenb-0.11.4-py2.7.egg/sagenb/notebook/run_notebook.py
in notebook_run(self, directory, port, interface, port_tries, secure,
reset, accounts, openid, server_pool, ulimit, timeout, doc_timeout, upload,
automatic_login, start_path, fork, quiet, server, profile, subnets,
require_login, open_viewer, address)
474 import OpenSSL
475 except ImportError:
--> 476 raise RuntimeError("HTTPS cannot be used without
pyOpenSSL"
477 " installed. See the Sage README for more
information.")
478
RuntimeError: HTTPS cannot be used without pyOpenSSL installed. See the
Sage README for more information.
sage:
0 jan@muizenberg:/srv/sysadm/t/thierry-sage-6.8-x86_64-Linux$*./sage -pip
install pyopenssl*
You are using pip version 6.1.1, however version 7.1.2 is available.
You should consider upgrading via the 'pip install --upgrade pip' command.
Collecting pyopenssl
Downloading pyOpenSSL-0.15.1-py2.py3-none-any.whl (102kB)
100% || 106kB 168kB/s
Requirement already satisfied (use --upgrade to upgrade): six>=1.5.2 in
./local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/six-1.9.0-py2.7.egg (from pyopenssl)
Collecting cryptography>=0.7 (from pyopenssl)
Downloading cryptography-1.0.2.tar.gz (332kB)
100% || 335kB 610kB/s
Collecting idna>=2.0 (from cryptography>=0.7->pyopenssl)
Downloading idna-2.0-py2.py3-none-any.whl (61kB)
100% || 61kB 1.9MB/s
Collecting pyasn1>=0.1.8 (from cryptography>=0.7->pyopenssl)
Downloading pyasn1-0.1.9-py2.py3-none-any.whl
Requirement already satisfied (use --upgrade to upgrade): setuptools in
./local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/setuptools-12.4-py2.7.egg (from
cryptography>=0.7->pyopenssl)
Collecting enum34 (from cryptography>=0.7->pyopenssl)
Downloading enum34-1.0.4.tar.gz
Collecting ipaddress (from cryptography>=0.7->pyopenssl)
Downloading ipaddress-1.0.14-py27-none-any.whl
Collecting cffi>=1.1.0 (from cryptography>=0.7->pyopenssl)
Downloading cffi-1.2.1.tar.gz (335kB)
100% || 335kB 658kB/s
Collecting pycparser (from cffi>=1.1.0->cryptography>=0.7->pyopenssl)
Downloading pycparser-2.14.tar.gz (223kB)
100% || 225kB 880kB/s
Installing collected packages: idna, pyasn1, enum34, ipaddress, pycparser,
cffi, cryptography, pyopenssl
Running setup.py install for enum34
Running setup.py install for pycparser
Running setup.py install for cffi
Running setup.py install for cryptography
Successfully installed cffi-1.2.1 cryptography-1.0.2 enum34-1.0.4 idna-2.0
ipaddress-1.0.14 pyasn1-0.1.9 pycparser-2.14 pyopenssl-0.15.1
0 jan@muizenberg:/srv/sysadm/t/thierry-sage-6.
Re: [sage-devel] SSL
Hi
On 29 September 2015 at 12:21, Jan Groenewald wrote:
> Hi
>
> On 23 September 2015 at 19:20, Thierry
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 06:56:41PM +0200, Jan Groenewald wrote:
>> [...]
>> > Basic question: What does it take to enable SSL? Do those commands work
>> on
>> > 1) source build
>>
>> On Debian/Ubuntu just install 'libssl-dev' before building, and 'openssl'
>> before running.
>>
>
> Building from source now to test this later.
>
From-Source is worst, same as the binaries: needs sage -pip install
pyopenssl, but even that look ssuccessful and then the notebook still does
not see it!
0 jan@muizenberg:/srv/sysadm/t/sage-6.8$./sage
┌┐
│ SageMath Version 6.8, Release Date: 2015-07-26 │
│ Type "notebook()" for the browser-based notebook interface.│
│ Type "help()" for help.│
└┘
sage: notebook(secure=True)
---
RuntimeError Traceback (most recent call last)
in ()
> 1 notebook(secure=True)
/srv/sysadm/t/sage-6.8/src/sage/misc/lazy_import.pyx in
sage.misc.lazy_import.LazyImport.__call__
(/srv/sysadm/t/sage-6.8/src/build/cythonized/sage/misc/lazy_import.c:3457)()
381 True
382 """
--> 383 return self._get_object()(*args, **kwds)
384
385 def __repr__(self):
/srv/sysadm/t/sage-6.8/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sagenb-0.11.4-py2.7.egg/sagenb/notebook/notebook_object.py
in __call__(self, *args, **kwds)
237 """
238 def __call__(self, *args, **kwds):
--> 239 return self.notebook(*args, **kwds)
240
241 notebook = run_notebook.notebook_run
/srv/sysadm/t/sage-6.8/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sagenb-0.11.4-py2.7.egg/sagenb/notebook/run_notebook.py
in notebook_run(self, directory, port, interface, port_tries, secure,
reset, accounts, openid, server_pool, ulimit, timeout, doc_timeout, upload,
automatic_login, start_path, fork, quiet, server, profile, subnets,
require_login, open_viewer, address)
474 import OpenSSL
475 except ImportError:
--> 476 raise RuntimeError("HTTPS cannot be used without
pyOpenSSL"
477 " installed. See the Sage README for more
information.")
478
RuntimeError: HTTPS cannot be used without pyOpenSSL installed. See the
Sage README for more information.
sage:
Exiting Sage (CPU time 0m0.65s, Wall time 0m11.54s).
0 jan@muizenberg:/srv/sysadm/t/sage-6.8$./sage -pip install pyopenssl
You are using pip version 6.1.1, however version 7.1.2 is available.
You should consider upgrading via the 'pip install --upgrade pip' command.
Collecting pyopenssl
Using cached pyOpenSSL-0.15.1-py2.py3-none-any.whl
Requirement already satisfied (use --upgrade to upgrade): six>=1.5.2 in
./local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/six-1.9.0-py2.7.egg (from pyopenssl)
Collecting cryptography>=0.7 (from pyopenssl)
Using cached cryptography-1.0.2.tar.gz
Collecting idna>=2.0 (from cryptography>=0.7->pyopenssl)
Using cached idna-2.0-py2.py3-none-any.whl
Collecting pyasn1>=0.1.8 (from cryptography>=0.7->pyopenssl)
Using cached pyasn1-0.1.9-py2.py3-none-any.whl
Requirement already satisfied (use --upgrade to upgrade): setuptools in
./local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/setuptools-12.4-py2.7.egg (from
cryptography>=0.7->pyopenssl)
Collecting enum34 (from cryptography>=0.7->pyopenssl)
Using cached enum34-1.0.4.tar.gz
Collecting ipaddress (from cryptography>=0.7->pyopenssl)
Using cached ipaddress-1.0.14-py27-none-any.whl
Collecting cffi>=1.1.0 (from cryptography>=0.7->pyopenssl)
Using cached cffi-1.2.1.tar.gz
Collecting pycparser (from cffi>=1.1.0->cryptography>=0.7->pyopenssl)
Using cached pycparser-2.14.tar.gz
Installing collected packages: idna, pyasn1, enum34, ipaddress, pycparser,
cffi, cryptography, pyopenssl
Running setup.py install for enum34
Running setup.py install for pycparser
Running setup.py install for cffi
Running setup.py install for cryptography
Successfully installed cffi-1.2.1 cryptography-1.0.2 enum34-1.0.4 idna-2.0
ipaddress-1.0.14 pyasn1-0.1.9 pycparser-2.14 pyopenssl-0.15.1
0 jan@muizenberg:/srv/sysadm/t/sage-6.8$sage
┌┐
│ SageMath Version 6.8, Release Date: 2015-07-26 │
│ Type "notebook()" for the browser-based notebook interface.│
│ Type "help()" for help.│
└┘
sage: notebook(secure=True)
---
RuntimeError Traceback (most recent call last)
in ()
> 1 notebook(secure=True)
/usr/lib/sagemath/src/sa
[sage-devel] installing patchbot takes very long on 6.9.rc0
I've installed a patchbot via sage -i http://chapoton.perso.math.cnrs.fr/patchbot-2.3.9.spkg as suggested on http://wiki.sagemath.org/buildbot/details on 6.9.rc0 and it took about 2 hours of recompilation. This was much faster in some of the beta before (I think it was 6.9.beta5). Why? Best Daniel -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] installing patchbot takes very long on 6.9.rc0
on 6.9.rc0 and it took about 2 hours of recompilation. This was much faster in some of the beta before (I think it was 6.9.beta5). Why? https://groups.google.com/d/topic/sage-devel/nLDOLvjKp3A -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] random output of graphviz_string()
Dear graphviz enthousiasts, The file src/sage/graphs/generic_graph.py has a function graphviz_string() with many doctests. However, these doctests are bad because they depend on implementation details, in particular the order of keys in a dict. This causes serious doctest failures on #19304, where the hash function for Rational is changed. Since the output is even different on 32-bit and 64-bit systems and the tests are very long, the only solution I see is to add "# random" to most of the graphviz_string() tests. But I'm open for suggestions... Jeroen. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?
On 28 September 2015 at 19:37, William Stein wrote: > > 1. Magma is also an Ma. Magma's incredibly good at pure mathematics. > You seem to be leaving out Magma above. > I admit I know basically nothing about Magma (I did not know it even existed before joining this list :). > 2. You say "... better served in the Python space by the > Numpy/SciPy/SymPy/Matplotlib stack as an alternative to the Ma's > rather than SAGE." Sage includes "Numpy/SciPy/SymPy/Matplotlib", so > we don't have to worry about that chunk of people with respect to our > mission statement. > I can install the NSPM stack on any modern platform (Windows included) with pip (or my distro's package manger, if I am on linux) in probably less than 5 minutes with a reasonable internet connection. I don't have to worry about sizeable downloads, virtual machines, containers, emulation layers a-la cygwin, installing a separate compiler toolchain/python version/set of libraries, or anything of the sort. It is true that you can use the NSPM stack from SAGE, but what are the key advantages of doing so? It is a honest question, maybe there's something I am overlooking. 3. There is a lot more to mathematics than just what Magma does and > *also* much more to it than just what Numpy/SciPy/SymPy/Matplotlib do. > There's a huge amount of interesting things that could be > systematically computed with in mathematics that no existing package > does yet. > Yes, nobody has the monopoly on what "mathematics on a computer" means :) My comment was merely a marketing/strategic one: I think there exists a disconnect between the mission statement and what SAGE actually is (and maybe what the SAGE community wants it to be). Cheers, Francesco. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Iterator over product of infinite iterators
In #19048, an iterator iterating over the cartesian product of two possibly infinite iterators is needed. This can for instance be implemented by the Cantor pairing function https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pairing_function#Cantor_pairing_function , i.e. the well-known proof that the product of two countable sets is countable. Does such an iterator exist in sage? I found the sage.misc.mrange module, but I do not have the impression that it deals with infinite iterators. Regards, Clemens Heuberger -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: random output of graphviz_string()
We could just sort vertices/edges in graphviz_string. In the cases where that is a performance problem its unlikely that you can compile the graphviz code anyways. On Tuesday, September 29, 2015 at 4:13:08 PM UTC+2, Jeroen Demeyer wrote: > > Dear graphviz enthousiasts, > > The file src/sage/graphs/generic_graph.py has a function > graphviz_string() with many doctests. However, these doctests are bad > because they depend on implementation details, in particular the order > of keys in a dict. This causes serious doctest failures on #19304, where > the hash function for Rational is changed. > > Since the output is even different on 32-bit and 64-bit systems and the > tests are very long, the only solution I see is to add "# random" to > most of the graphviz_string() tests. But I'm open for suggestions... > > > Jeroen. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?
Given the serious situation in Sage funding I suppose that there is still a good reason for continuing this thread. On 28 September 2015 at 13:37, William Stein wrote: > > On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 10:25 AM, Francesco Biscani > wrote: > >> Exactly. And also the mission statement: viable alternative to the Ma's - > >> that is tricky! > > > > I have always felt a tad confused and mislead by this statement. > > > > As someone who has interacted over the years with physicists and engineers > > using daily Mathematica, Maple and Matlab, I see very little overlap between > > their typical use of these tools and the typical usages of SAGE, at least > > from the point of view of a lurker on this list. > ... > 1. Magma is also an Ma. Magma's incredibly good at pure mathematics. > You seem to be leaving out Magma above. > With emphasis on "physicists and engineers" I completely agree with Francesco. I am not aware of any physicists or engineers who use Magma. I never heard of Magma before Sage and I still find Magma of little interest - for physics or engineering. Perhaps I just do not know what I am are missing? Meanwhile I admit that I do know something about Axiom, another system that might be accused of catering to pure mathematics, and I have used it in theoretical physics. And I have also used Sage, or more specifically "Numpy/SciPy/SymPy/Matplotlib" (not to forget also Maxima and probably several other packages transparently wrapped up in Sage) on SMC. Because my collaborator has less tolerance for the current idiosyncrasies of SMC and Sage and a greater familiarity with Maple, I recently back ported one of my more complicated Sage worksheets to Maple. I found it a bit challenging. I have also used Maple for a long time but it turned out that I had used some features in Sage and Numpy for which I did not immediately know the Maple counterpart. However the final result was just fine and convinced me that in many ways Sage is definitely an alternative to Maple even though it may seem more viable to some people than others. > > It seems like SAGE caters > > to (and is run mostly by) researchers in pure mathematics, and that is > > little interest on other use cases. Pragmatically, it seems to me that a > > sizeable chunk of people "doing mathematics on a computer" is today > > better served in the Python space by the Numpy/SciPy/SymPy/Matplotlib > > stack as an alternative to the Ma's rather than SAGE. > > > 2. You say "... better served in the Python space by the > Numpy/SciPy/SymPy/Matplotlib stack as an alternative to the Ma's > rather than SAGE." Sage includes "Numpy/SciPy/SymPy/Matplotlib", > so we don't have to worry about that chunk of people with respect to > our mission statement. > This seems odd from the point of view of marketing strategy. If "Numpy/SciPy/SymPy/Matplotlib" is already an alternative to the Ma's (minus Magma), then is the only point of Sage to add the missing features of Magma? In terms of attracting funding for Sage, I would be worried about showing that Sage provides some obvious added value over just "Numpy/SciPy/SymPy/Matplotlib" for those users. In this regard it is kind of interesting to read: https://github.com/sympy/sympy/wiki/SymPy-vs.-Magma Of course it is a kind of advertisement for Sympy, but something like this might be appropriate for Sage. SMC as a platform on the other hand seems much more agnostic and hopefully is attract some of these users, although there does seem to be some significant competition using a similar tool set. > > This is of course completely fine! I am not questioning anyone's motives, > > inclinations or desires. But IMO continuing to push the idea that SAGE > > aims to be a viable alternative to the Ma's tout-court risks of being a > > source of confusion. > > 3. There is a lot more to mathematics than just what Magma does and > *also* much more to it than just what Numpy/SciPy/SymPy/Matplotlib > do. There's a huge amount of interesting things that could be > systematically computed with in mathematics that no existing package > does yet. > The point being that this is not explicitly part of the Sage "mission statement". Of course there are quite a few people who seem to be trying to do this with Sage but I am not sure whether Sage is more or less an viable alternative for this purpose than an of the Ma's. When it comes to doing new mathematics the flexibility of Python and the complexity of the Sage development infrastructure both seem daunting compared to the tightly integrated mathematics library in a system like Axiom (FriCAS). Bill Page. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups
Re: [sage-devel] installing patchbot takes very long on 6.9.rc0
Hello, By the way, patchbot 2.3.9 is somehow outdated. The latest version can be found at ticket #18937 http://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/18937 (Needs review) I would suggest using this version instead. I am not sure that 2.3.9 will work correctly. Frederic Le mardi 29 septembre 2015 16:06:12 UTC+2, Jeroen Demeyer a écrit : > > > on 6.9.rc0 and it took about 2 hours of recompilation. This was much > > faster in some of the beta before (I think it was 6.9.beta5). Why? > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/sage-devel/nLDOLvjKp3A > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: Iterator over product of infinite iterators
Not that I know. "The logic is there" in "list(QQ)" but not in "list(ZZ**2)". I remember that there was a jurisprudence somewhere that "all elements of a countable set must have a finite rank in the order of .__iter__()". i.e., that list(ZZ**2) cannot be (0,0), (1,0), (-1,0), (2,0), (-2,0), ... Add me in Cc for the review if you write the code. Nathann -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?
On Tuesday, 29 September 2015 10:06:56 UTC-7, Bill Page wrote: > > Given the serious situation in Sage funding I suppose that there is > still a good reason for continuing this thread. > > On 28 September 2015 at 13:37, William Stein > wrote: > > > > On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 10:25 AM, Francesco Biscani > > > wrote: > > >> Exactly. And also the mission statement: viable alternative to the > Ma's - > > >> that is tricky! > > > > > > I have always felt a tad confused and mislead by this statement. > > > > > > As someone who has interacted over the years with physicists and > engineers > > > using daily Mathematica, Maple and Matlab, I see very little overlap > between > > > their typical use of these tools and the typical usages of SAGE, at > least > > > from the point of view of a lurker on this list. > > ... > > 1. Magma is also an Ma. Magma's incredibly good at pure mathematics. > > You seem to be leaving out Magma above. > > > > With emphasis on "physicists and engineers" I completely agree with > Francesco. I am not aware of any physicists or engineers who use > Magma. cryptographers (some of them can certainly qualify as engineers) use Magma a lot. > I never heard of Magma before Sage and I still find Magma of > little interest - for physics or engineering. Perhaps I just do not > know what I am are missing? Meanwhile I admit that I do know something > about Axiom, another system that might be accused of catering to pure > mathematics, and I have used it in theoretical physics. And I have > also used Sage, or more specifically "Numpy/SciPy/SymPy/Matplotlib" > (not to forget also Maxima and probably several other packages > transparently wrapped up in Sage) on SMC. > > Because my collaborator has less tolerance for the current > idiosyncrasies of SMC and Sage and a greater familiarity with Maple, I > recently back ported one of my more complicated Sage worksheets to > Maple. I found it a bit challenging. I have also used Maple for a > long time but it turned out that I had used some features in Sage and > Numpy for which I did not immediately know the Maple counterpart. > However the final result was just fine and convinced me that in many > ways Sage is definitely an alternative to Maple even though it may > seem more viable to some people than others. > > > > It seems like SAGE caters > > > to (and is run mostly by) researchers in pure mathematics, and that is > > > little interest on other use cases. Pragmatically, it seems to me that > a > > > sizeable chunk of people "doing mathematics on a computer" is today > > > better served in the Python space by the Numpy/SciPy/SymPy/Matplotlib > > > stack as an alternative to the Ma's rather than SAGE. > > > > > 2. You say "... better served in the Python space by the > > Numpy/SciPy/SymPy/Matplotlib stack as an alternative to the Ma's > > rather than SAGE." Sage includes "Numpy/SciPy/SymPy/Matplotlib", > > so we don't have to worry about that chunk of people with respect to > > our mission statement. > > > > This seems odd from the point of view of marketing strategy. If > "Numpy/SciPy/SymPy/Matplotlib" is already an alternative to the Ma's > (minus Magma), then is the only point of Sage to add the missing > features of Magma? In terms of attracting funding for Sage, I would > be worried about showing that Sage provides some obvious added value > over just "Numpy/SciPy/SymPy/Matplotlib" for those users. > > In this regard it is kind of interesting to read: > > https://github.com/sympy/sympy/wiki/SymPy-vs.-Magma > > Of course it is a kind of advertisement for Sympy, but something like > this might be appropriate for Sage. > > SMC as a platform on the other hand seems much more agnostic and > hopefully is attract some of these users, although there does seem to > be some significant competition using a similar tool set. > > > > This is of course completely fine! I am not questioning anyone's > motives, > > > inclinations or desires. But IMO continuing to push the idea that SAGE > > > aims to be a viable alternative to the Ma's tout-court risks of being > a > > > source of confusion. > > > > 3. There is a lot more to mathematics than just what Magma does and > > *also* much more to it than just what Numpy/SciPy/SymPy/Matplotlib > > do. There's a huge amount of interesting things that could be > > systematically computed with in mathematics that no existing package > > does yet. > > > > The point being that this is not explicitly part of the Sage "mission > statement". Of course there are quite a few people who seem to be > trying to do this with Sage but I am not sure whether Sage is more or > less an viable alternative for this purpose than an of the Ma's. When > it comes to doing new mathematics the flexibility of Python and the > complexity of the Sage development infrastructure both seem daunting > compared to the tightly integrated mathematics librar
Re: [sage-devel] Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?
On 29 September 2015 at 19:41, Dima Pasechnik wrote: > > cryptographers (some of them can certainly qualify as engineers) use Magma a > lot. > OK. Would you say that Sage is a viable alternative for them? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?
On Tuesday, September 29, 2015 at 4:44:07 PM UTC+2, bluescarni wrote: > > It is true that you can use the NSPM stack from SAGE, but what are the key > advantages of doing so? It is a honest question, maybe there's something I > am overlooking. > In calculus you still want to have Maxima's integrator even if symbolics are nicer with SymPy. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?
On Tuesday, September 29, 2015, Bill Page wrote: > On 29 September 2015 at 19:41, Dima Pasechnik > wrote: > > > > cryptographers (some of them can certainly qualify as engineers) use > Magma a lot. > > > > OK. Would you say that Sage is a viable alternative for them? > > No. Going into details would be too technical but overall sage is not a viable alternative to magma for most crypto researchers. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "sage-devel" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . > To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com > . > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Sent from my massive iPhone 6 plus. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
