[sage-devel] Re: 4.1.1.alpha0 Installation just 'dying' for no known reason

[Minh Nguyen]

Hi David,

On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 9:51 AM, Dr. David
Kirkby wrote:



> I thought ATLAS would build! I believe if you should be able to get up
> to the point where the  sage-4.1.1.spkg gets going. I think the
> installation will fail there due to two separate bugs.
>
> At least now the impact of not fully tuning the ATLAS code will only be
> seen on sun4v machines, not all of them. Perhaps you can review the
> atlas patch, which is about as simple as they go.
> http://sagetrac.org/sage_trac/ticket/6558

Positive review. The SPKG at

http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/mvngu/patch/atlas-3.8.3.p6.spkg

has been merged into Sage 4.1.1.alpha1.


> Since polybori-0.5rc.p9 built for you, perhaps you can look at:
> http://sagetrac.org/sage_trac/ticket/6437

I have closed this as a duplicate of ticket #6528 since the latter
incorporates all the fixes from #6437. Ticket #6528 has received
positive review. The SPKG at

http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/mvngu/patch/polybori-0.5rc.p9.spkg

has been merged in Sage 4.1.1.alpha1.


> Perhaps you could try the revised MPFR patch,
> http://sagetrac.org/sage_trac/ticket/6453
> Note however, the version of gcc you used (4.2.4), did not actually
> exhibit the problem, which is why I changed the default gcc. But I have
> confirmed it passes with the latest gcc now.
>
> It is NOT a bug in gcc 4.4.0, but Sun have admitted this is a bug in
> Solaris. The fix allows MPFR to build on any machine, with any version
> of gcc and pass all tests with no impact on performance except on sun4v
> machines.

Positive review. The SPKG at

http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/mvngu/patch/mpfr-2.4.1.p0.spkg

has been merged in Sage 4.1.1.alpha1.


> I noticed my patch to singular worked for you
> http://sagetrac.org/sage_trac/ticket/6563
> There is probably a better solution than that one. The singular
> installation appears to be broken by a patch added to Sage to
> patches/kernel.Makefile.in.diff.

Positive review. The SPKG at

http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/mvngu/patch/singular-3-1-0-2-20090620.p0.spkg

has been merged in Sage 4.1.1.alpha1.


> I don't know if you can shed any light onto what that patch was supposed
> to fix, as it seems have changed 'cp' for the 'install-sh' program and
> broke the installation in the process.
>
> I seem to be slacking at the minute, as there are only 4 Solaris patches
> needing review!!

Not any more :-)

-- 
Regards
Minh Van Nguyen

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[sage-devel] Re: Suppressing warning messages - not a good idea IMHO

[Dr. David Kirkby]

William Stein wrote:
> Hi David,
> 
> I'm cc'ing this on to Mike Rubinstein, the author of lcalc, in case he
> has any comments.
> 
> William

Thank you.

I've not looked at the compiler warnings - the only warning messages I 
actually noticed was from the Sun assembler, as it did not did not 
understand the -W flag, which it is not supposed to. Despite that 
warning message, I believe the Sun assembler would have converted the 
assembly code to object files.

The -Wno-deprecated flag, which went directly to gcc would have 
suppressed any warnings about  deprecated code, so I would have not seen 
them anyway.

It's hard to understand why the person that wrote the spkg-install 
wanted to suppress warnings from the assembler. I did not see any 
assembly code being compiled, only C. In which case, no matter how old 
the C code is, I would be surprised if it generated any warnings from 
the assembler. The C compiler should convert bad old-style C into 
perfect assembly code.

Perhaps there is some hand-written assembly code for x86 and that would 
have obviously not been used on the SPARC. Even if that was the case, 
(and I doubt it), the assembler should really be called directly, not 
via a C compiler.

It seems to me the Sage spkg-install is badly written. I've not looked 
at source code for lcalc itself, so can't comment on that.

Dave

> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 8:46 PM, Dr. David
> Kirkby wrote:
>> Looking at the CFLAGS in the spkg-install of lcalc-20080205.p2, I see:
>>
>> CFLAGS="$CFLAGS -O2 -g -Wa,-W -fno-exceptions -Wno-deprecated"
>>
>> -Wal,-W will suppress warnings from the assembler (IF the GNU assembler
>> is used).
>>
>> -Wno-deprecated is a gcc flag to remove warnings about deprecated headers.
>>
>> What excuse is there really for suppressing warnings like this? None of
>> us like seeing warnings messages, but hiding them is not a good idea.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
> 
> 
> 


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[sage-devel] barriers to community growth

[Minh Nguyen]

Hi folks,

I just come across a document outlining some barriers to growing a
community around an open source project. You can get it at this blog
post:

http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2009/07/22/barriers-to-community-growth/

In the meantime, Jono Bacon's book "The Art of Community" is still not
yet published. But when it is, you might want to have a read through
it for ideas on building/nurturing an open source community.

In other news, you might want to try this quiz from Linux Journal:

http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/how-mutch-money-do-you-spend-year-buying-or-supporting-open-source-software

-- 
Regards
Minh Van Nguyen

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[sage-devel] Re: Sagemath with Phone

[Sergey Semerikov]

On Jul 24, 8:33 am, NoSyu  wrote:
>   Now I make the WAP Page in Sagemath notebook.

A good job! But it have some potential problems (I apologize for
stress tests, which could result in a higher server load):

1. wap_test_01 - a virtual user. Every WAP-call creates a new
worksheet at http://math1.skku.ac.kr/home/wap_test_01, and intensive
use lead to wasting of wap_test_01 notebook. Possible solution - to do
"groundhog day" (proposed by Dan Drake) or remove "old" worksheets.

2. Access denied to any data, associated with cell. For example,
worksheet http://math1.skku.ac.kr/home/pub/191/ has a link
http://math1.skku.ac.kr/home/wap_test_01/98/cells/0/full_output.txt,
which can't be retrieved any way.

3. Bugs (features): a) string constants must be only 'string', not
"string"; b) single '/' must be changed on '//': sh.eval('dir //').

It will be very nice if output would be typesetted with jsmath or
shown as sage->latex->dvi->png.

Sincerely, Sergey
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[sage-devel] Re: Fwd: CoMarketing: Sage & Sun

[Harald Schilly]

On Jul 23, 7:09 pm, rjf  wrote:
> Regarding Sage running on a server:  some of the components may be
> sufficiently general as to pose hazards in a server environment.  For
> example, Maxima can create and delete files, quickly fill up all
> available memory, etc.  I would guess that other components are also
> hazardous.  It seems to me that the only practical solution is to run
> Sage in a virtual machine on the server, which may be costly. Is that
> what is being proposed?

yes, a c compiler is also a requirement for sage, therefore
potentially everything could happen.
uhm, i think, a possible way would be to split data and processing.
this means, there is a central switch point from the outside network,
it knows about many sage systems running in virtual environments (one
benefit is, that they can be reset very quickly, restoring their
files, ...) and it picks one of them for a user. on the "back side" is
a data storage for each user, that is also connected to the selected
sage instance. if a sage fails, just the session is killed, not the
data.

also about the hazards, it should be possible to make things more
secure. but that's complicated. one thing that comes to my mind with
compiling c code is the "native client" approach by google. it tries
to run native code inside a webbrowser. to avoid hazards, there is a
checker for the compiled code before it is executed!
http://code.google.com/p/nativeclient/
http://nativeclient.googlecode.com/svn/data/docs_tarball/nacl/googleclient/native_client/documentation/nacl_paper.pdf
I don't know the details, but Sage has a similar "problem" ;)

>
> Regarding Sage adoption by schools -- there is a large literature on
> computer algebra and teaching.[...] Will using Sage help
> weak students? Also for many students, math courses are an (unwelcome)
> requirement. Will they change because of Sage?
> 
>  If a student just doesn't understand (say)  what is a function, or
> what is a group, will a computer program help?

Uhm, i think that's too complicated to say anything definitely about
those questions. Although they are very important.

I think, one very useful and interesting "test" could be the
following: stick together three average students (not only maths, also
physics ...) without any or only limited prior knowledge of Sage, with
Sage on one PC and let them do their homework together on that
computer. a video cam watches them and also one for the monitor! I
expect them to get angry and probably fail to use Sage, but that would
give a lot of information how they tried to use the product, where
they expected things to be, and so on.
And yes, I think it would help some students to understand what a
group or ring is if it is programmable in sage - but I say only some,
others might be confused or more happy with another approach! I think
there is no golden way that fits for all students, but more
opportunities and more representations of the same idea help to
abstract it.

H

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[sage-devel] Re: Fwd: CoMarketing: Sage & Sun

[David Kirkby]

2009/7/23 rjf 
>
>
>
> Regarding Sage running on a server:  some of the components may be
> sufficiently general as to pose hazards in a server environment.  For
> example, Maxima can create and delete files, quickly fill up all
> available memory, etc.  I would guess that other components are also
> hazardous.  It seems to me that the only practical solution is to run
> Sage in a virtual machine on the server, which may be costly. Is that
> what is being proposed? Is that what UW Sage servers are doing?

First, I should stage I'm not a Sage user yet. My interest is using in
on Solaris, hence I'm trying to sort that out.

Anything Sage can do, unless it runs as root, which would be unwise, a
norrmal user should be able to do it. All modern systems support
quotas which block excessive disk useage. CPU resources can be limited
too.

I've exhaused memory and swap on a Sun with 8 GB running Mathematica.
Creating huge files, deleting files, using tons of memory are all
things any user program can do.

IF a sage server run as user 'sage' means that user's foo and user bar
have all their files owned by user 'sage' and all CPU resources are
consumed by user 'sage' then that could be an issue. I don't know if
it is, and I suspect it could be circumvented it if is.

I don't really see that CPU and/or disk useage an issue like you do.
>
> If there is an instructor who is excited by a computer program (could
> be one of the M's) he/she can introduce it into the course in some
> way, sometimes.  Evidence at Berkeley is that when that instructor is
> not teaching the course, the computer stuff falls into disuse.
> Students using Mathematica get it (essentially) free for their own
> laptops at their dorm room.
> Those that use it seem to be unconcerned about it being proprietary.
> They are only occasionally concerned that it gets the answers wrong
> sometimes.

The solution to that is to make students aware that propriety systems
(not just the M's) have very serious issues outside academia.

Ask the students to take a look on jobsites and see how many jobs
require Mathematica knowledge. Make them aware, that people that get
it essentially for free at university will find a whole different
situation when they move into employment.Obviously, if they get tenure
at uni this is not such an issue, but it is when you move into the
world outside university.

I've hit this problem myself, which is why I expect to turn away from
Mathematica, despite I do in fact like the program.

After spending some time at uni where I had access to Mathematica, I
took a job at Marconi Optical Components (now defunct). The only
package I could use was Mathcad I think. Getting authorisation to
spend £2000+ pounds on Mathematica, while I was the only user, would
have been hard, despite I had a budget for half a milliion pounds for
test equipment. I also worked in a hostpital - again Mathematica was
not used.

Whilst I'm not a fan of Microsof't office, at least it is widely used
and there is a free version (OpenOffice). The same is not true of
Mathematica.

IMHO, if universities encourage the use of programs like Mathematica,
they are doing their students a dis-service if they don't point out
the downsides to using such software. For me personally, the downsides
of using Mathematica have had little to do with backward compatibily,
little to do with bugs, little to do with its rather strange
interface, little to do with its poor support for debugging.

The BIG problem in using Mathematica is that its use outside academia
is very limited. Sure the WRI site will no doubt tell you its used in
the top 500 companies on Nasdaq or wherever, but in practical terms,
it's not widely used. I see a chart the other day on one of the WRI
videos, showing Mathematica's biggest use is in enginnering. Well, I'm
a 44-year old engineer, have worked for several companies and never
seen it used.

I used to teach on an MSc course some Mathematica 10 or so years ago.
I never pointed this out to my students, as it never occured to me.
When I was at uni, the propriety nature of Mathematica never entered
into my head.


> Any instructor who has been asked, after a particularly beautifully
> delivered lecture/demonstration, "Will this be on the final?"
> may have to say,  oh, I guess not.  You won't be using a computer
> during the final.

Do univeristies in the US have projects as part of degree courses?
That is the time to be using advanced software - not in a final exam.

Dave
>
>
>
>

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[sage-devel] Re: Fwd: CoMarketing: Sage & Sun

[Minh Nguyen]

On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 9:07 PM, David Kirkby wrote:



>> Any instructor who has been asked, after a particularly beautifully
>> delivered lecture/demonstration, "Will this be on the final?"
>> may have to say,  oh, I guess not.  You won't be using a computer
>> during the final.
>
> Do univeristies in the US have projects as part of degree courses?
> That is the time to be using advanced software - not in a final exam.

I have taken a one-semester course on numerical analysis using Maple.
The final exam was worth over 50% of the total mark. We were required
to use a computer with Maple loaded, write Maple programs in response
to exam questions, and submit Maple worksheets to the examiner. I'm
dead serious.

-- 
Regards
Minh Van Nguyen

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[sage-devel] Re: Fwd: CoMarketing: Sage & Sun

[David Kirkby]

2009/7/24 Minh Nguyen :
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 9:07 PM, David Kirkby wrote:
>
> 
>
>>> Any instructor who has been asked, after a particularly beautifully
>>> delivered lecture/demonstration, "Will this be on the final?"
>>> may have to say,  oh, I guess not.  You won't be using a computer
>>> during the final.
>>
>> Do univeristies in the US have projects as part of degree courses?
>> That is the time to be using advanced software - not in a final exam.
>
> I have taken a one-semester course on numerical analysis using Maple.
> The final exam was worth over 50% of the total mark. We were required
> to use a computer with Maple loaded, write Maple programs in response
> to exam questions, and submit Maple worksheets to the examiner. I'm
> dead serious.
>
> --
> Regards
> Minh Van Nguyen

Were the downsides to using a proprietary system explained to the
students? If not, I think that is wrong.

If I were head of an academic department, I think I would put a stop
to lecturers insisting students use software that they are unlikely to
be able to use outside the university. To me, any non-trivual piece of
software takes a long time to learn very well. That's a lot of time
virtually wasted if you can't use the program any more.

Apart from C, I can't recall being told I must use package X for a task.

Dave

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[sage-devel] Re: Fwd: CoMarketing: Sage & Sun

[Minh Nguyen]

On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 9:37 PM, David Kirkby wrote:



>> I have taken a one-semester course on numerical analysis using Maple.
>> The final exam was worth over 50% of the total mark. We were required
>> to use a computer with Maple loaded, write Maple programs in response
>> to exam questions, and submit Maple worksheets to the examiner. I'm
>> dead serious.
>>
>> --
>> Regards
>> Minh Van Nguyen
>
> Were the downsides to using a proprietary system explained to the
> students? If not, I think that is wrong.

The former head of school (the school that was running the course) was
well aware of limitations of mathematics software systems (or computer
algebra system, if you like). But I cannot recall that the course
lecturer talked about downsides of proprietary systems or even maths
software. I *did not* attend any of the lectures.


> If I were head of an academic department, I think I would put a stop
> to lecturers insisting students use software that they are unlikely to
> be able to use outside the university. To me, any non-trivual piece of
> software takes a long time to learn very well. That's a lot of time
> virtually wasted if you can't use the program any more.

Our school, or at least I am, has been investigating free open-source
alternatives to Maple and Matlab. Over a year ago, a senior academic
within the school gave a seminar on Maxima and its uses in maths
research and education.

-- 
Regards
Minh Van Nguyen

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[sage-devel] Re: Fwd: CoMarketing: Sage & Sun

[David Kirkby]

2009/7/24 Minh Nguyen :

> The former head of school (the school that was running the course) was
> well aware of limitations of mathematics software systems (or computer
> algebra system, if you like). But I cannot recall that the course
> lecturer talked about downsides of proprietary systems or even maths
> software. I *did not* attend any of the lectures.

I can't recall this issue ever being pointed out to me at uni.

I never mentioned it to students when I run a short course on Mathematica.

Perhaps the next time a book is written on Sage, this point should be
made more. The best argument I can think of to substantiate my claim
of Mathematica not being used much in industry is the lack of jobs
requiring Mathematica skills. IMHO, that's a pretty convincing
argument for not getting sucked into using it.

BTW, some time back I started to write a comparison of using Sage vs
Mathematica. I never got around to finishing it, but read it here if
you wish.

http://www.g8wrb.org/tmp/sage_ideas/compare/Mathematica/


Dave

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[sage-devel] Re: Suppressing warning messages - not a good idea IMHO

[David Kirkby]

Perhaps there needs to be a rule or coding guideline that attempts to
suppress compiler/linker/assembler warnings must not be used in
spkg-install and similar files.

Perhaps even that new packages that are considered for inclusion to
Sage, should have instances of such measures removed.

Personally I tend to be more skeptical of code that is littered with
GNUisms and compiler warnings, than I would of code that compiles
cleanly and the developer has added the -Wall flag to gcc to show all
warnings.

Dave

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[sage-devel] notebook/tinymce and utf-8 problem

[Sergey Semerikov]

Current settings of notebook/TinyMCE lead to bug with non-ASCII
letters (e.g., cyrillic). Example:
https://sagenb.kaist.ac.kr:8066/home/pub/4/
Applying language packs for TinyMCE not resolve this problem.

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[sage-devel] Re: notebook/tinymce and utf-8 problem

[NoSyu]

Hello

Mayge it can be solved the problem to change the soruce like this.

http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel/browse_thread/thread/e3b8dce14b6375bf/e91f422e0805ed2f?hl=ko



On 7월24일, 오후9시31분, Sergey Semerikov  wrote:
> Current settings of notebook/TinyMCE lead to bug with non-ASCII
> letters (e.g., cyrillic). Example:https://sagenb.kaist.ac.kr:8066/home/pub/4/
> Applying language packs for TinyMCE not resolve this problem.
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[sage-devel] Re: Suppressing warning messages - not a good idea IMHO

[Michael Rubinstein]

I agree. I was just being lazy at some point, and left it like taht.
I'll fix.

Best,
Mike

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009, William Stein wrote:

> Hi David,
>
> I'm cc'ing this on to Mike Rubinstein, the author of lcalc, in case he
> has any comments.
>
> William
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 8:46 PM, Dr. David
> Kirkby wrote:
>>
>> Looking at the CFLAGS in the spkg-install of lcalc-20080205.p2, I see:
>>
>> CFLAGS="$CFLAGS -O2 -g -Wa,-W -fno-exceptions -Wno-deprecated"
>>
>> -Wal,-W will suppress warnings from the assembler (IF the GNU assembler
>> is used).
>>
>> -Wno-deprecated is a gcc flag to remove warnings about deprecated headers.
>>
>> What excuse is there really for suppressing warnings like this? None of
>> us like seeing warnings messages, but hiding them is not a good idea.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> >>
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> William Stein
> Associate Professor of Mathematics
> University of Washington
> http://wstein.org
>

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[sage-devel] Re: Sagemath with Phone

[NoSyu]

Thanks to reply it.

I surprised that sage is accepted sh operation.

Maybe it should be banned.


1.

Yes.

wap_test_01 is virtual user for wap_html page.

and one process by one worksheet.

Maybe I make the delete function automatically when sage notebook is
lauched or whenever.

groundhog day? I don't know about it. I should be search or ask to Dan
Drake. Thanks to give the good information.



2. Oh...

In fact, the reason why it publish the worksheet is that if it do not,
picture is can be seen to anonymous.

But txt file is not...

I search or make another way to solve this problem.



3. String constants?

I don't understand it.

Sorry.



We consider the jsmath, but phone web browser in Korean phone service
can't work javascript code.

So we remove it.

But latex is good.

I make and test it later.



Thanks to test and report it.

And Thanks to send the email with gettext code.

I test it and make the Korean po file.


Have a nice weekend.!




누구나가 다, 자기 옆에서 눈물을 흘리며 신음하는 불행한 사람들에 비해 자기가 훨씬 더 불행하다고 생각하지요. 이게 바로 우리
가련한 인간들의 오만 중 하나입니다.
- 몬테크리스토 백작
it is the infirmity of our nature always to believe ourselves much
more unhappy than those who groan by our sides!
- The Count of Monte Cristo
c'est un des orgueils de notre pauvre humanité, que chaque homme se
croie plus malheureux qu'un autre malheureux qui pleure et qui gémit à
côté de lui
- Le Comte de Monte-Cristo

박진영 - Bak JinYeong
학부재학생 - Undergraduate
컴퓨터공학전공 - Department of Computer Engineering
정보통신공학부 - School of Information & Communication Engineering
성균관대학교 - SungKyunKwan University
블로그 - http://nosyu.pe.kr
이메일 - don...@skku.edu



On 7월24일, 오후6시37분, Sergey Semerikov  wrote:
> On Jul 24, 8:33 am, NoSyu  wrote:
>
> >   Now I make the WAP Page in Sagemath notebook.
>
> A good job! But it have some potential problems (I apologize for
> stress tests, which could result in a higher server load):
>
> 1. wap_test_01 - a virtual user. Every WAP-call creates a new
> worksheet athttp://math1.skku.ac.kr/home/wap_test_01, and intensive
> use lead to wasting of wap_test_01 notebook. Possible solution - to do
> "groundhog day" (proposed by Dan Drake) or remove "old" worksheets.
>
> 2. Access denied to any data, associated with cell. For example,
> worksheethttp://math1.skku.ac.kr/home/pub/191/has a 
> linkhttp://math1.skku.ac.kr/home/wap_test_01/98/cells/0/full_output.txt,
> which can't be retrieved any way.
>
> 3. Bugs (features): a) string constants must be only 'string', not
> "string"; b) single '/' must be changed on '//': sh.eval('dir //').
>
> It will be very nice if output would be typesetted with jsmath or
> shown as sage->latex->dvi->png.
>
> Sincerely, Sergey
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[sage-devel] Re: sage -upgrade via mirrors

[Harald Schilly]

On Jul 22, 8:32 pm, Harald Schilly  wrote:
> On Jul 20, 2:09 pm, Marshall Hampton  wrote:
>
> > Hi Jan,
>
> > I thought you could do something like:
>
> > sage -upgrade MIRROR

That whole business is now http://trac.sagemath.org/sage_trac/ticket/6612
and using a mirror URL as an argument to sage -upgrade should work,
too.

H
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[sage-devel] Re: Fwd: CoMarketing: Sage & Sun

[Robert Bradshaw]

On Jul 23, 2009, at 10:09 AM, rjf wrote:

> Regarding Sage running on a server:  some of the components may be
> sufficiently general as to pose hazards in a server environment.  For
> example, Maxima can create and delete files, quickly fill up all
> available memory, etc.  I would guess that other components are also
> hazardous.  It seems to me that the only practical solution is to run
> Sage in a virtual machine on the server, which may be costly. Is that
> what is being proposed? Is that what UW Sage servers are doing?

Yes, that's what the UW Sage servers are doing, and it works very  
well--there is surprisingly little overhead (on modern processors)  
and it's a relatively solid and easy to implement solution.

> Regarding Sage adoption by schools -- there is a large literature on
> computer algebra and teaching.
>
> The evidence I've seen at Berkeley is that the curriculum is already
> "full".  Adding a section of  "computing with Sage" to (say) calculus,
> prompts the response from instructors:  "what will we REMOVE from
> calculus".
> (I usually say "logarithmic derivatives" :) )
>
> If there is an instructor who is excited by a computer program (could
> be one of the M's) he/she can introduce it into the course in some
> way, sometimes.  Evidence at Berkeley is that when that instructor is
> not teaching the course, the computer stuff falls into disuse.
> Students using Mathematica get it (essentially) free for their own
> laptops at their dorm room.
> Those that use it seem to be unconcerned about it being proprietary.
> They are only occasionally concerned that it gets the answers wrong
> sometimes.
>
> While the enthusiastic teacher may think that Sage will enrich the
> course and allow the instructor to demonstrate wonderful and
> interesting things, and allow the students to explore new worlds and
> go where no person has gone before,  the evidence I've seen published
> is that (a) students don't learn anything more from course X +
> computer lab  vs. course X;  (b) students view the computer enrichment
> as something else to learn  -- additional material.
> Also note that half the class is below average. Will using Sage help
> weak students? Also for many students, math courses are an (unwelcome)
> requirement. Will they change because of Sage?
>
> Any instructor who has been asked, after a particularly beautifully
> delivered lecture/demonstration, "Will this be on the final?"
> may have to say,  oh, I guess not.  You won't be using a computer
> during the final.

Whether or not to use computers in teaching is a huge, open-ended  
question... however, if a professor/department/university decides to  
do so (or at least offer the option) the technical question is how  
easy can it be set up and administered. This is where the "sage in a  
box" idea could be very appealing.

> Of course there are some students who are wonderful, interested,
> creative, energetic, clever, and they may love Sage, etc.
> I think they should be provided great opportunities.
>
>  If a student just doesn't understand (say)  what is a function, or
> what is a group, will a computer program help?

It may, it may not. That depends a lot on the student.

- Robert



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[sage-devel] Re: Sagemath with Phone

[Sergey Semerikov]

On Jul 24, 3:49 pm, NoSyu  wrote:

> groundhog day?

"The Groundhog Day server gets reset every day to the exact same
state. No  user data of any kind is saved; everything is erased." (
Lokk at http://sagenb.kaist.ac.kr/about.html)

> 2. Oh...
>
> But txt file is not...
> I search or make another way to solve this problem.

txt file - a truncated output. Sage notebook use special commentary
tag , so you must simply insert it before every
command, using http://math1.skku.ac.kr/wap_html:

html('')
command_produced_big_output


> 3. String constants?
> I don't understand it.

It was my error, don't think about it.

> We consider the jsmath, but phone web browser in Korean phone service
> can't work javascript code.
> So we remove it.
> But latex is good.
> I make and test it later.

You can do LaTeX support in some minutes, because you already can sent
images to users:

1) do template:

html('')
command_produced_some_output
latex(_)

2) latex output send to mimetex (http://www.forkosh.dreamhost.com/
mimetex.html) - a fast and simple tool, produced fine graphical
output;

3) deliver it as any another image.

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[sage-devel] Re: notebook/tinymce and utf-8 problem

[Sergey Semerikov]

> Mayge it can be solved the problem to change the soruce like this.
> http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel/browse_thread/thread/e3b8dc...

Thank you! So, you patch for ticket 6464 not only for Korean, but for
any language with non-latin characters.


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[sage-devel] Re: barriers to community growth

[William Stein]

On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 1:55 AM, Minh Nguyen wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I just come across a document outlining some barriers to growing a
> community around an open source project. You can get it at this blog
> post:
>
> http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2009/07/22/barriers-to-community-growth/

**Vision and product**

Mission Statement is clearly defined and helps people know what we are
doing, and usually very easily answers the question, "should Sage do
X?".  It is: "Create a viable free open source alternative to Maple,
Magma, Matlab, and Mathematica."

Sage is different than many other math software projects in that (1)
we use a mainstream language (Python) and (2) we put much effort into
building technical and social relationships with other projects and
research groups.  Also, the Sage project is perhaps more ambitious
than many other projects.

** Install issues **

* Is your software packaged for popular distributions?

We fail here mainly in not having a native windows version.

*  Does the make install target work well?

Yes

* Do you use system versions of dependencies when available?

Famously no.   But I believe we make the right choice here, because of
the extreme level of rigor and correctness requires for mathematics,
and the rapid improvement (=general instability) of the components of
Sage.

* Is the configuration of the package more complicated than it needs to be?

No, you just type "make".  Sage is amazingly trivial to configure.

* Is there a good README and INSTALL on getting started, and a “Getting
started” page on your website?

Yes, definitely.  Plus quick help on sage-support.

*  Is there an easy migration path for data from one version to another?

Yes. In theory, all data automatically migrates and "just works".  (Of
course there are some problems in practice, e.g., with recent symbolic
differentiation code.)

** Build issues **

* Do you use uncommon build tools or development tools?

Nope.  We make building easy.

* Does the software have a large number of dependencies?

NOPE!   They write "Software with a large number of dependencies may
be good architecturally, re-using code wherever possible. But it makes
building the software more complicated, sometimes requiring a new
developer to struggle with different  toolchains, build procedures and
packaging issues."I think we do very good on this point.

* Do you require dependencies which are not commonly available in a typical
Linux distribution?

Nope!  They say "Worst of all is depending on software which is not
commonly available, and which  depends on another uncommonly available
package. A developer can spend hours chasing down rabbit holes looking
for the correct versions of required packages."   During at least the
first 2 years of Sage, this would have been half of the dependencies
of Sage, and would have taken weeks, not hours, for a typical
developer to sort out.

* Do you require dependencies whose API changes frequently, making it
difficult for the user to know if they have the right version?

Nope!

* Do you develop in an uncommon programming language, requiring learning
a new language and the installation of a large number of packages?

Nope! They list the common "good" languages as "C, C++, C#, Java,
Python, Perl and Ruby", so we're good with our main languages being
Python + C.

* Is the source code easy to find and easy to download on the website?

Definitely.

* Does the software take a long time to build?

Depends what "long time" means.  They write " Does the software take a
long time to build?  They write "OpenOffice.org famously takes over a
day to build on a powerful development workstation. Recompiling a
one-line change can take hours. Correcting build failures and setting
up the initial build environment can take a skilled engineer a week or
more. This barrier to entry is far too high."  Given what Sage gives
you, and that one can immediately develop with binaries, I would say
we even do fine by this metric.   I had no idea building OpenOffice
from source is that much harder than Sage.

** Product architecture issues **

*  Is there a good architecture overview document?

No, not good enough.  I did give a series of 4 talks 2 months ago that
were an architectural overview, and should turn them into
documentation...

*  Have you identified the three or four most likely changes a developer will
need to make, and tailored developer guides for those tasks?

No, that would be a good idea for a tutorial.What are they?
   * add a new function to some existing class
   * improve plotting in some way
   * fix/improve something in the GUI notebook server
   * add a new ring/field/element

* Is there a community documentation repository? Is it maintained and
accurate?

Yes, yes for the most part.  He says " I suggest recruiting members of
the community who are passionate about this kind of resource to get
involved as official “wiki editors”, in the same style as wikipedia.
Daily pruning prevents wild outgrowth

[sage-devel] Re: barriers to community growth

[kcrisman]

Thanks, Minh, this was a neat document, clearly collating material
which is sometimes diffuse and disorganized.

> The document says: "The cost of not enforcing a rule of no deliberate
> rudeness, no ad hominem attacks, and making sure that in general
> people remain civil is that uncivil behavior will become the norm for
> your forums."
>
> I think we do a good job of avoiding rudeness, especially during the
> last few months we have been doing better and better.  The forums are
> I think very civil and when people are offended, they feel comfortable
> saying so, and there is always a quick apology.
>

Yes, I agree there has been improvement on this.

> * Do new employees get the keys to the house on their first day?
>
> Not applicable.
>

It's worth pointing out here, although it's not the point the author
makes since there are (mostly) not "employees", that there is a
"quarantine" period at least on sage-devel before messages are allowed
to pass through unmoderated - is that still the case?

> Obviously the above should be on our todo list.  Is anybody reading
> this interested in doing something about this?   A starter would be to
> trademark "sagemath" or "SageMath" and maybe a logo, and come up with
> a policy statement.  This is not of personal interest to me yet, and
> it hasn't happened yet, but I strongly encourage somebody to do it!
>

Is there any potential for (benign, hopefully, but still) conflict
with the various other Sages out there when it comes to this?

- kcrisman
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[sage-devel] Re: Fwd: CoMarketing: Sage & Sun

[William Stein]

On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 3:04 AM, Harald Schilly wrote:
>
> On Jul 23, 7:09 pm, rjf  wrote:
>> Regarding Sage running on a server:  some of the components may be
>> sufficiently general as to pose hazards in a server environment.  For
>> example, Maxima can create and delete files, quickly fill up all
>> available memory, etc.  I would guess that other components are also
>> hazardous.  It seems to me that the only practical solution is to run
>> Sage in a virtual machine on the server, which may be costly. Is that
>> what is being proposed?
>
> yes, a c compiler is also a requirement for sage, therefore
> potentially everything could happen.
> uhm, i think, a possible way would be to split data and processing.
> this means, there is a central switch point from the outside network,
> it knows about many sage systems running in virtual environments (one
> benefit is, that they can be reset very quickly, restoring their
> files, ...) and it picks one of them for a user. on the "back side" is
> a data storage for each user, that is also connected to the selected
> sage instance. if a sage fails, just the session is killed, not the
> data.

In Barcelona, we came up with a pretty good way of dealing with these
sorts of problems.  The server runs in one virtual machine, and all
computation happens in a completely separate locked-down virtual
machine (or group of virtual machines) that is reset once every hour.
That machine has separate unix accounts for each user, hence all unix
security controls can be used (it could run either Solaris or Linux).

> also about the hazards, it should be possible to make things more
> secure. but that's complicated. one thing that comes to my mind with
> compiling c code is the "native client" approach by google. it tries
> to run native code inside a webbrowser. to avoid hazards, there is a
> checker for the compiled code before it is executed!
> http://code.google.com/p/nativeclient/
> http://nativeclient.googlecode.com/svn/data/docs_tarball/nacl/googleclient/native_client/documentation/nacl_paper.pdf
> I don't know the details, but Sage has a similar "problem" ;)
>
>>
>> Regarding Sage adoption by schools -- there is a large literature on
>> computer algebra and teaching.[...] Will using Sage help
>> weak students? Also for many students, math courses are an (unwelcome)
>> requirement. Will they change because of Sage?
>> 
>>  If a student just doesn't understand (say)  what is a function, or
>> what is a group, will a computer program help?
>
> Uhm, i think that's too complicated to say anything definitely about
> those questions. Although they are very important.
>
> I think, one very useful and interesting "test" could be the
> following: stick together three average students (not only maths, also
> physics ...) without any or only limited prior knowledge of Sage, with
> Sage on one PC and let them do their homework together on that
> computer. a video cam watches them and also one for the monitor! I
> expect them to get angry and probably fail to use Sage, but that would
> give a lot of information how they tried to use the product, where
> they expected things to be, and so on.

I taught a Sage course last quarter.  Twice a week (for an hour each),
I watched about 20-25 students do exactly the above (literally, they
did their homework, etc.), all using http://*.sagenb.org.I just
wondered around the room to offer help and watch, but most of the time
the students were on their own (there is only 1 of me and 25 of them).
  Most students get so involved in problem solving that they do not
even know I'm around (hence the whole video tape thing is not so
relevant, IMHO).   I've also done the same thing when I taught several
tutorials in the last few months -- at an MAA meeting, in industry,
and to about 35 Catalan-speaking open source tech geeks in Barcelona.

Some conclusions: People generally do not get really angry.  Often
people report that they find Sage easier to use than they find the
Ma*'s.   People *do* find bugs -- there are still too many.  Tab
completion and introspection (like IPython made popular) really works.

Another conclusion: The "report a bug feature" in the notebook is not
very good (sorry -- it's way too complicated and asks a bunch of
questions whose answers are already known to the running Sage
worksheet process).  Compare the "Report a Bug" link in the notebook
to say the "report a bug" process in OS X, where it just pops up a
window and says "report? [yes] [no]" and the user clicks a button --
all relevant information is then sent.   This should be rewritten to
send the whole worksheet, say.

> And yes, I think it would help some students to understand what a
> group or ring is if it is programmable in sage - but I say only some,
> others might be confused or more happy with another approach! I think
> there is no golden way that fits for all students, but more
> opportunities and more representations of the same idea help to
> abstract it.

G

[sage-devel] Re: Fwd: CoMarketing: Sage & Sun

[William Stein]

On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 5:09 AM, David Kirkby wrote:
>
> 2009/7/24 Minh Nguyen :
>
>> The former head of school (the school that was running the course) was
>> well aware of limitations of mathematics software systems (or computer
>> algebra system, if you like). But I cannot recall that the course
>> lecturer talked about downsides of proprietary systems or even maths
>> software. I *did not* attend any of the lectures.
>
> I can't recall this issue ever being pointed out to me at uni.
>
> I never mentioned it to students when I run a short course on Mathematica.
>
> Perhaps the next time a book is written on Sage, this point should be
> made more. The best argument I can think of to substantiate my claim
> of Mathematica not being used much in industry is the lack of jobs
> requiring Mathematica skills. IMHO, that's a pretty convincing
> argument for not getting sucked into using it.

I intend to write a book aimed at undergrads on Sage based on the
worksheets and experiences I had teaching this course:
http://wiki.wstein.org/09/480b

Your discussion of Mathematica and its drawbacks is very informative.

William


>
> BTW, some time back I started to write a comparison of using Sage vs
> Mathematica. I never got around to finishing it, but read it here if
> you wish.
>
> http://www.g8wrb.org/tmp/sage_ideas/compare/Mathematica/
>
>
> Dave
>
> >
>



-- 
William Stein
Associate Professor of Mathematics
University of Washington
http://wstein.org

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[sage-devel] Re: barriers to community growth

[Harald Schilly]

On Jul 24, 4:56 pm, kcrisman  wrote:
> > * Do new employees get the keys to the house on their first day?
>
> > Not applicable.
>
> It's worth pointing out here, although it's not the point the author
> makes since there are (mostly) not "employees", that there is a
> "quarantine" period at least on sage-devel before messages are allowed
> to pass through unmoderated - is that still the case?

As a moderator I can say that this policy is really necessary because
of the spam. you really don't wanna read it ;)
Apart from that, every new poster is set to "always allow" after the
first posting. So, he/she gets the key very soon!

H
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[sage-devel] Re: Fwd: CoMarketing: Sage & Sun

[kcrisman]

> > And yes, I think it would help some students to understand what a
> > group or ring is if it is programmable in sage - but I say only some,
> > others might be confused or more happy with another approach! I think
> > there is no golden way that fits for all students, but more
> > opportunities and more representations of the same idea help to
> > abstract it.
>
> Groups and rings have been around over a hundred years, are one of the
> most basic ideas in mathematics, and the basic definitions can be
> learned by any math undergrad in a few hours.  They should all learn
> what groups and rings are.   This remark really has nothing to do with
> Sage.

Some of this thread is sage-edu material as well...

It's worth pointing out that using technology, whether log tables,
calculators, tablet computers, or Sage, in the classroom is only going
to be worthwhile if done well, and with an eye toward enhancing what
is already being taught, not as yet another thing to learn per se
(which is some of what rjf is getting at, perhaps).

That said, multiple representations of things definitely does help
some students learn the point of the object and to internalize it - so
e.g. a Newton-Raphson interact (Sagelet?) on basins of attraction
might help contextualize it (and drive home the point that math does
not always have cookie-cutter answers, as it is portrayed), or the
PascGalois project might, via visual cues, really get students to
really start understanding how small changes in a group or in which
elements one chooses could affect things.

However, as rjf points out, without this being valued in the course as
more than some extra work, one needs to integrate this in some way.
There are lots of ways that can happen - not just with a final exam
done on a computer, though I am sure there are more where Minh's
example came from!  But certainly there are successful examples (and
terrible ones) out there.  I've found that it takes several attempts
to make it seem really worthwhile for students - which one could
probably say about any other pedagogical strategy!

Anyway, with regard to this thread, I like Robert's point:

Whether or not to use computers in teaching is a huge, open-ended
question... however, if a professor/department/university decides
to
do so (or at least offer the option) the technical question is how
easy can it be set up and administered. This is where the "sage in
a
box" idea could be very appealing.

- kcrisman
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[sage-devel] Re: barriers to community growth

[kcrisman]

On Jul 24, 11:20 am, Harald Schilly  wrote:
> On Jul 24, 4:56 pm, kcrisman  wrote:
>
> > > * Do new employees get the keys to the house on their first day?
>
> > > Not applicable.
>
> > It's worth pointing out here, although it's not the point the author
> > makes since there are (mostly) not "employees", that there is a
> > "quarantine" period at least on sage-devel before messages are allowed
> > to pass through unmoderated - is that still the case?
>
> As a moderator I can say that this policy is really necessary because
> of the spam. you really don't wanna read it ;)
> Apart from that, every new poster is set to "always allow" after the
> first posting. So, he/she gets the key very soon!
>
> H

Oh, neat - my impression was that in the past it took a few posts.
You are correct that I have absolutely no interest in seeing the spam.

- kcrisman
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[sage-devel] Re: barriers to community growth

[Minh Nguyen]

On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 1:20 AM, Harald Schilly wrote:
>
> On Jul 24, 4:56 pm, kcrisman  wrote:
>> > * Do new employees get the keys to the house on their first day?
>>
>> > Not applicable.
>>
>> It's worth pointing out here, although it's not the point the author
>> makes since there are (mostly) not "employees", that there is a
>> "quarantine" period at least on sage-devel before messages are allowed
>> to pass through unmoderated - is that still the case?
>
> As a moderator I can say that this policy is really necessary because
> of the spam. you really don't wanna read it ;)
> Apart from that, every new poster is set to "always allow" after the
> first posting. So, he/she gets the key very soon!

Please have pity on us moderators :-)

-- 
Regards
Minh Van Nguyen

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[sage-devel] lapack doesn't compile in Sage 4.1

[Anders Claesson]

Any ideas why?
/Anders

make[3]: Entering directory `/home/anders/sage-4.1/spkg/build/
lapack-20071123.p0/src/INSTALL'
sage_fortran -fPIC  -c lsame.f -o lsame.o
sage_fortran -fPIC  -c lsametst.f -o lsametst.o
sage_fortran  -o testlsame lsame.o lsametst.o
ld: crt1.o: No such file: No such file or directory
make[3]: *** [testlsame] Error 1
make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/anders/sage-4.1/spkg/build/
lapack-20071123.p0/src/INSTALL'
/bin/sh: ./testlsame: No such file or directory
/bin/sh: ./testslamch: No such file or directory
/bin/sh: line 1: ./testdlamch: No such file or directory
/bin/sh: line 1: ./testsecond: No such file or directory
/bin/sh: line 1: ./testdsecnd: No such file or directory
/bin/sh: line 1: ./testversion: No such file or directory
make[2]: *** [lapack_install] Error 127
make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/anders/sage-4.1/spkg/build/
lapack-20071123.p0/src'
Error compiling lapack.


#MY SYSTEM:

$ uname -srp
Linux 2.6.30-ARCH Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU U7500 @ 1.06GHz

$ gcc -v
Using built-in specs.
Target: x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu
Configured with: ../configure --prefix=/usr --enable-shared --enable-
languages=c,c++,fortran,objc,obj-c++ --enable-threads=posix --mandir=/
usr/share/man --infodir=/usr/share/info --enable-__cxa_atexit --
disable-multilib --libdir=/usr/lib --libexecdir=/usr/lib --enable-
clocale=gnu --disable-libstdcxx-pch --with-tune=generic
Thread model: posix
gcc version 4.4.0 20090630 (prerelease) (GCC)




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[sage-devel] Re: lapack doesn't compile in Sage 4.1

[William Stein]

On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 9:33 AM, Anders
Claesson wrote:
>
> Any ideas why?
> /Anders
>

You may have to install and use your own fortran as explained in the
README.txt included with Sage:

  "NOTE: If you're using Fortran on a platform without g95 binaries included
  with Sage, e.g., Itanium, you must use a system-wide gfortran.  You
  have to explicitly tell the build process about the fortran
  compiler and library location.  Do this by typing

  export SAGE_FORTRAN=/exact/path/to/gfortran
  export SAGE_FORTRAN_LIB=/path/to/fortran/libs/libgfortran.so
"

> make[3]: Entering directory `/home/anders/sage-4.1/spkg/build/
> lapack-20071123.p0/src/INSTALL'
> sage_fortran -fPIC  -c lsame.f -o lsame.o
> sage_fortran -fPIC  -c lsametst.f -o lsametst.o
> sage_fortran  -o testlsame lsame.o lsametst.o
> ld: crt1.o: No such file: No such file or directory
> make[3]: *** [testlsame] Error 1
> make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/anders/sage-4.1/spkg/build/
> lapack-20071123.p0/src/INSTALL'
> /bin/sh: ./testlsame: No such file or directory
> /bin/sh: ./testslamch: No such file or directory
> /bin/sh: line 1: ./testdlamch: No such file or directory
> /bin/sh: line 1: ./testsecond: No such file or directory
> /bin/sh: line 1: ./testdsecnd: No such file or directory
> /bin/sh: line 1: ./testversion: No such file or directory
> make[2]: *** [lapack_install] Error 127
> make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/anders/sage-4.1/spkg/build/
> lapack-20071123.p0/src'
> Error compiling lapack.
>
>
> #MY SYSTEM:
>
> $ uname -srp
> Linux 2.6.30-ARCH Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU U7500 @ 1.06GHz
>
> $ gcc -v
> Using built-in specs.
> Target: x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu
> Configured with: ../configure --prefix=/usr --enable-shared --enable-
> languages=c,c++,fortran,objc,obj-c++ --enable-threads=posix --mandir=/
> usr/share/man --infodir=/usr/share/info --enable-__cxa_atexit --
> disable-multilib --libdir=/usr/lib --libexecdir=/usr/lib --enable-
> clocale=gnu --disable-libstdcxx-pch --with-tune=generic
> Thread model: posix
> gcc version 4.4.0 20090630 (prerelease) (GCC)
>
>
>
>
> >
>



-- 
William Stein
Associate Professor of Mathematics
University of Washington
http://wstein.org

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[sage-devel] Symbolic links? + jsMath in the sage repo

[Pat LeSmithe]

Although there are many useful symbolic links under $SAGE_LOCAL and hard
links under $SAGE_ROOT/devel, Python's os module

http://docs.python.org/library/os.html

supports both types only on Unix systems (i.e., not Windows).  I think
the standard way to cope with no support for hard links is to use copies
instead.  What about symlinks?  Should we avoid making or relying on
them in code distributed with Sage?

Some context:  When we merged

http://trac.sagemath.org/sage_trac/ticket/5799

we put jsMath under version control, in

$SAGE_DOC/common/static/jsmath

At the time, this seemed to be necessary, since Python's distutils
complained about a [temporarily broken] symbolic link to jsMath's usual home

$SAGE_ROOT/local/notebook/javascript/jsmath

as it began to build what would become sage-4.1.spkg.

One possible solution is to patch the Sage library's setup.py so that
distutils includes broken links:

http://trac.sagemath.org/sage_trac/ticket/6614

Is this worth pursuing, given that it won't work on Windows?

One alternative:

1. Remove jsMath from the repo.
2. Copy jsMath to the required locations in its own spkg-install.

Is this a better approach?


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[sage-devel] feature merge window closing on 26 July 2009

[Minh Nguyen]

Hi folks,

Sage 4.1.1.alpha1 is nearly done. The feature merge window for the
upcoming Sage 4.1.1 is scheduled to be closed on 26th July 2009,
Pacific Time. Feel free to review a ticket or two from now until that
time. After releasing 4.1.1.alpha1 comes the feature freeze, in which
I plan to start on 4.1.1.rc0.

-- 
Regards
Minh Van Nguyen

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[sage-devel] boost coverage by 0.5%

[John H Palmieri]

Want to boost doctest coverage in Sage by 0.5%?  Review the ticket



  John

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[sage-devel] Re: boost coverage by 0.5%

[William Stein]

On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 4:59 PM, John H Palmieri wrote:
>
> Want to boost doctest coverage in Sage by 0.5%?  Review the ticket
>
> 
>

OK, done!

william

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[sage-devel] Re: New Riemann mapping package/patch

[David Joyner]

On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Minh Nguyen wrote:
>
> Hi Ethan,
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 12:40 AM, Ethan Van Andel wrote:
>>
>>> under GPLv2+ or a compatible license. So if I understand you
>>> correctly, your whole project is less than 1000 lines of code and
>>> documentation combined. In that case, a patch is more appropriate than
>>> a package. But you then need to figure out where to patch against.
>>
>> Yeah, that was another thing I meant to ask. Where should I put this
>> stuff?
>
> The only place I can think of is under sage/calculus. But don't trust


I could also possibly go under sage/geometry or sage/functions, depending on the
emphasis.


> me on this as I know next to nothing about your project or the maths
> involved.
>
> --
> Regards
> Minh Van Nguyen
>
> >
>

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[sage-devel] Re: Symbolic links? + jsMath in the sage repo

[David Kirkby]

2009/7/24 Pat LeSmithe :
>
>
> Although there are many useful symbolic links under $SAGE_LOCAL and hard
> links under $SAGE_ROOT/devel, Python's os module
>
> http://docs.python.org/library/os.html
>
> supports both types only on Unix systems (i.e., not Windows).  I think
> the standard way to cope with no support for hard links is to use copies
> instead.  What about symlinks?  Should we avoid making or relying on
> them in code distributed with Sage?
>
> Some context:  When we merged
>
> http://trac.sagemath.org/sage_trac/ticket/5799
>
> we put jsMath under version control, in
>
> $SAGE_DOC/common/static/jsmath
>
> At the time, this seemed to be necessary, since Python's distutils
> complained about a [temporarily broken] symbolic link to jsMath's usual home
>
> $SAGE_ROOT/local/notebook/javascript/jsmath
>
> as it began to build what would become sage-4.1.spkg.
>
> One possible solution is to patch the Sage library's setup.py so that
> distutils includes broken links:
>
> http://trac.sagemath.org/sage_trac/ticket/6614
>
> Is this worth pursuing, given that it won't work on Windows?
>
> One alternative:
>
> 1. Remove jsMath from the repo.
> 2. Copy jsMath to the required locations in its own spkg-install.
>
> Is this a better approach?


I'm not much of a Windoze user, but is a 'shortcut' not like a
symbolic link? Could shortcuts be used instead? Just a thought.

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[sage-devel] Re: boost coverage by 0.5%

[Marshall Hampton]

You can get another .25% or so from:
http://trac.sagemath.org/sage_trac/ticket/6543

-Marshall

On Jul 24, 7:06 pm, William Stein  wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 4:59 PM, John H Palmieri 
> wrote:
>
> > Want to boost doctest coverage in Sage by 0.5%?  Review the ticket
>
> > 
>
> OK, done!
>
> william
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