[RE-wrenches] Generator Overvoltage Troubleshoot

[Jim Gowdy via RE-wrenches]

Hi all,
 I need some help with a generator overvoltage troubleshoot.  I'm
working on an outback offgrid system that consists of 2 x Radian GS8048a, 1
x MATE3S controller, 1 x FM 80 charge controller, 1 x 55kw single phase
propane AC cummins generator, about 4kw of solar *not sufficient enough to
keep up with the load, and 24 x 4v Rolls batteries series/paralleled to
make 48v.  The generator was rebuilt and the batteries replaced about a
year ago and since then, the generator has been faulting due to
overvoltage.  I had help and first found that the MATE needed calibrating
so that was done, but the generator still was faulting.  I found changing
the AC Input Charging from 30a to 20a seemed to work.  I put a power
monitor on the generator output and found that, with the AC Input Charging
set at 30a, noticed that there was a voltage spike up to 300+V at about a
70a draw.  The generator company put a load bank on and verified the
generator may not be at fault and the problem is after the generator.  Has
anyone encountered a problem like this and have suggestions?  I've attached
a PDF with a timeline of what I've done for troubleshooting so far.

-- 
Jim with Gowdy Electric
Cambria, Ca 93428
business  805 927 2630
cell  805 975 5279


PACIFIC VALLEY SCHOOL OF EVENTS - Sheet1.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator Overvoltage Troubleshoot

[Jim Gowdy via RE-wrenches]

Thanks for that input, right now it's in Generator.  I was advised to try
BACKUP, but the generator was running funny when I put it on that mode.  I
will try that SUPPORT mode and see what happens.

On Fri, Jan 3, 2025 at 6:34 AM Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> What AC input mode are you using? I'd recommend trying various modes to
> see if it will go away. I tend to use the support mode with the most
> success.
>
> On Fri, Jan 3, 2025, 9:17 AM Jim Gowdy via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>  I need some help with a generator overvoltage troubleshoot.  I'm
>> working on an outback offgrid system that consists of 2 x Radian GS8048a, 1
>> x MATE3S controller, 1 x FM 80 charge controller, 1 x 55kw single phase
>> propane AC cummins generator, about 4kw of solar *not sufficient enough to
>> keep up with the load, and 24 x 4v Rolls batteries series/paralleled to
>> make 48v.  The generator was rebuilt and the batteries replaced about a
>> year ago and since then, the generator has been faulting due to
>> overvoltage.  I had help and first found that the MATE needed calibrating
>> so that was done, but the generator still was faulting.  I found changing
>> the AC Input Charging from 30a to 20a seemed to work.  I put a power
>> monitor on the generator output and found that, with the AC Input Charging
>> set at 30a, noticed that there was a voltage spike up to 300+V at about a
>> 70a draw.  The generator company put a load bank on and verified the
>> generator may not be at fault and the problem is after the generator.  Has
>> anyone encountered a problem like this and have suggestions?  I've attached
>> a PDF with a timeline of what I've done for troubleshooting so far.
>>
>> --
>> Jim with Gowdy Electric
>> Cambria, Ca 93428
>> business  805 927 2630
>> cell  805 975 5279
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-- 
Jim with Gowdy Electric
Cambria, Ca 93428
business  805 927 2630
cell  805 975 5279
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Re: [RE-wrenches] [EXTERNAL] Re: Generator Overvoltage Troubleshoot

[White, Will via RE-wrenches]

If you have Fluke meter with Fluke Connect (has FC in the model number like 
393FC), you can use the Fluke Connect app to data log for a period of time. How 
much time varies depending on the tool and test.

Thanks,
Will


From: RE-wrenches  on behalf of 
Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches 
Sent: Friday, January 3, 2025 3:01 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Jerry Shafer 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator Overvoltage Troubleshoot


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I work with gen set and inverter integration all the time, unless you have an 
inverter beginning to fail, it has to be the gen set, when l run load banks it 
for 2, 4 hr. or even longer and the voltage may only be checked at intervals 
and not continues. Use a fluke or other high quality meter set to min max and 
test all the integration, now the inverter may be pushing back spikes. You 
should also be able to tune in voltage at the gen set regulator, it can set 
volts and freq.
Fun times


On Fri, Jan 3, 2025, 6:17 AM Jim Gowdy via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> 
wrote:
Hi all,
 I need some help with a generator overvoltage troubleshoot.  I'm working 
on an outback offgrid system that consists of 2 x Radian GS8048a, 1 x MATE3S 
controller, 1 x FM 80 charge controller, 1 x 55kw single phase propane AC 
cummins generator, about 4kw of solar *not sufficient enough to keep up with 
the load, and 24 x 4v Rolls batteries series/paralleled to make 48v.  The 
generator was rebuilt and the batteries replaced about a year ago and since 
then, the generator has been faulting due to overvoltage.  I had help and first 
found that the MATE needed calibrating so that was done, but the generator 
still was faulting.  I found changing the AC Input Charging from 30a to 20a 
seemed to work.  I put a power monitor on the generator output and found that, 
with the AC Input Charging set at 30a, noticed that there was a voltage spike 
up to 300+V at about a 70a draw.  The generator company put a load bank on and 
verified the generator may not be at fault and the problem is after the 
generator.  Has anyone encountered a problem like this and have suggestions?  
I've attached a PDF with a timeline of what I've done for troubleshooting so 
far.

--
Jim with Gowdy Electric
Cambria, Ca 93428
business  805 927 2630
cell  805 975 5279
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator Overvoltage Troubleshoot

[Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches]

Here is my two cents I had a similar over voltage. It was caused by the
generator. It helped to put a load on the generator, I put on a 500 watt
resistance load, it helped but in the end the generator was replaced.  Good
luck.

On Fri, Jan 3, 2025, 8:17 AM Jim Gowdy via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi all,
>  I need some help with a generator overvoltage troubleshoot.  I'm
> working on an outback offgrid system that consists of 2 x Radian GS8048a, 1
> x MATE3S controller, 1 x FM 80 charge controller, 1 x 55kw single phase
> propane AC cummins generator, about 4kw of solar *not sufficient enough to
> keep up with the load, and 24 x 4v Rolls batteries series/paralleled to
> make 48v.  The generator was rebuilt and the batteries replaced about a
> year ago and since then, the generator has been faulting due to
> overvoltage.  I had help and first found that the MATE needed calibrating
> so that was done, but the generator still was faulting.  I found changing
> the AC Input Charging from 30a to 20a seemed to work.  I put a power
> monitor on the generator output and found that, with the AC Input Charging
> set at 30a, noticed that there was a voltage spike up to 300+V at about a
> 70a draw.  The generator company put a load bank on and verified the
> generator may not be at fault and the problem is after the generator.  Has
> anyone encountered a problem like this and have suggestions?  I've attached
> a PDF with a timeline of what I've done for troubleshooting so far.
>
> --
> Jim with Gowdy Electric
> Cambria, Ca 93428
> business  805 927 2630
> cell  805 975 5279
> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator Overvoltage Troubleshoot

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

I work with gen set and inverter integration all the time, unless you have
an inverter beginning to fail, it has to be the gen set, when l run load
banks it for 2, 4 hr. or even longer and the voltage may only be checked at
intervals and not continues. Use a fluke or other high quality meter set to
min max and test all the integration, now the inverter may be pushing back
spikes. You should also be able to tune in voltage at the gen set
regulator, it can set volts and freq.
Fun times


On Fri, Jan 3, 2025, 6:17 AM Jim Gowdy via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi all,
>  I need some help with a generator overvoltage troubleshoot.  I'm
> working on an outback offgrid system that consists of 2 x Radian GS8048a, 1
> x MATE3S controller, 1 x FM 80 charge controller, 1 x 55kw single phase
> propane AC cummins generator, about 4kw of solar *not sufficient enough to
> keep up with the load, and 24 x 4v Rolls batteries series/paralleled to
> make 48v.  The generator was rebuilt and the batteries replaced about a
> year ago and since then, the generator has been faulting due to
> overvoltage.  I had help and first found that the MATE needed calibrating
> so that was done, but the generator still was faulting.  I found changing
> the AC Input Charging from 30a to 20a seemed to work.  I put a power
> monitor on the generator output and found that, with the AC Input Charging
> set at 30a, noticed that there was a voltage spike up to 300+V at about a
> 70a draw.  The generator company put a load bank on and verified the
> generator may not be at fault and the problem is after the generator.  Has
> anyone encountered a problem like this and have suggestions?  I've attached
> a PDF with a timeline of what I've done for troubleshooting so far.
>
> --
> Jim with Gowdy Electric
> Cambria, Ca 93428
> business  805 927 2630
> cell  805 975 5279
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
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>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator Overvoltage Troubleshoot

[Blair May via RE-wrenches]

What IS the AC output prior to connecting to the Inverters? Hzs? Is the 
generator an older unit w/ mechanical speed controls? 55kW gen set should have 
no problem that load and the OV will usually occur during the disconnection 
phase not once loaded. On a generator, the "Gain" setting controls the 
sensitivity of the voltage regulator, essentially determining how quickly the 
generator responds to changes in load by adjusting the excitation current to 
maintain a stable output voltage; a higher gain means a faster response to load 
fluctuations, while a lower gain results in a slower response, potentially 
leading to larger voltage swings under changing load conditions. TUMP

> On Jan 3, 2025, at 3:01 PM, Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> I work with gen set and inverter integration all the time, unless you have an 
> inverter beginning to fail, it has to be the gen set, when l run load banks 
> it for 2, 4 hr. or even longer and the voltage may only be checked at 
> intervals and not continues. Use a fluke or other high quality meter set to 
> min max and test all the integration, now the inverter may be pushing back 
> spikes. You should also be able to tune in voltage at the gen set regulator, 
> it can set volts and freq.
> Fun times
> 
> 
> On Fri, Jan 3, 2025, 6:17 AM Jim Gowdy via RE-wrenches 
>  > wrote:
> Hi all,
>  I need some help with a generator overvoltage troubleshoot.  I'm working 
> on an outback offgrid system that consists of 2 x Radian GS8048a, 1 x MATE3S 
> controller, 1 x FM 80 charge controller, 1 x 55kw single phase propane AC 
> cummins generator, about 4kw of solar *not sufficient enough to keep up with 
> the load, and 24 x 4v Rolls batteries series/paralleled to make 48v.  The 
> generator was rebuilt and the batteries replaced about a year ago and since 
> then, the generator has been faulting due to overvoltage.  I had help and 
> first found that the MATE needed calibrating so that was done, but the 
> generator still was faulting.  I found changing the AC Input Charging from 
> 30a to 20a seemed to work.  I put a power monitor on the generator output and 
> found that, with the AC Input Charging set at 30a, noticed that there was a 
> voltage spike up to 300+V at about a 70a draw.  The generator company put a 
> load bank on and verified the generator may not be at fault and the problem 
> is after the generator.  Has anyone encountered a problem like this and have 
> suggestions?  I've attached a PDF with a timeline of what I've done for 
> troubleshooting so far.
> 
> -- 
> Jim with Gowdy Electric
> Cambria, Ca 93428
> business  805 927 2630
> cell  805 975 5279
> ___
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"We must all learn to live together as brothers,
 or we all will perish as fools."
MLK





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Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator Overvoltage Troubleshoot

[Ray Walters via RE-wrenches]

Reading that the problem started AFTER the gen set was rebuilt, seems to 
point to adjusting generator voltage and frequency set points, or a 
faulty voltage regulator.  My guess is something went wrong with the 
rebuild.  Unless it was factory rebuilt, I've found local generator 
service companies to be overall fair to bad.  All the knowledgeable old 
timers are retiring, replaced with younger folks that mostly are there 
to just collect a paycheck.  My experience with gen sets that start 
having trouble, is they have to be replaced.  I just haven't seen them 
ever be reliable again, once they start needing work.


As soon as the gen set service company hears "Solar", they pin the blame 
on us, and to be fair, Inverter battery charging is a tricky load.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar

On 1/3/2025 1:21 PM, Blair May via RE-wrenches wrote:
What IS the AC output prior to connecting to the Inverters? Hzs? Is 
the generator an older unit w/ mechanical speed controls? 55kW gen set 
should have no problem that load and the OV will usually occur during 
the disconnection phase not once loaded. On a generator, the "Gain" 
setting controls the sensitivity of the voltage regulator, essentially 
determining how quickly the generator responds to changes in load by 
adjusting the excitation current to maintain a stable output voltage; 
a higher gain means a faster response to load fluctuations, while a 
lower gain results in a slower response, potentially leading to larger 
voltage swings under changing load conditions. TUMP


On Jan 3, 2025, at 3:01 PM, Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


I work with gen set and inverter integration all the time, unless you 
have an inverter beginning to fail, it has to be the gen set, when l 
run load banks it for 2, 4 hr. or even longer and the voltage may 
only be checked at intervals and not continues. Use a fluke or other 
high quality meter set to min max and test all the integration, now 
the inverter may be pushing back spikes. You should also be able to 
tune in voltage at the gen set regulator, it can set volts and freq.

Fun times


On Fri, Jan 3, 2025, 6:17 AM Jim Gowdy via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Hi all,
     I need some help with a generator overvoltage troubleshoot. 
I'm working on an outback offgrid system that consists of 2 x
Radian GS8048a, 1 x MATE3S controller, 1 x FM 80 charge
controller, 1 x 55kw single phase propane AC cummins generator,
about 4kw of solar *not sufficient enough to keep up with the
load, and 24 x 4v Rolls batteries series/paralleled to make 48v. 
The generator was rebuilt and the batteries replaced about a year
ago and since then, the generator has been faulting due to
overvoltage.  I had help and first found that the MATE needed
calibrating so that was done, but the generator still was
faulting. I found changing the AC Input Charging from 30a to 20a
seemed to work.  I put a power monitor on the generator output
and found that, with the AC Input Charging set at 30a, noticed
that there was a voltage spike up to 300+V at about a 70a draw. 
The generator company put a load bank on and verified the
generator may not be at fault and the problem is after the
generator.  Has anyone encountered a problem like this and have
suggestions?  I've attached a PDF with a timeline of what I've
done for troubleshooting so far.

-- 
Jim with Gowdy Electric

Cambria, Ca 93428
business  805 927 2630
cell  805 975 5279
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"We must all learn to live together as brothers,
 or we all will perish as fools."
MLK






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Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator Overvoltage Troubleshoot

[Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches]

What AC input mode are you using? I'd recommend trying various modes to see
if it will go away. I tend to use the support mode with the most success.

On Fri, Jan 3, 2025, 9:17 AM Jim Gowdy via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi all,
>  I need some help with a generator overvoltage troubleshoot.  I'm
> working on an outback offgrid system that consists of 2 x Radian GS8048a, 1
> x MATE3S controller, 1 x FM 80 charge controller, 1 x 55kw single phase
> propane AC cummins generator, about 4kw of solar *not sufficient enough to
> keep up with the load, and 24 x 4v Rolls batteries series/paralleled to
> make 48v.  The generator was rebuilt and the batteries replaced about a
> year ago and since then, the generator has been faulting due to
> overvoltage.  I had help and first found that the MATE needed calibrating
> so that was done, but the generator still was faulting.  I found changing
> the AC Input Charging from 30a to 20a seemed to work.  I put a power
> monitor on the generator output and found that, with the AC Input Charging
> set at 30a, noticed that there was a voltage spike up to 300+V at about a
> 70a draw.  The generator company put a load bank on and verified the
> generator may not be at fault and the problem is after the generator.  Has
> anyone encountered a problem like this and have suggestions?  I've attached
> a PDF with a timeline of what I've done for troubleshooting so far.
>
> --
> Jim with Gowdy Electric
> Cambria, Ca 93428
> business  805 927 2630
> cell  805 975 5279
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator Overvoltage Troubleshoot

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

The normal generator test uses resistive loads which are easy for the voltage regulator. I’ve had success with problem generators by adding watts of resistive loads, space heaters. Worth a test. Because this generator is so large, might take 5k or more of heaters. JayOn Jan 3, 2025, at 7:53 AM, Jim Gowdy via RE-wrenches  wrote:Thanks for that input, right now it's in Generator.  I was advised to try BACKUP, but the generator was running funny when I put it on that mode.  I will try that SUPPORT mode and see what happens.On Fri, Jan 3, 2025 at 6:34 AM Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches  wrote:What AC input mode are you using? I'd recommend trying various modes to see if it will go away. I tend to use the support mode with the most success. On Fri, Jan 3, 2025, 9:17 AM Jim Gowdy via RE-wrenches  wrote:Hi all,     I need some help with a generator overvoltage troubleshoot.  I'm working on an outback offgrid system that consists of 2 x Radian GS8048a, 1 x MATE3S controller, 1 x FM 80 charge controller, 1 x 55kw single phase propane AC cummins generator, about 4kw of solar *not sufficient enough to keep up with the load, and 24 x 4v Rolls batteries series/paralleled to make 48v.  The generator was rebuilt and the batteries replaced about a year ago and since then, the generator has been faulting due to overvoltage.  I had help and first found that the MATE needed calibrating so that was done, but the generator still was faulting.  I found changing the AC Input Charging from 30a to 20a seemed to work.  I put a power monitor on the generator output and found that, with the AC Input Charging set at 30a, noticed that there was a voltage spike up to 300+V at about a 70a draw.  The generator company put a load bank on and verified the generator may not be at fault and the problem is after the generator.  Has anyone encountered a problem like this and have suggestions?  I've attached a PDF with a timeline of what I've done for troubleshooting so far.-- Jim with Gowdy ElectricCambria, Ca 93428business  805 927 2630cell  805 975 5279
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-- Jim with Gowdy ElectricCambria, Ca 93428business  805 927 2630cell  805 975 5279
___List sponsored by Redwood AlliancePay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.orgList Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgChange listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgThere are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmCheck out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator Overvoltage Troubleshoot

[Jim Gowdy via RE-wrenches]

That's a great idea and I will try that.  I have thought that a 240v
resistive load may not be the best test

On Fri, Jan 3, 2025 at 7:03 AM Jay via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> The normal generator test uses resistive loads which are easy for the
> voltage regulator.
>
> I’ve had success with problem generators by adding watts of resistive
> loads, space heaters.
> Worth a test.
> Because this generator is so large, might take 5k or more of heaters.
>
> Jay
>
> On Jan 3, 2025, at 7:53 AM, Jim Gowdy via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> 
> Thanks for that input, right now it's in Generator.  I was advised to try
> BACKUP, but the generator was running funny when I put it on that mode.  I
> will try that SUPPORT mode and see what happens.
>
> On Fri, Jan 3, 2025 at 6:34 AM Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> What AC input mode are you using? I'd recommend trying various modes to
>> see if it will go away. I tend to use the support mode with the most
>> success.
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 3, 2025, 9:17 AM Jim Gowdy via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>  I need some help with a generator overvoltage troubleshoot.  I'm
>>> working on an outback offgrid system that consists of 2 x Radian GS8048a, 1
>>> x MATE3S controller, 1 x FM 80 charge controller, 1 x 55kw single phase
>>> propane AC cummins generator, about 4kw of solar *not sufficient enough to
>>> keep up with the load, and 24 x 4v Rolls batteries series/paralleled to
>>> make 48v.  The generator was rebuilt and the batteries replaced about a
>>> year ago and since then, the generator has been faulting due to
>>> overvoltage.  I had help and first found that the MATE needed calibrating
>>> so that was done, but the generator still was faulting.  I found changing
>>> the AC Input Charging from 30a to 20a seemed to work.  I put a power
>>> monitor on the generator output and found that, with the AC Input Charging
>>> set at 30a, noticed that there was a voltage spike up to 300+V at about a
>>> 70a draw.  The generator company put a load bank on and verified the
>>> generator may not be at fault and the problem is after the generator.  Has
>>> anyone encountered a problem like this and have suggestions?  I've attached
>>> a PDF with a timeline of what I've done for troubleshooting so far.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jim with Gowdy Electric
>>> Cambria, Ca 93428
>>> business  805 927 2630
>>> cell  805 975 5279
>>> ___
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>
>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try
>>> the other:
>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>
>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
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>>
>
> --
> Jim with Gowdy Electric
> Cambria, Ca 93428
> business  805 927 2630
> cell  805 975 5279
> ___
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