Re: [RE-wrenches] More Issues with Parallel Sol-Ark 15K System

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Oh that’s not encouraging. Care to share the issues. At least the 18kpv is easy to set up. JayOn Dec 13, 2024, at 3:20 PM, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches  wrote:I wish I didn't know what you guys were talking about :) !!! Both SS and S-A. As I've been going through my learning curve with Midnite's AIO and PF16, both Logan and Rick (and Richard at NAZ) have been there immediately for me and have held my hand the whole time.On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 1:43 PM Jay via RE-wrenches  wrote:Hi JasonI had a similar situation at signature solar/eg4. Customer was having lots of random issues with 18kpv. That included multiple shut downs per day. After a few weeks of going through the same questions and answers I was able to find a good level 2 tech who agreed to replace the inverter. They were just locked into it’s a ground loop, or something. And it’s monitored online. They can look at it. 14 days later the inverter arrived. That’s good except it just showed up. No email, saying it shipped, nada. So yeah they just don’t have any concept of tech support. I mean they do answer the phones but if they don’t have answers what good is it?I do think it’s an issue with any growing company, more product more issues. Outback has gone through this process a few times, sometimes good, sometimes horrible. And of course the owner of Outback is also the owner of signature/eg4.Midnight is different, and I plan to use their stuff when I get a chance. FYI. I’ve got a 3 stack fortress 12kw That has been running perfectly for 8 months now. I’d say this is the new way, sucks. JayOn Dec 13, 2024, at 2:15 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches  wrote:Just a follow-up to this saga... After many many more hours of diagnostics with tech support, often repeated on subsequent calls, I finally had to get irritated enough to demand that they just swap out the inverter. On three different calls they made me take the inverter out of parallel mode and run it standalone to see if it works, and it did. But when put back in parallel, it would fault out again. Today they made me put the subject inverter as the master in parallel mode, and it worked. Then I switched it back to its original slave position and it faulted out again. They had the audacity to tell me that some inverters are just like that and I should use it as the master. Obviously that is a ridiculous resolution to the problem. I demanded that they fix their faulty product under warranty and they are now sending me a replacement board and screen. I have a pretty good degree of confidence that it will fix the problem, but it really should not have been this hard to get to this point. The troubleshooting process is broken at Sol-Ark. There is no continuum of severity that gets issues properly escalated and resolved. Repeated diagnostic measures just frustrate people and do not solve the issue. You have to get upset, and even nasty to speak to a supervisor. Meanwhile, the tier 1 agents are playing a game of telephone, relaying what the higher-ups are telling them to say. Some of them are knowledgeable, but many are just parroting what someone else to whispering in their ear, even when they don't have the full picture. It's like throwing spaghetti at a wall to see what sticks.I will report back when I get the replacement parts and try them out. Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group On Sat, Nov 9, 2024, 10:15 AM Jason Szumlanski  wrote:I wrote in another thread about an off-grid quad Sol-Ark system that was shutting down due to parallel stop when one of the four inverters experienced a DC PV fault, and how that shutdown is far from ideal. The same system is down once again, this time due to an AC fault code.The homeowner started getting repeated F18 and F34 AC overcurrent faults on one of the slave inverters. This, in turn, shut the entire system down due to parallel stop faults (F41). None of the other units had AC overcurrent faults, and the load is nowhere near requiring all four inverters for even the most demanding circumstances. It was designed this way for redundancy, which I am quickly finding out is not Sol-Ark's strong suit. To diagnose the issue remotely, I had the owner turn off all four load breakers, all DC PV input, and the AC microinverter input on the GEN terminals. I had them restart everything (several times). Every time, the same inverter would have repeated AC overcurrent faults, and the others would have parallel system faults. Since there were no loads connected by virtue of the load breakers being open, I suspected this had to be an internal fault. I went to the site, and Sol-Ark Tier 1 tech support had me shut off all inverters and take the suspect inverter out of parallel operation mode. As a standalone master it was able to power up and support the entire house load without issue. Then we reprogrammed it for parallel operation again and turned everything ba

Re: [RE-wrenches] More Issues with Parallel Sol-Ark 15K System

[Tyrone Houck via RE-wrenches]

Any further investigation into the hardware differences between the newer
15k and the original 15k I mentioned before? That was the only thing that
fixed the issue for us. We had to insist they replaced it with a newer
matching inverter. I should have made note of the serial numbers to try to
narrow down the time frame when they changed the design. The newer design
has a small circuit board bolted to the bottom of the enclosure that wasn't
present in the original..




On Sat, Nov 9, 2024, 7:16 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> I wrote in another thread about an off-grid quad Sol-Ark system that was
> shutting down due to parallel stop when one of the four inverters
> experienced a DC PV fault, and how that shutdown is far from ideal. The
> same system is down once again, this time due to an AC fault code.
>
> The homeowner started getting repeated F18 and F34 AC overcurrent faults
> on one of the slave inverters. This, in turn, shut the entire system down
> due to parallel stop faults (F41). None of the other units had AC
> overcurrent faults, and the load is nowhere near requiring all four
> inverters for even the most demanding circumstances. It was designed this
> way for redundancy, which I am quickly finding out is not Sol-Ark's strong
> suit.
>
> To diagnose the issue remotely, I had the owner turn off all four load
> breakers, all DC PV input, and the AC microinverter input on the GEN
> terminals. I had them restart everything (several times). Every time, the
> same inverter would have repeated AC overcurrent faults, and the others
> would have parallel system faults. Since there were no loads connected by
> virtue of the load breakers being open, I suspected this had to be an
> internal fault.
>
> I went to the site, and Sol-Ark Tier 1 tech support had me shut off all
> inverters and take the suspect inverter out of parallel operation mode. As
> a standalone master it was able to power up and support the entire house
> load without issue. Then we reprogrammed it for parallel operation again
> and turned everything back on. We were unable to stay on the phone long
> enough to determine if this was successful, but ultimately, the fault
> returned. I was told to call and ask for Tier 2 next time if it happened
> again, which I intend to do on Monday. At this point, the issue can only be
> internal to the unit, and I intend to demand warranty replacement of
> suspect components or the whole unit.
>
> I had to get the system running, so I wanted to take the bad inverter out
> of the parallel system. I was hoping that simply shutting it down would
> work. This is the third of 4 inverters in the Modbus chain. When turning it
> off completely (all AC and DC switches disconnected), the 4th inverter
> would fault, presumably because the Modbus signal was not being relayed,
> but inverters #1 and #2 worked fine. However, I wanted #4 to also continue
> working while taking #3 out of service. So then I turned on the battery
> disconnect for #3 but left it in the off mode by not pressing the on/off
> button, thinking that it would allow relay of the Modbus signal from #2 to
> #4. That allowed the system to work momentarily, but then everything
> faulted out due to parallel system stop. In other words, I was going to
> have to physically take #3 out of the Modbus daisy chain to make this work.
>
> Of course, I didn't have a long enough Cat5 cable with me, nor a Cat5
> splice connector. So I had to rig something, which I did successfully to
> jumper from #2 to #4. But when I turned everything back on, #4 still would
> not work. I eventually realized that you have to change the Modbus address
> from 04 to 03 in the settings. Apparently, the addresses need to be
> sequential for it to work. Once I did this, I was able to get the system up
> and running again as a triple-inverter parallel setup. No faults were
> observed. So the theory was proven that #3 has an issue internally.
>
>
> Anyway, bottom line, I am disappointed at how one inverter fault takes
> down the whole paralleled system, and also how taking a faulted inverter
> out of the system requires physical and programming changes. Turning it off
> should be sufficient. This is a very poor way to implement a parallel
> system that should provide the peace of mind that redundancy implies. Now I
> have a customer who thought they were getting a system with failsafe
> redundancy that actually requires a service call every time one of the
> paralleled units decides it does not want to play nicely with others.
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Florida Solar Design Group
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Is module level shut down required?On Dec 13, 2024, at 6:02 PM, Lou Russo via RE-wrenches  wrote:Wrenches,We maintain a SolarEdge 119kW (564 panels) small commercial grid tied system without ESS that we did not install. We were brought in at the bitter end to commission and get the interconnection agreement with the power company all set up. It has been about 4 years and we have replaced 5 of the 7 inverters and what seems like an endless amount of optimizers. I am toying with the idea of proposing that we move away from SolarEdge. It seems ridiculous on the surface but so is the money spent by the client fixing this system 2 to 3 times a year. Regardless, financially it does not make sense but functionally it is incredibly frustrating for everyone involved to keep fixing this system.What would you do?Aloha,Lou Russo Ownerl...@spreesolarsystems.comOffice - 808 345 6762Spree Solar Systems LLC CT-34322
___List sponsored by Redwood AlliancePay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.orgList Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgChange listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgThere are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmCheck out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] More Issues with Parallel Sol-Ark 15K System

[Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches]

Just a follow-up to this saga... After many many more hours of diagnostics
with tech support, often repeated on subsequent calls, I finally had to get
irritated enough to demand that they just swap out the inverter. On three
different calls they made me take the inverter out of parallel mode and run
it standalone to see if it works, and it did. But when put back in
parallel, it would fault out again. Today they made me put the subject
inverter as the master in parallel mode, and it worked. Then I switched it
back to its original slave position and it faulted out again. They had the
audacity to tell me that some inverters are just like that and I should use
it as the master. Obviously that is a ridiculous resolution to the problem.
I demanded that they fix their faulty product under warranty and they are
now sending me a replacement board and screen. I have a pretty good degree
of confidence that it will fix the problem, but it really should not have
been this hard to get to this point.

The troubleshooting process is broken at Sol-Ark. There is no continuum of
severity that gets issues properly escalated and resolved. Repeated
diagnostic measures just frustrate people and do not solve the issue. You
have to get upset, and even nasty to speak to a supervisor. Meanwhile, the
tier 1 agents are playing a game of telephone, relaying what the higher-ups
are telling them to say. Some of them are knowledgeable, but many are just
parroting what someone else to whispering in their ear, even when they
don't have the full picture. It's like throwing spaghetti at a wall to see
what sticks.

I will report back when I get the replacement parts and try them out.

Jason Szumlanski
Florida Solar Design Group

On Sat, Nov 9, 2024, 10:15 AM Jason Szumlanski <
ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:

> I wrote in another thread about an off-grid quad Sol-Ark system that was
> shutting down due to parallel stop when one of the four inverters
> experienced a DC PV fault, and how that shutdown is far from ideal. The
> same system is down once again, this time due to an AC fault code.
>
> The homeowner started getting repeated F18 and F34 AC overcurrent faults
> on one of the slave inverters. This, in turn, shut the entire system down
> due to parallel stop faults (F41). None of the other units had AC
> overcurrent faults, and the load is nowhere near requiring all four
> inverters for even the most demanding circumstances. It was designed this
> way for redundancy, which I am quickly finding out is not Sol-Ark's strong
> suit.
>
> To diagnose the issue remotely, I had the owner turn off all four load
> breakers, all DC PV input, and the AC microinverter input on the GEN
> terminals. I had them restart everything (several times). Every time, the
> same inverter would have repeated AC overcurrent faults, and the others
> would have parallel system faults. Since there were no loads connected by
> virtue of the load breakers being open, I suspected this had to be an
> internal fault.
>
> I went to the site, and Sol-Ark Tier 1 tech support had me shut off all
> inverters and take the suspect inverter out of parallel operation mode. As
> a standalone master it was able to power up and support the entire house
> load without issue. Then we reprogrammed it for parallel operation again
> and turned everything back on. We were unable to stay on the phone long
> enough to determine if this was successful, but ultimately, the fault
> returned. I was told to call and ask for Tier 2 next time if it happened
> again, which I intend to do on Monday. At this point, the issue can only be
> internal to the unit, and I intend to demand warranty replacement of
> suspect components or the whole unit.
>
> I had to get the system running, so I wanted to take the bad inverter out
> of the parallel system. I was hoping that simply shutting it down would
> work. This is the third of 4 inverters in the Modbus chain. When turning it
> off completely (all AC and DC switches disconnected), the 4th inverter
> would fault, presumably because the Modbus signal was not being relayed,
> but inverters #1 and #2 worked fine. However, I wanted #4 to also continue
> working while taking #3 out of service. So then I turned on the battery
> disconnect for #3 but left it in the off mode by not pressing the on/off
> button, thinking that it would allow relay of the Modbus signal from #2 to
> #4. That allowed the system to work momentarily, but then everything
> faulted out due to parallel system stop. In other words, I was going to
> have to physically take #3 out of the Modbus daisy chain to make this work.
>
> Of course, I didn't have a long enough Cat5 cable with me, nor a Cat5
> splice connector. So I had to rig something, which I did successfully to
> jumper from #2 to #4. But when I turned everything back on, #4 still would
> not work. I eventually realized that you have to change the Modbus address
> from 04 to 03 in the settings. Apparently, the addresses need to

Re: [RE-wrenches] More Issues with Parallel Sol-Ark 15K System

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi JasonI had a similar situation at signature solar/eg4. Customer was having lots of random issues with 18kpv. That included multiple shut downs per day. After a few weeks of going through the same questions and answers I was able to find a good level 2 tech who agreed to replace the inverter. They were just locked into it’s a ground loop, or something. And it’s monitored online. They can look at it. 14 days later the inverter arrived. That’s good except it just showed up. No email, saying it shipped, nada. So yeah they just don’t have any concept of tech support. I mean they do answer the phones but if they don’t have answers what good is it?I do think it’s an issue with any growing company, more product more issues. Outback has gone through this process a few times, sometimes good, sometimes horrible. And of course the owner of Outback is also the owner of signature/eg4.Midnight is different, and I plan to use their stuff when I get a chance. FYI. I’ve got a 3 stack fortress 12kw That has been running perfectly for 8 months now. I’d say this is the new way, sucks. JayOn Dec 13, 2024, at 2:15 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches  wrote:Just a follow-up to this saga... After many many more hours of diagnostics with tech support, often repeated on subsequent calls, I finally had to get irritated enough to demand that they just swap out the inverter. On three different calls they made me take the inverter out of parallel mode and run it standalone to see if it works, and it did. But when put back in parallel, it would fault out again. Today they made me put the subject inverter as the master in parallel mode, and it worked. Then I switched it back to its original slave position and it faulted out again. They had the audacity to tell me that some inverters are just like that and I should use it as the master. Obviously that is a ridiculous resolution to the problem. I demanded that they fix their faulty product under warranty and they are now sending me a replacement board and screen. I have a pretty good degree of confidence that it will fix the problem, but it really should not have been this hard to get to this point. The troubleshooting process is broken at Sol-Ark. There is no continuum of severity that gets issues properly escalated and resolved. Repeated diagnostic measures just frustrate people and do not solve the issue. You have to get upset, and even nasty to speak to a supervisor. Meanwhile, the tier 1 agents are playing a game of telephone, relaying what the higher-ups are telling them to say. Some of them are knowledgeable, but many are just parroting what someone else to whispering in their ear, even when they don't have the full picture. It's like throwing spaghetti at a wall to see what sticks.I will report back when I get the replacement parts and try them out. Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group On Sat, Nov 9, 2024, 10:15 AM Jason Szumlanski  wrote:I wrote in another thread about an off-grid quad Sol-Ark system that was shutting down due to parallel stop when one of the four inverters experienced a DC PV fault, and how that shutdown is far from ideal. The same system is down once again, this time due to an AC fault code.The homeowner started getting repeated F18 and F34 AC overcurrent faults on one of the slave inverters. This, in turn, shut the entire system down due to parallel stop faults (F41). None of the other units had AC overcurrent faults, and the load is nowhere near requiring all four inverters for even the most demanding circumstances. It was designed this way for redundancy, which I am quickly finding out is not Sol-Ark's strong suit. To diagnose the issue remotely, I had the owner turn off all four load breakers, all DC PV input, and the AC microinverter input on the GEN terminals. I had them restart everything (several times). Every time, the same inverter would have repeated AC overcurrent faults, and the others would have parallel system faults. Since there were no loads connected by virtue of the load breakers being open, I suspected this had to be an internal fault. I went to the site, and Sol-Ark Tier 1 tech support had me shut off all inverters and take the suspect inverter out of parallel operation mode. As a standalone master it was able to power up and support the entire house load without issue. Then we reprogrammed it for parallel operation again and turned everything back on. We were unable to stay on the phone long enough to determine if this was successful, but ultimately, the fault returned. I was told to call and ask for Tier 2 next time if it happened again, which I intend to do on Monday. At this point, the issue can only be internal to the unit, and I intend to demand warranty replacement of suspect components or the whole unit.I had to get the system running, so I wanted to take the bad inverter out of the parallel system. I was hoping that simply shutting it down would work. This is the third of 4 inverters in 

Re: [RE-wrenches] FM100 Stuck in Silent Mode.

[John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches]

Now that I am getting some data from the island with the old system keeping
power up for 6 plus hours(.started with 2 hours and now with full sun 6
hours. I see on Event History that the FM100 is continually bulk charging
then Not charging every minute  No actual power produced but sometimes the
bulk charging will continue for several minutes and the FM100 status shows
bulk charging at 45 to 50 watts regardless of what the array voltage is.,
then goes back to silent. Has anybody seen this before?  Tomorrow is
supposed to be sunny so I should see more power if the problem is in fact
snow or ice on the array.  We had a lot of rain so I had assumed that any
snow would have washed off but then here on the mountain we got some sleet
and then 2"of snow that I had to scrape off my array. All the solar farms
around here have cleared of snow so I can't believe that snow cover is the
problem.

Yesterday I took the FM100 with the arc fault problem that I had put aside
to deal with later,  removed the arc fault circuit board and then installed
it in my system in place of my FM100.  It works just fine. I just installed
two FM100's and Radian in a new mountaintop off-grid system and another
going in this week on a grid tie backup system.  Both are pole mount racks
for the solar. I probably should pull the circuit boards out of both of
those as they are unattended second homes with months of no use but they
are usually accessible after the snowstorms.

John


..

On Wed, Dec 11, 2024 at 2:17 PM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> I had one stuck in silent a couple years ago. Was plain as day after some
> measurements that PV positive to ground showed the open circuit PV voltage.
> It had failed internally. A new charge controller fixed it.
>
> *Kirk Herander / **kirkh@vermont.solar *
>
> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC*
>
> *Celebrating our 33st Anniversary 1991-2024!!*
>
> dba Vermont Solar Engineering
>
> 802.559.1225
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 11, 2024 at 2:13 PM Luke Christy via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> This is a timely thread. Thanks to all for your input.
>>
>> I also have a site with a problematic FM100. The system has 2x FM100s and
>> every morning one of them has required a manual power cycle by the client
>> to get it to start producing. I can get no data remotely through Optics
>> that indicates what’s going on other than that the device just stays in
>> silent mode after it shuts down at the end of the production day. I went
>> down some rabbit holes related to installing a fixed resistor on the BTS
>> sensor circuit to set the measured battery temp at 25º C vs leaving the
>> sensor unconnected with the lithium battery bank. There were some threads
>> on the NAWS forum that indicated ghost temp values from unconnected BTS
>> sensors might a source of the problem. I’m not sure why I didn’t think of
>> the AFCI card as possible cause also. Thankfully I have some spare new
>> FM100s on hand. Looks like a trip out there to swap the device and pull
>> some AFCI cards.
>>
>> I continue to be dismayed at the situation with Outback. I can’t really
>> see them coming back to the market in an incarnation that we will
>> recognize. - despite the various reports to the contrary. I hope I’m wrong.
>> At least (for now) they are still supporting the Optics platform.
>>
>> Luke Christy
>> Renewable energy consultant
>>
>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™:
>>
>> Solar Gain Services, LLC
>> PO Box 531
>> Monte Vista, CO 81144
>> 719.588.3044
>> sgsrenewab...@gmail.com
>>
>> On Dec 10, 2024, at 8:50 PM, John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>> HI Wrenches,
>>I  have an off grid site on an Island on auto pilot for the winter
>> with no access.  The FM 100
>> has remained in Silent mode even when the Array Voltage is around  150
>> Volts and battery at 46V
>> I did get a response from Outback Tech support but they couldn't figure
>> out what happened.
>> I suspect that there is a ground or arc fault error which locks it up til
>> manually recycled.  The problem is that there is no indication found on
>> Optics that there is a ground fault.
>> We would be totally in the dark except the original small solar array
>> with an Apollo CC with
>> about a kilowatt of solar has been dribbling in enough power to keep
>> above low battery cutoff
>> for a few hours each day.  The system was up when I was on the tech
>> support call but has since quit for the day. Has anyone seen this before?
>>
>> John Blittersdorf
>>
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't wor

Re: [RE-wrenches] More Issues with Parallel Sol-Ark 15K System

[Lloyd Hoffstatter via RE-wrenches]

[sad]   Lloyd Hoffstatter reacted to your message:

From: RE-wrenches  on behalf of Jay 
via RE-wrenches 
Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2024 12:41:44 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Jay 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] More Issues with Parallel Sol-Ark 15K System

Oh that’s not encouraging.

Care to share the issues.
At least the 18kpv is easy to set up.

Jay

On Dec 13, 2024, at 3:20 PM, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


I wish I didn't know what you guys were talking about :) !!! Both SS and S-A. 
As I've been going through my learning curve with Midnite's AIO and PF16, both 
Logan and Rick (and Richard at NAZ) have been there immediately for me and have 
held my hand the whole time.

On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 1:43 PM Jay via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> 
wrote:
Hi Jason

I had a similar situation at signature solar/eg4.

Customer was having lots of random issues with 18kpv. That included multiple 
shut downs per day.
After a few weeks of going through the same questions and answers I was able to 
find a good level 2 tech who agreed to replace the inverter.
They were just locked into it’s a ground loop, or something. And it’s monitored 
online. They can look at it.
14 days later the inverter arrived.
That’s good except it just showed up. No email, saying it shipped, nada.


So yeah they just don’t have any concept of tech support. I mean they do answer 
the phones but if they don’t have answers what good is it?
I do think it’s an issue with any growing company, more product more issues. 
Outback has gone through this process a few times, sometimes good, sometimes 
horrible. And of course the owner of Outback is also the owner of signature/eg4.

Midnight is different, and I plan to use their stuff when I get a chance.

FYI. I’ve got a 3 stack fortress 12kw
That has been running perfectly for 8 months now.

I’d say this is the new way, sucks.

Jay

On Dec 13, 2024, at 2:15 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> 
wrote:


Just a follow-up to this saga... After many many more hours of diagnostics with 
tech support, often repeated on subsequent calls, I finally had to get 
irritated enough to demand that they just swap out the inverter. On three 
different calls they made me take the inverter out of parallel mode and run it 
standalone to see if it works, and it did. But when put back in parallel, it 
would fault out again. Today they made me put the subject inverter as the 
master in parallel mode, and it worked. Then I switched it back to its original 
slave position and it faulted out again. They had the audacity to tell me that 
some inverters are just like that and I should use it as the master. Obviously 
that is a ridiculous resolution to the problem. I demanded that they fix their 
faulty product under warranty and they are now sending me a replacement board 
and screen. I have a pretty good degree of confidence that it will fix the 
problem, but it really should not have been this hard to get to this point.

The troubleshooting process is broken at Sol-Ark. There is no continuum of 
severity that gets issues properly escalated and resolved. Repeated diagnostic 
measures just frustrate people and do not solve the issue. You have to get 
upset, and even nasty to speak to a supervisor. Meanwhile, the tier 1 agents 
are playing a game of telephone, relaying what the higher-ups are telling them 
to say. Some of them are knowledgeable, but many are just parroting what 
someone else to whispering in their ear, even when they don't have the full 
picture. It's like throwing spaghetti at a wall to see what sticks.

I will report back when I get the replacement parts and try them out.

Jason Szumlanski
Florida Solar Design Group

On Sat, Nov 9, 2024, 10:15 AM Jason Szumlanski 
mailto:ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com>> 
wrote:
I wrote in another thread about an off-grid quad Sol-Ark system that was 
shutting down due to parallel stop when one of the four inverters experienced a 
DC PV fault, and how that shutdown is far from ideal. The same system is down 
once again, this time due to an AC fault code.

The homeowner started getting repeated F18 and F34 AC overcurrent faults on one 
of the slave inverters. This, in turn, shut the entire system down due to 
parallel stop faults (F41). None of the other units had AC overcurrent faults, 
and the load is nowhere near requiring all four inverters for even the most 
demanding circumstances. It was designed this way for redundancy, which I am 
quickly finding out is not Sol-Ark's strong suit.

To diagnose the issue remotely, I had the owner turn off all four load 
breakers, all DC PV input, and the AC microinverter input on the GEN terminals. 
I had them restart everything (several times). Every time, the same inverter 
would have repeated AC overcurrent faults, and the others would have parallel 
system faults. Since there were no loads connected by virtue of the loa

Re: [RE-wrenches] More Issues with Parallel Sol-Ark 15K System

[Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches]

I wish I didn't know what you guys were talking about :) !!! Both SS and
S-A. As I've been going through my learning curve with Midnite's AIO and
PF16, both Logan and Rick (and Richard at NAZ) have been there immediately
for me and have held my hand the whole time.

On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 1:43 PM Jay via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi Jason
>
> I had a similar situation at signature solar/eg4.
>
> Customer was having lots of random issues with 18kpv. That included
> multiple shut downs per day.
> After a few weeks of going through the same questions and answers I was
> able to find a good level 2 tech who agreed to replace the inverter.
> They were just locked into it’s a ground loop, or something. And it’s
> monitored online. They can look at it.
> 14 days later the inverter arrived.
> That’s good except it just showed up. No email, saying it shipped, nada.
>
>
> So yeah they just don’t have any concept of tech support. I mean they do
> answer the phones but if they don’t have answers what good is it?
> I do think it’s an issue with any growing company, more product more
> issues. Outback has gone through this process a few times, sometimes good,
> sometimes horrible. And of course the owner of Outback is also the owner of
> signature/eg4.
>
> Midnight is different, and I plan to use their stuff when I get a chance.
>
> FYI. I’ve got a 3 stack fortress 12kw
> That has been running perfectly for 8 months now.
>
> I’d say this is the new way, sucks.
>
> Jay
>
> On Dec 13, 2024, at 2:15 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> 
> Just a follow-up to this saga... After many many more hours of diagnostics
> with tech support, often repeated on subsequent calls, I finally had to get
> irritated enough to demand that they just swap out the inverter. On three
> different calls they made me take the inverter out of parallel mode and run
> it standalone to see if it works, and it did. But when put back in
> parallel, it would fault out again. Today they made me put the subject
> inverter as the master in parallel mode, and it worked. Then I switched it
> back to its original slave position and it faulted out again. They had the
> audacity to tell me that some inverters are just like that and I should use
> it as the master. Obviously that is a ridiculous resolution to the problem.
> I demanded that they fix their faulty product under warranty and they are
> now sending me a replacement board and screen. I have a pretty good degree
> of confidence that it will fix the problem, but it really should not have
> been this hard to get to this point.
>
> The troubleshooting process is broken at Sol-Ark. There is no continuum of
> severity that gets issues properly escalated and resolved. Repeated
> diagnostic measures just frustrate people and do not solve the issue. You
> have to get upset, and even nasty to speak to a supervisor. Meanwhile, the
> tier 1 agents are playing a game of telephone, relaying what the higher-ups
> are telling them to say. Some of them are knowledgeable, but many are just
> parroting what someone else to whispering in their ear, even when they
> don't have the full picture. It's like throwing spaghetti at a wall to see
> what sticks.
>
> I will report back when I get the replacement parts and try them out.
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Florida Solar Design Group
>
> On Sat, Nov 9, 2024, 10:15 AM Jason Szumlanski <
> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>
>> I wrote in another thread about an off-grid quad Sol-Ark system that was
>> shutting down due to parallel stop when one of the four inverters
>> experienced a DC PV fault, and how that shutdown is far from ideal. The
>> same system is down once again, this time due to an AC fault code.
>>
>> The homeowner started getting repeated F18 and F34 AC overcurrent faults
>> on one of the slave inverters. This, in turn, shut the entire system down
>> due to parallel stop faults (F41). None of the other units had AC
>> overcurrent faults, and the load is nowhere near requiring all four
>> inverters for even the most demanding circumstances. It was designed this
>> way for redundancy, which I am quickly finding out is not Sol-Ark's strong
>> suit.
>>
>> To diagnose the issue remotely, I had the owner turn off all four load
>> breakers, all DC PV input, and the AC microinverter input on the GEN
>> terminals. I had them restart everything (several times). Every time, the
>> same inverter would have repeated AC overcurrent faults, and the others
>> would have parallel system faults. Since there were no loads connected by
>> virtue of the load breakers being open, I suspected this had to be an
>> internal fault.
>>
>> I went to the site, and Sol-Ark Tier 1 tech support had me shut off all
>> inverters and take the suspect inverter out of parallel operation mode. As
>> a standalone master it was able to power up and support the entire house
>> load without issue. Then we reprogramme

[RE-wrenches] SolarEdge

[Lou Russo via RE-wrenches]

Wrenches,

We maintain a SolarEdge 119kW (564 panels) small commercial grid tied
system without ESS that we did not install. We were brought in at the
bitter end to commission and get the interconnection agreement with the
power company all set up. It has been about 4 years and we have replaced 5
of the 7 inverters and what seems like an endless amount of optimizers.

I am toying with the idea of proposing that we move away from SolarEdge. It
seems ridiculous on the surface but so is the money spent by the client
fixing this system 2 to 3 times a year. Regardless, financially it does not
make sense but functionally it is incredibly frustrating for everyone
involved to keep fixing this system.

What would you do?

Aloha,

Lou Russo
Owner
l...@spreesolarsystems.com
Office - 808 345 6762
Spree Solar Systems LLC
CT-34322
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Re: [RE-wrenches] More Issues with Parallel Sol-Ark 15K System

[Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches]

Thank you for this tip. I did look at that today. It appears that all four
units have identical hardware. I closely compared them and the circuit
boards all appear identical.  While one serial number was pretty far away
from the other three, that was not the offending unit, and it appears
identical to the others.

Jason




On Fri, Dec 13, 2024, 7:51 PM Tyrone Houck via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Any further investigation into the hardware differences between the newer
> 15k and the original 15k I mentioned before? That was the only thing that
> fixed the issue for us. We had to insist they replaced it with a newer
> matching inverter. I should have made note of the serial numbers to try to
> narrow down the time frame when they changed the design. The newer design
> has a small circuit board bolted to the bottom of the enclosure that wasn't
> present in the original..
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 9, 2024, 7:16 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> I wrote in another thread about an off-grid quad Sol-Ark system that was
>> shutting down due to parallel stop when one of the four inverters
>> experienced a DC PV fault, and how that shutdown is far from ideal. The
>> same system is down once again, this time due to an AC fault code.
>>
>> The homeowner started getting repeated F18 and F34 AC overcurrent faults
>> on one of the slave inverters. This, in turn, shut the entire system down
>> due to parallel stop faults (F41). None of the other units had AC
>> overcurrent faults, and the load is nowhere near requiring all four
>> inverters for even the most demanding circumstances. It was designed this
>> way for redundancy, which I am quickly finding out is not Sol-Ark's strong
>> suit.
>>
>> To diagnose the issue remotely, I had the owner turn off all four load
>> breakers, all DC PV input, and the AC microinverter input on the GEN
>> terminals. I had them restart everything (several times). Every time, the
>> same inverter would have repeated AC overcurrent faults, and the others
>> would have parallel system faults. Since there were no loads connected by
>> virtue of the load breakers being open, I suspected this had to be an
>> internal fault.
>>
>> I went to the site, and Sol-Ark Tier 1 tech support had me shut off all
>> inverters and take the suspect inverter out of parallel operation mode. As
>> a standalone master it was able to power up and support the entire house
>> load without issue. Then we reprogrammed it for parallel operation again
>> and turned everything back on. We were unable to stay on the phone long
>> enough to determine if this was successful, but ultimately, the fault
>> returned. I was told to call and ask for Tier 2 next time if it happened
>> again, which I intend to do on Monday. At this point, the issue can only be
>> internal to the unit, and I intend to demand warranty replacement of
>> suspect components or the whole unit.
>>
>> I had to get the system running, so I wanted to take the bad inverter out
>> of the parallel system. I was hoping that simply shutting it down would
>> work. This is the third of 4 inverters in the Modbus chain. When turning it
>> off completely (all AC and DC switches disconnected), the 4th inverter
>> would fault, presumably because the Modbus signal was not being relayed,
>> but inverters #1 and #2 worked fine. However, I wanted #4 to also continue
>> working while taking #3 out of service. So then I turned on the battery
>> disconnect for #3 but left it in the off mode by not pressing the on/off
>> button, thinking that it would allow relay of the Modbus signal from #2 to
>> #4. That allowed the system to work momentarily, but then everything
>> faulted out due to parallel system stop. In other words, I was going to
>> have to physically take #3 out of the Modbus daisy chain to make this work.
>>
>> Of course, I didn't have a long enough Cat5 cable with me, nor a Cat5
>> splice connector. So I had to rig something, which I did successfully to
>> jumper from #2 to #4. But when I turned everything back on, #4 still would
>> not work. I eventually realized that you have to change the Modbus address
>> from 04 to 03 in the settings. Apparently, the addresses need to be
>> sequential for it to work. Once I did this, I was able to get the system up
>> and running again as a triple-inverter parallel setup. No faults were
>> observed. So the theory was proven that #3 has an issue internally.
>>
>>
>> Anyway, bottom line, I am disappointed at how one inverter fault takes
>> down the whole paralleled system, and also how taking a faulted inverter
>> out of the system requires physical and programming changes. Turning it off
>> should be sufficient. This is a very poor way to implement a parallel
>> system that should provide the peace of mind that redundancy implies. Now I
>> have a customer who thought they were getting a system with failsafe
>> redundancy that actually requires a serv

Re: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge

[Tyrone Houck via RE-wrenches]

Around that time there were some issues with solaredge
equipment..specifically bad optimizers the SE tech support affectionately
dubbed "sleepy optimizers". We had one job from that production run that we
replaced several of the optimizers on.. in general though we've had great
luck with solaredge otherwise with very few optimizer failures and the
occasional inverter replacement(always straightforward and timely
processing of the RMA). Just my experience but this seemed like an
appropriate time to chime in.

Tyrone Houck
Oregon Solarworks LLC
LRT #076
541-787-1366
tyroneho...@gmail.com
tyr...@oregonsolarworks.com




On Fri, Dec 13, 2024, 5:02 PM Lou Russo via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Wrenches,
>
> We maintain a SolarEdge 119kW (564 panels) small commercial grid tied
> system without ESS that we did not install. We were brought in at the
> bitter end to commission and get the interconnection agreement with the
> power company all set up. It has been about 4 years and we have replaced 5
> of the 7 inverters and what seems like an endless amount of optimizers.
>
> I am toying with the idea of proposing that we move away from SolarEdge.
> It seems ridiculous on the surface but so is the money spent by the client
> fixing this system 2 to 3 times a year. Regardless, financially it does not
> make sense but functionally it is incredibly frustrating for everyone
> involved to keep fixing this system.
>
> What would you do?
>
> Aloha,
>
> Lou Russo
> Owner
> l...@spreesolarsystems.com
> Office - 808 345 6762
> Spree Solar Systems LLC
> CT-34322
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge

[Howard Scot Arey via RE-wrenches]

What a swap over...we have a muni project where the higher voltage optimizers on the 480v inverter allowed us to minimize conductor sizing. New central inverter would need to support strings that use that size. And then the labor to remove all those optimizers! But we're replacing one of those inverters so I hear your argument.  Look forward to hearing your decision.Howard "Scot" AreyOwner, Solar CenTexNABCEP PV Installation ProfessionalTECL 29755254-300-1228 From: RE-wrenches  on behalf of Tyrone Houck via RE-wrenches Sent: Friday, December 13, 2024 8:54:02 PMTo: RE-wrenches Cc: Tyrone Houck Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdgeAround that time there were some issues with solaredge equipment..specifically bad optimizers the SE tech support affectionately dubbed "sleepy optimizers". We had one job from that production run that we replaced several of the optimizers on.. in general though we've had great luck with solaredge otherwise with very few optimizer failures and the occasional inverter replacement(always straightforward and timely processing of the RMA). Just my experience but this seemed like an appropriate time to chime in.Tyrone Houck Oregon Solarworks LLC LRT #076 541-787-1366 tyroneho...@gmail.com tyr...@oregonsolarworks.com On Fri, Dec 13, 2024, 5:02 PM Lou Russo via RE-wrenches  wrote:Wrenches,We maintain a SolarEdge 119kW (564 panels) small commercial grid tied system without ESS that we did not install. We were brought in at the bitter end to commission and get the interconnection agreement with the power company all set up. It has been about 4 years and we have replaced 5 of the 7 inverters and what seems like an endless amount of optimizers. I am toying with the idea of proposing that we move away from SolarEdge. It seems ridiculous on the surface but so is the money spent by the client fixing this system 2 to 3 times a year. Regardless, financially it does not make sense but functionally it is incredibly frustrating for everyone involved to keep fixing this system.What would you do?Aloha,Lou Russo Ownerl...@spreesolarsystems.comOffice - 808 345 6762Spree Solar Systems LLC CT-34322
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Re: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge

[david quattro via RE-wrenches]

If it’s tilt-up arrays, it’s definitely worth it. If it’s flush Mount
then.. maybe.
 I’d tell the owner you simply don’t want to maintain it with Solaredge
components. They can either find a different contractor, or let you upgrade
the inverters.
   In my experience Solaredge had a high failure rate, but they made up for
it with marginal customer service.  I stopped installing their gear years.



On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 7:05 PM Howard Scot Arey via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> What a swap over...we have a muni project where the higher voltage
> optimizers on the 480v inverter allowed us to minimize conductor sizing.
> New central inverter would need to support strings that use that size. And
> then the labor to remove all those optimizers! But we're replacing one of
> those inverters so I hear your argument.  Look forward to hearing your
> decision.
>
> *Howard "Scot" Arey*
> *Owner, Solar CenTex*
>
> NABCEP PV Installation Professional
> TECL 29755
> 254-300-1228
>
> --
> *From:* RE-wrenches  on behalf
> of Tyrone Houck via RE-wrenches 
> *Sent:* Friday, December 13, 2024 8:54:02 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches 
> *Cc:* Tyrone Houck 
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge
>
> Around that time there were some issues with solaredge
> equipment..specifically bad optimizers the SE tech support affectionately
> dubbed "sleepy optimizers". We had one job from that production run that we
> replaced several of the optimizers on.. in general though we've had great
> luck with solaredge otherwise with very few optimizer failures and the
> occasional inverter replacement(always straightforward and timely
> processing of the RMA). Just my experience but this seemed like an
> appropriate time to chime in.
>
> Tyrone Houck
> Oregon Solarworks LLC
> LRT #076
> 541-787-1366
> tyroneho...@gmail.com
> tyr...@oregonsolarworks.com
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 13, 2024, 5:02 PM Lou Russo via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Wrenches,
>>
>> We maintain a SolarEdge 119kW (564 panels) small commercial grid tied
>> system without ESS that we did not install. We were brought in at the
>> bitter end to commission and get the interconnection agreement with the
>> power company all set up. It has been about 4 years and we have replaced 5
>> of the 7 inverters and what seems like an endless amount of optimizers.
>>
>> I am toying with the idea of proposing that we move away from SolarEdge.
>> It seems ridiculous on the surface but so is the money spent by the client
>> fixing this system 2 to 3 times a year. Regardless, financially it does not
>> make sense but functionally it is incredibly frustrating for everyone
>> involved to keep fixing this system.
>>
>> What would you do?
>>
>> Aloha,
>>
>> Lou Russo
>> Owner
>> l...@spreesolarsystems.com
>> Office - 808 345 6762
>> Spree Solar Systems LLC
>> CT-34322
>>
>> ___
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>>
>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
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