Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Batteries and IQ7+ Won't Restart

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Wrenches, Wayne
Everything l am hearing is a major drawback to AC Coupling, so here is a
fix that l have used, with a MTS or better yet an ATS connected above the
inverter connection to a genset, this will simulate a grid connection and
as long as you can wake up the inverters then your good. Now if not you
will need to charge each individual battery and for this take to enphase.
Good luck
Fun times

On Mon, Sep 30, 2024, 4:52 PM Wayne Irwin via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hurricane Helene has taught us the hard way that Enphase batteries with
> anything other than IQ8's won't restart.
> The issue is that when the batteries try to restart (at the
> non-programmable time of 9:AM) if there are any significant loads, the
> batteries will not stay on long enough (300+ seconds) for any non-IQ8
> micros to energize. The battery will attempt multiple times, but if there
> is a load, (such as a well pump) the draw from the load will essentially
> prohibit the batteries from energizing the micros long enough to engage and
> produce. The only solution is to have a load controller or turn off all
> loads once the power goes out. Otherwise, during these "attempts to turn
> on" power in the house will momentarily turn on and back off and
> potentially drain the batteries down to lower than the point of which they
> can even attempt to restart. I spoke at length with Enphase upper
> engineering (not tech support) about this today. They now know that most of
> the tech support staff does not know this important information.
>
> Once the batteries are dead, they are very difficult if not impossible to
> jump start with a generator. At the recommendation of tech support we tried
> multiple times with the "approved" inverter generator which ultimatly just
> wasted our time. Even though the controller/switch will accept the gen
> power and pass the energy to the loads, it will not energize the combiner
> or batteries. If your goal is to have an autonomous system with Enphase,
> it's only going to happen with the IQ8's (at this point).
>
> This is a significant issue with retrofitting older systems.
>
> By the way:
> - We've received numerous desperate calls from (orphaned) Powerwall owners
> whose systems also won't turn back on.
> - ALL of our Outback systems were issue free.
>
> I hope this helps some of you. Good Luck out there!
>
> Wayne Irwin
> President
> License #CVC56695
> State Licensed Solar Contractor
> Pure Energy Solar International Inc.
> wa...@pureenergysolar.com
> PureEnergySolar.com 
> SolarChargingStation.com 
> 352 377-6527 Office
> 352 336-3299 Fax
>
>
> The Sun Is Always Shining!
>
> The content of this message is Pure Energy Solar Confidential. If you are
> not the intended recipient and have received this message in error, any use
> or distribution is prohibited. Please notify me immediately by reply e-mail
> and delete this message from your computer system. Thank you.
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge Battery question

[Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches]

I will blast through the certification training before Thursday and let you
know what I find. Thanks for the tips on SetApp.

Jason Szumlanski
Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208


On Mon, Sep 30, 2024 at 9:29 PM Garrison via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi Jason,
>
> On a recent install 2 of 3 new batteries had a low SOE and failed the self
> test. This made sense as part of the self test is discharging the battery,
> which you wouldn’t want to do if the batteries are depleted. Anyway, the
> low SOE batteries also had trouble “associating” with the inverter and were
> not charging as a result. In the set app > device manager it took a few
> tries but eventually they “associated” and started charging and passed the
> self test. Not sure if that’s the issue here, but might be a place to start.
>
> I agree with Dana that support probably won’t help you if you are not
> certified just fyi. Part of the certification training does walk you
> through the SetApp configuration so is actually helpful.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Garrison Riegel
> Celestar Solar
>
> On Sep 30, 2024, at 6:00 PM, Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Hey Jason are you “battery Certified” SE is pretty sticky on this point.
> As to your Q I have not had to deal with this issue.
>
>
>
> _
>
> Dana OrzelGREAT SOLAR WORKS!
>
> C – 208.721.7003  E – d...@solarwork.com
>
> W - www. greatsolarworks.com www.solarwork.com
>
> *“Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!”*
>
>
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Batteries and IQ7+ Won't Restart

[Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this is also the case with IQ8
microinverters. The batteries must be able to sustain the load for up to 6
minutes to allow the microinverters to attempt to charge the battery. If
you have loads that exceed the battery output capacity, it could cause the
microgrid to collapse before PV can start charging.

But that is also the case at night - you should not have loads (or inrush
currents) that exceed the combined battery output capability without load
control or manual control of loads.

Here is a link to the document that explains this:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_jvHvTqZFs5Tutptaq_jbbl94GOrao7x/view?usp=sharing



Jason Szumlanski
Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208


On Mon, Sep 30, 2024 at 7:52 PM Wayne Irwin via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hurricane Helene has taught us the hard way that Enphase batteries with
> anything other than IQ8's won't restart.
> The issue is that when the batteries try to restart (at the
> non-programmable time of 9:AM) if there are any significant loads, the
> batteries will not stay on long enough (300+ seconds) for any non-IQ8
> micros to energize. The battery will attempt multiple times, but if there
> is a load, (such as a well pump) the draw from the load will essentially
> prohibit the batteries from energizing the micros long enough to engage and
> produce. The only solution is to have a load controller or turn off all
> loads once the power goes out. Otherwise, during these "attempts to turn
> on" power in the house will momentarily turn on and back off and
> potentially drain the batteries down to lower than the point of which they
> can even attempt to restart. I spoke at length with Enphase upper
> engineering (not tech support) about this today. They now know that most of
> the tech support staff does not know this important information.
>
> Once the batteries are dead, they are very difficult if not impossible to
> jump start with a generator. At the recommendation of tech support we tried
> multiple times with the "approved" inverter generator which ultimatly just
> wasted our time. Even though the controller/switch will accept the gen
> power and pass the energy to the loads, it will not energize the combiner
> or batteries. If your goal is to have an autonomous system with Enphase,
> it's only going to happen with the IQ8's (at this point).
>
> This is a significant issue with retrofitting older systems.
>
> By the way:
> - We've received numerous desperate calls from (orphaned) Powerwall owners
> whose systems also won't turn back on.
> - ALL of our Outback systems were issue free.
>
> I hope this helps some of you. Good Luck out there!
>
> Wayne Irwin
> President
> License #CVC56695
> State Licensed Solar Contractor
> Pure Energy Solar International Inc.
> wa...@pureenergysolar.com
> PureEnergySolar.com 
> SolarChargingStation.com 
> 352 377-6527 Office
> 352 336-3299 Fax
>
>
> The Sun Is Always Shining!
>
> The content of this message is Pure Energy Solar Confidential. If you are
> not the intended recipient and have received this message in error, any use
> or distribution is prohibited. Please notify me immediately by reply e-mail
> and delete this message from your computer system. Thank you.
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
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> other:
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Batteries and IQ7+ Won't Restart

[Wayne Irwin via RE-wrenches]

The issue with the loads is a good point.
According to my conversation with Enphase: because the IQ8's will form their 
own microgrid with sunlight, once the batteries attempt to restart at 9AM the 
micros will immediately connect and produce. That said it would seem that in 
any case there must me a load controller incorporated.
Here's the link:  
load-and-solar-circuit-control-using-iq-system-controller-auxiliary-contacts-tech-brief
 
(enphase.com)

Does anyone from Enphase want to chime in here?

Wayne Irwin
President
License #CVC56695
State Licensed Solar Contractor
Pure Energy Solar International Inc.
wa...@pureenergysolar.com
PureEnergySolar.com
SolarChargingStation.com
352 377-6527 Office
352 336-3299 Fax


The Sun Is Always Shining!

The content of this message is Pure Energy Solar Confidential. If you are not 
the intended recipient and have received this message in error, any use or 
distribution is prohibited. Please notify me immediately by reply e-mail and 
delete this message from your computer system. Thank you.


From: Jason Szumlanski 
Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2024 2:34 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Wayne Irwin 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Batteries and IQ7+ Won't Restart

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this is also the case with IQ8 
microinverters. The batteries must be able to sustain the load for up to 6 
minutes to allow the microinverters to attempt to charge the battery. If you 
have loads that exceed the battery output capacity, it could cause the 
microgrid to collapse before PV can start charging.

But that is also the case at night - you should not have loads (or inrush 
currents) that exceed the combined battery output capability without load 
control or manual control of loads.

Here is a link to the document that explains this:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_jvHvTqZFs5Tutptaq_jbbl94GOrao7x/view?usp=sharing



Jason Szumlanski
Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208


On Mon, Sep 30, 2024 at 7:52 PM Wayne Irwin via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> 
wrote:
Hurricane Helene has taught us the hard way that Enphase batteries with 
anything other than IQ8's won't restart.
The issue is that when the batteries try to restart (at the non-programmable 
time of 9:AM) if there are any significant loads, the batteries will not stay 
on long enough (300+ seconds) for any non-IQ8 micros to energize. The battery 
will attempt multiple times, but if there is a load, (such as a well pump) the 
draw from the load will essentially prohibit the batteries from energizing the 
micros long enough to engage and produce. The only solution is to have a load 
controller or turn off all loads once the power goes out. Otherwise, during 
these "attempts to turn on" power in the house will momentarily turn on and 
back off and potentially drain the batteries down to lower than the point of 
which they can even attempt to restart. I spoke at length with Enphase upper 
engineering (not tech support) about this today. They now know that most of the 
tech support staff does not know this important information.

Once the batteries are dead, they are very difficult if not impossible to jump 
start with a generator. At the recommendation of tech support we tried multiple 
times with the "approved" inverter generator which ultimatly just wasted our 
time. Even though the controller/switch will accept the gen power and pass the 
energy to the loads, it will not energize the combiner or batteries. If your 
goal is to have an autonomous system with Enphase, it's only going to happen 
with the IQ8's (at this point).

This is a significant issue with retrofitting older systems.

By the way:
- We've received numerous desperate calls from (orphaned) Powerwall owners 
whose systems also won't turn back on.
- ALL of our Outback systems were issue free.

I hope this helps some of you. Good Luck out there!

Wayne Irwin
President
License #CVC56695
State Licensed Solar Contractor
Pure Energy Solar International Inc.
wa...@pureenergysolar.com
PureEnergySolar.com
SolarChargingStation.com
352 377-6527 Office
352 336-3299 Fax


The Sun Is Always Shining!

The content of this message is Pure Energy Solar Confidential. If you are not 
the intended recipient and have received this message in error, any use or 
distribution is prohibited. Please notify me immediately by reply e-mail and 
delete this message from your computer system. Thank you.

___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Batteries and IQ7+ Won't Restart

[Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches]

That may be the case, but if the load exceeds the total battery plus
microinverter output at the time, the microgrid will still fail. Early in
the morning, having IQ8s won't make much difference versus IQ7s. It might
help at high irradiance levels.

Rather than load control, another strategy might be introducing time delay
relays for heavy loads. When power is restored, you could set a load like a
well pump to stay off for 10 minutes or something like that.



On Tue, Oct 1, 2024, 5:22 PM Wayne Irwin 
wrote:

> The issue with the loads is a good point.
> According to my conversation with Enphase: because the IQ8's will form
> their own microgrid with sunlight, once the batteries attempt to restart at
> 9AM the micros will immediately connect and produce. That said it would
> seem that in any case there must me a load controller incorporated.
> Here's the link:  
> load-and-solar-circuit-control-using-iq-system-controller-auxiliary-contacts-tech-brief
> (enphase.com)
> 
>
> *Does anyone from Enphase want to chime in here?*
>
> Wayne Irwin
> President
> License #CVC56695
> State Licensed Solar Contractor
> Pure Energy Solar International Inc.
> wa...@pureenergysolar.com
> PureEnergySolar.com 
> SolarChargingStation.com 
> 352 377-6527 Office
> 352 336-3299 Fax
>
>
> The Sun Is Always Shining!
>
> The content of this message is Pure Energy Solar Confidential. If you are
> not the intended recipient and have received this message in error, any use
> or distribution is prohibited. Please notify me immediately by reply e-mail
> and delete this message from your computer system. Thank you.
>
> --
> *From:* Jason Szumlanski 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 1, 2024 2:34 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches 
> *Cc:* Wayne Irwin 
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Batteries and IQ7+ Won't Restart
>
> I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this is also the case with IQ8
> microinverters. The batteries must be able to sustain the load for up to 6
> minutes to allow the microinverters to attempt to charge the battery. If
> you have loads that exceed the battery output capacity, it could cause the
> microgrid to collapse before PV can start charging.
>
> But that is also the case at night - you should not have loads (or inrush
> currents) that exceed the combined battery output capability without load
> control or manual control of loads.
>
> Here is a link to the document that explains this:
>
>
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_jvHvTqZFs5Tutptaq_jbbl94GOrao7x/view?usp=sharing
>
>
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 30, 2024 at 7:52 PM Wayne Irwin via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> Hurricane Helene has taught us the hard way that Enphase batteries with
> anything other than IQ8's won't restart.
> The issue is that when the batteries try to restart (at the
> non-programmable time of 9:AM) if there are any significant loads, the
> batteries will not stay on long enough (300+ seconds) for any non-IQ8
> micros to energize. The battery will attempt multiple times, but if there
> is a load, (such as a well pump) the draw from the load will essentially
> prohibit the batteries from energizing the micros long enough to engage and
> produce. The only solution is to have a load controller or turn off all
> loads once the power goes out. Otherwise, during these "attempts to turn
> on" power in the house will momentarily turn on and back off and
> potentially drain the batteries down to lower than the point of which they
> can even attempt to restart. I spoke at length with Enphase upper
> engineering (not tech support) about this today. They now know that most of
> the tech support staff does not know this important information.
>
> Once the batteries are dead, they are very difficult if not impossible to
> jump start with a generator. At the recommendation of tech support we tried
> multiple times with the "approved" inverter generator which ultimatly just
> wasted our time. Even though the controller/switch will accept the gen
> power and pass the energy to the loads, it will not energize the combiner
> or batteries. If your goal is to have an autonomous system with Enphase,
> it's only going to happen with the IQ8's (at this point).
>
> This is a significant issue with retrofitting older systems.
>
> By the way:
> - We've received numerous desperate calls from (orphaned) Powerwall owners
> whose systems also won't turn back on.
> - ALL of our Outback systems were issue free.
>
> I hope this helps some of you. Good Luck out there!
>
> Wayne Irwin
> President
> License #CVC56695
> State Licensed Sola