Re: [RE-wrenches] sol ark AGS question

2023-09-15 Thread Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches
We learned of this major deficiency after an eight unit install. No cool
down is disastrous to modern diesels. Our work around was installing a
400amp contactor and macromatic programmable relay.

On Thu, Sep 14, 2023 at 10:05 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Jay, wrenches
> ASCO makes multiple ATS controls that can manage delays latching up and
> for cool down. Most of the gensets have are  programmed cool down after
> relay opens so its not an issue. Generally on start up the genny connects
> as soon as it's voltage and freq are within range.
> fun times
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 14, 2023, 2:26 PM jay via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I have a client with a sol ark and it doesn’t have warm up or cool down,
>> kind of amazing companies are going backwards in their tech.
>>
>>
>> Has anyone come up with external fix for this?
>>
>> I am guessing the internal relay on the sol ark switches closed when it
>> sees the correct volts/hz and opens the sol ark relay when it sends the off
>> signal.
>>
>> If thats correct I  can pretty easily use a delay relay on the off cycle
>> assuming the on signal has a time window to allow for this delay in sending
>> power to the inverter.
>>
>>  The on delay I don’t see anyway unless I use a contactor with on delay
>> relay.
>>
>> Maybe there is a off the shelf generator transfer switch that has this
>> built in?
>>
>> Thanks in advance
>>
>> Jay
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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-- 

Michael Morningstar


Morningstar Electric

PO Box 1494

Mount Shasta, CA 96067

530-921-0560

mjmornings...@gmail.com
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Re: [RE-wrenches] sol ark AGS question

2023-09-15 Thread Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches
I just replaced two Sunny Islands and one Sunny Boy that I did not install
with a single Sol-Ark 15k today. The generator installer (not me) had
already installed a custom but simple time delay relay. I didn't get into
the logic of it, but from what I understand the generator already had a
cool-down period when remote start signal is lost, but no warm up delay.

Major deficiency? I think that is actually pretty accurate and Sol-Ark
should fix it, but it isn't too hard to take care of it another way.

I wonder if this has something with the distinction of accepting generator
input on the grid input as well. You would not want a grid delay if it were
a utility. Still, they should be able to build in that logic I would think.

Jason Szumlanski
Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956


On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 8:28 AM Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> We learned of this major deficiency after an eight unit install. No cool
> down is disastrous to modern diesels. Our work around was installing a
> 400amp contactor and macromatic programmable relay.
>
> On Thu, Sep 14, 2023 at 10:05 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Jay, wrenches
>> ASCO makes multiple ATS controls that can manage delays latching up and
>> for cool down. Most of the gensets have are  programmed cool down after
>> relay opens so its not an issue. Generally on start up the genny connects
>> as soon as it's voltage and freq are within range.
>> fun times
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 14, 2023, 2:26 PM jay via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> I have a client with a sol ark and it doesn’t have warm up or cool down,
>>> kind of amazing companies are going backwards in their tech.
>>>
>>>
>>> Has anyone come up with external fix for this?
>>>
>>> I am guessing the internal relay on the sol ark switches closed when it
>>> sees the correct volts/hz and opens the sol ark relay when it sends the off
>>> signal.
>>>
>>> If thats correct I  can pretty easily use a delay relay on the off cycle
>>> assuming the on signal has a time window to allow for this delay in sending
>>> power to the inverter.
>>>
>>>  The on delay I don’t see anyway unless I use a contactor with on delay
>>> relay.
>>>
>>> Maybe there is a off the shelf generator transfer switch that has this
>>> built in?
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance
>>>
>>> Jay
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
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>>>
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>
> --
>
> Michael Morningstar
>
>
> Morningstar Electric
>
> PO Box 1494
>
> Mount Shasta, CA 96067
>
> 530-921-0560
>
> mjmornings...@gmail.com
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] sol ark AGS question

2023-09-15 Thread Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches
In an off-grid scenario I would suggest utilizing the grid connect timer as
a Gen warm up. I typically set this qualification time to 30 or 60 seconds.
Sol Ark fixed the problem with dropping the 2 wire start under full load,
so if this is an issue for you, I would update the firmware.

On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 4:56 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> I just replaced two Sunny Islands and one Sunny Boy that I did not install
> with a single Sol-Ark 15k today. The generator installer (not me) had
> already installed a custom but simple time delay relay. I didn't get into
> the logic of it, but from what I understand the generator already had a
> cool-down period when remote start signal is lost, but no warm up delay.
>
> Major deficiency? I think that is actually pretty accurate and Sol-Ark
> should fix it, but it isn't too hard to take care of it another way.
>
> I wonder if this has something with the distinction of accepting generator
> input on the grid input as well. You would not want a grid delay if it were
> a utility. Still, they should be able to build in that logic I would think.
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 8:28 AM Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> We learned of this major deficiency after an eight unit install. No cool
>> down is disastrous to modern diesels. Our work around was installing a
>> 400amp contactor and macromatic programmable relay.
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 14, 2023 at 10:05 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Jay, wrenches
>>> ASCO makes multiple ATS controls that can manage delays latching up and
>>> for cool down. Most of the gensets have are  programmed cool down after
>>> relay opens so its not an issue. Generally on start up the genny connects
>>> as soon as it's voltage and freq are within range.
>>> fun times
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 14, 2023, 2:26 PM jay via RE-wrenches <
>>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>
 Hi All,

 I have a client with a sol ark and it doesn’t have warm up or cool
 down, kind of amazing companies are going backwards in their tech.


 Has anyone come up with external fix for this?

 I am guessing the internal relay on the sol ark switches closed when it
 sees the correct volts/hz and opens the sol ark relay when it sends the off
 signal.

 If thats correct I  can pretty easily use a delay relay on the off
 cycle assuming the on signal has a time window to allow for this delay in
 sending power to the inverter.

  The on delay I don’t see anyway unless I use a contactor with on delay
 relay.

 Maybe there is a off the shelf generator transfer switch that has this
 built in?

 Thanks in advance

 Jay






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 ___
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>
>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
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>>
>> --
>>
>> Michael Morningstar
>>
>>
>> Morningstar Electric
>>
>> PO Box 1494
>>
>> Mount Shasta, CA 96067
>>
>> 530-921-0560
>>
>> mjmornings...@gmail.com
>>
>>
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.

Re: [RE-wrenches] sol ark AGS question

2023-09-15 Thread Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches
I saw that setting. I didn't have a chance to look it up today, but I'm
going back to the site tomorrow. I'm going to play with that and try to get
rid of the ancillary equipment that is no longer necessary. Thanks for the
tip.

On Fri, Sep 15, 2023, 5:26 PM Chris Sparadeo 
wrote:

> In an off-grid scenario I would suggest utilizing the grid connect timer
> as a Gen warm up. I typically set this qualification time to 30 or 60
> seconds. Sol Ark fixed the problem with dropping the 2 wire start under
> full load, so if this is an issue for you, I would update the firmware.
>
> On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 4:56 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> I just replaced two Sunny Islands and one Sunny Boy that I did not
>> install with a single Sol-Ark 15k today. The generator installer (not me)
>> had already installed a custom but simple time delay relay. I didn't get
>> into the logic of it, but from what I understand the generator already had
>> a cool-down period when remote start signal is lost, but no warm up delay.
>>
>> Major deficiency? I think that is actually pretty accurate and Sol-Ark
>> should fix it, but it isn't too hard to take care of it another way.
>>
>> I wonder if this has something with the distinction of accepting
>> generator input on the grid input as well. You would not want a grid delay
>> if it were a utility. Still, they should be able to build in that logic I
>> would think.
>>
>> Jason Szumlanski
>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 8:28 AM Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> We learned of this major deficiency after an eight unit install. No cool
>>> down is disastrous to modern diesels. Our work around was installing a
>>> 400amp contactor and macromatic programmable relay.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 14, 2023 at 10:05 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches <
>>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>
 Jay, wrenches
 ASCO makes multiple ATS controls that can manage delays latching up and
 for cool down. Most of the gensets have are  programmed cool down after
 relay opens so its not an issue. Generally on start up the genny connects
 as soon as it's voltage and freq are within range.
 fun times



 On Thu, Sep 14, 2023, 2:26 PM jay via RE-wrenches <
 re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I have a client with a sol ark and it doesn’t have warm up or cool
> down, kind of amazing companies are going backwards in their tech.
>
>
> Has anyone come up with external fix for this?
>
> I am guessing the internal relay on the sol ark switches closed when
> it sees the correct volts/hz and opens the sol ark relay when it sends the
> off signal.
>
> If thats correct I  can pretty easily use a delay relay on the off
> cycle assuming the on signal has a time window to allow for this delay in
> sending power to the inverter.
>
>  The on delay I don’t see anyway unless I use a contactor with on
> delay relay.
>
> Maybe there is a off the shelf generator transfer switch that has this
> built in?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Jay
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
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>
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>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Michael Mornin

Re: [RE-wrenches] sol ark AGS question

2023-09-15 Thread Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches
Chris,
Just so that I understand correctly, are you saying that new firmware
allows for generator cool down?


On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 2:33 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> I saw that setting. I didn't have a chance to look it up today, but I'm
> going back to the site tomorrow. I'm going to play with that and try to get
> rid of the ancillary equipment that is no longer necessary. Thanks for the
> tip.
>
> On Fri, Sep 15, 2023, 5:26 PM Chris Sparadeo 
> wrote:
>
>> In an off-grid scenario I would suggest utilizing the grid connect timer
>> as a Gen warm up. I typically set this qualification time to 30 or 60
>> seconds. Sol Ark fixed the problem with dropping the 2 wire start under
>> full load, so if this is an issue for you, I would update the firmware.
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 4:56 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I just replaced two Sunny Islands and one Sunny Boy that I did not
>>> install with a single Sol-Ark 15k today. The generator installer (not me)
>>> had already installed a custom but simple time delay relay. I didn't get
>>> into the logic of it, but from what I understand the generator already had
>>> a cool-down period when remote start signal is lost, but no warm up delay.
>>>
>>> Major deficiency? I think that is actually pretty accurate and Sol-Ark
>>> should fix it, but it isn't too hard to take care of it another way.
>>>
>>> I wonder if this has something with the distinction of accepting
>>> generator input on the grid input as well. You would not want a grid delay
>>> if it were a utility. Still, they should be able to build in that logic I
>>> would think.
>>>
>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 8:28 AM Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches <
>>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>
 We learned of this major deficiency after an eight unit install. No
 cool down is disastrous to modern diesels. Our work around was installing a
 400amp contactor and macromatic programmable relay.

 On Thu, Sep 14, 2023 at 10:05 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches <
 re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Jay, wrenches
> ASCO makes multiple ATS controls that can manage delays latching up
> and for cool down. Most of the gensets have are  programmed cool down 
> after
> relay opens so its not an issue. Generally on start up the genny connects
> as soon as it's voltage and freq are within range.
> fun times
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 14, 2023, 2:26 PM jay via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I have a client with a sol ark and it doesn’t have warm up or cool
>> down, kind of amazing companies are going backwards in their tech.
>>
>>
>> Has anyone come up with external fix for this?
>>
>> I am guessing the internal relay on the sol ark switches closed when
>> it sees the correct volts/hz and opens the sol ark relay when it sends 
>> the
>> off signal.
>>
>> If thats correct I  can pretty easily use a delay relay on the off
>> cycle assuming the on signal has a time window to allow for this delay in
>> sending power to the inverter.
>>
>>  The on delay I don’t see anyway unless I use a contactor with on
>> delay relay.
>>
>> Maybe there is a off the shelf generator transfer switch that has
>> this built in?
>>
>> Thanks in advance
>>
>> Jay
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
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>>
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>

Re: [RE-wrenches] Franklin Home Power

2023-09-15 Thread Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches
Jason, Wrenches
I am familiar with Franklin and when I asked them about the battery they
had all the answers but when I asked about the AC coupled inverter inside,
mainly who made it is it field serviceable I got deer in the headlights and
a few weeks later I asked them the same thing and again no answer. I would
go with something that has been around some. You talked about Solark, I
have had no issues with any of their inverters and my latest install was
today connected to a fortress. Of course time will tell on anything we use,
Maybe franklin has made it known what is inside but for me I will not use
my customers as unknowing guinea pigs, I test products myself and see what
survives.
Jerry

On Thu, Sep 14, 2023 at 1:35 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Does anyone know if Franklin supports their AC-coupled battery solution in
> a completely off-grid scenario (no grid present)?
>
> I need to install a demonstration system with ~40kWh capacity to run loads
> in an outdoor off-grid facility. It needs to be wall mounted, NEMA 3R, and
> have 10kW AC output rating minimum. Aesthetics are important.
>
> I'm contemplating installing an Enphase 5P battery system, but it's not
> officially supported, even though I believe I can trick the system enough
> to get it commissioned and running in off-grid mode. If Franklin supports
> this, that's a checkmark in their column of the comparison chart.
>
> I'm not opposed to a 48V DC battery system with a Sol-Ark 15k or something
> like that, but I think my options for wall-mount, outdoor, and beautiful
> are going to be limited.
>
> I don't need any generator integration.
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Florida Solar Design Group
>
>
> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sunny Island/Fortress E-vault

2023-09-15 Thread Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches
William, Wrenches
Yes I do and it does require some basic electronics to make it work
correctly, you will need to remove the ttemp sender and make a
resistor pack to simulate the 77 degree reading otherwise it will not
charge properly, for the first one I used a breadboard to set the temp for
what I wanted to see then build a more solid state shrink wrap resistor.
Doing this will prevent undercharge by the SMA and your customer will be
happy to see the full state of charge at the batteries.
OldSchool fun times



On Thu, Sep 14, 2023 at 2:12 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Friends:
>
>
>
> I am commissioning an E-vault battery array to an existing SMA Sunny
> Island System.  Does anyone have any experience with this they could share?
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> William
>
>
>
> Miller Solar
>
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>
> 805-438-5600
>
> www.millersolar.com
>
> CA Lic. 773985
>
>
>
>
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