Re: [RE-wrenches] active vs apparent power readings with solar

[Kienan Maxfield via RE-wrenches]

I’m not sure if I fully get what’s was going on or where he was measuring… all 
of the readings are low (below 1 kW) if he was messing at the meter after the 
household load has combined with the PV output, then this could make sense. The 
household loads could be using some apparent power, but the inverters are only 
putting out real power, so the PV is offsetting all the real power but there’s 
still some apparent power left, so the overall power factor is ridiculously low.

On the other hand, if all the loads are turned off and he’s really only 
measuring the PV output, then something wrong and I’d think it’s more likely 
that the measurements are wrong because I don’t see any way that the PV could 
put out such a bad power factor.

Here’s a hypothetical of what I mean in the first paragraph… if load A had a PF 
of 0.8, and it’s consuming 3 kW, then it’s apparent power is 3.75 kVA. If the 
PV is producing 2.8 kW at a PF of 1, then it’s producing 2.8 kVA. The net 
reading would then be 0.2 kW real power and 0.95 kVA. That’s a PF of 0.21.
If the PV increases to 2.9 kW, then the real power is 0.1 and apparent power is 
0.85 which is a power factor of 0.11

Hopefully this helps…

Thanks,
Kienan


Green-Go Solar Distribution LLC

Maxfield Solar LLC (installation and consulting company)

maxfieldso...@hotmail.com

(801) 631-5584(Cell)

www.distribution.solar

On Apr 29, 2023, at 11:03 AM, Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Hi all, if the micros are not producing power I would expect an extremely low 
power factor.  The power factor of all inverters is low not in use.  Make sure 
electrician is measuring during production.  My measurements are extra low for 
micro inverters.

On Thu, Apr 27, 2023, 4:11 PM August Goers via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> 
wrote:
Hi Wrenches,

We have a residential site with grid tied solar where there is an electrician 
involved who has gotten into taking site readings and thinks there is a power 
factor problem. My gut on it is that there is some sort of measurement reading 
error, and that the power factor should be around 1.

The electrician is using a Fluke 3540FC power monitor and has provided a 
spreadsheet comparing active power to apparent power and calculating power 
factor. See below (you might have to open the image and zoom in to read it). 
This measurement was taken with a PV system running, presumably sending some 
power back to the grid.  Note that the phase B active power measurement is 
negative (PV exporting to grid) and that the apparent power is positive. This 
nets in a power factor that is crazy low of 0.05.

Does anyone have experience about whether a meter like this can properly 
measure these readings - maybe there is a setting error or it can't deal with 
negative readings?




Best,

August
Luminalt
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[RE-wrenches] problem using Radian on TOU metering

[Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches]

Hello, I apologize for perhaps a dumb question.  I did go online to
ask Outback twice, no answer.System Radian 8 kW and Mate3 with 2 each
1.5 kW solar arrays into 2 ea. MX60s.  Battery 20 kWh LiFe open loop.  The
owner wants the lowest energy bill.  The rates are; off-peak at 0.04/kWh
and on-peak at 0.21/kWh.  My choice is battery and solar on-peak 9:00 am to
9:00 pm.  However, the homeowner will deplete the battery on cloudy days,
AND the Outback will turn off leaving them without power.  Is there a way
to switch to grid power for this period?   I do not want to charge the
battery at this time.
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Re: [RE-wrenches] problem using Radian on TOU metering

[William Miller via RE-wrenches]

Darryl:



Here are a few suggestions:



1.   Don’t move to California.  Those rates are unheard of here for many
years.

2.  Grid-zero.  From the manual:  In *GridZero *mode, the Radian
inverter remains grid-connected, but prioritizes the use of battery or
renewable sources to run loads.

3.   Mini-grid. From the manual: In Mini Grid mode, the Radian inverter
automatically rejects an AC source and runs solely from battery (and
renewable) energy. The inverter only connects to the AC source (usually the
utility grid) when the batteries run too low.  While connected to the
utility grid, the inverter’s charger can be set either On or Off.

4.   HBX mode.  From the manual:  In High Battery Transfer (HBX) mode, the
system is connected to an AC source such as the utility grid; however, it
will use battery power as the fi rst priority. The AC source is locked out
until needed.

5.   Grid use time:  From the manual:  This function allows the system to
connect to (use) the utility grid and disconnect from (drop) it on a
schedule.

6.   Grid-tie:  Sell back and reduce the energy bill.



I will leave it to you to delve into these options and see if the work for
your application.  Some functions can be mixed, some cannot.



I hope this helps.



William Miller



Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com

CA Lic. 773985





*From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
Behalf Of *Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches
*Sent:* Tuesday, May 2, 2023 11:05 AM
*To:* newrewrenches
*Cc:* Darryl Thayer
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] problem using Radian on TOU metering



Hello, I apologize for perhaps a dumb question.  I did go online to
ask Outback twice, no answer.System Radian 8 kW and Mate3 with 2 each
1.5 kW solar arrays into 2 ea. MX60s.  Battery 20 kWh LiFe open loop.  The
owner wants the lowest energy bill.  The rates are; off-peak at 0.04/kWh
and on-peak at 0.21/kWh.  My choice is battery and solar on-peak 9:00 am to
9:00 pm.  However, the homeowner will deplete the battery on cloudy days,
AND the Outback will turn off leaving them without power.  Is there a way
to switch to grid power for this period?   I do not want to charge the
battery at this time.
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Re: [RE-wrenches] problem using Radian on TOU metering

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Which utility has such low rates?

SMUD?

Jay



> On May 2, 2023, at 12:05 PM, Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hello, I apologize for perhaps a dumb question.  I did go online to ask 
> Outback twice, no answer.System Radian 8 kW and Mate3 with 2 each 1.5 kW 
> solar arrays into 2 ea. MX60s.  Battery 20 kWh LiFe open loop.  The owner 
> wants the lowest energy bill.  The rates are; off-peak at 0.04/kWh and 
> on-peak at 0.21/kWh.  My choice is battery and solar on-peak 9:00 am to 9:00 
> pm.  However, the homeowner will deplete the battery on cloudy days,  AND the 
> Outback will turn off leaving them without power.  Is there a way to switch 
> to grid power for this period?   I do not want to charge the battery at this 
> time. 
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> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
> 
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
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> Change listserver email address & settings:
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