[RE-wrenches] Micro-hydro with L-ion

[frenergy]

Dearest off-gridders,
             OK, many of you micro-hydro fanatics on the west coast are 
stuck inside with all the smoke, time to put on your tin foil thinking 
caps


            I brought this up some time back but got little (zero 
maybe) feedback.  I'm hoping there are some other micro-hydro folks out 
there that have figured out how to marry a Harris pelton, to a L-ion 
battery for charging.  Outputs vary with rainfall/snow-melt from 3 amps 
to 28 amps (24V).  Over the years with LA batteries, I've simply used a 
Trace C40 PWM CC between the battery and mondo load resistors (two 
configurations due to varying hydro output).  Of course sometimes the 
output and resistor load did not match and I'd be sending 2,3, maybe 4 
amps to the 1270 Ahr Battery which at times was already floating.  This 
system is also fed with about 2800 watts of PV, ala FM80 CC.



    This must not have hurt the battery too much as they are 17 
years old and still pretty happy.  However, L-ion is not going to be 
happy with this configuration and would require some way to provide a 
perfect match of hydro output to dump load when it reaches its full 
charge to insure its not over-charged (AKA destroyed). Will a Classic 
deal with this?  Other ideas?  Experience is golden.


Bill


Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, Owner
4291 Nelson St.
Taylorsville, CA 95983
530.284.7849
CA Lic 874049
www.frenergy.net


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Micro-hydro with L-ion

[Bruce Bosworth]

Unsubscribe 

Bruce Bosworth
San Diego Solar Install 619-600-8087.Your Friends in solar energy
 www.sandiegosolarinstall.com
(C-46 Solar Contractor) 


> On Sep 12, 2020, at 9:44 AM, frenergy  wrote:
> 
> Dearest off-gridders,
>  OK, many of you micro-hydro fanatics on the west coast are stuck 
> inside with all the smoke, time to put on your tin foil thinking caps
> 
> I brought this up some time back but got little (zero maybe) 
> feedback.  I'm hoping there are some other micro-hydro folks out there that 
> have figured out how to marry a Harris pelton, to a L-ion battery for 
> charging.  Outputs vary with rainfall/snow-melt from 3 amps to 28 amps (24V). 
>  Over the years with LA batteries, I've simply used a Trace C40 PWM CC 
> between the battery and mondo load resistors (two configurations due to 
> varying hydro output).  Of course sometimes the output and resistor load did 
> not match and I'd be sending 2,3, maybe 4 amps to the 1270 Ahr Battery which 
> at times was already floating.  This system is also fed with about 2800 watts 
> of PV, ala FM80 CC.
> 
> 
> This must not have hurt the battery too much as they are 17 years 
> old and still pretty happy.  However, L-ion is not going to be happy with 
> this configuration and would require some way to provide a perfect match of 
> hydro output to dump load when it reaches its full charge to insure its not 
> over-charged (AKA destroyed). Will a Classic deal with this?  Other ideas?  
> Experience is golden.
> 
> Bill
> 
> 
> Feather River Solar Electric
> Bill Battagin, Owner
> 4291 Nelson St.
> Taylorsville, CA 95983
> 530.284.7849
> CA Lic 874049
> www.frenergy.net
> 
> 
> -- 
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> 
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Micro-hydro with L-ion

[Jay]

Hi Bill,

My preference is with using an aux relay off of a classic, I don’t use a C40.

In using different equipment C40 and PV CC they will never be the same reading 
and kinda fight with each other. Using a classic it diverts based on  
hysteresis setpoints off of charge settings.  And you can get the diversion 
controller trying to dump PV if they get off settings or timing from EQ h 
other. 

And then you have the issue of which lithium battery. Some have no variation 
between charge voltage ( hard)and max shut down voltage, others have a few 
volts (easy).

But yes it’s harder than flooded, but kinda like using VRLA batteries. 

The OB fm60/80 the aux isn’t temp comp’d but not an issue with lithium. 
The classic has 2 aux so you can do one normally and one as the failsafe/ 
redundant which you need anyway. 

You can also do a diversion based on % or volts,  and if it’s behind diodes 
then it wont see the batteries. Giving you a closer voltage control. Again no 
c40 in my view. 


Hope that helps

Jay







> On Sep 12, 2020, at 9:44 AM, frenergy  wrote:
> 
> Dearest off-gridders,
>  OK, many of you micro-hydro fanatics on the west coast are stuck 
> inside with all the smoke, time to put on your tin foil thinking caps
> 
> I brought this up some time back but got little (zero maybe) 
> feedback.  I'm hoping there are some other micro-hydro folks out there that 
> have figured out how to marry a Harris pelton, to a L-ion battery for 
> charging.  Outputs vary with rainfall/snow-melt from 3 amps to 28 amps (24V). 
>  Over the years with LA batteries, I've simply used a Trace C40 PWM CC 
> between the battery and mondo load resistors (two configurations due to 
> varying hydro output).  Of course sometimes the output and resistor load did 
> not match and I'd be sending 2,3, maybe 4 amps to the 1270 Ahr Battery which 
> at times was already floating.  This system is also fed with about 2800 watts 
> of PV, ala FM80 CC.
> 
> 
> This must not have hurt the battery too much as they are 17 years 
> old and still pretty happy.  However, L-ion is not going to be happy with 
> this configuration and would require some way to provide a perfect match of 
> hydro output to dump load when it reaches its full charge to insure its not 
> over-charged (AKA destroyed). Will a Classic deal with this?  Other ideas?  
> Experience is golden.
> 
> Bill
> 
> 
> Feather River Solar Electric
> Bill Battagin, Owner
> 4291 Nelson St.
> Taylorsville, CA 95983
> 530.284.7849
> CA Lic 874049
> www.frenergy.net
> 
> 
> -- 
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> 
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Pika Support by chance?

[Jason Szumlanski]

54kWh doesn't go far for air conditioning in September in Southwest
Florida. Trust me. Most homes have $200+ electric bills at $0.10/kWh this
time of year, sometimes substantially more.

Generator backup, even with 4 Powerwalls, is necessary for mission-critical
grid-tied backup situations. Sadly, you can't charge Powerwalls with a
generator. You just bypass battery storage and run loads straight off the
generator, which means the generator needs to be sized for the whole home.
It would be nice to have a generator input for supplemental charging at
least with a small portable unit.

There is no perfect solution for this application. At least no
cost-effective solution.


On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 6:06 PM August Goers  wrote:

> Hi Bill -
>
> I completely agree with your statement about all off-grid applications.
> Most if not all need generators. And, I do think there are some grid tied
> applications where generators make sense too, especially for folks who live
> way out in the woods as you mention. I was speaking about the mass market
> in CA in cities or towns where the grid is typically fairly reliable. If
> you install four Powerwalls, for example, you have up to 54 kWh of storage
> available. There are applications where generators make sense, and all
> these fires and smoke and heat waves prove the point. I think AC is
> critical for some parts of the country, and energy storage + PV alone just
> won't cut it for those critical applications.
>
> But, yes, good point.
>
> August
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 2:33 PM frenergy  wrote:
>
>> August,
>>
>> Quite frankly and with due respect about the comment about
>> more PV and battery to forego the need for a generator, I disagree. Those
>> folks living off-grid in the sticks (um,er, myself included), it would be a
>> very bad thing not to have Gen input.  The current situation here in Plumas
>> county  (and many other counties right now) is another perfect example.  It
>> is so smokey that my daily KWhrs has been cut in half and of course every
>> other off-grid home is having the same issue. This has been going on for
>> almost a month with only occasional breaks.  There are also CC failures,
>> FET board craps out, other excrement occurs.
>>
>> We all know there are many critical needs for power
>> especially to run a pump for fire protection, frig for food, communication
>> to know what the hell may coming your way during some event (fire, flood,
>> bad weather) medical needs, etc.  In the winter there are at least a few
>> times when there is little or no sun for 1 maybe 2 weeks...that gets to be
>> a spendy array and battery.  Certainly, the idea of going that route works
>> for some scenarios but not off-grid.  Generators are still a much needed
>> necessary evil.  Maybe its a big deal to incorporate that feature in an
>> inverter??  Sounds like bean counting.
>>
>> My $.02 worth
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> Feather River Solar Electric
>> Bill Battagin, Owner
>> 4291 Nelson St.
>> Taylorsville, CA 95983
>> 530.284.7849
>> CA Lic 874049www.frenergy.net 
>> 
>>
>> On 9/11/2020 1:01 PM, August Goers wrote:
>>
>> In CA the market for ESS is primarily grid tied support features driven
>> by SGIP + backup (public safety power shutoffs, folks who live in less
>> stable grid areas, folks worried about natural disasters) so the ESS is
>> designed to replace generators. This might be a little trickier for areas
>> that need air conditioning during a grid outage (or for all electric
>> homes), but one tactic is just to go bigger with the ESS and PV system. I
>> guess what I'm saying is that the value proposition might already be
>> getting better just to skip the generator and go bigger with the storage.
>> Even Generac might be going that route.
>>
>> August
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 11:52 AM Jason Szumlanski <
>> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>>
>>> We are seeing tons of companies in Florida offering Generac/Pika now.
>>> They didn't do it when it was Pika, so why would they now that it has an
>>> orange label? Crazy.
>>>
>>> No generator input makes zero sense and even less sense for a generator
>>> manufacturer.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 12:58 PM Chris Schaefer <
>>> ch...@solarandwindfx.com> wrote:
>>>
 Jeremy,
 Pika was bought out by Generac and rebranded as their PWR cell. Most of
 the old crew from Pika are now working for Generac. It's beyond me that
 Generac bought them and yet they still don't have a generator input. That's
 why I could never sign on to the Pika product line. Good luck.

 Christopher

 On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 11:00 AM Jeremy Rodriguez <
 allsolarjer...@msn.com> wrote:

> If anyone has any info on how to get a hold of The former PIKA ENERGY
> support group, please contact me o

Re: [RE-wrenches] Getting Enphase IQ Cable into J Boxes

[Jason Szumlanski]

Bryan,

I'm happy to see you have these. But the Heyco catalog doesn't show a -SM
for the 1/2" part. They only show a 1/2" for a single tray cable with no
bare, the M3231GCZ that is on your website. Are you saying there is another
one not listed in the catalog that does have a bare and is skinned over?

https://heyco-products.com/media/pdf/ec/35/10/LTC-Enphase-Q-and-Helios-UVX-ClipecNgmD5A3WCBf.pdf


If you bring in the M3234GDA-SM, I'm a buyer. I prefer this one to reduce
stock parts since it's good for one or two cable entries and one or zero
bare wires.

I had been using the Arlington NMUF50 for single Q Cable entry and a
similar gland for bare wire. This one part from Heyco simplifies everything.

Jason



On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 3:48 PM Bryan Norkunas  wrote:

> M3231GCZ-SM is the part number for the ½” version,
>
> Though the ½” version only accepting a single 12/2 tray cable with bare
> ground.
>
>
>
> We see a bigger demand for the ½ vs the ¾”
>
>
>
>
>
> *Bryan Norkunas*
>
> br...@pv-cables.com
>
>
>
> [image: Description: Description: PV-Cables_Logo_Transparent_Bkgnd_140x140]
>
> *PV-Cables Inc. *
>
> *989 Milton Ave Ste 1D*
>
> *Ferndale CA 95536*
>
> (707) 923-3000 office
>
> www.pv-cables.com
> 
>
>
>
>  [image: Description: Description: cid:image002.jpg@01CD22E8.974B6470] Please
> print only if necessary.
>
>
>
> NOTE: This email message and any attachments are for the sole use of the
> intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged
> information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is
> prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the
> sender by replying to this email, and destroy all copies of the original
> message.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Jason Szumlanski
> *Sent:* Friday, September 11, 2020 12:16 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Getting Enphase IQ Cable into J Boxes
>
>
>
> Just a quick tip for those of you installing Enphase. I recently
> discovered there is a Heyco connector for TWO Enphase IQ cables and a bare
> ground in a single 3/4" knockout. This has saved us a bunch of time. The
> rubber gland is prepunched, but you can also use it for a single IQ cable
> since it is not punched all the way through.
>
>
>
> Part number is M3234GDA-SM, available through Mouser, Rexel, anyone who
> sells Heyco I would imagine.
>
>
>
> [image: image.png]
>
>
>
>
>
> Jason Szumlanski
>
> Florida Solar Design Group
>
>
>
> [image: Image removed by sender.]
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Pika Support by chance?

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

I have 5 clients in Florida running mini-split heat pumps offgrid. The
smallest is a 13 kwh useable and the rest running L16 2v cells @ 48v
nominal. Not trying to be a contrarian but with a 2,000 square foot house
with great insulation and SEER numbers around 30, it is not that hard. Need
alot of solar, and virtual tracking for the afternoon thunderstorms in the
south also.  

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines
don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [1]
e-mail offgridso...@sti.net
[2]
text 209 813 0060

On Sat, 12 Sep 2020 12:54:39 -0400, Jason Szumlanski
wrote:  54kWh doesn't go far for air conditioning in September in
Southwest Florida. Trust me. Most homes have $200+ electric bills at
$0.10/kWh this time of year, sometimes substantially more.   Generator
backup, even with 4 Powerwalls, is necessary for mission-critical grid-tied
backup situations. Sadly, you can't charge Powerwalls with a generator. You
just bypass battery storage and run loads straight off the generator, which
means the generator needs to be sized for the whole home. It would be nice
to have a generator input for supplemental charging at least with a small
portable unit.   There is no perfect solution for this application. At
least no cost-effective solution.
  On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 6:06 PM
August Goers  wrote:  Hi Bill -   I completely agree with your statement
about all off-grid applications. Most if not all need generators. And, I do
think there are some grid tied applications where generators make sense
too, especially for folks who live way out in the woods as you mention. I
was speaking about the mass market in CA in cities or towns where the grid
is typically fairly reliable. If you install four Powerwalls, for example,
you have up to 54 kWh of storage available. There are applications where
generators make sense, and all these fires and smoke and heat waves prove
the point. I think AC is critical for some parts of the country, and energy
storage + PV alone just won't cut it for those critical applications.  
But, yes, good point.   August  

  On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 2:33 PM
frenergy  wrote:   

August, 

 Quite frankly and with due respect about
the comment about more PV and battery to forego the need for a generator, I
disagree. Those folks living off-grid in the sticks (um,er, myself
included), it would be a very bad thing not to have Gen input. The current
situation here in Plumas county (and many other counties right now) is
another perfect example. It is so smokey that my daily KWhrs has been cut
in half and of course every other off-grid home is having the same issue.
This has been going on for almost a month with only occasional breaks.
There are also CC failures, FET board craps out, other excrement occurs. 


We all know there are many critical needs for power especially to run a
pump for fire protection, frig for food, communication to know what the
hell may coming your way during some event (fire, flood, bad weather)
medical needs, etc. In the winter there are at least a few times when there
is little or no sun for 1 maybe 2 weeks...that gets to be a spendy array
and battery. Certainly, the idea of going that route works for some
scenarios but not off-grid. Generators are still a much needed necessary
evil. Maybe its a big deal to incorporate that feature in an inverter??
Sounds like bean counting. 

My $.02 worth 

Bill 
Feather River Solar
Electric 
Bill Battagin, Owner
4291 Nelson St.
Taylorsville, CA
95983
530.284.7849
CA Lic 874049
www.frenergy.net [5]
 On 9/11/2020 1:01
PM, August Goers wrote:  In CA the market for ESS is primarily grid tied
support features driven by SGIP + backup (public safety power shutoffs,
folks who live in less stable grid areas, folks worried about natural
disasters) so the ESS is designed to replace generators. This might be a
little trickier for areas that need air conditioning during a grid outage
(or for all electric homes), but one tactic is just to go bigger with the
ESS and PV system. I guess what I'm saying is that the value proposition
might already be getting better just to skip the generator and go bigger
with the storage. Even Generac might be going that route.   August

  On
Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 11:52 AM Jason Szumlanski  wrote:We are seeing
tons of companies in Florida offering Generac/Pika now. They didn't do it
when it was Pika, so why would they now that it has an orange label? Crazy.
  No generator input makes zero sense and even less sense for a generator
manufacturer.

  On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 12:58 PM Chris
Schaefer  wrote:  Jeremy, Pika was bought out by Generac and rebranded as
their PWR cell. Most of the old crew from Pika are now working for Generac.
It's beyond me that Generac bought them and yet they still don't have a
generator input. That's why I could never sign on to the Pika product line.
Good luck.   Christopher  
  On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 11:00 AM Jeremy
Rodriguez  wrote:  If anyone has any info on

Re: [RE-wrenches] Micro-hydro with L-ion

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

Adding to Jay, you really need to charge lithium based on Soc. Just not
reliable in wind and water because of the damage potential to use voltage.
Another way to say it, it is just too easy to use Soc.

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On Sat, 12 Sep 2020 10:24:24 -0700, Jay  wrote:
> Hi Bill,
> 
> My preference is with using an aux relay off of a classic, I don’t use a
> C40.
> 
> In using different equipment C40 and PV CC they will never be the same
> reading and kinda fight with each other. Using a classic it diverts
based
> on  hysteresis setpoints off of charge settings.  And you can get the
> diversion controller trying to dump PV if they get off settings or
timing
> from EQ h other. 
> 
> And then you have the issue of which lithium battery. Some have no
> variation between charge voltage ( hard)and max shut down voltage,
others
> have a few volts (easy).
> 
> But yes it’s harder than flooded, but kinda like using VRLA batteries. 
> 
> The OB fm60/80 the aux isn’t temp comp’d but not an issue with lithium. 
> The classic has 2 aux so you can do one normally and one as the
failsafe/
> redundant which you need anyway. 
> 
> You can also do a diversion based on % or volts,  and if it’s behind
> diodes then it wont see the batteries. Giving you a closer voltage
control.
> Again no c40 in my view. 
> 
> 
> Hope that helps
> 
> Jay
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sep 12, 2020, at 9:44 AM, frenergy  wrote:
>> 
>> Dearest off-gridders,
>>  OK, many of you micro-hydro fanatics on the west coast are
>>  stuck inside with all the smoke, time to put on your tin
>>  foil thinking caps
>> 
>> I brought this up some time back but got little (zero
maybe)
>> feedback.  I'm hoping there are some other micro-hydro
folks
>> out there that have figured out how to marry a Harris
pelton,
>> to a L-ion battery for charging.  Outputs vary with
>> rainfall/snow-melt from 3 amps to 28 amps (24V).  Over the
>> years with LA batteries, I've simply used a Trace C40 PWM
CC
>> between the battery and mondo load resistors (two
>> configurations due to varying hydro output).  Of course
>> sometimes the output and resistor load did not match and
I'd
>> be sending 2,3, maybe 4 amps to the 1270 Ahr Battery which
at
>> times was already floating.  This system is also fed with
>> about 2800 watts of PV, ala FM80 CC.
>> 
>> 
>> This must not have hurt the battery too much as they are 17
>> years old and still pretty happy.  However, L-ion is not
>> going to be happy with this configuration and would require
>> some way to provide a perfect match of hydro output to dump
>> load when it reaches its full charge to insure its not
>> over-charged (AKA destroyed). Will a Classic deal with
this? 
>> Other ideas?  Experience is golden.
>> 
>> Bill
>> 
>> 
>> Feather River Solar Electric
>> Bill Battagin, Owner
>> 4291 Nelson St.
>> Taylorsville, CA 95983
>> 530.284.7849
>> CA Lic 874049
>> www.frenergy.net
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>> 
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>> 
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Pika Support by chance?

[Ray]

What size Air Conditioners? Those seem like really small battery banks 
for that.  I suppose they just run in the day mostly when the sun is 
shinning?


Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 9/12/20 3:25 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar wrote:


I have 5 clients in Florida running mini-split heat pumps offgrid. The 
smallest is a 13 kwh useable and the rest running L16 2v cells @ 48v 
nominal.  Not trying to be a contrarian but with a 2,000 square foot 
house with great insulation and SEER numbers around 30, it is not that 
hard. Need alot of solar, and virtual tracking for the afternoon 
thunderstorms in the south also.


  
*Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" 
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net 
 text 209 813 0060*


On Sat, 12 Sep 2020 12:54:39 -0400, Jason Szumlanski 
 wrote:


54kWh doesn't go far for air conditioning in September in Southwest 
Florida. Trust me. Most homes have $200+ electric bills at $0.10/kWh 
this time of year, sometimes substantially more.
Generator backup, even with 4 Powerwalls, is necessary for 
mission-critical grid-tied backup situations. Sadly, you can't charge 
Powerwalls with a generator. You just bypass battery storage and run 
loads straight off the generator, which means the generator needs to 
be sized for the whole home. It would be nice to have a generator 
input for supplemental charging at least with a small portable unit.
There is no perfect solution for this application. At least no 
cost-effective solution.


On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 6:06 PM August Goers > wrote:


Hi Bill -
I completely agree with your statement about all off-grid
applications. Most if not all need generators. And, I do think
there are some grid tied applications where generators make sense
too, especially for folks who live way out in the woods as you
mention. I was speaking about the mass market in CA in cities or
towns where the grid is typically fairly reliable. If you install
four Powerwalls, for example, you have up to 54 kWh of storage
available. There are applications where generators make sense,
and all these fires and smoke and heat waves prove the point. I
think AC is critical for some parts of the country, and energy
storage + PV alone just won't cut it for those critical applications.
But, yes, good point.
August


On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 2:33 PM frenergy mailto:frene...@psln.com>> wrote:

August,

            Quite frankly and with due respect about the
comment about more PV and battery to forego the need for a
generator, I disagree. Those folks living off-grid in the
sticks (um,er, myself included), it would be a very bad thing
not to have Gen input.  The current situation here in Plumas
county  (and many other counties right now) is another
perfect example.  It is so smokey that my daily KWhrs has
been cut in half and of course every other off-grid home is
having the same issue. This has been going on for almost a
month with only occasional breaks.  There are also CC
failures, FET board craps out, other excrement occurs.

        We all know there are many critical needs for
power especially to run a pump for fire protection, frig for
food, communication to know what the hell may coming your way
during some event (fire, flood, bad weather) medical needs,
etc.  In the winter there are at least a few times when there
is little or no sun for 1 maybe 2 weeks...that gets to be a
spendy array and battery.  Certainly, the idea of going that
route works for some scenarios but not off-grid. Generators
are still a much needed necessary evil.  Maybe its a big deal
to incorporate that feature in an inverter??  Sounds like
bean counting.

My $.02 worth

Bill

Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, Owner
4291 Nelson St.
Taylorsville, CA 95983
530.284.7849
CA Lic 874049
www.frenergy.net  


On 9/11/2020 1:01 PM, August Goers wrote:

In CA the market for ESS is primarily grid tied support
features driven by SGIP + backup (public safety power
shutoffs, folks who live in less stable grid areas, folks
worried about natural disasters) so the ESS is designed to
replace generators. This might be a little trickier for
areas that need air conditioning during a grid outage (or
for all electric homes), but one tactic is just to go bigger
with the ESS and PV system. I guess what I'm saying is that
the value proposition might already be getting bett

Re: [RE-wrenches] Pika Support by chance?

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

Hi Ray, 

They run at night set at 77f. We use a 1 ton, 12,000 btu and a
2nd spare for day use. The spare is rarely needed. These are near 30 SEER,
the most expensive model in each make. LG, Mitsu, Fujitsu. Just after dawn
when the array is lit, we drop the program temp to 74 or so. 

Most HVAC
will tell you this won't work. I have been doing this since 2007 when they
started coming out in the US. They sip power at night like a small child :)
The HVAC people have the mentality that you need to cool a hot house down
in 30 minutes and that is how they size. Offgrid, we never let it get that
hot, as we live there and can leave it on. There is no power bill except
the big one at the beginning! 

There are a few other strategies I use
also. Right now it is full smoke here from the wildfires, the whole 1800
sqft house is using 400 watts and it is 74 in and 86 outside. We often have
100 degree weather and it does use more. In smoke like this, the split
pressurizes the home and aids in keeping smoke outside also. That is a very
nice thing. Some of the folks in the area just got PG ">Dave Angelini
Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines
don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [1]
e-mail offgridso...@sti.net
[2]
text 209 813 0060

On Sat, 12 Sep 2020 15:51:39 -0600, Ray  wrote:   


What size Air Conditioners? Those seem like really small battery banks
for that. I suppose they just run in the day mostly when the sun is
shinning? 
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760
 On 9/12/20 3:25 PM, Dave
Angelini Offgrid Solar wrote:  

I have 5 clients in Florida running
mini-split heat pumps offgrid. The smallest is a 13 kwh useable and the
rest running L16 2v cells @ 48v nominal. Not trying to be a contrarian but
with a 2,000 square foot house with great insulation and SEER numbers
around 30, it is not that hard. Need alot of solar, and virtual tracking
for the afternoon thunderstorms in the south also.  

Dave Angelini Offgrid
Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
[3]
e-mail offgridso...@sti.net [4]
text 209 813 0060

On Sat, 12 Sep 2020
12:54:39 -0400, Jason Szumlanski  [5] wrote:  54kWh doesn't go far for
air conditioning in September in Southwest Florida. Trust me. Most homes
have $200+ electric bills at $0.10/kWh this time of year, sometimes
substantially more.   Generator backup, even with 4 Powerwalls, is
necessary for mission-critical grid-tied backup situations. Sadly, you
can't charge Powerwalls with a generator. You just bypass battery storage
and run loads straight off the generator, which means the generator needs
to be sized for the whole home. It would be nice to have a generator input
for supplemental charging at least with a small portable unit.   There is
no perfect solution for this application. At least no cost-effective
solution.
  On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 6:06 PM August Goers  wrote:  Hi
Bill -   I completely agree with your statement about all off-grid
applications. Most if not all need generators. And, I do think there are
some grid tied applications where generators make sense too, especially for
folks who live way out in the woods as you mention. I was speaking about
the mass market in CA in cities or towns where the grid is typically fairly
reliable. If you install four Powerwalls, for example, you have up to 54
kWh of storage available. There are applications where generators make
sense, and all these fires and smoke and heat waves prove the point. I
think AC is critical for some parts of the country, and energy storage + PV
alone just won't cut it for those critical applications.   But, yes, good
point.   August  

  On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 2:33 PM frenergy  wrote:  


August, 

 Quite frankly and with due respect about the comment about
more PV and battery to forego the need for a generator, I disagree. Those
folks living off-grid in the sticks (um,er, myself included), it would be a
very bad thing not to have Gen input. The current situation here in Plumas
county (and many other counties right now) is another perfect example. It
is so smokey that my daily KWhrs has been cut in half and of course every
other off-grid home is having the same issue. This has been going on for
almost a month with only occasional breaks. There are also CC failures, FET
board craps out, other excrement occurs. 

 We all know there are many
critical needs for power especially to run a pump for fire protection, frig
for food, communication to know what the hell may coming your way during
some event (fire, flood, bad weather) medical needs, etc. In the winter
there are at least a few times when there is little or no sun for 1 maybe 2
weeks...that gets to be a spendy array and battery. Certainly, the idea of
going that route works for some scenarios but not off-grid. Generators are
still a much needed necessary evil. Maybe its a big deal to incorporate
that feature in an inverter?? Sounds like bean counting. 

My $.02 worth


Bill 
Feather River Solar Electric 
Bill Batt