Re: [RE-wrenches] Flex panels?

[Dana]

No firm idea but the are definitely a Euro module as the whole camper chassis 
is a Euro make..

 

 

 

Dana Orzel  Great Solar Works, Inc. 

C - 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com

Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374

NABCEP # 051112-136 
www.solarwork.com

"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  

P Please consider the environment before printing this email.

 

 

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Alex 
MeVay
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2019 6:44 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Flex panels?

 

Hi Dana,

 

For these types of applications, which make up a lot of our business, we 
typically point customers to Solbian, who use Sunpower and other cells.  I 
believe our more budget-minded customers have also been happy with the Renogy 
flex panels.

 

Merlin Solar makes the best interconnect technology I've seen for semi-flexible 
panels: thin grids that cover the cells and keep things working even if the 
cell is shattered.  I believe they do mostly B2B, but I know at least some of 
Solbian's panels incorporate their technology.  

 

If your customer does want to consider some framed glass panels, stick to the 
smaller sizes (100-160W) to reduce issues with frame flex (both the vehicle's 
and the panel's!).  

 

I do share your skepticism about the flex panels...  While I might go flex next 
time for the weight savings, I have 2x 100W glass panels on my camper van, 
installed by the previous owner.  After 7 years and 70,000 miles, many 
off-road, they are doing great.

 

Out of curiosity, do you know what brand your customer's panels were and how 
long before they gave out?

 

Best,




Alex MeVay

Blue Sky Energy * http://www.blueskyenergyinc.com
Genasun * http://www.genasun.com

 

 

On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 6:15 PM Tump mailto:t...@swnl.net> > 
wrote:

Contact  Joe Marieno @Mia Sole 707-331-4030

On Sep 18, 2019, at 12:22 PM, Dana mailto:d...@solarwork.com> > wrote:

 

Hey there All – 

 

I have a new client that has an over the top [$100K+] 4X4 off road camper that 
has glued down flex PV modules that have died, faded PCV front sheets with no 
output.

I suggested a framed module but client in more interested in a flexible type of 
glue down module.

 

Any suggestions on a flexible possibly glue down type of PV module, supplier 
suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

 

 

 

Dana Orzel  Great Solar Works, Inc. 

C - 208.721.7003 
d...@solarwork.com

Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374

NABCEP # 051112-136 
www.solarwork.com

"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  

P Please consider the environment before printing this email.

 

 

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t...@swnl.net www.SWNL.net 
 

Solarwinds Northernlights   

   Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California
 207-832-7574   Cl. 610-517-8401
  

  Blair "TUMP" May

     MAINE'S CHARTER 
  NABCEP"Certified PV Installer" 
   
    MAINE'S CHARTER 
  Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer"

 

 

 

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[RE-wrenches] Solbian's panels ?

[Dana]

Solbians website is In Italy; do they have a North American dealer? I checked 
the web & no contact.

 

 

 

Dana Orzel  Great Solar Works, Inc. 

C - 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com

Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374

NABCEP # 051112-136 
www.solarwork.com

"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  

P Please consider the environment before printing this email.

 

 

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Alex 
MeVay
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2019 6:44 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Flex panels?

 

Hi Dana,

 

For these types of applications, which make up a lot of our business, we 
typically point customers to Solbian, who use Sunpower and other cells.  I 
believe our more budget-minded customers have also been happy with the Renogy 
flex panels.

 

Merlin Solar makes the best interconnect technology I've seen for semi-flexible 
panels: thin grids that cover the cells and keep things working even if the 
cell is shattered.  I believe they do mostly B2B, but I know at least some of 
Solbian's panels incorporate their technology.  

 

If your customer does want to consider some framed glass panels, stick to the 
smaller sizes (100-160W) to reduce issues with frame flex (both the vehicle's 
and the panel's!).  

 

I do share your skepticism about the flex panels...  While I might go flex next 
time for the weight savings, I have 2x 100W glass panels on my camper van, 
installed by the previous owner.  After 7 years and 70,000 miles, many 
off-road, they are doing great.

 

Out of curiosity, do you know what brand your customer's panels were and how 
long before they gave out?

 

Best,




Alex MeVay

Blue Sky Energy * http://www.blueskyenergyinc.com
Genasun * http://www.genasun.com

 

 

On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 6:15 PM Tump mailto:t...@swnl.net> > 
wrote:

Contact  Joe Marieno @Mia Sole 707-331-4030

On Sep 18, 2019, at 12:22 PM, Dana mailto:d...@solarwork.com> > wrote:

 

Hey there All – 

 

I have a new client that has an over the top [$100K+] 4X4 off road camper that 
has glued down flex PV modules that have died, faded PCV front sheets with no 
output.

I suggested a framed module but client in more interested in a flexible type of 
glue down module.

 

Any suggestions on a flexible possibly glue down type of PV module, supplier 
suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

 

 

 

Dana Orzel  Great Solar Works, Inc. 

C - 208.721.7003 
d...@solarwork.com

Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374

NABCEP # 051112-136 
www.solarwork.com

"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  

P Please consider the environment before printing this email.

 

 

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t...@swnl.net www.SWNL.net 
 

Solarwinds Northernlights   

   Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California
 207-832-7574   Cl. 610-517-8401
  

  Blair "TUMP" May

     MAINE'S CHARTER 
  NABCEP"Certified PV Installer" 
   
    MAINE'S CHARTER 
  Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer"

 

 

 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Good Tablets for the Solar Installer

[Martin Herzfeld]

Kelly.

Simply, I use my phone for almost everything which is about the size of a
small piece of toast these days with Samsung DeX for with bluetooth full
size keyboard, mouse and HDMI display on my desk.

I am able with DeX to edit a annotate pdfs, presentations, Word, Excel,
micro and dc converter equipment configuration, FLIR attachment for third
party inspections, irradiance, quick augmented reality survey, online
meeting, email and other things.  I have a Suface as secondary,  I  do
most everything
needed and a lot less as well.

All the best,

Martin Herzfeld, Interstate Renewable Energy Council (IREC) Certified
Master Trainer ™ for Photovoltaics (PV) Installation Professional #IREC
10037
California Solar & Electrical Contractor License  #00833782  C46, C10, D56,
D31, C-7
Solar, Electrical, Trenching, Pole Installation & Maintenance,
Instrumentation

Contract Solar (PV) Technical Inspector - 3rd Party Inspections
Underwriters Laboratories (UL) Certified PV Installer #17, OSHA 30
OSHA-Authorized Construction Trainer #32-0105338
CompTIA Certified Technical Classroom Trainer (CTT+) #T3NSZCNBBKB4QTQG

* Professional Member, International Association of Electrical Inspectors
#7035507
* Registered North American Board of Certified Energy Practitioners
(NABCEP) Continuing Education (CE) Provider

On Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 1:08 PM Jerry Shafer  wrote:

> Kelly
> By the time you buy all the extras vs a basic laptop fewer items to carry
> and loose.
> I do programming in Hawaii and California and my Dell still can do e
> everything needed and a lot less money but that's just me "KISS"
>
> On Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 1:02 PM James Rudolph 
> wrote:
>
>> We are transitioning from Dell laptops to Surface Pro's with cell
>> service.
>> The flexibility of these units in the field seems to be unrivaled.
>>
>>
>>
>> *James B. Rudolph*
>>
>> *Hawai'i Unified*
>>
>> *Director of  Energy*
>>
>> *ES Electrician # 10816*
>>
>> *NABCEP Certified PV Installer # 091209-155*
>>
>> *808.594.9969*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 9:14 AM Kelly Larson 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Esteemed wrenches,
>>>
>>> I am looking to buy a PC tablet/laptop for testing in the field.  I will
>>> be using a Solmetric PVA, Seaward 210 and Survey, excel spreadsheet,
>>> internet, and email.
>>>
>>> I also would like to be able to read and annotate pdfs.
>>>
>>> Suggestions?  What do you use?  What are the advantages and shortcomings
>>> of your device?
>>>
>>> Thank you for your response in advance!
>>>
>>> Kelly
>>>
>>>
>>> ~~~
>>> Kelly Larson
>>> Electrical Engineer
>>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™
>>> NABCEP Certified PV Installer Specialist™
>>> NABCEP Certified PV Commissioning & Maintenance Specialist™
>>> IREC Certified Master Trainer™/ PV
>>> CA Electrical Contractor# 868189
>>> SolarKelly.com
>>>
>>>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Solbian's panels ?

[Alex MeVay]

Hi Dana,

I know Bruce Schwab at OceanPlanet Energy brings them over:

https://oceanplanetenergy.com/solar-power/

I think he might be the master distributor for the US and will likely be
able to give you a trade discount.


Finally, for full disclosure here, we do business with all the companies
I've mentioned in this thread, save Renogy, but we do so because I believe
they offer top-notch products and/or service that help our customers have a
good experience with their systems overall.  Like many of you, we typically
get the call when anything goes wrong in the system, even if it has nothing
to do with the controller (i.e., panels, wiring, fuses), so we have the
same motivation to choose good partners.

Alex MeVay

Blue Sky Energy * http://www.blueskyenergyinc.com
Genasun * http://www.genasun.com


On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 11:14 AM Dana  wrote:

> Solbians website is In Italy; do they have a North American dealer? I
> checked the web & no contact.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dana Orzel  Great Solar Works, Inc.
>
> *C - 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com
> *
>
> Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374
>
> NABCEP # 051112-136   www.solarwork.com
>
> *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  *
>
> *P* Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches  *On
> Behalf Of *Alex MeVay
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 18, 2019 6:44 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches 
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Flex panels?
>
>
>
> Hi Dana,
>
>
>
> For these types of applications, which make up a lot of our business, we
> typically point customers to Solbian, who use Sunpower and other cells.  I
> believe our more budget-minded customers have also been happy with the
> Renogy flex panels.
>
>
>
> Merlin Solar makes the best interconnect technology I've seen for
> semi-flexible panels: thin grids that cover the cells and keep things
> working even if the cell is shattered.  I believe they do mostly B2B, but I
> know at least some of Solbian's panels incorporate their technology.
>
>
>
> If your customer does want to consider some framed glass panels, stick to
> the smaller sizes (100-160W) to reduce issues with frame flex (both the
> vehicle's and the panel's!).
>
>
>
> I do share your skepticism about the flex panels...  While I might go flex
> next time for the weight savings, I have 2x 100W glass panels on my camper
> van, installed by the previous owner.  After 7 years and 70,000 miles, many
> off-road, they are doing great.
>
>
>
> Out of curiosity, do you know what brand your customer's panels were and
> how long before they gave out?
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
> Alex MeVay
>
> Blue Sky Energy * http://www.blueskyenergyinc.com
> Genasun * http://www.genasun.com
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 6:15 PM Tump  wrote:
>
> Contact  Joe Marieno @Mia Sole 707-331-4030
>
> On Sep 18, 2019, at 12:22 PM, Dana  wrote:
>
>
>
> Hey there All –
>
>
>
> I have a new client that has an over the top [$100K+] 4X4 off road camper
> that has glued down flex PV modules that have died, faded PCV front sheets
> with no output.
>
> I suggested a framed module but client in more interested in a flexible
> type of glue down module.
>
>
>
> Any suggestions on a flexible possibly glue down type of PV module,
> supplier suggestions?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dana Orzel  Great Solar Works, Inc.
>
> *C - 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com
> *
>
> Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374
>
> NABCEP # 051112-136   www.solarwork.com
>
> *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  *
>
> *P* Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
> *t...@swnl.net *   *www.SWNL.net
> *
>
> Solarwinds Northernlights
>
> *   Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California*
> * 207-832-7574   Cl.
> 610-517-8401  *
>
>   *Blair "TUMP" May*
>
>
> *     MAINE'S CHARTER  **
> NABCEP"Certified PV Installer"*
>
>
> *   MAINE'S CHARTER   **
> Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer"*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> Change l

Re: [RE-wrenches] connector mismatch

[Ray]

I did some research on the modules we've used over the past 15+ years to 
see if we had potential mismatched connector issues. We've used Amphenol 
H4 connects since the advent of locking solar connectors.  We had 
assumed they were compatible back then.


Solarworld switched from MC4 to H4 somewhere back 2013 to 2015. I didn't 
even notice. SW 280s through SW 300 looks like H4, while SW 270s and 
back to the long, skinny SW 165s are MC 4, but its not that clear, as I 
found a spec sheet for an SW 260 with an H4.


_Conclusion: Basically we can't be sure._

Hanwa Q cell, looks like their 60 cell mods run the MC 4 or MC 4 
compatible (whatever that means) while their 72 cell mods apparently use 
the H4/ UTX


_Conclusion: Total confusion in the field._

Jinko?  They don't even list the connector type on any of the spec 
sheets I have for the past few years.


_Conclusion: No way for a designer/ installer to know beforehand what 
connector to use in the field._


Basically this is a total break down of responsibility for the solar 
industry; a complete lack of standards. Why hasn't an organization like 
NEMA stepped in to standardize the connectors like all AC connectors 
have been, going back for over a century?


I made a very wrong assumption that when our industry adopted the MC 4/ 
H4 locking type connectors that they were standardized and compatible.   
I can only hope that my systems running at relatively low voltage (<150 
vdc) will not have issues.



Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 9/4/19 4:26 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote:
Just to add, l had a lab and l did testing on connectors, we found 
that most of the aec issues were under low light. This appeared to be 
when iradiance was low and once the irads went up the issue was less 
likely, this was because the Male-female contact was not tight enough 
and under lower power it would arc instead of heating up and 
expanding. I used a IR Camera but could see little change due to the 
plastic.
Then l used an IV curve tester and shaded partially shaded the module 
after several repeat testing the connectors got warm. I would suggest 
making your own connector pull out tool to check the contact 
pressures. This is where you may find your problem components. It 
appears that early am testing had lower volts and the inverter pushed 
the current up and causes the loose connector to fail due to the lower 
volts.
This testing was done both in the field 1/2 meg and lab testing 
results were very close.
The modules used for testing were Trina and the field inverters were 
ABB and Fronius

Sorry for the long note
Jerry

On Wed, Sep 4, 2019, 2:52 PM Steven Lawrence > wrote:


Everyone,

Just to add to this, I've seen multiple melted connectors that
couldn't be traced to anything other than mixing manufacturers. 
I've seen some connectors where you can clearly seeing arcing on
the pin itself and nowhere else.  The crimps and the housing were
fine.  I've postulated it had to do with slightly different metals
expanding/contracting at different rates.  I've made it a very
hard rule at my company to never mix manufacturers of connectors. 
When we order modules, we specifically have the PO call out the
manufacturer of the connector (can't just be "MC4 compatible"). 
Typically we order that same brand of connectors, but sometimes we
end up getting 6" jumpers made by a harness company (there are
some connectors out there that can only work with #12 wire. Can't
use them on #10 homeruns).  It's drastically cut down on the
number of melted connectors.  We've averaged maybe 1 or 2 on 6MW
projects over a year with this hard requirement versus 100+ we had
on a 1MW rooftop project that mixed multiple manufacturers.

Steven Lawrence
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Re: [RE-wrenches] connector mismatch

[Bryan Norkunas]

Also note the Intertek testing, I have seen many of these in the past – 

but never one of them tested with 12AWG or 10AWG connectors, it has always been 
14AWG for some reason.

 

And as a company that specializes in this niche, I can say in the last 10 years 
we have never had the request to manufacture anything smaller than 12AWG when 
it came to PV Connectors.

 

Bryan Norkunas

br...@pv-cables.com

 

Description: Description: PV-Cables_Logo_Transparent_Bkgnd_140x140

PV-Cables Inc.

1155 Redway Drive

PO Box 2562

Redway, CA 95560

(707) 923-3000 office

www.pv-cables.com  

 

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Bryan Norkunas
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2019 12:57 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] connector mDescription: Description: 
cid:image002.jpg@01CD22E8.974B6470ismatch

 

Ray,

 

Solarworld went from using MC4 connectors, then to Kostal KSK4 connectors, then 
Amphenol H4, and finally Amphenol UTX connectors.

 

The cross mating with the KSK4 connectors had the most issues and we assembled 
a lot of adapters for end users and installers.  

 

Back in 2016, we were talking with Solarworld about the Amphenol UTX/H4 to MC4 
connections failing.  (I attached the Compatibility letter that Solarworld was 
providing their customers, as well as the Amphenol Compatibility documents )  

 

Back then, I was mating connectors and grinding away the plastic housings to 
determine the terminal overlap of cross mated connectors.

Here are my notes from back then:

The overlap on an MC4 to MC4 connection = 0.305”

The overlap on an MC4 to UTX connection = 0.265”

A lot of the older H4 to MC4 issues were end users not fully seating MC4 female 
to the H4 male.  It takes some force to get them to fit completely and a 
nightmare to disconnect if needed.

These tended to fail in higher heat or higher humidity environments.  The 
picture below is one that wasn’t fully seated.

cid:image003.jpg@01D18A5E.48835320

 

 

Hanwa Q Cell have used many different connectors on their modules over the 
years.  

 

Jinko modules usually have Jinko connectors in my small amount of experience 
with them.  Jinko still does not offer a crimping tool for their connectors, 
that I know of and still only UL for 20A.  We do little work with these 
connectors, so my input here might be outdated.

 

Lastly, I have seen a few larger distributing customers of ours doing good work 
on obtaining the connector/module info from module manufactures, prior to 
placing their blanket orders.  In turn, the module mfg.’s are typically 
supplying them (or sometimes us) connectors for homerun cables, adapters, etc.  
  And finally the end customer is knowing what connectors on the modules they 
are purchasing, with the availability of getting the correct connectors/homerun 
cables needed to complete the install.

 

 

Bryan Norkunas

br...@pv-cables.com

 

Description: Description: PV-Cables_Logo_Transparent_Bkgnd_140x140

PV-Cables Inc.

1155 Redway Drive

PO Box 2562

Redway, CA 95560

(707) 923-3000 office

www.pv-cables.com  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Ray
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2019 12:08 PM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] connector mismatch

 

I did some research on the modules we've used over the past 15+ years to see if 
we had potential mismatched connector issues. We've used Amphenol H4 connects 
since the advent of locking solar connectors.  We had assumed they were 
compatible back then.

Solarworld switched from MC4 to H4 somewhere back 2013 to 2015. I didn't even 
notice. SW 280s through SW 300 looks like H4, while SW 270s and back to the 
long, skinny SW 165s are MC 4, but its not that clear, as I found a spec sheet 
for an SW 260 with an H4.  

Conclusion: Basically we can't be sure.

Hanwa Q cell, looks like their 60 cell mods run the MC 4 or MC 4 compatible 
(whatever that means) while their 72 cell mods apparently use the H4/ UTX  

Conclusion: Total confusion in the field.

Jinko?  They don't even list the connector type on any of the spec sheets I 
have for the past few years.

Conclusion: No way for a designer/ installer to know beforehand what connector 
to use in the field.

Basically this is a total break down of responsibility for the solar industry; 
a complete lack of standards. Why hasn't an organization like NEMA stepped in 
to standardize the connectors like all AC connectors have been, going back for 
over a century?  

I made a very wrong assumption that when our industry adopted the MC 4/ H4 
locking type connectors that they were standardized and compatible.   I can 
only hope that my systems running at relatively low voltage (<150 vdc) will not 
have issues.   

 

Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 9/4/19 4:26 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote:

Just to add, l had a

Re: [RE-wrenches] connector mismatch

[Brian Mehalic]

You say you've seen many of these tests in the past; do you specifically
mean the intermatability test?

Thanks for the info! (And you also really helped me out identifying some
connectors on a problem-job a couple months back...thanks again!).

Brian Mehalic
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional™ R031508-59
National Electrical Code® CMP-4 Member
(520) 204-6639

Solar Energy International
http://www.solarenergy.org

SEI Professional Services
http://www.seisolarpros.com



On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 1:07 PM Bryan Norkunas  wrote:

> Also note the Intertek testing, I have seen many of these in the past –
>
> but never one of them tested with 12AWG or 10AWG connectors, it has always
> been 14AWG for some reason.
>
>
>
> And as a company that specializes in this niche, I can say in the last 10
> years we have never had the request to manufacture anything smaller than
> 12AWG when it came to PV Connectors.
>
>
>
> *Bryan Norkunas*
>
> br...@pv-cables.com
>
>
>
> [image: Description: Description: PV-Cables_Logo_Transparent_Bkgnd_140x140]
>
> *PV-Cables Inc.*
>
> 1155 Redway Drive
>
> PO Box 2562
>
> Redway, CA 95560
>
> (707) 923-3000 office
>
> www.pv-cables.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Bryan Norkunas
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 19, 2019 12:57 PM
> *To:* 'RE-wrenches'
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] connector m[image: Description: Description:
> cid:image002.jpg@01CD22E8.974B6470]ismatch
>
>
>
> Ray,
>
>
>
> Solarworld went from using MC4 connectors, then to Kostal KSK4 connectors,
> then Amphenol H4, and finally Amphenol UTX connectors.
>
>
>
> The cross mating with the KSK4 connectors had the most issues and we
> assembled a lot of adapters for end users and installers.
>
>
>
> Back in 2016, we were talking with Solarworld about the Amphenol UTX/H4 to
> MC4 connections failing.  (I attached the Compatibility letter that
> Solarworld was providing their customers, as well as the Amphenol
> Compatibility documents )
>
>
>
> Back then, I was mating connectors and grinding away the plastic housings
> to determine the terminal overlap of cross mated connectors.
>
> Here are my notes from back then:
>
> The overlap on an MC4 to MC4 connection = 0.305”
>
> The overlap on an MC4 to UTX connection = 0.265”
>
> A lot of the older H4 to MC4 issues were end users not fully seating MC4
> female to the H4 male.  It takes some force to get them to fit completely
> and a nightmare to disconnect if needed.
>
> These tended to fail in higher heat or higher humidity environments.  The
> picture below is one that wasn’t fully seated.
>
> [image: cid:image003.jpg@01D18A5E.48835320]
>
>
>
>
>
> Hanwa Q Cell have used many different connectors on their modules over the
> years.
>
>
>
> Jinko modules usually have Jinko connectors in my small amount of
> experience with them.  Jinko still does not offer a crimping tool for their
> connectors, that I know of and still only UL for 20A.  We do little work
> with these connectors, so my input here might be outdated.
>
>
>
> Lastly, I have seen a few larger distributing customers of ours doing good
> work on obtaining the connector/module info from module manufactures, prior
> to placing their blanket orders.  In turn, the module mfg.’s are typically
> supplying them (or sometimes us) connectors for homerun cables, adapters,
> etc.And finally the end customer is knowing what connectors on the
> modules they are purchasing, with the availability of getting the correct
> connectors/homerun cables needed to complete the install.
>
>
>
>
>
> *Bryan Norkunas*
>
> br...@pv-cables.com
>
>
>
> [image: Description: Description: PV-Cables_Logo_Transparent_Bkgnd_140x140]
>
> *PV-Cables Inc.*
>
> 1155 Redway Drive
>
> PO Box 2562
>
> Redway, CA 95560
>
> (707) 923-3000 office
>
> www.pv-cables.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
> ] *On Behalf Of *Ray
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 19, 2019 12:08 PM
> *To:* re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] connector mismatch
>
>
>
> I did some research on the modules we've used over the past 15+ years to
> see if we had potential mismatched connector issues. We've used Amphenol H4
> connects since the advent of locking solar connectors.  We had assumed they
> were compatible back then.
>
> Solarworld switched from MC4 to H4 somewhere back 2013 to 2015. I didn't
> even notice. SW 280s through SW 300 looks like H4, while SW 270s and back
> to the long, skinny SW 165s are MC 4, but its not that clear, as I found a
> spec sheet for an SW 260 with an H4.
>
> *Conclusion: Basically we can't be sure.*
>
> Hanwa Q cell, looks like their 60 cell mods run the MC 4 or MC 4
> compatible (whatever that means) while their 72 cell mods apparently use
> the H4/ UTX
>
> *Conclusion: Total confusion in the field.*
>
> Jinko?  They don't even list the connector type on any of the spec shee

Re: [RE-wrenches] connector mismatch

[Bryan Norkunas]

Yes, I have seen and have copies of many of these 3rd party “compatibility” 
tests.

 

From: Brian Mehalic [mailto:br...@solarenergy.org] 
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2019 1:16 PM
To: Bryan Norkunas
Cc: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] connector mismatch

 

You say you've seen many of these tests in the past; do you specifically mean 
the intermatability test?

 

Thanks for the info! (And you also really helped me out identifying some 
connectors on a problem-job a couple months back...thanks again!).


 

Brian Mehalic 
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional™ R031508-59

National Electrical Code® CMP-4 Member

(520) 204-6639

 

Solar Energy International
http://www.solarenergy.org

 

SEI Professional Services

  http://www.seisolarpros.com

 

 

 

On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 1:07 PM Bryan Norkunas  wrote:

Also note the Intertek testing, I have seen many of these in the past – 

but never one of them tested with 12AWG or 10AWG connectors, it has always been 
14AWG for some reason.

 

And as a company that specializes in this niche, I can say in the last 10 years 
we have never had the request to manufacture anything smaller than 12AWG when 
it came to PV Connectors.

 

Bryan Norkunas

br...@pv-cables.com

 

Description: Description: PV-Cables_Logo_Transparent_Bkgnd_140x140

PV-Cables Inc.

1155 Redway Drive

PO Box 2562

Redway, CA 95560

(707) 923-3000 office

www.pv-cables.com  

 

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Bryan Norkunas
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2019 12:57 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] connector mDescription: Description: 
cid:image002.jpg@01CD22E8.974B6470ismatch

 

Ray,

 

Solarworld went from using MC4 connectors, then to Kostal KSK4 connectors, then 
Amphenol H4, and finally Amphenol UTX connectors.

 

The cross mating with the KSK4 connectors had the most issues and we assembled 
a lot of adapters for end users and installers.  

 

Back in 2016, we were talking with Solarworld about the Amphenol UTX/H4 to MC4 
connections failing.  (I attached the Compatibility letter that Solarworld was 
providing their customers, as well as the Amphenol Compatibility documents )  

 

Back then, I was mating connectors and grinding away the plastic housings to 
determine the terminal overlap of cross mated connectors.

Here are my notes from back then:

The overlap on an MC4 to MC4 connection = 0.305”

The overlap on an MC4 to UTX connection = 0.265”

A lot of the older H4 to MC4 issues were end users not fully seating MC4 female 
to the H4 male.  It takes some force to get them to fit completely and a 
nightmare to disconnect if needed.

These tended to fail in higher heat or higher humidity environments.  The 
picture below is one that wasn’t fully seated.

cid:image003.jpg@01D18A5E.48835320

 

 

Hanwa Q Cell have used many different connectors on their modules over the 
years.  

 

Jinko modules usually have Jinko connectors in my small amount of experience 
with them.  Jinko still does not offer a crimping tool for their connectors, 
that I know of and still only UL for 20A.  We do little work with these 
connectors, so my input here might be outdated.

 

Lastly, I have seen a few larger distributing customers of ours doing good work 
on obtaining the connector/module info from module manufactures, prior to 
placing their blanket orders.  In turn, the module mfg.’s are typically 
supplying them (or sometimes us) connectors for homerun cables, adapters, etc.  
  And finally the end customer is knowing what connectors on the modules they 
are purchasing, with the availability of getting the correct connectors/homerun 
cables needed to complete the install.

 

 

Bryan Norkunas

br...@pv-cables.com

 

Description: Description: PV-Cables_Logo_Transparent_Bkgnd_140x140

PV-Cables Inc.

1155 Redway Drive

PO Box 2562

Redway, CA 95560

(707) 923-3000 office

www.pv-cables.com  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Ray
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2019 12:08 PM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] connector mismatch

 

I did some research on the modules we've used over the past 15+ years to see if 
we had potential mismatched connector issues. We've used Amphenol H4 connects 
since the advent of locking solar connectors.  We had assumed they were 
compatible back then.

Solarworld switched from MC4 to H4 somewhere back 2013 to 2015. I didn't even 
notice. SW 280s through SW 300 looks like H4, while SW 270s and back to the 
long, skinny SW 165s are MC 4, but its not that clear, as I found a spec sheet 
for an SW 260 with an H4.  

Conclusion: Basically we can't be sure.

Hanwa Q cell, looks like their 60 cell mods run the MC 4 or MC 4 compatible 
(whatever that means) while their 72 cell mods apparently use the H4

Re: [RE-wrenches] connector mismatch

[Bradley Bassett]

Someone previously at AEE tried to get NEMA involved in setting a standard,
but it turned out that they were not getting cooperation from the mfg, so
could not proceed.

Brad

On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 1:28 PM Bryan Norkunas  wrote:

> Yes, I have seen and have copies of many of these 3rd party
> “compatibility” tests.
>
>
>
> *From:* Brian Mehalic [mailto:br...@solarenergy.org]
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 19, 2019 1:16 PM
> *To:* Bryan Norkunas
> *Cc:* RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] connector mismatch
>
>
>
> You say you've seen many of these tests in the past; do you specifically
> mean the intermatability test?
>
>
>
> Thanks for the info! (And you also really helped me out identifying some
> connectors on a problem-job a couple months back...thanks again!).
>
>
>
> Brian Mehalic
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional™ R031508-59
>
> National Electrical Code® CMP-4 Member
>
> (520) 204-6639
>
>
>
> Solar Energy International
> http://www.solarenergy.org
>
>
>
> SEI Professional Services
>
> http://www.seisolarpros.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 1:07 PM Bryan Norkunas 
> wrote:
>
> Also note the Intertek testing, I have seen many of these in the past –
>
> but never one of them tested with 12AWG or 10AWG connectors, it has always
> been 14AWG for some reason.
>
>
>
> And as a company that specializes in this niche, I can say in the last 10
> years we have never had the request to manufacture anything smaller than
> 12AWG when it came to PV Connectors.
>
>
>
> *Bryan Norkunas*
>
> br...@pv-cables.com
>
>
>
> [image: Description: Description: PV-Cables_Logo_Transparent_Bkgnd_140x140]
>
> *PV-Cables Inc.*
>
> 1155 Redway Drive
>
> PO Box 2562
>
> Redway, CA 95560
>
> (707) 923-3000 office
>
> www.pv-cables.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Bryan Norkunas
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 19, 2019 12:57 PM
> *To:* 'RE-wrenches'
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] connector m[image: Description: Description:
> cid:image002.jpg@01CD22E8.974B6470]ismatch
>
>
>
> Ray,
>
>
>
> Solarworld went from using MC4 connectors, then to Kostal KSK4 connectors,
> then Amphenol H4, and finally Amphenol UTX connectors.
>
>
>
> The cross mating with the KSK4 connectors had the most issues and we
> assembled a lot of adapters for end users and installers.
>
>
>
> Back in 2016, we were talking with Solarworld about the Amphenol UTX/H4 to
> MC4 connections failing.  (I attached the Compatibility letter that
> Solarworld was providing their customers, as well as the Amphenol
> Compatibility documents )
>
>
>
> Back then, I was mating connectors and grinding away the plastic housings
> to determine the terminal overlap of cross mated connectors.
>
> Here are my notes from back then:
>
> The overlap on an MC4 to MC4 connection = 0.305”
>
> The overlap on an MC4 to UTX connection = 0.265”
>
> A lot of the older H4 to MC4 issues were end users not fully seating MC4
> female to the H4 male.  It takes some force to get them to fit completely
> and a nightmare to disconnect if needed.
>
> These tended to fail in higher heat or higher humidity environments.  The
> picture below is one that wasn’t fully seated.
>
> [image: cid:image003.jpg@01D18A5E.48835320]
>
>
>
>
>
> Hanwa Q Cell have used many different connectors on their modules over the
> years.
>
>
>
> Jinko modules usually have Jinko connectors in my small amount of
> experience with them.  Jinko still does not offer a crimping tool for their
> connectors, that I know of and still only UL for 20A.  We do little work
> with these connectors, so my input here might be outdated.
>
>
>
> Lastly, I have seen a few larger distributing customers of ours doing good
> work on obtaining the connector/module info from module manufactures, prior
> to placing their blanket orders.  In turn, the module mfg.’s are typically
> supplying them (or sometimes us) connectors for homerun cables, adapters,
> etc.And finally the end customer is knowing what connectors on the
> modules they are purchasing, with the availability of getting the correct
> connectors/homerun cables needed to complete the install.
>
>
>
>
>
> *Bryan Norkunas*
>
> br...@pv-cables.com
>
>
>
> [image: Description: Description: PV-Cables_Logo_Transparent_Bkgnd_140x140]
>
> *PV-Cables Inc.*
>
> 1155 Redway Drive
>
> PO Box 2562
>
> Redway, CA 95560
>
> (707) 923-3000 office
>
> www.pv-cables.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
> ] *On Behalf Of *Ray
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 19, 2019 12:08 PM
> *To:* re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] connector mismatch
>
>
>
> I did some research on the modules we've used over the past 15+ years to
> see if we had potential mismatched connector issues. We've used Amphenol H4
> connects since the advent of locking solar connectors.  We had assumed they
> were compatible back then.
>
> 

Re: [RE-wrenches] connector mismatch

[Ray]

In the regulatory vacuum that ensued, we now have dozens of unregulated 
connectors, no way of knowing what might be on past jobs, confused 
installers, nervous customers, while the market they tried to control is 
flooded with "MC 4" crimpers on Amazon for $20.


All of this for the main connector used millions of times in almost ALL 
Solar installations.  I don't blame just the specific manufacturers that 
might have benefited briefly from this lack of standards, but all of us 
for letting this happen literally right in front of our eyes, and to go 
on for over a decade.


The high DC voltages being used by most GT installs these days warrant 
serious improvements in our safety standards process.


Arc fault detectors are not the first line of defense, good connections 
are.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 9/19/19 5:48 PM, Bradley Bassett wrote:
Someone previously at AEE tried to get NEMA involved in setting a 
standard, but it turned out that they were not getting cooperation 
from the mfg, so could not proceed.


Brad

On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 1:28 PM Bryan Norkunas > wrote:


Yes, I have seen and have copies of many of these 3^rd party
“compatibility” tests.

*From:*Brian Mehalic [mailto:br...@solarenergy.org
]
*Sent:* Thursday, September 19, 2019 1:16 PM
*To:* Bryan Norkunas
*Cc:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] connector mismatch

You say you've seen many of these tests in the past; do you
specifically mean the intermatability test?

Thanks for the info! (And you also really helped me out
identifying some connectors on a problem-job a couple months
back...thanks again!).

Brian Mehalic
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional™ R031508-59

National Electrical Code® CMP-4 Member

(520) 204-6639

Solar Energy International
http://www.solarenergy.org

SEI Professional Services

http://www.seisolarpros.com 

On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 1:07 PM Bryan Norkunas
mailto:br...@pv-cables.com>> wrote:

Also note the Intertek testing, I have seen many of these in
the past –

but never one of them tested with 12AWG or 10AWG connectors,
it has always been 14AWG for some reason.

And as a company that specializes in this niche, I can say in
the last 10 years we have never had the request to manufacture
anything smaller than 12AWG when it came to PV Connectors.

*Bryan Norkunas*

br...@pv-cables.com 

Description: Description: PV-Cables_Logo_Transparent_Bkgnd_140x140

*PV-Cables Inc.*

1155 Redway Drive

PO Box 2562

Redway, CA 95560

(707) 923-3000 office

www.pv-cables.com 

*From:*RE-wrenches
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
] *On Behalf
Of *Bryan Norkunas
*Sent:* Thursday, September 19, 2019 12:57 PM
*To:* 'RE-wrenches'
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] connector mDescription:
Description: cid:image002.jpg@01CD22E8.974B6470ismatch

Ray,

Solarworld went from using MC4 connectors, then to Kostal KSK4
connectors, then Amphenol H4, and finally Amphenol UTX connectors.

The cross mating with the KSK4 connectors had the most issues
and we assembled a lot of adapters for end users and installers.

Back in 2016, we were talking with Solarworld about the
Amphenol UTX/H4 to MC4 connections failing.  (I attached the
Compatibility letter that Solarworld was providing their
customers, as well as the Amphenol Compatibility documents )

Back then, I was mating connectors and grinding away the
plastic housings to determine the terminal overlap of cross
mated connectors.

Here are my notes from back then:

The overlap on an MC4 to MC4 connection = 0.305”

The overlap on an MC4 to UTX connection = 0.265”

A lot of the older H4 to MC4 issues were end users not fully
seating MC4 female to the H4 male.  It takes some force to get
them to fit completely and a nightmare to disconnect if needed.

These tended to fail in higher heat or higher humidity
environments.  The picture below is one that wasn’t fully seated.

cid:image003.jpg@01D18A5E.48835320

Hanwa Q Cell have used many different connectors on their
modules over the years.

Jinko modules usually have Jinko connectors in my small amount
of experience with them.  Jinko still does not offer a
crimping tool for their connectors, that I know of and still
only UL for 20A.  We do little work with these connectors, so
my input here might be outdated.