Re: [RE-wrenches] LiFePO4; WAS Availability of Powerwall Batteries

[Starlight Solar Power Systems]

August,

To be sure, there is a fragility in using LFP batteries if the integrator does 
not understand the pitfalls….and there are many. In November a lithium battery 
and solar “dealer” emailed me for help. He had damaged an $8000 battery bank 
and wanted to know how to get it working again. After I told him a few things 
to NOT do, I then offered my expertise for a $250 consulting fee. No response.  
I could tell of other cases where the unlearned have ruined their DIY 
installation or people have bought a LI-ion battery from dealers that won’t 
provide support. The stories are too many. 

I’ve been on the bleeding edge for 2 years now and I’m still discovering 
mistakes I made in the early application of our battery. Fortunately I am able 
to make the changes to hardware and software to keep the battery safe from 
humans. Lead is SO much more forgiving than Li-ion when it is not done right. 

We are up to 4-5 installations per month plus out the door sale of about 5 
systems per month. I receive email inquiries daily about our LFMP batteries. I 
have high hopes for products from the likes of Tesla. As I have said in the 
past, Lithium battery technology IS the future for RE storage…lead, your years 
are numbered. 

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems

On Jan 22, 2016, at 5:35 PM, August Goers  wrote:

Larry,
 
To get back to your previous response to me – I’m fully onboard with the 
benefits of lithium batteries. For now, they seem like the clear successor to 
lead acid technology. However, I’m still concerned about the ability of these 
smaller “integrators” to assemble cells and electronics together and make a 
robust package. There may very well be good ones out there, I just don’t know. 
Tesla’s product is still brand new and who knows how that is going to go.  
 
Best,
 
August
 
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
] On Behalf Of Starlight 
Solar Power Systems
Sent: Friday, January 22, 2016 2:46 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] LiFePO4; WAS Availability of Powerwall Batteries
 
Hi Allan,
 
I would like to challenge the use of the term "locally manufactured". Mccune 
Solar Works does not manufacture lithium batteries. They purchase battery cells 
from China and package other third party components like EMS and relays to make 
a lithium battery  system. Very similar to what we do except our LFMP battery 
package EMS and CPU is designed by the manufacturer exclusively for GBS 
batteries. Perhaps a better term would be LFP battery dealer or integrator.
 
Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems
 
 
On Jan 22, 2016, at 12:30 PM, Allan Sindelar mailto:al...@sindelarsolar.com>> wrote:
 
Wrenches,
A longtime off grid friend of mine, with whom both I and Positive Energy have 
collaborated on difficult installations over the years, just purchased a 24V 
230AH, 120 lb. LiFePO4 (Lithium Iron Phosphate) battery bank that is locally 
manufactured in Albuquerque. It's still too small and too expensive to run his 
entire home, so he has devised a battery switching system and is keeping his 
older FLAs in operation while he tests these and affords more strings. So far 
he's quite pleased with the performance, but there's not yet a track record for 
his set.

So I want to pass on this low-key manufacturer: Chuck McCune, McCune 
Industries, http://www.mccunesolarworks.com , 
(866) 622-8630. I believe that a legal Non-Disclosure Agreement is necessary to 
get the real info.

Contact me off list if you'd like to speak with my friend with the new set. I 
believe that he has set up as a regional dealer. 
Allan

Allan Sindelar
al...@sindelarsolar.com 
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
505 780-2738 cell

 


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[RE-wrenches] SE / tesla availability

[jay]

HI All,

I’m guessing you are being hit with these questions too.

But any time frames for the SE  equipment that’ll be ready to go with Tesla 
batteries?

thanks

jay

peltz power
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Re: [RE-wrenches] LiFePO4; WAS Availability of Powerwall Batteries

[frenergy]

Larry,

Thanks to people like you, we will all benefit from Lithium 
batteries coming online sooner, no doubt at a decreasing cost.  Many of 
us in this field know what its like to pioneer/beta test new products 
but soldier on to move things along to a better future.


Bill

Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, Owner
4291 Nelson St.
Taylorsville, CA 95983
530.284.7849
CA Lic 874049
www.frenergy.net


On 1/23/2016 11:44 AM, Starlight Solar Power Systems wrote:

August,

To be sure, there is a fragility in using LFP batteries if the 
integrator does not understand the pitfalls….and there are many. In 
November a lithium battery and solar “dealer” emailed me for help. He 
had damaged an $8000 battery bank and wanted to know how to get it 
working again. After I told him a few things to NOT do, I then offered 
my expertise for a $250 consulting fee. No response.  I could tell of 
other cases where the unlearned have ruined their DIY installation or 
people have bought a LI-ion battery from dealers that won’t provide 
support. The stories are too many.


I’ve been on the bleeding edge for 2 years now and I’m still 
discovering mistakes I made in the early application of our battery. 
Fortunately I am able to make the changes to hardware and software to 
keep the battery safe from humans. Lead is SO much more forgiving than 
Li-ion when it is not done right.


We are up to 4-5 installations per month plus out the door sale of 
about 5 systems per month. I receive email inquiries daily about our 
LFMP batteries. I have high hopes for products from the likes of 
Tesla. As I have said in the past, Lithium battery technology IS the 
future for RE storage…lead, your years are numbered.


Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems

On Jan 22, 2016, at 5:35 PM, August Goers > wrote:


Larry,

To get back to your previous response to me – I’m fully onboard with 
the benefits of lithium batteries. For now, they seem like the clear 
successor to lead acid technology. However, I’m still concerned about 
the ability of these smaller “integrators” to assemble cells and 
electronics together and make a robust package. There may very well be 
good ones out there, I just don’t know. Tesla’s product is still brand 
new and who knows how that is going to go.


Best,

August

*From:*RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
] *On Behalf Of 
*Starlight Solar Power Systems

*Sent:* Friday, January 22, 2016 2:46 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] LiFePO4; WAS Availability of Powerwall 
Batteries


Hi Allan,

I would like to challenge the use of the term "locally manufactured". 
Mccune Solar Works does not manufacture lithium batteries. They 
purchase battery cells from China and package other third party 
components like EMS and relays to make a lithium battery  system. Very 
similar to what we do except our LFMP battery package EMS and CPU is 
designed by the manufacturer exclusively for GBS batteries. Perhaps a 
better term would be LFP battery dealer or integrator.


Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems


On Jan 22, 2016, at 12:30 PM, Allan Sindelar > wrote:


Wrenches,
A longtime off grid friend of mine, with whom both I and Positive 
Energy have collaborated on difficult installations over the years, 
just purchased a 24V 230AH, 120 lb. LiFePO_4 (Lithium Iron Phosphate) 
battery bank that is locally manufactured in Albuquerque. It's still 
too small and too expensive to run his entire home, so he has devised 
a battery switching system and is keeping his older FLAs in operation 
while he tests these and affords more strings. So far he's quite 
pleased with the performance, but there's not yet a track record for 
his set.


So I want to pass on this low-key manufacturer: Chuck McCune, McCune 
Industries, http://www.mccunesolarworks.com 
, (866) 622-8630. I believe that a 
legal Non-Disclosure Agreement is necessary to get the real info.


Contact me off list if you'd like to speak with my friend with the new 
set. I believe that he has set up as a regional dealer.

Allan

*Allan Sindelar*
al...@sindelarsolar.com 
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2738 cell*






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Re: [RE-wrenches] LiFePO4; WAS Availability of Powerwall Batteries

[Allan Sindelar]

  
  
Larry,
Thank you for correcting my post. As I have not signed an NDA I
didn't know this. The only term I recall hearing was "manufacture".
Allan


  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
Allan Sindelar
  al...@sindelarsolar.com
  NABCEP Certified PV
Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive
  Energy,
  Inc.
505 780-2738 cell


 
  

On 1/22/2016 3:46 PM, Starlight Solar
  Power Systems wrote:


  
  Hi Allan,
  
  
  I would like to challenge the use of the term
"locally manufactured". Mccune Solar Works does not manufacture
lithium batteries. They purchase battery cells from China and
package other third party components like EMS and relays to make
a lithium battery  system. Very similar to what we do except our
LFMP battery package EMS and CPU is designed by the manufacturer
exclusively for GBS batteries. Perhaps a better term would be
LFP battery dealer or integrator.
  
  
  

  

  

  Larry
Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems
  
  
  
  
  

  

  


  On Jan 22, 2016, at 12:30 PM, Allan Sindelar

wrote:
  
  

 Wrenches,
  A longtime off grid friend of mine, with whom both I and
  Positive Energy have collaborated on difficult
  installations over the years, just purchased a 24V 230AH,
  120 lb. LiFePO4 (Lithium Iron
  Phosphate) battery bank that is locally manufactured in
  Albuquerque. It's still too small and too expensive to run
  his entire home, so he has devised a battery switching
  system and is keeping his older FLAs in operation while he
  tests these and affords more strings. So far he's quite
  pleased with the performance, but there's not yet a track
  record for his set.
  
  So I want to pass on this low-key manufacturer: Chuck
  McCune, McCune Industries, http://www.mccunesolarworks.com,
  (866) 622-8630. I believe that a legal Non-Disclosure
  Agreement is necessary to get the real info.
  
  Contact me off list if you'd like to speak with my friend
  with the new set. I believe that he has set up as a
  regional dealer. 
  Allan
  
  











  Allan Sindelar
al...@sindelarsolar.com
NABCEP
  Certified PV Installation Professional
  NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
  New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
  Founder (Retired), Positive

Energy, Inc.
  505 780-2738 cell
  
  
   

  
  
  

  

  
  
  
  
  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Rooftop disconnect for multi tracker TLs

[jay]

Probably 2 of the Sq D 361RB still might be the least expensive.

jay

peltz power
> On Jan 22, 2016, at 8:00 AM, August Goers  wrote:
> 
> Wrenches,
>  
> We have a few jurisdictions in the Bay Area that still require rooftop DC 
> disconnects. We are installing a lot of SMA TL-22 inverters with dual MPPTs 
> and if the system has more than 1 string it has been hard to source a good 
> disconnect option (need 4 poles for switching two ungrounded strings). Does 
> anyone have a good DC disconnect idea for this application?
>  
> Best,
>  
> August
> Luminalt
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[RE-wrenches] LiFePO4; WAS Availability of Powerwall Batteries

[Marco Mangelsdorf]

Aloha Larry,

 

To take a step back…what’s the compelling value proposition from the 
homeowner’s perspective to incur this non-trivial additional expense?  To be 
blunt, what’s in it for them?  Back-up power?  First adopter mojo?

 

Thanks,

marco

 

August,

 

To be sure, there is a fragility in using LFP batteries if the integrator does 
not understand the pitfalls….and there are many. In November a lithium battery 
and solar “dealer” emailed me for help. He had damaged an $8000 battery bank 
and wanted to know how to get it working again. After I told him a few things 
to NOT do, I then offered my expertise for a $250 consulting fee. No response.  
I could tell of other cases where the unlearned have ruined their DIY 
installation or people have bought a LI-ion battery from dealers that won’t 
provide support. The stories are too many. 

 

I’ve been on the bleeding edge for 2 years now and I’m still discovering 
mistakes I made in the early application of our battery. Fortunately I am able 
to make the changes to hardware and software to keep the battery safe from 
humans. Lead is SO much more forgiving than Li-ion when it is not done right. 

 

We are up to 4-5 installations per month plus out the door sale of about 5 
systems per month. I receive email inquiries daily about our LFMP batteries. I 
have high hopes for products from the likes of Tesla. As I have said in the 
past, Lithium battery technology IS the future for RE storage…lead, your years 
are numbered. 


Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems

 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] LiFePO4; WAS Availability of Powerwall Batteries

[Dan Fink]

Marco;
Winter storms, hurricanes, earthquakes, tornados, floods, etc. - backup
power. Maybe load shaving as the utilities get more persnickety on time of
use upcharges.

Of course for most folks, an infernal combustion generator is far more cost
effective than batteries. But for an extended grid outage and with a
critical loads subpanel installed, PV charges on sunny days, generators
still need fuel which may be in short supply or inaccessible.
So, preppers. Most are surprised at how little autonomy time they get from
a really expensive battery bank, but if it's TEOTWAWKI at least their solar
"fuel" is free, minus the amortized cost of the battery bank. I get lots of
phone calls from preppers who really need lithium prescribed by their
psychologist far more than they need it in a backup battery bank..

 Lithium batteries seem impressive on how long they can sit unused / float
with no degradation, but I'd rather let all y'all be the guinea pigs on
them for awhile. I'm doing my part by guinea pigging NiFe batteries off the
grid. So far, so good, and darned glad I now know their ins and outs
compared to lead acid. I would have been horribly embarrassed if I'd done
my first NiFe battery bank for a customer instead of for myselfI chose
NiFe here simply because of decades of historical data, I don't trust
Lithium yet for longevity, but thanks Larry C and others on this list who
have been doing lithium batteries for years and reporting their results
here.

This Wrenches List is the gold standard of good information!


Dan Fink
Adjunct Professor, Ecotech Institute
IREC Certified Instructor™ for:
~ PV Installation Professional
~ Small Wind Installer
Executive Director, Buckville Energy
NABCEP Accredited Continuing Education Providers™
970.672.4342



On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 1:28 PM, Marco Mangelsdorf 
wrote:

> Aloha Larry,
>
>
>
> To take a step back…what’s the compelling value proposition from the
> homeowner’s perspective to incur this non-trivial additional expense?  To
> be blunt, what’s in it for them?  Back-up power?  First adopter mojo?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> marco
>
>
>
>
>
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