Re: [RE-wrenches] Solaredge Storedge

[Kirk Herander]

The hype is deafening on this. I agree in the Storedge design there appears to 
be no way to separate out critical loads for operation during an outage, unless 
the homeowner manually turns off non-critical circuits. Not ideal.

As for the Powerwall itself(not part of the Storedge system), they say 10kwh od 
storage costs $3,500. Hypothetically, that might be good for 24hrs of critical 
load power, maybe. But not usually in Vermont(Green Mountain Power territory), 
where multi-day outages are not uncommon. So in my area you might need two of 
the Powerwalls and still need a battery-based inverter.

I haven’t read the article yet, but do have a copy. My question is what makes 
the Powerwall anything more than a wall-hung battery enclosure with lithium-ion 
batteries? Look at all the extras you need to make it work without(we hope) 
limitations. I am disappointed that GMP, my State’s largest utility, can paint 
such a rosy picture of an unproven product. The romance will quickly fade  when 
sticker-shock of the real expense of battery –back up is exposed. It could turn 
into a PR nightmare for GMP.

 

 

Kirk Herander

VT Solar, LLC 

Proven PV provider since 1991

www.vermontsolarnow.com

dba Vermont Solar Engineering

NABCEPTM Inaugural Certificant

VT RE Incentive Program Partner

802.863.1202

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Rebekah Hren
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2015 10:01 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Solaredge Storedge

 

I hear you loud and clear Kirk. On the one hand it is pretty cool to see so 
much interest in battery-based systems, on the other hand the level of 
misinformation being spread around is frightening and time-consuming to combat.

 

There is a Bill McKibbon article in the New Yorker this week where he 
unfortunately, loudly and clearly, repeats the Tesla marketing spiel. He 
reports from the CEO of Green Mountain Power  -  "Powell was excited by its low 
price: three thousand dollars, far below what analysts had predicted, and low 
enough that her company could immediately begin installing it for customers, 
especially those who wanted backup electricity in case a snow-storm disabled 
the grid." 

 

Here's  a link the article:

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/06/29/power-to-the-people

 

The more I re-read this the angrier I get, and honestly it would be awesome to 
send a group co-signed letter to the New Yorker refuting this inanity and 
telling Bill M to do his homework. Send me an email off-list if anyone wants to 
follow-up. 

Rebekah Hren

 

 

 

On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 1:36 PM, Kirk Herander  wrote:

Here’s the reply I just got back from Solaredge:

 

“As this stands ATM Tesla has only announced the product, not finished 
developing it. As Tesla finalizes it the details will become available. Please 
click StorEdge on the bottom right of the web page and sign up for the 
announcements as they come available. Furthermore all of our inverters are 
compatible with this announcement “

 

I get a funny vibe about all this hype / vaporware. Announced, but still in 
development. Kind of like the Powerwall itself. The Powerwall is supposedly 
sold out through 2016, with $800 mil in advance orders, and no product being 
shipped. Are there any Powerwalls in operation anywhere in the real world? Even 
in beta test?

 

Available tech info on both Powerwall and Storedge is basically zero. Too bad 
nonsense marketing like this causes some potential customers to delay their 
commitment to install a system.

 

Kirk Herander

VT Solar, LLC 

Proven PV provider since 1991

www.vermontsolarnow.com

dba Vermont Solar Engineering

NABCEPTM Inaugural Certificant

VT RE Incentive Program Partner

802.863.1202

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of b...@midnitesolar.com
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 2:56 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Solaredge Storedge

 


I would think that Solar City would know all about this.

Or, maybe I wouldn't ?

boB



On 6/29/2015 11:06 AM, Rebekah Hren wrote:

I don't have any info, but the StorEdge diagram is confusing to me when it says 
"energy independence." I can see a simple compatibility between the Powerwall 
DC voltage (300 to 400VDC) and the SolarEdge operating voltage, ~350VDC, and I 
can also see how this setup could be used to maximize self-consumption (a 
grid-zero type system).  

 

What is confusing is the AC output of the inverter - it is not diagrammed as a 
multimode system, which is what "energy independence" would indicate to me. The 
brochure is not showing an AC loads panel that can be isolated from the grid, 
or any kind of separate transfer switch - which would be necessary for a 
multimode system. 

I would be curious to hear what the technical requirements will be to install 
the system as a multimode system, if that is indeed a possibility - which it 
may not be. 

 

 

Rebekah

 

On Mon, Jun 29,

Re: [RE-wrenches] Solaredge Storedge

[William Miller]

Kirk:

 

And a PR nightmare for integrators.  The customer will be very disappointed 
that you have to charge at least several times the cost of the battery pack to 
make it provide back-up power.  The overly rosy picture painted is a disservice 
to the industry.  

 

On a related note: It is 2015-- where is my flying car?

 

William

 

PS:  I can see retrofit battery banks as practical when used for peak shaving, 
as long as you can live with the losses.  Providing back-up power, other than 
cord connected, however, is a much more difficult endeavor.

 

Wm

 

Gradient Cap_mini
Lic 773985
  millersolar.com
805-438-5600

 

…It could turn into a PR nightmare for GMP.

 

 

Kirk Herander

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[RE-wrenches] AC modules O & M challenges

[Rebecca Lundberg]

Does anyone else have installations of the AUO/BenQ AC modules in the
field? If not, do you have other brand installations of AC modules with
SolarBridge microinverters? We have a site in MN that has modules installed
in 2011, and a phase two in 2013. The overall performance is exceptional.
However, we have had many inverters (9 at most recent count) at this
residential site fail, and it does not seem to be slowing down. Our
customer is notably concerned about the long term scenario for his product,
because we are doing the O and M on good will and we won't be doing this
forever. I do not need a lecture on O and M and residential customer
service, I choose highest quality products and understand the expected risk
involved (we do not do battery systems). But this product is proving to be
more challenging than any others, and the manufacturer (when they respond)
says nobody else has any issues, we are an anomoly..

We are receiving RMA units but not a stipend for replacement (and the site
is 45 minutes away). BenQ said they would replace the entire unit, but they
are really sending a new microinverter and we have to replace that on the
roof. The screws and attachments were not designed to be used more than
once... BenQ says they have a stipend for replacement, but realistically we
have not received it after years of this repair stuff and invoices being
sent, etc. At first our BenQ rep was very responsive. Recently I send four
or five emails and get no response. At one point the BenQ rep copied the
SunPower tech support person in the response (because SolarBridge sold to
SunPower) but I have not heard a word from them either. Does anyone know
how these companies are doing? We chose a product that appeared to have
bankable companies behind them even if they were a bit new to solar, but
right now BenQ, AUO, and SunPower have all been silent for many weeks. Most
recently I replaced three microinveters at the site but a return label for
the box was not included. I emailed and emailed and emailed and called,
asking if they wanted the units back so they could test them and try to
figure out what is going wrong, but have received NO response from anyone.
I was told that there are no problems on any other site but mine. Sure,
maybe MN winter is different from CA, but there must be others experiencing
something like this. I would welcome any input.

Sincerely,
Rebecca Lundberg
CEO, Powerfully Green (MN)



-- 
Rebecca Lundberg
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ®
Owner/President
*Powerfully Green*®
763.438.1976 | rebecca.lundb...@powerfullygreen.com

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Re: [RE-wrenches] AC modules O & M challenges

[August Goers]

Hi Rebecca,



My experience with ACPV is all SunPower but I imagine that the SolarBridge
product is similar to what is used with BenQ. We have something in the
range of 500 SunPower ACPV modules installed, almost all of the gen 1
SolarBridge variety. We’ve had several problems with the ACPV supervisor
monitoring box but probably only a half dozen or so micro failures spread
out on different sites. We definitely haven’t had a group of micros go down
like you’re experiencing. Are you aware that the connectors are very
finicky? The gen 1 connectors were very problematic and if not carefully
and fully seated there can be connection issues.



I wonder if part of your pain is due to the SunPower acquisition of
SolarBridge. Is BenQ still selling their ACPV product? Certainly we deal
with SunPower RMAs on a daily basis and they are responsive.



Sorry I don’t have much more concrete ideas for you, but I thought I’d
share my experience just so you have a reference point.



Best,



August

Luminalt





*From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
Behalf Of *Rebecca Lundberg
*Sent:* Thursday, July 02, 2015 4:20 PM
*To:* re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] AC modules O & M challenges



Does anyone else have installations of the AUO/BenQ AC modules in the
field? If not, do you have other brand installations of AC modules with
SolarBridge microinverters? We have a site in MN that has modules installed
in 2011, and a phase two in 2013. The overall performance is exceptional.
However, we have had many inverters (9 at most recent count) at this
residential site fail, and it does not seem to be slowing down. Our
customer is notably concerned about the long term scenario for his product,
because we are doing the O and M on good will and we won't be doing this
forever. I do not need a lecture on O and M and residential customer
service, I choose highest quality products and understand the expected risk
involved (we do not do battery systems). But this product is proving to be
more challenging than any others, and the manufacturer (when they respond)
says nobody else has any issues, we are an anomoly..



We are receiving RMA units but not a stipend for replacement (and the site
is 45 minutes away). BenQ said they would replace the entire unit, but they
are really sending a new microinverter and we have to replace that on the
roof. The screws and attachments were not designed to be used more than
once... BenQ says they have a stipend for replacement, but realistically we
have not received it after years of this repair stuff and invoices being
sent, etc. At first our BenQ rep was very responsive. Recently I send four
or five emails and get no response. At one point the BenQ rep copied the
SunPower tech support person in the response (because SolarBridge sold to
SunPower) but I have not heard a word from them either. Does anyone know
how these companies are doing? We chose a product that appeared to have
bankable companies behind them even if they were a bit new to solar, but
right now BenQ, AUO, and SunPower have all been silent for many weeks. Most
recently I replaced three microinveters at the site but a return label for
the box was not included. I emailed and emailed and emailed and called,
asking if they wanted the units back so they could test them and try to
figure out what is going wrong, but have received NO response from anyone.
I was told that there are no problems on any other site but mine. Sure,
maybe MN winter is different from CA, but there must be others experiencing
something like this. I would welcome any input.



Sincerely,

Rebecca Lundberg

CEO, Powerfully Green (MN)





-- 

Rebecca Lundberg
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ®
Owner/President
*Powerfully Green*®
763.438.1976 | rebecca.lundb...@powerfullygreen.com

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