Re: [RE-wrenches] Apricus SHW Charging
Carl Not sure about the high pressure ,as I use flat plates, but I would assume it is because of the extremely high stagnation temps. What does the manufacturer say? As for charge pump, you could use a progressive cavity, ' carbonator pump'. Contact off list for more info--- - Original Message - From: "Carl Adams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 11:20 PM Subject: [RE-wrenches] Apricus SHW Charging I am reviewing the commissioning instructions for the Apricus solar DHW system. I note that the specified charging pressure for the glycol loop is 72.5 psi per the manual. This seems high compared to other systems I have experience with. Can anyone comment on 1) The science behind the high system charging pressure and 2) an off the shelf pump you use to achieve these pressures With Regards Carl Adams NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer NABCEP Certified Solar Thermal Installer SunRock Solar Cincinnati, Ohio www.sunrocksolar.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Apricus SHW Charging
We have used a big transfer pump (from Lowes) that gives us the pressure... but I'm wondering if this big pump is causing cavitation created bubbles leading to air in the system? with our old, low er head pump (an AC powered shurflow diaphram) we never had these mystery air pockets. way over my head in hot water... but Carl's question led to me posting this question on "too big of a pump". For a brighter energy future, Geoff Greenfield Founder and CEO Third Sun Solar & Wind Power Ltd. 340 West State Street, Unit 25 Athens, OH 45701 740.597.3111 Fax 740.597.1548 www.Third-Sun.com Clean Energy - Expertly Installed - "Ken Schaal" wrote: > Carl > Not sure about the high pressure ,as I use flat plates, but I would assume > it is because of the extremely high stagnation temps. What does the > manufacturer say? > As for charge pump, you could use a progressive cavity, ' carbonator pump'. > Contact off list for more info--- > - Original Message - > From: "Carl Adams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 11:20 PM > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Apricus SHW Charging > >I am reviewing the commissioning instructions for the Apricus solar > > DHW system. I note that the specified charging pressure for the > > glycol loop is 72.5 psi per the manual. This seems high compared to > > other systems I have experience with. Can anyone comment on > > 1) The science behind the high system charging pressure and > > 2) an off the shelf pump you use to achieve these pressures > > > > With Regards > > Carl Adams > > NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer > > NABCEP Certified Solar Thermal Installer > > SunRock Solar > > Cincinnati, Ohio > > www.sunrocksolar.com > > ___ > > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > Options & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List-Archive: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out participant bios: > > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > Options & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Apricus SHW Charging
Carl, I install APRICUS evacuated collectors too: Guess I missed that in the manual about the 72.5 PSI [.5 PSI? right], still looking for it. I set my system pressure to 20 PSI @ cold [no tubes in the collector] plus [elevation compensation ] of + 1 psi per 2.3 ft of head, and typically use a 50 psi PRV. So, basically 22 PSI for collectors on a single story roof and 30 PSI for a two story installation. I set the expansion tank bladder pre-charge to the 20 PSI plus head adjustment pressure too. No call backs on this pressure combination for me. Best solar hot water collector I have installed to date. I enjoy the 190+ deg. F solar heated water in my tank. I do not feel guilty about that long shower at the end of the day. I sent a copy of this to my supplier for their input and will report back on their advise. Stay in Hot water All! Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc www.solarwork.com E - [EMAIL PROTECTED] V - 970.626.5253 F - 970.626.4140 C - 970.209.4076 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Carl Adams Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:21 PM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] Apricus SHW Charging I am reviewing the commissioning instructions for the Apricus solar DHW system. I note that the specified charging pressure for the glycol loop is 72.5 psi per the manual. This seems high compared to other systems I have experience with. Can anyone comment on 1) The science behind the high system charging pressure and 2) an off the shelf pump you use to achieve these pressures With Regards Carl Adams NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer NABCEP Certified Solar Thermal Installer SunRock Solar Cincinnati, Ohio www.sunrocksolar.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Sharp racking on cement roof tiles
Wm, Client with ancient barrel tile wanted to keep the precious and didn't want us breaking a single one (we cracked three or four just investigating with a 195lb person up there (me). Roofer was called in. Tile was removed under the array all the way to eave. Comp shingle was laid under top row of tile and all the way to eave. PV array was installed and framed (centered) nicely. Two rows of barrel tile were replaced below bottom edge of array to eave. One could not see posts or flashings under the array, and gave the array a floating look over the regular tile roof common to the rest of the rooftop. Water drained into rain gutter at edge of eave underneath array. Water drained over AND under last two rows of barrel tile into gutter solving aesthetic issue. Cooling air flow was still sufficient under array. Peter D. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of William Miller Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:55 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Sharp racking on cement roof tiles Max: We had a client who, on a barrel tile roof, insisted on removing tiles from under the array but wanted to keep tiles below the array. There was no good way to divert water from under the lower tiles. The roofer first tried using some roll roof that cracked and then used lead flashing. There was still a mosquito pond where the water pooled. Also, the "built in" look creates cooling flow restrictions. We eventually gave up on the built in look. Wm At 08:13 PM 10/29/2008, you wrote: >Daryl, the best way to deal with it is to take the tiles off under the >array. This will give the system a lower profile and a "built in" look. >The other choice is to drill through the tile to get into the rafters. >I've put a system in the Cayman Islands and you want to make sure you >do it according to spec and then some when you have the potential for >hurricane class winds. >Max Balchowsky >Design Engineer >Empire Solar Solutions >562-244-7068 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Sharp racking on cement roof tiles
"Roof Hooks" supplied by Conergy are what I have used and it works very well. You pull the tile accordingly with the rafter and replace the tile. The tile stays in tact and water leakage is also kept to a bare minimum. They look like a "J" or very similar, give a rep from Conergy the application and they can help with the specific shape to purchase. Wear Gloves! I have ruined my hands on tile roofs. Good luck! On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 10:13 PM, Max Balchowsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Daryl, the best way to deal with it is to take the tiles off under the > array. This will give the system a lower profile and a "built in" look. The > other choice is to drill through the tile to get into the rafters. I've put > a system in the Cayman Islands and you want to make sure you do it according > to spec and then some when you have the potential for hurricane class > winds. > Max Balchowsky > Design Engineer > Empire Solar Solutions > 562-244-7068 > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Hi all, > We are currently sizing an 8-10 kw system in Nassau in the Bahamas and > are faced with installing a racking system on 1 inch thick cement roof > tiles. We have not done the Sharp training as they seem to be > perpetually full before we get to them and their responses are only > form letter responses. > Has anyone installed their racking on this type of roof? The tiles > measure approximately 8 inches wide and, as I said, are 1 inch thick. > Thanks in advance for your input. > > > Daryl DeJoy > NABCEP Certified PV installer > Certified Advanced PV Design > Penobscot Solar Design > > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Options & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Options & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > -- Jason Lombard Open Hand Solar LLC. HC74 Box13 Pecos, NM. 87552 505 795 8646 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Sharp racking on cement roof tiles
Peter: What about the battens? Did you not have battens supporting the lower two rows of tiles? Did they not require nails that penetrated the comp and paper? Did the battens form a dam? William Miller At 07:42 AM 10/30/2008, you wrote: Wm, Client with ancient barrel tile wanted to keep the precious and didn't want us breaking a single one (we cracked three or four just investigating with a 195lb person up there (me). Roofer was called in. Tile was removed under the array all the way to eave. Comp shingle was laid under top row of tile and all the way to eave. PV array was installed and framed (centered) nicely. Two rows of barrel tile were replaced below bottom edge of array to eave. One could not see posts or flashings under the array, and gave the array a floating look over the regular tile roof common to the rest of the rooftop. Water drained into rain gutter at edge of eave underneath array. Water drained over AND under last two rows of barrel tile into gutter solving aesthetic issue. Cooling air flow was still sufficient under array. Peter D. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of William Miller Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:55 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Sharp racking on cement roof tiles Max: We had a client who, on a barrel tile roof, insisted on removing tiles from under the array but wanted to keep tiles below the array. There was no good way to divert water from under the lower tiles. The roofer first tried using some roll roof that cracked and then used lead flashing. There was still a mosquito pond where the water pooled. Also, the "built in" look creates cooling flow restrictions. We eventually gave up on the built in look. Wm At 08:13 PM 10/29/2008, you wrote: >Daryl, the best way to deal with it is to take the tiles off under the >array. This will give the system a lower profile and a "built in" look. >The other choice is to drill through the tile to get into the rafters. >I've put a system in the Cayman Islands and you want to make sure you >do it according to spec and then some when you have the potential for >hurricane class winds. >Max Balchowsky >Design Engineer >Empire Solar Solutions >562-244-7068 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] mix-n-match Unisolar
I thought I knew the answer to this one, but wanted to run it by the list. We are responding to a bid where the electrical engineer has designed a system with different sized Uni-solar laminates in some series strings paralelled with consistant full size strings. (this was done to work around skylights etc). We suggested that this was a poor design and will lead to "least common denomenator" performance, exacerbated by MPPT confusion. The EE responded that "the bypass diodes allow for this". Any experience with this in practice? For a brighter energy future, Geoff Greenfield Founder and CEO Third Sun Solar & Wind Power Ltd. 340 West State Street, Unit 25 Athens, OH 45701 740.597.3111 Fax 740.597.1548 www.Third-Sun.com Clean Energy - Expertly Installed ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] mix-n-match Unisolar
Reality tends to agree with the EE. But opinion pushes the other way. Sky Sims Ecological Systems http://www.ecologicalsystems.biz 220 County Road 522 Manalapan, NJ 07726 732-462-3858 toll free)866-759-7652 fax)732-462-3962 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Geoff Greenfield Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 4:31 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Randy Subject: [RE-wrenches] mix-n-match Unisolar I thought I knew the answer to this one, but wanted to run it by the list. We are responding to a bid where the electrical engineer has designed a system with different sized Uni-solar laminates in some series strings paralelled with consistant full size strings. (this was done to work around skylights etc). We suggested that this was a poor design and will lead to "least common denomenator" performance, exacerbated by MPPT confusion. The EE responded that "the bypass diodes allow for this". Any experience with this in practice? For a brighter energy future, Geoff Greenfield Founder and CEO Third Sun Solar & Wind Power Ltd. 340 West State Street, Unit 25 Athens, OH 45701 740.597.3111 Fax 740.597.1548 www.Third-Sun.com Clean Energy - Expertly Installed No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1757 - Release Date: 10/30/2008 2:35 PM ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Apricus SHW Charging
Hi Carl, We've installed Apricus systems for about 3 years. I expect that the 72.5 psi = 5 bars, is the recommended system TEST pressure, before charging. We hold pressure on all our systems at 75 - 80 psi, before charging at 25 to 35 psi. We used to take the test pressure higher, before using pump units (which Apricus relabeles and markets with their collectors) with pressure gauges that aren't rated for it. If I recall correctly, the limit was just about 5 bars -Kelly On 10/29/08 8:20 PM, "Carl Adams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I am reviewing the commissioning instructions for the Apricus solar > DHW system. I note that the specified charging pressure for the > glycol loop is 72.5 psi per the manual. This seems high compared to > other systems I have experience with. Can anyone comment on > 1) The science behind the high system charging pressure and > 2) an off the shelf pump you use to achieve these pressures > > With Regards > Carl Adams > NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer > NABCEP Certified Solar Thermal Installer > SunRock Solar > Cincinnati, Ohio > www.sunrocksolar.com > ___ Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun & Wind, LLC Renewable Energy Systems NABCEP Certified PV Installer 987 Wanamaker Rd, Coupeville, WA 98239 PH & FAX 360-678-7131 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] mix-n-match Unisolar
If you had, for instance, strings of quantity 10 PVL136 watt modules, and you needed to put in a 68 watt module because of a skylight, then you would want to use a string of 9 PVL136 watt + 2 PVL68 watt. This would keep the voltages the same between strings. Having a string of 9 PVL136 + 1 PVL68 paralleled with strings of 10 PVL136 would cause some of the strings to see non-optimal voltages. I don't see how bypass diodes would fix things. > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 13:29:38 -0700 (PDT) > From: Geoff Greenfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [RE-wrenches] mix-n-match Unisolar > To: RE-wrenches > Cc: Randy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Message-ID: ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > I thought I knew the answer to this one, but wanted to run it by the list. > > > > We are responding to a bid where the electrical engineer has designed a > system with different sized Uni-solar laminates in some?series strings > paralelled with consistant full size strings.? (this was done to work around > skylights etc). > > > > We suggested that this was a poor design and will lead to "least common > denomenator" performance, exacerbated by MPPT confusion.? The EE responded > that "the bypass diodes allow for this". > > > > Any experience with this in practice? > > > For a brighter energy future, > > Geoff Greenfield > Founder and CEO > Third Sun Solar & Wind Power Ltd. > 340 West State Street, Unit 25 > Athens, OH 45701 > > 740.597.3111 ? ? Fax 740.597.1548 > www.Third-Sun.com > > Clean Energy - Expertly Installed > > > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] LA Fire Dept Signage requirements
I think we found a source of Los Angeles FD labels. They comply in every respect to the document; "Los Angeles Department Requirements "SOLAR PHOTOVOLTAIC SYSTEMS". F.P.B. Requirement No. 90, 6-30-08 Labels are 2 in x 3" with white letters on a red background, min 3/8 in. high, arial font all caps. Label #1"CAUTION: SOLAR ELECTRIC SYSTEMS CONNECTED" is for main service disconnect (one per job). Label #2 "CAUTION: SOLAR CIRCUIT" is for DC conduit, raceways, enclosures, cable assemblies, DC combiners and j-boxes (five to ten per job?). We are going to order 500 ea of label #1 and 1,000 ea of label #2. Proofs will be available before printing. Prices $298 (59 cents ea) and $425 (43 cents ea.). If you want to take a chance on these puppies, contact me off line. I think we should get some price breaks if I can bundle a number of orders. [Marlene: hold off for a couple of days until we see if other wrenches are interested.] - Peter Peter T. Parrish California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
