Re: [RBW] Re: Anodized Silver vs Polished Components. Which do you prefer?

[Garth]

To me polished to be sustainably sparkly is best reserved for 
raw/unfinished aluminum parts. I have Specialized Stage FW hubs from the 
80's that are that and with some simple hand polishing using Blue Magic and 
a rag become shimmery rotating hourglasses. Most vintage derailleurs are 
raw also and take to hand polishing well. Velocity NoBS rims are raw and 
would take to polishing too. Yes it requires periodic polishing to keep it 
that way, but to me hand polished parts look better than factory polished. 
There are few if any new raw/unfinished parts these though, save removing 
factory black anodising  and polishing the raw finish. Otherwise anodised 
silver is acceptable for parts. I must say, seatposts are especially lovely 
when hand polished, as are stems, as are cranks . oh hell .. what 
isn't ? Ahahahahahaaa !  

When I hand polish I dont set out to get into every nook and be overly 
detailed about it. "Good enough" is the motto. It's like shaving with 
double edge safety razors, the "good enough" shave is easy peasy and fun 
and remarkable durable. 
On Tuesday, August 13, 2024 at 7:24:36 PM UTC-4 Ed Fausto wrote:

> Hi Michael,
> I tend to agree with Nick and Peter.
> I previously bought brand new polished Son hub and Cliffhanger rim which 
> after 1 year of use have tarnished which regular cleaning would not make 
> any difference.
> So all my succeeding purchases where silver anodized which held up better 
> even after prolonged use.
>
> Just based on my personal experience.
> Ed Fausto
>
> On Wednesday, August 14, 2024 at 6:13:32 AM UTC+8 peter...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> In fact, anodized will look a whole lot better a few years down the road 
>> if you ride year 'round on roads that get salted in the winter. I tend to 
>> ride my fat tire bike in winter which has a B&M IQ-X headlight. The Riv has 
>> an Edelux II polished, and rarely if ever gets road salt on it.
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 13, 2024 at 12:05 AM Nick Payne  wrote:
>>
>>> Anodised will look a bit better a few years down the road than polished.
>>>
>>> On the Mason that I most recently built up, I had no choice of colour 
>>> for a lot of the components I was using - e.g. C-F rims are black, SRAM AXS 
>>> shifters/derailleurs are black, the Shimano XT M737 cranks I had are silver 
>>> anodised, as was the Ritchey seatpost, but I decided on a bit of colour 
>>> co-ordination to go with the Orange BxB saddlebag I already had and would 
>>> be using, so I fitted orange Hope disc calipers and used orange handlebar 
>>> tape.
>>>
>>> Nick Payne
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/fe572df7-1227-41d7-b610-3eb14ae21f17n%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Peter White
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: 57 Sergio Green Roadini

[Andrew Joseph]

Located in Oklahoma City.

Cheers,

Drew
On Tuesday, August 13, 2024 at 3:18:44 PM UTC-5 Andrew Joseph wrote:

> Update, willing to separate now…
>
> FS:
>
>
> 57 Sergio Green Roadini. A couple of very minor paint chips. The most 
> significant is visible on the fork eyelet paint. It’s spent its short life 
> as a demo bike for Mack’s Bikes and Goods in Chicago. I purchased the 
> frameset directly from Sam at Mack’s. Low mileage, light use, zero dents or 
> issues. Will include an FSA headset and Tektro 559 silver brakes.
>
>
> I haven’t built it up since purchasing. 
>
>
> IG Post of the actual bike and frame here as purchased… 
> https://www.instagram.com/macksbikeandgoods/p/C54VtQjLP3T/?img_index=1
>
>
> I also have a Crust Rim brake Wheelset: 700c, 32h F/R, 23mm internal 
> width, 130mm rear spacing, Shutter Precision SV-8 dynamo front hub. 8spd 
> cassette, quick release levers and rim tape included. Hardly used, a few 
> hundred miles.  
> https://crustbikes.com/collections/wheels/products/crust-randonneur-rim-brake-wheelsets
>
>
> Let says $1500 plus shipping for both the frameset, headset, brakes, and 
> dynamo wheelset? 
>
>
> $1100 for F/F/HS, you cover shipping.
>
>
> $400 for wheelset, you cover shipping.
>
>
> Berthoud Ti Galibier saddle with cork top, plus black replacement top 
> (like new), Randi Jo Fabrications cover (unused). $300 shipped
>
>
> 700C x 44 Snoqualmie Pass Endurance casing tires, less than 300 miles - 
> $120 shipped
>
>
> The frame and wheels are already at my shop and ready to be packaged. 
>
>
> [image: image0.jpeg][image: image1.jpeg][image: image2.jpeg][image: 
> image3.jpeg][image: image4.jpeg]
>
> 
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Anodized Silver vs Polished Components. Which do you prefer?

[Ryan]

Well...thanks all...I learned something(as I usually do in this 
group)maybe thinking about it would have led me to the conclusion that 
silver-anodizing is more durable than simple polishing because the 
anodizing is a protective coating. But it doesn't  last forever. My late 
partner took off his 90's XTR cranks from a 90s Specialized carbon S-works 
Stumpjumper that delaminated at  the driveside chainstay(alas) and put them 
on my old PX10 SS...and you can see that the anodizing has worn off on the 
crank arms from use. Functionally , they're just fine however. 

On Wednesday, August 14, 2024 at 5:02:16 AM UTC-5 Garth wrote:

> To me polished to be sustainably sparkly is best reserved for 
> raw/unfinished aluminum parts. I have Specialized Stage FW hubs from the 
> 80's that are that and with some simple hand polishing using Blue Magic and 
> a rag become shimmery rotating hourglasses. Most vintage derailleurs are 
> raw also and take to hand polishing well. Velocity NoBS rims are raw and 
> would take to polishing too. Yes it requires periodic polishing to keep it 
> that way, but to me hand polished parts look better than factory polished. 
> There are few if any new raw/unfinished parts these though, save removing 
> factory black anodising  and polishing the raw finish. Otherwise anodised 
> silver is acceptable for parts. I must say, seatposts are especially lovely 
> when hand polished, as are stems, as are cranks . oh hell .. what 
> isn't ? Ahahahahahaaa !  
>
> When I hand polish I dont set out to get into every nook and be overly 
> detailed about it. "Good enough" is the motto. It's like shaving with 
> double edge safety razors, the "good enough" shave is easy peasy and fun 
> and remarkable durable. 
> On Tuesday, August 13, 2024 at 7:24:36 PM UTC-4 Ed Fausto wrote:
>
>> Hi Michael,
>> I tend to agree with Nick and Peter.
>> I previously bought brand new polished Son hub and Cliffhanger rim which 
>> after 1 year of use have tarnished which regular cleaning would not make 
>> any difference.
>> So all my succeeding purchases where silver anodized which held up better 
>> even after prolonged use.
>>
>> Just based on my personal experience.
>> Ed Fausto
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 14, 2024 at 6:13:32 AM UTC+8 peter...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In fact, anodized will look a whole lot better a few years down the road 
>>> if you ride year 'round on roads that get salted in the winter. I tend to 
>>> ride my fat tire bike in winter which has a B&M IQ-X headlight. The Riv has 
>>> an Edelux II polished, and rarely if ever gets road salt on it.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 13, 2024 at 12:05 AM Nick Payne  wrote:
>>>
 Anodised will look a bit better a few years down the road than polished.

 On the Mason that I most recently built up, I had no choice of colour 
 for a lot of the components I was using - e.g. C-F rims are black, SRAM 
 AXS 
 shifters/derailleurs are black, the Shimano XT M737 cranks I had are 
 silver 
 anodised, as was the Ritchey seatpost, but I decided on a bit of colour 
 co-ordination to go with the Orange BxB saddlebag I already had and would 
 be using, so I fitted orange Hope disc calipers and used orange handlebar 
 tape.

 Nick Payne

 -- 

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 Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
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 https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/fe572df7-1227-41d7-b610-3eb14ae21f17n%40googlegroups.com
  
 
 .

>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Peter White
>>>
>>

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[RBW] ISO: 51-52 Sam

[Rich Lesnik]

I'm looking for a 51 or 52cm Sam Hillborne frame/fork (HS/BB optional). To
buy or trade for my 52cm Appaloosa frame/fork (etc).

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Re: [RBW] Re: Anodized Silver vs Polished Components. Which do you prefer?

[Peter White]

Well sure. The anodizing on a crank is going to wear from abrasion with
your shoe. That's hard to avoid. But there's usually nothing rubbing on
brake calipers or rear derailleurs, seat posts, front derailleur clamps, or
handlebar stems.

On Wed, Aug 14, 2024 at 10:34 AM Ryan  wrote:

> Well...thanks all...I learned something(as I usually do in this
> group)maybe thinking about it would have led me to the conclusion that
> silver-anodizing is more durable than simple polishing because the
> anodizing is a protective coating. But it doesn't  last forever. My late
> partner took off his 90's XTR cranks from a 90s Specialized carbon S-works
> Stumpjumper that delaminated at  the driveside chainstay(alas) and put them
> on my old PX10 SS...and you can see that the anodizing has worn off on the
> crank arms from use. Functionally , they're just fine however.
>
> On Wednesday, August 14, 2024 at 5:02:16 AM UTC-5 Garth wrote:
>
>> To me polished to be sustainably sparkly is best reserved for
>> raw/unfinished aluminum parts. I have Specialized Stage FW hubs from the
>> 80's that are that and with some simple hand polishing using Blue Magic and
>> a rag become shimmery rotating hourglasses. Most vintage derailleurs are
>> raw also and take to hand polishing well. Velocity NoBS rims are raw and
>> would take to polishing too. Yes it requires periodic polishing to keep it
>> that way, but to me hand polished parts look better than factory polished.
>> There are few if any new raw/unfinished parts these though, save removing
>> factory black anodising  and polishing the raw finish. Otherwise anodised
>> silver is acceptable for parts. I must say, seatposts are especially lovely
>> when hand polished, as are stems, as are cranks . oh hell .. what
>> isn't ? Ahahahahahaaa !
>>
>> When I hand polish I dont set out to get into every nook and be overly
>> detailed about it. "Good enough" is the motto. It's like shaving with
>> double edge safety razors, the "good enough" shave is easy peasy and fun
>> and remarkable durable.
>> On Tuesday, August 13, 2024 at 7:24:36 PM UTC-4 Ed Fausto wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Michael,
>>> I tend to agree with Nick and Peter.
>>> I previously bought brand new polished Son hub and Cliffhanger rim which
>>> after 1 year of use have tarnished which regular cleaning would not make
>>> any difference.
>>> So all my succeeding purchases where silver anodized which held up
>>> better even after prolonged use.
>>>
>>> Just based on my personal experience.
>>> Ed Fausto
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, August 14, 2024 at 6:13:32 AM UTC+8 peter...@gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
 In fact, anodized will look a whole lot better a few years down the
 road if you ride year 'round on roads that get salted in the winter. I tend
 to ride my fat tire bike in winter which has a B&M IQ-X headlight. The Riv
 has an Edelux II polished, and rarely if ever gets road salt on it.

 On Tue, Aug 13, 2024 at 12:05 AM Nick Payne  wrote:

> Anodised will look a bit better a few years down the road than
> polished.
>
> On the Mason that I most recently built up, I had no choice of colour
> for a lot of the components I was using - e.g. C-F rims are black, SRAM 
> AXS
> shifters/derailleurs are black, the Shimano XT M737 cranks I had are 
> silver
> anodised, as was the Ritchey seatpost, but I decided on a bit of colour
> co-ordination to go with the Orange BxB saddlebag I already had and would
> be using, so I fitted orange Hope disc calipers and used orange handlebar
> tape.
>
> Nick Payne
>
> --
>
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>
 To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/fe572df7-1227-41d7-b610-3eb14ae21f17n%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>


 --
 Peter White

>>> --
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> 
> .
>


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[RBW] Re: ISO: 22.2 clamp-on brake cable hanger

['Peter Bridge' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I wrestled with this question and ended up spending the money on the Paul 
piece.

paul components funky monkey - Google Search 


pb  

On Tuesday, August 13, 2024 at 3:32:51 PM UTC-7 jyos...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hello! I am trying to find a cable hanger that will clamp on to a 22.2 
> nitto quill stem. I recently purchased a sam through the group (photos will 
> come when the build is complete!) but it seems the steer tube may have been 
> cut down at some point and won't fit a usual cable hanger in the headset. 
> So clamp-on it must be. Something akin to the the elusive nitto x 
> fairweather cable hanger. Thanks!
>
> Also in search of a nitto drop bar cockpit. I have losco bars and long 
> quill nitto technomic  on it at the moment but not sure they'll stay. Will 
> consider trades!
>
> Thanks! 
> Jacob in midcoast maine
>

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[RBW] Re: Northern Hemisphere Summer 2024 Photos

[Eric Marth]

Beautiful Sam build and photo, Steve, love those tones and the parts 
selection. 

On Tuesday, August 13, 2024 at 12:18:42 AM UTC-4 velomann wrote:

> A couple pics from a 6-day bike camping trip in the San Juan Islands in 
> early July.
> [image: IMG_5870.jpg]
> [image: IMG_5861.jpg]
> [image: IMG_5809.jpg]
> [image: IMG_5742.jpg]
>
> On Monday, June 24, 2024 at 3:14:05 PM UTC-7 Ted Durant wrote:
>
>> Okay, it's officially summer. Near perfect conditions today, lots of sun, 
>> not much wind (and what there was came of the lake so nice and cool), 
>> fields starting to come up. It's been a wet spring so it's green green 
>> green everywhere. Paradise Rd is ... paradise on wheels. Downhill this 
>> direction.
>>
>> [image: IMG_2160.jpeg]
>> [image: IMG_2163.jpeg]
>>
>> Ted Durant
>> Milwaukee, WI USA
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: ISO: 22.2 clamp-on brake cable hanger

[Greg J]

There's also the brake hanger that bolts to the hole in the fork.  Like 
this one: 
 https://www.treefortbikes.com/Tektro-Front-Cable-Hanger-Canti-Fork-Mount

On Wednesday, August 14, 2024 at 11:47:02 AM UTC-7 Peter Bridge wrote:

> I wrestled with this question and ended up spending the money on the Paul 
> piece.
>
> paul components funky monkey - Google Search 
> 
>
> pb  
>
> On Tuesday, August 13, 2024 at 3:32:51 PM UTC-7 jyos...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Hello! I am trying to find a cable hanger that will clamp on to a 22.2 
>> nitto quill stem. I recently purchased a sam through the group (photos will 
>> come when the build is complete!) but it seems the steer tube may have been 
>> cut down at some point and won't fit a usual cable hanger in the headset. 
>> So clamp-on it must be. Something akin to the the elusive nitto x 
>> fairweather cable hanger. Thanks!
>>
>> Also in search of a nitto drop bar cockpit. I have losco bars and long 
>> quill nitto technomic  on it at the moment but not sure they'll stay. Will 
>> consider trades!
>>
>> Thanks! 
>> Jacob in midcoast maine
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: ISO: 22.2 clamp-on brake cable hanger

[RichS]

Jacob, if the Paul Funky Monkey is the one you want I have an extra one in 
silver I'll sell you. Like new condition. Say $35 shipped. If interested 
I'll retrive a picture or two and send to you

Best,
Rich in ATL

On Tuesday, August 13, 2024 at 6:32:51 PM UTC-4 jyos...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hello! I am trying to find a cable hanger that will clamp on to a 22.2 
> nitto quill stem. I recently purchased a sam through the group (photos will 
> come when the build is complete!) but it seems the steer tube may have been 
> cut down at some point and won't fit a usual cable hanger in the headset. 
> So clamp-on it must be. Something akin to the the elusive nitto x 
> fairweather cable hanger. Thanks!
>
> Also in search of a nitto drop bar cockpit. I have losco bars and long 
> quill nitto technomic  on it at the moment but not sure they'll stay. Will 
> consider trades!
>
> Thanks! 
> Jacob in midcoast maine
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: ISO: 22.2 clamp-on brake cable hanger

[Jacob Yosowitz]

Thanks for all the responses. Rich I would’ve taken you up on it, but I was
at the LBS today and bought a 25.4 clamp-on hanger and shims to make it
work with the 22.2 stem.

*Jacob*


On Wed, Aug 14, 2024 at 4:43 PM RichS  wrote:

> Jacob, if the Paul Funky Monkey is the one you want I have an extra one in
> silver I'll sell you. Like new condition. Say $35 shipped. If interested
> I'll retrive a picture or two and send to you
>
> Best,
> Rich in ATL
>
> On Tuesday, August 13, 2024 at 6:32:51 PM UTC-4 jyos...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Hello! I am trying to find a cable hanger that will clamp on to a 22.2
>> nitto quill stem. I recently purchased a sam through the group (photos will
>> come when the build is complete!) but it seems the steer tube may have been
>> cut down at some point and won't fit a usual cable hanger in the headset.
>> So clamp-on it must be. Something akin to the the elusive nitto x
>> fairweather cable hanger. Thanks!
>>
>> Also in search of a nitto drop bar cockpit. I have losco bars and long
>> quill nitto technomic  on it at the moment but not sure they'll stay. Will
>> consider trades!
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Jacob in midcoast maine
>>
> --
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: ISO: 22.2 clamp-on brake cable hanger

[R Shannon]

Jacob, glad you found a hanger that works for you.

Best,
Rich in ATL

On Wed, Aug 14, 2024 at 5:28 PM Jacob Yosowitz  wrote:

> Thanks for all the responses. Rich I would’ve taken you up on it, but I
> was at the LBS today and bought a 25.4 clamp-on hanger and shims to make it
> work with the 22.2 stem.
>
> *Jacob*
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 14, 2024 at 4:43 PM RichS  wrote:
>
>> Jacob, if the Paul Funky Monkey is the one you want I have an extra one
>> in silver I'll sell you. Like new condition. Say $35 shipped. If interested
>> I'll retrive a picture or two and send to you
>>
>> Best,
>> Rich in ATL
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 13, 2024 at 6:32:51 PM UTC-4 jyos...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Hello! I am trying to find a cable hanger that will clamp on to a 22.2
>>> nitto quill stem. I recently purchased a sam through the group (photos will
>>> come when the build is complete!) but it seems the steer tube may have been
>>> cut down at some point and won't fit a usual cable hanger in the headset.
>>> So clamp-on it must be. Something akin to the the elusive nitto x
>>> fairweather cable hanger. Thanks!
>>>
>>> Also in search of a nitto drop bar cockpit. I have losco bars and long
>>> quill nitto technomic  on it at the moment but not sure they'll stay. Will
>>> consider trades!
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> Jacob in midcoast maine
>>>
>> --
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> 
>> .
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: ISO: 22.2 clamp-on brake cable hanger

[Huston]

Rich,

I'm on the hunt for a Paul F.M.  Which version do you have?  I'm 
specifically looking for the 27.2mm seatpost version to replace a Nitto 
that is allowing too much cable flexing during braking.  Thanks for your 
time.

Huston
Lexington, KY

On Wednesday, August 14, 2024 at 5:35:55 PM UTC-4 RichS wrote:

> Jacob, glad you found a hanger that works for you.
>
> Best,
> Rich in ATL
>
> On Wed, Aug 14, 2024 at 5:28 PM Jacob Yosowitz  wrote:
>
>> Thanks for all the responses. Rich I would’ve taken you up on it, but I 
>> was at the LBS today and bought a 25.4 clamp-on hanger and shims to make it 
>> work with the 22.2 stem. 
>>
>> *Jacob*
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 14, 2024 at 4:43 PM RichS  wrote:
>>
>>> Jacob, if the Paul Funky Monkey is the one you want I have an extra one 
>>> in silver I'll sell you. Like new condition. Say $35 shipped. If interested 
>>> I'll retrive a picture or two and send to you
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Rich in ATL
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 13, 2024 at 6:32:51 PM UTC-4 jyos...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 Hello! I am trying to find a cable hanger that will clamp on to a 22.2 
 nitto quill stem. I recently purchased a sam through the group (photos 
 will 
 come when the build is complete!) but it seems the steer tube may have 
 been 
 cut down at some point and won't fit a usual cable hanger in the headset. 
 So clamp-on it must be. Something akin to the the elusive nitto x 
 fairweather cable hanger. Thanks!

 Also in search of a nitto drop bar cockpit. I have losco bars and long 
 quill nitto technomic  on it at the moment but not sure they'll stay. Will 
 consider trades!

 Thanks! 
 Jacob in midcoast maine

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>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
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[RBW] RoadUno build anticipation

[Bill Lindsay]

I'm eagerly waiting for the container to get to Walnut Creek.  Today my 
grips came in.  I'm going with a Silver RoadUno, which features purples in 
the graphics.  I bought purple Vans Lock on grips, whose clamps match a 
very cool oil slick purple Affinity 15mm mini ratchet wrench that I already 
had.  In front of the brake levers I'll run eggplant Newbaums, which I'll 
wrap over a layer of ESI silicon tape.   

A pic proves it: 
 https://flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/53923848393/in/album-72177720319534027

I've started an album to capture the build.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

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Re: [RBW] 2024 Appaloosa Thread

[Armand Kizirian]

Dan, I love the way the Platypus rides, but I've come to prefer the 
function of a full front triangle. I've gotten used to having a custom half 
frame bag with two bottles (+ third!) on my other bikes. I'd like to have 
the same with my Riv. For some reason I don't like the ana purple on the 
Appaloosa as much as I do on my Platypus though! Sergio green seems too 
boring to me. Those lime-olive Appa's would be the winner for me. I 
definitely don't care enough to pull the trigger on this batch, but if 
someone reading this happens to want to trade a 55 Platy for a 54 Appa 
shoot me a DM. 

On Tuesday, August 13, 2024 at 9:49:36 AM UTC-7 ethan...@gmail.com wrote:

> Same! When did they stop making them with double top tubes? Do you know if 
> future Atlantis frames will have a double top tube? They look quite nice 
> and sturdy, especially on the larger bikes.
>
> On Aug 12, 2024, at 11:12 AM, Josh C  wrote:
>
> I personally wish they’d bring back the double top tube. I like the look 
> of the green one tho, looked killer on the Platy. 
>
> On Monday, August 12, 2024 at 4:43:28 AM UTC-4 Dan wrote:
>
>> It's beautiful. Looks comfy and capable and just the right balance of 
>> black and silver!
>>
>> On the topic of Appaloosas, and entering the realm of pure speculation:
>> With a slacker head tube angle (using the Atlantis lugs?) and wider tyre 
>> clearance, the Appaloosa sounds very similar indeed to the previous 
>> Atlantis.
>> I wonder if that leaves room for the next Atlantis to shift to something 
>> different?
>>
>> On Sunday 11 August 2024 at 11:31:48 UTC+9:30 trevor@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> [image: IMG_8546.jpg]
>>>
>>> On Saturday, August 10, 2024 at 7:52:50 PM UTC-6 Dan wrote:
>>>
 Not derailing at all! Well done on resisting temptation. I agree with 
 you that the Hog's Back meets a very similar use case to the Joe: an 
 all-round, all-road tourer that can do anything and go anywhere, if 
 slowly. 
 I was eyeing off a Hog's Back before I picked up the Joe! Would you mind 
 sharing photos of your bike - I'd love to see it!

 On Sunday 11 August 2024 at 04:27:12 UTC+9:30 trevor@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> I was vey tempted to get a green one but having thought 
> extensively about it, I think I will keep my Bassi Hog's Back and ride 
> that. Aside from the very long rear end, the reach is pretty similar and 
> its been hard for me to justify selling a whole bike for less than the 
> cost 
> of a frame, especially when I have been quite happy with my Bassi. I 
> don't 
> mean to derail this conversation at all, but I'm happy with myself for 
> resisting such a big temptation. One day Rivendell will take my money, 
> just 
> not this round.
>
> On Saturday, August 10, 2024 at 7:24:58 AM UTC-6 Dan wrote:
>
> Some great sleuthing and info here!
> I’ll add in another one that I’m pretty sure I’m not imagining: the 
> chain stays look a tad shorter. 
>
> On Saturday 10 August 2024 at 22:21:06 UTC+9:30 Dorothy C wrote:
>
> I noticed they got down tube shifter bosses with the upcoming ones. 
> Kind of surprising on a sturdy bike. 
> Here is a picture of my 2016 model sky blue 46cm, a 26” wheel bike, my 
> first Riv bike purchase.
>
>
>
>
> On Saturday, August 10, 2024 at 4:16:17 AM UTC-7 drew.jo...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
> Despite everyone providing fantastic advice regarding my Sam rebuild. 
>  I must admit, I am still incredibly interested in replacing the Sam with 
> a 
> green Joe.
>
> Regarding tire clearance specifically…Grant told me this run of Joes 
> would now match current Atlantis tire clearances.
>
> R,
>
> Drew
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 10, 2024, at 6:27 AM, iamkeith  wrote:
>
> Watching thread, and curious about the same thing - especially since 
> they felt it necessary to get new prototypes. 
>
>
> The geometry chart still shows it having a slightly steeper headtube 
> and shorter top tube than the equivalent Atlantis, which suprises me 
> every 
> time I've ever looked for this info.  (You kind of have to extrapolate, 
> because the respective sizes alternate.)  Will's email said they will be 
> updating the website eventually/soon.
>
> I've asked this before, but can anyone describe how the various 
> versions have evolved over time?  I know the fork legs got stiffer after 
> the first batch, and the double top tube was dropped from the larger 
> sizes, 
> but I'm particularly interested in geometry and tire clearance 
> improvements. 
>
> I have more bikes than I need - especially Rivendells - but still 
> always daydream about that n+1.  The Appaloosa is the model that has the 
> least overlap to the bikes I already have and -  unlike any Atlantis ever 
> - 
>

[RBW] Re: Canti-Rom Complete - 63 cm - California Sale Desired so I Can Deliver It

[James Warren]

Bump - Asking price changed to $1400 delivered if I deliver in person (see 
description below.)

> On Aug 6, 2024, at 5:00 PM, James Warren  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi RBW Forum Friends,
> 
> Photos show a bike that’s been in my large bike collection but has always 
> gotten way too few miles. (I have a collection of Rivs and Bridgestones.) 
> It’s a sport-touring road bike that has even more big-tire versatility due to 
> its cantilever brakes. (38 mm tires fit easily.)  I’ve taken great care of it 
> since 2006 (when I got it via trade for a Heron touring on this forum), and 
> the frame has very few scratches and is in outstanding condition.
> 
> I have a 93 cm PBH, so this frame is about 1 cm too small for me. The long 
> and high Nitto stem in the photos shows how I addressed it and made the frame 
> size work for me. I have many other stems if the buyer wants a different 
> dimension stem swapped in (I could mail that stem later.) The saddle height 
> in the photos is probably a bit lower than my usual 81 cm.
> 
> Asking $1500, with delivery included assuming I deliver it unboxed. Avoiding 
> packing time and shipping is my desire, and I’d like to deliver to the 
> Californian buyer during the week of August 11 through 18 as part of my drive 
> home to Los Angeles from San Francisco. Preference given to buyers for whom 
> shipping is not required. PayPal or Venmo
> 
> Components:
> Dia Compe canti brakes
> Tiagra drop bar brake levers
> Nitto stem
> Nitto Noodle handlebar - 44 cm
> Riv Silver bar-end shifters
> Shimano Ultegra headset
> Suntour XC-Pro crank triple: 46-36-24
> 12-34 SRAM 9-speed cassette
> Dura Ace front derailleur
> Deore rear derailleur
> MKS sneaker pedals
> Thomson seatpost
> Seller San Marcos saddle
> Panaracer Pasela 700x37 tires
> Rear wheel is Lesnik-built: Alex DM18 with LX hub, 36 spokes
> Front wheel has a Sun CR-18 rim and a hub labeled Shimano, 36 spokes
> 
> If interested, email me at:
> jimmacwar...@gmail.com 
> 
> Thank you,
> Jim Warren, long-time Forum member
> 
> Photos, and I have more:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

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Re: [RBW] Re: ISO: 22.2 clamp-on brake cable hanger

[R Shannon]

Hello Huston,

Wish I could help but it’s the 1 inch stem model. Good luck with your
search.

Best,
Rich in ATL

On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 at 6:23 PM, Huston  wrote:

> Rich,
>
> I'm on the hunt for a Paul F.M.  Which version do you have?  I'm
> specifically looking for the 27.2mm seatpost version to replace a Nitto
> that is allowing too much cable flexing during braking.  Thanks for your
> time.
>
> Huston
> Lexington, KY
>
> On Wednesday, August 14, 2024 at 5:35:55 PM UTC-4 RichS wrote:
>
>> Jacob, glad you found a hanger that works for you.
>>
>> Best,
>> Rich in ATL
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 14, 2024 at 5:28 PM Jacob Yosowitz  wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for all the responses. Rich I would’ve taken you up on it, but I
>>> was at the LBS today and bought a 25.4 clamp-on hanger and shims to make it
>>> work with the 22.2 stem.
>>>
>>> *Jacob*
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 14, 2024 at 4:43 PM RichS  wrote:
>>>
 Jacob, if the Paul Funky Monkey is the one you want I have an extra one
 in silver I'll sell you. Like new condition. Say $35 shipped. If interested
 I'll retrive a picture or two and send to you

 Best,
 Rich in ATL

 On Tuesday, August 13, 2024 at 6:32:51 PM UTC-4 jyos...@gmail.com
 wrote:

> Hello! I am trying to find a cable hanger that will clamp on to a 22.2
> nitto quill stem. I recently purchased a sam through the group (photos 
> will
> come when the build is complete!) but it seems the steer tube may have 
> been
> cut down at some point and won't fit a usual cable hanger in the headset.
> So clamp-on it must be. Something akin to the the elusive nitto x
> fairweather cable hanger. Thanks!
>
> Also in search of a nitto drop bar cockpit. I have losco bars and long
> quill nitto technomic  on it at the moment but not sure they'll stay. Will
> consider trades!
>
> Thanks!
> Jacob in midcoast maine
>
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>>>
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Custom Jeff Lyon lightweight steel frameset

[Bill Lindsay]

I'm still winning at only $207.50 (plus shipping).  Now I'm actually 
starting to look it over.  Haha

Do you know what the story is with the fork?  It's got a Ritchey logo in 
it.  Is that a Ritchey fork or some kind of Ritchey crown that Jeff used to 
build a fork?

 BL in EC

On Monday, August 12, 2024 at 6:53:44 PM UTC-7 eliot...@gmail.com wrote:

> Haha that’s awesome Bill. You’re welcome to it at that price if you win. 
> I’d hope for more but it doesn’t fit me and I have other projects that 
> could use the bike funds.
>
> Thanks 
>
> Eliot 
>
> On Mon, Aug 12, 2024 at 3:38 PM Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>
>> I threw a $400 bid at it just for fun, and because it pisses me off that 
>> 4 people already bid $50 or less on it, because they are bottom feeders.  
>> If I win and you don't want to sell it at that price, I'll let you keep 
>> it.  I respect the no-reserve-one-dollar auction to let the market decide 
>> what something is worth.  I hope it goes way up.  
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Monday, August 12, 2024 at 11:47:22 AM UTC-7 eliot...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Hey Mike, I don’t remember getting that request. Sorry about that. I 
>>> don’t have wheels for it any more but would guesstimate 820-830 based on a 
>>> test ride when I bought it and past experience.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 12, 2024 at 11:14 AM Mike Godwin  wrote:
>>>
 Hi Eliot

 Did you ever get an opportunity to put some wheels on and measure the 
 stand over height? 
 Mike SLO CA

 On Monday, August 12, 2024 at 10:40:20 AM UTC-7 eliot...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> No longer available. Listed as an ebay auction. Current winning bid is 
> $2.25. If it fits you don't be shy.
>
> On Wed, Aug 7, 2024 at 8:19 AM Eliot Balogh  
> wrote:
>
>> Price drop to $875 shipped
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 6, 2024 at 2:08 PM Brian Campbell  
>> wrote:
>>
> I have 2, L' avecaise frames from Jeff Lyon. 
>>> The first is set up as a dedicated Rando bike and the other as a 
>>> lighter weight, road bike. 
>>> Both are 59cm ST, 58 cm TT, 700c wheels and can fit 35mm tires and 
>>> fenders with dual pivot brakes.
>>> 28mm, 7-4-7 top tube and 38mm down tubes
>>> Seat & Headtube angle 72.5 degrees
>>> BB drop 78mm
>>> Chainstay Length 44cm
>>> Fork rake 58mm
>>> Both frames weigh just a hair over 6lbs with the 1 1/8 fork included.
>>> I think they ride great and if the frame for sale rides anything 
>>> like mine, I think the buyer will be very pleased.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 6, 2024 at 9:34:55 AM UTC-4 lukeheller wrote:
>>>
 Dang, i love this. 
 I've been after a Lyon or Lyon adjacent.
 Actually called Jess last fall and inquired about a new frame but 
 he was not taking new orders due to aging challenges.
 This seems like a great deal and a great fit for someone!

 If the STA were 72 or slacker, i'd likely gobble this up!


 On Monday, August 5, 2024 at 9:57:20 PM UTC-4 eliot...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> Hey Bill,
>
> I’m waiting to hear back from Jeff Lyon for the details. With the 
> light weight and 435 stays I’m guessing cross vs sport tour. STA is 
> 73, HTA 
> 72, my gross measurement of stack and reach were ~400 +/- 5mm and 
> 600, rear 
> end is 130mm
>
> I’ll see if I can’t get an approximate BB drop with a line level. 
>
> Eliot
>
> On Mon, Aug 5, 2024 at 4:29 PM Bill Lindsay  
> wrote:
>
>> Do you have any idea what it is?  Like, is it a cyclocross 
>> frame?  Is it a gravel frame?  Is it a touring frame?  Any idea of 
>> the 
>> Stack and Reach, or angles, and BB drop?  Over Locknut Dimension in 
>> back?
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Monday, August 5, 2024 at 1:28:30 PM UTC-7 eliot...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I apologize if this isn’t allowed here. Just figured this bunch 
>>> would appreciate it.
>>> Selling this early 2000s custom steel Lyon frameset. I know you 
>>> don’t care about weight but the frameset weighs in at just under 6 
>>> lbs with 
>>> the headset. It has clearance for 40-42mm 700c tires in the front 
>>> and more 
>>> in the back. Cool touches like the integrated cable hanger, fillet 
>>> brazing 
>>> and tube supports.
>>>
>>> 58cm x 58cm CTC. 435mm chainstay. 1in threadless headset (steer 
>>> can be shimmed for 1 1/8) previous owner must have ran some massive 
>>> tires 
>>> because it’s lost some paint from tire rub. It’s been sanded and 
>>> painted 
>>> over with touch up (sorry I couldn’t get a match). Fortunat

Re: [RBW] Re: Custom Jeff Lyon lightweight steel frameset

[Eliot Balogh]

Heck of a deal :p

I’m happy to clarify with Jeff. My guess is Ritchey crown but we shall see.

On Wed, Aug 14, 2024 at 6:19 PM Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> I'm still winning at only $207.50 (plus shipping).  Now I'm actually
> starting to look it over.  Haha
>
> Do you know what the story is with the fork?  It's got a Ritchey logo in
> it.  Is that a Ritchey fork or some kind of Ritchey crown that Jeff used to
> build a fork?
>
>  BL in EC
>
> On Monday, August 12, 2024 at 6:53:44 PM UTC-7 eliot...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Haha that’s awesome Bill. You’re welcome to it at that price if you win.
>> I’d hope for more but it doesn’t fit me and I have other projects that
>> could use the bike funds.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Eliot
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 12, 2024 at 3:38 PM Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>>
>>> I threw a $400 bid at it just for fun, and because it pisses me off that
>>> 4 people already bid $50 or less on it, because they are bottom feeders.
>>> If I win and you don't want to sell it at that price, I'll let you keep
>>> it.  I respect the no-reserve-one-dollar auction to let the market decide
>>> what something is worth.  I hope it goes way up.
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>> On Monday, August 12, 2024 at 11:47:22 AM UTC-7 eliot...@gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hey Mike, I don’t remember getting that request. Sorry about that. I
 don’t have wheels for it any more but would guesstimate 820-830 based on a
 test ride when I bought it and past experience.

 On Mon, Aug 12, 2024 at 11:14 AM Mike Godwin 
 wrote:

> Hi Eliot
>
> Did you ever get an opportunity to put some wheels on and measure the
> stand over height?
> Mike SLO CA
>
> On Monday, August 12, 2024 at 10:40:20 AM UTC-7 eliot...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> No longer available. Listed as an ebay auction. Current winning bid
>> is $2.25. If it fits you don't be shy.
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 7, 2024 at 8:19 AM Eliot Balogh 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Price drop to $875 shipped
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 6, 2024 at 2:08 PM Brian Campbell 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>> I have 2, L' avecaise frames from Jeff Lyon.
 The first is set up as a dedicated Rando bike and the other as a
 lighter weight, road bike.
 Both are 59cm ST, 58 cm TT, 700c wheels and can fit 35mm tires and
 fenders with dual pivot brakes.
 28mm, 7-4-7 top tube and 38mm down tubes
 Seat & Headtube angle 72.5 degrees
 BB drop 78mm
 Chainstay Length 44cm
 Fork rake 58mm
 Both frames weigh just a hair over 6lbs with the 1 1/8 fork
 included.
 I think they ride great and if the frame for sale rides anything
 like mine, I think the buyer will be very pleased.


 On Tuesday, August 6, 2024 at 9:34:55 AM UTC-4 lukeheller wrote:

> Dang, i love this.
> I've been after a Lyon or Lyon adjacent.
> Actually called Jess last fall and inquired about a new frame but
> he was not taking new orders due to aging challenges.
> This seems like a great deal and a great fit for someone!
>
> If the STA were 72 or slacker, i'd likely gobble this up!
>
>
> On Monday, August 5, 2024 at 9:57:20 PM UTC-4 eliot...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> Hey Bill,
>>
>> I’m waiting to hear back from Jeff Lyon for the details. With the
>> light weight and 435 stays I’m guessing cross vs sport tour. STA is 
>> 73, HTA
>> 72, my gross measurement of stack and reach were ~400 +/- 5mm and 
>> 600, rear
>> end is 130mm
>>
>> I’ll see if I can’t get an approximate BB drop with a line level.
>>
>> Eliot
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 5, 2024 at 4:29 PM Bill Lindsay 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Do you have any idea what it is?  Like, is it a cyclocross
>>> frame?  Is it a gravel frame?  Is it a touring frame?  Any idea of 
>>> the
>>> Stack and Reach, or angles, and BB drop?  Over Locknut Dimension in 
>>> back?
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>> On Monday, August 5, 2024 at 1:28:30 PM UTC-7 eliot...@gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I apologize if this isn’t allowed here. Just figured this bunch
 would appreciate it.
 Selling this early 2000s custom steel Lyon frameset. I know you
 don’t care about weight but the frameset weighs in at just under 6 
 lbs with
 the headset. It has clearance for 40-42mm 700c tires in the front 
 and more
 in the back. Cool touches like the integrated cable hanger, fillet 
 brazing
 and tube supports.

 58cm x 58cm CTC. 435mm chainstay. 1in threadless headset (steer

Re: [RBW] Re: Anodized Silver vs Polished Components. Which do you prefer?

[Steve]

Ryan, regarding the worn anodized finish on the cranks; that's when it's 
time to strip and polish them. They'll. look better than ever, though it is 
a bit of a project.

On Wednesday, August 14, 2024 at 10:34:31 AM UTC-4 Ryan wrote:

> Well...thanks all...I learned something(as I usually do in this 
> group)maybe thinking about it would have led me to the conclusion that 
> silver-anodizing is more durable than simple polishing because the 
> anodizing is a protective coating. But it doesn't  last forever. My late 
> partner took off his 90's XTR cranks from a 90s Specialized carbon S-works 
> Stumpjumper that delaminated at  the driveside chainstay(alas) and put them 
> on my old PX10 SS...and you can see that the anodizing has worn off on the 
> crank arms from use. Functionally , they're just fine however. 
>
> On Wednesday, August 14, 2024 at 5:02:16 AM UTC-5 Garth wrote:
>
>> To me polished to be sustainably sparkly is best reserved for 
>> raw/unfinished aluminum parts. I have Specialized Stage FW hubs from the 
>> 80's that are that and with some simple hand polishing using Blue Magic and 
>> a rag become shimmery rotating hourglasses. Most vintage derailleurs are 
>> raw also and take to hand polishing well. Velocity NoBS rims are raw and 
>> would take to polishing too. Yes it requires periodic polishing to keep it 
>> that way, but to me hand polished parts look better than factory polished. 
>> There are few if any new raw/unfinished parts these though, save removing 
>> factory black anodising  and polishing the raw finish. Otherwise anodised 
>> silver is acceptable for parts. I must say, seatposts are especially lovely 
>> when hand polished, as are stems, as are cranks . oh hell .. what 
>> isn't ? Ahahahahahaaa !  
>>
>> When I hand polish I dont set out to get into every nook and be overly 
>> detailed about it. "Good enough" is the motto. It's like shaving with 
>> double edge safety razors, the "good enough" shave is easy peasy and fun 
>> and remarkable durable. 
>> On Tuesday, August 13, 2024 at 7:24:36 PM UTC-4 Ed Fausto wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Michael,
>>> I tend to agree with Nick and Peter.
>>> I previously bought brand new polished Son hub and Cliffhanger rim which 
>>> after 1 year of use have tarnished which regular cleaning would not make 
>>> any difference.
>>> So all my succeeding purchases where silver anodized which held up 
>>> better even after prolonged use.
>>>
>>> Just based on my personal experience.
>>> Ed Fausto
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, August 14, 2024 at 6:13:32 AM UTC+8 peter...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 In fact, anodized will look a whole lot better a few years down the 
 road if you ride year 'round on roads that get salted in the winter. I 
 tend 
 to ride my fat tire bike in winter which has a B&M IQ-X headlight. The Riv 
 has an Edelux II polished, and rarely if ever gets road salt on it.

 On Tue, Aug 13, 2024 at 12:05 AM Nick Payne  wrote:

> Anodised will look a bit better a few years down the road than 
> polished.
>
> On the Mason that I most recently built up, I had no choice of colour 
> for a lot of the components I was using - e.g. C-F rims are black, SRAM 
> AXS 
> shifters/derailleurs are black, the Shimano XT M737 cranks I had are 
> silver 
> anodised, as was the Ritchey seatpost, but I decided on a bit of colour 
> co-ordination to go with the Orange BxB saddlebag I already had and would 
> be using, so I fitted orange Hope disc calipers and used orange handlebar 
> tape.
>
> Nick Payne
>
> -- 
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>  
> 
> .
>


 -- 
 Peter White

>>>

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Re: [RBW] Cameras On Bikes

[Ted Durant]

> On Aug 14, 2024, at 9:44 PM, Chester  wrote:
> 
> So I've been riding around with two pocket cameras, which is kind of silly 
> but I rationalize it by telling myself that 28mm and 40mm are very different 
> focal lengths, and they both fit together in a stem bag.
> 

I like it! I really like those two focal lengths, and the cameras being so 
small makes it perfectly reasonable to carry them both. Definitely want to keep 
the LCD screens separated. You should be able to find some small fleece sacks 
that are close to the right size. Or just cut a piece from an old t-shirt the 
right size to do a burrito wrap around one of them.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA

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[RBW] Re: Getting a new puppy!

[Stephen Durfee]

Thanks for sharing this Les!   Looks like a fun time and so glad you were 
able to go. 

On Wednesday, August 14, 2024 at 6:23:46 PM UTC-7 les.yo...@gmail.com wrote:

> Just want to say thank you to Chef Durfee and his new puppy for giving me 
> his Angel Island Sunrise campsite reservation. It was a great Bay Area S24O 
> destination!
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Canti-Rom Complete - 63 cm - California Sale Desired so I Can Deliver It

[DTL]

Damn if i lived in Cali! (and not Australia) Ha.

On Thursday, August 15, 2024 at 10:05:32 AM UTC+10 Jimmy Warren wrote:

> Bump - Asking price changed to $1400 delivered if I deliver in person (see 
> description below.)
>
> On Aug 6, 2024, at 5:00 PM, James Warren  wrote:
>
> 
>
> Hi RBW Forum Friends,
>
> Photos show a bike that’s been in my large bike collection but has always 
> gotten way too few miles. (I have a collection of Rivs and Bridgestones.) 
> It’s a sport-touring road bike that has even more big-tire versatility due 
> to its cantilever brakes. (38 mm tires fit easily.)  I’ve taken great care 
> of it since 2006 (when I got it via trade for a Heron touring on this 
> forum), and the frame has very few scratches and is in outstanding 
> condition.
>
> I have a 93 cm PBH, so this frame is about 1 cm too small for me. The long 
> and high Nitto stem in the photos shows how I addressed it and made the 
> frame size work for me. I have many other stems if the buyer wants a 
> different dimension stem swapped in (I could mail that stem later.) The 
> saddle height in the photos is probably a bit lower than my usual 81 cm.
>
> Asking $1500, with delivery included assuming I deliver it unboxed. 
> Avoiding packing time and shipping is my desire, and I’d like to deliver to 
> the Californian buyer during the week of August 11 through 18 as part of 
> my drive home to Los Angeles from San Francisco. Preference given to buyers 
> for whom shipping is not required. PayPal or Venmo
>
> Components:
> Dia Compe canti brakes
> Tiagra drop bar brake levers
> Nitto stem
> Nitto Noodle handlebar - 44 cm
> Riv Silver bar-end shifters
> Shimano Ultegra headset
> Suntour XC-Pro crank triple: 46-36-24
> 12-34 SRAM 9-speed cassette
> Dura Ace front derailleur
> Deore rear derailleur
> MKS sneaker pedals
> Thomson seatpost
> Seller San Marcos saddle
> Panaracer Pasela 700x37 tires
> Rear wheel is Lesnik-built: Alex DM18 with LX hub, 36 spokes
> Front wheel has a Sun CR-18 rim and a hub labeled Shimano, 36 spokes
>
> If interested, email me at:
> jimmac...@gmail.com
>
> Thank you,
> Jim Warren, long-time Forum member
>
> Photos, and I have more:
>
> 
> 
>
> 
>
>
>
>

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