[RBW] Re: Comfy aluminum frames?

[alan lavine]

Appreciate your thoughts, everyone.

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 12:48:17 AM UTC-4 Will M wrote:

> Alan, Jan Heine's 2021 book, *All Road Bicycle Revolution*, has some good 
> reading on this topic ("characteristics of a great frame can be obtained 
> from all materials"; p. 174) that aligns with Sheldon Brown's writing 
> from 20 years ago  ("the 
> reality is that you can make a good bike frame out of any of these metals, 
> with any desired riding qualities, by selecting appropriate tubing 
> diameters, wall thicknesses and frame geometry").  They both argue that the 
> "feel" of a frame is influenced more by frame design than by the material 
> itself. 
>
> This doesn't answer your question.  :-)
>
> I'm not sure I have an answer.  All I know is that my aluminum Yuba Sweet 
> Curry cargo bike is the stiffest thing on the planet (to give 300-lb cargo 
> capacity; look at all the aluminum trusses 
> 
> !).  
>
> And that I agree with Matthias: my "forever bike" is also a C'dale 
> adventure touring bike (this T1000 
> ; the aluminum CAAD2 
> touring frame) that turns 25 in December.  I had posted previously 
> 
>  
> about how I am slowly turning it into an Atlantis, having drunk too much 
> Kool-Aid in Walnut Creek.  But I must say that the T1000 rides better than 
> any RBW bike that I've owned.  Blasphemy, but there it is.  Something about 
> its chromoly fork's geometry gives it magical handling.  If only it had the 
> Atlantis's clearances.  I am waiting for the aluminum to fail so I can get 
> in line for the next Atlantis batch. :-)
>
> Will M
> NYC
>
>
> On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 5:32:56 PM UTC-4 Nick Payne wrote:
>
>> As I said in another thread (
>> https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/tAas6urcOwg/m/KW63fr0LCQAJ), 
>> modern aluminium frames can be quite comfortable. Last week I did back to 
>> back rides on successive days over the same chipseal roads on that Al bike 
>> and on my Riv custom. I can't say that the Riv felt any more comfortable or 
>> better handling. The Al frame was running Conti GP Urbans and the Riv Rene 
>> Herse Bon Jon Pass, both nominally 35mm tyres.
>>
>> Nick Payne
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Ride Reports (PNW and France)

[Kyle Cotchett]

Haha no way, fancy finding you here Kieran! That was an awesomely gruesome
day. Glad I got to meet you all. Gram, Jaytee, and I are definitely
returning next year. Hopefully I'll catch you out there again! I am hoping
to instigate some more lively camping the night after the ride ( •̀ᴗ•́ )و ̑̑

Dang that sounds like it would be a sweet tour. The riding out here has
been great. I wish we had enough time to make it that far! We got one lined
up to head west to Normandy over 5 days. I'll have to report back on that
route.

Kyle

On Wed, Aug 9, 2023 at 8:27 PM Kieran J  wrote:

> Thanks for posting Kyle - these are great.
>
> I noticed your Cascadia Super Gravel post and then realized I rode a lot
> of the route with you and Jaytee and the big party pace gang. I'm the tall
> guy on the pink Black Mountain in one of the pics. Such an awesome event!
>
> Enjoy your time in France. One of my bucket list trips is cycling from
> Paris to the south, or even to Barcelona maybe. Hoping to do that in the
> next couple of years.
>
> Kieran
> Victoria, BC
>
> On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 11:36:50 AM UTC-7 kyleco...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Hey John!
>>
>> Someone else just messaged me too about setting up a ride while I'm
>> out here! It would be sweet to get a route in together. Maybe sometime in
>> early September?
>>
>> Kyle
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 6, 2023 at 6:01 PM John Johnson 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for the ride report, Kyle.
>>>
>>> I live not far from fontainebleau. The weather the last week or two in
>>> July was definitely not great. Sorry that was during your trip.
>>>
>>> For what it's worth, the Scandiberique route (eurovelo 3) runs right
>>> through the area and there are some great rides along old canal route
>>> paths. The portion just south of Fontainebleau (Nemours to 'Bleau) is
>>> really lovely.
>>>
>>> And open invite to anyone on the forum to look me up if you're ever in
>>> the region.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> John
>>> On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 7:56:21 PM UTC+2 wls...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 Kyle - Enjoyed the write ups. Keep 'em coming!

 On Friday, August 4, 2023 at 12:32:20 PM UTC-4 Dustin wrote:

> Kyle,
>
> Good looking site. Thanks for sharing
>
> Dustin
>
> On Aug 4, 2023, at 12:09 PM, Kyle Cotchett 
> wrote:
>
> Hey all!
>
>
> I've been messing around with writing some ride reports on my website
> . For
> the most part, they are around the Pacific Northwest. My girlfriend and I
> are taking significant time off work and moved to Paris for summer/fall. 
> We
> brought our bikes with us, and I'll be continuing to write up some rides
> here in France! I thought I'd share them here with ya'll to enjoy! Thanks
> for reading!
>
> -Kyle
>
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>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> KYLE V. COTCHETT
>>
>> An urban planner of sorts
>>
>> kyleco...@gmail.com
>>
>> (650) 863-0925
>>
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(650) 863-0925

[RBW] Re: A College Clem

[lconley]

A hard question. 50 years ago, I left for college and rode a Gitane Tour de 
France (Reynolds 531 frame, silk sew-up tires, mostly Campagnolo 
components) to class. I locked it up in the bushes (bike racks were not a 
thing at that point in time) and carried my books in my Boy Scout Yucca 
backpack. Two years later I was hit by an on-duty police officer. The frame 
was bent, but I was unhurt. I used the money that I got from the officer 
and selling the parts to buy a Schwinn Paramount P-15 (Reynold 531 frame, 
all Campagnolo except for the brakes). I continued to ride the Paramount to 
class until I graduated in 1978. When I went back to college from 1982 
until 1987, I rode the Paramount, but now I had racks and bags and fenders 
and a bottom bracket mounted Sanyo generator. By this time there were bike 
racks to lock it to. I never locked the bike at night, I kept it inside at 
night. I still have the Paramount.

I might not do the same today for one basic reason - battery powered 
cutters with carbide blades, available cheap from your local Harbor Freight 
store. They can cut through anything. 

The basic strategy today seems to be to make your bike look worse that the 
other bikes in the rack and better locked. Rustoleum makes peel-off paint 
that you could camouflage the bike with (make it ugly and look rusty, add a 
few stickers), paint the stem, handlebars, hubs, some of the spokes and 
seatpost (I would avoid Barbie pink for the time being).  Peel it off after 
college to find the pristine Rivendell paint and aluminum below. You could 
even peel off the paint and change paint schemes occasionally. Riding a 
Rivendell *is* better than riding an ordinary bike.

Laing
Delray Beach FL

On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 10:54:39 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> It nearly kills me to say it, but my older son will be heading to college 
> in a year. Freshman aren’t to bring cars to campus, so that leaves buses, 
> bikes, and your own two feet for transportation. My boys have grown up 
> riding Clem Hs; this son rides a 52 cm cast-off from my husband (who 
> doesn’t ride, sigh). 
>
> My 6’3” Dad had a blue 59 cm Clem on order when he died suddenly in 2020, 
> and his blue Clem has sat, boxed, waiting for my boy to grow into it. I 
> lugged the gargantuan box up from the basement last week to see how if the 
> bike would fit. “Now that I’ve obtained optimal height,” my son is fond of 
> saying… 
>
> Anyway, he’s 6’1” now (likely still growing) and I need him to decide if 
> he wants to stick with his old Clem H (that he was fond of) or settle into 
> this Clem L. Because whichever bike he chooses is getting new wheels, dyno 
> and fenders and going to college with him. At first he was opposed to the 
> idea of a new Clem; he liked his old Clem, thought it looked cool. But 
> after the - as he calls it - Big Bike was assembled, he really began to 
> like it. “It looks elegant,” he said. It really does, all long and lithe, 
> in blue and silver. He put his saddle and bags on the bike and we test rode 
> it tonight. He said, “I am really liking the Big Bike. I like that my knees 
> don’t have anything to hit (geez, were his knees hitting his bars?!) and it 
> looks elegant. It feels more at home now that I have my old saddle on it.” 
>
> I have mixed feelings about sending him to college with this bike, because 
> it’s so nice. I also doubt he’ll be able to get it on a bus bike rack - and 
> I have no idea how often he will want to do that. His bike life is totally 
> unknown at this point. All I know is that I’m getting him dyno because the 
> kid has never remembered to charge a light in his LIFE and I will not sleep 
> at night without it.The 52 takes 650b wheels and the 59 takes 700c, so I 
> don’t want to buy the wheels until I know which bike he really wants. But 
> as of now, he wants his new bike.
>
> I know people will say we should just get a beater. I know why that would 
> be advisable, but I also hate to think of a Clem languishing when it could 
> be serving a noble purpose. I’d love for him and his Clem to journey 
> through undergrad together.
>
> I am wondering…has anyone gone to college or sent their kid to college 
> with a Clem? What do you have to say about it? Photos in the next post…
> Leah
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: WTB/WTT: 60cm Platypus frameset for my 64 Clem L

[Justin Kennedy]

It's a beauty! And in good hands. 

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 9:07:33 AM UTC-4 J Schwartz wrote:

> If Justin ever wants his old Chev frame back, he knows where to find me 😉
> [image: IMG_0441 2.jpg]
>
> On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 1:43:06 PM UTC-4 Justin Kennedy wrote:
>
>> James said likely October before the new ones are in. They're coming in 
>> Sergio Green and Dark Gold, both frames and completes. Unclear specs on the 
>> latter but maybe something similar to Clem completes? I'm going to switch 
>> most of the components from my Clem for the build. Hopefully some pics to 
>> share soon. 
>>
>> On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 1:30:55 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Well, I for one, am glad to hear it. Waiting for the next round of 
>>> Platypuses is probably going to take too long, and it’s still riding season 
>>> NOW. So, I’m thrilled for you and I hope you will post photos and give us 
>>> your thorough review!
>>> Leah
>>>
>>> On Aug 10, 2023, at 9:52 AM, Justin Kennedy  wrote:
>>>
>>> Ended up ordering that 60cm Platy from C&L. Will keep you posted with 
>>> the build etc. Selling my Clem to a friend. Cheers everyone. 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 8:23:53 PM UTC-4 jaredwilson wrote:
>>>
 Love those green Cheviuts, something about the blue accents really 
 works.

 Justin, best of luck with your search!

 jared

 On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 5:06:34 PM UTC-7 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:

> [image: 12817569245_6446d68d56_b.jpg]
>
> On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 4:39:12 PM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:
>
>> That Cheviot is HOT! That bike had one of the best headbadges.
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 7:34:30 PM UTC-4 krhe...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> As far as club rides are concerned for and with the Clem, I would 
>>> say yes, if most everyone in the group is moving at a slow pace. 
>>>
>>> Kim Hetzel. 
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 4:28:51 PM UTC-7 Kim H. wrote:
>>>
 @Doug - I share with you in very similar view points, regarding 
 riding my Clem, too. I ride solo. I am not in a big hurry to get where 
 I am 
 going. I enjoy the ride. Yes, it is a heavy bike. I do not know how 
 much it 
 weighs. However, I am not bothered by the weight, because of it is 
 truly 
 the most comfortable bicycle for me as a senior cyclist; an upright 
 riding 
 position, low gears, a long wheelbase, stable handling and the Bosco 
 bars 
 are most ideal. 

 For the record, I have no other experience riding any other 
 Rivendell bicycles to compare my Clem with. I do not feel the need to, 
 because my Clem suits my needs extraordinarily well. 
 Kim Hetzel
 Yelm, WA. 

 On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 10:58:55 AM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote:

> Speed is not an issue for me and my ole Clem as I ride almost 
> exclusively solo. My question about Clem/Platypus was again in jest. 
> Leah 
> has ridden both more than most and so her opinion and comparison has 
> credibility to me. That being said, I like the style of the Clem 
> better 
> which is obviously the most subjective take one can make between two 
> bicycles. Me and ole Clem just mosey down the road and whatever speed 
> is 
> comfortable and have a jolly ole time doing it.
> Doug
>
> On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 1:28:30 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Johnny, 
>>
>> Her Clem and Platypus (the one she uses on club rides) have 
>> similar builds (including the wheelsets) so you can take that out of 
>> the 
>> equation. The frames are not the same, Platy is a lighter-tubed 
>> pavement-oriented bike patterned after the Sam Hillborne. I'm quite 
>> sure 
>> she's right that head to head the Platy is going to be a bit easier 
>> to push 
>> hard in a group, and it doesn't have to be a major difference to be 
>> the 
>> difference between keeping up and feeling like you're struggling in 
>> a group 
>> of carbon dropbar bikes. Which I think is all she's saying, it's her 
>> opinion from her experience. Can you club ride a Clem? Sure, knock 
>> yourself 
>> out! It's just an opinion from someone who owns both bikes. 
>>
>> Anyway, somebody sell Justin a 60cm Platy! 
>>
>> Joe Bernard 
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 5:47:19 AM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>
>>> Haha! You can indeed be shocking. My point is that the Platy is 
>>> not really a club rider. It can be made to be closer to one but you 
>>> don't 
>>> have it dec

[RBW] Wheel Builder

[Josh C]

I could use a recommendation for a good wheel builder. I've used 
prowheelbuilder.com in the past and have no complaints. Not sure how I 
landed on them. Just curious if there is another business that I should be 
looking into? I'm located in Indianapolis as well, and would prefer sending 
business to a local or at least midwest company if possible.  

I'm looking for a set of 700c wheels for my Atlantis. I'm thinking I'll do 
velocity cliffhangers with a SON up front and a nice rear hub. The rear is 
not yet totally decided as I like quiet hubs but there are not many options 
in rim brake, 36-40h hubs these days. I've got an onyx silent hub on my 
crust and love it but they only go up to 32h and I'd prefer 36 or 40 as I'm 
a big dude. Which is why I'm thinking about a white industry (loud as they 
come) rear hub in 36 or 40h. 

Anyway. I'd like to hear about your preferred wheel builders. 

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[RBW] WTB/ISO: Erlen saddle bag support v2.0

[Taylor M]

Anyone have one they'd consider selling?

Thanks!

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[RBW] Re: Wheel Builder

[Johnny Alien]

I don't know any midwest wheelbuilders to suggest but I can comment on the 
rear hub. I got some wheels build by Rich at Rivendell and we paired the 
Deore hubs with the Cliffhangers. He likes the hubs a bunch and they have 
been great for me. Very quiet. No need to spend a ton to get a really well 
made quiet hub.

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 9:13:50 AM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:

> I could use a recommendation for a good wheel builder. I've used 
> prowheelbuilder.com in the past and have no complaints. Not sure how I 
> landed on them. Just curious if there is another business that I should be 
> looking into? I'm located in Indianapolis as well, and would prefer sending 
> business to a local or at least midwest company if possible.  
>
> I'm looking for a set of 700c wheels for my Atlantis. I'm thinking I'll do 
> velocity cliffhangers with a SON up front and a nice rear hub. The rear is 
> not yet totally decided as I like quiet hubs but there are not many options 
> in rim brake, 36-40h hubs these days. I've got an onyx silent hub on my 
> crust and love it but they only go up to 32h and I'd prefer 36 or 40 as I'm 
> a big dude. Which is why I'm thinking about a white industry (loud as they 
> come) rear hub in 36 or 40h. 
>
> Anyway. I'd like to hear about your preferred wheel builders. 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Wheel Builder

[Victor Hanson]

Gravy Wheels,

King Kog or '

Dustinthewind bicycle repair.

On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 7:04 AM Johnny Alien 
wrote:

> I don't know any midwest wheelbuilders to suggest but I can comment on the
> rear hub. I got some wheels build by Rich at Rivendell and we paired the
> Deore hubs with the Cliffhangers. He likes the hubs a bunch and they have
> been great for me. Very quiet. No need to spend a ton to get a really well
> made quiet hub.
>
> On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 9:13:50 AM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:
>
>> I could use a recommendation for a good wheel builder. I've used
>> prowheelbuilder.com in the past and have no complaints. Not sure how I
>> landed on them. Just curious if there is another business that I should be
>> looking into? I'm located in Indianapolis as well, and would prefer sending
>> business to a local or at least midwest company if possible.
>>
>> I'm looking for a set of 700c wheels for my Atlantis. I'm thinking I'll
>> do velocity cliffhangers with a SON up front and a nice rear hub. The rear
>> is not yet totally decided as I like quiet hubs but there are not many
>> options in rim brake, 36-40h hubs these days. I've got an onyx silent hub
>> on my crust and love it but they only go up to 32h and I'd prefer 36 or 40
>> as I'm a big dude. Which is why I'm thinking about a white industry (loud
>> as they come) rear hub in 36 or 40h.
>>
>> Anyway. I'd like to hear about your preferred wheel builders.
>>
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> 
> .
>


-- 
*VIctor R. Hanson*
*Gen Mgr*
*Schmier Industrial Properties*
*o:  510-652-0800*
*c:  510-207-8593*

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Re: [RBW] Re: Wheel Builder

[Josh C]

Thanks Victor. 

Johnny, 
I've had loads of Deore hubs and currently have them on my Atlantis wheel 
set. They are a good option just not on the same level as Onyx or White Ind.

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 10:27:00 AM UTC-4 vhans...@gmail.com wrote:

> Gravy Wheels, 
>
> King Kog or '
>
> Dustinthewind bicycle repair. 
>
> On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 7:04 AM Johnny Alien  wrote:
>
>> I don't know any midwest wheelbuilders to suggest but I can comment on 
>> the rear hub. I got some wheels build by Rich at Rivendell and we paired 
>> the Deore hubs with the Cliffhangers. He likes the hubs a bunch and they 
>> have been great for me. Very quiet. No need to spend a ton to get a really 
>> well made quiet hub.
>>
>> On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 9:13:50 AM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:
>>
>>> I could use a recommendation for a good wheel builder. I've used 
>>> prowheelbuilder.com in the past and have no complaints. Not sure how I 
>>> landed on them. Just curious if there is another business that I should be 
>>> looking into? I'm located in Indianapolis as well, and would prefer sending 
>>> business to a local or at least midwest company if possible.  
>>>
>>> I'm looking for a set of 700c wheels for my Atlantis. I'm thinking I'll 
>>> do velocity cliffhangers with a SON up front and a nice rear hub. The rear 
>>> is not yet totally decided as I like quiet hubs but there are not many 
>>> options in rim brake, 36-40h hubs these days. I've got an onyx silent hub 
>>> on my crust and love it but they only go up to 32h and I'd prefer 36 or 40 
>>> as I'm a big dude. Which is why I'm thinking about a white industry (loud 
>>> as they come) rear hub in 36 or 40h. 
>>>
>>> Anyway. I'd like to hear about your preferred wheel builders. 
>>>
>> -- 
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
> *VIctor R. Hanson*
> *Gen Mgr*
> *Schmier Industrial Properties*
> *o:  510-652-0800 <(510)%20652-0800>*
> *c:  510-207-8593 <(510)%20207-8593>*
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Wheel Builder

[Josh C]

Also, oddly enough Silver hubs are gone from the Riv site. Anyone know the 
story there? 

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 11:26:15 AM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:

> Thanks Victor. 
>
> Johnny, 
> I've had loads of Deore hubs and currently have them on my Atlantis wheel 
> set. They are a good option just not on the same level as Onyx or White Ind.
>
> On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 10:27:00 AM UTC-4 vhans...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Gravy Wheels, 
>>
>> King Kog or '
>>
>> Dustinthewind bicycle repair. 
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 7:04 AM Johnny Alien  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I don't know any midwest wheelbuilders to suggest but I can comment on 
>>> the rear hub. I got some wheels build by Rich at Rivendell and we paired 
>>> the Deore hubs with the Cliffhangers. He likes the hubs a bunch and they 
>>> have been great for me. Very quiet. No need to spend a ton to get a really 
>>> well made quiet hub.
>>>
>>> On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 9:13:50 AM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:
>>>
 I could use a recommendation for a good wheel builder. I've used 
 prowheelbuilder.com in the past and have no complaints. Not sure how I 
 landed on them. Just curious if there is another business that I should be 
 looking into? I'm located in Indianapolis as well, and would prefer 
 sending 
 business to a local or at least midwest company if possible.  

 I'm looking for a set of 700c wheels for my Atlantis. I'm thinking I'll 
 do velocity cliffhangers with a SON up front and a nice rear hub. The rear 
 is not yet totally decided as I like quiet hubs but there are not many 
 options in rim brake, 36-40h hubs these days. I've got an onyx silent hub 
 on my crust and love it but they only go up to 32h and I'd prefer 36 or 40 
 as I'm a big dude. Which is why I'm thinking about a white industry (loud 
 as they come) rear hub in 36 or 40h. 

 Anyway. I'd like to hear about your preferred wheel builders. 

>>> -- 
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>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/31480b39-f0a4-4cb2-9c71-76ebb8b00947n%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> *VIctor R. Hanson*
>> *Gen Mgr*
>> *Schmier Industrial Properties*
>> *o:  510-652-0800 <(510)%20652-0800>*
>> *c:  510-207-8593 <(510)%20207-8593>*
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Wheel Builder

[Johnny Alien]

I don't remember what happened to them or why they were discontinued. I 
know that not too too long ago RIch had some stock that he would use on 
some of his build to order stuff if you wanted but it would have to be done 
through him AND I have no idea if they still exist. No 40 but they did come 
in 36 for the rear.

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 11:33:20 AM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:

> Also, oddly enough Silver hubs are gone from the Riv site. Anyone know the 
> story there? 
>
> On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 11:26:15 AM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:
>
>> Thanks Victor. 
>>
>> Johnny, 
>> I've had loads of Deore hubs and currently have them on my Atlantis wheel 
>> set. They are a good option just not on the same level as Onyx or White Ind.
>>
>> On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 10:27:00 AM UTC-4 vhans...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Gravy Wheels, 
>>>
>>> King Kog or '
>>>
>>> Dustinthewind bicycle repair. 
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 7:04 AM Johnny Alien  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I don't know any midwest wheelbuilders to suggest but I can comment on 
 the rear hub. I got some wheels build by Rich at Rivendell and we paired 
 the Deore hubs with the Cliffhangers. He likes the hubs a bunch and they 
 have been great for me. Very quiet. No need to spend a ton to get a really 
 well made quiet hub.

 On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 9:13:50 AM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:

> I could use a recommendation for a good wheel builder. I've used 
> prowheelbuilder.com in the past and have no complaints. Not sure how 
> I landed on them. Just curious if there is another business that I should 
> be looking into? I'm located in Indianapolis as well, and would prefer 
> sending business to a local or at least midwest company if possible.  
>
> I'm looking for a set of 700c wheels for my Atlantis. I'm thinking 
> I'll do velocity cliffhangers with a SON up front and a nice rear hub. 
> The 
> rear is not yet totally decided as I like quiet hubs but there are not 
> many 
> options in rim brake, 36-40h hubs these days. I've got an onyx silent hub 
> on my crust and love it but they only go up to 32h and I'd prefer 36 or 
> 40 
> as I'm a big dude. Which is why I'm thinking about a white industry (loud 
> as they come) rear hub in 36 or 40h. 
>
> Anyway. I'd like to hear about your preferred wheel builders. 
>
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 .

>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> *VIctor R. Hanson*
>>> *Gen Mgr*
>>> *Schmier Industrial Properties*
>>> *o:  510-652-0800 <(510)%20652-0800>*
>>> *c:  510-207-8593 <(510)%20207-8593>*
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Wheel Builder

[Keith Paugh]

I had some wheels built earlier this year with a Son front and a Silver rear hub. I think they might just be out of stock? 🤞I’ve been really happy it.(Rich was really fun to work with btw)k.On Aug 11, 2023, at 8:56 AM, Johnny Alien  wrote:I don't remember what happened to them or why they were discontinued. I know that not too too long ago RIch had some stock that he would use on some of his build to order stuff if you wanted but it would have to be done through him AND I have no idea if they still exist. No 40 but they did come in 36 for the rear.On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 11:33:20 AM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:Also, oddly enough Silver hubs are gone from the Riv site. Anyone know the story there? On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 11:26:15 AM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:Thanks Victor. Johnny, I've had loads of Deore hubs and currently have them on my Atlantis wheel set. They are a good option just not on the same level as Onyx or White Ind.On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 10:27:00 AM UTC-4 vhans...@gmail.com wrote:Gravy Wheels, King Kog or 'Dustinthewind bicycle repair. On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 7:04 AM Johnny Alien  wrote:I don't know any midwest wheelbuilders to suggest but I can comment on the rear hub. I got some wheels build by Rich at Rivendell and we paired the Deore hubs with the Cliffhangers. He likes the hubs a bunch and they have been great for me. Very quiet. No need to spend a ton to get a really well made quiet hub.On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 9:13:50 AM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:I could use a recommendation for a good wheel builder. I've used prowheelbuilder.com in the past and have no complaints. Not sure how I landed on them. Just curious if there is another business that I should be looking into? I'm located in Indianapolis as well, and would prefer sending business to a local or at least midwest company if possible.  I'm looking for a set of 700c wheels for my Atlantis. I'm thinking I'll do velocity cliffhangers with a SON up front and a nice rear hub. The rear is not yet totally decided as I like quiet hubs but there are not many options in rim brake, 36-40h hubs these days. I've got an onyx silent hub on my crust and love it but they only go up to 32h and I'd prefer 36 or 40 as I'm a big dude. Which is why I'm thinking about a white industry (loud as they come) rear hub in 36 or 40h. Anyway. I'd like to hear about your preferred wheel builders. 



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Re: [RBW] Re: Wheel Builder

[Will M]

@Josh: Rich Lesnick built up a Velocity Dyad rim around a Silver 135mm hub 
for me in January or February this year.  No mention at all about the hub 
being an endangered species, and we talked at length.  (Assume supply 
woes?)  

@Keith: Concur about Rich being "really fun" to work with... and this 
Google group is filled with anecdotes over the last 15 years attesting to 
the robustness of his wheel builds.  He built a 32-spoke Mavic Open Pro 
wheel for me that I have been unable to knock out of true in over a decade 
(and 1000s of miles of pavement).  

Will M

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 1:14:41 PM UTC-4 Keith P. wrote:

> I had some wheels built earlier this year with a Son front and a Silver 
> rear hub. 
>
> I think they might just be out of stock? 🤞
>
> I’ve been really happy it.
>
> (Rich was really fun to work with btw)
>
> k.
>
> On Aug 11, 2023, at 8:56 AM, Johnny Alien  wrote:
>
> I don't remember what happened to them or why they were discontinued. I 
> know that not too too long ago RIch had some stock that he would use on 
> some of his build to order stuff if you wanted but it would have to be done 
> through him AND I have no idea if they still exist. No 40 but they did come 
> in 36 for the rear.
>
>
>
> On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 11:33:20 AM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:
>
>> Also, oddly enough Silver hubs are gone from the Riv site. Anyone know 
>> the story there? 
>>
>> On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 11:26:15 AM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Victor. 
>>>
>>> Johnny, 
>>> I've had loads of Deore hubs and currently have them on my Atlantis 
>>> wheel set. They are a good option just not on the same level as Onyx or 
>>> White Ind.
>>>
>>> On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 10:27:00 AM UTC-4 vhans...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Gravy Wheels, 

 King Kog or '

 Dustinthewind bicycle repair. 

 On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 7:04 AM Johnny Alien  
 wrote:

> I don't know any midwest wheelbuilders to suggest but I can comment on 
> the rear hub. I got some wheels build by Rich at Rivendell and we paired 
> the Deore hubs with the Cliffhangers. He likes the hubs a bunch and they 
> have been great for me. Very quiet. No need to spend a ton to get a 
> really 
> well made quiet hub.
>
> On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 9:13:50 AM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:
>
>> I could use a recommendation for a good wheel builder. I've used 
>> prowheelbuilder.com in the past and have no complaints. Not sure how 
>> I landed on them. Just curious if there is another business that I 
>> should 
>> be looking into? I'm located in Indianapolis as well, and would prefer 
>> sending business to a local or at least midwest company if possible.  
>>
>> I'm looking for a set of 700c wheels for my Atlantis. I'm thinking 
>> I'll do velocity cliffhangers with a SON up front and a nice rear hub. 
>> The 
>> rear is not yet totally decided as I like quiet hubs but there are not 
>> many 
>> options in rim brake, 36-40h hubs these days. I've got an onyx silent 
>> hub 
>> on my crust and love it but they only go up to 32h and I'd prefer 36 or 
>> 40 
>> as I'm a big dude. Which is why I'm thinking about a white industry 
>> (loud 
>> as they come) rear hub in 36 or 40h. 
>>
>> Anyway. I'd like to hear about your preferred wheel builders. 
>>
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>  
> 
> .
>


 -- 
 *VIctor R. Hanson*
 *Gen Mgr*
 *Schmier Industrial Properties*
 *o:  510-652-0800 <(510)%20652-0800>*
 *c:  510-207-8593 <(510)%20207-8593>*

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>  
> 
> .
>
>

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To view 

[RBW] Re: A College Clem

[lconley]

That looks like mine on the right - a P-15 in Kool Lemon, but with the 
Schwinn branded Shimano RD. I didn't have any shoes, I rode it barefooted. 
It was basically the only thing I owned, other than a couple pairs of pants 
and T-shirts. The good old days.

Laing

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 2:05:19 PM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> I would love to have a nicely appointed Paramount as a college ride! 
>
> My friend had a big 70s Schwinn in college and he would ride it down 
> stairs on campus like those pictured below! 
>
> [image: 1972_07.jpg]
>
> On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 8:16:48 AM UTC-4 lconley wrote:
>
>> A hard question. 50 years ago, I left for college and rode a Gitane Tour 
>> de France (Reynolds 531 frame, silk sew-up tires, mostly Campagnolo 
>> components) to class. I locked it up in the bushes (bike racks were not a 
>> thing at that point in time) and carried my books in my Boy Scout Yucca 
>> backpack. Two years later I was hit by an on-duty police officer. The frame 
>> was bent, but I was unhurt. I used the money that I got from the officer 
>> and selling the parts to buy a Schwinn Paramount P-15 (Reynold 531 frame, 
>> all Campagnolo except for the brakes). I continued to ride the Paramount to 
>> class until I graduated in 1978. When I went back to college from 1982 
>> until 1987, I rode the Paramount, but now I had racks and bags and fenders 
>> and a bottom bracket mounted Sanyo generator. By this time there were bike 
>> racks to lock it to. I never locked the bike at night, I kept it inside at 
>> night. I still have the Paramount.
>>
>> I might not do the same today for one basic reason - battery powered 
>> cutters with carbide blades, available cheap from your local Harbor Freight 
>> store. They can cut through anything. 
>>
>> The basic strategy today seems to be to make your bike look worse that 
>> the other bikes in the rack and better locked. Rustoleum makes peel-off 
>> paint that you could camouflage the bike with (make it ugly and look rusty, 
>> add a few stickers), paint the stem, handlebars, hubs, some of the spokes 
>> and seatpost (I would avoid Barbie pink for the time being).  Peel it off 
>> after college to find the pristine Rivendell paint and aluminum below. You 
>> could even peel off the paint and change paint schemes occasionally. Riding 
>> a Rivendell *is* better than riding an ordinary bike.
>>
>> Laing
>> Delray Beach FL
>>
>> On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 10:54:39 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It nearly kills me to say it, but my older son will be heading to 
>>> college in a year. Freshman aren’t to bring cars to campus, so that leaves 
>>> buses, bikes, and your own two feet for transportation. My boys have grown 
>>> up riding Clem Hs; this son rides a 52 cm cast-off from my husband (who 
>>> doesn’t ride, sigh). 
>>>
>>> My 6’3” Dad had a blue 59 cm Clem on order when he died suddenly in 
>>> 2020, and his blue Clem has sat, boxed, waiting for my boy to grow into it. 
>>> I lugged the gargantuan box up from the basement last week to see how if 
>>> the bike would fit. “Now that I’ve obtained optimal height,” my son is fond 
>>> of saying… 
>>>
>>> Anyway, he’s 6’1” now (likely still growing) and I need him to decide if 
>>> he wants to stick with his old Clem H (that he was fond of) or settle into 
>>> this Clem L. Because whichever bike he chooses is getting new wheels, dyno 
>>> and fenders and going to college with him. At first he was opposed to the 
>>> idea of a new Clem; he liked his old Clem, thought it looked cool. But 
>>> after the - as he calls it - Big Bike was assembled, he really began to 
>>> like it. “It looks elegant,” he said. It really does, all long and lithe, 
>>> in blue and silver. He put his saddle and bags on the bike and we test rode 
>>> it tonight. He said, “I am really liking the Big Bike. I like that my knees 
>>> don’t have anything to hit (geez, were his knees hitting his bars?!) and it 
>>> looks elegant. It feels more at home now that I have my old saddle on it.” 
>>>
>>> I have mixed feelings about sending him to college with this bike, 
>>> because it’s so nice. I also doubt he’ll be able to get it on a bus bike 
>>> rack - and I have no idea how often he will want to do that. His bike life 
>>> is totally unknown at this point. All I know is that I’m getting him dyno 
>>> because the kid has never remembered to charge a light in his LIFE and I 
>>> will not sleep at night without it.The 52 takes 650b wheels and the 59 
>>> takes 700c, so I don’t want to buy the wheels until I know which bike he 
>>> really wants. But as of now, he wants his new bike.
>>>
>>> I know people will say we should just get a beater. I know why that 
>>> would be advisable, but I also hate to think of a Clem languishing when it 
>>> could be serving a noble purpose. I’d love for him and his Clem to journey 
>>> through undergrad together.
>>>
>>> I am wondering…has anyone gone to college or sent their 

[RBW] Re: A College Clem

[George Schick]

I'll chime in with yet another recommendation (would be my choice if I were 
going to be shipping a kid of to a campus in the near future):  a Surly 
1x1. They're single speed frames, rather on the heavy side made from 4130 
chro-moly tubing, powder coated for durability, and can be set up with a 
single-speed cog and chainring of your choice.  I currently own one and use 
it as my all around utility bike for running short haul errands, etc.  I'm 
using a Bulletproof BMX crankset, 38-tooth Rocket chainring, and a Shimano 
17-tooth SS freewheel for a 59" gear (perfect for riding around campus).  
You can equip this bike with front and rear disc brakes, though I would not 
recommend it for campus use where it can get beat around on an overloaded 
bike rack and the discs bent. Instead I'd set it up with linear-pull F&R 
brakes. It comes with a threadless fork/steering tube, though, so you'd 
need the right length/angle threadless stem and the right bars to fit it 
(I'd recommend the VeloOrange Granola-Moose bar for easy mounting of the 
bar with a headlight.  You could pick any hub, rim, and tire combination 
you prefer.  Mine has Surly's semi-sealed cartridge hubs with 28mm rims and 
60mm Schwalbe Big Apple balloon tires - again, a perfect combo for campus 
riding.
A web search shows that there are several LBS's around the GR, MI area who 
are Surly dealers so you'd be within reasonable reach of one.  Anyway, 
that's my 2¢.

PS: I have a 16T White Industries SS freewheel FS if that would work

On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 6:47:48 AM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> Wow, this thread has generated a lot of response, and I’ve enjoyed reading 
> every post. It’s such a shame we have to go to extremes to avoid bike theft 
> - carrying heavy u-locks, being so choosy about parking and locking, 
> replacing parts, making the bike ugly, choosing to ride an undesirable bike 
> so we can preserve our desirable bike…
>
> Then there’s the other variable - how careful is the kid going to be with 
> the bike? Well, bikes are not precious to him. He likes his bike, sees 
> beauty and usefulness in it, but please do not bore him with too many 
> details about it. I don’t think he will worry about it like I would; and 
> that may lead to carelessness that gets his bike stolen. But also, he has 
> the Mr. Magoo-like quality of walking through life blissfully unaware of 
> the evil that lurks around every corner and arriving unscathed at his 
> destination. 
>
> The campus in question does not have a lot of bike pirates roaming about, 
> although yes, I know they exist everywhere. But they are not prolific on 
> this particular campus. I’m still undecided about what bike to send, but 
> any bike that goes with him will get skewers that are locked and nuts that 
> prevent the theft of stem, saddle and seat post. Hexlox makes all these 
> products, if anyone is wondering. We’ll have good u-locks, too. 
>
> And thanks to Jim for the mention of coverage under homeowners’ insurance. 
> I’ll be looking into that for sure. 
> Leah
>
> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 7:04:07 PM UTC-4 nlerner wrote:
>
>> Similar to Mackenzy, I’ve been bike commuting to college campuses for 
>> many decades, the last 30 of which have been in the Boston area. I’ve never 
>> had a bike stolen likely because (1) I use a decent lock and (2) never park 
>> it outside overnight. I have colleagues who would never leave their bikes 
>> outside at all and schlep them up to their offices, navigating too small 
>> elevators and lots of doorways, but I’ve never seen the need. Sure, bikes 
>> get stolen around here all the time, but I’m convinced those are the ones 
>> easiest to steal, e.g., unlocked on a porch or in a backyard or part of a 
>> larger home break in.
>>
>> Now that doesn’t mean I necessarily endorse bringing the Clem to college 
>> as it will likely get thoroughly trashed from daily wear and tear (bike 
>> racks are not bike-friendly spaces). But I’m also always looking for an 
>> excuse to build up a commuter for colleagues.
>>
>> Neal Lerner
>> Brookline MA
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 5:07:52 PM UTC-4 Mackenzy Albright wrote:
>>
>>> I'm amazed at the amount of discouragement of use of the Clem as a 
>>> college commuting bike. 
>>>
>>> I've worked at universities a good chunk of my life and commuted with 
>>> high(er) end bikes and never had any issues. I like riding nice bikes - 
>>> which is why I own them. I've parked in high foot traffic zones (in front 
>>> of libraries, security, etc.) or bring my bike inside ( absolute in 
>>> downtown Vancouver) when possible or parking my bike is in eyesight 
>>> (outside my old office at a bike rack in UVIC). Just the standard back 
>>> wheel lock with cable around the front wheel. Nothing fancy. (no QR seat) 
>>> Never ever ever leave them parked over night. I always avoid dark or hidden 
>>> area's, especially near residence halls or maintenance buildings. Granted - 
>>> some universit

[RBW] Re: PSA: Thomson 26.8 Masterpiece Clearance

[Piaw Na]

Ha! It's not just me then! I had to crank down on the seatpost clamp to 
keep things from slipping. The masterpiece seatpost doesn't slip as readily 
as the kalloy though

On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 1:15:36 AM UTC-7 Nick Payne wrote:

> I was a bit pissed off when I found on delivery that the latest Rivendell 
> frame I bought took a 26.8 seatpost. The three previous Riv frames I have 
> all use 27.2. And in fact, this latest frame wasn't even accurately sized 
> for 26.8 - the Kalloy seatpost that came with it, and which was a true 26.8 
> by my vernier calipers, was a slightly loose fit in the seat tube. So I 
> reamed the seat tube to 27.0 and used a 27.0 Nitto S83.
>
> Nick Payne
>

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[RBW] Re: A College Clem

[George Schick]

I have to retract my previous message a bit.  A Web investigation reveals 
that the Surly 1x1 frame is no longer available from the manufacturer.  
Rats!!  This would've been the perfect bike.  Evidently the single-speed 
era has surpassed us now.

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 1:43:29 PM UTC-5 George Schick wrote:

> I'll chime in with yet another recommendation (would be my choice if I 
> were going to be shipping a kid of to a campus in the near future):  a 
> Surly 1x1. They're single speed frames, rather on the heavy side made from 
> 4130 chro-moly tubing, powder coated for durability, and can be set up with 
> a single-speed cog and chainring of your choice.  I currently own one and 
> use it as my all around utility bike for running short haul errands, etc.  
> I'm using a Bulletproof BMX crankset, 38-tooth Rocket chainring, and a 
> Shimano 17-tooth SS freewheel for a 59" gear (perfect for riding around 
> campus).  You can equip this bike with front and rear disc brakes, though I 
> would not recommend it for campus use where it can get beat around on an 
> overloaded bike rack and the discs bent. Instead I'd set it up with 
> linear-pull F&R brakes. It comes with a threadless fork/steering tube, 
> though, so you'd need the right length/angle threadless stem and the right 
> bars to fit it (I'd recommend the VeloOrange Granola-Moose bar for easy 
> mounting of the bar with a headlight.  You could pick any hub, rim, and 
> tire combination you prefer.  Mine has Surly's semi-sealed cartridge hubs 
> with 28mm rims and 60mm Schwalbe Big Apple balloon tires - again, a perfect 
> combo for campus riding.
> A web search shows that there are several LBS's around the GR, MI area who 
> are Surly dealers so you'd be within reasonable reach of one.  Anyway, 
> that's my 2¢.
>
> PS: I have a 16T White Industries SS freewheel FS if that would work
>
> On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 6:47:48 AM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> Wow, this thread has generated a lot of response, and I’ve enjoyed 
>> reading every post. It’s such a shame we have to go to extremes to avoid 
>> bike theft - carrying heavy u-locks, being so choosy about parking and 
>> locking, replacing parts, making the bike ugly, choosing to ride an 
>> undesirable bike so we can preserve our desirable bike…
>>
>> Then there’s the other variable - how careful is the kid going to be with 
>> the bike? Well, bikes are not precious to him. He likes his bike, sees 
>> beauty and usefulness in it, but please do not bore him with too many 
>> details about it. I don’t think he will worry about it like I would; and 
>> that may lead to carelessness that gets his bike stolen. But also, he has 
>> the Mr. Magoo-like quality of walking through life blissfully unaware of 
>> the evil that lurks around every corner and arriving unscathed at his 
>> destination. 
>>
>> The campus in question does not have a lot of bike pirates roaming about, 
>> although yes, I know they exist everywhere. But they are not prolific on 
>> this particular campus. I’m still undecided about what bike to send, but 
>> any bike that goes with him will get skewers that are locked and nuts that 
>> prevent the theft of stem, saddle and seat post. Hexlox makes all these 
>> products, if anyone is wondering. We’ll have good u-locks, too. 
>>
>> And thanks to Jim for the mention of coverage under homeowners’ 
>> insurance. I’ll be looking into that for sure. 
>> Leah
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 7:04:07 PM UTC-4 nlerner wrote:
>>
>>> Similar to Mackenzy, I’ve been bike commuting to college campuses for 
>>> many decades, the last 30 of which have been in the Boston area. I’ve never 
>>> had a bike stolen likely because (1) I use a decent lock and (2) never park 
>>> it outside overnight. I have colleagues who would never leave their bikes 
>>> outside at all and schlep them up to their offices, navigating too small 
>>> elevators and lots of doorways, but I’ve never seen the need. Sure, bikes 
>>> get stolen around here all the time, but I’m convinced those are the ones 
>>> easiest to steal, e.g., unlocked on a porch or in a backyard or part of a 
>>> larger home break in.
>>>
>>> Now that doesn’t mean I necessarily endorse bringing the Clem to college 
>>> as it will likely get thoroughly trashed from daily wear and tear (bike 
>>> racks are not bike-friendly spaces). But I’m also always looking for an 
>>> excuse to build up a commuter for colleagues.
>>>
>>> Neal Lerner
>>> Brookline MA
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 5:07:52 PM UTC-4 Mackenzy Albright wrote:
>>>
 I'm amazed at the amount of discouragement of use of the Clem as a 
 college commuting bike. 

 I've worked at universities a good chunk of my life and commuted with 
 high(er) end bikes and never had any issues. I like riding nice bikes - 
 which is why I own them. I've parked in high foot traffic zones (in front 
 of libraries, security, etc.) or bring my bike inside

[RBW] Re: A College Clem

[Mackenzy Albright]

We all love our Rivendell's very very much and think highly of them. But 
just a point of perspective I would like to point out - not many people 
take a sloping top tube bike seriously. I've been friends with houseless 
folks in neighborhoods I've worked in the past. Bike and parts theft is 
often based off of convenience and flash and occasionally wrong place at 
the wrong time. Most bike thefts I hear of or witness these days are 
e-bikes (the biggest target), old 26" mountain bikes (since they're 
un-obsoletable they are valued highly by street folk), squishy mtbs, and 
flashy roady bikes that look like they're worth some bucks. A rim brake 
700c step through commuter bike isn't exactly a bike to "stick out" to bike 
thieves - at least if it's locked well. Not saying there isn't a chance of 
any bike getting stolen. But realistically a clem smith jr is a lot less 
likely than somebody cruising to work on their carbon or full suspension 
specialized and locking it outside. Good consistent locking - making it 
apparent its not an easy steal will be good enough. If somebody really 
want's it they will steal it - but honestly there's going to be something 
more eye catching to a thief than a Clem 99% of the time IMO. 

I've also had multiple friends lose bikes that were "uglied up" with 
stickers and spray paint because security or property owners assumed they 
were stolen or bikes from street folk. Though universities will usually tag 
bikes before removal.  

Also - in response to George's good point. There is a reason so many 
college kids ride single speeds and fixed gears. (at least when I was in 
UNI and maybe I still notice them for that reason) they're cheap and easy 
to maintain. Not as much at stake. Less to worry about in general. (even 
though I stand by my Clem JR isn't high on the STEAL ME lists) 

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 11:43:29 AM UTC-7 George Schick wrote:

> I'll chime in with yet another recommendation (would be my choice if I 
> were going to be shipping a kid of to a campus in the near future):  a 
> Surly 1x1. They're single speed frames, rather on the heavy side made from 
> 4130 chro-moly tubing, powder coated for durability, and can be set up with 
> a single-speed cog and chainring of your choice.  I currently own one and 
> use it as my all around utility bike for running short haul errands, etc.  
> I'm using a Bulletproof BMX crankset, 38-tooth Rocket chainring, and a 
> Shimano 17-tooth SS freewheel for a 59" gear (perfect for riding around 
> campus).  You can equip this bike with front and rear disc brakes, though I 
> would not recommend it for campus use where it can get beat around on an 
> overloaded bike rack and the discs bent. Instead I'd set it up with 
> linear-pull F&R brakes. It comes with a threadless fork/steering tube, 
> though, so you'd need the right length/angle threadless stem and the right 
> bars to fit it (I'd recommend the VeloOrange Granola-Moose bar for easy 
> mounting of the bar with a headlight.  You could pick any hub, rim, and 
> tire combination you prefer.  Mine has Surly's semi-sealed cartridge hubs 
> with 28mm rims and 60mm Schwalbe Big Apple balloon tires - again, a perfect 
> combo for campus riding.
> A web search shows that there are several LBS's around the GR, MI area who 
> are Surly dealers so you'd be within reasonable reach of one.  Anyway, 
> that's my 2¢.
>
> PS: I have a 16T White Industries SS freewheel FS if that would work
>
> On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 6:47:48 AM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> Wow, this thread has generated a lot of response, and I’ve enjoyed 
>> reading every post. It’s such a shame we have to go to extremes to avoid 
>> bike theft - carrying heavy u-locks, being so choosy about parking and 
>> locking, replacing parts, making the bike ugly, choosing to ride an 
>> undesirable bike so we can preserve our desirable bike…
>>
>> Then there’s the other variable - how careful is the kid going to be with 
>> the bike? Well, bikes are not precious to him. He likes his bike, sees 
>> beauty and usefulness in it, but please do not bore him with too many 
>> details about it. I don’t think he will worry about it like I would; and 
>> that may lead to carelessness that gets his bike stolen. But also, he has 
>> the Mr. Magoo-like quality of walking through life blissfully unaware of 
>> the evil that lurks around every corner and arriving unscathed at his 
>> destination. 
>>
>> The campus in question does not have a lot of bike pirates roaming about, 
>> although yes, I know they exist everywhere. But they are not prolific on 
>> this particular campus. I’m still undecided about what bike to send, but 
>> any bike that goes with him will get skewers that are locked and nuts that 
>> prevent the theft of stem, saddle and seat post. Hexlox makes all these 
>> products, if anyone is wondering. We’ll have good u-locks, too. 
>>
>> And thanks to Jim for the mention of coverage under homeowners’

Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Eric Daume]

The 1x1 isn’t made any more, and they hold their value really well as they
seem to be coming somewhat collectible. The replacement is the Lowside, I
think it’s about $890 for the frame set. Not really a value play anymore.

Eric

On Friday, August 11, 2023, George Schick  wrote:

> I'll chime in with yet another recommendation (would be my choice if I
> were going to be shipping a kid of to a campus in the near future):  a
> Surly 1x1. They're single speed frames, rather on the heavy side made from
> 4130 chro-moly tubing, powder coated for durability, and can be set up with
> a single-speed cog and chainring of your choice.  I currently own one and
> use it as my all around utility bike for running short haul errands, etc.
> I'm using a Bulletproof BMX crankset, 38-tooth Rocket chainring, and a
> Shimano 17-tooth SS freewheel for a 59" gear (perfect for riding around
> campus).  You can equip this bike with front and rear disc brakes, though I
> would not recommend it for campus use where it can get beat around on an
> overloaded bike rack and the discs bent. Instead I'd set it up with
> linear-pull F&R brakes. It comes with a threadless fork/steering tube,
> though, so you'd need the right length/angle threadless stem and the right
> bars to fit it (I'd recommend the VeloOrange Granola-Moose bar for easy
> mounting of the bar with a headlight.  You could pick any hub, rim, and
> tire combination you prefer.  Mine has Surly's semi-sealed cartridge hubs
> with 28mm rims and 60mm Schwalbe Big Apple balloon tires - again, a perfect
> combo for campus riding.
> A web search shows that there are several LBS's around the GR, MI area who
> are Surly dealers so you'd be within reasonable reach of one.  Anyway,
> that's my 2¢.
>
> PS: I have a 16T White Industries SS freewheel FS if that would work
>
> On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 6:47:48 AM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!
> wrote:
>
>> Wow, this thread has generated a lot of response, and I’ve enjoyed
>> reading every post. It’s such a shame we have to go to extremes to avoid
>> bike theft - carrying heavy u-locks, being so choosy about parking and
>> locking, replacing parts, making the bike ugly, choosing to ride an
>> undesirable bike so we can preserve our desirable bike…
>>
>> Then there’s the other variable - how careful is the kid going to be with
>> the bike? Well, bikes are not precious to him. He likes his bike, sees
>> beauty and usefulness in it, but please do not bore him with too many
>> details about it. I don’t think he will worry about it like I would; and
>> that may lead to carelessness that gets his bike stolen. But also, he has
>> the Mr. Magoo-like quality of walking through life blissfully unaware of
>> the evil that lurks around every corner and arriving unscathed at his
>> destination.
>>
>> The campus in question does not have a lot of bike pirates roaming about,
>> although yes, I know they exist everywhere. But they are not prolific on
>> this particular campus. I’m still undecided about what bike to send, but
>> any bike that goes with him will get skewers that are locked and nuts that
>> prevent the theft of stem, saddle and seat post. Hexlox makes all these
>> products, if anyone is wondering. We’ll have good u-locks, too.
>>
>> And thanks to Jim for the mention of coverage under homeowners’
>> insurance. I’ll be looking into that for sure.
>> Leah
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 7:04:07 PM UTC-4 nlerner wrote:
>>
>>> Similar to Mackenzy, I’ve been bike commuting to college campuses for
>>> many decades, the last 30 of which have been in the Boston area. I’ve never
>>> had a bike stolen likely because (1) I use a decent lock and (2) never park
>>> it outside overnight. I have colleagues who would never leave their bikes
>>> outside at all and schlep them up to their offices, navigating too small
>>> elevators and lots of doorways, but I’ve never seen the need. Sure, bikes
>>> get stolen around here all the time, but I’m convinced those are the ones
>>> easiest to steal, e.g., unlocked on a porch or in a backyard or part of a
>>> larger home break in.
>>>
>>> Now that doesn’t mean I necessarily endorse bringing the Clem to college
>>> as it will likely get thoroughly trashed from daily wear and tear (bike
>>> racks are not bike-friendly spaces). But I’m also always looking for an
>>> excuse to build up a commuter for colleagues.
>>>
>>> Neal Lerner
>>> Brookline MA
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 5:07:52 PM UTC-4 Mackenzy Albright wrote:
>>>
 I'm amazed at the amount of discouragement of use of the Clem as a
 college commuting bike.

 I've worked at universities a good chunk of my life and commuted with
 high(er) end bikes and never had any issues. I like riding nice bikes -
 which is why I own them. I've parked in high foot traffic zones (in front
 of libraries, security, etc.) or bring my bike inside ( absolute in
 downtown Vancouver) when possible or parking my bike is in eyesight
 (

[RBW] Re: A College Clem

[Mackenzy Albright]

George - I recently went on a quest to find an old non suspension corrected 
(1st or 2nd gen) Surly 1x1 or Karate Monkey and it was nearly impossible 
and their prices are quite high at least in Canada. There are little or no 
single speed specific mtb/atb frames these days (except the crust florida 
man and wombat) Getting a custom Marino was cheaper (~$500 CAD in total 
shipped) 



On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 12:55:12 PM UTC-7 Mackenzy Albright wrote:

> We all love our Rivendell's very very much and think highly of them. But 
> just a point of perspective I would like to point out - not many people 
> take a sloping top tube bike seriously. I've been friends with houseless 
> folks in neighborhoods I've worked in the past. Bike and parts theft is 
> often based off of convenience and flash and occasionally wrong place at 
> the wrong time. Most bike thefts I hear of or witness these days are 
> e-bikes (the biggest target), old 26" mountain bikes (since they're 
> un-obsoletable they are valued highly by street folk), squishy mtbs, and 
> flashy roady bikes that look like they're worth some bucks. A rim brake 
> 700c step through commuter bike isn't exactly a bike to "stick out" to bike 
> thieves - at least if it's locked well. Not saying there isn't a chance of 
> any bike getting stolen. But realistically a clem smith jr is a lot less 
> likely than somebody cruising to work on their carbon or full suspension 
> specialized and locking it outside. Good consistent locking - making it 
> apparent its not an easy steal will be good enough. If somebody really 
> want's it they will steal it - but honestly there's going to be something 
> more eye catching to a thief than a Clem 99% of the time IMO. 
>
> I've also had multiple friends lose bikes that were "uglied up" with 
> stickers and spray paint because security or property owners assumed they 
> were stolen or bikes from street folk. Though universities will usually tag 
> bikes before removal.  
>
> Also - in response to George's good point. There is a reason so many 
> college kids ride single speeds and fixed gears. (at least when I was in 
> UNI and maybe I still notice them for that reason) they're cheap and easy 
> to maintain. Not as much at stake. Less to worry about in general. (even 
> though I stand by my Clem JR isn't high on the STEAL ME lists) 
>
> On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 11:43:29 AM UTC-7 George Schick wrote:
>
>> I'll chime in with yet another recommendation (would be my choice if I 
>> were going to be shipping a kid of to a campus in the near future):  a 
>> Surly 1x1. They're single speed frames, rather on the heavy side made from 
>> 4130 chro-moly tubing, powder coated for durability, and can be set up with 
>> a single-speed cog and chainring of your choice.  I currently own one and 
>> use it as my all around utility bike for running short haul errands, etc.  
>> I'm using a Bulletproof BMX crankset, 38-tooth Rocket chainring, and a 
>> Shimano 17-tooth SS freewheel for a 59" gear (perfect for riding around 
>> campus).  You can equip this bike with front and rear disc brakes, though I 
>> would not recommend it for campus use where it can get beat around on an 
>> overloaded bike rack and the discs bent. Instead I'd set it up with 
>> linear-pull F&R brakes. It comes with a threadless fork/steering tube, 
>> though, so you'd need the right length/angle threadless stem and the right 
>> bars to fit it (I'd recommend the VeloOrange Granola-Moose bar for easy 
>> mounting of the bar with a headlight.  You could pick any hub, rim, and 
>> tire combination you prefer.  Mine has Surly's semi-sealed cartridge hubs 
>> with 28mm rims and 60mm Schwalbe Big Apple balloon tires - again, a perfect 
>> combo for campus riding.
>> A web search shows that there are several LBS's around the GR, MI area 
>> who are Surly dealers so you'd be within reasonable reach of one.  Anyway, 
>> that's my 2¢.
>>
>> PS: I have a 16T White Industries SS freewheel FS if that would work
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 6:47:48 AM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Wow, this thread has generated a lot of response, and I’ve enjoyed 
>>> reading every post. It’s such a shame we have to go to extremes to avoid 
>>> bike theft - carrying heavy u-locks, being so choosy about parking and 
>>> locking, replacing parts, making the bike ugly, choosing to ride an 
>>> undesirable bike so we can preserve our desirable bike…
>>>
>>> Then there’s the other variable - how careful is the kid going to be 
>>> with the bike? Well, bikes are not precious to him. He likes his bike, sees 
>>> beauty and usefulness in it, but please do not bore him with too many 
>>> details about it. I don’t think he will worry about it like I would; and 
>>> that may lead to carelessness that gets his bike stolen. But also, he has 
>>> the Mr. Magoo-like quality of walking through life blissfully unaware of 
>>> the evil that lurks around every corner and arriving un

Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Brian Turner]

I agree with Mackenzie’s point about swoopy top tube bikes not being taken seriously by most folks - regardless of whether or not they are “bike folks”. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been asked if my Gus is “an old vintage bike”. Haha. Then I try to explain to them what it actually is and their eyes just gloss over.Y’all are making me miss my old 1st generation Surly 1x1. I used it for most of my bike polo “career”, which spanned from 2007 - 2012. It traveled all over the Midwest with me and my fellow club mates. Man, that was probably the sweetest, most dialed-in bike I’ve ever owned. I had it set up with Motolites and a Paul dual-pull lever on the left side (so I could swing a mallet with my right). Stopped on a dime, and accelerated like a rocket. I had my friend Alex Meade (of Discord stem fame) who lived near me at the time, make me a custom straight blade fork for super-tight, twitchy turning… that bike absolutely slayed!I’m happy to say it’s still roaming my city as a daily commuter; I ended up selling the f/f/hs to a friend of mine. I still see it occasionally and have pangs of regret!On Aug 11, 2023, at 4:00 PM, Eric Daume  wrote:The 1x1 isn’t made any more, and they hold their value really well as they seem to be coming somewhat collectible. The replacement is the Lowside, I think it’s about $890 for the frame set. Not really a value play anymore. EricOn Friday, August 11, 2023, George Schick  wrote:I'll chime in with yet another recommendation (would be my choice if I were going to be shipping a kid of to a campus in the near future):  a Surly 1x1. They're single speed frames, rather on the heavy side made from 4130 chro-moly tubing, powder coated for durability, and can be set up with a single-speed cog and chainring of your choice.  I currently own one and use it as my all around utility bike for running short haul errands, etc.  I'm using a Bulletproof BMX crankset, 38-tooth Rocket chainring, and a Shimano 17-tooth SS freewheel for a 59" gear (perfect for riding around campus).  You can equip this bike with front and rear disc brakes, though I would not recommend it for campus use where it can get beat around on an overloaded bike rack and the discs bent. Instead I'd set it up with linear-pull F&R brakes. It comes with a threadless fork/steering tube, though, so you'd need the right length/angle threadless stem and the right bars to fit it (I'd recommend the VeloOrange Granola-Moose bar for easy mounting of the bar with a headlight.  You could pick any hub, rim, and tire combination you prefer.  Mine has Surly's semi-sealed cartridge hubs with 28mm rims and 60mm Schwalbe Big Apple balloon tires - again, a perfect combo for campus riding.A web search shows that there are several LBS's around the GR, MI area who are Surly dealers so you'd be within reasonable reach of one.  Anyway, that's my 2¢.PS: I have a 16T White Industries SS freewheel FS if that would workOn Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 6:47:48 AM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:Wow, this thread has generated a lot of response, and I’ve enjoyed reading every post. It’s such a shame we have to go to extremes to avoid bike theft - carrying heavy u-locks, being so choosy about parking and locking, replacing parts, making the bike ugly, choosing to ride an undesirable bike so we can preserve our desirable bike…Then there’s the other variable - how careful is the kid going to be with the bike? Well, bikes are not precious to him. He likes his bike, sees beauty and usefulness in it, but please do not bore him with too many details about it. I don’t think he will worry about it like I would; and that may lead to carelessness that gets his bike stolen. But also, he has the Mr. Magoo-like quality of walking through life blissfully unaware of the evil that lurks around every corner and arriving unscathed at his destination. The campus in question does not have a lot of bike pirates roaming about, although yes, I know they exist everywhere. But they are not prolific on this particular campus. I’m still undecided about what bike to send, but any bike that goes with him will get skewers that are locked and nuts that prevent the theft of stem, saddle and seat post. Hexlox makes all these products, if anyone is wondering. We’ll have good u-locks, too. And thanks to Jim for the mention of coverage under homeowners’ insurance. I’ll be looking into that for sure. LeahOn Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 7:04:07 PM UTC-4 nlerner wrote:Similar to Mackenzy, I’ve been bike commuting to college campuses for many decades, the last 30 of which have been in the Boston area. I’ve never had a bike stolen likely because (1) I use a decent lock and (2) never park it outside overnight. I have colleagues who would never leave their bikes outside at all and schlep them up to their offices, navigating too small elevators and lots of doorways, but I’ve never seen the need. Sure, bikes get stolen around here all the time, but I’m convinced those are

Re: [RBW] Re: Wheel Builder

[Garth]

There's little choice for quiet hubs so if you need 36 you may as well go 
with Deore's. For myself having a quiet hub is non-negotiable, so I've gone 
back to using threaded FW hubs for my future builds. The irony is that for 
the 7 cogs I use there's a better selection of freewheels these days than 
cassettes. Rich will build you fine wheels. I had him build a set of Alex 
DM24 rims with Deore/Suntour hubs for me but I've never used them. I also 
have 2 sets of Joe Young wheels. (He formerly built wheels for Riv way 
beck when before Rich.) He's in Granbury Texas, youngwheels.com I think. I 
still ride the first set he built in 1999, and of course, they're as 
straight as an arrow. 

There's many things that Riv has that aren't on the menu as I think they're 
busy enough as it is and don't have much time for extensive upkeep of the 
website in totality. The "new" 7sp cassette hub was supposedly coming 
sometime, but as for noise I'd be surprised if it was quiet. Shimano is by 
their own words ditching most of their road and mtb groups in favor of the 
deathly black "Ican'tremember" line of bike parts that supposed can be used 
for road or mtb use. Of course, it was Shimano who messed things up by 
dividing them in the first place with different cable pulls. 

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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[greenteadrinkers]

I'd have a tough time focusing on/in class knowing I had a Riv. locked up 
outside.

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 4:14:34 PM UTC-4 brok...@gmail.com wrote:

> I agree with Mackenzie’s point about swoopy top tube bikes not being taken 
> seriously by most folks - regardless of whether or not they are “bike 
> folks”. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been asked if my Gus is “an 
> old vintage bike”. Haha. Then I try to explain to them what it actually is 
> and their eyes just gloss over.
>
> Y’all are making me miss my old 1st generation Surly 1x1. I used it for 
> most of my bike polo “career”, which spanned from 2007 - 2012. It traveled 
> all over the Midwest with me and my fellow club mates. Man, that was 
> probably the sweetest, most dialed-in bike I’ve ever owned. I had it set up 
> with Motolites and a Paul dual-pull lever on the left side (so I could 
> swing a mallet with my right). Stopped on a dime, and accelerated like a 
> rocket. I had my friend Alex Meade (of Discord stem fame) who lived near me 
> at the time, make me a custom straight blade fork for super-tight, twitchy 
> turning… that bike absolutely slayed!
>
> I’m happy to say it’s still roaming my city as a daily commuter; I ended 
> up selling the f/f/hs to a friend of mine. I still see it occasionally and 
> have pangs of regret!
>
> On Aug 11, 2023, at 4:00 PM, Eric Daume  wrote:
>
> The 1x1 isn’t made any more, and they hold their value really well as 
> they seem to be coming somewhat collectible. The replacement is the 
> Lowside, I think it’s about $890 for the frame set. Not really a value play 
> anymore. 
>
>
> Eric
>
> On Friday, August 11, 2023, George Schick  wrote:
>
>> I'll chime in with yet another recommendation (would be my choice if I 
>> were going to be shipping a kid of to a campus in the near future):  a 
>> Surly 1x1. They're single speed frames, rather on the heavy side made from 
>> 4130 chro-moly tubing, powder coated for durability, and can be set up with 
>> a single-speed cog and chainring of your choice.  I currently own one and 
>> use it as my all around utility bike for running short haul errands, etc.  
>> I'm using a Bulletproof BMX crankset, 38-tooth Rocket chainring, and a 
>> Shimano 17-tooth SS freewheel for a 59" gear (perfect for riding around 
>> campus).  You can equip this bike with front and rear disc brakes, though I 
>> would not recommend it for campus use where it can get beat around on an 
>> overloaded bike rack and the discs bent. Instead I'd set it up with 
>> linear-pull F&R brakes. It comes with a threadless fork/steering tube, 
>> though, so you'd need the right length/angle threadless stem and the right 
>> bars to fit it (I'd recommend the VeloOrange Granola-Moose bar for easy 
>> mounting of the bar with a headlight.  You could pick any hub, rim, and 
>> tire combination you prefer.  Mine has Surly's semi-sealed cartridge hubs 
>> with 28mm rims and 60mm Schwalbe Big Apple balloon tires - again, a perfect 
>> combo for campus riding.
>> A web search shows that there are several LBS's around the GR, MI area 
>> who are Surly dealers so you'd be within reasonable reach of one.  Anyway, 
>> that's my 2¢.
>>
>> PS: I have a 16T White Industries SS freewheel FS if that would work
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 6:47:48 AM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Wow, this thread has generated a lot of response, and I’ve enjoyed 
>>> reading every post. It’s such a shame we have to go to extremes to avoid 
>>> bike theft - carrying heavy u-locks, being so choosy about parking and 
>>> locking, replacing parts, making the bike ugly, choosing to ride an 
>>> undesirable bike so we can preserve our desirable bike…
>>>
>>> Then there’s the other variable - how careful is the kid going to be 
>>> with the bike? Well, bikes are not precious to him. He likes his bike, sees 
>>> beauty and usefulness in it, but please do not bore him with too many 
>>> details about it. I don’t think he will worry about it like I would; and 
>>> that may lead to carelessness that gets his bike stolen. But also, he has 
>>> the Mr. Magoo-like quality of walking through life blissfully unaware of 
>>> the evil that lurks around every corner and arriving unscathed at his 
>>> destination. 
>>>
>>> The campus in question does not have a lot of bike pirates roaming 
>>> about, although yes, I know they exist everywhere. But they are not 
>>> prolific on this particular campus. I’m still undecided about what bike to 
>>> send, but any bike that goes with him will get skewers that are locked and 
>>> nuts that prevent the theft of stem, saddle and seat post. Hexlox makes all 
>>> these products, if anyone is wondering. We’ll have good u-locks, too. 
>>>
>>> And thanks to Jim for the mention of coverage under homeowners’ 
>>> insurance. I’ll be looking into that for sure. 
>>> Leah
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 7:04:07 PM UTC-4 nlerner wrote:
>>>
 Similar to Mackenzy, I’ve been bike

[RBW] WTT: Nitto Tallux 11cm for Nitto Tallux 12cm

[J Imler]

I'm looking for a 12cm, maybe 13cm even. My 11cm is in very good condition. 
PM if interested. Thanks.

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Re: [RBW] WTB / ISO Nitto R10 bag support rack

[Richard Rose]

Nitto R10 follow up & Bluelug. I could not find one here or in stock anywhere except @ Analog Cycles who had a few but they were cerakoted - for $185.00. OK I suppose if you want color.So I ordered one from Bluelug @ a lower cost than any of the usual sources for less than the going $$ even with shipping from Japan. AND, I got it in 3-4 days. It’s a beautiful thing (first Nitto rack) and Bluelug is really cool to deal with. Sent from my iPhoneOn Aug 7, 2023, at 9:43 PM, Richard Rose  wrote:Good Evening. Anyone have one of these looking for a new home? They seem to be out of stock everywhere except Bluelug.Thanks in advance.



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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Wesley]

The current best value from Surly is the Cross Check, at $1100 for a 
complete.
-W

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 1:00:16 PM UTC-7 Eric Daume wrote:

> The 1x1 isn’t made any more, and they hold their value really well as they 
> seem to be coming somewhat collectible. The replacement is the Lowside, I 
> think it’s about $890 for the frame set. Not really a value play anymore. 
>
> Eric
>
>
> On Friday, August 11, 2023, George Schick  wrote:
>
>> I'll chime in with yet another recommendation (would be my choice if I 
>> were going to be shipping a kid of to a campus in the near future):  a 
>> Surly 1x1. They're single speed frames, rather on the heavy side made from 
>> 4130 chro-moly tubing, powder coated for durability, and can be set up with 
>> a single-speed cog and chainring of your choice.  I currently own one and 
>> use it as my all around utility bike for running short haul errands, etc.  
>> I'm using a Bulletproof BMX crankset, 38-tooth Rocket chainring, and a 
>> Shimano 17-tooth SS freewheel for a 59" gear (perfect for riding around 
>> campus).  You can equip this bike with front and rear disc brakes, though I 
>> would not recommend it for campus use where it can get beat around on an 
>> overloaded bike rack and the discs bent. Instead I'd set it up with 
>> linear-pull F&R brakes. It comes with a threadless fork/steering tube, 
>> though, so you'd need the right length/angle threadless stem and the right 
>> bars to fit it (I'd recommend the VeloOrange Granola-Moose bar for easy 
>> mounting of the bar with a headlight.  You could pick any hub, rim, and 
>> tire combination you prefer.  Mine has Surly's semi-sealed cartridge hubs 
>> with 28mm rims and 60mm Schwalbe Big Apple balloon tires - again, a perfect 
>> combo for campus riding.
>> A web search shows that there are several LBS's around the GR, MI area 
>> who are Surly dealers so you'd be within reasonable reach of one.  Anyway, 
>> that's my 2¢.
>>
>> PS: I have a 16T White Industries SS freewheel FS if that would work
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 6:47:48 AM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Wow, this thread has generated a lot of response, and I’ve enjoyed 
>>> reading every post. It’s such a shame we have to go to extremes to avoid 
>>> bike theft - carrying heavy u-locks, being so choosy about parking and 
>>> locking, replacing parts, making the bike ugly, choosing to ride an 
>>> undesirable bike so we can preserve our desirable bike…
>>>
>>> Then there’s the other variable - how careful is the kid going to be 
>>> with the bike? Well, bikes are not precious to him. He likes his bike, sees 
>>> beauty and usefulness in it, but please do not bore him with too many 
>>> details about it. I don’t think he will worry about it like I would; and 
>>> that may lead to carelessness that gets his bike stolen. But also, he has 
>>> the Mr. Magoo-like quality of walking through life blissfully unaware of 
>>> the evil that lurks around every corner and arriving unscathed at his 
>>> destination. 
>>>
>>> The campus in question does not have a lot of bike pirates roaming 
>>> about, although yes, I know they exist everywhere. But they are not 
>>> prolific on this particular campus. I’m still undecided about what bike to 
>>> send, but any bike that goes with him will get skewers that are locked and 
>>> nuts that prevent the theft of stem, saddle and seat post. Hexlox makes all 
>>> these products, if anyone is wondering. We’ll have good u-locks, too. 
>>>
>>> And thanks to Jim for the mention of coverage under homeowners’ 
>>> insurance. I’ll be looking into that for sure. 
>>> Leah
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 7:04:07 PM UTC-4 nlerner wrote:
>>>
 Similar to Mackenzy, I’ve been bike commuting to college campuses for 
 many decades, the last 30 of which have been in the Boston area. I’ve 
 never 
 had a bike stolen likely because (1) I use a decent lock and (2) never 
 park 
 it outside overnight. I have colleagues who would never leave their bikes 
 outside at all and schlep them up to their offices, navigating too small 
 elevators and lots of doorways, but I’ve never seen the need. Sure, bikes 
 get stolen around here all the time, but I’m convinced those are the ones 
 easiest to steal, e.g., unlocked on a porch or in a backyard or part of a 
 larger home break in.

 Now that doesn’t mean I necessarily endorse bringing the Clem to 
 college as it will likely get thoroughly trashed from daily wear and tear 
 (bike racks are not bike-friendly spaces). But I’m also always looking for 
 an excuse to build up a commuter for colleagues.

 Neal Lerner
 Brookline MA

 On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 5:07:52 PM UTC-4 Mackenzy Albright wrote:

> I'm amazed at the amount of discouragement of use of the Clem as a 
> college commuting bike. 
>
> I've worked at universities a good chunk of my life and commuted 

Re: [RBW] Ride Reports (PNW and France)

[Kieran J]

Yep I plan on going back again (will be my third year). See u there :-D I 
was there with my sister and she has already sold the event to some of her 
CX buddies. The ranks are growing! I don't normally do paid organized 
races/events like that, but it's a special one for sure. 

Looking forward to seeing/reading more about your FR escapades!

Best,
Kieran

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 4:28:53 AM UTC-7 kyleco...@gmail.com wrote:

> Haha no way, fancy finding you here Kieran! That was an awesomely gruesome 
> day. Glad I got to meet you all. Gram, Jaytee, and I are definitely 
> returning next year. Hopefully I'll catch you out there again! I am hoping 
> to instigate some more lively camping the night after the ride ( •̀ᴗ•́ )و 
> ̑̑
>
> Dang that sounds like it would be a sweet tour. The riding out here has 
> been great. I wish we had enough time to make it that far! We got one lined 
> up to head west to Normandy over 5 days. I'll have to report back on that 
> route.
>
> Kyle
>
> On Wed, Aug 9, 2023 at 8:27 PM Kieran J  wrote:
>
>> Thanks for posting Kyle - these are great.
>>
>> I noticed your Cascadia Super Gravel post and then realized I rode a lot 
>> of the route with you and Jaytee and the big party pace gang. I'm the tall 
>> guy on the pink Black Mountain in one of the pics. Such an awesome event!
>>
>> Enjoy your time in France. One of my bucket list trips is cycling from 
>> Paris to the south, or even to Barcelona maybe. Hoping to do that in the 
>> next couple of years. 
>>
>> Kieran
>> Victoria, BC
>>
>> On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 11:36:50 AM UTC-7 kyleco...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Hey John!
>>>
>>> Someone else just messaged me too about setting up a ride while I'm 
>>> out here! It would be sweet to get a route in together. Maybe sometime in 
>>> early September?
>>>
>>> Kyle
>>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 6, 2023 at 6:01 PM John Johnson  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Thanks for the ride report, Kyle.

 I live not far from fontainebleau. The weather the last week or two in 
 July was definitely not great. Sorry that was during your trip.

 For what it's worth, the Scandiberique route (eurovelo 3) runs right 
 through the area and there are some great rides along old canal route 
 paths. The portion just south of Fontainebleau (Nemours to 'Bleau) is 
 really lovely. 

 And open invite to anyone on the forum to look me up if you're ever in 
 the region. 

 Cheers, 

 John
 On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 7:56:21 PM UTC+2 wls...@gmail.com wrote:

> Kyle - Enjoyed the write ups. Keep 'em coming!
>
> On Friday, August 4, 2023 at 12:32:20 PM UTC-4 Dustin wrote:
>
>> Kyle, 
>>
>> Good looking site. Thanks for sharing 
>>
>> Dustin
>>
>> On Aug 4, 2023, at 12:09 PM, Kyle Cotchett  
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hey all!
>>
>>
>> I've been messing around with writing some ride reports on my website 
>> . For 
>> the most part, they are around the Pacific Northwest. My girlfriend and 
>> I 
>> are taking significant time off work and moved to Paris for summer/fall. 
>> We 
>> brought our bikes with us, and I'll be continuing to write up some rides 
>> here in France! I thought I'd share them here with ya'll to enjoy! 
>> Thanks 
>> for reading!
>>
>> -Kyle
>>
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>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/24cb3aa6-9d80-41a1-b0b3-ad97db669541n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
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 .

>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>> KYLE V. COTCHETT
>>>
>>> An urban planner of sorts
>>>
>>> kyleco...@gmail.com
>>>
>>> (650) 863-0925 
>>>
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[RBW] Re: Comfy aluminum frames?

[Jason Fuller]

I was hoping I could track down what I had read not long ago on some very 
interesting thin-wall aluminum bikes that were produced in, I believe, the 
1980s. With aluminum lugged construction if I'm recalling correctly. 
Apparently they rode wonderfully and are nothing like the big-box aluminum 
bikes we're used to today. 

Steel is three times as stiff as aluminum, all else equal. So you'd think 
aluminum frames would be less stiff!  Except, because its also lower 
strength and doesn't have the fatigue resistance of steel, tubing is made 
larger and thicker which more than offsets this. The aluminum frames can 
still be lighter because the yield strength to weight ratio is better with 
aluminum, and by using larger diameter tubing, stresses can be kept low 
enough to not have fatigue issues (for the expected frame lifespan ... 
eventually, their time will come, which isn't necessarily the case for 
steel).  The reason you don't see aluminum frames with a nice flex to them 
like well-made steel frames, is because if aluminum is allowed to flex to 
that extent it will fatigue quickly and end up failing. Under a certain 
level of stress, steel won't fatigue, but aluminum still will, no matter 
the stress. So with aluminum you've got to keep the stresses low enough the 
fatigue life is longer than anyone's likely to ride the bike. 

Aluminum is really popular these days because you can thicken up that frame 
quite a bit, protecting the manufacturer from warranty claims for dented or 
cracked frames, without it getting super heavy. The lack of rust is a big 
plus in the casual cyclist's eyes, and the ease at which the tubing can be 
formed to all kinds of shapes (via hydroforming, among other processes) 
makes designing elaborate cargo bikes and the like a lot easier.  The rough 
ride tends to be solved by wider tires these days; suspension being the 
next line of defence. I reckon it's more attractive for the manufacturer to 
sell you suspension, which they can up-charge for... and also, as little 
sense as it makes to all of us, steel is seen as 'outdated' compared to 
aluminum for bicycle frames. It's dead wrong but .. well, so are a lot of 
the general public's notions about things. 






On Friday, 11 August 2023 at 04:13:44 UTC-7 alan lavine wrote:

> Appreciate your thoughts, everyone.
>
> On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 12:48:17 AM UTC-4 Will M wrote:
>
>> Alan, Jan Heine's 2021 book, *All Road Bicycle Revolution*, has some 
>> good reading on this topic ("characteristics of a great frame can be 
>> obtained from all materials"; p. 174) that aligns with Sheldon Brown's 
>> writing from 20 years ago 
>>  ("the reality is 
>> that you can make a good bike frame out of any of these metals, with any 
>> desired riding qualities, by selecting appropriate tubing diameters, wall 
>> thicknesses and frame geometry").  They both argue that the "feel" of a 
>> frame is influenced more by frame design than by the material itself. 
>>
>> This doesn't answer your question.  :-)
>>
>> I'm not sure I have an answer.  All I know is that my aluminum Yuba Sweet 
>> Curry cargo bike is the stiffest thing on the planet (to give 300-lb cargo 
>> capacity; look at all the aluminum trusses 
>> 
>> !).  
>>
>> And that I agree with Matthias: my "forever bike" is also a C'dale 
>> adventure touring bike (this T1000 
>> ; the aluminum 
>> CAAD2 touring frame) that turns 25 in December.  I had posted previously 
>> 
>>  
>> about how I am slowly turning it into an Atlantis, having drunk too much 
>> Kool-Aid in Walnut Creek.  But I must say that the T1000 rides better than 
>> any RBW bike that I've owned.  Blasphemy, but there it is.  Something about 
>> its chromoly fork's geometry gives it magical handling.  If only it had the 
>> Atlantis's clearances.  I am waiting for the aluminum to fail so I can get 
>> in line for the next Atlantis batch. :-)
>>
>> Will M
>> NYC
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 5:32:56 PM UTC-4 Nick Payne wrote:
>>
>>> As I said in another thread (
>>> https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/tAas6urcOwg/m/KW63fr0LCQAJ), 
>>> modern aluminium frames can be quite comfortable. Last week I did back to 
>>> back rides on successive days over the same chipseal roads on that Al bike 
>>> and on my Riv custom. I can't say that the Riv felt any more comfortable or 
>>> better handling. The Al frame was running Conti GP Urbans and the Riv Rene 
>>> Herse Bon Jon Pass, both nominally 35mm tyres.
>>>
>>> Nick Payne
>>>
>>

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