Re: [RBW] Re: Using Your Rivendell Vs. Being Precious: A Spectrum

[Luke Hendrickson]

I first saw an Atlantis here in San Francisco some 14 years ago shortly 
after moving here. For one reason or another, I always found something else 
to spend my money on while admiring Rivendells from afar. Now that I have 
my Atlantis, I ride only this and use it for mtb trails, park trails, 
commuting, and road riding (knobbies don’t make the best road tire, but 
it’s no matter). For me, I get a little thrill each time I get on my 
Atlantis and remember just how wonderful the ride is and so see no reason 
to not use it for everything. 

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 9:08:11 PM UTC-7 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:

> Thank-you, Jay.
>
> Kim Hetzel. 
>
> On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 8:56:20 PM UTC-7 Jay Lonner wrote:
>
>> Kim,
>>
>> I guess I’d put myself in the “once burned, twice shy” camp — I 
>> personally wouldn’t install a kickstand again, unless maybe the mounting 
>> plate was super bomber. That’s something you’ll have to assess for 
>> yourself. I keep meaning to order a Flickstand but haven’t gotten around to 
>> it, which goes to show that in my riding there’s no shortage of things to 
>> lean my bike against. 
>>
>> Jay Lonner
>> Bellingham, WA
>>
>> Sent from my Atari 400
>>
>> On Nov 5, 2022, at 8:37 PM, Kim Hetzel  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> Hi Jay,
>> Today, I just installed a double-legged kickstand on my Clem "L".  If I 
>> do not carry a heavy loads on the back end of my bike, like you did, I 
>> should be fine ?...regarding possible damage of separating the kickstand 
>> frame plate. 
>>
>> Thank-you,
>> Kim Hetzel
>> Yelm, WA. 
>>
>> On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 6:39:40 PM UTC-7 Jay Lonner wrote:
>>
>>> No damage that I could detect. The kickstand plate isn’t integral to the 
>>> frame, it’s just tacked on with some not-very-strong welds. I’m fairly 
>>> certain it could be removed with only superficial damage to the paint, but 
>>> then I’d have nothing to attach a fender to. 
>>>
>>> Jay Lonner
>>> Bellingham, WA
>>>
>>> Sent from my Atari 400
>>>
>>> On Nov 5, 2022, at 6:13 PM, Piaw Na  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> No damage to the frame? Or did you have to get it repaired?
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 5, 2022 at 6:08 PM Jay Lonner  wrote:
>>>
>>> I don’t have a picture, just imagine the weld giving way and the plate 
 separating from the seat stays. I was using a double-legged kickstand at 
 the time and carrying a fair amount of cargo (see attached), and evidently 
 the seesawing action was enough to pry things loose. It bummed me out for 
 maybe half a day, but it’s been fine ever since, now I just use the 
 kickstand plate as a fender attachment point.

 Jay Lonner
 Bellingham, WA

 Sent from my Atari 400

 

>>>

 On Nov 5, 2022, at 5:54 PM, Piaw Na  wrote:

 
 What does a peeling mounting plate look like? Anyone have pictures? Not 
 that I have kickstands on any of my bikes --- the one on the triplet got 
 taken off ages ago... Just curious.

 On Sat, Nov 5, 2022 at 5:49 PM Richard Rose  wrote:

> When I was talking to Will about getting a double legged kickstand he 
> warned me about the “peeling” mounting plate on the Clems. But, he 
> thought 
> I would be ok they had beefed them up. So far so good.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 5, 2022, at 7:44 PM, Jay Lonner  wrote:
>
> 
> My Hunq is a daily driver and has the dings and scratches to show for 
> it. Probably the worst one is that the kickstand plate is pried partially 
> loose — no big deal, I just took the kickstand off and used the mounting 
> hardware to snug things back up. Worst case scenario for me is that 
> someday 
> I treat myself to a new paint job and maybe some frame modifications to 
> go 
> along with it. 
>
> Jay Lonner
> Bellingham, WA
>
> Sent from my Atari 400
>
> On Nov 5, 2022, at 4:28 PM, George Schick  wrote:
>
> I haven't read Grant's Blahg on this matter (the ancient OS on my 
> computer is so out of date that I can't load certain websites), but what 
> he 
> has to say does not surprise me.  He's always been all about what he 
> calls 
> "beausage," a term he coined to mean "beauty through usage," or IOW don't 
> sweat all of the nicks and scratches, "just ride" your bike and be happy. 
>  
> The good news though is that there is a happy middle ground between the 
> complete over-the-top utility use of a bike (like Pam's), ignoring any 
> wear 
> and tear versus a finicky protectiveness, hovering over the bike at all 
> times and worrying about theft, damage, etc.  And in my way of thinking 
> that means "just ride" it for all it's worth, but don't just throw it in 
> the corner until the next ride, but take good care of it.  Another way of 
> saying that might be, "... take good care of it and it will take good 
> care 
> of you."
> 

Re: [RBW] Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[Jay Lonner]

I agree Joe - a bike with a single-leg kickstand isn't super stable and
will only tolerate so much weight before it topples, which acts like a sort
of pressure release mechanism that keeps the mounting plate from getting
too stressed. A bike with a double-leg kickstand is very stable, allowing
you to really load it up, and the constant rocking horse motion with a lot
of weight can torque the plate pretty easily. I also agree with the thought
stated earlier that the kickstand plates on Hunqs of my generation are
probably underengineered and prone to fail in this way. Jobst Brandt has
come up recently, I'd have loved to hear his thoughts on the matter!

In any case I've soured on double-leg kickstands, and have lived without a
kickstand of any sort for years now and don't really feel the lack.

Jay Lonner
Bellingham, WA

On Sat, Nov 5, 2022 at 10:12 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:

> I thought I'd bring this over here instead of continuing to hammer Leah's
> 'Using Your Rivendell' thread.
>
> Do we have any reports of plates separating from the stays from a
> single-leg kickstand, or are they all double-leggers? My experience with
> both is this:
>
> I used a double-legger on a Clem and could really load that bike up, I'm
> familiar with that rocking sensation of all the weight torquing on the
> stand. On my custom I use a single leg (the stock one that came on Clem
> completes a few years ago) and it's not very strong. It supports the bike
> fine and I can put a small shopping load in the bags, but as soon as I
> start to overdo it I can feel the bike getting wobbly like the stand wants
> to give out on me. My guess in this scenario is the single-legger is
> warning me before the plate gets too stressed, whilst the double will let
> you load all day until the plate gives up.
>
> Whaddyathink?
>
> Joe Bernard
>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

I was disturbed that that turn in the conversation. A kickstand plate isn’t 
something I’d thought one could wreck, but you know, Marc broke his 
kickstand plate on his Hunq; he mentioned it on our ride last week. Huh. 
Also, I snapped my kickstand on my way to the Philly Bike Expo. It was the 
strangest thing, and now I feel like I gotta really examine that kickstand 
plate to be sure nothing serious happened there. I had put the bike 
diagonally into my Honda van. It was upright, but to be safe, I put the 
kickstand down, hoping it would protect my Platypus from tipping. It rocked 
back and forth on the kickstand for the 10 hour drive and when I went to 
unload the bike, the kickstand had snapped. I still can’t figure out how 
exactly there was enough force to do that. My bike was completely unloaded. 
No harsh movements - just a repetitive rocking on the drive. Yikes.

On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 2:36:58 AM UTC-5 Jay Lonner wrote:

> I agree Joe - a bike with a single-leg kickstand isn't super stable and 
> will only tolerate so much weight before it topples, which acts like a sort 
> of pressure release mechanism that keeps the mounting plate from getting 
> too stressed. A bike with a double-leg kickstand is very stable, allowing 
> you to really load it up, and the constant rocking horse motion with a lot 
> of weight can torque the plate pretty easily. I also agree with the thought 
> stated earlier that the kickstand plates on Hunqs of my generation are 
> probably underengineered and prone to fail in this way. Jobst Brandt has 
> come up recently, I'd have loved to hear his thoughts on the matter!
>
> In any case I've soured on double-leg kickstands, and have lived without a 
> kickstand of any sort for years now and don't really feel the lack.
>
> Jay Lonner
> Bellingham, WA
>
> On Sat, Nov 5, 2022 at 10:12 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
>> I thought I'd bring this over here instead of continuing to hammer Leah's 
>> 'Using Your Rivendell' thread. 
>>
>> Do we have any reports of plates separating from the stays from a 
>> single-leg kickstand, or are they all double-leggers? My experience with 
>> both is this: 
>>
>> I used a double-legger on a Clem and could really load that bike up, I'm 
>> familiar with that rocking sensation of all the weight torquing on the 
>> stand. On my custom I use a single leg (the stock one that came on Clem 
>> completes a few years ago) and it's not very strong. It supports the bike 
>> fine and I can put a small shopping load in the bags, but as soon as I 
>> start to overdo it I can feel the bike getting wobbly like the stand wants 
>> to give out on me. My guess in this scenario is the single-legger is 
>> warning me before the plate gets too stressed, whilst the double will let 
>> you load all day until the plate gives up. 
>>
>> Whaddyathink? 
>>
>> Joe Bernard 
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/126fb362-b2df-4f0e-ad2f-b16a1cecadc1n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Using Your Rivendell Vs. Being Precious: A Spectrum

[Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY]

https://www.rivbike.com/products/pletscher-kickstand-hardware?variant=23336090241
This is the chainstay sandwicher that Rivendell sells, it takes pressure 
off the welds and puts it on the chainstays themselves. The only bad thing 
is that the over tightening of these will squish tubes, but that can be 
avoided by not over tightening. 
I don’t use a kickstand, but if I did, I’d use one of these plates…
And for the record, beater bikes are bunk, use the good one.
-Kai

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 11:37:19 PM UTC-4 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi Jay,
> Today, I just installed a double-legged kickstand on my Clem "L".  If I do 
> not carry a heavy loads on the back end of my bike, like you did, I should 
> be fine ?...regarding possible damage of separating the kickstand frame 
> plate. 
>
> Thank-you,
> Kim Hetzel
> Yelm, WA. 
>
> On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 6:39:40 PM UTC-7 Jay Lonner wrote:
>
>> No damage that I could detect. The kickstand plate isn’t integral to the 
>> frame, it’s just tacked on with some not-very-strong welds. I’m fairly 
>> certain it could be removed with only superficial damage to the paint, but 
>> then I’d have nothing to attach a fender to. 
>>
>> Jay Lonner
>> Bellingham, WA
>>
>> Sent from my Atari 400
>>
>> On Nov 5, 2022, at 6:13 PM, Piaw Na  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> No damage to the frame? Or did you have to get it repaired?
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 5, 2022 at 6:08 PM Jay Lonner  wrote:
>>
>> I don’t have a picture, just imagine the weld giving way and the plate 
>>> separating from the seat stays. I was using a double-legged kickstand at 
>>> the time and carrying a fair amount of cargo (see attached), and evidently 
>>> the seesawing action was enough to pry things loose. It bummed me out for 
>>> maybe half a day, but it’s been fine ever since, now I just use the 
>>> kickstand plate as a fender attachment point.
>>>
>>> Jay Lonner
>>> Bellingham, WA
>>>
>>> Sent from my Atari 400
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 5, 2022, at 5:54 PM, Piaw Na  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> What does a peeling mounting plate look like? Anyone have pictures? Not 
>>> that I have kickstands on any of my bikes --- the one on the triplet got 
>>> taken off ages ago... Just curious.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 5, 2022 at 5:49 PM Richard Rose  wrote:
>>>
 When I was talking to Will about getting a double legged kickstand he 
 warned me about the “peeling” mounting plate on the Clems. But, he thought 
 I would be ok they had beefed them up. So far so good.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Nov 5, 2022, at 7:44 PM, Jay Lonner  wrote:

 
 My Hunq is a daily driver and has the dings and scratches to show for 
 it. Probably the worst one is that the kickstand plate is pried partially 
 loose — no big deal, I just took the kickstand off and used the mounting 
 hardware to snug things back up. Worst case scenario for me is that 
 someday 
 I treat myself to a new paint job and maybe some frame modifications to go 
 along with it. 

 Jay Lonner
 Bellingham, WA

 Sent from my Atari 400

 On Nov 5, 2022, at 4:28 PM, George Schick  wrote:

 I haven't read Grant's Blahg on this matter (the ancient OS on my 
 computer is so out of date that I can't load certain websites), but what 
 he 
 has to say does not surprise me.  He's always been all about what he calls 
 "beausage," a term he coined to mean "beauty through usage," or IOW don't 
 sweat all of the nicks and scratches, "just ride" your bike and be happy.  
 The good news though is that there is a happy middle ground between the 
 complete over-the-top utility use of a bike (like Pam's), ignoring any 
 wear 
 and tear versus a finicky protectiveness, hovering over the bike at all 
 times and worrying about theft, damage, etc.  And in my way of thinking 
 that means "just ride" it for all it's worth, but don't just throw it in 
 the corner until the next ride, but take good care of it.  Another way of 
 saying that might be, "... take good care of it and it will take good care 
 of you."
 This is no different than what one might do having just bought a nice 
 new automobile and drives it everywhere, but also maintains it, washes and 
 waxes it regularly, and is careful where they park it.

 On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 6:14:45 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I love this topic! I had my custom designed to answer the question, 
> "What if I had all the qualities I love about Rivendells in a frame made 
> exactly for my size, weight and riding preferences?", and at first I was 
> super precious about it. Later I realized the whole point was to have a 
> perfect bike I could ride every day for everything and that's what I'm 
> doing.
>
> Of course I'm still absurdly touchy about scratching all that 
> beautiful Joe Bell paint but I don't let it stop me, I lock it up at

[RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY]

https://www.rivbike.com/products/pletscher-kickstand-hardware?variant=23336090241
Save the plate! Add some weight!
-Kai

On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 1:12:04 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I thought I'd bring this over here instead of continuing to hammer Leah's 
> 'Using Your Rivendell' thread. 
>
> Do we have any reports of plates separating from the stays from a 
> single-leg kickstand, or are they all double-leggers? My experience with 
> both is this: 
>
> I used a double-legger on a Clem and could really load that bike up, I'm 
> familiar with that rocking sensation of all the weight torquing on the 
> stand. On my custom I use a single leg (the stock one that came on Clem 
> completes a few years ago) and it's not very strong. It supports the bike 
> fine and I can put a small shopping load in the bags, but as soon as I 
> start to overdo it I can feel the bike getting wobbly like the stand wants 
> to give out on me. My guess in this scenario is the single-legger is 
> warning me before the plate gets too stressed, whilst the double will let 
> you load all day until the plate gives up. 
>
> Whaddyathink? 
>
> Joe Bernard 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Using Your Rivendell Vs. Being Precious: A Spectrum

[Richard Rose]

If your Clem is a newer one it should be fine. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 5, 2022, at 11:37 PM, Kim Hetzel  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi Jay,
> Today, I just installed a double-legged kickstand on my Clem "L".  If I do 
> not carry a heavy loads on the back end of my bike, like you did, I should be 
> fine ?...regarding possible damage of separating the kickstand frame plate. 
> 
> Thank-you,
> Kim Hetzel
> Yelm, WA. 
> 
>> On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 6:39:40 PM UTC-7 Jay Lonner wrote:
>> No damage that I could detect. The kickstand plate isn’t integral to the 
>> frame, it’s just tacked on with some not-very-strong welds. I’m fairly 
>> certain it could be removed with only superficial damage to the paint, but 
>> then I’d have nothing to attach a fender to. 
>> 
>> Jay Lonner
>> Bellingham, WA
>> 
>> Sent from my Atari 400
>> 
 On Nov 5, 2022, at 6:13 PM, Piaw Na  wrote:
 
>>> 
>> 
>>> No damage to the frame? Or did you have to get it repaired?
>>> 
>> 
>>> On Sat, Nov 5, 2022 at 6:08 PM Jay Lonner  wrote:
>> 
 I don’t have a picture, just imagine the weld giving way and the plate 
 separating from the seat stays. I was using a double-legged kickstand at 
 the time and carrying a fair amount of cargo (see attached), and evidently 
 the seesawing action was enough to pry things loose. It bummed me out for 
 maybe half a day, but it’s been fine ever since, now I just use the 
 kickstand plate as a fender attachment point.
 
 Jay Lonner
 Bellingham, WA
 
 Sent from my Atari 400
 
>> 
 
>> 
 
 
>> On Nov 5, 2022, at 5:54 PM, Piaw Na  wrote:
>> 
> 
> What does a peeling mounting plate look like? Anyone have pictures? Not 
> that I have kickstands on any of my bikes --- the one on the triplet got 
> taken off ages ago... Just curious.
> 
>> On Sat, Nov 5, 2022 at 5:49 PM Richard Rose  wrote:
>> When I was talking to Will about getting a double legged kickstand he 
>> warned me about the “peeling” mounting plate on the Clems. But, he 
>> thought I would be ok they had beefed them up. So far so good.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Nov 5, 2022, at 7:44 PM, Jay Lonner  wrote:
 
>>> 
>>> My Hunq is a daily driver and has the dings and scratches to show for 
>>> it. Probably the worst one is that the kickstand plate is pried 
>>> partially loose — no big deal, I just took the kickstand off and used 
>>> the mounting hardware to snug things back up. Worst case scenario for 
>>> me is that someday I treat myself to a new paint job and maybe some 
>>> frame modifications to go along with it. 
>>> 
>>> Jay Lonner
>>> Bellingham, WA
>>> 
>>> Sent from my Atari 400
>>> 
> On Nov 5, 2022, at 4:28 PM, George Schick  wrote:
> 
 I haven't read Grant's Blahg on this matter (the ancient OS on my 
 computer is so out of date that I can't load certain websites), but 
 what he has to say does not surprise me.  He's always been all about 
 what he calls "beausage," a term he coined to mean "beauty through 
 usage," or IOW don't sweat all of the nicks and scratches, "just ride" 
 your bike and be happy.  The good news though is that there is a happy 
 middle ground between the complete over-the-top utility use of a bike 
 (like Pam's), ignoring any wear and tear versus a finicky 
 protectiveness, hovering over the bike at all times and worrying about 
 theft, damage, etc.  And in my way of thinking that means "just ride" 
 it for all it's worth, but don't just throw it in the corner until the 
 next ride, but take good care of it.  Another way of saying that might 
 be, "... take good care of it and it will take good care of you."
 This is no different than what one might do having just bought a nice 
 new automobile and drives it everywhere, but also maintains it, washes 
 and waxes it regularly, and is careful where they park it.
 
> On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 6:14:45 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
> I love this topic! I had my custom designed to answer the question, 
> "What if I had all the qualities I love about Rivendells in a frame 
> made exactly for my size, weight and riding preferences?", and at 
> first I was super precious about it. Later I realized the whole point 
> was to have a perfect bike I could ride every day for everything and 
> that's what I'm doing.
> 
> Of course I'm still absurdly touchy about scratching all that 
> beautiful Joe Bell paint but I don't let it stop me, I lock it up at 
> Walmart, I fill the bags with laundry and go to the laundromat. 
> Because I want my bike to do all the things bikes do!
> 
> Joe Bernard 
> 
>> On

Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[Leah Peterson]

I read the product description which warns of over tightening and ruining the frame. And then I thought of my new phone handlebar mount that affixes to the bar like a vice and wondered if I’m ruining my Billie Bars! I find myself having to tighten it a smidge now and then, and I wonder if it’s because it’s mashing the aluminum Billie Bar. Can anyone offer an opinion here? (I got a new iPhone and it’s huge and heavy, for what it’s worth.)On Nov 6, 2022, at 7:10 AM, Kainalu V.  -Brooklyn NY  wrote:https://www.rivbike.com/products/pletscher-kickstand-hardware?variant=23336090241Save the plate! Add some weight!-KaiOn Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 1:12:04 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:I thought I'd bring this over here instead of continuing to hammer Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' thread. Do we have any reports of plates separating from the stays from a single-leg kickstand, or are they all double-leggers? My experience with both is this: I used a double-legger on a Clem and could really load that bike up, I'm familiar with that rocking sensation of all the weight torquing on the stand. On my custom I use a single leg (the stock one that came on Clem completes a few years ago) and it's not very strong. It supports the bike fine and I can put a small shopping load in the bags, but as soon as I start to overdo it I can feel the bike getting wobbly like the stand wants to give out on me. My guess in this scenario is the single-legger is warning me before the plate gets too stressed, whilst the double will let you load all day until the plate gives up. Whaddyathink? Joe Bernard 



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Re: [RBW] Re: Using Your Rivendell Vs. Being Precious: A Spectrum

[Garth]

 Everything is okay Leah. 




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Re: [RBW] Re: Using Your Rivendell Vs. Being Precious: A Spectrum

[Leah Peterson]

Thank you for your kind words, Jim. I’m glad you enjoy my silly posts because I enjoy writing them. 😊I am enjoying everyone’s responses and have had a lot to think about after reading them. It’s so true that one cannot just replace a Rivendell. The availability is one factor, the discontinuation of models and changes to existing models is another. The presale for the Platypus was April 2021, and only now, November 2022, has another shipment arrived. So, yes, not a quick replacement if the bike is wrecked or stolen. So, there are the above factors. And then there is choosing not to be precious about bikes. SO….what is everyone’s opinion of having a spare in a box? I told Pam Murray that she might be the first Rivendell customer in history to wear her bike into steel powder. And what would she do without her tiny 47 cm Betty? There was a Betty frame at a dealer that I thought she should purchase and keep in case her bike is damaged or stolen. I guess that is kind of my plan with my two Platys, too. If the raspberry goes missing, I’ll have the mermaid painted raspberry. I even have the color tube so the painter gets it right! And where did I get this idea? From my recurring nightmare. I used to have differing variations of the same dream. I used to have a One and Only, a Betty Foy, that I would dream would be stolen. I would look for it relentlessly and always, always, I would find a spare Betty frame in a box in the garage and all would be well. Same ending, every time. But this seems rather wasteful, doesn’t it? Just keeping a Rivendell in a box just in case? People will have opinions. I am interested to hear them.Lastly, I agree with Eric that there is beauty in a bike with miles on it. I want to keep mine nice, but I appreciate beausage. I am of two minds.LeahOn Nov 5, 2022, at 10:37 PM, J J  wrote:Thanks for starting this thread, Leah. I enjoy your writing… as I enjoy Grant’s. He’s very funny even when discussing serious things. At least I see some humor there, whether he intends it or not. Anyway, my daily ride is a Hunqapillar that I bought new about 11 years ago. I was precious about it for a hot minute, but a) I realized pretty quickly that it was futile and thus stressful to try to avoid dings and scratches; b) I reminded myself that a primary reason I got the Hunq was that I wanted a fun do-everything bike, an “all rounder plus”, the plus being that it is robust enough to carry me and any size load I wanted to haul, for as long as I want to haul it. So I use it in that way. I will take it grocery or farmers market shopping. I run errands with it. I use three or four locks. I used to occasionally commute to work on it (before my office went to mostly full-time remote work post-pandemic), but I realized that I do not enjoy commuting by bike. I live in a busy area in DC and the morning and afternoon rush hour commuting energy — definitely from cars, but also other bikers,  including the rushing, the noises, the risk taking, the aggressiveness — was turning one of my very favorite activities, riding a bike, into another source of stress. It was as if commuting by bike was starting to sully my relationship to my bike and to biking. And I did not want that. This sort of goes against Grant’s notion, or at least hope, that biking will be a huge part of people’s everyday lives. As far as a commute goes, it’s aspirational for me. I will do that when there are protected bike lanes and much fewer cars on the road. I am not keen on being a martyr for the cause of biking (or commuting!). The sort of change in road and bike infrastructure that I’d like to see (and I imagine most of us want) requires collective action, organizing, and so on. Individuals can only do so much. By the way, my bike’s kickstand mounting plate also “peeled” partway off. I sent photos of it to Riv and Will said: “yeah we see that on some of our bikes, best thing to do is to buy the kickstand mounting hardware and a long bolt to pass through the (peeled) plate.” I believe it was a very rare for Rivendell design or manufacturing misstep. The weld simply was not strong enough. The peeling exposed a big area of raw steel on a part of the bike that is most likely to get wet and mucked up. I just have to be mindful of it. No rust has developed, I clean and treat it regularly, and one day I’ll get it repaired and reinforced and repainted (I’ve been telling myself this for a few years now! — I just can’t stand to be without the bike even for a day. JimOn Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 9:13:39 PM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com wrote:No damage to the frame? Or did you have to get it repaired?On Sat, Nov 5, 2022 at 6:08 PM Jay Lonner  wrote:I don’t have a picture, just imagine the weld giving way and the plate separating from the seat stays. I was using a double-legged kickstand at the time and carrying a fair amount of cargo (see attached), and evidently the seesawing action was enough to pry things loose. It bummed me out for maybe half

[RBW] Re: Tires, tubes and Cliffhangers

[DavidP]

I have bikes with a variety of wheel sizes and mostly stock up on 27.5 
tubes as they work with 26-29" wheels. I try not to stray too much from the 
tube's recommended tire width though.

That said if the smaller 26" tube is preventing the tire beads from fitting 
into the center of the rim while mounting that will make things difficult.

Another thing to consider is that most tubeless rims are designed to have a 
tighter rim/tire interface. On tubeless rims I use tubeless tape as a rim 
strip even if I'm going to use tubes, as the added thickness of regular rim 
strips makes tire mounting more difficult.

-Dave
On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 11:52:32 PM UTC-4 jcbrya...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> I've not mounted the Homage, but I've mounted a wide array of tires to 
> Cliffhangers, both in 26 and 650b. Wire bead tires are fairly easy to 
> mount, especially with the depth of the well and the amount of internal 
> space. A bit harder time than I've had with other rims, but not so bad. 
> Tight-fitting tubeless tires can be quite difficult to mount, especially 
> when brand new, and especially with the use of a tube. I probably spent a 
> solid hour mounting WTB Byways, broke at least one tire lever, and worried 
> I was using so much force I was going to damage the rim, but it ended up 
> working out. However, with these tighter fits, I've found them quite easy 
> to set up tubeless.
>
> I recently mounted some Race Kings and the fit was so tight they held air 
> overnight before I added any sealant. I also find it easier to use a tube 
> to get things seated. I mount the tire normally with a tube, check for 
> proper seating, then leave it for a while pumped around max PSI, usually 
> just trying to get the weirdness out where they were folded up in the 
> packaging. Sometimes it takes a few days of riding. I then deflate and 
> remove the tube while leaving one side seated. Once it's out, I mount the 
> valve, push the side I opened back into the well, give it a strong blast of 
> air, and it usually pops right back into place. I've found it easiest to 
> add sealant through the valve (removable cores), versus pouring it into the 
> unmounted tire.
>
> With all this said, my experience tells me the Cliffhangers offer a solid, 
> tight fit for all the tires I've mounted. If you can get the simworks tires 
> to hold air without a tube, then I reckon you're halfway there. I'm not 
> sure of the safety of running standard tires tubeless, but I've read plenty 
> of stories about people's tubeless-compatible RH tires blowing off the rim, 
> so I'd bet it's no more dangerous than that.
>
> re: the Rene Herse/tube advice - they offer a lot of wisdom, but I try to 
> take everything they say with a grain of salt, remembering their primary 
> goal is to sell products. Despite their recommendations for their tires, I 
> don't think you can go wrong buying the "right size" tubes for the right 
> size tires. Sure, tubes do stretch, and it should work in theory, but I'm 
> not counting grams and I don't quite see the benefit of undersizing tubes 
> beyond that. The manufacturers have already done the work for me, spec'ing 
> tubes for tires, so I'm not going out of my way to try and outsmart them.
>
> Good luck with the tires! I hope you're able to get them mounted up.
>
> -J.C.
>
> On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 7:04:59 PM UTC-5 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Vague heading, sorry. Has anyone mounted Simworks Homage tires to 
>> Cliffhanger rims? The Homage is not "tubeless compatible" though plenty of 
>> folks have done it anyway. But I do not know about doing so with a 
>> Cliffhanger?
>> I am mounting mine with tubes, at least to start. But I ran into a 
>> problem. I was on the Rene Herse site and they supply 26" Schwalbe tubes 
>> for their 650B tires. They indicate they stretch to fit and do not even 
>> offer 27.5 tubes. Well, I tried. With a 26" tube it was impossible to mount 
>> the tire. After trying for about 40 minutes I tried it with a 27.5" tube - 
>> mounted easily. Why would Rene Herse suggest such a thing? Why did I 
>> believe them?
>> Anyway, I am looking forward to giving these 55mm beauties a go.
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Powder coated Clem H!

[Ryan Frahm]

Thank you Matthew! I definitely had to pay a bit more that just any old 
coated but the detail he was able to add was worth it to me. I really had 
no idea that was possible! He did some extra spots that weren’t done before 
but wasn’t able to do the top of the fork crown. Ashton Palmer, he’s in 
Post Falls ID and I would highly recommend him. If I had the time I would 
have stripped the frame myself so I could have done some extra prep work. 
But it still turned out even better than I expected!

https://www.palmerspowders.com 

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 9:17:10 PM UTC-7 Matthew Williams wrote:

> Wow, that looks amazing! Your powder-coater did a great job. Very, very 
> nice work. 
>
> I love the color! I especially dig the cream in the RBW windows on the 
> head tube. Nice touch!
>
> Who is your powdercoater?
>
>
>
> On Nov 5, 2022, at 5:25 PM, Ryan Frahm  wrote:
>
> <68C8C83C-74E2-48D6-9B55-6AEB160F7DAC.jpeg>
> 
>
>
>
>
> Waiting for the frame saver to fully dry before finishing building it back 
> up. I had to replace the fork and it was bare, decided to go for powder 
> since it is my commuter and ride in plenty of weather. I am amazed that he 
> was able to do the details and accents so well, super happy with how it 
> turned out!
>
> -- 
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> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/9fac389b-c568-4d4d-92d6-721741f6a14en%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 
> .
>
> 
> <68C8C83C-74E2-48D6-9B55-6AEB160F7DAC.jpeg>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Using Your Rivendell Vs. Being Precious: A Spectrum

[J]

I've always had a problem buying brand new "nice" things, or maybe better 
said I struggle to use brand new "nice" things as much as I want to use 
them for fear of causing damage. I blame it on having an impoverished 
childhood. Even though that has not been the case for the last 20 years 
since I became an adult, I still have the "resale value" thought floating 
above every big purchase. So I tend to buy 2nd hand whenever I can, even if 
it's pristine 2nd hand, and that resale value/use avoidance thought is 
usually quelled. All that said, I like to ride my bikes as much as possible 
and I can be rough on things in general, so the thought of keeping them 
beausage free isn't worth the worry. 

A few years ago my Waterford Sam H was stolen from my front porch, 2 
kryptonite U locks drilled out in the night. Insurance was quick to send me 
the funds for a new bike but how do you replace that bike? Once the 
replacement is purchased I was supposed to send them proof of purchase and 
it couldn't be a different kind of bike like a MTB or a different brand, 
they were adamant about this. This was also just before the pandemic so no 
supply chain shortage to blame. So I ended up buying something that I 
didn't really want or like all that much, could never make it comfortable 
and ended up not riding it at all. Fortunately I still had another bike 
that I did like so the desire to ride did not wane. So I do understand the 
fear of losing or damaging the one bike and the extra confidence having a 
back up bike(s) can inspire when contemplating the level us beausage one is 
willing to risk. 

As long as we are still riding is all that matter I think

On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 7:51:32 AM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> Thank you for your kind words, Jim. I’m glad you enjoy my silly posts 
> because I enjoy writing them. 😊
>
> I am enjoying everyone’s responses and have had a lot to think about after 
> reading them. It’s so true that one cannot just replace a Rivendell. The 
> availability is one factor, the discontinuation of models and changes to 
> existing models is another. The presale for the Platypus was April 2021, 
> and only now, November 2022, has another shipment arrived. So, yes, not a 
> quick replacement if the bike is wrecked or stolen. 
>
> So, there are the above factors. And then there is choosing not to be 
> precious about bikes. SO….what is everyone’s opinion of having a spare in a 
> box? 
>
> I told Pam Murray that she might be the first Rivendell customer in 
> history to wear her bike into steel powder. And what would she do without 
> her tiny 47 cm Betty? There was a Betty frame at a dealer that I thought 
> she should purchase and keep in case her bike is damaged or stolen. I guess 
> that is kind of my plan with my two Platys, too. If the raspberry goes 
> missing, I’ll have the mermaid painted raspberry. I even have the color 
> tube so the painter gets it right! And where did I get this idea? From my 
> recurring nightmare. I used to have differing variations of the same dream. 
> I used to have a One and Only, a Betty Foy, that I would dream would be 
> stolen. I would look for it relentlessly and always, always, I would find a 
> spare Betty frame in a box in the garage and all would be well. Same 
> ending, every time. But this seems rather wasteful, doesn’t it? Just 
> keeping a Rivendell in a box just in case? People will have opinions. I am 
> interested to hear them.
>
> Lastly, I agree with Eric that there is beauty in a bike with miles on it. 
> I want to keep mine nice, but I appreciate beausage. I am of two minds.
> Leah
>
> On Nov 5, 2022, at 10:37 PM, J J  wrote:
>
> Thanks for starting this thread, Leah. I enjoy your writing… as I enjoy 
> Grant’s. He’s very funny even when discussing serious things. At least I 
> see some humor there, whether he intends it or not. 
>
>
> Anyway, my daily ride is a Hunqapillar that I bought new about 11 years 
> ago. I was precious about it for a hot minute, but a) I realized pretty 
> quickly that it was futile and thus stressful to try to avoid dings and 
> scratches; b) I reminded myself that a primary reason I got the Hunq was 
> that I wanted a fun do-everything bike, an “all rounder plus”, the plus 
> being that it is robust enough to carry me and any size load I wanted to 
> haul, for as long as I want to haul it. 
>
> So I use it in that way. I will take it grocery or farmers market 
> shopping. I run errands with it. I use three or four locks. I used to 
> occasionally commute to work on it (before my office went to mostly 
> full-time remote work post-pandemic), but I realized that I do not enjoy 
> *commuting* by bike. I live in a busy area in DC and the morning and 
> afternoon rush hour commuting *energy* — definitely from cars, but also 
> other bikers,  including the rushing, the noises, the risk taking, the 
> aggressiveness — was turning one of my very favorite activities, riding a 
> bike, into another

Re: [RBW] Re: Using Your Rivendell Vs. Being Precious: A Spectrum

[藍俊彪]

While getting a new Rivendell bicycle is a long wait, the demand for
bicycles has dropped a ton since the pandemic. The worst case scenario is
that you take the geometry (save a copy of the geometry chart) and get a
custom builder to build you one. It won't have the fancy lugs, decals or
headset, but it will ride pretty much the same. One of my friends tried a
Rivendell Roadeo at the Walnut Creek shop and got out his checkbook to buy
it, but since it was their last demo frame they wouldn't sell it to him. So
he called up Lynskey and got them to build him a custom ti frame with the
Roadeo geometry. The irony of ironies was that the day after he got the ti
bike built up Rivendell sent around an e-mail saying they'd decided to sell
that demo frame! But he's been very happy with that ti frame since.

To be honest I've never managed to ride a steel frame until it breaks. I
did have a car hit me and destroy my bridgestone RB-1, but that's a
different story. I've broken rack dropouts and ripped front derailleurs off
by shifting at the wrong time. I've even torn teeth off aluminum chainrings
and sheared off bolts on a crank by mis-timing a shift, but steel frames
well built survive a good long time. You'd have to ride as long and as hard
as the infamous Jobst Brandt (and bear in mind he was tall and heavy!) to
crack a steel frame. Even then he could find a framebuilder who would just
add gussetts to the frame, repair it and keep riding.

On Sun, Nov 6, 2022 at 4:51 AM Leah Peterson 
wrote:

> Thank you for your kind words, Jim. I’m glad you enjoy my silly posts
> because I enjoy writing them. 😊
>
> I am enjoying everyone’s responses and have had a lot to think about after
> reading them. It’s so true that one cannot just replace a Rivendell. The
> availability is one factor, the discontinuation of models and changes to
> existing models is another. The presale for the Platypus was April 2021,
> and only now, November 2022, has another shipment arrived. So, yes, not a
> quick replacement if the bike is wrecked or stolen.
>
> So, there are the above factors. And then there is choosing not to be
> precious about bikes. SO….what is everyone’s opinion of having a spare in a
> box?
>
> I told Pam Murray that she might be the first Rivendell customer in
> history to wear her bike into steel powder. And what would she do without
> her tiny 47 cm Betty? There was a Betty frame at a dealer that I thought
> she should purchase and keep in case her bike is damaged or stolen. I guess
> that is kind of my plan with my two Platys, too. If the raspberry goes
> missing, I’ll have the mermaid painted raspberry. I even have the color
> tube so the painter gets it right! And where did I get this idea? From my
> recurring nightmare. I used to have differing variations of the same dream.
> I used to have a One and Only, a Betty Foy, that I would dream would be
> stolen. I would look for it relentlessly and always, always, I would find a
> spare Betty frame in a box in the garage and all would be well. Same
> ending, every time. But this seems rather wasteful, doesn’t it? Just
> keeping a Rivendell in a box just in case? People will have opinions. I am
> interested to hear them.
>
> Lastly, I agree with Eric that there is beauty in a bike with miles on it.
> I want to keep mine nice, but I appreciate beausage. I am of two minds.
> Leah
>
> On Nov 5, 2022, at 10:37 PM, J J  wrote:
>
> Thanks for starting this thread, Leah. I enjoy your writing… as I enjoy
> Grant’s. He’s very funny even when discussing serious things. At least I
> see some humor there, whether he intends it or not.
>
> Anyway, my daily ride is a Hunqapillar that I bought new about 11 years
> ago. I was precious about it for a hot minute, but a) I realized pretty
> quickly that it was futile and thus stressful to try to avoid dings and
> scratches; b) I reminded myself that a primary reason I got the Hunq was
> that I wanted a fun do-everything bike, an “all rounder plus”, the plus
> being that it is robust enough to carry me and any size load I wanted to
> haul, for as long as I want to haul it.
>
> So I use it in that way. I will take it grocery or farmers market
> shopping. I run errands with it. I use three or four locks. I used to
> occasionally commute to work on it (before my office went to mostly
> full-time remote work post-pandemic), but I realized that I do not enjoy
> *commuting* by bike. I live in a busy area in DC and the morning and
> afternoon rush hour commuting *energy* — definitely from cars, but also
> other bikers,  including the rushing, the noises, the risk taking, the
> aggressiveness — was turning one of my very favorite activities, riding a
> bike, into another source of stress. It was as if commuting by bike was
> starting to sully my relationship to my bike and to biking. And I did not
> want that.
>
> This sort of goes against Grant’s notion, or at least hope, that biking
> will be a huge part of people’s everyday lives. As far as a commute g

Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[Marc Irwin]

I did break the kickstand plate on my Hunq the first year I had it.  I'm 
not sure what exactly caused it, but I was using a Pletscher two legged 
kickstand on several overnight and week long tours.  The bike was heavily 
loaded and I had never trimmed the length of the kickstand legs.  I suspect 
the extra leverage and weight was enough to tear the plate from the 
brazing.  Riv offered to replace the plate if I shipped the bike back, but 
I had them send me a new plate so I could have it done locally.  I decided 
against it because it was not a structural defect and just went without.

Marc

On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 8:42:51 AM UTC-5 J J wrote:

> Thanks for kicking the kickstand plates to a new thread, Joe!! I'm sorry I 
> veered off your original topic, Leah!
>
> I looked back at the email exchanges I had with Riv about the severed 
> plate. Below I included the photo I had sent them.
>
> Their responses were interesting: 
>
>1. The kickstand plate on Hunq is *designed for the singles* (my 
>emphasis added)
>2. The doubles have more torque and are heavier so it tends to peel 
>the plate back after a lot of use. 
>3. Yes, you can definitely just use the chainstay sandwich set and 
>it'll be problem solved. Run the long bolt through the plate and it'll be 
>good to go. It's not a load bearing connection so don't worry about it 
>peeling back. 
>4. A competent welder could fix it easily, but I wouldn't even worry 
>about it.
>
> What I wonder about is at what point Rivendell determined that the plate 
> was designed for single kickstands on the Hunq. I suspect they were 
> surprised  to see numerous instances of these peeling plate problems 
> because Riv tends to over-engineer and overbuild things. If it was 
> *originally* designed for singles, I don’t think Riv would have sold me a 
> double and installed it on my Hunq as part of my original purchase order, 
> parts list they recommended, and build they did for me. 
>
> Whether designed for single or double kickstands, I did not take any 
> chances on subsequent bikes in this household: on the Wilbury I used a 
> chainstay sandwich mounting set even though it is a single kickstand. (See 
> second photo.) It's not as elegant as mounting directly to the built-on 
> plate, but it does give some peace of mind.
>
> Leah, as far as your phone mount goes, I think your bars are probably safe 
> if you're tightening it by hand. Even if your forearms are as strong as 
> Popeye's, I suspect that the mount itself would break before you could 
> torque it down enough by hand to impact the Billie bars. The chainstay 
> mashing can happen with sufficient torque that can only come from the 
> leverage you can get with a wrench. I'm not sure even Popeye could mash the 
> steel chain stays by hand :) 
>
>
> [image: Hunq kickstand plate.jpg]
>
> [image: Wilbury kickstand.jpg]
>
> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 7:33:20 AM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> I read the product description which warns of over tightening and ruining 
>> the frame. And then I thought of my new phone handlebar mount that affixes 
>> to the bar like a vice and wondered if I’m ruining my Billie Bars! I find 
>> myself having to tighten it a smidge now and then, and I wonder if it’s 
>> because it’s mashing the aluminum Billie Bar. Can anyone offer an opinion 
>> here? (I got a new iPhone and it’s huge and heavy, for what it’s worth.)
>> [image: image0.jpeg]
>>
>> On Nov 6, 2022, at 7:10 AM, Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY  
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> https://www.rivbike.com/products/pletscher-kickstand-hardware?variant=23336090241
>>
>> Save the plate! Add some weight!
>> -Kai
>>
>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 1:12:04 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> I thought I'd bring this over here instead of continuing to hammer 
>>> Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' thread. 
>>>
>>> Do we have any reports of plates separating from the stays from a 
>>> single-leg kickstand, or are they all double-leggers? My experience with 
>>> both is this: 
>>>
>>> I used a double-legger on a Clem and could really load that bike up, I'm 
>>> familiar with that rocking sensation of all the weight torquing on the 
>>> stand. On my custom I use a single leg (the stock one that came on Clem 
>>> completes a few years ago) and it's not very strong. It supports the bike 
>>> fine and I can put a small shopping load in the bags, but as soon as I 
>>> start to overdo it I can feel the bike getting wobbly like the stand wants 
>>> to give out on me. My guess in this scenario is the single-legger is 
>>> warning me before the plate gets too stressed, whilst the double will let 
>>> you load all day until the plate gives up. 
>>>
>>> Whaddyathink? 
>>>
>>> Joe Bernard 
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[Piaw Na]

I'm curious as to how much load you folks are putting on the kickstand? 
When I bought my triplet/quad Co-Motion Periscope Trident, the shop talked 
me into letting them install a kickstand. My son was 3.5 years old at the 
time. After about 3 years of use the kickstand bent and I ditched it and 
haven't missed it whatsoever. It rattled, worked itself loose, and simply 
wasn't worth the effort (it was a double-legged Pletscher), but the 
kickstand plate never had an issue. Bear in mind that the triplet was 65 
pounds empty, and when loaded with a touring load would exceed 80 pounds. I 
know Rivendells have a reputation for being heavy but I doubt if any of 
them compare to my Co-Motion.

On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 5:42:51 AM UTC-8 J J wrote:

> Thanks for kicking the kickstand plates to a new thread, Joe!! I'm sorry I 
> veered off your original topic, Leah!
>
> I looked back at the email exchanges I had with Riv about the severed 
> plate. Below I included the photo I had sent them.
>
> Their responses were interesting: 
>
>1. The kickstand plate on Hunq is *designed for the singles* (my 
>emphasis added)
>2. The doubles have more torque and are heavier so it tends to peel 
>the plate back after a lot of use. 
>3. Yes, you can definitely just use the chainstay sandwich set and 
>it'll be problem solved. Run the long bolt through the plate and it'll be 
>good to go. It's not a load bearing connection so don't worry about it 
>peeling back. 
>4. A competent welder could fix it easily, but I wouldn't even worry 
>about it.
>
> What I wonder about is at what point Rivendell determined that the plate 
> was designed for single kickstands on the Hunq. I suspect they were 
> surprised  to see numerous instances of these peeling plate problems 
> because Riv tends to over-engineer and overbuild things. If it was 
> *originally* designed for singles, I don’t think Riv would have sold me a 
> double and installed it on my Hunq as part of my original purchase order, 
> parts list they recommended, and build they did for me. 
>
> Whether designed for single or double kickstands, I did not take any 
> chances on subsequent bikes in this household: on the Wilbury I used a 
> chainstay sandwich mounting set even though it is a single kickstand. (See 
> second photo.) It's not as elegant as mounting directly to the built-on 
> plate, but it does give some peace of mind.
>
> Leah, as far as your phone mount goes, I think your bars are probably safe 
> if you're tightening it by hand. Even if your forearms are as strong as 
> Popeye's, I suspect that the mount itself would break before you could 
> torque it down enough by hand to impact the Billie bars. The chainstay 
> mashing can happen with sufficient torque that can only come from the 
> leverage you can get with a wrench. I'm not sure even Popeye could mash the 
> steel chain stays by hand :) 
>
>
> [image: Hunq kickstand plate.jpg]
>
> [image: Wilbury kickstand.jpg]
>
> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 7:33:20 AM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> I read the product description which warns of over tightening and ruining 
>> the frame. And then I thought of my new phone handlebar mount that affixes 
>> to the bar like a vice and wondered if I’m ruining my Billie Bars! I find 
>> myself having to tighten it a smidge now and then, and I wonder if it’s 
>> because it’s mashing the aluminum Billie Bar. Can anyone offer an opinion 
>> here? (I got a new iPhone and it’s huge and heavy, for what it’s worth.)
>> [image: image0.jpeg]
>>
>> On Nov 6, 2022, at 7:10 AM, Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY  
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> https://www.rivbike.com/products/pletscher-kickstand-hardware?variant=23336090241
>>
>> Save the plate! Add some weight!
>> -Kai
>>
>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 1:12:04 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> I thought I'd bring this over here instead of continuing to hammer 
>>> Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' thread. 
>>>
>>> Do we have any reports of plates separating from the stays from a 
>>> single-leg kickstand, or are they all double-leggers? My experience with 
>>> both is this: 
>>>
>>> I used a double-legger on a Clem and could really load that bike up, I'm 
>>> familiar with that rocking sensation of all the weight torquing on the 
>>> stand. On my custom I use a single leg (the stock one that came on Clem 
>>> completes a few years ago) and it's not very strong. It supports the bike 
>>> fine and I can put a small shopping load in the bags, but as soon as I 
>>> start to overdo it I can feel the bike getting wobbly like the stand wants 
>>> to give out on me. My guess in this scenario is the single-legger is 
>>> warning me before the plate gets too stressed, whilst the double will let 
>>> you load all day until the plate gives up. 
>>>
>>> Whaddyathink? 
>>>
>>> Joe Bernard 
>>>
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[RBW] Re: Using Your Rivendell Vs. Being Precious: A Spectrum

[lconley]

I am a bit of both. I have a lot of bikes and Rivs. When I was younger and 
only had one bike, it was a full Campagnolo, Reynolds 531 Schwinn Paramount 
P-15 (still have it). I didn't always own shoes back then, but I had my 
Paramount, I rode it everywhere, to school (college), work, 120 miles back 
and forth between Daytona Beach and Gainesville, everywhere. It has been 
repainted once (by me, in the 80's) and is scratched and chipped, but no 
dings and the chain and gears are clean. I used the F&R Kirtland panniers 
and handlebar bag until and past when they had holes in them. I am very 
careful with my bikes and try never to let them get damaged, but I do use 
them, but due to the number of bikes (down to 25 total, 12 Rivs) none of 
them sees much use anymore. I am kind of afraid of kickstands outdoors 
sometimes, because I have had bikes blow over (my wife's Betty Foy most 
recently) and damage the seat and grips, but that is life. I don't like it, 
but I don't loose sleep over it after it has happened. The bike that has 
seen the most use this year is the Mystery Bike / Protoveloosa single speed 
and it is, I am ashamed to say, dirty (lots of riding on the dirt/limestone 
levees). I grew up riding in Daytona Beach, and if you did not maintain 
your bike, it would rust away. A lot of what people call beausage, I would 
call abuse. I have not owned or used a bike rack on a car since my rooftop 
bike rack took flight on the Interstate in Iowa with the Paramount back in 
1980. I put the bike inside the vehicle now (three cheers for the Honda 
Element and the Honda Fit).

I respect a well-used, but well-maintained bike. The chain and chainrings 
and cogs should be reasonably clean. I touch up paint chips with matching 
(as close as I can get) paint. I don't put stickers on my paint. 

Laing
Delray Beach FL

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 6:15:18 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> Did you read Grant’s Blahg? He covers a lot of ground, but most notable to 
> me was the Please Don’t Be Precious About Your Rivendell section. In sum, 
> Grant is saying it saddens him to think of people riding beater bikes 
> instead of their Rivendells to do daily, monotonous tasks - because those 
> tasks make up a lot of real life. If one “saves” their Rivendell, it will 
> not realize its potential, sit mostly unused and then pass to one’s heirs 
> who will sell it in “near mint” condition on EBay, and how sad. What was 
> the bike for?
>
> I have found myself both guilty and innocent on the matter. My #1 favorite 
> bike is my raspberry Platypus. I ride it all the time, because I bought it 
> to ride it, but I also dread any harm coming to it, and I do guard it from 
> that. I got a second Platypus that I dedicated to shopping and traveling 
> with and promised not to be precious about it. But now and then I still am 
> tempted to backslide. When traveling to the Philly Bike Expo I dithered 
> about which bike to bring. I didn’t want my raspberry Platy damaged while 
> locked up at racks and I feared it being stolen. Roberta said, “I don’t 
> think you have a choice, Leah. That’s the bike people will expect you to 
> bring.” And she was right, and I did. 
>
> Then, there is Pam. Pam is at the other far end of the spectrum. Her bike 
> is a model of beausage. Innumerable paint chips and little spots of rust 
> cover her tiny Betty frame. Her Backabike bags are full of holes and the 
> elastic closures are worn out. She locks it up and never worries about it. 
> She did not obsessively stare out the restaurant window to see if it was 
> still locked to the rack while we were at dinner (like yours truly). But 
> she loves her bike, has real affection for it. She looked at me, eyes 
> shining, and said exactly that. Ana, PurpleRiv, is another good example to 
> us. She adores her bike, but has not spared it from hard work. Her bike has 
> hauled obscene loads and taken her everywhere. I remember there was that 
> one fateful camping trip for she 1. Posed it for a photo, only to have it 
> topple and slide down the face of a boulder next to it. I believe she said 
> she sat there and wept for 2 hours over her Joe Bell paint. And who among 
> us would not do the same? 2. Same trip, another photo op, and the bike fell 
> off a cliff. 
>
> So, who truly loves their Rivendell? The one who lavishes it with care and 
> protection? Or the one who pulls it out of the garage and into all of life 
> - the mundane and the adventurous? 
>
> On one end of the spectrum we have those who will only take a Rivendell 
> out for special occasions so as not to spoil it, and on the other…well, we 
> have Pam and Ana, who will give it a good thrashing. (Oh, don’t take it 
> personally, friends, I’m being funny about both types of owners.)
>
> I find myself wanting to be precious but fighting it and succeeding *most* 
> of the time. I’m lucky that the raspberry paint hides beausage and dirt, so 
> it looks pretty new. But a dent in the to

[RBW] Re: Using Your Rivendell Vs. Being Precious: A Spectrum

[aeroperf]

No spare bike in a box for me.  My second bike is fully built up so that if 
my Sam does come up lame or missing, I have something else immediately.  If 
I don’t get the Sam back, I can say “I once had a Rivendell, and it was a 
marvelous ride”.

I have an ’82 Team Fuji road bike that I got in ’86 and rode for many 
years.  I adjusted the bike to fit me, and the bike adjusted me to fit it. 
 It was a marvelous ride.  But eventually it became uncomfortable, 
especially after I got a couple of pins put in my back.  If I had a spare 
’82 Team Fuji in a box, it still wouldn’t ride as well as the original did 
40 years ago (or my Sam does today), because I’ve changed.

Likewise, my wife has ridden a KTM heavy touring bike for twenty years. 
 Now that we’re getting older, it doesn’t fit as well as it used to, and 
hence she wants a Platypus.  Another KTM frame in a box wouldn’t fix the 
uncomfortablilty [ok, that’s not a word but you get the gist].  Will she 
enjoy riding the Platypus, or think “I once had an aluminum KTM with full 
shocks, and it was a marvelous ride.”?

So, lots of things to consider.  Pam Murray might want to try a custom 
after wearing her Betty to powder.  Or maybe (Heresy!) a different brand. 
 Beware the “Cult of Riv”.  And record the geometry, not only from Riv’s 
site, but from places like BikeInsights which can give you stack and reach 
and trail.  Use that to get a spare now if you can have more than one bike.


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[RBW] FS: Reyn Spooner, MUSA shorts, gloves, wool, cashmere

[Eric Marth]

Hi everyone. I have a few things for sale and a few things for free today. 

Prices below do not include actual shipping to you. All prices are net to 
me, PayPal Friends & Family or Venmo.

Pictures are here. 


Thanks!

01. Reyn Spooner pullover, $25
Made in Hawaii, blend of cotton and poly. Nice tight floral print. It's a 
pullover with a chest pocket, doesn't button all the way down. These have 
appeared in the Riv blog and tumblr in the past and maybe Harry has like 70 
of them? It's 23" pit to pit and 30" from top of shoulder to bottom hem. 

02. Rivendell MUSA shorts, $40
These are a size small and they have been modified for a 6" inseam. Much 
less baggy than the standard-issue Riv MUSA shorts as a result. The MUSA 
label was lost in the process. While labeled a small I'm a 34" waist and 
these fit, a little snug but I did not find them uncomfortable. Good 
elastic in the belt. Button missing from rear right pocket, other button 
intact. Front pockets are nylon, not mesh like more recent versions. No 
issues. Reflectors at back.

03. Bear Bottom shorts, $10
A cotton and spandex blend, these have a 5.5" inseam. Pretty trim fit (not 
billowy). Lots of stretch at the waist, they measure 13" laid flat. I'm a 
34" waist and they fit me. Good as non-kit riding shorts. 

04. Pearl Izumi Gavia gloves, $15
These are in nice shape, labeled a size large. Here's the description from 
manufacturer: "Designed with AmFIB® and AmFIB® Block fabric combination for 
water and wind protection the Pearl izumi Gavia Glove is a versatile glove 
for cooler weather. Made with a Silicone screened palm for ultimate 
performance grip and articulated with a Neoprene stretch wrist gusset for 
ease of movement. This glove offers both flexibility and comfort with a 
low-profile wrist closure and locking zipper. The soft Microfleece wiping 
surface makes for easy maintenance.Contents: 60% Nylon / 25% Polyester / 5% 
Neoprene / 5% Synthetic Leather / 5% Polyurethane." 

05. Costco/Kirkland Cashmere, free for shipping
It's a size medium, 100% cashmere sweater. With plenty of holes! Lots of 
holes. More than you're thinking. Still a nice soft layer, good for fall. 
Pit to pit is 22", overall length is 27". I got this used, it came with the 
holes, I store my wool properly. 

06. Smartwool balaclava, free for shipping
It's a 100% merino wool balaclava with lots of holes! I inserted a map to 
try and highlight the holes. I've worn this in the cold and the holes don't 
actually seem to be a problem. I got this used, it came with the holes. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[Eric Floden]

The plate came off my Bomba this year. I am far from the first owner, but I
only used it with a two-legged stand,
and never with more than a light load on the bike

Signed

Ilene
EricF Vancouver

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Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[aeroperf]

It is certainly not just Riv bikes.
My second bike is a Soma Saga Disc, which has the same geometry as my Sam 
but with a slightly lower top tube.
They even warn about the problem (first and last paragraphs):
https://www.somafab.com/archives/product/saga-disc-frame-set-2

I use Kai's solution on the Sam.  No hint of a problem yet.

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[RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[lconley]

Now y'all got me thinking. My cargo bike is a first shipment Clementine. I 
had been using a double kickstand with a sandwich plate, but when I filed 
the hole in the plate off-center to let the double kickstand offset to 
clear the 2.15 tire better, I went back to the allen bolt. So now I got the 
Dremel tool out and worked on one side of the sandwich plate so that I can 
use it with the offset kickstand. I wish the sandwich plates were wider. 
Probably need a little more grinding.

[image: kicks.jpg]

The kickstand plate on my Gus is definitely thicker and already has an 
offset hole - I use a single kickstand on it.

Laing

On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 1:12:04 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I thought I'd bring this over here instead of continuing to hammer Leah's 
> 'Using Your Rivendell' thread. 
>
> Do we have any reports of plates separating from the stays from a 
> single-leg kickstand, or are they all double-leggers? My experience with 
> both is this: 
>
> I used a double-legger on a Clem and could really load that bike up, I'm 
> familiar with that rocking sensation of all the weight torquing on the 
> stand. On my custom I use a single leg (the stock one that came on Clem 
> completes a few years ago) and it's not very strong. It supports the bike 
> fine and I can put a small shopping load in the bags, but as soon as I 
> start to overdo it I can feel the bike getting wobbly like the stand wants 
> to give out on me. My guess in this scenario is the single-legger is 
> warning me before the plate gets too stressed, whilst the double will let 
> you load all day until the plate gives up. 
>
> Whaddyathink? 
>
> Joe Bernard 
>

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[RBW] Re: Using Your Rivendell Vs. Being Precious: A Spectrum

[Ted Durant]

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 5:15:18 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> Where are you on the spectrum? What words of wisdom might you have? What 
> strategies do you employ? Do you want to change? Or are you 
> unapologetically staying put on the matter? It might be fun to hear 
> perspectives.
>
> I'm in the "lucky to be able to afford several bikes for lots of different 
purposes" camp. I don't obsess over them as precious objects - none of them 
are "collector" bikes that will make my kids millionaires. I do, however, 
like to keep them clean and well maintained. (Chain waxing is easy and 
therapeutic.)  My wife and I gave each other a Santana tandem for our 
wedding and rode it around Vermont for our honeymoon. Over the years of 
riding, carrying it in or on the car, putting the kid converter on it, 
getting hit by a car while towing our infant daughter in a Burley trailer 
(!!!), it gathered its fair share of beausage. For our 30th wedding 
anniversary we gave it a fresh paint job in Waterford French Blue and a 
bunch of new parts. It's doing lighter duty, now, and staying pretty. 
That's the thing about steel-framed bikes, right? You can have it both ways 
over time.

My Rivendell Road just had a visit to the chiropractor. A week ago a 
low-flying hawk took my front wheel out from under me. The scratches will 
remain, but it's sure nice to have the frame straight again. Another 25 
years and maybe I'll get it painted again, but I'll keep the Joe Bell paint 
on there as long as I can.

My "errand" bike (complete with twin-leg kickstand, but no plate!) is a 
custom Terraferma designed originally for brevets. The geometry is perfect 
for carrying a bunch of stuff in the basket on the front. I keep it 
reasonably clean, but it lives in the garage and is going to be riding on 
salty streets soon.

This thread could easily occur on a Porsche mailing list, too. My Boxster 
is definitely not "precious"!

Ted Durant
Milwaukee, WI USA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[Joe Bernard]

Seconding Jim's thoughts about your phone mount. I see a turn-by-hand screw 
and plastic clamp, you'll break the clamp before crushing the bar if you 
ever screwed it down that hard. 

A little blue Loctite on the threads of that screw should keep it tight. 

On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 4:33:20 AM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> I read the product description which warns of over tightening and ruining 
> the frame. And then I thought of my new phone handlebar mount that affixes 
> to the bar like a vice and wondered if I’m ruining my Billie Bars! I find 
> myself having to tighten it a smidge now and then, and I wonder if it’s 
> because it’s mashing the aluminum Billie Bar. Can anyone offer an opinion 
> here? (I got a new iPhone and it’s huge and heavy, for what it’s worth.)
> [image: image0.jpeg]
>
> On Nov 6, 2022, at 7:10 AM, Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY  
> wrote:
>
> 
> https://www.rivbike.com/products/pletscher-kickstand-hardware?variant=23336090241
>
> Save the plate! Add some weight!
> -Kai
>
> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 1:12:04 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> I thought I'd bring this over here instead of continuing to hammer Leah's 
>> 'Using Your Rivendell' thread. 
>>
>> Do we have any reports of plates separating from the stays from a 
>> single-leg kickstand, or are they all double-leggers? My experience with 
>> both is this: 
>>
>> I used a double-legger on a Clem and could really load that bike up, I'm 
>> familiar with that rocking sensation of all the weight torquing on the 
>> stand. On my custom I use a single leg (the stock one that came on Clem 
>> completes a few years ago) and it's not very strong. It supports the bike 
>> fine and I can put a small shopping load in the bags, but as soon as I 
>> start to overdo it I can feel the bike getting wobbly like the stand wants 
>> to give out on me. My guess in this scenario is the single-legger is 
>> warning me before the plate gets too stressed, whilst the double will let 
>> you load all day until the plate gives up. 
>>
>> Whaddyathink? 
>>
>> Joe Bernard 
>>
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>  
> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[Kim Hetzel]

I thank-you Joe Bernard for diverting Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' thread 
into a separate thread about "Kickstand plates, what's up with that ?"

Upon you doing this, your timing is perfect. Like I mentioned previously, I 
just installed my new Pletscher two legged kickstand and the new rubber 
shoes for the feet of the stand on my Clem Smith Jr. "L" bike. I had the 
same set-up on my 2008 Surly Long Haul Trucker with no issues in the short 
time that I owned it. 

I am very grateful to read all the valuable input and experiences with 
their kickstand plates. 

What I plan on doing is to remove my Pletscher two legged kickstand and put 
the single kickstand back on my bike for the time being. I am going to 
order the Pletscher kickstand hardware from Rivendell and install the 
rubber chain stay protectors with the long bolt and reinstall the two 
legged kickstand. I want to preserve my kickstand plate being the third 
owner in less than a year. 

Kim Hetzel
Yelm, WA.

On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 11:10:44 AM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Seconding Jim's thoughts about your phone mount. I see a turn-by-hand 
> screw and plastic clamp, you'll break the clamp before crushing the bar if 
> you ever screwed it down that hard. 
>
> A little blue Loctite on the threads of that screw should keep it tight. 
>
> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 4:33:20 AM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> I read the product description which warns of over tightening and ruining 
>> the frame. And then I thought of my new phone handlebar mount that affixes 
>> to the bar like a vice and wondered if I’m ruining my Billie Bars! I find 
>> myself having to tighten it a smidge now and then, and I wonder if it’s 
>> because it’s mashing the aluminum Billie Bar. Can anyone offer an opinion 
>> here? (I got a new iPhone and it’s huge and heavy, for what it’s worth.)
>> [image: image0.jpeg]
>>
>> On Nov 6, 2022, at 7:10 AM, Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY  
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> https://www.rivbike.com/products/pletscher-kickstand-hardware?variant=23336090241
>>
>> Save the plate! Add some weight!
>> -Kai
>>
>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 1:12:04 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> I thought I'd bring this over here instead of continuing to hammer 
>>> Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' thread. 
>>>
>>> Do we have any reports of plates separating from the stays from a 
>>> single-leg kickstand, or are they all double-leggers? My experience with 
>>> both is this: 
>>>
>>> I used a double-legger on a Clem and could really load that bike up, I'm 
>>> familiar with that rocking sensation of all the weight torquing on the 
>>> stand. On my custom I use a single leg (the stock one that came on Clem 
>>> completes a few years ago) and it's not very strong. It supports the bike 
>>> fine and I can put a small shopping load in the bags, but as soon as I 
>>> start to overdo it I can feel the bike getting wobbly like the stand wants 
>>> to give out on me. My guess in this scenario is the single-legger is 
>>> warning me before the plate gets too stressed, whilst the double will let 
>>> you load all day until the plate gives up. 
>>>
>>> Whaddyathink? 
>>>
>>> Joe Bernard 
>>>
>> -- 
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>> 
>> .
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[Joe Bernard]

[ I thank-you Joe Bernard for diverting Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' 
thread into a separate thread about "Kickstand plates, what's up with that 
?" ]

I'm always here to help! 🙋‍♂️ Or annoy people, depending on your POV! 😂

I'm definitely going to keep my one-legger and try not to snap anything. I 
tried kickstandless for a few weeks and it drove me nuts trying to figure 
out how to part my bike with scraping it on poles and walls. Kickstands for 
me! 

On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 2:03:43 PM UTC-8 Kim Hetzel wrote:

> I thank-you Joe Bernard for diverting Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' thread 
> into a separate thread about "Kickstand plates, what's up with that ?"
>
> Upon you doing this, your timing is perfect. Like I mentioned previously, 
> I just installed my new Pletscher two legged kickstand and the new rubber 
> shoes for the feet of the stand on my Clem Smith Jr. "L" bike. I had the 
> same set-up on my 2008 Surly Long Haul Trucker with no issues in the short 
> time that I owned it. 
>
> I am very grateful to read all the valuable input and experiences with 
> their kickstand plates. 
>
> What I plan on doing is to remove my Pletscher two legged kickstand and 
> put the single kickstand back on my bike for the time being. I am going to 
> order the Pletscher kickstand hardware from Rivendell and install the 
> rubber chain stay protectors with the long bolt and reinstall the two 
> legged kickstand. I want to preserve my kickstand plate being the third 
> owner in less than a year. 
>
> Kim Hetzel
> Yelm, WA.
>
> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 11:10:44 AM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Seconding Jim's thoughts about your phone mount. I see a turn-by-hand 
>> screw and plastic clamp, you'll break the clamp before crushing the bar if 
>> you ever screwed it down that hard. 
>>
>> A little blue Loctite on the threads of that screw should keep it tight. 
>>
>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 4:33:20 AM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I read the product description which warns of over tightening and 
>>> ruining the frame. And then I thought of my new phone handlebar mount that 
>>> affixes to the bar like a vice and wondered if I’m ruining my Billie Bars! 
>>> I find myself having to tighten it a smidge now and then, and I wonder if 
>>> it’s because it’s mashing the aluminum Billie Bar. Can anyone offer an 
>>> opinion here? (I got a new iPhone and it’s huge and heavy, for what it’s 
>>> worth.)
>>> [image: image0.jpeg]
>>>
>>> On Nov 6, 2022, at 7:10 AM, Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> https://www.rivbike.com/products/pletscher-kickstand-hardware?variant=23336090241
>>>
>>> Save the plate! Add some weight!
>>> -Kai
>>>
>>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 1:12:04 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 I thought I'd bring this over here instead of continuing to hammer 
 Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' thread. 

 Do we have any reports of plates separating from the stays from a 
 single-leg kickstand, or are they all double-leggers? My experience with 
 both is this: 

 I used a double-legger on a Clem and could really load that bike up, 
 I'm familiar with that rocking sensation of all the weight torquing on the 
 stand. On my custom I use a single leg (the stock one that came on Clem 
 completes a few years ago) and it's not very strong. It supports the bike 
 fine and I can put a small shopping load in the bags, but as soon as I 
 start to overdo it I can feel the bike getting wobbly like the stand wants 
 to give out on me. My guess in this scenario is the single-legger is 
 warning me before the plate gets too stressed, whilst the double will let 
 you load all day until the plate gives up. 

 Whaddyathink? 

 Joe Bernard 

>>> -- 
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>>> .
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>>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Using Your Rivendell Vs. Being Precious: A Spectrum

[Jim Whorton]

Great thread.  I would love to ride my Riv every day but I have the 
following problem: I live in Rochester, NY and during the winter that means 
riding in a salty gray slush.  So I have what I used to think of as a 
"beater," a Rivified 80s mountain bike (Peugeot US Express) that I ride to 
the grocery store a couple time a week, in winter with studded tires.  I 
painted the bottom bracket shell and dropouts with red Rustoleum.  Rear 
derailleur is rusty, chain is rusty, it gets nasty.  Can't rinse the salt 
off during sub-freezing weather, as I learned, or the shifter cable will 
freeze inside the housing.  I have not got to the point where I can imagine 
taking my Riv out in that mess.

Here's the other thing, though--I love the Peugeot US Express.  I paid $40 
for the frame--later added Nitto bars, a dyno front wheel, a huge double 
rear basket--but I ride it with very much pleasure.

On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 12:51:48 PM UTC-5 Ted Durant wrote:

> On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 5:15:18 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> Where are you on the spectrum? What words of wisdom might you have? What 
>> strategies do you employ? Do you want to change? Or are you 
>> unapologetically staying put on the matter? It might be fun to hear 
>> perspectives.
>>
>> I'm in the "lucky to be able to afford several bikes for lots of 
> different purposes" camp. I don't obsess over them as precious objects - 
> none of them are "collector" bikes that will make my kids millionaires. I 
> do, however, like to keep them clean and well maintained. (Chain waxing is 
> easy and therapeutic.)  My wife and I gave each other a Santana tandem for 
> our wedding and rode it around Vermont for our honeymoon. Over the years of 
> riding, carrying it in or on the car, putting the kid converter on it, 
> getting hit by a car while towing our infant daughter in a Burley trailer 
> (!!!), it gathered its fair share of beausage. For our 30th wedding 
> anniversary we gave it a fresh paint job in Waterford French Blue and a 
> bunch of new parts. It's doing lighter duty, now, and staying pretty. 
> That's the thing about steel-framed bikes, right? You can have it both ways 
> over time.
>
> My Rivendell Road just had a visit to the chiropractor. A week ago a 
> low-flying hawk took my front wheel out from under me. The scratches will 
> remain, but it's sure nice to have the frame straight again. Another 25 
> years and maybe I'll get it painted again, but I'll keep the Joe Bell paint 
> on there as long as I can.
>
> My "errand" bike (complete with twin-leg kickstand, but no plate!) is a 
> custom Terraferma designed originally for brevets. The geometry is perfect 
> for carrying a bunch of stuff in the basket on the front. I keep it 
> reasonably clean, but it lives in the garage and is going to be riding on 
> salty streets soon.
>
> This thread could easily occur on a Porsche mailing list, too. My Boxster 
> is definitely not "precious"!
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee, WI USA
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[Joe Bernard]

Man that's alotta typos.

* how to park my bike without scraping it on poles and walls.

On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 2:25:28 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> [ I thank-you Joe Bernard for diverting Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' 
> thread into a separate thread about "Kickstand plates, what's up with that 
> ?" ]
>
> I'm always here to help! 🙋‍♂️ Or annoy people, depending on your POV! 😂
>
> I'm definitely going to keep my one-legger and try not to snap anything. I 
> tried kickstandless for a few weeks and it drove me nuts trying to figure 
> out how to part my bike with scraping it on poles and walls. Kickstands for 
> me! 
>
> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 2:03:43 PM UTC-8 Kim Hetzel wrote:
>
>> I thank-you Joe Bernard for diverting Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' 
>> thread into a separate thread about "Kickstand plates, what's up with that 
>> ?"
>>
>> Upon you doing this, your timing is perfect. Like I mentioned previously, 
>> I just installed my new Pletscher two legged kickstand and the new rubber 
>> shoes for the feet of the stand on my Clem Smith Jr. "L" bike. I had the 
>> same set-up on my 2008 Surly Long Haul Trucker with no issues in the short 
>> time that I owned it. 
>>
>> I am very grateful to read all the valuable input and experiences with 
>> their kickstand plates. 
>>
>> What I plan on doing is to remove my Pletscher two legged kickstand and 
>> put the single kickstand back on my bike for the time being. I am going to 
>> order the Pletscher kickstand hardware from Rivendell and install the 
>> rubber chain stay protectors with the long bolt and reinstall the two 
>> legged kickstand. I want to preserve my kickstand plate being the third 
>> owner in less than a year. 
>>
>> Kim Hetzel
>> Yelm, WA.
>>
>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 11:10:44 AM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> Seconding Jim's thoughts about your phone mount. I see a turn-by-hand 
>>> screw and plastic clamp, you'll break the clamp before crushing the bar if 
>>> you ever screwed it down that hard. 
>>>
>>> A little blue Loctite on the threads of that screw should keep it tight. 
>>>
>>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 4:33:20 AM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I read the product description which warns of over tightening and 
 ruining the frame. And then I thought of my new phone handlebar mount that 
 affixes to the bar like a vice and wondered if I’m ruining my Billie Bars! 
 I find myself having to tighten it a smidge now and then, and I wonder if 
 it’s because it’s mashing the aluminum Billie Bar. Can anyone offer an 
 opinion here? (I got a new iPhone and it’s huge and heavy, for what it’s 
 worth.)
 [image: image0.jpeg]

 On Nov 6, 2022, at 7:10 AM, Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY  
 wrote:

 
 https://www.rivbike.com/products/pletscher-kickstand-hardware?variant=23336090241

 Save the plate! Add some weight!
 -Kai

 On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 1:12:04 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I thought I'd bring this over here instead of continuing to hammer 
> Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' thread. 
>
> Do we have any reports of plates separating from the stays from a 
> single-leg kickstand, or are they all double-leggers? My experience with 
> both is this: 
>
> I used a double-legger on a Clem and could really load that bike up, 
> I'm familiar with that rocking sensation of all the weight torquing on 
> the 
> stand. On my custom I use a single leg (the stock one that came on Clem 
> completes a few years ago) and it's not very strong. It supports the bike 
> fine and I can put a small shopping load in the bags, but as soon as I 
> start to overdo it I can feel the bike getting wobbly like the stand 
> wants 
> to give out on me. My guess in this scenario is the single-legger is 
> warning me before the plate gets too stressed, whilst the double will let 
> you load all day until the plate gives up. 
>
> Whaddyathink? 
>
> Joe Bernard 
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[Jeffrey Arita]

My wife and I each had Rivendells (me an AHH, my wife Betty Foy).  Both 
frame models each came with kickstand plates (yay!).  We spec'd both bikes 
with Greenfield *single *leg sidestands.  To our knowledge, the kickstand 
plates remained sturdy and attached.  But, both bikes were *not *loaded 
with a lot of gear or stuff - no racks and panniers, groceries, etc.  My 
wife did commute with her BF and she did carry extra clothing and shoes, 
but that was pretty much it.

We've since sold the Rivs but definitely see the need for some sort of 
sidestand, especially while loaded touring.  We've got friends that have 
purchased Click-Stands and they hold a very well loaded bicycle.  The guy 
builds a solid product.  Just remember to use the front brake band and 
you're good-to-go.  I ended up making our own from tent pole pieces after 
seeing how simple they were.  Another possible solution that won't stress 
out any part of the bicycle.

http://www.click-stand.com/

Leah: if you are concerned about your smartphone bicycle mount, consider 
getting a Quad Lock.  They are pricey, but we feel it is well worth it.  
We've used them for years now (6+) cyclotouring on- and *off-road* and they 
have kept our phones safe and secure.

https://www.quadlockcase.com/collections/shop-cycle

Good luck,

Jeff & Lori Arita
Claremont, CA

On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 2:25:28 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> [ I thank-you Joe Bernard for diverting Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' 
> thread into a separate thread about "Kickstand plates, what's up with that 
> ?" ]
>
> I'm always here to help! 🙋‍♂️ Or annoy people, depending on your POV! 😂
>
> I'm definitely going to keep my one-legger and try not to snap anything. I 
> tried kickstandless for a few weeks and it drove me nuts trying to figure 
> out how to part my bike with scraping it on poles and walls. Kickstands for 
> me! 
>
> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 2:03:43 PM UTC-8 Kim Hetzel wrote:
>
>> I thank-you Joe Bernard for diverting Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' 
>> thread into a separate thread about "Kickstand plates, what's up with that 
>> ?"
>>
>> Upon you doing this, your timing is perfect. Like I mentioned previously, 
>> I just installed my new Pletscher two legged kickstand and the new rubber 
>> shoes for the feet of the stand on my Clem Smith Jr. "L" bike. I had the 
>> same set-up on my 2008 Surly Long Haul Trucker with no issues in the short 
>> time that I owned it. 
>>
>> I am very grateful to read all the valuable input and experiences with 
>> their kickstand plates. 
>>
>> What I plan on doing is to remove my Pletscher two legged kickstand and 
>> put the single kickstand back on my bike for the time being. I am going to 
>> order the Pletscher kickstand hardware from Rivendell and install the 
>> rubber chain stay protectors with the long bolt and reinstall the two 
>> legged kickstand. I want to preserve my kickstand plate being the third 
>> owner in less than a year. 
>>
>> Kim Hetzel
>> Yelm, WA.
>>
>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 11:10:44 AM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> Seconding Jim's thoughts about your phone mount. I see a turn-by-hand 
>>> screw and plastic clamp, you'll break the clamp before crushing the bar if 
>>> you ever screwed it down that hard. 
>>>
>>> A little blue Loctite on the threads of that screw should keep it tight. 
>>>
>>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 4:33:20 AM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I read the product description which warns of over tightening and 
 ruining the frame. And then I thought of my new phone handlebar mount that 
 affixes to the bar like a vice and wondered if I’m ruining my Billie Bars! 
 I find myself having to tighten it a smidge now and then, and I wonder if 
 it’s because it’s mashing the aluminum Billie Bar. Can anyone offer an 
 opinion here? (I got a new iPhone and it’s huge and heavy, for what it’s 
 worth.)
 [image: image0.jpeg]

 On Nov 6, 2022, at 7:10 AM, Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY  
 wrote:

 
 https://www.rivbike.com/products/pletscher-kickstand-hardware?variant=23336090241

 Save the plate! Add some weight!
 -Kai

 On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 1:12:04 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I thought I'd bring this over here instead of continuing to hammer 
> Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' thread. 
>
> Do we have any reports of plates separating from the stays from a 
> single-leg kickstand, or are they all double-leggers? My experience with 
> both is this: 
>
> I used a double-legger on a Clem and could really load that bike up, 
> I'm familiar with that rocking sensation of all the weight torquing on 
> the 
> stand. On my custom I use a single leg (the stock one that came on Clem 
> completes a few years ago) and it's not very strong. It supports the bike 
> fine and I can put a small shopping load in the bags, but as soon as I 
> start to ov

Re: [RBW] Sharing Your Fall Foliage Fotos 2022

[Eric Marth]

Lovely, Peter 

On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 1:21:35 PM UTC-5 jmlmu...@gmail.com wrote:

> Wow amazing Peter! I've tried (and failed) on numerous occasions to keep 
> one of those alive. I got tired of killing them. 
>
> All these beautiful shots inspired me to go find a "fall" photo in Los 
> Angeles! I will find one for y'all.
>
> Joe in Los Angeles
>
> On Sun, Nov 6, 2022 at 10:02 AM Peter White  wrote:
>
>> [image: L1000151.jpeg]
>>
>> The Japanese Maple tree in front of the shop last week.
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 5, 2022 at 2:29 PM Eric Marth  wrote:
>>
>>> Great pics Takashi and Brady :) 
>>>
>>> On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 10:42:00 AM UTC-4 Takashi wrote:
>>>
 After all the colorful photos, Brady's snowy photo almost looks like 
 monochrome (except for the bike).

 Here are couple of photos from today's ride.
 It was like a bit too late for the peak colorfulness, but it was still 
 enjoyable.

 Takashi

 -- 
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>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Peter White
>>
>> -- 
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CA%2BD%3DXm8bHgDQoA9Xq9a3qz2A9hVQtBb9_G18pK0Zuecmt5BnLQ%40mail.gmail.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[Brian Turner]

Maybe this is the wrong question to ask, but is it too tall an order to expect a kickstand plate that doesn’t shear off under normal circumstances? I mean, I figure if anyone is going to design a proper kickstand plate to fit a variety of stands and applications for use, it would be Rivendell, no?On Nov 6, 2022, at 6:00 PM, Jeffrey Arita  wrote:My wife and I each had Rivendells (me an AHH, my wife Betty Foy).  Both frame models each came with kickstand plates (yay!).  We spec'd both bikes with Greenfield single leg sidestands.  To our knowledge, the kickstand plates remained sturdy and attached.  But, both bikes were not loaded with a lot of gear or stuff - no racks and panniers, groceries, etc.  My wife did commute with her BF and she did carry extra clothing and shoes, but that was pretty much it.We've since sold the Rivs but definitely see the need for some sort of sidestand, especially while loaded touring.  We've got friends that have purchased Click-Stands and they hold a very well loaded bicycle.  The guy builds a solid product.  Just remember to use the front brake band and you're good-to-go.  I ended up making our own from tent pole pieces after seeing how simple they were.  Another possible solution that won't stress out any part of the bicycle.http://www.click-stand.com/Leah: if you are concerned about your smartphone bicycle mount, consider getting a Quad Lock.  They are pricey, but we feel it is well worth it.  We've used them for years now (6+) cyclotouring on- and off-road and they have kept our phones safe and secure.https://www.quadlockcase.com/collections/shop-cycleGood luck,Jeff & Lori AritaClaremont, CAOn Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 2:25:28 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:[ I thank-you Joe Bernard for diverting Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' thread into a separate thread about "Kickstand plates, what's up with that ?" ]I'm always here to help! 🙋‍♂️ Or annoy people, depending on your POV! 😂I'm definitely going to keep my one-legger and try not to snap anything. I tried kickstandless for a few weeks and it drove me nuts trying to figure out how to part my bike with scraping it on poles and walls. Kickstands for me! On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 2:03:43 PM UTC-8 Kim Hetzel wrote:I thank-you Joe Bernard for diverting 
Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' thread

into a separate thread about "Kickstand plates, what's up with that ?"Upon you doing this, your timing is perfect. Like I mentioned previously, I just installed my 
new Pletscher two legged kickstand and the new rubber shoes for the feet of the stand on my Clem Smith Jr. "L" bike. I had the same set-up on my 2008 Surly Long Haul Trucker with no issues in the short time that I owned it. I am very grateful to read all the valuable input and experiences with their kickstand plates. What I plan on doing is to remove my 
Pletscher two legged kickstand and put the single kickstand back on my bike for the time being. I am going to order the Pletscher kickstand hardware from Rivendell and install the rubber chain stay protectors with the long bolt and reinstall the two legged kickstand. I want to preserve my kickstand plate being the third owner in less than a year. Kim HetzelYelm, WA.On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 11:10:44 AM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:Seconding Jim's thoughts about your phone mount. I see a turn-by-hand screw and plastic clamp, you'll break the clamp before crushing the bar if you ever screwed it down that hard. A little blue Loctite on the threads of that screw should keep it tight. On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 4:33:20 AM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:I read the product description which warns of over tightening and ruining the frame. And then I thought of my new phone handlebar mount that affixes to the bar like a vice and wondered if I’m ruining my Billie Bars! I find myself having to tighten it a smidge now and then, and I wonder if it’s because it’s mashing the aluminum Billie Bar. Can anyone offer an opinion here? (I got a new iPhone and it’s huge and heavy, for what it’s worth.)On Nov 6, 2022, at 7:10 AM, Kainalu V.  -Brooklyn NY  wrote:https://www.rivbike.com/products/pletscher-kickstand-hardware?variant=23336090241Save the plate! Add some weight!-KaiOn Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 1:12:04 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:I thought I'd bring this over here instead of continuing to hammer Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' thread. Do we have any reports of plates separating from the stays from a single-leg kickstand, or are they all double-leggers? My experience with both is this: I used a double-legger on a Clem and could really load that bike up, I'm familiar with that rocking sensation of all the weight torquing on the stand. On my custom I use a single leg (the stock one that came on Clem completes a few years ago) and it's not very strong. It supports the bike fine and I can put a small shopping load in the bags, but as soon as I start to overdo it I can feel the bike getting wobbly like the stand wants to

[RBW] Re: Garage Sale: Random bike stuff/clothing F/S

[Dave S]

PM'ed on the pants.

On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 7:06:20 PM UTC-5 robert.har...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Hello --
>
> Lots of cleaning going on and want to get rid of a ton of bike stuff
> as move apartments. Lots of goodies here and if you want closer up
> photos or more, just let me know. Happy to do so. Added some pictures
> of most of the goods.
>
> Just lmk -- also local pickup in DC is possible! **Sorry about the 
> cross-post***
>
> Happy riding!
>
> - RGinDC
>
> Clothes for Sale:
> - Large MUSA Blue Pants -- 50 shipped
> - Large MUSA Khaki Pants -- 65 shipped (never worn)
> - Large Riv Sweatshirt - 30 shipped (been used a few times)
> - XL Campandgoslow -- 100 shipped (never warn)
> - Simone Cafe du Cycliste XXL Blue/White stripe - 125 shipped (never warn)
>
> Random:
> - Swift Paloma Bag with the hardware - 45$ shipped (it's a little funky 
> tbh)
> - Road Runner Wedge Half Frame Bag -- 50$ shipped
> - Riv Shalacking kit -- 25 shipped (never used)
>
> Wheels/Tires:
> - Velocity A23 wheel w/ continental gatorskin/Shimano 105 hub release
> - 100 shipped
> - Compass Chinook Pass (standard) -- 50 shipped for both (medium wear)
> - WTB Cross Boss 700x35 -- 40 shipped for both (light wear)
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] Sharing Your Fall Foliage Fotos 2022

[Kim Hetzel]

Thank-you, Peter. It is a beautiful picture of contrast. Nice to see the 
whole front of your home from visiting your website in purchasing products 
from you in the past. 

Kim Hetzel
Yelm, WA. 
On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 3:00:01 PM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Lovely, Peter 
>
> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 1:21:35 PM UTC-5 jmlmu...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Wow amazing Peter! I've tried (and failed) on numerous occasions to keep 
>> one of those alive. I got tired of killing them. 
>>
>> All these beautiful shots inspired me to go find a "fall" photo in Los 
>> Angeles! I will find one for y'all.
>>
>> Joe in Los Angeles
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 6, 2022 at 10:02 AM Peter White  wrote:
>>
>>> [image: L1000151.jpeg]
>>>
>>> The Japanese Maple tree in front of the shop last week.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 5, 2022 at 2:29 PM Eric Marth  wrote:
>>>
 Great pics Takashi and Brady :) 

 On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 10:42:00 AM UTC-4 Takashi wrote:

> After all the colorful photos, Brady's snowy photo almost looks like 
> monochrome (except for the bike).
>
> Here are couple of photos from today's ride.
> It was like a bit too late for the peak colorfulness, but it was still 
> enjoyable.
>
> Takashi
>
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>>>
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>>>
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>>> .
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[Leah Peterson]

Whew, thanks, guys! Super relieved. You have no idea. On Nov 6, 2022, at 2:10 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:Seconding Jim's thoughts about your phone mount. I see a turn-by-hand screw and plastic clamp, you'll break the clamp before crushing the bar if you ever screwed it down that hard. A little blue Loctite on the threads of that screw should keep it tight. On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 4:33:20 AM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:I read the product description which warns of over tightening and ruining the frame. And then I thought of my new phone handlebar mount that affixes to the bar like a vice and wondered if I’m ruining my Billie Bars! I find myself having to tighten it a smidge now and then, and I wonder if it’s because it’s mashing the aluminum Billie Bar. Can anyone offer an opinion here? (I got a new iPhone and it’s huge and heavy, for what it’s worth.)On Nov 6, 2022, at 7:10 AM, Kainalu V.  -Brooklyn NY  wrote:https://www.rivbike.com/products/pletscher-kickstand-hardware?variant=23336090241Save the plate! Add some weight!-KaiOn Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 1:12:04 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:I thought I'd bring this over here instead of continuing to hammer Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' thread. Do we have any reports of plates separating from the stays from a single-leg kickstand, or are they all double-leggers? My experience with both is this: I used a double-legger on a Clem and could really load that bike up, I'm familiar with that rocking sensation of all the weight torquing on the stand. On my custom I use a single leg (the stock one that came on Clem completes a few years ago) and it's not very strong. It supports the bike fine and I can put a small shopping load in the bags, but as soon as I start to overdo it I can feel the bike getting wobbly like the stand wants to give out on me. My guess in this scenario is the single-legger is warning me before the plate gets too stressed, whilst the double will let you load all day until the plate gives up. Whaddyathink? Joe Bernard 



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Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[Joe Bernard]

You're welcome! Although I now realize my follow-up was completely 
redundant, i didn't notice Jim had mentioned the plastic clamp, too, I just 
repeated what he said. Lame! 🤪

On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 5:39:43 PM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> Whew, thanks, guys! Super relieved. You have no idea. 
>
> On Nov 6, 2022, at 2:10 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
> Seconding Jim's thoughts about your phone mount. I see a turn-by-hand 
> screw and plastic clamp, you'll break the clamp before crushing the bar if 
> you ever screwed it down that hard. 
>
>
> A little blue Loctite on the threads of that screw should keep it tight. 
>
> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 4:33:20 AM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> I read the product description which warns of over tightening and ruining 
>> the frame. And then I thought of my new phone handlebar mount that affixes 
>> to the bar like a vice and wondered if I’m ruining my Billie Bars! I find 
>> myself having to tighten it a smidge now and then, and I wonder if it’s 
>> because it’s mashing the aluminum Billie Bar. Can anyone offer an opinion 
>> here? (I got a new iPhone and it’s huge and heavy, for what it’s worth.)
>> [image: image0.jpeg]
>>
>> On Nov 6, 2022, at 7:10 AM, Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY  
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> https://www.rivbike.com/products/pletscher-kickstand-hardware?variant=23336090241
>>
>> Save the plate! Add some weight!
>> -Kai
>>
>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 1:12:04 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> I thought I'd bring this over here instead of continuing to hammer 
>>> Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' thread. 
>>>
>>> Do we have any reports of plates separating from the stays from a 
>>> single-leg kickstand, or are they all double-leggers? My experience with 
>>> both is this: 
>>>
>>> I used a double-legger on a Clem and could really load that bike up, I'm 
>>> familiar with that rocking sensation of all the weight torquing on the 
>>> stand. On my custom I use a single leg (the stock one that came on Clem 
>>> completes a few years ago) and it's not very strong. It supports the bike 
>>> fine and I can put a small shopping load in the bags, but as soon as I 
>>> start to overdo it I can feel the bike getting wobbly like the stand wants 
>>> to give out on me. My guess in this scenario is the single-legger is 
>>> warning me before the plate gets too stressed, whilst the double will let 
>>> you load all day until the plate gives up. 
>>>
>>> Whaddyathink? 
>>>
>>> Joe Bernard 
>>>
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[RBW] Re: Using Your Rivendell Vs. Being Precious: A Spectrum

[Kim Hetzel]

Since this is the my first time owning a Rivendell bicycle; a Clem Jr. "L", 
I have grown to appreciate it more and more when I ride it. Purchased it 
mid-September of this year. I am relieved and happy at the same time to be 
able love this bike, after years from retiring my road bike (2012); a 1973 
Cilo Sprint-X turned into a sports touring bike with drop bars. It fit me 
well. However, I became older and grew tried of riding in the drops. I 
struggled with my Raleigh Elkhorn in a lot of modifications that led to not 
riding the bike very much in the long run. 

Generally, the material possessions that I own, I take good care of and not 
see them neglected. Knowing that my Clem Jr. "L" is not your everyday 
production bike and not that easy to replace, I plan on not locking it up 
and not letting out of my sight. My Cilo I never locked her up nor out of 
my sight. I do have a garage for my bikes. Yes, I would be very sad to have 
my Clem Jr. "L" stolen. I do not have a back up  bike for it at his time. 

I know over time, there will be nicks, scuffs, scratches and deep cuts into 
the paint and frame. To me, that is a reflection a well loved bicycle, just 
like the Velveteen Rabbit children's book story. Isn't it ?

It as been quite a journey owning fourteen bikes before my Clem Jr. "L" in 
my life. I am glad that I made this purchase and crossed over a bridge to 
finding comfort and feeling the joys of cycling once again in my retirement 
years.  I long to ride off road, again soon. It handles very confident and 
true over the terrain. It just wants to keep on rolling.

I need to buy some Honjo fenders for it. 

Kim Hetzel
Yelm, WA. 












On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 2:33:03 PM UTC-8 Jim Whorton wrote:

> Great thread.  I would love to ride my Riv every day but I have the 
> following problem: I live in Rochester, NY and during the winter that means 
> riding in a salty gray slush.  So I have what I used to think of as a 
> "beater," a Rivified 80s mountain bike (Peugeot US Express) that I ride to 
> the grocery store a couple time a week, in winter with studded tires.  I 
> painted the bottom bracket shell and dropouts with red Rustoleum.  Rear 
> derailleur is rusty, chain is rusty, it gets nasty.  Can't rinse the salt 
> off during sub-freezing weather, as I learned, or the shifter cable will 
> freeze inside the housing.  I have not got to the point where I can imagine 
> taking my Riv out in that mess.
>
> Here's the other thing, though--I love the Peugeot US Express.  I paid $40 
> for the frame--later added Nitto bars, a dyno front wheel, a huge double 
> rear basket--but I ride it with very much pleasure.
>
> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 12:51:48 PM UTC-5 Ted Durant wrote:
>
>> On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 5:15:18 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding 
>> Ding! wrote:
>>
>>> Where are you on the spectrum? What words of wisdom might you have? What 
>>> strategies do you employ? Do you want to change? Or are you 
>>> unapologetically staying put on the matter? It might be fun to hear 
>>> perspectives.
>>>
>>> I'm in the "lucky to be able to afford several bikes for lots of 
>> different purposes" camp. I don't obsess over them as precious objects - 
>> none of them are "collector" bikes that will make my kids millionaires. I 
>> do, however, like to keep them clean and well maintained. (Chain waxing is 
>> easy and therapeutic.)  My wife and I gave each other a Santana tandem for 
>> our wedding and rode it around Vermont for our honeymoon. Over the years of 
>> riding, carrying it in or on the car, putting the kid converter on it, 
>> getting hit by a car while towing our infant daughter in a Burley trailer 
>> (!!!), it gathered its fair share of beausage. For our 30th wedding 
>> anniversary we gave it a fresh paint job in Waterford French Blue and a 
>> bunch of new parts. It's doing lighter duty, now, and staying pretty. 
>> That's the thing about steel-framed bikes, right? You can have it both ways 
>> over time.
>>
>> My Rivendell Road just had a visit to the chiropractor. A week ago a 
>> low-flying hawk took my front wheel out from under me. The scratches will 
>> remain, but it's sure nice to have the frame straight again. Another 25 
>> years and maybe I'll get it painted again, but I'll keep the Joe Bell paint 
>> on there as long as I can.
>>
>> My "errand" bike (complete with twin-leg kickstand, but no plate!) is a 
>> custom Terraferma designed originally for brevets. The geometry is perfect 
>> for carrying a bunch of stuff in the basket on the front. I keep it 
>> reasonably clean, but it lives in the garage and is going to be riding on 
>> salty streets soon.
>>
>> This thread could easily occur on a Porsche mailing list, too. My Boxster 
>> is definitely not "precious"!
>>
>> Ted Durant
>> Milwaukee, WI USA
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[Jason Fuller]

The Bombadil, despite being such a burly bike itself, has a most dainty 
kickstand plate - so much so that I've removed the kickstand from that bike 
just to avoid bending it and potentially damaging the chainstays in the 
process. Grant recognized the shortcoming and thickened the plate in 
subsequent models but like Joe rightly noted, the double leg kickstands are 
dangerous if not careful and this is, to my understanding, why Riv stopped 
selling them. 

On Sunday, 6 November 2022 at 17:59:00 UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> You're welcome! Although I now realize my follow-up was completely 
> redundant, i didn't notice Jim had mentioned the plastic clamp, too, I just 
> repeated what he said. Lame! 🤪
>
> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 5:39:43 PM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> Whew, thanks, guys! Super relieved. You have no idea. 
>>
>> On Nov 6, 2022, at 2:10 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>
>> Seconding Jim's thoughts about your phone mount. I see a turn-by-hand 
>> screw and plastic clamp, you'll break the clamp before crushing the bar if 
>> you ever screwed it down that hard. 
>>
>>
>> A little blue Loctite on the threads of that screw should keep it tight. 
>>
>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 4:33:20 AM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I read the product description which warns of over tightening and 
>>> ruining the frame. And then I thought of my new phone handlebar mount that 
>>> affixes to the bar like a vice and wondered if I’m ruining my Billie Bars! 
>>> I find myself having to tighten it a smidge now and then, and I wonder if 
>>> it’s because it’s mashing the aluminum Billie Bar. Can anyone offer an 
>>> opinion here? (I got a new iPhone and it’s huge and heavy, for what it’s 
>>> worth.)
>>> [image: image0.jpeg]
>>>
>>> On Nov 6, 2022, at 7:10 AM, Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> https://www.rivbike.com/products/pletscher-kickstand-hardware?variant=23336090241
>>>
>>> Save the plate! Add some weight!
>>> -Kai
>>>
>>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 1:12:04 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 I thought I'd bring this over here instead of continuing to hammer 
 Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' thread. 

 Do we have any reports of plates separating from the stays from a 
 single-leg kickstand, or are they all double-leggers? My experience with 
 both is this: 

 I used a double-legger on a Clem and could really load that bike up, 
 I'm familiar with that rocking sensation of all the weight torquing on the 
 stand. On my custom I use a single leg (the stock one that came on Clem 
 completes a few years ago) and it's not very strong. It supports the bike 
 fine and I can put a small shopping load in the bags, but as soon as I 
 start to overdo it I can feel the bike getting wobbly like the stand wants 
 to give out on me. My guess in this scenario is the single-legger is 
 warning me before the plate gets too stressed, whilst the double will let 
 you load all day until the plate gives up. 

 Whaddyathink? 

 Joe Bernard 

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>>> .
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>> .
>>
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[RBW] Re: FS Silver 2 bar end shifters

[Mike Godwin]

Three thumbs up for the Silver 2 shifters as bar-end shifters. If you are 
hesitant to run them as bar end shifters, they are very adaptable. The 
right side/rear shifter does loosen a bit on rides, but the shape is fine. 
If ya'll are accustomed to friction shifting, piece 'o cake. Just a few 
millimeters stroke and the next gear is in place. Looking back at the cogs 
is not required.

Mike SLO CA 
On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 6:03:59 PM UTC-7 Michael Baquerizo wrote:

> any interest in keeping the pods and selling the shifters?
>
> On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 4:08:35 PM UTC-4 lconley wrote:
>
>> Rivendell Silver 2 bar end shifters mounted on Shimano Bar End Pods. 2 
>> minutes with a Dremel tool on the pods and spacers and a second metal 
>> washer and everything fits and lines up just fine. Mounted and tested, but 
>> everything is otherwise new. $115 shipped CONUS or best offer.
>>
>> [image: lineups.jpg][image: XO bar endss.jpg]
>>
>> Laing
>> Delray Beach FL
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Garage Sale: Random bike stuff/clothing F/S

[Luke Hendrickson]

PM’d on the sweatshirt. 

On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 4:21:11 PM UTC-8 Dave S wrote:

> PM'ed on the pants.
>
> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 7:06:20 PM UTC-5 robert.har...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Hello --
>>
>> Lots of cleaning going on and want to get rid of a ton of bike stuff
>> as move apartments. Lots of goodies here and if you want closer up
>> photos or more, just let me know. Happy to do so. Added some pictures
>> of most of the goods.
>>
>> Just lmk -- also local pickup in DC is possible! **Sorry about the 
>> cross-post***
>>
>> Happy riding!
>>
>> - RGinDC
>>
>> Clothes for Sale:
>> - Large MUSA Blue Pants -- 50 shipped
>> - Large MUSA Khaki Pants -- 65 shipped (never worn)
>> - Large Riv Sweatshirt - 30 shipped (been used a few times)
>> - XL Campandgoslow -- 100 shipped (never warn)
>> - Simone Cafe du Cycliste XXL Blue/White stripe - 125 shipped (never warn)
>>
>> Random:
>> - Swift Paloma Bag with the hardware - 45$ shipped (it's a little funky 
>> tbh)
>> - Road Runner Wedge Half Frame Bag -- 50$ shipped
>> - Riv Shalacking kit -- 25 shipped (never used)
>>
>> Wheels/Tires:
>> - Velocity A23 wheel w/ continental gatorskin/Shimano 105 hub release
>> - 100 shipped
>> - Compass Chinook Pass (standard) -- 50 shipped for both (medium wear)
>> - WTB Cross Boss 700x35 -- 40 shipped for both (light wear)
>> .
>>
>

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[RBW] WTB: Paul Funky Monkey or Rene Herse front brake cable hanger

[Todd G]

Looking for either of these front cable hangers:

   - *Funky Monkey* - I’m looking for 1" / 25.4, silver or polished
   - *Rene Herse -* I’m looking for the slotted steerer version with the 
   barrel adjuster

Please reach out if you can help me out with either of the options above.

Thanks!

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