[RBW] Re: Kickstarter Project - Ride Bike!

['chrisd' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I lived in the Bay Area and would frequently see Jobst when I was out 
riding. He also knew a lot about birds  (go figure). Jobst inspired me to 
do several of his epic Sierra rides. Loved Jobst's postings on 
rec.bicycles.tech. Whenever someone would post an opinion and sign off with 
PhD Jobst would would essentially rebut their opinion and say "so that PhD 
makes you an expert."!

Chris

On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 5:27:11 PM UTC-6 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> I found this today: 
> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/isolapress/jobst-brandt-ride-bike-book?ref=4ivtqo
>
> I have Isola Press's "Rough Stuff Fellowship" book, and it's great. I've 
> met Jobst Brandt a few times (and gotten advice from him on touring once or 
> twice). So I jumped in and supported the book. I think Grant interviewed 
> Jobst once for the Rivendell Reader, so I thought some of you might be 
> interested in this.
>
> I once went through as many of Brandt's ride reports as possible and built 
> a list of all the hotels he stayed at more than once. Since his daily 
> mileage was 2-3 times mine, I'd only stay in one of those hotels a few 
> times a trip, but every time I stayed at a "Jobst Hotel" the quality of the 
> food went up and the price went down, so I guess that makes me a Jobst fan.
>
> Piaw
>

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Re: [RBW] Sharing Your Fall Foliage Fotos 2022

[Eric Marth]

Great pics Takashi and Brady :) 

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 10:42:00 AM UTC-4 Takashi wrote:

> After all the colorful photos, Brady's snowy photo almost looks like 
> monochrome (except for the bike).
>
> Here are couple of photos from today's ride.
> It was like a bit too late for the peak colorfulness, but it was still 
> enjoyable.
>
> Takashi
>
>

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[RBW] FS: "Riddler" cyclocross tire & tube (NYC) $50

[Michael Morrissey]

FOR SALE 1 tire and tube
Brand new 
WTB (Wilderness Trail Bikes) Riddler 700x37c tanwall tire

Teravail standard 700x30-43 presta (48mm long stem) tube

Let's say $50 pickup in NYC or will ship. I got this for one of my bikes 
and then went in another direction.

Thanks,

Michael



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Re: [RBW] Re: Using Your Rivendell Vs. Being Precious: A Spectrum

[Leah Peterson]

Joe, I know how worried you were about your paint and now your custom hauls laundry?! This is huge, huge progress. So impressed. And locking up at Walmart can be really scary. Good for you. I’m so glad your custom is doing all the things you meant for it to do. I’m sure you would never be happy riding a beater bike to do these things.LOn Nov 5, 2022, at 7:14 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:I love this topic! I had my custom designed to answer the question, "What if I had all the qualities I love about Rivendells in a frame made exactly for my size, weight and riding preferences?",  and at first I was super precious about it. Later I realized the whole point was to have a perfect bike I could ride every day for everything and that's what I'm doing.Of course I'm still absurdly touchy about scratching all that beautiful Joe Bell paint but I don't let it stop me, I lock it up at Walmart, I fill the bags with laundry and go to the laundromat. Because I want my bike to do all the things bikes do!Joe Bernard On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 3:15:18 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:Did you read Grant’s Blahg? He covers a lot of ground, but most notable to me was the Please Don’t Be Precious About Your Rivendell section. In sum, Grant is saying it saddens him to think of people riding beater bikes instead of their Rivendells to do daily, monotonous tasks - because those tasks make up a lot of real life. If one “saves” their Rivendell, it will not realize its potential, sit mostly unused and then pass to one’s heirs who will sell it in “near mint” condition on EBay, and how sad. What was the bike for?I have found myself both guilty and innocent on the matter. My #1 favorite bike is my raspberry Platypus. I ride it all the time, because I bought it to ride it, but I also dread any harm coming to it, and I do guard it from that. I got a second Platypus that I dedicated to shopping and traveling with and promised not to be precious about it. But now and then I still am tempted to backslide. When traveling to the Philly Bike Expo I dithered about which bike to bring. I didn’t want my raspberry Platy damaged while locked up at racks and I feared it being stolen. Roberta said, “I don’t think you have a choice, Leah. That’s the bike people will expect you to bring.” And she was right, and I did. Then, there is Pam. Pam is at the other far end of the spectrum. Her bike is a model of beausage. Innumerable paint chips and little spots of rust cover her tiny Betty frame. Her Backabike bags are full of holes and the elastic closures are worn out. She locks it up and never worries about it. She did not obsessively stare out the restaurant window to see if it was still locked to the rack while we were at dinner (like yours truly). But she loves her bike, has real affection for it. She looked at me, eyes shining, and said exactly that. Ana, PurpleRiv, is another good example to us. She adores her bike, but has not spared it from hard work. Her bike has hauled obscene loads and taken her everywhere. I remember there was that one fateful camping trip for she 1. Posed it for a photo, only to have it topple and slide down the face of a boulder next to it. I believe she said she sat there and wept for 2 hours over her Joe Bell paint. And who among us would not do the same? 2. Same trip, another photo op, and the bike fell off a cliff. So, who truly loves their Rivendell? The one who lavishes it with care and protection? Or the one who pulls it out of the garage and into all of life - the mundane and the adventurous? On one end of the spectrum we have those who will only take a Rivendell out for special occasions so as not to spoil it, and on the other…well, we have Pam and Ana, who will give it a good thrashing. (Oh, don’t take it personally, friends, I’m being funny about both types of owners.)I find myself wanting to be precious but fighting it and succeeding *most* of the time. I’m lucky that the raspberry paint hides beausage and dirt, so it looks pretty new. But a dent in the top tube or a large chip in the paint would really hurt my feelings. Heaven help me. Where are you on the spectrum? What words of wisdom might you have? What strategies do you employ? Do you want to change? Or are you unapologetically staying put on the matter? It might be fun to hear perspectives.Leah



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[RBW] Re: Using Your Rivendell Vs. Being Precious: A Spectrum

[George Schick]

I haven't read Grant's Blahg on this matter (the ancient OS on my computer 
is so out of date that I can't load certain websites), but what he has to 
say does not surprise me.  He's always been all about what he calls 
"beausage," a term he coined to mean "beauty through usage," or IOW don't 
sweat all of the nicks and scratches, "just ride" your bike and be happy.  
The good news though is that there is a happy middle ground between the 
complete over-the-top utility use of a bike (like Pam's), ignoring any wear 
and tear versus a finicky protectiveness, hovering over the bike at all 
times and worrying about theft, damage, etc.  And in my way of thinking 
that means "just ride" it for all it's worth, but don't just throw it in 
the corner until the next ride, but take good care of it.  Another way of 
saying that might be, "... take good care of it and it will take good care 
of you."
This is no different than what one might do having just bought a nice new 
automobile and drives it everywhere, but also maintains it, washes and 
waxes it regularly, and is careful where they park it.

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 6:14:45 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I love this topic! I had my custom designed to answer the question, "What 
> if I had all the qualities I love about Rivendells in a frame made exactly 
> for my size, weight and riding preferences?", and at first I was super 
> precious about it. Later I realized the whole point was to have a perfect 
> bike I could ride every day for everything and that's what I'm doing.
>
> Of course I'm still absurdly touchy about scratching all that beautiful 
> Joe Bell paint but I don't let it stop me, I lock it up at Walmart, I fill 
> the bags with laundry and go to the laundromat. Because I want my bike to 
> do all the things bikes do!
>
> Joe Bernard 
>
> On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 3:15:18 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> Did you read Grant’s Blahg? He covers a lot of ground, but most notable 
>> to me was the Please Don’t Be Precious About Your Rivendell section. In 
>> sum, Grant is saying it saddens him to think of people riding beater bikes 
>> instead of their Rivendells to do daily, monotonous tasks - because those 
>> tasks make up a lot of real life. If one “saves” their Rivendell, it will 
>> not realize its potential, sit mostly unused and then pass to one’s heirs 
>> who will sell it in “near mint” condition on EBay, and how sad. What was 
>> the bike for?
>>
>> I have found myself both guilty and innocent on the matter. My #1 
>> favorite bike is my raspberry Platypus. I ride it all the time, because I 
>> bought it to ride it, but I also dread any harm coming to it, and I do 
>> guard it from that. I got a second Platypus that I dedicated to shopping 
>> and traveling with and promised not to be precious about it. But now and 
>> then I still am tempted to backslide. When traveling to the Philly Bike 
>> Expo I dithered about which bike to bring. I didn’t want my raspberry Platy 
>> damaged while locked up at racks and I feared it being stolen. Roberta 
>> said, “I don’t think you have a choice, Leah. That’s the bike people will 
>> expect you to bring.” And she was right, and I did. 
>>
>> Then, there is Pam. Pam is at the other far end of the spectrum. Her bike 
>> is a model of beausage. Innumerable paint chips and little spots of rust 
>> cover her tiny Betty frame. Her Backabike bags are full of holes and the 
>> elastic closures are worn out. She locks it up and never worries about it. 
>> She did not obsessively stare out the restaurant window to see if it was 
>> still locked to the rack while we were at dinner (like yours truly). But 
>> she loves her bike, has real affection for it. She looked at me, eyes 
>> shining, and said exactly that. Ana, PurpleRiv, is another good example to 
>> us. She adores her bike, but has not spared it from hard work. Her bike has 
>> hauled obscene loads and taken her everywhere. I remember there was that 
>> one fateful camping trip for she 1. Posed it for a photo, only to have it 
>> topple and slide down the face of a boulder next to it. I believe she said 
>> she sat there and wept for 2 hours over her Joe Bell paint. And who among 
>> us would not do the same? 2. Same trip, another photo op, and the bike fell 
>> off a cliff. 
>>
>> So, who truly loves their Rivendell? The one who lavishes it with care 
>> and protection? Or the one who pulls it out of the garage and into all of 
>> life - the mundane and the adventurous? 
>>
>> On one end of the spectrum we have those who will only take a Rivendell 
>> out for special occasions so as not to spoil it, and on the other…well, we 
>> have Pam and Ana, who will give it a good thrashing. (Oh, don’t take it 
>> personally, friends, I’m being funny about both types of owners.)
>>
>> I find myself wanting to be precious but fighting it and succeeding 
>> *most* of the time. I’m lucky that the raspberry paint hides beausage and 
>> dirt

Re: [RBW] Re: Using Your Rivendell Vs. Being Precious: A Spectrum

[Jay Lonner]

My Hunq is a daily driver and has the dings and scratches to show for it. Probably the worst one is that the kickstand plate is pried partially loose — no big deal, I just took the kickstand off and used the mounting hardware to snug things back up. Worst case scenario for me is that someday I treat myself to a new paint job and maybe some frame modifications to go along with it. Jay LonnerBellingham, WASent from my Atari 400On Nov 5, 2022, at 4:28 PM, George Schick  wrote:I haven't read Grant's Blahg on this matter (the ancient OS on my computer is so out of date that I can't load certain websites), but what he has to say does not surprise me.  He's always been all about what he calls "beausage," a term he coined to mean "beauty through usage," or IOW don't sweat all of the nicks and scratches, "just ride" your bike and be happy.  The good news though is that there is a happy middle ground between the complete over-the-top utility use of a bike (like Pam's), ignoring any wear and tear versus a finicky protectiveness, hovering over the bike at all times and worrying about theft, damage, etc.  And in my way of thinking that means "just ride" it for all it's worth, but don't just throw it in the corner until the next ride, but take good care of it.  Another way of saying that might be, "... take good care of it and it will take good care of you."This is no different than what one might do having just bought a nice new automobile and drives it everywhere, but also maintains it, washes and waxes it regularly, and is careful where they park it.On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 6:14:45 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:I love this topic! I had my custom designed to answer the question, "What if I had all the qualities I love about Rivendells in a frame made exactly for my size, weight and riding preferences?",  and at first I was super precious about it. Later I realized the whole point was to have a perfect bike I could ride every day for everything and that's what I'm doing.Of course I'm still absurdly touchy about scratching all that beautiful Joe Bell paint but I don't let it stop me, I lock it up at Walmart, I fill the bags with laundry and go to the laundromat. Because I want my bike to do all the things bikes do!Joe Bernard On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 3:15:18 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:Did you read Grant’s Blahg? He covers a lot of ground, but most notable to me was the Please Don’t Be Precious About Your Rivendell section. In sum, Grant is saying it saddens him to think of people riding beater bikes instead of their Rivendells to do daily, monotonous tasks - because those tasks make up a lot of real life. If one “saves” their Rivendell, it will not realize its potential, sit mostly unused and then pass to one’s heirs who will sell it in “near mint” condition on EBay, and how sad. What was the bike for?I have found myself both guilty and innocent on the matter. My #1 favorite bike is my raspberry Platypus. I ride it all the time, because I bought it to ride it, but I also dread any harm coming to it, and I do guard it from that. I got a second Platypus that I dedicated to shopping and traveling with and promised not to be precious about it. But now and then I still am tempted to backslide. When traveling to the Philly Bike Expo I dithered about which bike to bring. I didn’t want my raspberry Platy damaged while locked up at racks and I feared it being stolen. Roberta said, “I don’t think you have a choice, Leah. That’s the bike people will expect you to bring.” And she was right, and I did. Then, there is Pam. Pam is at the other far end of the spectrum. Her bike is a model of beausage. Innumerable paint chips and little spots of rust cover her tiny Betty frame. Her Backabike bags are full of holes and the elastic closures are worn out. She locks it up and never worries about it. She did not obsessively stare out the restaurant window to see if it was still locked to the rack while we were at dinner (like yours truly). But she loves her bike, has real affection for it. She looked at me, eyes shining, and said exactly that. Ana, PurpleRiv, is another good example to us. She adores her bike, but has not spared it from hard work. Her bike has hauled obscene loads and taken her everywhere. I remember there was that one fateful camping trip for she 1. Posed it for a photo, only to have it topple and slide down the face of a boulder next to it. I believe she said she sat there and wept for 2 hours over her Joe Bell paint. And who among us would not do the same? 2. Same trip, another photo op, and the bike fell off a cliff. So, who truly loves their Rivendell? The one who lavishes it with care and protection? Or the one who pulls it out of the garage and into all of life - the mundane and the adventurous? On one end of the spectrum we have those who will only take a Rivendell out for special occasions so as not to spoil it, and on the other…well, we have Pam and Ana, who will give it a good thrashing

Re: [RBW] Re: Using Your Rivendell Vs. Being Precious: A Spectrum

[Joe Bernard]

Leah, I had to do an honest soul-searching about what kind of riding I like 
to do and where the custom is supposed to fit in it. As you know I'm not 
very good at riding to "just ride"..I like to have a place to go, a thing 
to do somewhere on the loop. If I have a designated beater bike for those 
kinds of rides I'll always be on my beater and the Riv will sit gleaming in 
a room. So I said to heck with that! I'm still careful and wouldn't leave 
it locked up outside all day, but I ride my Rivendell. It's comfortable and 
useful and gorgeous and I love it!  


On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 4:24:35 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> Joe, I *know* how worried you were about your paint and now your custom 
> hauls laundry?! This is huge, huge progress. So impressed. And locking up 
> at Walmart can be really scary. Good for you. I’m so glad your custom is 
> doing all the things you meant for it to do. I’m sure you would never be 
> happy riding a beater bike to do these things.
> L
>
> On Nov 5, 2022, at 7:14 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
> I love this topic! I had my custom designed to answer the question, "What 
> if I had all the qualities I love about Rivendells in a frame made exactly 
> for my size, weight and riding preferences?", and at first I was super 
> precious about it. Later I realized the whole point was to have a perfect 
> bike I could ride every day for everything and that's what I'm doing.
>
>
> Of course I'm still absurdly touchy about scratching all that beautiful 
> Joe Bell paint but I don't let it stop me, I lock it up at Walmart, I fill 
> the bags with laundry and go to the laundromat. Because I want my bike to 
> do all the things bikes do!
>
> Joe Bernard 
>
> On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 3:15:18 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> Did you read Grant’s Blahg? He covers a lot of ground, but most notable 
>> to me was the Please Don’t Be Precious About Your Rivendell section. In 
>> sum, Grant is saying it saddens him to think of people riding beater bikes 
>> instead of their Rivendells to do daily, monotonous tasks - because those 
>> tasks make up a lot of real life. If one “saves” their Rivendell, it will 
>> not realize its potential, sit mostly unused and then pass to one’s heirs 
>> who will sell it in “near mint” condition on EBay, and how sad. What was 
>> the bike for?
>>
>> I have found myself both guilty and innocent on the matter. My #1 
>> favorite bike is my raspberry Platypus. I ride it all the time, because I 
>> bought it to ride it, but I also dread any harm coming to it, and I do 
>> guard it from that. I got a second Platypus that I dedicated to shopping 
>> and traveling with and promised not to be precious about it. But now and 
>> then I still am tempted to backslide. When traveling to the Philly Bike 
>> Expo I dithered about which bike to bring. I didn’t want my raspberry Platy 
>> damaged while locked up at racks and I feared it being stolen. Roberta 
>> said, “I don’t think you have a choice, Leah. That’s the bike people will 
>> expect you to bring.” And she was right, and I did. 
>>
>> Then, there is Pam. Pam is at the other far end of the spectrum. Her bike 
>> is a model of beausage. Innumerable paint chips and little spots of rust 
>> cover her tiny Betty frame. Her Backabike bags are full of holes and the 
>> elastic closures are worn out. She locks it up and never worries about it. 
>> She did not obsessively stare out the restaurant window to see if it was 
>> still locked to the rack while we were at dinner (like yours truly). But 
>> she loves her bike, has real affection for it. She looked at me, eyes 
>> shining, and said exactly that. Ana, PurpleRiv, is another good example to 
>> us. She adores her bike, but has not spared it from hard work. Her bike has 
>> hauled obscene loads and taken her everywhere. I remember there was that 
>> one fateful camping trip for she 1. Posed it for a photo, only to have it 
>> topple and slide down the face of a boulder next to it. I believe she said 
>> she sat there and wept for 2 hours over her Joe Bell paint. And who among 
>> us would not do the same? 2. Same trip, another photo op, and the bike fell 
>> off a cliff. 
>>
>> So, who truly loves their Rivendell? The one who lavishes it with care 
>> and protection? Or the one who pulls it out of the garage and into all of 
>> life - the mundane and the adventurous? 
>>
>> On one end of the spectrum we have those who will only take a Rivendell 
>> out for special occasions so as not to spoil it, and on the other…well, we 
>> have Pam and Ana, who will give it a good thrashing. (Oh, don’t take it 
>> personally, friends, I’m being funny about both types of owners.)
>>
>> I find myself wanting to be precious but fighting it and succeeding 
>> *most* of the time. I’m lucky that the raspberry paint hides beausage and 
>> dirt, so it looks pretty new. But a dent in the top tube or a large chip in 
>> the paint would really hurt my 

Re: [RBW] Using Your Rivendell Vs. Being Precious: A Spectrum

[Eric Marth]

First, I have to say that bikes like Pam's Betty are, to my mind and eye, 
the *most *beautiful. Those that show years of love, utility, wear and tens 
of thousands of miles on the road. More beautiful to me by far than a 
perfect fresh paint job. 

I don't go out of my way to abuse my Rivs but I'm a bit careful and when 
the occasional dumb ding or mishap occurs (always my fault! Sometime in 
collaboration with the cruel and indifferent Old Man Gravity) it stings but 
I do my best to let that go. I'm not so much concerned about scrapes, 
dings, chips but I am bothered by real damage that requires replacement or 
repair. 

My Hillborne was repainted by a local frame builder and the paint job is a 
*little 
brittle.* Like, paint popping off from chain slap, paint popping off from 
removing the frame pump. I'm trying to not be too precious about it. 

My Appaloosa is about a year old. This summer I leaned it up against a 
building and I didn't do a good job. It pitched over and I thought "Oh 
*brother*." There's a scratch in my brake lever, can't detect any other 
damage. 

When I had my Surly that sucker pitched over off the kickstand more times 
than I could count. I almost got used to it. Never had any damage to my 
paint, racks. Some scratches to my bar end shifters. 

I have a harder time with true damage to a frame or component where 
something ends up broken. At a bike rack I just don't want someone else to 
do something stupid and bend my rack struts or damage my Schmidt lamp. I 
did get pushed over by a van at low speed in January of 2022 (no injury to 
me, kinda scary, I'm okay). It ruined a wheel (made it into a taco) and 
bent the fork. That was painful and harder to deal with. Appaloosa is road 
worthy as of late spring with a new Rich-built Cliffhanger with a Son hub. 

Enduring damage to a bike that puts it out of commission can "do terrible 
things to, let us say, the gyroscope of the soul," as Tom Wolfe wrote in 
the Right Stuff. 

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 7:26:51 PM UTC-4 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> I like to think I am both. Ride it hard, lavish it with love & hope for 
> the best. I’ve owned bikes more “precious” that most Rivs, custom hand made 
> by one craftsman bikes, and those makers share Grants sentiment. These 
> (bikes) are tools first. That said, nothing wrong with protecting your 
> investment. It’s very hard to not want to protect the beauty of an object 
> someone worked so hard to make beautiful.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 5, 2022, at 6:15 PM, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!  
> wrote:
>
> Did you read Grant’s Blahg? He covers a lot of ground, but most notable 
> to me was the Please Don’t Be Precious About Your Rivendell section. In 
> sum, Grant is saying it saddens him to think of people riding beater bikes 
> instead of their Rivendells to do daily, monotonous tasks - because those 
> tasks make up a lot of real life. If one “saves” their Rivendell, it will 
> not realize its potential, sit mostly unused and then pass to one’s heirs 
> who will sell it in “near mint” condition on EBay, and how sad. What was 
> the bike for?
>
>
> I have found myself both guilty and innocent on the matter. My #1 favorite 
> bike is my raspberry Platypus. I ride it all the time, because I bought it 
> to ride it, but I also dread any harm coming to it, and I do guard it from 
> that. I got a second Platypus that I dedicated to shopping and traveling 
> with and promised not to be precious about it. But now and then I still am 
> tempted to backslide. When traveling to the Philly Bike Expo I dithered 
> about which bike to bring. I didn’t want my raspberry Platy damaged while 
> locked up at racks and I feared it being stolen. Roberta said, “I don’t 
> think you have a choice, Leah. That’s the bike people will expect you to 
> bring.” And she was right, and I did. 
>
> Then, there is Pam. Pam is at the other far end of the spectrum. Her bike 
> is a model of beausage. Innumerable paint chips and little spots of rust 
> cover her tiny Betty frame. Her Backabike bags are full of holes and the 
> elastic closures are worn out. She locks it up and never worries about it. 
> She did not obsessively stare out the restaurant window to see if it was 
> still locked to the rack while we were at dinner (like yours truly). But 
> she loves her bike, has real affection for it. She looked at me, eyes 
> shining, and said exactly that. Ana, PurpleRiv, is another good example to 
> us. She adores her bike, but has not spared it from hard work. Her bike has 
> hauled obscene loads and taken her everywhere. I remember there was that 
> one fateful camping trip for she 1. Posed it for a photo, only to have it 
> topple and slide down the face of a boulder next to it. I believe she said 
> she sat there and wept for 2 hours over her Joe Bell paint. And who among 
> us would not do the same? 2. Same trip, another photo op, and the bike fell 
> off a cliff. 
>
> So, who truly loves their Rivendell? Th

[RBW] Tires, tubes and Cliffhangers

[Richard Rose]

Vague heading, sorry. Has anyone mounted Simworks Homage tires to 
Cliffhanger rims? The Homage is not "tubeless compatible" though plenty of 
folks have done it anyway. But I do not know about doing so with a 
Cliffhanger?
I am mounting mine with tubes, at least to start. But I ran into a problem. 
I was on the Rene Herse site and they supply 26" Schwalbe tubes for their 
650B tires. They indicate they stretch to fit and do not even offer 27.5 
tubes. Well, I tried. With a 26" tube it was impossible to mount the tire. 
After trying for about 40 minutes I tried it with a 27.5" tube - mounted 
easily. Why would Rene Herse suggest such a thing? Why did I believe them?
Anyway, I am looking forward to giving these 55mm beauties a go.

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[RBW] Re: Using Your Rivendell Vs. Being Precious: A Spectrum

[Piaw Na]

I buy my bicycles to ride. So I ride them. I don't wax the chains, 
preferring to just replace them when they're worn out rather than spend 
time waxing them. I ride my road bikes off road, with and without a load. 
My tandem/triplet has paint patches all over, and I expect that to 
eventually happen to my Roadini (which has already got a paint chip within 
a week of me riding it!). I've cracked 2 titaninium frames that were custom 
built and on my 3rd (hence the roadini as a backup!). I will say that the 
nice thing about titanium is that being harder than steel it doesn't 
scratch easily and there's no paint to chip!

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 3:15:18 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> Did you read Grant’s Blahg? He covers a lot of ground, but most notable to 
> me was the Please Don’t Be Precious About Your Rivendell section. In sum, 
> Grant is saying it saddens him to think of people riding beater bikes 
> instead of their Rivendells to do daily, monotonous tasks - because those 
> tasks make up a lot of real life. If one “saves” their Rivendell, it will 
> not realize its potential, sit mostly unused and then pass to one’s heirs 
> who will sell it in “near mint” condition on EBay, and how sad. What was 
> the bike for?
>
> I have found myself both guilty and innocent on the matter. My #1 favorite 
> bike is my raspberry Platypus. I ride it all the time, because I bought it 
> to ride it, but I also dread any harm coming to it, and I do guard it from 
> that. I got a second Platypus that I dedicated to shopping and traveling 
> with and promised not to be precious about it. But now and then I still am 
> tempted to backslide. When traveling to the Philly Bike Expo I dithered 
> about which bike to bring. I didn’t want my raspberry Platy damaged while 
> locked up at racks and I feared it being stolen. Roberta said, “I don’t 
> think you have a choice, Leah. That’s the bike people will expect you to 
> bring.” And she was right, and I did. 
>
> Then, there is Pam. Pam is at the other far end of the spectrum. Her bike 
> is a model of beausage. Innumerable paint chips and little spots of rust 
> cover her tiny Betty frame. Her Backabike bags are full of holes and the 
> elastic closures are worn out. She locks it up and never worries about it. 
> She did not obsessively stare out the restaurant window to see if it was 
> still locked to the rack while we were at dinner (like yours truly). But 
> she loves her bike, has real affection for it. She looked at me, eyes 
> shining, and said exactly that. Ana, PurpleRiv, is another good example to 
> us. She adores her bike, but has not spared it from hard work. Her bike has 
> hauled obscene loads and taken her everywhere. I remember there was that 
> one fateful camping trip for she 1. Posed it for a photo, only to have it 
> topple and slide down the face of a boulder next to it. I believe she said 
> she sat there and wept for 2 hours over her Joe Bell paint. And who among 
> us would not do the same? 2. Same trip, another photo op, and the bike fell 
> off a cliff. 
>
> So, who truly loves their Rivendell? The one who lavishes it with care and 
> protection? Or the one who pulls it out of the garage and into all of life 
> - the mundane and the adventurous? 
>
> On one end of the spectrum we have those who will only take a Rivendell 
> out for special occasions so as not to spoil it, and on the other…well, we 
> have Pam and Ana, who will give it a good thrashing. (Oh, don’t take it 
> personally, friends, I’m being funny about both types of owners.)
>
> I find myself wanting to be precious but fighting it and succeeding *most* 
> of the time. I’m lucky that the raspberry paint hides beausage and dirt, so 
> it looks pretty new. But a dent in the top tube or a large chip in the 
> paint would really hurt my feelings. Heaven help me. 
>
> Where are you on the spectrum? What words of wisdom might you have? What 
> strategies do you employ? Do you want to change? Or are you 
> unapologetically staying put on the matter? It might be fun to hear 
> perspectives.
> Leah
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Using Your Rivendell Vs. Being Precious: A Spectrum

[aeroperf]

I had this discussion with my wife today, because she is about to join the 
Riv Sisters with a Platypus.  I ordered her frame yesterday.
The discussion turned to lights.  Add a front hub generator and a light, 
and now you’re talking over $4000 for the bike she wants.
$1750 for a frame, $400 for a set of wheels, $225 for the generator hub, 
add fenders, etc., and pretty soon you’re talking real money.

Then the discussion turned to “precious”.  Is she going to ride it to 
downtown Atlanta and lock it to a lamp pole?  
With my Sam, the question also arose.  Every 5 years I strip it to the bare 
frame and reassemble after cleaning and lubing everything.
So it looks like new and I have a bit of trepidation taking it to town and 
locking it to a bike rack.  But I still do it, Brooks B17 and all.

We each have decent, comfortable $800 bikes in addition to our Rivs.  Which 
do we ride?  How many locks do we take today?
It wouldn’t be so bad if you could get a replacement Riv.  But the 
shipments come in every other year (if that often).  So if yours is stolen 
and you want another…what, 55 Sam?  Wait two years and hope for a good 
lottery number?  Will it ride the same or have the chainstays grown again?  
Does my size now come with 650b wheels when everything else I have is 700c?

I ride the Sam almost every day because I live on a bike trail.  It never 
leaves my sight on those rides.
But when the discussion is “Let’s go shopping for groceries at Publix, lock 
the bike, spend a half hour shopping, and then come out and see if it’s 
still there”…well…
I’m not worried about beausage.  I’m worried about finding it gone.

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[RBW] Re: Powder coated Clem H!

[Michael Morrissey]

That looks great. What is the color? Looks like a golden bronze to me.


On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 8:25:03 PM UTC-4 fra...@gmail.com wrote:

> [image: 68C8C83C-74E2-48D6-9B55-6AEB160F7DAC.jpeg][image: 
> D5CC92E0-9FE1-4F8A-934F-44DC1EE69755.jpeg]
>
>
> Waiting for the frame saver to fully dry before finishing building it back 
> up. I had to replace the fork and it was bare, decided to go for powder 
> since it is my commuter and ride in plenty of weather. I am amazed that he 
> was able to do the details and accents so well, super happy with how it 
> turned out!
>

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[RBW] Re: Powder coated Clem H!

[Ryan Frahm]

Thank you! It’s a prismatic color called whiskey bronze. The accents are 
RAL 1013. 

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 5:28:20 PM UTC-7 Michael Morrissey wrote:

> That looks great. What is the color? Looks like a golden bronze to me.
>
>
> On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 8:25:03 PM UTC-4 fra...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> [image: 68C8C83C-74E2-48D6-9B55-6AEB160F7DAC.jpeg][image: 
>> D5CC92E0-9FE1-4F8A-934F-44DC1EE69755.jpeg]
>>
>>
>> Waiting for the frame saver to fully dry before finishing building it 
>> back up. I had to replace the fork and it was bare, decided to go for 
>> powder since it is my commuter and ride in plenty of weather. I am amazed 
>> that he was able to do the details and accents so well, super happy with 
>> how it turned out!
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Using Your Rivendell Vs. Being Precious: A Spectrum

[Richard Rose]

When I was talking to Will about getting a double legged kickstand he warned me 
about the “peeling” mounting plate on the Clems. But, he thought I would be ok 
they had beefed them up. So far so good.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 5, 2022, at 7:44 PM, Jay Lonner  wrote:
> 
> 
> My Hunq is a daily driver and has the dings and scratches to show for it. 
> Probably the worst one is that the kickstand plate is pried partially loose — 
> no big deal, I just took the kickstand off and used the mounting hardware to 
> snug things back up. Worst case scenario for me is that someday I treat 
> myself to a new paint job and maybe some frame modifications to go along with 
> it. 
> 
> Jay Lonner
> Bellingham, WA
> 
> Sent from my Atari 400
> 
>>> On Nov 5, 2022, at 4:28 PM, George Schick  wrote:
>>> 
>> I haven't read Grant's Blahg on this matter (the ancient OS on my computer 
>> is so out of date that I can't load certain websites), but what he has to 
>> say does not surprise me.  He's always been all about what he calls 
>> "beausage," a term he coined to mean "beauty through usage," or IOW don't 
>> sweat all of the nicks and scratches, "just ride" your bike and be happy.  
>> The good news though is that there is a happy middle ground between the 
>> complete over-the-top utility use of a bike (like Pam's), ignoring any wear 
>> and tear versus a finicky protectiveness, hovering over the bike at all 
>> times and worrying about theft, damage, etc.  And in my way of thinking that 
>> means "just ride" it for all it's worth, but don't just throw it in the 
>> corner until the next ride, but take good care of it.  Another way of saying 
>> that might be, "... take good care of it and it will take good care of you."
>> This is no different than what one might do having just bought a nice new 
>> automobile and drives it everywhere, but also maintains it, washes and waxes 
>> it regularly, and is careful where they park it.
>> 
>>> On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 6:14:45 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>> I love this topic! I had my custom designed to answer the question, "What 
>>> if I had all the qualities I love about Rivendells in a frame made exactly 
>>> for my size, weight and riding preferences?", and at first I was super 
>>> precious about it. Later I realized the whole point was to have a perfect 
>>> bike I could ride every day for everything and that's what I'm doing.
>>> 
>>> Of course I'm still absurdly touchy about scratching all that beautiful Joe 
>>> Bell paint but I don't let it stop me, I lock it up at Walmart, I fill the 
>>> bags with laundry and go to the laundromat. Because I want my bike to do 
>>> all the things bikes do!
>>> 
>>> Joe Bernard 
>>> 
 On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 3:15:18 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
 wrote:
 Did you read Grant’s Blahg? He covers a lot of ground, but most notable to 
 me was the Please Don’t Be Precious About Your Rivendell section. In sum, 
 Grant is saying it saddens him to think of people riding beater bikes 
 instead of their Rivendells to do daily, monotonous tasks - because those 
 tasks make up a lot of real life. If one “saves” their Rivendell, it will 
 not realize its potential, sit mostly unused and then pass to one’s heirs 
 who will sell it in “near mint” condition on EBay, and how sad. What was 
 the bike for?
 
 I have found myself both guilty and innocent on the matter. My #1 favorite 
 bike is my raspberry Platypus. I ride it all the time, because I bought it 
 to ride it, but I also dread any harm coming to it, and I do guard it from 
 that. I got a second Platypus that I dedicated to shopping and traveling 
 with and promised not to be precious about it. But now and then I still am 
 tempted to backslide. When traveling to the Philly Bike Expo I dithered 
 about which bike to bring. I didn’t want my raspberry Platy damaged while 
 locked up at racks and I feared it being stolen. Roberta said, “I don’t 
 think you have a choice, Leah. That’s the bike people will expect you to 
 bring.” And she was right, and I did. 
 
 Then, there is Pam. Pam is at the other far end of the spectrum. Her bike 
 is a model of beausage. Innumerable paint chips and little spots of rust 
 cover her tiny Betty frame. Her Backabike bags are full of holes and the 
 elastic closures are worn out. She locks it up and never worries about it. 
 She did not obsessively stare out the restaurant window to see if it was 
 still locked to the rack while we were at dinner (like yours truly). But 
 she loves her bike, has real affection for it. She looked at me, eyes 
 shining, and said exactly that. Ana, PurpleRiv, is another good example to 
 us. She adores her bike, but has not spared it from hard work. Her bike 
 has hauled obscene loads and taken her everywhere. I remember there was 
 that one fateful camping trip for she 1. Pos

Re: [RBW] Powder coated Clem H!

[Ryan Frahm]

Thank you Richard!

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 5:41:11 PM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> One of a kind! Beautiful!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 5, 2022, at 8:25 PM, Ryan Frahm  wrote:
>
> [image: 68C8C83C-74E2-48D6-9B55-6AEB160F7DAC.jpeg][image: 
> D5CC92E0-9FE1-4F8A-934F-44DC1EE69755.jpeg]
>
>
>
>
> Waiting for the frame saver to fully dry before finishing building it back 
> up. I had to replace the fork and it was bare, decided to go for powder 
> since it is my commuter and ride in plenty of weather. I am amazed that he 
> was able to do the details and accents so well, super happy with how it 
> turned out!
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/9fac389b-c568-4d4d-92d6-721741f6a14en%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 
> .
> [image: D5CC92E0-9FE1-4F8A-934F-44DC1EE69755.jpeg][image: 
> 68C8C83C-74E2-48D6-9B55-6AEB160F7DAC.jpeg]
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Using Your Rivendell Vs. Being Precious: A Spectrum

[藍俊彪]

What does a peeling mounting plate look like? Anyone have pictures? Not
that I have kickstands on any of my bikes --- the one on the triplet got
taken off ages ago... Just curious.

On Sat, Nov 5, 2022 at 5:49 PM Richard Rose  wrote:

> When I was talking to Will about getting a double legged kickstand he
> warned me about the “peeling” mounting plate on the Clems. But, he thought
> I would be ok they had beefed them up. So far so good.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 5, 2022, at 7:44 PM, Jay Lonner  wrote:
>
> 
> My Hunq is a daily driver and has the dings and scratches to show for it.
> Probably the worst one is that the kickstand plate is pried partially loose
> — no big deal, I just took the kickstand off and used the mounting hardware
> to snug things back up. Worst case scenario for me is that someday I treat
> myself to a new paint job and maybe some frame modifications to go along
> with it.
>
> Jay Lonner
> Bellingham, WA
>
> Sent from my Atari 400
>
> On Nov 5, 2022, at 4:28 PM, George Schick  wrote:
>
> I haven't read Grant's Blahg on this matter (the ancient OS on my
> computer is so out of date that I can't load certain websites), but what he
> has to say does not surprise me.  He's always been all about what he calls
> "beausage," a term he coined to mean "beauty through usage," or IOW don't
> sweat all of the nicks and scratches, "just ride" your bike and be happy.
> The good news though is that there is a happy middle ground between the
> complete over-the-top utility use of a bike (like Pam's), ignoring any wear
> and tear versus a finicky protectiveness, hovering over the bike at all
> times and worrying about theft, damage, etc.  And in my way of thinking
> that means "just ride" it for all it's worth, but don't just throw it in
> the corner until the next ride, but take good care of it.  Another way of
> saying that might be, "... take good care of it and it will take good care
> of you."
> This is no different than what one might do having just bought a nice new
> automobile and drives it everywhere, but also maintains it, washes and
> waxes it regularly, and is careful where they park it.
>
> On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 6:14:45 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> I love this topic! I had my custom designed to answer the question, "What
>> if I had all the qualities I love about Rivendells in a frame made exactly
>> for my size, weight and riding preferences?", and at first I was super
>> precious about it. Later I realized the whole point was to have a perfect
>> bike I could ride every day for everything and that's what I'm doing.
>>
>> Of course I'm still absurdly touchy about scratching all that beautiful
>> Joe Bell paint but I don't let it stop me, I lock it up at Walmart, I fill
>> the bags with laundry and go to the laundromat. Because I want my bike to
>> do all the things bikes do!
>>
>> Joe Bernard
>>
>> On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 3:15:18 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding
>> Ding! wrote:
>>
>>> Did you read Grant’s Blahg? He covers a lot of ground, but most notable
>>> to me was the Please Don’t Be Precious About Your Rivendell section. In
>>> sum, Grant is saying it saddens him to think of people riding beater bikes
>>> instead of their Rivendells to do daily, monotonous tasks - because those
>>> tasks make up a lot of real life. If one “saves” their Rivendell, it will
>>> not realize its potential, sit mostly unused and then pass to one’s heirs
>>> who will sell it in “near mint” condition on EBay, and how sad. What was
>>> the bike for?
>>>
>>> I have found myself both guilty and innocent on the matter. My #1
>>> favorite bike is my raspberry Platypus. I ride it all the time, because I
>>> bought it to ride it, but I also dread any harm coming to it, and I do
>>> guard it from that. I got a second Platypus that I dedicated to shopping
>>> and traveling with and promised not to be precious about it. But now and
>>> then I still am tempted to backslide. When traveling to the Philly Bike
>>> Expo I dithered about which bike to bring. I didn’t want my raspberry Platy
>>> damaged while locked up at racks and I feared it being stolen. Roberta
>>> said, “I don’t think you have a choice, Leah. That’s the bike people will
>>> expect you to bring.” And she was right, and I did.
>>>
>>> Then, there is Pam. Pam is at the other far end of the spectrum. Her
>>> bike is a model of beausage. Innumerable paint chips and little spots of
>>> rust cover her tiny Betty frame. Her Backabike bags are full of holes and
>>> the elastic closures are worn out. She locks it up and never worries about
>>> it. She did not obsessively stare out the restaurant window to see if it
>>> was still locked to the rack while we were at dinner (like yours truly).
>>> But she loves her bike, has real affection for it. She looked at me, eyes
>>> shining, and said exactly that. Ana, PurpleRiv, is another good example to
>>> us. She adores her bike, but has not spared it from hard work. Her bike has
>>> hau

[RBW] Re: FS Silver 2 bar end shifters

[Michael Baquerizo]

any interest in keeping the pods and selling the shifters?

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 4:08:35 PM UTC-4 lconley wrote:

> Rivendell Silver 2 bar end shifters mounted on Shimano Bar End Pods. 2 
> minutes with a Dremel tool on the pods and spacers and a second metal 
> washer and everything fits and lines up just fine. Mounted and tested, but 
> everything is otherwise new. $115 shipped CONUS or best offer.
>
> [image: lineups.jpg][image: XO bar endss.jpg]
>
> Laing
> Delray Beach FL
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Using Your Rivendell Vs. Being Precious: A Spectrum

[Jay Lonner]

I don’t have a picture, just imagine the weld giving way and the plate separating from the seat stays. I was using a double-legged kickstand at the time and carrying a fair amount of cargo (see attached), and evidently the seesawing action was enough to pry things loose. It bummed me out for maybe half a day, but it’s been fine ever since, now I just use the kickstand plate as a fender attachment point.Jay LonnerBellingham, WASent from my Atari 400On Nov 5, 2022, at 5:54 PM, Piaw Na  wrote:What does a peeling mounting plate look like? Anyone have pictures? Not that I have kickstands on any of my bikes --- the one on the triplet got taken off ages ago... Just curious.On Sat, Nov 5, 2022 at 5:49 PM Richard Rose  wrote:When I was talking to Will about getting a double legged kickstand he warned me about the “peeling” mounting plate on the Clems. But, he thought I would be ok they had beefed them up. So far so good.Sent from my iPhoneOn Nov 5, 2022, at 7:44 PM, Jay Lonner  wrote:My Hunq is a daily driver and has the dings and scratches to show for it. Probably the worst one is that the kickstand plate is pried partially loose — no big deal, I just took the kickstand off and used the mounting hardware to snug things back up. Worst case scenario for me is that someday I treat myself to a new paint job and maybe some frame modifications to go along with it. Jay LonnerBellingham, WASent from my Atari 400On Nov 5, 2022, at 4:28 PM, George Schick  wrote:I haven't read Grant's Blahg on this matter (the ancient OS on my computer is so out of date that I can't load certain websites), but what he has to say does not surprise me.  He's always been all about what he calls "beausage," a term he coined to mean "beauty through usage," or IOW don't sweat all of the nicks and scratches, "just ride" your bike and be happy.  The good news though is that there is a happy middle ground between the complete over-the-top utility use of a bike (like Pam's), ignoring any wear and tear versus a finicky protectiveness, hovering over the bike at all times and worrying about theft, damage, etc.  And in my way of thinking that means "just ride" it for all it's worth, but don't just throw it in the corner until the next ride, but take good care of it.  Another way of saying that might be, "... take good care of it and it will take good care of you."This is no different than what one might do having just bought a nice new automobile and drives it everywhere, but also maintains it, washes and waxes it regularly, and is careful where they park it.On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 6:14:45 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:I love this topic! I had my custom designed to answer the question, "What if I had all the qualities I love about Rivendells in a frame made exactly for my size, weight and riding preferences?",  and at first I was super precious about it. Later I realized the whole point was to have a perfect bike I could ride every day for everything and that's what I'm doing.Of course I'm still absurdly touchy about scratching all that beautiful Joe Bell paint but I don't let it stop me, I lock it up at Walmart, I fill the bags with laundry and go to the laundromat. Because I want my bike to do all the things bikes do!Joe Bernard On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 3:15:18 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:Did you read Grant’s Blahg? He covers a lot of ground, but most notable to me was the Please Don’t Be Precious About Your Rivendell section. In sum, Grant is saying it saddens him to think of people riding beater bikes instead of their Rivendells to do daily, monotonous tasks - because those tasks make up a lot of real life. If one “saves” their Rivendell, it will not realize its potential, sit mostly unused and then pass to one’s heirs who will sell it in “near mint” condition on EBay, and how sad. What was the bike for?I have found myself both guilty and innocent on the matter. My #1 favorite bike is my raspberry Platypus. I ride it all the time, because I bought it to ride it, but I also dread any harm coming to it, and I do guard it from that. I got a second Platypus that I dedicated to shopping and traveling with and promised not to be precious about it. But now and then I still am tempted to backslide. When traveling to the Philly Bike Expo I dithered about which bike to bring. I didn’t want my raspberry Platy damaged while locked up at racks and I feared it being stolen. Roberta said, “I don’t think you have a choice, Leah. That’s the bike people will expect you to bring.” And she was right, and I did. Then, there is Pam. Pam is at the other far end of the spectrum. Her bike is a model of beausage. Innumerable paint chips and little spots of rust cover her tiny Betty frame. Her Backabike bags are full of holes and the elastic closures are worn out. She locks it up and never worries about it. She did not obsessively stare out the restaurant window to see if it was still loc

Re: [RBW] Re: Using Your Rivendell Vs. Being Precious: A Spectrum

[藍俊彪]

No damage to the frame? Or did you have to get it repaired?

On Sat, Nov 5, 2022 at 6:08 PM Jay Lonner  wrote:

> I don’t have a picture, just imagine the weld giving way and the plate
> separating from the seat stays. I was using a double-legged kickstand at
> the time and carrying a fair amount of cargo (see attached), and evidently
> the seesawing action was enough to pry things loose. It bummed me out for
> maybe half a day, but it’s been fine ever since, now I just use the
> kickstand plate as a fender attachment point.
>
> Jay Lonner
> Bellingham, WA
>
> Sent from my Atari 400
>
> [image: IMG_0750]
>
> On Nov 5, 2022, at 5:54 PM, Piaw Na  wrote:
>
> 
> What does a peeling mounting plate look like? Anyone have pictures? Not
> that I have kickstands on any of my bikes --- the one on the triplet got
> taken off ages ago... Just curious.
>
> On Sat, Nov 5, 2022 at 5:49 PM Richard Rose  wrote:
>
>> When I was talking to Will about getting a double legged kickstand he
>> warned me about the “peeling” mounting plate on the Clems. But, he thought
>> I would be ok they had beefed them up. So far so good.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Nov 5, 2022, at 7:44 PM, Jay Lonner  wrote:
>>
>> 
>> My Hunq is a daily driver and has the dings and scratches to show for
>> it. Probably the worst one is that the kickstand plate is pried partially
>> loose — no big deal, I just took the kickstand off and used the mounting
>> hardware to snug things back up. Worst case scenario for me is that someday
>> I treat myself to a new paint job and maybe some frame modifications to go
>> along with it.
>>
>> Jay Lonner
>> Bellingham, WA
>>
>> Sent from my Atari 400
>>
>> On Nov 5, 2022, at 4:28 PM, George Schick  wrote:
>>
>> I haven't read Grant's Blahg on this matter (the ancient OS on my
>> computer is so out of date that I can't load certain websites), but what he
>> has to say does not surprise me.  He's always been all about what he calls
>> "beausage," a term he coined to mean "beauty through usage," or IOW don't
>> sweat all of the nicks and scratches, "just ride" your bike and be happy.
>> The good news though is that there is a happy middle ground between the
>> complete over-the-top utility use of a bike (like Pam's), ignoring any wear
>> and tear versus a finicky protectiveness, hovering over the bike at all
>> times and worrying about theft, damage, etc.  And in my way of thinking
>> that means "just ride" it for all it's worth, but don't just throw it in
>> the corner until the next ride, but take good care of it.  Another way of
>> saying that might be, "... take good care of it and it will take good care
>> of you."
>> This is no different than what one might do having just bought a nice new
>> automobile and drives it everywhere, but also maintains it, washes and
>> waxes it regularly, and is careful where they park it.
>>
>> On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 6:14:45 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> I love this topic! I had my custom designed to answer the question,
>>> "What if I had all the qualities I love about Rivendells in a frame made
>>> exactly for my size, weight and riding preferences?", and at first I was
>>> super precious about it. Later I realized the whole point was to have a
>>> perfect bike I could ride every day for everything and that's what I'm
>>> doing.
>>>
>>> Of course I'm still absurdly touchy about scratching all that beautiful
>>> Joe Bell paint but I don't let it stop me, I lock it up at Walmart, I fill
>>> the bags with laundry and go to the laundromat. Because I want my bike to
>>> do all the things bikes do!
>>>
>>> Joe Bernard
>>>
>>> On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 3:15:18 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding
>>> Ding! wrote:
>>>
 Did you read Grant’s Blahg? He covers a lot of ground, but most notable
 to me was the Please Don’t Be Precious About Your Rivendell section. In
 sum, Grant is saying it saddens him to think of people riding beater bikes
 instead of their Rivendells to do daily, monotonous tasks - because those
 tasks make up a lot of real life. If one “saves” their Rivendell, it will
 not realize its potential, sit mostly unused and then pass to one’s heirs
 who will sell it in “near mint” condition on EBay, and how sad. What was
 the bike for?

 I have found myself both guilty and innocent on the matter. My #1
 favorite bike is my raspberry Platypus. I ride it all the time, because I
 bought it to ride it, but I also dread any harm coming to it, and I do
 guard it from that. I got a second Platypus that I dedicated to shopping
 and traveling with and promised not to be precious about it. But now and
 then I still am tempted to backslide. When traveling to the Philly Bike
 Expo I dithered about which bike to bring. I didn’t want my raspberry Platy
 damaged while locked up at racks and I feared it being stolen. Roberta
 said, “I don’t think you have a choice, Leah. That’s the bike people will
 expe

Re: [RBW] Re: Using Your Rivendell Vs. Being Precious: A Spectrum

[Jay Lonner]

No damage that I could detect. The kickstand plate isn’t integral to the frame, it’s just tacked on with some not-very-strong welds. I’m fairly certain it could be removed with only superficial damage to the paint, but then I’d have nothing to attach a fender to. Jay LonnerBellingham, WASent from my Atari 400On Nov 5, 2022, at 6:13 PM, Piaw Na  wrote:No damage to the frame? Or did you have to get it repaired?On Sat, Nov 5, 2022 at 6:08 PM Jay Lonner  wrote:I don’t have a picture, just imagine the weld giving way and the plate separating from the seat stays. I was using a double-legged kickstand at the time and carrying a fair amount of cargo (see attached), and evidently the seesawing action was enough to pry things loose. It bummed me out for maybe half a day, but it’s been fine ever since, now I just use the kickstand plate as a fender attachment point.Jay LonnerBellingham, WASent from my Atari 400On Nov 5, 2022, at 5:54 PM, Piaw Na  wrote:What does a peeling mounting plate look like? Anyone have pictures? Not that I have kickstands on any of my bikes --- the one on the triplet got taken off ages ago... Just curious.On Sat, Nov 5, 2022 at 5:49 PM Richard Rose  wrote:When I was talking to Will about getting a double legged kickstand he warned me about the “peeling” mounting plate on the Clems. But, he thought I would be ok they had beefed them up. So far so good.Sent from my iPhoneOn Nov 5, 2022, at 7:44 PM, Jay Lonner  wrote:My Hunq is a daily driver and has the dings and scratches to show for it. Probably the worst one is that the kickstand plate is pried partially loose — no big deal, I just took the kickstand off and used the mounting hardware to snug things back up. Worst case scenario for me is that someday I treat myself to a new paint job and maybe some frame modifications to go along with it. Jay LonnerBellingham, WASent from my Atari 400On Nov 5, 2022, at 4:28 PM, George Schick  wrote:I haven't read Grant's Blahg on this matter (the ancient OS on my computer is so out of date that I can't load certain websites), but what he has to say does not surprise me.  He's always been all about what he calls "beausage," a term he coined to mean "beauty through usage," or IOW don't sweat all of the nicks and scratches, "just ride" your bike and be happy.  The good news though is that there is a happy middle ground between the complete over-the-top utility use of a bike (like Pam's), ignoring any wear and tear versus a finicky protectiveness, hovering over the bike at all times and worrying about theft, damage, etc.  And in my way of thinking that means "just ride" it for all it's worth, but don't just throw it in the corner until the next ride, but take good care of it.  Another way of saying that might be, "... take good care of it and it will take good care of you."This is no different than what one might do having just bought a nice new automobile and drives it everywhere, but also maintains it, washes and waxes it regularly, and is careful where they park it.On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 6:14:45 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:I love this topic! I had my custom designed to answer the question, "What if I had all the qualities I love about Rivendells in a frame made exactly for my size, weight and riding preferences?",  and at first I was super precious about it. Later I realized the whole point was to have a perfect bike I could ride every day for everything and that's what I'm doing.Of course I'm still absurdly touchy about scratching all that beautiful Joe Bell paint but I don't let it stop me, I lock it up at Walmart, I fill the bags with laundry and go to the laundromat. Because I want my bike to do all the things bikes do!Joe Bernard On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 3:15:18 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:Did you read Grant’s Blahg? He covers a lot of ground, but most notable to me was the Please Don’t Be Precious About Your Rivendell section. In sum, Grant is saying it saddens him to think of people riding beater bikes instead of their Rivendells to do daily, monotonous tasks - because those tasks make up a lot of real life. If one “saves” their Rivendell, it will not realize its potential, sit mostly unused and then pass to one’s heirs who will sell it in “near mint” condition on EBay, and how sad. What was the bike for?I have found myself both guilty and innocent on the matter. My #1 favorite bike is my raspberry Platypus. I ride it all the time, because I bought it to ride it, but I also dread any harm coming to it, and I do guard it from that. I got a second Platypus that I dedicated to shopping and traveling with and promised not to be precious about it. But now and then I still am tempted to backslide. When traveling to the Philly Bike Expo I dithered about which bike to bring. I didn’t want my raspberry Platy damaged while locked up at racks and I feared it being stolen. Roberta sai

Re: [RBW] Powder coated Clem H!

[Michael Baquerizo]

worthy of some resurecttio decals no?

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 8:51:58 PM UTC-4 fra...@gmail.com wrote:

> Thank you Richard!
>
> On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 5:41:11 PM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> One of a kind! Beautiful!
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Nov 5, 2022, at 8:25 PM, Ryan Frahm  wrote:
>>
>> [image: 68C8C83C-74E2-48D6-9B55-6AEB160F7DAC.jpeg][image: 
>> D5CC92E0-9FE1-4F8A-934F-44DC1EE69755.jpeg]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Waiting for the frame saver to fully dry before finishing building it 
>> back up. I had to replace the fork and it was bare, decided to go for 
>> powder since it is my commuter and ride in plenty of weather. I am amazed 
>> that he was able to do the details and accents so well, super happy with 
>> how it turned out!
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/9fac389b-c568-4d4d-92d6-721741f6a14en%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>> [image: D5CC92E0-9FE1-4F8A-934F-44DC1EE69755.jpeg][image: 
>> 68C8C83C-74E2-48D6-9B55-6AEB160F7DAC.jpeg]
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Using Your Rivendell Vs. Being Precious: A Spectrum

[J J]

Thanks for starting this thread, Leah. I enjoy your writing… as I enjoy 
Grant’s. He’s very funny even when discussing serious things. At least I 
see some humor there, whether he intends it or not. 

Anyway, my daily ride is a Hunqapillar that I bought new about 11 years 
ago. I was precious about it for a hot minute, but a) I realized pretty 
quickly that it was futile and thus stressful to try to avoid dings and 
scratches; b) I reminded myself that a primary reason I got the Hunq was 
that I wanted a fun do-everything bike, an “all rounder plus”, the plus 
being that it is robust enough to carry me and any size load I wanted to 
haul, for as long as I want to haul it. 

So I use it in that way. I will take it grocery or farmers market shopping. 
I run errands with it. I use three or four locks. I used to occasionally 
commute to work on it (before my office went to mostly full-time remote 
work post-pandemic), but I realized that I do not enjoy *commuting* by 
bike. I live in a busy area in DC and the morning and afternoon rush hour 
commuting *energy* — definitely from cars, but also other bikers, 
 including the rushing, the noises, the risk taking, the aggressiveness — 
was turning one of my very favorite activities, riding a bike, into another 
source of stress. It was as if commuting by bike was starting to sully my 
relationship to my bike and to biking. And I did not want that. 

This sort of goes against Grant’s notion, or at least hope, that biking 
will be a huge part of people’s everyday lives. As far as a commute goes, 
it’s aspirational for me. I will do that when there are protected bike 
lanes and much fewer cars on the road. I am not keen on being a martyr for 
the cause of biking (or commuting!). The sort of change in road and bike 
infrastructure that I’d like to see (and I imagine most of us want) 
requires collective action, organizing, and so on. Individuals can only do 
so much. 

By the way, my bike’s kickstand mounting plate also “peeled” partway off. I 
sent photos of it to Riv and Will said: “yeah we see that on some of our 
bikes, best thing to do is to buy the kickstand mounting hardware and a 
long bolt to pass through the (peeled) plate.” I believe it was a very rare 
for Rivendell design or manufacturing misstep. The weld simply was not 
strong enough. The peeling exposed a big area of raw steel on a part of the 
bike that is most likely to get wet and mucked up. I just have to be 
mindful of it. No rust has developed, I clean and treat it regularly, and 
one day I’ll get it repaired and reinforced and repainted (I’ve been 
telling myself this for a few years now! — I just can’t stand to be without 
the bike even for a day. 

Jim

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 9:13:39 PM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> No damage to the frame? Or did you have to get it repaired?
>
> On Sat, Nov 5, 2022 at 6:08 PM Jay Lonner  wrote:
>
>> I don’t have a picture, just imagine the weld giving way and the plate 
>> separating from the seat stays. I was using a double-legged kickstand at 
>> the time and carrying a fair amount of cargo (see attached), and evidently 
>> the seesawing action was enough to pry things loose. It bummed me out for 
>> maybe half a day, but it’s been fine ever since, now I just use the 
>> kickstand plate as a fender attachment point.
>>
>> Jay Lonner
>> Bellingham, WA
>>
>> Sent from my Atari 400
>>
>> [image: IMG_0750]
>>
>> On Nov 5, 2022, at 5:54 PM, Piaw Na  wrote:
>>
>> 
>> What does a peeling mounting plate look like? Anyone have pictures? Not 
>> that I have kickstands on any of my bikes --- the one on the triplet got 
>> taken off ages ago... Just curious.
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 5, 2022 at 5:49 PM Richard Rose  wrote:
>>
>>> When I was talking to Will about getting a double legged kickstand he 
>>> warned me about the “peeling” mounting plate on the Clems. But, he thought 
>>> I would be ok they had beefed them up. So far so good.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Nov 5, 2022, at 7:44 PM, Jay Lonner  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> My Hunq is a daily driver and has the dings and scratches to show for 
>>> it. Probably the worst one is that the kickstand plate is pried partially 
>>> loose — no big deal, I just took the kickstand off and used the mounting 
>>> hardware to snug things back up. Worst case scenario for me is that someday 
>>> I treat myself to a new paint job and maybe some frame modifications to go 
>>> along with it. 
>>>
>>> Jay Lonner
>>> Bellingham, WA
>>>
>>> Sent from my Atari 400
>>>
>>> On Nov 5, 2022, at 4:28 PM, George Schick  wrote:
>>>
>>> I haven't read Grant's Blahg on this matter (the ancient OS on my 
>>> computer is so out of date that I can't load certain websites), but what he 
>>> has to say does not surprise me.  He's always been all about what he calls 
>>> "beausage," a term he coined to mean "beauty through usage," or IOW don't 
>>> sweat all of the nicks and scratches, "just ride" your bike and be happy.  
>>> The good news th

Re: [RBW] Powder coated Clem H!

[Ryan Frahm]

I thought about it. It all kinda came together quickly and I needed my bike 
with fenders back ASAP! I think I’d also have to pay for another clear coat 
to cover the stickers. I’m torn, I really like it clean but the decals 
would be cool too. Staying clean for now. The head tube badge with be on 
soon though. 

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 7:24:47 PM UTC-7 Michael Baquerizo wrote:

> worthy of some resurecttio decals no?
>
> On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 8:51:58 PM UTC-4 fra...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Thank you Richard!
>>
>> On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 5:41:11 PM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> One of a kind! Beautiful!
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Nov 5, 2022, at 8:25 PM, Ryan Frahm  wrote:
>>>
>>> [image: 68C8C83C-74E2-48D6-9B55-6AEB160F7DAC.jpeg][image: 
>>> D5CC92E0-9FE1-4F8A-934F-44DC1EE69755.jpeg]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Waiting for the frame saver to fully dry before finishing building it 
>>> back up. I had to replace the fork and it was bare, decided to go for 
>>> powder since it is my commuter and ride in plenty of weather. I am amazed 
>>> that he was able to do the details and accents so well, super happy with 
>>> how it turned out!
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/9fac389b-c568-4d4d-92d6-721741f6a14en%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>> [image: D5CC92E0-9FE1-4F8A-934F-44DC1EE69755.jpeg][image: 
>>> 68C8C83C-74E2-48D6-9B55-6AEB160F7DAC.jpeg]
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Using Your Rivendell Vs. Being Precious: A Spectrum

[Kim Hetzel]

Hi Jay,
Today, I just installed a double-legged kickstand on my Clem "L".  If I do 
not carry a heavy loads on the back end of my bike, like you did, I should 
be fine ?...regarding possible damage of separating the kickstand frame 
plate. 

Thank-you,
Kim Hetzel
Yelm, WA. 

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 6:39:40 PM UTC-7 Jay Lonner wrote:

> No damage that I could detect. The kickstand plate isn’t integral to the 
> frame, it’s just tacked on with some not-very-strong welds. I’m fairly 
> certain it could be removed with only superficial damage to the paint, but 
> then I’d have nothing to attach a fender to. 
>
> Jay Lonner
> Bellingham, WA
>
> Sent from my Atari 400
>
> On Nov 5, 2022, at 6:13 PM, Piaw Na  wrote:
>
> 
>
> No damage to the frame? Or did you have to get it repaired?
>
> On Sat, Nov 5, 2022 at 6:08 PM Jay Lonner  wrote:
>
> I don’t have a picture, just imagine the weld giving way and the plate 
>> separating from the seat stays. I was using a double-legged kickstand at 
>> the time and carrying a fair amount of cargo (see attached), and evidently 
>> the seesawing action was enough to pry things loose. It bummed me out for 
>> maybe half a day, but it’s been fine ever since, now I just use the 
>> kickstand plate as a fender attachment point.
>>
>> Jay Lonner
>> Bellingham, WA
>>
>> Sent from my Atari 400
>>
>> 
>>
>
>>
>> On Nov 5, 2022, at 5:54 PM, Piaw Na  wrote:
>>
>> 
>> What does a peeling mounting plate look like? Anyone have pictures? Not 
>> that I have kickstands on any of my bikes --- the one on the triplet got 
>> taken off ages ago... Just curious.
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 5, 2022 at 5:49 PM Richard Rose  wrote:
>>
>>> When I was talking to Will about getting a double legged kickstand he 
>>> warned me about the “peeling” mounting plate on the Clems. But, he thought 
>>> I would be ok they had beefed them up. So far so good.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Nov 5, 2022, at 7:44 PM, Jay Lonner  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> My Hunq is a daily driver and has the dings and scratches to show for 
>>> it. Probably the worst one is that the kickstand plate is pried partially 
>>> loose — no big deal, I just took the kickstand off and used the mounting 
>>> hardware to snug things back up. Worst case scenario for me is that someday 
>>> I treat myself to a new paint job and maybe some frame modifications to go 
>>> along with it. 
>>>
>>> Jay Lonner
>>> Bellingham, WA
>>>
>>> Sent from my Atari 400
>>>
>>> On Nov 5, 2022, at 4:28 PM, George Schick  wrote:
>>>
>>> I haven't read Grant's Blahg on this matter (the ancient OS on my 
>>> computer is so out of date that I can't load certain websites), but what he 
>>> has to say does not surprise me.  He's always been all about what he calls 
>>> "beausage," a term he coined to mean "beauty through usage," or IOW don't 
>>> sweat all of the nicks and scratches, "just ride" your bike and be happy.  
>>> The good news though is that there is a happy middle ground between the 
>>> complete over-the-top utility use of a bike (like Pam's), ignoring any wear 
>>> and tear versus a finicky protectiveness, hovering over the bike at all 
>>> times and worrying about theft, damage, etc.  And in my way of thinking 
>>> that means "just ride" it for all it's worth, but don't just throw it in 
>>> the corner until the next ride, but take good care of it.  Another way of 
>>> saying that might be, "... take good care of it and it will take good care 
>>> of you."
>>> This is no different than what one might do having just bought a nice 
>>> new automobile and drives it everywhere, but also maintains it, washes and 
>>> waxes it regularly, and is careful where they park it.
>>>
>>> On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 6:14:45 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 I love this topic! I had my custom designed to answer the question, 
 "What if I had all the qualities I love about Rivendells in a frame made 
 exactly for my size, weight and riding preferences?", and at first I was 
 super precious about it. Later I realized the whole point was to have a 
 perfect bike I could ride every day for everything and that's what I'm 
 doing.

 Of course I'm still absurdly touchy about scratching all that beautiful 
 Joe Bell paint but I don't let it stop me, I lock it up at Walmart, I fill 
 the bags with laundry and go to the laundromat. Because I want my bike to 
 do all the things bikes do!

 Joe Bernard 

 On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 3:15:18 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding 
 Ding! wrote:

> Did you read Grant’s Blahg? He covers a lot of ground, but most 
> notable to me was the Please Don’t Be Precious About Your Rivendell 
> section. In sum, Grant is saying it saddens him to think of people riding 
> beater bikes instead of their Rivendells to do daily, monotonous tasks - 
> because those tasks make up a lot of real life. If one “saves” their 
> Rivendell, it will not realize its po

[RBW] Re: Tires, tubes and Cliffhangers

[J.C. Bryant]

I've not mounted the Homage, but I've mounted a wide array of tires to 
Cliffhangers, both in 26 and 650b. Wire bead tires are fairly easy to 
mount, especially with the depth of the well and the amount of internal 
space. A bit harder time than I've had with other rims, but not so bad. 
Tight-fitting tubeless tires can be quite difficult to mount, especially 
when brand new, and especially with the use of a tube. I probably spent a 
solid hour mounting WTB Byways, broke at least one tire lever, and worried 
I was using so much force I was going to damage the rim, but it ended up 
working out. However, with these tighter fits, I've found them quite easy 
to set up tubeless.

I recently mounted some Race Kings and the fit was so tight they held air 
overnight before I added any sealant. I also find it easier to use a tube 
to get things seated. I mount the tire normally with a tube, check for 
proper seating, then leave it for a while pumped around max PSI, usually 
just trying to get the weirdness out where they were folded up in the 
packaging. Sometimes it takes a few days of riding. I then deflate and 
remove the tube while leaving one side seated. Once it's out, I mount the 
valve, push the side I opened back into the well, give it a strong blast of 
air, and it usually pops right back into place. I've found it easiest to 
add sealant through the valve (removable cores), versus pouring it into the 
unmounted tire.

With all this said, my experience tells me the Cliffhangers offer a solid, 
tight fit for all the tires I've mounted. If you can get the simworks tires 
to hold air without a tube, then I reckon you're halfway there. I'm not 
sure of the safety of running standard tires tubeless, but I've read plenty 
of stories about people's tubeless-compatible RH tires blowing off the rim, 
so I'd bet it's no more dangerous than that.

re: the Rene Herse/tube advice - they offer a lot of wisdom, but I try to 
take everything they say with a grain of salt, remembering their primary 
goal is to sell products. Despite their recommendations for their tires, I 
don't think you can go wrong buying the "right size" tubes for the right 
size tires. Sure, tubes do stretch, and it should work in theory, but I'm 
not counting grams and I don't quite see the benefit of undersizing tubes 
beyond that. The manufacturers have already done the work for me, spec'ing 
tubes for tires, so I'm not going out of my way to try and outsmart them.

Good luck with the tires! I hope you're able to get them mounted up.

-J.C.

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 7:04:59 PM UTC-5 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> Vague heading, sorry. Has anyone mounted Simworks Homage tires to 
> Cliffhanger rims? The Homage is not "tubeless compatible" though plenty of 
> folks have done it anyway. But I do not know about doing so with a 
> Cliffhanger?
> I am mounting mine with tubes, at least to start. But I ran into a 
> problem. I was on the Rene Herse site and they supply 26" Schwalbe tubes 
> for their 650B tires. They indicate they stretch to fit and do not even 
> offer 27.5 tubes. Well, I tried. With a 26" tube it was impossible to mount 
> the tire. After trying for about 40 minutes I tried it with a 27.5" tube - 
> mounted easily. Why would Rene Herse suggest such a thing? Why did I 
> believe them?
> Anyway, I am looking forward to giving these 55mm beauties a go.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Using Your Rivendell Vs. Being Precious: A Spectrum

[Jay Lonner]

Kim,I guess I’d put myself in the “once burned, twice shy” camp — I personally wouldn’t install a kickstand again, unless maybe the mounting plate was super bomber. That’s something you’ll have to assess for yourself. I keep meaning to order a Flickstand but haven’t gotten around to it, which goes to show that in my riding there’s no shortage of things to lean my bike against. Jay LonnerBellingham, WASent from my Atari 400On Nov 5, 2022, at 8:37 PM, Kim Hetzel  wrote:Hi Jay,Today, I just installed a double-legged kickstand on my Clem "L".  If I do not carry a heavy loads on the back end of my bike, like you did, I should be fine ?...regarding possible damage of separating the kickstand frame plate. Thank-you,Kim HetzelYelm, WA. On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 6:39:40 PM UTC-7 Jay Lonner wrote:No damage that I could detect. The kickstand plate isn’t integral to the frame, it’s just tacked on with some not-very-strong welds. I’m fairly certain it could be removed with only superficial damage to the paint, but then I’d have nothing to attach a fender to. Jay LonnerBellingham, WASent from my Atari 400On Nov 5, 2022, at 6:13 PM, Piaw Na  wrote:No damage to the frame? Or did you have to get it repaired?On Sat, Nov 5, 2022 at 6:08 PM Jay Lonner  wrote:I don’t have a picture, just imagine the weld giving way and the plate separating from the seat stays. I was using a double-legged kickstand at the time and carrying a fair amount of cargo (see attached), and evidently the seesawing action was enough to pry things loose. It bummed me out for maybe half a day, but it’s been fine ever since, now I just use the kickstand plate as a fender attachment point.Jay LonnerBellingham, WASent from my Atari 400On Nov 5, 2022, at 5:54 PM, Piaw Na  wrote:What does a peeling mounting plate look like? Anyone have pictures? Not that I have kickstands on any of my bikes --- the one on the triplet got taken off ages ago... Just curious.On Sat, Nov 5, 2022 at 5:49 PM Richard Rose  wrote:When I was talking to Will about getting a double legged kickstand he warned me about the “peeling” mounting plate on the Clems. But, he thought I would be ok they had beefed them up. So far so good.Sent from my iPhoneOn Nov 5, 2022, at 7:44 PM, Jay Lonner  wrote:My Hunq is a daily driver and has the dings and scratches to show for it. Probably the worst one is that the kickstand plate is pried partially loose — no big deal, I just took the kickstand off and used the mounting hardware to snug things back up. Worst case scenario for me is that someday I treat myself to a new paint job and maybe some frame modifications to go along with it. Jay LonnerBellingham, WASent from my Atari 400On Nov 5, 2022, at 4:28 PM, George Schick  wrote:I haven't read Grant's Blahg on this matter (the ancient OS on my computer is so out of date that I can't load certain websites), but what he has to say does not surprise me.  He's always been all about what he calls "beausage," a term he coined to mean "beauty through usage," or IOW don't sweat all of the nicks and scratches, "just ride" your bike and be happy.  The good news though is that there is a happy middle ground between the complete over-the-top utility use of a bike (like Pam's), ignoring any wear and tear versus a finicky protectiveness, hovering over the bike at all times and worrying about theft, damage, etc.  And in my way of thinking that means "just ride" it for all it's worth, but don't just throw it in the corner until the next ride, but take good care of it.  Another way of saying that might be, "... take good care of it and it will take good care of you."This is no different than what one might do having just bought a nice new automobile and drives it everywhere, but also maintains it, washes and waxes it regularly, and is careful where they park it.On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 6:14:45 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:I love this topic! I had my custom designed to answer the question, "What if I had all the qualities I love about Rivendells in a frame made exactly for my size, weight and riding preferences?",  and at first I was super precious about it. Later I realized the whole point was to have a perfect bike I could ride every day for everything and that's what I'm doing.Of course I'm still absurdly touchy about scratching all that beautiful Joe Bell paint but I don't let it stop me, I lock it up at Walmart, I fill the bags with laundry and go to the laundromat. Because I want my bike to do all the things bikes do!Joe Bernard On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 3:15:18 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:Did you read Grant’s Blahg? He covers a lot of ground, but most notable to me was the Please Don’t Be Precious About Your Rivendell section. In sum, Grant is saying it saddens him to think of people riding beater bikes instead of their Rivendells to do daily, monotonous tasks - because t

Re: [RBW] Re: Using Your Rivendell Vs. Being Precious: A Spectrum

[Kim Hetzel]

Thank-you, Jay.

Kim Hetzel. 

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 8:56:20 PM UTC-7 Jay Lonner wrote:

> Kim,
>
> I guess I’d put myself in the “once burned, twice shy” camp — I personally 
> wouldn’t install a kickstand again, unless maybe the mounting plate was 
> super bomber. That’s something you’ll have to assess for yourself. I keep 
> meaning to order a Flickstand but haven’t gotten around to it, which goes 
> to show that in my riding there’s no shortage of things to lean my bike 
> against. 
>
> Jay Lonner
> Bellingham, WA
>
> Sent from my Atari 400
>
> On Nov 5, 2022, at 8:37 PM, Kim Hetzel  wrote:
>
> 
>
> Hi Jay,
> Today, I just installed a double-legged kickstand on my Clem "L".  If I do 
> not carry a heavy loads on the back end of my bike, like you did, I should 
> be fine ?...regarding possible damage of separating the kickstand frame 
> plate. 
>
> Thank-you,
> Kim Hetzel
> Yelm, WA. 
>
> On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 6:39:40 PM UTC-7 Jay Lonner wrote:
>
>> No damage that I could detect. The kickstand plate isn’t integral to the 
>> frame, it’s just tacked on with some not-very-strong welds. I’m fairly 
>> certain it could be removed with only superficial damage to the paint, but 
>> then I’d have nothing to attach a fender to. 
>>
>> Jay Lonner
>> Bellingham, WA
>>
>> Sent from my Atari 400
>>
>> On Nov 5, 2022, at 6:13 PM, Piaw Na  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> No damage to the frame? Or did you have to get it repaired?
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 5, 2022 at 6:08 PM Jay Lonner  wrote:
>>
>> I don’t have a picture, just imagine the weld giving way and the plate 
>>> separating from the seat stays. I was using a double-legged kickstand at 
>>> the time and carrying a fair amount of cargo (see attached), and evidently 
>>> the seesawing action was enough to pry things loose. It bummed me out for 
>>> maybe half a day, but it’s been fine ever since, now I just use the 
>>> kickstand plate as a fender attachment point.
>>>
>>> Jay Lonner
>>> Bellingham, WA
>>>
>>> Sent from my Atari 400
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 5, 2022, at 5:54 PM, Piaw Na  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> What does a peeling mounting plate look like? Anyone have pictures? Not 
>>> that I have kickstands on any of my bikes --- the one on the triplet got 
>>> taken off ages ago... Just curious.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 5, 2022 at 5:49 PM Richard Rose  wrote:
>>>
 When I was talking to Will about getting a double legged kickstand he 
 warned me about the “peeling” mounting plate on the Clems. But, he thought 
 I would be ok they had beefed them up. So far so good.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Nov 5, 2022, at 7:44 PM, Jay Lonner  wrote:

 
 My Hunq is a daily driver and has the dings and scratches to show for 
 it. Probably the worst one is that the kickstand plate is pried partially 
 loose — no big deal, I just took the kickstand off and used the mounting 
 hardware to snug things back up. Worst case scenario for me is that 
 someday 
 I treat myself to a new paint job and maybe some frame modifications to go 
 along with it. 

 Jay Lonner
 Bellingham, WA

 Sent from my Atari 400

 On Nov 5, 2022, at 4:28 PM, George Schick  wrote:

 I haven't read Grant's Blahg on this matter (the ancient OS on my 
 computer is so out of date that I can't load certain websites), but what 
 he 
 has to say does not surprise me.  He's always been all about what he calls 
 "beausage," a term he coined to mean "beauty through usage," or IOW don't 
 sweat all of the nicks and scratches, "just ride" your bike and be happy.  
 The good news though is that there is a happy middle ground between the 
 complete over-the-top utility use of a bike (like Pam's), ignoring any 
 wear 
 and tear versus a finicky protectiveness, hovering over the bike at all 
 times and worrying about theft, damage, etc.  And in my way of thinking 
 that means "just ride" it for all it's worth, but don't just throw it in 
 the corner until the next ride, but take good care of it.  Another way of 
 saying that might be, "... take good care of it and it will take good care 
 of you."
 This is no different than what one might do having just bought a nice 
 new automobile and drives it everywhere, but also maintains it, washes and 
 waxes it regularly, and is careful where they park it.

 On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 6:14:45 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I love this topic! I had my custom designed to answer the question, 
> "What if I had all the qualities I love about Rivendells in a frame made 
> exactly for my size, weight and riding preferences?", and at first I was 
> super precious about it. Later I realized the whole point was to have a 
> perfect bike I could ride every day for everything and that's what I'm 
> doing.
>
> Of course I'm still absurdly touchy about scratching all that 
>>>

Re: [RBW] Powder coated Clem H!

[Matthew Williams]

Wow, that looks amazing! Your powder-coater did a great job. Very, very nice 
work. 

I love the color! I especially dig the cream in the RBW windows on the head 
tube. Nice touch!

Who is your powdercoater?



> On Nov 5, 2022, at 5:25 PM, Ryan Frahm  wrote:
> 
> <68C8C83C-74E2-48D6-9B55-6AEB160F7DAC.jpeg>
> 
> 
> Waiting for the frame saver to fully dry before finishing building it back 
> up. I had to replace the fork and it was bare, decided to go for powder since 
> it is my commuter and ride in plenty of weather. I am amazed that he was able 
> to do the details and accents so well, super happy with how it turned out!
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
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> .
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/9fac389b-c568-4d4d-92d6-721741f6a14en%40googlegroups.com
>  
> .
> <68C8C83C-74E2-48D6-9B55-6AEB160F7DAC.jpeg>

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[RBW] Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[Joe Bernard]

I thought I'd bring this over here instead of continuing to hammer Leah's 
'Using Your Rivendell' thread. 

Do we have any reports of plates separating from the stays from a 
single-leg kickstand, or are they all double-leggers? My experience with 
both is this: 

I used a double-legger on a Clem and could really load that bike up, I'm 
familiar with that rocking sensation of all the weight torquing on the 
stand. On my custom I use a single leg (the stock one that came on Clem 
completes a few years ago) and it's not very strong. It supports the bike 
fine and I can put a small shopping load in the bags, but as soon as I 
start to overdo it I can feel the bike getting wobbly like the stand wants 
to give out on me. My guess in this scenario is the single-legger is 
warning me before the plate gets too stressed, whilst the double will let 
you load all day until the plate gives up. 

Whaddyathink? 

Joe Bernard 

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