[RBW] Re: Hot Waxing Chains

[Michael Hechmer]

What an interesting conversation!  I had no idea when I originally asked. 
 Now I see that what Deacon does works for Deacon and what Doug, or 
Patrick, or Rich, or.. anyone else does probably works for them and not 
just because of physics but because of lifestyle and personality.

I have three hobbies - hand tool woodworking, bike riding, and tending a 
small garden.  All three of them have in common that they use tools as an 
extension of my body and soul.  It's important to me that the tools work 
seamlessly with my body.  My woodworking tool collection includes some that 
are a hundred years old, some that are forty and some that are brand new, 
but each one is a joy to hold and use.  I maintain them meticulously.  Same 
goes for my bicycles.  I want it to run quietly, respond predictably and 
shift perfectly, every time. That's why I ride Rivendells.  I run  a 9 
speed friction set up and find this works great if I start with high 
quality parts and keep them in good condition.  I'm also constitutionally 
opposed to a throw away world.  (I once brought a twenty five year old 
microwave into a repair shop, only to be greeted with gales of laughter)  I 
recently brought  a Milwaukee drill into a shop to get the switch replaced. 
 The service man took one look at it and said, "You've had this awhile 
haven't you."  and I thought OMG, I've become my father!  I run ultegra 
cassettes, connex chains and Sugino's best rings,  White's or TAs.  Letting 
them wear out prematurely is not a good option.

I appreciate all the feedback.  Thank you all.  I think I'm going to give 
Squirt a try.  I've been looking at sonic cleaners on line.  Everyone I 
looked at in the $75 range seemed to have about a 15% early failure rate. 
 The Molten site sells one for $139 plus up to $25 for shipping.  Ouch. 
 Maybe I'll give more traditional cleaning methods a deeper try as a prep 
for wax.

Doug reminds me that on a sticky hot day,  going down into the cool of the 
basement and cleaning bike parts isn't all bad.

Michael

On Friday, May 29, 2020 at 11:43:15 PM UTC-4, dougP wrote:
>
> *"So the real issue is, how much of my life do I want to give up trying to 
> extend the life of chainrings?*
>
> Michael:
>
> You've hit on the core question.  There are so many different situations 
> that it's hard to generalize.  There is no optimal solution for all 
> conditions.  The questions for each of us should be:
>
> 1.  How long do I expect drivetrain parts to last?  If you ride 2,000 
> miles per year, and get a year out of a chain & cassette, and a couple of 
> years out of chainrings, then you may want to be more diligent about 
> cleaning & lubrication, esp. if it's a big hit money-wise.  OTH, if you get 
> many years out of your drive train and / or the financial incentive is low, 
> you can be more casual.  The occasional spritz with whatever your LBS is 
> selling will work.
>
> 2.  How much trouble & effort do I want to expend on this to optimize 
> drive train life?  If it's a satisfying chore you don't mind doing, then 
> some combo of thorough cleaning & careful lubrication is for you.  Everyone 
> needs a hobby.  OTH, if the whole thing is a huge PITA that you put off 
> doing, then the casual spritz works.
>
>  Related considerations:  
>
> 3.   Cost of components:  7-8-9 speed cassettes are under $30; chains 
> under $20.  Decent chainrings are $25.  What's the real value of trying to 
> squeeze a bit of extra life out these?  Are you a student on a tight budget 
> or retired with plenty of cash?  OTH, if you're into the latest drivetrain 
> components such as 11 & 12 speed, now you're looking at a whole lot more 
> money.  
>
> 4.  Riding mileage: Does each bike get perhaps 1,000 miles per year or 
> 10,000 miles?  Lower mileage suggests more casual care may work.  Higher 
> mileage requires more effort (either time or money) to keep things ticking 
> over properly.  
>
> 5.  Climate: If you're in a dry, clean climate, you get more miles out of 
> a lube job.  However, wet and / or dusty or dirty environments are tough on 
> chains et al.  E..g., I'm in a warm, dry, dust free climate.  What works in 
> my climate would be a disaster for me in Deacon Patrick's climate.  Wax 
> doesn't like wet conditions.  
>
> Hope this helps the evaluation process.  
>
> dougP
>
>
>
> On Friday, May 29, 2020 at 4:30:40 PM UTC-7, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>>
>> Deacon, how good to connect with you again, even when I think you are 
>> wrong!  At one level you are right.  If we are discussing energy lost to 
>> friction in the drivetrain then nothing makes a difference, wax, chain oil, 
>> heavy or light oil or even no lube at all.  Under all conditions the energy 
>> loss is vanishingly small.   But that's not the issue.   The purpose of any 
>> lube is either to fill the space between two metal parts and thereby 
>> prevent dirt from entering and prematurely wearing those parts out, and/ or 
>> the lubricant can flush out microscopic

[RBW] Re: FS: Nitto Mark's and R-14, Ortlieb Panniers Set, Saddle, Restivus

[Tim Bantham]

A gentle nudge to see if there is any interest in the Ortieb panniers or 
Restivus before I post for sale elsewhere. Thanks for looking! 

Tim

On Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 6:07:31 AM UTC-4, Tim Bantham wrote:
>
> Both racks sold as well as the saddle. The panniers and restivus saddle 
> loop are still available. 
>
> On Monday, May 25, 2020 at 5:31:09 PM UTC-4, Tim Bantham wrote:
>>
>> Sale pending on Mark's and WTB saddle. 
>>
>> On Monday, May 25, 2020 at 4:35:05 PM UTC-4, Tim Bantham wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello Riv Friends, 
>>>
>>> Looking to move a few items that I am no longer using. 
>>>
>>> Nitto Mark's Rack M1 - $90 Shipped Lower 48
>>>
>>> Nitto R14 Rear Rack - $100 Shipped Lower 48
>>>
>>> Hobo Pieces Restivus Saddle Loops - $40 shipped Lower 48
>>>
>>> WTB SST Like new. These are a nice alternative to a leather saddle if 
>>> this is what you prefer. The WTB SST is a classic that is no longer made. 
>>> Like new condition $25 shipped Lower 48
>>>
>>> Ortleib Bike Packer Plus Rear Panniers - $125 Pair plus actual shipping 
>>> costs
>>>
>>> Ortleib Sport Packer Plus Front Panniers - $100 Pair plus actual 
>>> shipping costs. 
>>>
>>> Entire pannier set front and rear $200 plus shipping. 
>>>
>>> The Panniers are really nice. These are the PLUS which is the cordura 
>>> material with drawstring closure and map pockets on the rear. A nice 
>>> upgrade from the Classic. Very good condition used only for one week long 
>>> trip and a couple of overnighters last year. Exceptionally waterproof, time 
>>> tested, and proven the world over. 
>>>
>>> PayPal preferred. With prices net to me. Thanks for looking!
>>>
>>> See below link for photos. 
>>>
>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/5K8hK9NSo91bfXLp8
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] FS: 57 Grilver Roadini f/f/hs + extras - $700 shipped

[Erik Wright]

Bump & price drop, $650 shipped

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[RBW] Re: BMX Nostalgia

[masmojo]

Yes, being young helps, but typically on most BMX bikes (especially 20"ers of 
the day) the seat was sort of an appendage that didn't get used much. Even 
today they keep they seat really low. Nice if you're young and you've got good 
knees. 
The gearing is pretty low & ALL climbs are attacked out of the saddle. Today 
they have what's called "pivot" saddles and posts short posts that are not more 
than 10 inches long (probably more like 8!) So they can't raise the seat at 
all! 
BMX is definitely a different animal so different I really find it amusing. Low 
Q factor crank? What's that? Metric is creeping in, but was SAE for many years; 
I always had 2 sets of tools. 

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[RBW] FS: VBC crankset, WI / Son Wheelset

[scott minor]

White Industries VBC crankset w 175mm arms, 46/28 chainrings.  Less than 1k mi  
$250 shipped

Handbuilt wheelset:  Son widebody gen hub / White industries T11 rear hub w 
Shimano 12-32 9 sp cassette / 36h Velocity A23 rims.  They roll straight and 
true.  Also comes with used Compass Barlow pass tires (38mm).  $525 + shipping 
via bikeflights.  

psco...@gmail.com 

-Scott 

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[RBW] Re: Locking Up your Riv

[masmojo]

I have used a variety of locks over the years, but now pretty much use the 
Bordo almost exclusively for locking a bike of any value for any time at all. 
As mentioned it is reasonably difficult to defeat, it folds up compactly, has a 
carrier that can be velcro to your bike and isn't too awfully heavy.
When I was commuting to work I  would leave a burly U lock locked to the stand 
so I didn't have to tote it back and forth.
For quick locking lately I've been using a super mini U-lock by Odessey. It's 
only big enough to get around a frame tube a stair rail or some other 2" pipe, 
but it's made out of aluminum and it's super light. Likely quickly defeated 
with bolt cutters, but for a quick stop it'll deter all but the more 
sophisticated crooks.
Typically my Rivendells and other super nice bikes are not left in "risky" 
locations.

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[RBW] FS: VBC crankset, WI / Son Wheelset

[scott minor]

Crankset is sold! 

Wheels still available.  

thanks!  -Scott 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Locking Up your Riv

[ANDREW ERMAN]

I use an Abus Bordo Granite (heavy but very well rated) to go thru the
frame and rear wheel and whatever I am locking the bike to, and a Tigr Lock
to lock the front wheel to my frame.  Both locks mount to my frame.  I also
tend toward being over insured.

On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 7:36 AM masmojo  wrote:

> I have used a variety of locks over the years, but now pretty much use the
> Bordo almost exclusively for locking a bike of any value for any time at
> all. As mentioned it is reasonably difficult to defeat, it folds up
> compactly, has a carrier that can be velcro to your bike and isn't too
> awfully heavy.
> When I was commuting to work I  would leave a burly U lock locked to the
> stand so I didn't have to tote it back and forth.
> For quick locking lately I've been using a super mini U-lock by Odessey.
> It's only big enough to get around a frame tube a stair rail or some other
> 2" pipe, but it's made out of aluminum and it's super light. Likely quickly
> defeated with bolt cutters, but for a quick stop it'll deter all but the
> more sophisticated crooks.
> Typically my Rivendells and other super nice bikes are not left in "risky"
> locations.
>
> --
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> .
>

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[RBW] Re: Hot Waxing Chains

[tuolumne bikes]

For cleaning, I mostly hose off the drivetrain after a dusty ride, bounce the 
bike a few times and dry in the sun, and then wipe down the chain. Sometimes I 
over lube and wipe. 

When it's time to do a rare major cleaning, the chain goes in an old wide mouth 
nalgene with Dawn dish soap and boiling water. I wrap an old bath towel around 
it and shake the hell out of it. The towel is absolutely mandatory for opening 
the nalgene since it usually spurts like a hot radiator. It takes a couple wash 
and rinse cycles. Hang to dry before installing and lubing. Nalgene was (and 
still is) a lab equipment company before it became an outdoor brand; their hard 
bottles handle boiling water without issues.

There's a theory that this kind of cleaning removes lube from deep inside the 
chain and that relubing the chain can't penetrate to replace it. I figure if 
hot water and detergent got in there, then super slippery chain lube probably 
can too. I over lube and wipe.

The notion that chains need to be really really clean is silly to me given how 
much work that would take. I run 3 x 6/7/8 speeds, so chains are cheap, and 
steel is recyclable. I also really like steel chainrings. Old Sugino VP cranks 
from MTBeaters often have great steel 110/74 BCD rings. What a sensible place 
to add weight to your bike.

Carl

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[RBW] FS: VBC crankset, WI / Son Wheelset

[Ray Varella]

I sent you a pm on the wheels, perhaps it went to spam

Ray

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[RBW] Re: Hot Waxing Chains

[Garth]

  Having done hot wax, Squirt(water based) and Clean Ride(petrol based) 
bottled waxes ... it always bugged me that I had to remove the factory lube 
in order to use the wax. I still had to clean the chain, sigh. I never want 
to clean another chain in my life, ever, period !  I thought about when I 
was a teen, what lube did I use back then ? Whatever oil my Dad has in his 
squirt can(which is very cool and I still have today) I suppose. Did I ever 
clean chains ? Nope . Did the parts ever wear out, make noises or any of 
that ? Hmm . Sometime later, I must have read in a bike forum about using 
air tool oil for a chain lube and how it didn't attract dirt. It's not 
expensive either, Harbor Freight's 16 oz. bottle is $4. Okay, I'm in !  I 
also switched to KMC chains, the x.9.93 for my Bombadil that I had a new 
drivetrain for. The KMC factory lube is quite excellent, I must have gotten 
250+ miles(wipe the chain periodically) on it before relubing with air tool 
oil. No chain cleaning, only wiping the chain really good, then apply one 
drop per link at a time. Wipe off excess, let it sit overnight then wipe 
good again the next day. To really get the excess off it helps to spin the 
drivetrain good, either in a stand or just lift the rear wheel. This 
minimizes any spray on the rims, but I still get some the first ride as 
frankly it doesn't bother me.  I have no idea what's in AT oil or why or 
how, but it doesn't collect dust and dirt, at least where I ride. I wipe 
off after every ride or 2, say 25-50 miles. Reapplications are maybe every 
250 miles or so, I think as that's a guesstimate. After over 1000k miles 
all is well, the chain still checks Yay and no signs of other wear. I'm 
happy with it !  So Michael if you want to be free of chain cleaning 
altogether give AT oil a try, at least on one bike as an experiment for 
yourself and see it how it goes. 

That's my story and I'm sticking to it  ... hee hee hee. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Hot Waxing Chains

[Patrick Moore]

Michael: FWIW, you don't need ultrasonic cleaning for Molten Wax success;
just do an initial bath in mineral spirits with brush, and wash in hot
water with detergent, rinse, and let dry.

I find your attitude towards tools and instruments very interesting and
appealing; that is how I look at my bikes, and one reason I am so
particular about how they are set up.

On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 5:02 AM Michael Hechmer  wrote:

> What an interesting conversation!  I had no idea when I originally asked.
> Now I see that what Deacon does works for Deacon and what Doug, or Patrick,
> or Rich, or.. anyone else does probably works for them and not just
> because of physics but because of lifestyle and personality.
>
> I have three hobbies - hand tool woodworking, bike riding, and tending a
> small garden.  All three of them have in common that they use tools as an
> extension of my body and soul.  It's important to me that the tools work
> seamlessly with my body.  My woodworking tool collection includes some that
> are a hundred years old, some that are forty and some that are brand new,
> but each one is a joy to hold and use.  I maintain them meticulously.  Same
> goes for my bicycles.  I want it to run quietly, respond predictably and
> shift perfectly, every time. That's why I ride Rivendells.  I run  a 9
> speed friction set up and find this works great if I start with high
> quality parts and keep them in good condition.  I'm also constitutionally
> opposed to a throw away world.  (I once brought a twenty five year old
> microwave into a repair shop, only to be greeted with gales of laughter)  I
> recently brought  a Milwaukee drill into a shop to get the switch
> replaced.  The service man took one look at it and said, "You've had this
> awhile haven't you."  and I thought OMG, I've become my father!  I run
> ultegra cassettes, connex chains and Sugino's best rings,  White's or TAs.
> Letting them wear out prematurely is not a good option.
>
> I appreciate all the feedback.  Thank you all.  I think I'm going to give
> Squirt a try.  I've been looking at sonic cleaners on line.  Everyone I
> looked at in the $75 range seemed to have about a 15% early failure rate.
> The Molten site sells one for $139 plus up to $25 for shipping.  Ouch.
> Maybe I'll give more traditional cleaning methods a deeper try as a prep
> for wax.
>
> Doug reminds me that on a sticky hot day,  going down into the cool of the
> basement and cleaning bike parts isn't all bad.
>
> Michael
>
> On Friday, May 29, 2020 at 11:43:15 PM UTC-4, dougP wrote:
>>
>> *"So the real issue is, how much of my life do I want to give up trying
>> to extend the life of chainrings?*
>>
>> Michael:
>>
>> You've hit on the core question.  There are so many different situations
>> that it's hard to generalize.  There is no optimal solution for all
>> conditions.  The questions for each of us should be:
>>
>> 1.  How long do I expect drivetrain parts to last?  If you ride 2,000
>> miles per year, and get a year out of a chain & cassette, and a couple of
>> years out of chainrings, then you may want to be more diligent about
>> cleaning & lubrication, esp. if it's a big hit money-wise.  OTH, if you get
>> many years out of your drive train and / or the financial incentive is low,
>> you can be more casual.  The occasional spritz with whatever your LBS is
>> selling will work.
>>
>> 2.  How much trouble & effort do I want to expend on this to optimize
>> drive train life?  If it's a satisfying chore you don't mind doing, then
>> some combo of thorough cleaning & careful lubrication is for you.  Everyone
>> needs a hobby.  OTH, if the whole thing is a huge PITA that you put off
>> doing, then the casual spritz works.
>>
>>  Related considerations:
>>
>> 3.   Cost of components:  7-8-9 speed cassettes are under $30; chains
>> under $20.  Decent chainrings are $25.  What's the real value of trying to
>> squeeze a bit of extra life out these?  Are you a student on a tight budget
>> or retired with plenty of cash?  OTH, if you're into the latest drivetrain
>> components such as 11 & 12 speed, now you're looking at a whole lot more
>> money.
>>
>> 4.  Riding mileage: Does each bike get perhaps 1,000 miles per year or
>> 10,000 miles?  Lower mileage suggests more casual care may work.  Higher
>> mileage requires more effort (either time or money) to keep things ticking
>> over properly.
>>
>> 5.  Climate: If you're in a dry, clean climate, you get more miles out of
>> a lube job.  However, wet and / or dusty or dirty environments are tough on
>> chains et al.  E..g., I'm in a warm, dry, dust free climate.  What works in
>> my climate would be a disaster for me in Deacon Patrick's climate.  Wax
>> doesn't like wet conditions.
>>
>> Hope this helps the evaluation process.
>>
>> dougP
>>
>>
>>
>> On Friday, May 29, 2020 at 4:30:40 PM UTC-7, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>>>
>>> Deacon, how good to connect with you again, even when I think you are
>>> wrong!  At one level you are ri

[RBW] Re: FS 59cm black Clementine frame, fork, Tange headset, seatpost and bottom bracket

[Rob H.]

If you tried to message me, it's quite possible it got deleted from my Spam 
folder. Please resend and I won't be as hasty this time.

On Friday, May 29, 2020 at 11:16:37 PM UTC-7, Rob H. wrote:
>
> It's time to let this go to someone who will ride it. I built her up about 
> 5 years ago and commuted on it for a bit, but I found it a tad too big for 
> me (I'm a 85 pbh). Long chainstays made for a super comfy ride.
>
> This is the frame that takes the 700c wheels. Cantilever/V-brake posts. 
> The seatpost size is not 27.2 (I believe it might be 29.8) so I'm including 
> it. Pictures to follow. 
>
> $600. I can leave the bottom bracket installed at no additonal cost. Will 
> report on spindle length shortly.
>
> Strong preference given to someone in the SF Bay Area for pickup/delivery
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Hot Waxing Chains

[Patrick Moore]

I should be clear: For success with MSW, clean the chain thoroughly for the
first application; thereafter, no need to clean, just dunk it in and let
soak.

On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 11:00 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Michael: FWIW, you don't need ultrasonic cleaning for Molten Wax success;
> just do an initial bath in mineral spirits with brush, and wash in hot
> water with detergent, rinse, and let dry.
>
> I find your attitude towards tools and instruments very interesting and
> appealing; that is how I look at my bikes, and one reason I am so
> particular about how they are set up.
>
> On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 5:02 AM Michael Hechmer 
> wrote:
>
>> What an interesting conversation!  I had no idea when I originally
>> asked.  Now I see that what Deacon does works for Deacon and what Doug, or
>> Patrick, or Rich, or.. anyone else does probably works for them and not
>> just because of physics but because of lifestyle and personality.
>>
>> I have three hobbies - hand tool woodworking, bike riding, and tending a
>> small garden.  All three of them have in common that they use tools as an
>> extension of my body and soul.  It's important to me that the tools work
>> seamlessly with my body.  My woodworking tool collection includes some that
>> are a hundred years old, some that are forty and some that are brand new,
>> but each one is a joy to hold and use.  I maintain them meticulously.  Same
>> goes for my bicycles.  I want it to run quietly, respond predictably and
>> shift perfectly, every time. That's why I ride Rivendells.  I run  a 9
>> speed friction set up and find this works great if I start with high
>> quality parts and keep them in good condition.  I'm also constitutionally
>> opposed to a throw away world.  (I once brought a twenty five year old
>> microwave into a repair shop, only to be greeted with gales of laughter)  I
>> recently brought  a Milwaukee drill into a shop to get the switch
>> replaced.  The service man took one look at it and said, "You've had this
>> awhile haven't you."  and I thought OMG, I've become my father!  I run
>> ultegra cassettes, connex chains and Sugino's best rings,  White's or TAs.
>> Letting them wear out prematurely is not a good option.
>>
>> I appreciate all the feedback.  Thank you all.  I think I'm going to give
>> Squirt a try.  I've been looking at sonic cleaners on line.  Everyone I
>> looked at in the $75 range seemed to have about a 15% early failure rate.
>> The Molten site sells one for $139 plus up to $25 for shipping.  Ouch.
>> Maybe I'll give more traditional cleaning methods a deeper try as a prep
>> for wax.
>>
>> Doug reminds me that on a sticky hot day,  going down into the cool of
>> the basement and cleaning bike parts isn't all bad.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> On Friday, May 29, 2020 at 11:43:15 PM UTC-4, dougP wrote:
>>>
>>> *"So the real issue is, how much of my life do I want to give up trying
>>> to extend the life of chainrings?*
>>>
>>> Michael:
>>>
>>> You've hit on the core question.  There are so many different situations
>>> that it's hard to generalize.  There is no optimal solution for all
>>> conditions.  The questions for each of us should be:
>>>
>>> 1.  How long do I expect drivetrain parts to last?  If you ride 2,000
>>> miles per year, and get a year out of a chain & cassette, and a couple of
>>> years out of chainrings, then you may want to be more diligent about
>>> cleaning & lubrication, esp. if it's a big hit money-wise.  OTH, if you get
>>> many years out of your drive train and / or the financial incentive is low,
>>> you can be more casual.  The occasional spritz with whatever your LBS is
>>> selling will work.
>>>
>>> 2.  How much trouble & effort do I want to expend on this to optimize
>>> drive train life?  If it's a satisfying chore you don't mind doing, then
>>> some combo of thorough cleaning & careful lubrication is for you.  Everyone
>>> needs a hobby.  OTH, if the whole thing is a huge PITA that you put off
>>> doing, then the casual spritz works.
>>>
>>>  Related considerations:
>>>
>>> 3.   Cost of components:  7-8-9 speed cassettes are under $30; chains
>>> under $20.  Decent chainrings are $25.  What's the real value of trying to
>>> squeeze a bit of extra life out these?  Are you a student on a tight budget
>>> or retired with plenty of cash?  OTH, if you're into the latest drivetrain
>>> components such as 11 & 12 speed, now you're looking at a whole lot more
>>> money.
>>>
>>> 4.  Riding mileage: Does each bike get perhaps 1,000 miles per year or
>>> 10,000 miles?  Lower mileage suggests more casual care may work.  Higher
>>> mileage requires more effort (either time or money) to keep things ticking
>>> over properly.
>>>
>>> 5.  Climate: If you're in a dry, clean climate, you get more miles out
>>> of a lube job.  However, wet and / or dusty or dirty environments are tough
>>> on chains et al.  E..g., I'm in a warm, dry, dust free climate.  What works
>>> in my climate would be a disaster for me in Deac

Re: [RBW] Re: FS: Nitto Mark's and R-14, Ortlieb Panniers Set, Saddle, Restivus

[Patrick Moore]

Tim: 2 questions.

1. The Restivus bag attachment: When you bolt it to the rails of a
modern saddle like a Flite, with rails that slant up in back at an
obtuse angle from the horizontal clamped part -- ie, not like those of
the B 17 which at the rear are almost vertical --  do the loops point
downward or horizontally rearward?

2. On the Packer Pluses the photos show what might look like scuffing
or fading; or the light areas might be sunlight. Is the color uniform
throughout?

Thanks.

On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 6:26 AM Tim Bantham  wrote:
>
> A gentle nudge to see if there is any interest in the Ortieb panniers or 
> Restivus before I post for sale elsewhere. Thanks for looking!
>
> Tim
>
> On Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 6:07:31 AM UTC-4, Tim Bantham wrote:
>>
>> Both racks sold as well as the saddle. The panniers and restivus saddle loop 
>> are still available.
>>
>> On Monday, May 25, 2020 at 5:31:09 PM UTC-4, Tim Bantham wrote:
>>>
>>> Sale pending on Mark's and WTB saddle.
>>>
>>> On Monday, May 25, 2020 at 4:35:05 PM UTC-4, Tim Bantham wrote:

 Hello Riv Friends,

 Looking to move a few items that I am no longer using.

 Nitto Mark's Rack M1 - $90 Shipped Lower 48

 Nitto R14 Rear Rack - $100 Shipped Lower 48

 Hobo Pieces Restivus Saddle Loops - $40 shipped Lower 48

 WTB SST Like new. These are a nice alternative to a leather saddle if this 
 is what you prefer. The WTB SST is a classic that is no longer made. Like 
 new condition $25 shipped Lower 48

 Ortleib Bike Packer Plus Rear Panniers - $125 Pair plus actual shipping 
 costs

 Ortleib Sport Packer Plus Front Panniers - $100 Pair plus actual shipping 
 costs.

 Entire pannier set front and rear $200 plus shipping.

 The Panniers are really nice. These are the PLUS which is the cordura 
 material with drawstring closure and map pockets on the rear. A nice 
 upgrade from the Classic. Very good condition used only for one week long 
 trip and a couple of overnighters last year. Exceptionally waterproof, 
 time tested, and proven the world over.

 PayPal preferred. With prices net to me. Thanks for looking!

 See below link for photos.

 https://photos.app.goo.gl/5K8hK9NSo91bfXLp8






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Re: [RBW] Hot Waxing Chains

[Robert Tilley]

  I have recently switched over to NFS lube after years of using Boeshield. I am finding that the NFS lasts much longer and needs to be reapplied less frequently. It also keeps the drivetrain very quiet and the chain stays clean. I was skeptical that 12 drops world be enough to work but it does.http://nixfrixshun.com/nixfrixshun-ultimate-bicycle-chainlube/   I have tried most of the dry lubes out there and always found that the wax they use collected on the cogs and I would periodically need to remove the cassette and give it a good cleaning. I have always been curious about doing a proper wax job on my chains and may do it at some point but NFS works so well for me I don't have the motivation to try right now.Robert TilleySan Diego, CA  Sent from my BlackBerry - the most secure mobile device   From: mhech...@gmail.comSent: May 28, 2020 4:18 PMTo: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.comReply-to: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.comSubject: [RBW] Hot Waxing Chains  Greetings, one and all.  It has been a long time, at least a few years, since my last post and I am just assuming my membership is still active.At 75+, I still ride regularly, although not the distances I used to.  I live in a small town in far northern VT, which has mostly dirt roads. I just ride; I don't desire new stuff nor do anything heroic worth writing about.  I have a Ramboulliet, a Trek 620, An early Saluki (my goto ride), and a custom Bilenky touring tandem.  My wife rides a Betty Foy and my daughter a Cheviot.   All but the Trek have fenders but that's still a lot of chains out on dirty roads and a lot of messy time cleaning them.Can you teach an old dog new tricks?  Well maybe.   I clean the chains, rings and cogs with mineral spirits and citrosol.  I use a standard oil lube and wipe them down as best I can.  The process of wiping down the chains inevitably contaminates the rings and cogs with oil and the first ride bleeds oil from the inside to the outside of the chain.  The oil collects dirt, which wears down rings and cogs.  (I just ordered three new rings today, so I'm focused).  Every time I go through this process of cleaning 9 chains, I watch a youtube video on chain waxing but get put off by the initial effort and purchase of a crock pot, ultrasonic cleaner, etc; and wonder if it would really improve this process ; keep the chain cleaner and reduce wear?Your experience, appreciated.Michael



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[RBW] FS: Ergon, Jones, Wolf Tooth and Continental

[Bruce Smitham]

For sale are new bike items in case you're interested. Prices do not 
include shipping CONUS or free local pick up in San Diego.

Ergon GS1-L black $20

Jeff Jones saddle take off $20

Wolf Tooth B-Rad System Pump Bag $25

Continental Race 28 (700c X 25-32) 42mm presta valves inner tubes X 2  $5 
each or $8 for both

Thanks, Bruce

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[RBW] Re: FS: Silver crankset

[Doug Hansford]

What is the crank length?
Doug

On Saturday, May 30, 2020 at 1:20:57 PM UTC-4, Jeffrey B wrote:
>
> Silver crankset as shown. Some normal scratching from use but overall 
> great shape. This was taken from my wife’s Clem - converting to 1x with her 
> ride. Rings are 38/24, but I also have a 34 chainring and smaller rivendell 
> guard I can install - buyer preference. Please send PM for interest. 
>
> $165 shipped

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[RBW] Re: FS: Silver crankset

[Jeffrey B]

Crank length is 173

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Re: [RBW] Nitto wire guard

[maxcr]

Patrick, you're right - that's why I couldn't find the thread! Glad you 
found it at Analog.

Cheers,

Max but not the Max who pointed you at it.

On Friday, May 29, 2020 at 10:28:14 PM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Max: Perhaps that was I on the boblist? I think it was you who pointed the 
> device out to me; again, thanks. As it is, I found one at Analog Cycles.
>
> If someone on *this* list asked, or if you are a different Max, then I 
> apologize.
>
> (And my longer Carradice straps arrived today from Nelson, England.)
>
> On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 6:10 PM maxcr > 
> wrote:
>
>> Someone was looking for a wire guard the other day (I can't find the 
>> thread), but they were sold out. Looks like there's a couple available now: 
>> https://www.rivbike.com/products/nitto-wire-guard-20189?variant=23336750721
>> Pricey, but if you need it, they work.
>> Max
>>
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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[RBW] Center pull/Herse Brake Help

[Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles]

Hi All!

Hoping you can help me with your center pull knowledge

Before I start, I tried Jan Heine/RH  but I think they are on light staff 
and I haven't heard back.


I've got a pair of direct-mount Herse center pulls on my Homer that I 
cannot, for the life of me, get the squeal out (rear only).  



Here's some things that I've done to try and eliminate the squeal and some 
general info.

1. There was some significant deflection of the stay under hard braking so 
I had a friend machine a brake booster. Now there is zero deflection. No 
change.

2.  I get squeal pretty much as soon as the pads touch the rim under any 
amount of brake pressure.  (Also, off the bike, using the brake lever 
engaging the brake and pushing the bike forward under very light pressure).

3.  Interestingly if I squeeze the pads by hand and move the bike forward 
in the same fashion, no squeal.

4. I must be dampening some kind of vibration in doing so?

5. Toe-in has been increased to the point it cannot be possibly be the 
issue? both pads are hitting at the exact same time, both pads are all the 
way "back" in the holder (closest to the arm)

6. I've taken a file to the brake pads to remove any contamination (any 
time I try something new I hit the pads with a file to eliminate them as a 
culprit)

7. I've cleaned the rims with alcohol (after every iteration of 
troubleshooting)

8. I've burnished the rims even though they are brand new Velocity Dyads 
(followed by righteous cleaning)  I've done this at several levels of 
"intensity"  


Anyone have any tips/tricks I can try?  

I'd hate to use a different pad because the Herse pads/holders are so 
beautiful but that's probably next on my list.

I haven't changed the straddle cable length or experimented with that yet.


Thank you so much!!!  This will make my month if I/we can figure this out...


Cheers,

Alex in Rochester, NY




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Re: [RBW] Hot Waxing Chains

[Patrick Moore]

If others can compare NFS with Molten Speed Wax on sandy terrain from
personal experience, I'd very much like to hear from them.

Patrick Moore, who is nonetheless pretty happy with MSW.

On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 11:56 AM Robert Tilley  wrote:

> I have recently switched over to NFS lube after years of using Boeshield.
> I am finding that the NFS lasts much longer and needs to be reapplied less
> frequently. It also keeps the drivetrain very quiet and the chain stays
> clean. I was skeptical that 12 drops world be enough to work but it does.
>
> http://nixfrixshun.com/nixfrixshun-ultimate-bicycle-chainlube/
>
> I have tried most of the dry lubes out there and always found that the wax
> they use collected on the cogs and I would periodically need to remove the
> cassette and give it a good cleaning. I have always been curious about
> doing a proper wax job on my chains and may do it at some point but NFS
> works so well for me I don't have the motivation to try right now.
>
> Robert Tilley
> San Diego, CA
>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Silver crankset

[Jeffrey B]

Sold

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[RBW] WTB: Sugino Left Side Crankarm 170mm

['Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I saw that someone was selling one of these in 175mm, which is unfortunately 
too long to match the 170mm drive side arm that I already have. Anybody got a 
170mm they don’t need?

This is for the Sugino crankset that came as OEM on the original Quickbeams.

--Eric Norris
campyonly...@me.com
www.campyonly.com
campyonlyguy.blogspot.com

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Re: [RBW] Nitto wire guard

[Max S]

Ha! I was the one that pointed to the device, only because I was hoping to 
order one from Riv a week ago when placing an order for other things. Alas they 
didn’t have it in stock, and I - unexpectedly - was able to source one locally. 

Max “hurrah for little wires bent in intricate ways” in A2 

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[RBW] WTB quickbeam or simple one

[Andrew Huston]

I’ll add to this a 56 surly steamroller as another option. 

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[RBW] WTB quickbeam or simple one

[Carla Waugh]

I'll add Handsome Fredward and I understand it's not a Riv.  I have a ton of 
fun on mine. You can choose your color as well. I have never seen a QB or SO 
because I live in Ok. 

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Re: [RBW] WTB quickbeam or simple one

[Eric Daume]

I would say the Cross Check is more comparable to the QB. The Steamroller
has quite a bit steeper geo.

Eric

On Saturday, May 30, 2020, Andrew Huston 
wrote:

> I’ll add to this a 56 surly steamroller as another option.
>
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[RBW] Center pull/Herse Brake Help

[Jeremy Till]

You mention pad holders so I assume the brake shoes are of the type with a 
replaceable pad. I'd try one piece shoes as the next experiment. I've wondered 
if pads of that type not being fully seated in their holders could be a source 
of vibration or resonance that contributes to squealing. I've had a couple of 
instances of brakes with such shoes squealing after pad replacement that was 
fixed by switching to a one piece pad. Of course, you could try to better seat 
the pads, but sometimes it's not trivial to get the pads to fully seat and 
aside from aesthetics I see little advantage to them, so I tend to just go for 
the one piece shoes. I find I often need to readjust the shoe's angle and 
position over the life of the pad or when replacing them anyways.

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento CA

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Re: [RBW] WTB quickbeam or simple one

[Andrew Huston]

I’ve considered both the Fredward and cross check. I’m concerned the rides will 
be uninspiring. Maybe I’m wrong. Carla, what’s your experience? Any cross check 
lovers want to chime in?

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Re: [RBW] WTB quickbeam or simple one

[ted]

Diverging further you might look into a soma wolverine

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[RBW] Re: Center pull/Herse Brake Help

[Takashi]

Hi Alex

I don't have bikes with centerpulls, but I had squealing issues with my RH 
cantilever brakes.
Long story short, I swapped from salmon pads to black pads (using same 
holders), and after several times of riding, they ceased to squeal.
I've read (in comment section of RH blog, I think) that another user also 
switched from salmon to black and squealing problem was solved.
Also it seems that there is compatibility issue between rims and pads, so 
if you have another rear wheel, you might try putting it on your Homer and 
see how it goes.

Out of curiosity, did you have brake mounts brazed on your Homer?


Takashi

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Re: [RBW] WTB quickbeam or simple one

[Eric Daume]

I've owned:

- Cross Check (62 cm)
- Quickbeam (64 cm)
- BMC Monstercross (62 cm)
- Soma Wolverine (62 cm)
- Mercier Kilo WT (62 cm) (like a long reached Steamroller)
- and too many others to list

Honestly, among those six bikes, they all rode within a good day/bad day of
each other. That is, no bike really stood out more than me having a good or
bad day. Nothing amongst them was dead and wooden, like some bikes I've
had, but none of them have the liveliness of the standard gauge bikes I've
had (the Rawland rSogn particularly stands out, but some vintage Treks have
been good, as was my old Raleigh Technium). So base it on fit, features,
color, price, etc.

I wrote up my thoughts about the CC vc. QB vs. MC here:

https://bikingtoplay.blogspot.com/2019/05/rivendell-quickbeam-vs-surly-cross.html


Spoiler: I would probably pick the CC of those three.

Eric

On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 7:54 PM Andrew Huston <
firsttolastinaninst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I’ve considered both the Fredward and cross check. I’m concerned the rides
> will be uninspiring. Maybe I’m wrong. Carla, what’s your experience? Any
> cross check lovers want to chime in?
>
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Re: [RBW] WTB quickbeam or simple one

[Patrick Moore]

Andrew may well have found his QB, but besides the Surlys and Somas he
might want to consider an old road race bike from the 1970s (or earlier, or
later if with long horizontals, long stays, reasonable hta and sta) -- if
you can still find them; I hear there's a run on any good bike nowadays. My
first several (2 or 3; starting with the Tempo in 1996 or 1997) fixed gear
bikes were repurposed old road frames and I liked them enough to order a
custom RIv fixie in 1999; that is to say that the experience of these
repurposed road frames was so delightful I paid for a fixed Riv Road custom.

One advantage of such old frames can be that many are made from
surprisingly light tubing and thus give a very nice ride. I recall my 1973
Motobecane Grand Record, a ~1966 Bottechia with World Champion sticker but
no model nomenclature, and -- other side of the range -- a very early '90s
or very late '80s Tange Prestige mountain bike that with sufficiently fat
60 mm Big Apples made a wonderful fixed gear all-rounder.

The Bottechia and the Motobecane had longer stays than the mountain bike,
and of course had smaller diameter, if possibly thicker gauge tubing; both
very flexy and very comfortable and nice -- not like my Riv fixies or, I
daresay, like a QB or SO, but worthy substitutes.

Oh, another that I remember fondly: An early Raleigh Technium sports tourer
with long stays and reasonable angles, standard gauge tubes IIRC but made
from (presumably thickwall) aluminum bonded into straight-shouldered steel
"lugs" or sockets. A tank, heavy, but flexy and with the -- at the time,
circa 2003 -- fat, white 23 mm Vittoria clinchers, a Cadillac. I used it to
commute ~ 30 miles rt, and carried some heavy loads, also using it to pull
my then-2-year-old daughter's doublewide trailer (67" gear) against
headwinds on our scheduled Saturday morning outings; great fun.

-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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Re: [RBW] WTB quickbeam or simple one

[Patrick Moore]

Probably needless to say, but that should be "32 mm ...".

On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 7:07 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> .  -- at the time, circa 2003 -- fat, white 23 mm Vittoria clinchers
> ...
>


> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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Re: [RBW] WTB quickbeam or simple one

[Andrew Huston]

As anyone who is looking at bikes recently will find, there are not many 
available. Of those mentioned, only a cross check is available locally. 
Craigslist is becoming less of a resource, likely where the more vintage bikes 
could be found. I’m considering the cross check strongly but have a strong 
desire for the ultra clean lines of a track bike. Don’t ask me why. 
A QB and a SO we’re possibilities but as I mention I need shipping. The owners 
preferred not to bother with it and I don’t blame them. So, still on the hunt. 

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[RBW] FS: new chainring guard

[Jeffrey B]

Sold.

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[RBW] Center pull/Herse Brake Help

[Philip Williamson]

I just chased down squealing brakes, and changing the height where the pad hits 
the rim finally fixed it.
Toeing the brake OUT actually stopped the squeal, too, but I didn’t leave it 
like that.

Philip
Santa Rosa, CA 

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[RBW] Re: Center pull/Herse Brake Help

[Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles]

Phillip I've spent days on this by now, without exaggerating  😂  I like to 
think one of the 73 times I took the pads in and out I would have magically 
put them in some kind of orientation to stop the squeal butwho knows.

@Jeremy I have a couple different one-piece pad options I can experiment 
with

@Takashi swapping in a different wheel is a good troubleshooting 
stepI'll do that firstprobably one-piece pads next and then order 
some black Mafac pads so I can retain my irrational aesthetic obsession.

Thanks all!! Off to a good start with some new ideas


Stay safe out there everyone looks like the entire country is in turmoil, 
Rochester included.

Peace 


Alex

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Re: [RBW] WTB quickbeam or simple one

[Patrick Moore]

One of the nicest riding -- on road -- bikes I ever rode was an early or
mid-1960s Paramount track bike owned by my brother; from the days when
there was surprising clearance between ~23 mm tires and crown and bridge;
more than the 1980s Schwinn Tempo that was my first fixed gear (and a nice
riding bike, too). This handled so much like my custom Riv Roads that I
almost bought it from my brother; I'm rather sorry I didn't. (The crown was
drilled for a brake.) I recall riding it through West LA with some 40-spoke
tandem (?) Campy Record wheels; perhaps it was just the weight of the
wheels -- my brother said it was the bearings -- but that was on of the the
smoothest riding bikes I've been on, and the handling was quick but very
surprisingly neutral in transition between straight and turn, like
Rivendell road bikes.

As for shipping: I've shipped a number of frames and whole bikes by
charging the buyer not only shipping but packing by a reputable bike shop;
the folder I sent, and I think it was shipped unfolded; it included
rack and stand; cost about $150 including packing and Bike Flights or
somesuch. It's not too much bother to drive a bike down to the nearest LBS,
at least if you live in a decent sized city (ABQ, NM).


On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 7:33 PM Andrew Huston <
firsttolastinaninst...@gmail.com> wrote:

>  I’m considering the cross check strongly but have a strong desire for
> the ultra clean lines of a track bike. Don’t ask me why.
> A QB and a SO we’re possibilities but as I mention I need shipping. The
> owners preferred not to bother with it and I don’t blame them.



---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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[RBW] WTB: Sugino Left Side Crankarm 170mm

[Bill Schairer]

I have a left side Sugino A-1 170.  Probably not a match?

Bill S

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