[RBW] Re: Rivendell Garage Sale + After ride speical

[Mike]

Manny, thanks for posting the pictures. As always, they're winners.
That's a great looking Hillborne in your set. I feel like I haven't
been spending much time reading or looking at RBW related stuff but
after looking at your set I'll have to look around on the Flickr
page.

I'll be in SF in 2 weeks for a few days and may try to swing over to
RBW on the Monday before I leave. Unfortunate the trip won't include
any riding. Hopefully next year I'll make a trip to SF and have my
Hilsen with me.

--mike

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[RBW] Re: Helping out a fellow RBW and IBob‏ Member

[Joe Bartoe]

Hi Everyone,

First off, thanks to those of you who have purchased one or more of Jon's 
prints, and thank you to all of you who have spread the word that his work 
exists and is for sale. I've been getting an amazing number of people visiting 
the site from other people's blogs and fb pages and twitter accounts. Please, 
keep that up. This will be a long haul for Auggie and the rest of the Grant 
family. Please, continue to keep them in your thoughts and prayers.

Someone has started a Caring Bridge site for Auggie which you can find here:

http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/teamavenger/

Thanks again everyone,

Joe

Joe Bartoe

Synaptic Cycles Bicycle Rentals, Inc.
email: j...@synapticcycles.com
website: www.synapticcycles.com
Twitter: @synapticcycles

phone: 949-374-6079   

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[RBW] Bombadil Update and "His" Trek 620 Resurrected

[Marty]

Made a few changes to the Bombadil: 55mm SKS fenders with Sackville flaps 
(early black color), Paul Thumbie/Shimano bar-end on the rear derailer (now 
an XT), Suntour power shifter on the down-tube for the front derailer (now 
a Suntour Cyclone Mark II), Mark's rack up front, Headset-mounted bell, 
Cateye headlight and rear light mounted to a Paul Gino mount, German Ergo 
grips. Pics here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/32306142@N07/6453911069/in/set-72157625382429018/

Also resurrected the remaining 1984 Trek 620 with some Rivish bits: 700c 
wheelset with Mavic MA40 rims laced to Shimano 600 hubs, Suntour XC Pro 
front & rear deraliers and thumb shifters, Nitto technomic stem and 
Albatross bars, Nitto 83 post with Brooks B67 saddle, Panaracer Pasela 32mm 
tires, Sugino XP crankset with 24/40 rings and a guard in place of the 
outer ring, MKS Touring pedals, Shimano brake levers. Pics here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/32306142@N07/6453895067/in/set-72157627110654029/

That's it for the early December projects. Now on to writing cards...

Marty

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Garage Sale + After ride speical

[Joe Bernard]

That has to be the most photographed dumpster in history.

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Re: [RBW] Bombadil Update and "His" Trek 620 Resurrected

[jimD]

Nice bikes!
That Bombadil is something.
-JimD
On Dec 4, 2011, at 10:31 AM, Marty wrote:

> Made a few changes to the Bombadil: 55mm SKS fenders with Sackville flaps 
> (early black color), Paul Thumbie/Shimano bar-end on the rear derailer (now 
> an XT), Suntour power shifter on the down-tube for the front derailer (now a 
> Suntour Cyclone Mark II), Mark's rack up front, Headset-mounted bell, Cateye 
> headlight and rear light mounted to a Paul Gino mount, German Ergo grips. 
> Pics here:
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/32306142@N07/6453911069/in/set-72157625382429018/
> 
> Also resurrected the remaining 1984 Trek 620 with some Rivish bits: 700c 
> wheelset with Mavic MA40 rims laced to Shimano 600 hubs, Suntour XC Pro front 
> & rear deraliers and thumb shifters, Nitto technomic stem and Albatross bars, 
> Nitto 83 post with Brooks B67 saddle, Panaracer Pasela 32mm tires, Sugino XP 
> crankset with 24/40 rings and a guard in place of the outer ring, MKS Touring 
> pedals, Shimano brake levers. Pics here:
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/32306142@N07/6453895067/in/set-72157627110654029/
> 
> That's it for the early December projects. Now on to writing cards...
> 
> Marty
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Garage Sale + After ride speical

[Eric Norris]

You can even see it from outer space:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/campyonlyguy/6454637341/in/photostream

--Eric

On Dec 4, 2011, at 11:38 AM, Joe Bernard wrote:

> That has to be the most photographed dumpster in history.
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Garage Sale + After ride speical

[cyclotourist]

ROFL!!!

On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 11:54 AM, Eric Norris  wrote:

> You can even see it from outer space:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/campyonlyguy/6454637341/in/photostream
>
> --Eric
>
> On Dec 4, 2011, at 11:38 AM, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> That has to be the most photographed dumpster in history.
>
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Cheers,
David
Redlands, CA

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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Garage Sale + After ride speical

[jimD]

I believe I can detect lugs on the roof.
-JimD
On Dec 4, 2011, at 12:08 PM, cyclotourist wrote:

> ROFL!!!
> 
> On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 11:54 AM, Eric Norris  wrote:
> You can even see it from outer space:
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/campyonlyguy/6454637341/in/photostream
> 
> --Eric
> 
> On Dec 4, 2011, at 11:38 AM, Joe Bernard wrote:
> 
>> That has to be the most photographed dumpster in history.
>> 
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> 
> 
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> 
> -- 
> Cheers,
> David
> Redlands, CA
> 
> 
> 
> 
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[RBW] Mudflap in or out?

[Joe Bunik]

When mounting a (leather) mudflap to (Honjo) daruma bolts of a fender,
is it better to go inboard or out?

Thanks!
=- Joe Bunik
Walnut Creek, CA

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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Garage Sale + After ride speical

[James Warren]

The overshooters in the magnet game!
-Original Message- From: jimD Sent: Dec 4, 2011 12:39 PM To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [RBW] Rivendell Garage Sale + After ride speical I believe I can detect lugs on the roof.
-JimD

On Dec 4, 2011, at 12:08 PM, cyclotourist wrote:
ROFL!!!
On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 11:54 AM, Eric Norris  wrote:


You can even see it from outer space:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/campyonlyguy/6454637341/in/photostream

--Eric



On Dec 4, 2011, at 11:38 AM, Joe Bernard wrote:

That has to be the most photographed dumpster in history.-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/Hozp2hBtKFcJ.To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.


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[RBW] Re: Bombadil Update and "His" Trek 620 Resurrected

[Marty]

FYI - the 620 is now for sale over on the iBob group. Or send me a note 
off-list. 

Marty

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[RBW] Cycling Explained

[SISDDWG]

Check it out … up for a ride this w/e?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47cGzu6-q40&sns=em

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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Garage Sale + After ride speical

[Joe Bernard]

"This pic generated by a lugged satellite."

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Re: [RBW] Mudflap in or out?

[William Pustow]

I don't know which is better but, traditionally, they're inboard.
Bill
Louisville, Ky

On Dec 4, 2011, at 3:40 PM, Joe Bunik wrote:

> When mounting a (leather) mudflap to (Honjo) daruma bolts of a fender,
> is it better to go inboard or out?
> 
> Thanks!
> =- Joe Bunik
> Walnut Creek, CA
> 
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[RBW] Re: Cycling Explained

[islaysteve]

Thanks, very funny.  My wife it totally mystified. 

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Re: [RBW] Mudflap in or out?

[Steve Palincsar]

On Sun, 2011-12-04 at 12:40 -0800, Joe Bunik wrote:
> When mounting a (leather) mudflap to (Honjo) daruma bolts of a fender,
> is it better to go inboard or out?

I can't imagine how you would do that.  Normally you drill a couple of
holes down at the bottom edge of the fender and bolt them on (to the
outside) with bolts through the mud flap and fender, nuts on the
inside.  



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[RBW] Re: Mudflap in or out?

[Marty]

Came across this - seems right to me:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77448006@N00/3221672976/in/pool-528785@N23/

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[RBW] Re: Mudflap in or out?

[Kelly Sleeper]

May not b as pretty but flat / very thin bolt head inside and nuts outside if 
you are in mud or bad conditions often.
They (nuts) tend to catch leaves and such.

Kelly

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Re: [RBW] Re: Mudflap in or out?

[Steve Palincsar]

On Sun, 2011-12-04 at 14:32 -0800, Marty wrote:
> Came across this - seems right to me:
> 
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/77448006@N00/3221672976/in/pool-528785@N23/

Here's mine:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/97916047@N00/326011540/sizes/o/in/set-72157603355855778/




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[RBW] Re: Cycling Explained

[Mojo]

Oh that's great! The older I get the more I relate to her point of view.
I even got my parachute wings in the USAF back in the day.
 
Thanks!

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Re: [RBW] Mudflap in or out?

[James Black]

On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 12:40, Joe Bunik  wrote:
> When mounting a (leather) mudflap to (Honjo) daruma bolts of a fender,
> is it better to go inboard or out?

I think the flap should go outboard, because if it is inboard it could
disrupt the flow of water out the bottom of the fender. That said, in
a recent issue of BQ there were instructions about how to put a flap
inboard and secured by the rolled-over edges of the fender. If I were
to put a mudflap inboard, I would probably put some tape over the top
on the inside in order to smooth the transition, to make it more like
a ramp and less like a curb.

James Black
Los Angeles, CA

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Re: [RBW] Mudflap in or out?

[Steve Palincsar]

On Sun, 2011-12-04 at 16:07 -0800, James Black wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 12:40, Joe Bunik  wrote:
> > When mounting a (leather) mudflap to (Honjo) daruma bolts of a fender,
> > is it better to go inboard or out?
> 
> I think the flap should go outboard, because if it is inboard it could
> disrupt the flow of water out the bottom of the fender. That said, in
> a recent issue of BQ there were instructions about how to put a flap
> inboard and secured by the rolled-over edges of the fender. If I were
> to put a mudflap inboard, I would probably put some tape over the top
> on the inside in order to smooth the transition, to make it more like
> a ramp and less like a curb.

However, that flap was very thin rubber and quite unlike the thick
leather mud flap the OP inquired about.



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[RBW] Near-Catastrophic Rim Failure

[Ray]

Took a nice ride across the bridge and up to Hawk Hill, planning to
get home in time to catch the 49er game at the end of 1st quarter. I
didn't make it.  My rear rim blew out as I took a slow (translated:
continuous braking down 18% descent to hold speed at 10(-)mph.)
descent down back side of Conzumel Road toward the lighthouse.

Because I crashed on the same section of this road in January and
broke my collarbone, I have been taking this descent extra carefully
and slowly now that I am back on the bike.  Just as I was in the last
tight turn before the road levels out to a reasonable grade, my rear
tire popped and blew out.

I managed to stay upright and bring it to a stop against a bank.
There, I discovered that my rear rim blew out and a 18" section of the
sidewall bead just blew out and tangled up in the spokes and
chainstay. The wheel rims are Araya. Just prior to leaving home, I
pumped up the rear Pasella x32 to 85 pounds. The wheels are about
three years old. No prior wheel trauma.

Could this failure resulted from the long braking over-heating the rim
and the pressure blowing it out? Seems strange, but, can that happen?

Here are the pix:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8581354@N03/sets/72157628281638979/with/6455986331/



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Re: [RBW] Near-Catastrophic Rim Failure

[Steve Palincsar]

On Sun, 2011-12-04 at 16:35 -0800, Ray wrote:
> Took a nice ride across the bridge and up to Hawk Hill, planning to
> get home in time to catch the 49er game at the end of 1st quarter. I
> didn't make it.  My rear rim blew out as I took a slow (translated:
> continuous braking down 18% descent to hold speed at 10(-)mph.)
> descent down back side of Conzumel Road toward the lighthouse.
> 
> Because I crashed on the same section of this road in January and
> broke my collarbone, I have been taking this descent extra carefully
> and slowly now that I am back on the bike.  Just as I was in the last
> tight turn before the road levels out to a reasonable grade, my rear
> tire popped and blew out.
> 
> I managed to stay upright and bring it to a stop against a bank.
> There, I discovered that my rear rim blew out and a 18" section of the
> sidewall bead just blew out and tangled up in the spokes and
> chainstay. The wheel rims are Araya. Just prior to leaving home, I
> pumped up the rear Pasella x32 to 85 pounds. The wheels are about
> three years old. No prior wheel trauma.
> 
> Could this failure resulted from the long braking over-heating the rim
> and the pressure blowing it out? Seems strange, but, can that happen?

You didn't happen to touch the rim to see if it was actually hot, did
you?

Just to cast a glance over the usual suspects -- is this by any chance a
non-hook bead rim?  Is 85 psi a usual pressure for you, that you've used
successfully with this particular tire/tube/rim combination before?  Was
the tire recently installed, or has it been in service in this
configuration for some time?

And by the way, I'm very glad you are unhurt.



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[RBW] Re: Near-Catastrophic Rim Failure

[EricP]

First off - glad you are okay.  Possibly could have been an overheated
rim.  On the other hand, had a similar rim failure early this year on
my LHT (which is also a winter commuter).  My LBS concluded that a
small stone (or something similar) got stuck in a brake pad and
quickly cut a deep groove in the wall of the rim.  Which then failed.
Might want to check your pads and make sure nothing is embedded and
waiting to chew another rim apart.

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

On Dec 4, 6:35 pm, Ray  wrote:
> Took a nice ride across the bridge and up to Hawk Hill, planning to
> get home in time to catch the 49er game at the end of 1st quarter. I
> didn't make it.  My rear rim blew out as I took a slow (translated:
> continuous braking down 18% descent to hold speed at 10(-)mph.)
> descent down back side of Conzumel Road toward the lighthouse.
>
> Because I crashed on the same section of this road in January and
> broke my collarbone, I have been taking this descent extra carefully
> and slowly now that I am back on the bike.  Just as I was in the last
> tight turn before the road levels out to a reasonable grade, my rear
> tire popped and blew out.
>
> I managed to stay upright and bring it to a stop against a bank.
> There, I discovered that my rear rim blew out and a 18" section of the
> sidewall bead just blew out and tangled up in the spokes and
> chainstay. The wheel rims are Araya. Just prior to leaving home, I
> pumped up the rear Pasella x32 to 85 pounds. The wheels are about
> three years old. No prior wheel trauma.
>
> Could this failure resulted from the long braking over-heating the rim
> and the pressure blowing it out? Seems strange, but, can that happen?
>
> Here are the pix:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/8581354@N03/sets/72157628281638979/with/...

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Re: [RBW] Near-Catastrophic Rim Failure

[Ray Shine]

I did touch the rim, and it was hot. However, I've touched other rims on the 
same descent and they seemed hotter. I never rolled faster than 10 mph when I 
started the descent. I scared. So, I was on the brakes for about 3/4 mile on an 
18% descent.  The tires, tubes and wheels have been mated for several months, 
and I have ridden the bike a lot, maybe 3 or 4 hundred miles. This was the 
second trip down this grade on this bike this week. I normally do inflate to 
about 80, but thought they seemed "squishy", so I added 5. The sidewall says 95.

I checked the brake pads and the sidewalls of both wheels like Eric suggested, 
and see nothing out of the ordinary.





From: Steve Palincsar 
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, December 4, 2011 4:43:48 PM
Subject: Re: [RBW] Near-Catastrophic Rim Failure

On Sun, 2011-12-04 at 16:35 -0800, Ray wrote:
> Took a nice ride across the bridge and up to Hawk Hill, planning to
> get home in time to catch the 49er game at the end of 1st quarter. I
> didn't make it.  My rear rim blew out as I took a slow (translated:
> continuous braking down 18% descent to hold speed at 10(-)mph.)
> descent down back side of Conzumel Road toward the lighthouse.
> 
> Because I crashed on the same section of this road in January and
> broke my collarbone, I have been taking this descent extra carefully
> and slowly now that I am back on the bike.  Just as I was in the last
> tight turn before the road levels out to a reasonable grade, my rear
> tire popped and blew out.
> 
> I managed to stay upright and bring it to a stop against a bank.
> There, I discovered that my rear rim blew out and a 18" section of the
> sidewall bead just blew out and tangled up in the spokes and
> chainstay. The wheel rims are Araya. Just prior to leaving home, I
> pumped up the rear Pasella x32 to 85 pounds. The wheels are about
> three years old. No prior wheel trauma.
> 
> Could this failure resulted from the long braking over-heating the rim
> and the pressure blowing it out? Seems strange, but, can that happen?

You didn't happen to touch the rim to see if it was actually hot, did
you?

Just to cast a glance over the usual suspects -- is this by any chance a
non-hook bead rim?  Is 85 psi a usual pressure for you, that you've used
successfully with this particular tire/tube/rim combination before?  Was
the tire recently installed, or has it been in service in this
configuration for some time?

And by the way, I'm very glad you are unhurt.



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Re: [RBW] Near-Catastrophic Rim Failure

[cyclotourist]

Were the rims particularly narrow?  32mm isn't all that wide, but "fat"
tires on narrow rims can lead to catastrophic failure.  I wouldn't think
this is the situation, but maybe one more variable that lined up against
you today.  Glad you could walk away from it and hope  you're not too
shaken.

On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 5:05 PM, Ray Shine  wrote:

> I did touch the rim, and it was hot. However, I've touched other rims on
> the same descent and they seemed hotter. I never rolled faster than 10 mph
> when I started the descent. I scared. So, I was on the brakes for about 3/4
> mile on an 18% descent.  The tires, tubes and wheels have been mated for
> several months, and I have ridden the bike a lot, maybe 3 or 4 hundred
> miles. This was the second trip down this grade on this bike this week. I
> normally do inflate to about 80, but thought they seemed "squishy", so I
> added 5. The sidewall says 95.
>
> I checked the brake pads and the sidewalls of both wheels like Eric
> suggested, and see nothing out of the ordinary.
>
> --
> *From:* Steve Palincsar 
> *To:* rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
> *Sent:* Sun, December 4, 2011 4:43:48 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [RBW] Near-Catastrophic Rim Failure
>
> On Sun, 2011-12-04 at 16:35 -0800, Ray wrote:
> > Took a nice ride across the bridge and up to Hawk Hill, planning to
> > get home in time to catch the 49er game at the end of 1st quarter. I
> > didn't make it.  My rear rim blew out as I took a slow (translated:
> > continuous braking down 18% descent to hold speed at 10(-)mph.)
> > descent down back side of Conzumel Road toward the lighthouse.
> >
> > Because I crashed on the same section of this road in January and
> > broke my collarbone, I have been taking this descent extra carefully
> > and slowly now that I am back on the bike.  Just as I was in the last
> > tight turn before the road levels out to a reasonable grade, my rear
> > tire popped and blew out.
> >
> > I managed to stay upright and bring it to a stop against a bank.
> > There, I discovered that my rear rim blew out and a 18" section of the
> > sidewall bead just blew out and tangled up in the spokes and
> > chainstay. The wheel rims are Araya. Just prior to leaving home, I
> > pumped up the rear Pasella x32 to 85 pounds. The wheels are about
> > three years old. No prior wheel trauma.
> >
> > Could this failure resulted from the long braking over-heating the rim
> > and the pressure blowing it out? Seems strange, but, can that happen?
>
> You didn't happen to touch the rim to see if it was actually hot, did
> you?
>
> Just to cast a glance over the usual suspects -- is this by any chance a
> non-hook bead rim?  Is 85 psi a usual pressure for you, that you've used
> successfully with this particular tire/tube/rim combination before?  Was
> the tire recently installed, or has it been in service in this
> configuration for some time?
>
> And by the way, I'm very glad you are unhurt.
>
>
>
> --
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David
Redlands, CA

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Re: [RBW] Near-Catastrophic Rim Failure

[Ray Shine]

No. I used to run these same wheels on my Canti-rom with 28s, but I've been 
using 32s on them for several years. 


Yes, and thanks to all for the best wishes. I'm fine, but can't help thinking 
that mountain does not want be on it for some reason…





From: cyclotourist 
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, December 4, 2011 5:29:51 PM
Subject: Re: [RBW] Near-Catastrophic Rim Failure

Were the rims particularly narrow?  32mm isn't all that wide, but "fat" tires 
on 
narrow rims can lead to catastrophic failure.  I wouldn't think this is the 
situation, but maybe one more variable that lined up against you today.  Glad 
you could walk away from it and hope  you're not too shaken.


On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 5:05 PM, Ray Shine  wrote:

I did touch the rim, and it was hot. However, I've touched other rims on the 
same descent and they seemed hotter. I never rolled faster than 10 mph when I 
started the descent. I scared. So, I was on the brakes for about 3/4 mile on an 
18% descent.  The tires, tubes and wheels have been mated for several months, 
and I have ridden the bike a lot, maybe 3 or 4 hundred miles. This was the 
second trip down this grade on this bike this week. I normally do inflate to 
about 80, but thought they seemed "squishy", so I added 5. The sidewall says 95.
>
>I checked the brake pads and the sidewalls of both wheels like Eric suggested, 
>and see nothing out of the ordinary.
>
>
>
>

From: Steve Palincsar 
>To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
>Sent: Sun, December 4, 2011 4:43:48 PM
>Subject: Re: [RBW] Near-Catastrophic Rim Failure
>
>
>On Sun, 2011-12-04 at 16:35 -0800, Ray wrote:
>> Took a nice ride across the bridge and up to Hawk Hill, planning to
>> get home in time to catch the 49er game at the end of 1st quarter. I
>> didn't make it.  My rear rim blew out as I took a slow (translated:
>> continuous braking down 18% descent to hold speed at 10(-)mph.)
>> descent down back side of Conzumel Road toward the lighthouse.
>> 
>> Because I crashed on the same section of this road in January and
>> broke my collarbone, I have been taking this descent extra carefully
>> and slowly now that I am back on the bike.  Just as I was in the last
>> tight turn before the road levels out to a reasonable grade, my rear
>> tire popped and blew out.
>> 
>> I managed to stay upright and bring it to a stop against a bank.
>> There, I discovered that my rear rim blew out and a 18" section of the
>> sidewall bead just  blew out and tangled up in the spokes and
>> chainstay. The wheel rims are Araya. Just prior to leaving home, I
>> pumped up the rear Pasella x32 to 85 pounds. The wheels are about
>> three years old. No prior wheel trauma.
>> 
>> Could this failure resulted from the long braking over-heating the rim
>> and the pressure blowing it out? Seems strange, but, can that happen?
>
>You didn't happen to touch the rim to see if it was actually hot, did
>you?
>
>Just to cast a glance over the usual suspects -- is this by any chance a
>non-hook bead rim?  Is 85 psi a usual pressure for you, that you've used
>successfully with this particular tire/tube/rim combination before?  Was
>the tire recently installed, or has it been in service in this
>configuration for some time?
>
>And by the way, I'm very glad you are unhurt.
>
>
>
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David
Redlands, CA




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[RBW] Re: Near-Catastrophic Rim Failure

[grant]

I've seen maybe fifteen rims fail this way, and ever time it's been
caused by rock-wear, as Eric suggested. That's not to say nothing else
can cause it, but that is (in my experience) the most common (100
percent) reason for it. Rim makers and tire makers build more wiggle-
room into their stuffs than...an extra five psi. Close inspection
would tell the story---whether the chunk-o-rim just blew out suddenly
("catastrophically" means suddenly and complete, in this context), or
whether the rim had been scored deep by Foreign Object for a while,
and just couldn't take it anymore.

Conzelman (note spelling) is a beautiful road, as neat as any in
California (maybe the world). Too short, one way, and what a
dropoff.Glad you're OK, Ray.

On Dec 4, 4:35 pm, Ray  wrote:
> Took a nice ride across the bridge and up to Hawk Hill, planning to
> get home in time to catch the 49er game at the end of 1st quarter. I
> didn't make it.  My rear rim blew out as I took a slow (translated:
> continuous braking down 18% descent to hold speed at 10(-)mph.)
> descent down back side of Conzumel Road toward the lighthouse.
>
> Because I crashed on the same section of this road in January and
> broke my collarbone, I have been taking this descent extra carefully
> and slowly now that I am back on the bike.  Just as I was in the last
> tight turn before the road levels out to a reasonable grade, my rear
> tire popped and blew out.
>
> I managed to stay upright and bring it to a stop against a bank.
> There, I discovered that my rear rim blew out and a 18" section of the
> sidewall bead just blew out and tangled up in the spokes and
> chainstay. The wheel rims are Araya. Just prior to leaving home, I
> pumped up the rear Pasella x32 to 85 pounds. The wheels are about
> three years old. No prior wheel trauma.
>
> Could this failure resulted from the long braking over-heating the rim
> and the pressure blowing it out? Seems strange, but, can that happen?
>
> Here are the pix:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/8581354@N03/sets/72157628281638979/with/...

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Re: [RBW] Near-Catastrophic Rim Failure

[Tim McNamara]

On Dec 4, 2011, at 6:35 PM, Ray wrote:

> Could this failure resulted from the long braking over-heating the rim
> and the pressure blowing it out? Seems strange, but, can that happen?


I've seen this before.  Usually it is from braking wear thinning the sidewall 
over time, more prevalent for people who ride in hilly or mountainous terrain 
and/or in rainy weather a lot.  The road grit and slurry that gets on the rims 
forms a nice grinding pace.  Sometimes the sidewall is scored by a small pebble 
or bit of metal that gets caught in the brake pad.  And once in great a while 
the cause of the failure is an extrusion flaw.

Glad you weren't hurt!  It might be that your long braking heated the rim and 
caused the blowout, which took the weakened rim with it.  When the rim gets 
really hot, the rubber of the sidewall along the bead gets hot and slippery and 
can lift over the rim.

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Re: [RBW] Near-Catastrophic Rim Failure

[James Black]

On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 16:35, Ray  wrote:
> Could this failure resulted from the long braking over-heating the rim
> and the pressure blowing it out? Seems strange, but, can that happen?

I'm wondering if the heat caused the tire to blow out, and it was the
force of the tire blowout that then destroyed the rim?

James Black
Los Angeles, CA

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Re: [RBW] Mudflap in or out?

[Kelly Sleeper]

Here are my mud flaps.. 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tksleeper/6153799175/in/set-72157627561999537/

Kelly

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Re: [RBW] Mudflap in or out?

[jimD]

Oh no!

Zip ties are the answer.

They may not be appropriate fasteners for 'fine Rivendell bicycles' but face 
it, they really are da bomb.
-JimD

On Dec 4, 2011, at 12:40 PM, Joe Bunik wrote:

> When mounting a (leather) mudflap to (Honjo) daruma bolts of a fender,
> is it better to go inboard or out?
> 
> Thanks!
> =- Joe Bunik
> Walnut Creek, CA
> 
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Re: [RBW] Near-Catastrophic Rim Failure

[jimD]

Sheesh, this is incredibly bad karma.
Me, I'd stay off of that road.
-JimD

On Dec 4, 2011, at 4:35 PM, Ray wrote:

> Took a nice ride across the bridge and up to Hawk Hill, planning to
> get home in time to catch the 49er game at the end of 1st quarter. I
> didn't make it.  My rear rim blew out as I took a slow (translated:
> continuous braking down 18% descent to hold speed at 10(-)mph.)
> descent down back side of Conzumel Road toward the lighthouse.
> 
> Because I crashed on the same section of this road in January and
> broke my collarbone, I have been taking this descent extra carefully
> and slowly now that I am back on the bike.  Just as I was in the last
> tight turn before the road levels out to a reasonable grade, my rear
> tire popped and blew out.
> 
> I managed to stay upright and bring it to a stop against a bank.
> There, I discovered that my rear rim blew out and a 18" section of the
> sidewall bead just blew out and tangled up in the spokes and
> chainstay. The wheel rims are Araya. Just prior to leaving home, I
> pumped up the rear Pasella x32 to 85 pounds. The wheels are about
> three years old. No prior wheel trauma.
> 
> Could this failure resulted from the long braking over-heating the rim
> and the pressure blowing it out? Seems strange, but, can that happen?
> 
> Here are the pix:
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/8581354@N03/sets/72157628281638979/with/6455986331/
> 
> 
> 
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[RBW] Re: Cycling Explained

[Kelly Sleeper]

My first thought was .. Oh my I'm not a cyclist anymore ..  I do remember doing 
my max heart rate stress test on a hill though.. Didnt throw up either .. Maybe 
I never was :)

Made a dumb video once though
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n_UbH8icfs&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Kelly

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Re: [RBW] Mudflap in or out?

[Steve Palincsar]

On Sun, 2011-12-04 at 18:40 -0800, jimD wrote:
> Oh no!
> 
> Zip ties are the answer.
> 
> They may not be appropriate fasteners for 'fine Rivendell bicycles' but face 
> it, they really are da bomb.

Actually, they are Grant-approved and so quite appropriate for Rivendell
bicycles, but certainly not for other fine bicycles.  



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[RBW] Trying a Foss Tube

[jimD]

Since the rear JB green tire on my Riv Custom is showing significant wear and 
recently had a flat I decided that this is  good 
time to try a Foss tube.

The links on the Riv site lead to some interesting YouTube videos.  The one 
from Foss is very marketing-esque.
Foss seem very concerned with the tube moving within the tire. They also stress 
where the connection mold mark should be located.  They also stress installing 
the tube un-inflated. Oh, they also make some claim about the tubes 'not 
exploding' or
something of that sort.

So I installed the 700C X 34-44 tube un-inflated on my OpenPro  fabric tapped 
rims.
I ignored Foss's paranoia about tube slip, skipped their custom sticky rim 
strips, and kept the tube un-inflated during the install
process. I'm not sure why they insist that un-inflated is the way to go but 
didn't want to temp fate since I'm dealing with new
tube technology here.

This may be the only time in my life that I've installed a tube with out 
putting a bit of air in it.
All went well and the tube seems to fit perfectly. Boy, I hope it isn't 
slipping within the  tire!

I found an interesting video that is in a language I don't recognize by some 
one  who has 'slime' as a significant aspect of their 
user name. As best as I could understand the video, it seems to advocate the 
putting Slime in Foss tubes is the drop dead,
belt and suspenders, absolutely the cat's meow, way to go to avoid flats.

If I was still living in Albuquerque I'd probably try this as a countermeasure 
for heinous Goat Heads.

I'll update my experience as things evolve.

-JimD

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Re: [RBW] Re: Cycling Explained

[jimD]

"Up Periscope"!
Thanks for the laughs.
-JimD
On Dec 4, 2011, at 6:50 PM, Kelly Sleeper wrote:

> My first thought was .. Oh my I'm not a cyclist anymore ..  I do remember 
> doing my max heart rate stress test on a hill though.. Didnt throw up either 
> .. Maybe I never was :)
> 
> Made a dumb video once though
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n_UbH8icfs&feature=youtube_gdata_player
> 
> Kelly
> 
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Re: [RBW] Near-Catastrophic Rim Failure

[Steve Palincsar]

On Sun, 2011-12-04 at 17:05 -0800, Ray Shine wrote:
> I did touch the rim, and it was hot. However, I've touched other rims
> on the same descent and they seemed hotter. I never rolled faster than
> 10 mph when I started the descent. I scared. So, I was on the brakes
> for about 3/4 mile on an 18% descent.  The tires, tubes and wheels
> have been mated for several months, and I have ridden the bike a lot,
> maybe 3 or 4 hundred miles. This was the second trip down this grade
> on this bike this week. I normally do inflate to about 80, but thought
> they seemed "squishy", so I added 5. The sidewall says 95.
> 
> I checked the brake pads and the sidewalls of both wheels like Eric
> suggested, and see nothing out of the ordinary.


So you've eliminated installation issues and it sounds like you've
eliminated overheating as well.  Rim wear is the prime suspect, in my
estimation.



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Re: [RBW] Re: Near-Catastrophic Rim Failure

[Ray Shine]

Well, kind of glad to hear that -- only 15. I need a new rim now anyway, so 
maybe I'll BART out and show you guys the wheel and the failed section pretty 
soon.  You guys -- and maybe Rich -- might offer a conclusion that would 
benefit 
some other folks on this list. (By the way, I'm not suggesting definitively 
that 
Rich built this wheel. I actually don't recall where I got it.)





From: grant 
To: RBW Owners Bunch 
Sent: Sun, December 4, 2011 6:25:09 PM
Subject: [RBW] Re: Near-Catastrophic Rim Failure

I've seen maybe fifteen rims fail this way, and ever time it's been
caused by rock-wear, as Eric suggested. That's not to say nothing else
can cause it, but that is (in my experience) the most common (100
percent) reason for it. Rim makers and tire makers build more wiggle-
room into their stuffs than...an extra five psi. Close inspection
would tell the story---whether the chunk-o-rim just blew out suddenly
("catastrophically" means suddenly and complete, in this context), or
whether the rim had been scored deep by Foreign Object for a while,
and just couldn't take it anymore.

Conzelman (note spelling) is a beautiful road, as neat as any in
California (maybe the world). Too short, one way, and what a
dropoff.Glad you're OK, Ray.

On Dec 4, 4:35 pm, Ray  wrote:
> Took a nice ride across the bridge and up to Hawk Hill, planning to
> get home in time to catch the 49er game at the end of 1st quarter. I
> didn't make it.  My rear rim blew out as I took a slow (translated:
> continuous braking down 18% descent to hold speed at 10(-)mph.)
> descent down back side of Conzumel Road toward the lighthouse.
>
> Because I crashed on the same section of this road in January and
> broke my collarbone, I have been taking this descent extra carefully
> and slowly now that I am back on the bike.  Just as I was in the last
> tight turn before the road levels out to a reasonable grade, my rear
> tire popped and blew out.
>
> I managed to stay upright and bring it to a stop against a bank.
> There, I discovered that my rear rim blew out and a 18" section of the
> sidewall bead just blew out and tangled up in the spokes and
> chainstay. The wheel rims are Araya. Just prior to leaving home, I
> pumped up the rear Pasella x32 to 85 pounds. The wheels are about
> three years old. No prior wheel trauma.
>
> Could this failure resulted from the long braking over-heating the rim
> and the pressure blowing it out? Seems strange, but, can that happen?
>
> Here are the pix:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/8581354@N03/sets/72157628281638979/with/...

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Re: [RBW] Update Info; Near-Catastrophic Rim Failure

[Ray Shine]

After Eric's and Grant's responses, I went back downstairs and took a long hard 
look at things. I removed the right rear brake pad and found a strange groove 
cut into it, about the width of the failed rim piece. I tried to take a photo, 
but it doesn't show up well.  The other interesting thing, I found a 2 mm bulge 
mid-way along the length of the failure directly next to a spoke nipple hole on 
the braking surface of the rim. The spoke and the nipple appear to be in proper 
condition, not loose, no cracks around the nipple hole. There are no other such 
bulges anywhere on either side of the rim.  The bulge is not on a weld joint, 
either.  I don't know what, but this has got to mesan something. Oh, and I used 
a glass to closely inspect the brake pad. no foreign objects embedded in the 
compound.  Also, the sidewall of the Pasella has no evidence of the compound 
having rubbed into it and caused the blow out.  Anyone out there got any 
thoughts on this?





From: Ray Shine 
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, December 4, 2011 7:16:48 PM
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Near-Catastrophic Rim Failure


Well, kind of glad to hear that -- only 15. I need a new rim now anyway, so 
maybe I'll BART out and show you guys the wheel and the failed section pretty 
soon.  You guys -- and maybe Rich -- might offer a conclusion that would 
benefit 
some other folks on this list. (By the way, I'm not suggesting definitively 
that 
Rich built this wheel. I actually don't recall where I got it.)





From: grant 
To: RBW Owners Bunch 
Sent: Sun, December 4, 2011 6:25:09 PM
Subject: [RBW] Re: Near-Catastrophic Rim Failure

I've seen maybe fifteen rims fail this way, and ever time it's been
caused by rock-wear, as Eric suggested. That's not to say nothing else
can cause it, but that is (in my experience) the most common (100
percent) reason for it. Rim makers and tire makers build more wiggle-
room into their stuffs than...an extra five psi. Close inspection
would tell the story---whether the chunk-o-rim just blew out suddenly
("catastrophically" means suddenly and complete, in this context), or
whether the rim had been scored deep by Foreign Object for a while,
and just couldn't take it anymore.

Conzelman (note spelling) is a beautiful road, as neat as any in
California (maybe the world). Too short, one way, and what a
dropoff.Glad you're OK, Ray.

On Dec 4, 4:35 pm, Ray  wrote:
> Took a nice ride across the  bridge and up to Hawk Hill, planning to
> get home in time to catch the 49er game at the end of 1st quarter. I
> didn't make it.  My rear rim blew out as I took a slow (translated:
> continuous braking down 18% descent to hold speed at 10(-)mph.)
> descent down back side of Conzumel Road toward the lighthouse.
>
> Because I crashed on the same section of this road in January and
> broke my collarbone, I have been taking this descent extra carefully
> and slowly now that I am back on the bike.  Just as I was in the last
> tight turn before the road levels out to a reasonable grade, my rear
> tire popped and blew out.
>
> I managed to stay upright and bring it to a stop against a bank.
> There, I discovered that my rear rim blew out and a 18" section of the
> sidewall bead just blew out and tangled up in the spokes and
> chainstay. The wheel rims are Araya.  Just prior to leaving home, I
> pumped up the rear Pasella x32 to 85 pounds. The wheels are about
> three years old. No prior wheel trauma.
>
> Could this failure resulted from the long braking over-heating the rim
> and the pressure blowing it out? Seems strange, but, can that happen?
>
> Here are the pix:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/8581354@N03/sets/72157628281638979/with/...

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Re: [RBW] Near-Catastrophic Rim Failure

[Joe Bunik]

On 12/4/11, Tim McNamara  wrote:
>
> I've seen this before.  Usually it is from braking wear thinning the
> sidewall over time, more prevalent for people who ride in hilly or
> mountainous terrain and/or in rainy weather a lot.  The road grit and slurry
> that gets on the rims forms a nice grinding pace.

I've *had* this, as per Tim's description, happen before (Ritchey
Girder rim)... fortunately however, while on the stand! Was inflating
a Pasela x35 to a higher pressure than I now prefer, when kaboom! 50%
of the sidewall sheared/collapsed away...

The rims were *nowhere* as near pristine-appearing as Ray's though-
instead, exactly fit the above description on my Boston and Pittsburgh
winter commuter. Inspection afterward taught me concave rim wear is A
Very Bad Sign.

=- Joe Bunik
Walnut Creek, CA

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[RBW] Re: Mudflap in or out?

[Philip Williamson]

I had my mudflaps inboard, but they would flip backwards and make an
'origami fold' that poked out and touched the tire, which would drag
them up inside the fender. I would have to stop and fish them out. I
moved the flaps to the outside, and all's well. I do have them
attached with the draw bolts. The super-low bolts are not the approved
style, but do minimize toe overlap. The flaps are fairly thin leather,
being reclaimed shoe tongues, and the fenders are aluminum V-O
Zeppelins: http://www.biketinker.com/2011/projects/shoe-tongue-mudflap-remount/

 Philip

Philip Williamson
www.biketinker.com


On Dec 4, 12:40 pm, Joe Bunik  wrote:
> When mounting a (leather) mudflap to (Honjo) daruma bolts of a fender,
> is it better to go inboard or out?
>
> Thanks!
> =- Joe Bunik
> Walnut Creek, CA

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[RBW] Re: Near-Catastrophic Rim Failure

[Manuel Acosta]

Looks like thin side wall issues. Same thing happened to me lucky not
on a decent down.

On Dec 4, 4:35 pm, Ray  wrote:
> Took a nice ride across the bridge and up to Hawk Hill, planning to
> get home in time to catch the 49er game at the end of 1st quarter. I
> didn't make it.  My rear rim blew out as I took a slow (translated:
> continuous braking down 18% descent to hold speed at 10(-)mph.)
> descent down back side of Conzumel Road toward the lighthouse.
>
> Because I crashed on the same section of this road in January and
> broke my collarbone, I have been taking this descent extra carefully
> and slowly now that I am back on the bike.  Just as I was in the last
> tight turn before the road levels out to a reasonable grade, my rear
> tire popped and blew out.
>
> I managed to stay upright and bring it to a stop against a bank.
> There, I discovered that my rear rim blew out and a 18" section of the
> sidewall bead just blew out and tangled up in the spokes and
> chainstay. The wheel rims are Araya. Just prior to leaving home, I
> pumped up the rear Pasella x32 to 85 pounds. The wheels are about
> three years old. No prior wheel trauma.
>
> Could this failure resulted from the long braking over-heating the rim
> and the pressure blowing it out? Seems strange, but, can that happen?
>
> Here are the pix:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/8581354@N03/sets/72157628281638979/with/...

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Garage Sale + After ride speical

[Manuel Acosta]

Found more pictures on the cam. These include camera dueling with Mr.
Harry Hugel, sample photos of some bags that were on sale and some
super cheap parts!
Also got my xmas tree this morning via bike. Interesting thing that
happens while riding down the street with a tree strapped to your
back, you get a lot of funny stares.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/mannyacosta/sets/72157628286081373/

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