[python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

[Sophie Hendley]

Hey all,

I wanted to see if anyone on this list would be interested in chatting to
me about either of the following.

*Principle engineer/ Future CTO to highly anticipated insurance start-up *

Techstack:

Python
Django
Javascript
React.js


*Principle engineer /Second in command to the CTO at a highly successful
SAAS start-up. *

Techstack:

Python
AWS
SQL
API's
Postgre


Get in touch if you are interested.

--

Sophie Hendley| Principal Consultant| Digital Vision

*M:* 07505145903

*E: *sophie.hend...@digvis.co.uk

*W:* www.digvis.co.uk

Sponsor me please- https://www.justgiving.com/sophiehendley/
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Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

[David Hughes]

On 06/12/2016 10:20, Sophie Hendley wrote:

Hey all,

I wanted to see if anyone on this list would be interested in chatting 
to me about either of the following.

*_
_*
*_Principle engineer/ Future CTO to highly anticipated insurance 
start-up _*


...


*_Principle engineer /Second in command to the CTO at a highly 
successful SAAS start-up. _*


...


Get in touch if you are interested.



Yes, in principal, I would be interested ;-)

--
Regards

David Hughes
Forestfield Software


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Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

[Alistair Broomhead]

As a warning to others, I think you might not have wanted to reply to the
list ;)

On Tue, 6 Dec 2016 at 11:09 David Hughes  wrote:

> On 06/12/2016 10:20, Sophie Hendley wrote:
>
> Hey all,
>
> I wanted to see if anyone on this list would be interested in chatting to
> me about either of the following.
>
> *Principle engineer/ Future CTO to highly anticipated insurance start-up *
>
> ...
>
>
>
> *Principle engineer /Second in command to the CTO at a highly successful
> SAAS start-up. *
>
> ...
>
>
>
> Get in touch if you are interested.
>
>
> Yes, in principal, I would be interested ;-)
>
> --
> Regards
>
> David Hughes
> Forestfield Software
>
>
>
> ___
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Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

[Matthew Webber]

>
> As a warning to others, I think you might not have wanted to reply to the
> list ;)
>

He probably did. It was a subtle dig at the recruiter mixing up "principle"
and "principal".

Share and enjoy.
Matthew
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Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

[Richard Barran]

Did I just hear a “whoosh!” ?

> On 6 Dec 2016, at 12:21, Alistair Broomhead  
> wrote:
> 
> As a warning to others, I think you might not have wanted to reply to the 
> list ;)
> 
> On Tue, 6 Dec 2016 at 11:09 David Hughes  > wrote:
> On 06/12/2016 10:20, Sophie Hendley wrote:
>> Hey all, 
>> 
>> I wanted to see if anyone on this list would be interested in chatting to me 
>> about either of the following.
>> 
> 
>> Principle engineer/ Future CTO to highly anticipated insurance start-up 
>> 
> 
>> ...
> 
>> 
>> 
>> Principle engineer /Second in command to the CTO at a highly successful SAAS 
>> start-up. 
>> 
> 
>> ...
> 
>> 
>> 
>> Get in touch if you are interested. 
>> 
> 
> 
> Yes, in principal, I would be interested ;-)
> 
> -- 
> Regards
> 
> David Hughes
> Forestfield Software
> 
> 
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Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

[Nicholas H.Tollervey]

On 06/12/16 11:53, Matthew Webber wrote:
> He probably did. It was a subtle dig at the recruiter mixing up
> "principle" and "principal".

How do you know they don't want a philosopher/Pythonista..? Having
principles is important y'know... ;-)



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Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

[Andy Robinson]

On 6 December 2016 at 12:01, Nicholas H.Tollervey  wrote:
> How do you know they don't want a philosopher/Pythonista..? Having
> principles is important y'know... ;-)

Yes, but if the job involves "engineering" peoples' principles, it's a
bit worrying.

- Andy
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Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

[Nicholas H.Tollervey]

On 06/12/16 12:31, Andy Robinson wrote:
> Yes, but if the job involves "engineering" peoples' principles, it's a
> bit worrying.

Depending on your level of cynicism that could apply to all sorts of
professions: from teachers via priests and "marketing types" to politicians.



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Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

[Steve Holden]

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Nicholas H.Tollervey 
wrote:

> On 06/12/16 12:31, Andy Robinson wrote:
> > Yes, but if the job involves "engineering" peoples' principles, it's a
> > bit worrying.
>
> Depending on your level of cynicism that could apply to all sorts of
> professions: from teachers via priests and "marketing types" to
> politicians.


What's the principal principle to be observed in this principality?

Steve Holden
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Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

[Andy Robinson]

On 6 December 2016 at 12:58, Steve Holden  wrote:
>
>
> What's the principal principle to be observed in this principality?

Newton's "Principia", I would imagine
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Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

[Adam Johnson]

Participating in this grammatical buffoonery is against my... values.

On 6 December 2016 at 13:02, Andy Robinson  wrote:

> On 6 December 2016 at 12:58, Steve Holden  wrote:
> >
> >
> > What's the principal principle to be observed in this principality?
>
> Newton's "Principia", I would imagine
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-- 
Adam
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Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

[Roger Gammans]

If your set of Prinicpia is Russell's not Newton's you may not
have simple values.

On Tue, 2016-12-06 at 13:10 +, Adam Johnson wrote:
> Participating in this grammatical buffoonery is against my... values.
> 
> On 6 December 2016 at 13:02, Andy Robinson 
> wrote:
> > On 6 December 2016 at 12:58, Steve Holden 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > What's the principal principle to be observed in this
> > principality?
> > 
> > Newton's "Principia", I would imagine
> > ___
> > python-uk mailing list
> > python-uk@python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Adam
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Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

[Nicholas H.Tollervey]

On 06/12/16 13:20, Roger Gammans wrote:
> If your set of Prinicpia is Russell's not Newton's you may not
> have simple values.

Our principal aim is to express a complete and consistent set of
misspelled principles.



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Re: [python-uk] python-uk Digest, Vol 160, Issue 6

[Sophie Hendley]

Thanks for this guys, I am Dyslexic and occasionally I make mistakes.

Also my name is Sophie not "recruiter".

If anyone is interested in the Principal engineer roles then do get in
touch.

my email is sophie.hend...@digvis.co.uk

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 1:10 PM,  wrote:

> Send python-uk mailing list submissions to
> python-uk@python.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> python-uk-requ...@python.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> python-uk-ow...@python.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of python-uk digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>1. Re:  2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to ?95k
>   (Matthew Webber)
>2. Re:  2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to ?95k
>   (Nicholas H.Tollervey)
>3. Re:  2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to ?95k
>   (Andy Robinson)
>4. Re:  2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to ?95k
>   (Nicholas H.Tollervey)
>5. Re:  2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to ?95k
>   (Steve Holden)
>6. Re:  2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to ?95k
>   (Andy Robinson)
>7. Re:  2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to ?95k
>   (Adam Johnson)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2016 11:53:19 +
> From: Matthew Webber 
> To: UK Python Users 
> Subject: Re: [python-uk]  2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to
> ?95k
> Message-ID:
>  mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> >
> > As a warning to others, I think you might not have wanted to reply to the
> > list ;)
> >
>
> He probably did. It was a subtle dig at the recruiter mixing up "principle"
> and "principal".
>
> Share and enjoy.
> Matthew
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-uk/
> attachments/20161206/e8f90535/attachment-0001.html>
>
> --
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2016 12:01:53 +
> From: "Nicholas H.Tollervey" 
> To: python-uk@python.org
> Subject: Re: [python-uk]  2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to
> ?95k
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> On 06/12/16 11:53, Matthew Webber wrote:
> > He probably did. It was a subtle dig at the recruiter mixing up
> > "principle" and "principal".
>
> How do you know they don't want a philosopher/Pythonista..? Having
> principles is important y'know... ;-)
>
> -- next part --
> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> Name: signature.asc
> Type: application/pgp-signature
> Size: 455 bytes
> Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
> URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-uk/
> attachments/20161206/5c06c2b1/attachment-0001.sig>
>
> --
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2016 12:31:45 +
> From: Andy Robinson 
> To: UK Python Users 
> Subject: Re: [python-uk]  2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to
> ?95k
> Message-ID:
>  g_ka...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> On 6 December 2016 at 12:01, Nicholas H.Tollervey  wrote:
> > How do you know they don't want a philosopher/Pythonista..? Having
> > principles is important y'know... ;-)
>
> Yes, but if the job involves "engineering" peoples' principles, it's a
> bit worrying.
>
> - Andy
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2016 12:35:18 +
> From: "Nicholas H.Tollervey" 
> To: python-uk@python.org
> Subject: Re: [python-uk]  2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to
> ?95k
> Message-ID: <36b90ff0-ae1b-a4f6-77b3-22dd2458b...@ntoll.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> On 06/12/16 12:31, Andy Robinson wrote:
> > Yes, but if the job involves "engineering" peoples' principles, it's a
> > bit worrying.
>
> Depending on your level of cynicism that could apply to all sorts of
> professions: from teachers via priests and "marketing types" to
> politicians.
>
> -- next part --
> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> Name: signat

Re: [python-uk] python-uk Digest, Vol 160, Issue 6

[Nicholas H.Tollervey]

Sophie,

I can only but apologise for any offence this exchange may have caused.
:-( The Python community can do better than this.

Sorry.

N.

On 06/12/16 14:14, Sophie Hendley wrote:
> Thanks for this guys, I am Dyslexic and occasionally I make mistakes. 
> 
> Also my name is Sophie not "recruiter".
> 
> If anyone is interested in the Principal engineer roles then do get in
> touch. 
> 
> my email is sophie.hend...@digvis.co.uk <mailto:sophie.hend...@digvis.co.uk>
> 
> On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 1:10 PM,  <mailto:python-uk-requ...@python.org>> wrote:
> 
> Send python-uk mailing list submissions to
> python-uk@python.org <mailto:python-uk@python.org>
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
> <https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk>
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> python-uk-requ...@python.org
> <mailto:python-uk-requ...@python.org>
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> python-uk-ow...@python.org <mailto:python-uk-ow...@python.org>
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of python-uk digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>1. Re:  2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to ?95k
>   (Matthew Webber)
>2. Re:  2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to ?95k
>   (Nicholas H.Tollervey)
>3. Re:  2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to ?95k
>   (Andy Robinson)
>4. Re:  2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to ?95k
>   (Nicholas H.Tollervey)
>5. Re:  2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to ?95k
>   (Steve Holden)
>6. Re:  2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to ?95k
>   (Andy Robinson)
>7. Re:  2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to ?95k
>   (Adam Johnson)
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2016 11:53:19 +
> From: Matthew Webber  <mailto:matt...@unsolvable.org>>
> To: UK Python Users mailto:python-uk@python.org>>
> Subject: Re: [python-uk]  2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to
> ?95k
> Message-ID:
>
>  
> <mailto:cafqnb9mh0ooq_o1%2bmhbs5%2bvzuw8rdxmc4765kb5xyygfdtt...@mail.gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> >
> > As a warning to others, I think you might not have wanted to reply
> to the
> > list ;)
> >
> 
> He probably did. It was a subtle dig at the recruiter mixing up
> "principle"
> and "principal".
> 
> Share and enjoy.
> Matthew
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> 
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-uk/attachments/20161206/e8f90535/attachment-0001.html
> 
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-uk/attachments/20161206/e8f90535/attachment-0001.html>>
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2016 12:01:53 +
> From: "Nicholas H.Tollervey" mailto:nt...@ntoll.org>>
> To: python-uk@python.org <mailto:python-uk@python.org>
> Subject: Re: [python-uk]  2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to
> ?95k
> Message-ID:  <mailto:db09c4fd-f852-9e81-628d-52f4433f6...@ntoll.org>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> 
> On 06/12/16 11:53, Matthew Webber wrote:
> > He probably did. It was a subtle dig at the recruiter mixing up
> > "principle" and "principal".
> 
> How do you know they don't want a philosopher/Pythonista..? Having
> principles is important y'know... ;-)
> 
> -- next part --
> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> Name: signature.asc
> Type: application/pgp-signature
> Size: 455 bytes
> Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
> URL:
> 
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-uk/attachments/20161206/5c06c2b1/attachment-0001.sig
> 
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-uk/attachments/20161206/5c06c2b1/attachment-0001.sig>>
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2016 12:31:45 +
> From: Andy Robinson mailto:a...@report

Re: [python-uk] python-uk Digest, Vol 160, Issue 6

[Steve Holden]

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 2:14 PM, Sophie Hendley 
wrote:

> Thanks for this guys, I am Dyslexic and occasionally I make mistakes.
>
> Also my name is Sophie not "recruiter".
>
> If anyone is interested in the Principal engineer roles then do get in
> touch.
>
> my email is sophie.hend...@digvis.co.uk
>

 I hope you don't feel too offended by our fun. I'm a bit dyslexic myself,
so I'm used to people assuming I'm a bit dim. Good luck in the Shine Night
Walk!

regards
 Steve

Steve Holden
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Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

[David Wilson]

While I quite enjoyed this thread and, especially considering the
recruiter's followup, it appears to have somewhat been in bad taste.

I can't speak for others, but I'm in my mid 30s and regularly confuse
license/licence, prescribe/proscribe and without doubt a bunch more,
either through finger memory or plain old thinko. It would not be
without embarrassment to have strangers publicly ridicule such errors,
especially in a professional context as occurred here.

This is a minor incident, but it's from a class where the underlying
insensitivity has forced other communities to grow a Code of Conduct,
therefore perhaps it's worth taking a little pause to reflect on it.


David

On Tue, Dec 06, 2016 at 01:57:00PM +, Nicholas H.Tollervey wrote:
> On 06/12/16 13:20, Roger Gammans wrote:
> > If your set of Prinicpia is Russell's not Newton's you may not
> > have simple values.
> 
> Our principal aim is to express a complete and consistent set of
> misspelled principles.
> 



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Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

[Steve Holden]

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 2:41 PM, David Wilson  wrote:

> This is a minor incident, but it's from a class where the underlying
> insensitivity has forced other communities to grow a Code of Conduct,
> therefore perhaps it's worth taking a little pause to reflect on it.
>

+1

A little innocent fun is OK, but when it runs the risk of being hurtful
it's probably gone far enough. It would be horrible if the Python community
got a name for being snide.

S

Steve Holden
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Re: [python-uk] python-uk Digest, Vol 160, Issue 6

[Matthew Webber]

>> Also my name is Sophie not "recruiter".
Hi Sophie,
My apologies for any offence caused by my part in this.
In fact in my original message, when I said "recruiter" rather than your
name, it was because I didn't want to make it personal. Guess I should have
thought it through a little more!
Matthew
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Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

[Richard Smith]

On Tue, 6 Dec 2016 at 14:59 Steve Holden  wrote:

> +1
>
> A little innocent fun is OK, but when it runs the risk of being hurtful
> it's probably gone far enough. It would be horrible if the Python community
> got a name for being snide.
>

 +1

While I didn't post, I considered making something of a contribution, which
was, in hindsight not going to be a positive contribution.

However, lets not forget what the original post was, which is spam. I
object to having that kind of content in my mailbox (have subsequently
added the OP to my shitlist in GApps).

Dyslexia or not, the content of the opportunities that was advertised were
not of acceptable standard:

 - no salary definitions
 - no explanation of benefits
 - nothing but a technology stack as way of skills requirements which is
next to pointless
 - no info on precise location in London
 - naught but a slightly vague title
 - a salary carrot on a long stick (the "up to £95k").

It was clear from the OPs post that no thought was put into making the post
and that her intention was simply to float it out there to get some fish
biting.

Had Sophie made an effort, perhaps I might have been more accommodating. As
it stands, I've no interest in dealing with lazy recruitment agents.

 ~ Rich
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Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

[Tom Wright]

Perhaps replying immediately doesn't count as pause, but I hope this
constitutes thought.

I would make three points:

I. The tone of the response may in part be due to the recruitment topic
more than anything else. This is unfortunately a rather fraught subject.
Bulk recruitment ads are so common  it is unsurprising that people would
view them as a piece of text rather than a correspondence with a real
person.

II. I suspect that many readers do not view this list as for communication
that requires "professional" standards. And might view the imposition of
professionalism in this context as problematic.

This represents the key conflict at the heart of codes of conduct: in-group
behaviour that can be damagingly exclusionary, versus the imposition of
strict rules that impinge upon an informal setting.

III. I don't know if the guidance on this list for jobs posts is
particularly clear, and if I am not mistaken is mostly held in people's
heads. An unfortunate side effect of no clearly defined rules is that the
informal rules can be unforced rather unfriendlily.

On 6 Dec 2016 1:46 p.m., "David Wilson"  wrote:

> While I quite enjoyed this thread and, especially considering the
> recruiter's followup, it appears to have somewhat been in bad taste.
>
> I can't speak for others, but I'm in my mid 30s and regularly confuse
> license/licence, prescribe/proscribe and without doubt a bunch more,
> either through finger memory or plain old thinko. It would not be
> without embarrassment to have strangers publicly ridicule such errors,
> especially in a professional context as occurred here.
>
> This is a minor incident, but it's from a class where the underlying
> insensitivity has forced other communities to grow a Code of Conduct,
> therefore perhaps it's worth taking a little pause to reflect on it.
>
>
> David
>
> On Tue, Dec 06, 2016 at 01:57:00PM +, Nicholas H.Tollervey wrote:
> > On 06/12/16 13:20, Roger Gammans wrote:
> > > If your set of Prinicpia is Russell's not Newton's you may not
> > > have simple values.
> >
> > Our principal aim is to express a complete and consistent set of
> > misspelled principles.
> >
>
>
>
> > ___
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> > python-uk@python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
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Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

[Steve Holden]

Yes, it's a pity the more rational feedback didn't come first, but knees do
tend to jerk at recruitment communications.  S

Steve Holden

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 3:29 PM, Tom Wright  wrote:

> Perhaps replying immediately doesn't count as pause, but I hope this
> constitutes thought.
>
> I would make three points:
>
> I. The tone of the response may in part be due to the recruitment topic
> more than anything else. This is unfortunately a rather fraught subject.
> Bulk recruitment ads are so common  it is unsurprising that people would
> view them as a piece of text rather than a correspondence with a real
> person.
>
> II. I suspect that many readers do not view this list as for communication
> that requires "professional" standards. And might view the imposition of
> professionalism in this context as problematic.
>
> This represents the key conflict at the heart of codes of conduct:
> in-group behaviour that can be damagingly exclusionary, versus the
> imposition of strict rules that impinge upon an informal setting.
>
> III. I don't know if the guidance on this list for jobs posts is
> particularly clear, and if I am not mistaken is mostly held in people's
> heads. An unfortunate side effect of no clearly defined rules is that the
> informal rules can be unforced rather unfriendlily.
>
> On 6 Dec 2016 1:46 p.m., "David Wilson"  wrote:
>
>> While I quite enjoyed this thread and, especially considering the
>> recruiter's followup, it appears to have somewhat been in bad taste.
>>
>> I can't speak for others, but I'm in my mid 30s and regularly confuse
>> license/licence, prescribe/proscribe and without doubt a bunch more,
>> either through finger memory or plain old thinko. It would not be
>> without embarrassment to have strangers publicly ridicule such errors,
>> especially in a professional context as occurred here.
>>
>> This is a minor incident, but it's from a class where the underlying
>> insensitivity has forced other communities to grow a Code of Conduct,
>> therefore perhaps it's worth taking a little pause to reflect on it.
>>
>>
>> David
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 06, 2016 at 01:57:00PM +, Nicholas H.Tollervey wrote:
>> > On 06/12/16 13:20, Roger Gammans wrote:
>> > > If your set of Prinicpia is Russell's not Newton's you may not
>> > > have simple values.
>> >
>> > Our principal aim is to express a complete and consistent set of
>> > misspelled principles.
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> > ___
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>>
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Re: [python-uk] python-uk Digest, Vol 160, Issue 9

[Sophie Hendley]

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

They are both genuinely excellent positions for the right person. Of course
I have lots more info on both roles for anyone who is interested or wishes
to recommend someone.

@Steve thanks for your detailed response- will take this onboard

Have a good evening all!

Sophie

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 4:49 PM,  wrote:

> Send python-uk mailing list submissions to
> python-uk@python.org
>
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> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of python-uk digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>1. Re: python-uk Digest, Vol 160, Issue 6 (Matthew Webber)
>2. Re:  2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to ?95k
>   (Richard Smith)
>3. Re:  2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to ?95k (Tom Wright)
>4. Re:  2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to ?95k
>   (Steve Holden)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2016 15:12:03 +
> From: Matthew Webber 
> To: UK Python Users 
> Subject: Re: [python-uk] python-uk Digest, Vol 160, Issue 6
> Message-ID:
>  gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> >> Also my name is Sophie not "recruiter".
> Hi Sophie,
> My apologies for any offence caused by my part in this.
> In fact in my original message, when I said "recruiter" rather than your
> name, it was because I didn't want to make it personal. Guess I should have
> thought it through a little more!
> Matthew
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-uk/
> attachments/20161206/29658f00/attachment-0001.html>
>
> --
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2016 15:20:36 +
> From: Richard Smith 
> To: UK Python Users 
> Subject: Re: [python-uk]  2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to
> ?95k
> Message-ID:
>  mgen4x...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> On Tue, 6 Dec 2016 at 14:59 Steve Holden  wrote:
>
> > +1
> >
> > A little innocent fun is OK, but when it runs the risk of being hurtful
> > it's probably gone far enough. It would be horrible if the Python
> community
> > got a name for being snide.
> >
>
>  +1
>
> While I didn't post, I considered making something of a contribution, which
> was, in hindsight not going to be a positive contribution.
>
> However, lets not forget what the original post was, which is spam. I
> object to having that kind of content in my mailbox (have subsequently
> added the OP to my shitlist in GApps).
>
> Dyslexia or not, the content of the opportunities that was advertised were
> not of acceptable standard:
>
>  - no salary definitions
>  - no explanation of benefits
>  - nothing but a technology stack as way of skills requirements which is
> next to pointless
>  - no info on precise location in London
>  - naught but a slightly vague title
>  - a salary carrot on a long stick (the "up to ?95k").
>
> It was clear from the OPs post that no thought was put into making the post
> and that her intention was simply to float it out there to get some fish
> biting.
>
> Had Sophie made an effort, perhaps I might have been more accommodating. As
> it stands, I've no interest in dealing with lazy recruitment agents.
>
>  ~ Rich
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-uk/
> attachments/20161206/3531b3c4/attachment-0001.html>
>
> --
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2016 15:29:35 +
> From: Tom Wright 
> To: UK Python Users 
> Subject: Re: [python-uk]  2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to
> ?95k
> Message-ID:
>  mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Perhaps replying immediately doesn't count as pause, but I hope this
> constitutes thought.
>
> I would make three points:
>
> I. The tone of the response may in part be due to the recruitment topic
> more than anything else. This is unfortunately a rather fraught subject.
> Bulk recruitment ads are so common  it is unsurpri

Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

[John Lee]

On Tue, 6 Dec 2016, Steve Holden wrote:


On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Nicholas H.Tollervey 
wrote:


On 06/12/16 12:31, Andy Robinson wrote:

Yes, but if the job involves "engineering" peoples' principles, it's a
bit worrying.


Depending on your level of cynicism that could apply to all sorts of
professions: from teachers via priests and "marketing types" to
politicians.



What's the principal principle to be observed in this principality?


Now everybody's friends again, I feel I can get away with adding:

There actually is a "principal principle" in the philosophy of probability 
(and therefore arguably in physics):


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probability_interpretations#cite_note-SEPIP-1

and here is a video that agrees it stems from a real problem in physics, 
but is the wrong solution to that problem (you can tell from the title 
what his proposed solution is :-):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfzSE4Hoxbc
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Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

[PyUK]

On 07/12/16 04:20, Richard Smith wrote:

On Tue, 6 Dec 2016 at 14:59 Steve Holden mailto:st...@holdenweb.com>> wrote:
+1
A little innocent fun is OK, but when it runs the risk of being
hurtful it's probably gone far enough. It would be horrible if the
Python community got a name for being snide.



 +1

While I didn't post, I considered making something of a contribution,
which was, in hindsight not going to be a positive contribution.

However, lets not forget what the original post was, which is spam. I
object to having that kind of content in my mailbox (have subsequently
added the OP to my shitlist in GApps).

Dyslexia or not, the content of the opportunities that was advertised
were not of acceptable standard:

 - no salary definitions
 - no explanation of benefits
 - nothing but a technology stack as way of skills requirements which is
next to pointless
 - no info on precise location in London
 - naught but a slightly vague title
 - a salary carrot on a long stick (the "up to £95k").

It was clear from the OPs post that no thought was put into making the
post and that her intention was simply to float it out there to get some
fish biting.

Had Sophie made an effort, perhaps I might have been more accommodating.
As it stands, I've no interest in dealing with lazy recruitment agents.



I join the sardonic amusement.

Despite Steve's (all too correct) sympathy expressed, I'm still on the 
'disappointed' side of the ledger because almost any 'advice' one reads 
for applicants writing/responding to agencies and potential employers 
includes stern (or lofty) advice about spell-checking, grammar-checking, 
sanity-checking, etc, etc. Do as I say, and not as I do?


Respect to the OP for responding in civil fashion!

Marks-off for not addressing the (above) list specifications (which 
again, given that you wouldn't want a non-Python person applying for 
such tasks and would immediately question if (s)he had read the advert 
properly?) Et tu Brute?


Strike three, as my American friends would say, was that said-reply will 
not be threaded with the rest of the email conversation. Any more than 
the OP is likely to connect an application entitled "Programmer skilled 
in interfacing C++ to COBOL" with these positions...



Sophie: you won't make these mistakes again, but I hope you will return 
with news of future opportunities. Meantime, how about reading-up on the 
technical aspects (per above), and then seeking to rebuild relationships 
by offering to host a local Python gathering, sponsor pizza at the next 
Python dojo, or similar?

(yes, we're that simple/easy to please!)


--
Regards,
=dn
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Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

[Daniele Procida]

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016, Richard Smith  wrote:

>However, lets not forget what the original post was, which is spam. I
>object to having that kind of content in my mailbox (have subsequently
>added the OP to my shitlist in GApps).

It wasn't spam. We have discussed several times whether recruitment messages 
are welcome here. To date, we've not come to any consensus that they are not.

>It was clear from the OPs post that no thought was put into making the post
>and that her intention was simply to float it out there to get some fish
>biting.
>
>Had Sophie made an effort, perhaps I might have been more accommodating. As
>it stands, I've no interest in dealing with lazy recruitment agents.

This is rudeness bordering on abuse, and it's definitely not acceptable on this 
email list.

Daniele

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