Re: [python-uk] [pyconuk] Python-UK Google Plus Community

[Jonathan Hartley]

On 11/12/2012 09:02, Mike Sandford wrote:

On Mon, 2012-12-10 at 21:08 +, Russel Winder wrote:

For me the problem is not Google, the problem is that it is a forum. A
forum is a place you have to go to to find out what is happening. Some
people like this. I want interaction to come to me. In particular it
needs to be in my email.  Google has this idea that if you sign up for
email notifications, you get notified of the presence of an event, you
still have to go to the forum to discover the content of the
contribution.

Nicely put. I've been on some places where notifications come in and you
have to click through (and possibly sign in!) and after a bit that extra
step becomes do it later, and do it later turns into never. An email I
can scan and decide pretty much immediately. And then delete it.

That last point is important. I get to manage my own interaction.

Mike S.

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Nobody has proposed replacing the mailing list, or changing it in any way.

Somebody just started a G+ community as well, and thought you all might 
like to know.


Hugs,

Jonathan

--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made of meat.   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley

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[python-uk] Python Developers - ReportLab, Wimbledon, London

[Andy Robinson]

ReportLab are one of oldest Python firms in the UK.  We are looking
for high-calibre individuals to join us in Wimbledon (South-West
London), UK, for immediate start.

Reportlab offers a chance to work on world-beating technology with
very high quality mentors, a first class customer base and enormous
potential for growth.   We are looking for people who are smart, get
things done and are good team players.  We will consider people with
extensive experience, as well as those at the start of their careers.

All of the following skills are of interest - although we don't expect
anyone to have all of them:

* Python programming - or evidence of ability to learn multiple languages
* Good analysis skills - the ability to listen to customers, figure
out where the value lies, and help decide what to build in the first
place
* Understanding of web frameworks, databases, XML
* CSS and HTML
* Javascript programming
* Have the common sense to know when coding is NOT the answer and the
ability to communicate clearly with non-programmers
* Common practices in agile, open-source-style development
* Ubuntu or similar sysadmin experience
* Design skills (web and/or print)
* Mobile development (HTML5/tablet/handheld)

Our work covers the full stack from front-end through to server-side
development, in a modern open source environment. We use Python,
Django and MySQL on all common platforms, jquery and similar libraries
for rich interfaces, as well as our own products for PDF generation.
In 2013 we expect to be working on..
* hosted systems to generate personalised documents and data graphics
for clients
* an exciting SAAS offering
* our open source and commercial PDF libraries, used by thousands worldwide
* major web applications for financial clients, including mobile development

We are based in Wimbledon Village, in one of the nicest corners of
London, with beautiful views and just 200m from Wimbledon Common.  If
you want to avoid the London commute, there are numerous options
nearby.  We also have showers and changing facilities on site and are
just 200m from the common, for those who seek a healthy lifestyle.


Salary range is £20k-£35k depending on experience.

Please email a CV to vacanc...@reportlab.com.  If you email me
directly, you have failed in our trademarked "can this person follow
simple instructions?" rapid screening process.

If you don't have a CV up to date but are interested, please drop a
note anyway as we will be interviewing before Christmas.

Strictly no agencies, please.  We will only talk to direct applicants.


Best Regards,


-- 
Andy Robinson
Managing Director
ReportLab Europe Ltd.
Thornton House, Thornton Road, Wimbledon, London SW19 4NG, UK
Tel +44-20-8405-6420
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Re: [python-uk] [pyconuk] Python-UK Google Plus Community

[Martin P. Hellwig]

On 11 December 2012 10:48, Jonathan Hartley  wrote:

> On 11/12/2012 09:02, Mike Sandford wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 2012-12-10 at 21:08 +, Russel Winder wrote:
>>
>>> For me the problem is not Google, the problem is that it is a forum. A
>>> forum is a place you have to go to to find out what is happening. Some
>>> people like this. I want interaction to come to me. In particular it
>>> needs to be in my email.  Google has this idea that if you sign up for
>>> email notifications, you get notified of the presence of an event, you
>>> still have to go to the forum to discover the content of the
>>> contribution.
>>>
>> Nicely put. I've been on some places where notifications come in and you
>> have to click through (and possibly sign in!) and after a bit that extra
>> step becomes do it later, and do it later turns into never. An email I
>> can scan and decide pretty much immediately. And then delete it.
>>
>> That last point is important. I get to manage my own interaction.
>>
>> Mike S.
>>
>> __**_
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>> pyco...@python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/pyconuk
>>
>>
> Nobody has proposed replacing the mailing list, or changing it in any way.
>
> Somebody just started a G+ community as well, and thought you all might
> like to know.
>
> Hugs,
>
> Jonathan
>
>
> --
> Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
> Made of meat.   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley
>
>
> And that somebody being me :-)
Indeed it is not meant to replace *your* choice of communication, however I
felt that there are a lot of people who prefer another form of
communication, like google community pages. I do have in mind that I try
not to fragment the uk python community any more as it already  is and I do
want to be held responsible for being a good community admin.
Tim Golden did suggest a bi-directional link, however I feel that this
might not be beneficial in the amount of +1's and me-too's I expect to
occur. However I'll try bridging it manual by posting stuff that is on this
list also on the community page and vice verse if appropriate.

I do feel that the community page is growing quite nicely as in the three
days of existence we have just over 100 members.


Kind regards,

Martin P. Hellwig
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Re: [python-uk] Python Developers - ReportLab, Wimbledon, London

[Andy Robinson]

On 11 December 2012 10:51, Andy Robinson  wrote:
> We are looking for people who are smart, get
> things done and are good team players.


For all employers out there  my HR guru goes to all the seminars
on employment law, and is very current on what we can and cannot do.
She has told me that our latest round of ads are wrong because
explicitly asking for SMART people is discriminatory against THICK
people.   You can ask about skills, but not about innate
characteristics like age or sex (which we all know), and apparently,
now, brains.

Anyone else heard this kind of total bollocks lately?  ;-)

- Andy
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Re: [python-uk] Python Developers - ReportLab, Wimbledon, London

[Nigel Small]

That makes me want to cry.

On 11 December 2012 11:38, Andy Robinson  wrote:

> On 11 December 2012 10:51, Andy Robinson  wrote:
> > We are looking for people who are smart, get
> > things done and are good team players.
>
>
> For all employers out there  my HR guru goes to all the seminars
> on employment law, and is very current on what we can and cannot do.
> She has told me that our latest round of ads are wrong because
> explicitly asking for SMART people is discriminatory against THICK
> people.   You can ask about skills, but not about innate
> characteristics like age or sex (which we all know), and apparently,
> now, brains.
>
> Anyone else heard this kind of total bollocks lately?  ;-)
>
> - Andy
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Re: [python-uk] Python Developers - ReportLab, Wimbledon, London

[Matt Hamilton]

On 11 Dec 2012, at 11:38, Andy Robinson wrote:

> On 11 December 2012 10:51, Andy Robinson  wrote:
>> We are looking for people who are smart, get
>> things done and are good team players.
> 
> 
> For all employers out there  my HR guru goes to all the seminars
> on employment law, and is very current on what we can and cannot do.
> She has told me that our latest round of ads are wrong because
> explicitly asking for SMART people is discriminatory against THICK
> people.   You can ask about skills, but not about innate
> characteristics like age or sex (which we all know), and apparently,
> now, brains.
> 
> Anyone else heard this kind of total bollocks lately?  ;-)

We just submitted a job ad to a University placement scheme site and there was 
a whole load of info there about what you can and can't say. e.g. you couldn't 
ask for someone 'energetic' as it implied ageism. *facepalm* I remember a while 
back someone from aUniversity IT dept looking at me in horror at our job 
advert. They said they had to ask *exactly* the same questions of each 
candidate regardless of how the candidate answered or whether relevant or not. 
Seemed to me impossible to actually assess someone's ability or suitability if 
they were that strict.

-Matt

-- 
Matt Hamilton, Technical Director
Netsight Internet Solutions Limited
http://www.netsight.co.uk/matth
Tel: 0117 90 90 90 1 Ext. 15

Registered in England No. 3892180
Registered office: 40 Berkeley Square, Clifton, Bristol, BS8 1HU

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Re: [python-uk] Python Developers - ReportLab, Wimbledon, London

[Andy Robinson]

On 11 December 2012 11:45, Matt Hamilton  wrote:
> We just submitted a job ad to a University placement scheme site and there 
> was a whole load of info there about what you can and can't say. e.g. you 
> couldn't ask for someone 'energetic' as it implied ageism. *facepalm* I 
> remember a while back someone from aUniversity IT dept looking at me in 
> horror at our job advert. They said they had to ask *exactly* the same 
> questions of each candidate regardless of how the candidate answered or 
> whether relevant or not. Seemed to me impossible to actually assess someone's 
> ability or suitability if they were that strict.
>

Brilliant.  I wonder if the same rules apply to students and academics
they interview?
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Re: [python-uk] Python Developers - ReportLab, Wimbledon, London

[Rod Hyde]

Surely it is ageism to imply that energetic implies ageism? In other words,
if a person thinks that energetic implies ageism, then that person has a
preconceived idea of a relationship between energy levels and age,
otherwise they would not have considered such a rule in the first place.

--- Rod




On 11 December 2012 11:48, Andy Robinson  wrote:

> On 11 December 2012 11:45, Matt Hamilton  wrote:
> > We just submitted a job ad to a University placement scheme site and
> there was a whole load of info there about what you can and can't say. e.g.
> you couldn't ask for someone 'energetic' as it implied ageism. *facepalm* I
> remember a while back someone from aUniversity IT dept looking at me in
> horror at our job advert. They said they had to ask *exactly* the same
> questions of each candidate regardless of how the candidate answered or
> whether relevant or not. Seemed to me impossible to actually assess
> someone's ability or suitability if they were that strict.
> >
>
> Brilliant.  I wonder if the same rules apply to students and academics
> they interview?
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Re: [python-uk] Python Developers - ReportLab, Wimbledon, London

[Nigel Small]

Agreed: my father is 63 and far more energetic than me. However, he'd make
a terrible programmer.


On 11 December 2012 12:08, Rod Hyde  wrote:

> Surely it is ageism to imply that energetic implies ageism? In other
> words, if a person thinks that energetic implies ageism, then that person
> has a preconceived idea of a relationship between energy levels and age,
> otherwise they would not have considered such a rule in the first place.
>
> --- Rod
>
>
>
>
> On 11 December 2012 11:48, Andy Robinson  wrote:
>
>> On 11 December 2012 11:45, Matt Hamilton  wrote:
>> > We just submitted a job ad to a University placement scheme site and
>> there was a whole load of info there about what you can and can't say. e.g.
>> you couldn't ask for someone 'energetic' as it implied ageism. *facepalm* I
>> remember a while back someone from aUniversity IT dept looking at me in
>> horror at our job advert. They said they had to ask *exactly* the same
>> questions of each candidate regardless of how the candidate answered or
>> whether relevant or not. Seemed to me impossible to actually assess
>> someone's ability or suitability if they were that strict.
>> >
>>
>> Brilliant.  I wonder if the same rules apply to students and academics
>> they interview?
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Re: [python-uk] Python Developers - ReportLab, Wimbledon, London

[Richard Barran]

On 11 Dec 2012, at 11:38, Andy Robinson  wrote:

> On 11 December 2012 10:51, Andy Robinson  wrote:
>> We are looking for people who are smart, get
>> things done and are good team players.
> 
> 
> For all employers out there  my HR guru goes to all the seminars
> on employment law, and is very current on what we can and cannot do.
> She has told me that our latest round of ads are wrong because
> explicitly asking for SMART people is discriminatory against THICK
> people.   You can ask about skills, but not about innate
> characteristics like age or sex (which we all know), and apparently,
> now, brains.
> 
> Anyone else heard this kind of total bollocks lately?  ;-)

Just say that you meant SMARTLY-DRESSED people :-)

PS Actually, bad idea. You've just dissuaded 95% of the developer population 
from applying for your job.
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[python-uk] Industrial Placement at ARM, Cambridge

[Dan Ros]

Hi,

We have the following upcoming 6-12 month industrial placement vacancy:

http://careers.peopleclick.com/careerscp/client_arm/external/en-us/rssfeed.do?functionName=viewFromLink&jobPostId=9245

The role will be primarily relating to development on our reasonably large
Django web application. This is a paid position.

For more information or to apply, please go via the above URL.

Thanks,

Dan
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Re: [python-uk] Python Developers - ReportLab, Wimbledon, London

[chris . dent]

On Tue, 11 Dec 2012, Richard Barran wrote:


PS Actually, bad idea. You've just dissuaded 95% of the developer
   population from applying for your job.


Is it fair to say that I hope the salary being offered already does
that? Seems really low for near-London.

Actually I have no idea. Is there a well known range for fair and
appropriate salaries for Python devs in the vicinity of London, or
perhaps it is standard to list low, offer high?

Or am I misunderstanding cost of living in London or demand for
devs?

--
Chris Dent   http://burningchrome.com/
[...]
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Re: [python-uk] Python Developers - ReportLab, Wimbledon, London

[Duncan Booth]

On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 12:56 PM,  wrote:

> On Tue, 11 Dec 2012, Richard Barran wrote:
>
>  PS Actually, bad idea. You've just dissuaded 95% of the developer
>>population from applying for your job.
>>
>
> Is it fair to say that I hope the salary being offered already does
> that? Seems really low for near-London.
>
> Actually I have no idea. Is there a well known range for fair and
> appropriate salaries for Python devs in the vicinity of London, or
> perhaps it is standard to list low, offer high?
>
>
Apparently the average Python salary offered in the UK is £52,500
At least, according to this site it is:
http://www.cwjobs.co.uk/salary-checker/average-python-salary
and if you click through to the other tab the South West London average is
£62,500.
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Re: [python-uk] Python Developers - ReportLab, Wimbledon, London

[Jon Ribbens]

On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 11:38:42AM +, Andy Robinson wrote:
> For all employers out there  my HR guru goes to all the seminars
> on employment law, and is very current on what we can and cannot do.
> She has told me that our latest round of ads are wrong because
> explicitly asking for SMART people is discriminatory against THICK
> people.   You can ask about skills, but not about innate
> characteristics like age or sex (which we all know), and apparently,
> now, brains.

That sounds quite unlikely to be true. As far as I am aware,
"thick people" is not a protected group.
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Re: [python-uk] Python Developers - ReportLab, Wimbledon, London

[Ravi Kotecha]

£52k doesn't seem unrealistic but I think it's distorted by the banks &
hedge funds. Wouldn't expect to see a start-up paying that sort of salary
unless it's a betting exchange.

That being said, £25-30k does sound very low for what they're looking for
(full stack Python programmer)


On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 1:27 PM, Duncan Booth <
duncan.bo...@suttoncourtenay.org.uk> wrote:

> On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 12:56 PM,  wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 11 Dec 2012, Richard Barran wrote:
>>
>>  PS Actually, bad idea. You've just dissuaded 95% of the developer
>>>population from applying for your job.
>>>
>>
>> Is it fair to say that I hope the salary being offered already does
>> that? Seems really low for near-London.
>>
>> Actually I have no idea. Is there a well known range for fair and
>> appropriate salaries for Python devs in the vicinity of London, or
>> perhaps it is standard to list low, offer high?
>>
>>
> Apparently the average Python salary offered in the UK is £52,500
> At least, according to this site it is:
> http://www.cwjobs.co.uk/salary-checker/average-python-salary
> and if you click through to the other tab the South West London average is
> £62,500.
>
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Re: [python-uk] [pyconuk] Python-UK Google Plus Community

[Tim Golden]

On 11/12/2012 11:10, Martin P. Hellwig wrote:
> And that somebody being me :-)

And thank you for taking the initiative. As I mentioned before, I have
nothing against Google+ as such, except for the fact that I don't really
go there very often. (Maybe this will be an incentive). The current
showing suggests that there are lots of people who do.

I'm definitely not going to ignore the Google+ community; but every time
I make a foray into Google+ I leave nonplussed. I'm sure it's just me :)

Point taken about the downsides to a two-way channel. I'm sure, if
anyone had enough incentive, that one could arrange a moderated channel
if there really was a need. Perhaps the need won't really emerge.
Meanwhile, as you suggest here -- and there -- anyone who wishes can
cross-post or repost.

TJG
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Re: [python-uk] Python Developers - ReportLab, Wimbledon, London

[James Tarin]

You'll get different numbers depending upon where you look:

http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/jobs/south%20east/python.do

From: Duncan Booth 
mailto:duncan.bo...@suttoncourtenay.org.uk>>
Reply-To: UK Python Users mailto:python-uk@python.org>>
Date: Tuesday, 11 December 2012 13:27
To: UK Python Users mailto:python-uk@python.org>>
Subject: Re: [python-uk] Python Developers - ReportLab, Wimbledon, London

On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 12:56 PM, 
mailto:chris.d...@gmail.com>> wrote:
On Tue, 11 Dec 2012, Richard Barran wrote:

PS Actually, bad idea. You've just dissuaded 95% of the developer
   population from applying for your job.

Is it fair to say that I hope the salary being offered already does
that? Seems really low for near-London.

Actually I have no idea. Is there a well known range for fair and
appropriate salaries for Python devs in the vicinity of London, or
perhaps it is standard to list low, offer high?


Apparently the average Python salary offered in the UK is £52,500
At least, according to this site it is:
http://www.cwjobs.co.uk/salary-checker/average-python-salary
and if you click through to the other tab the South West London average is 
£62,500.
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[python-uk] DjangoCon Europe 2013 call for papers

[Daniele Procida]

DjangoCon Europe http://2013.djangocon.eu will be held in Warsaw from the 
15th-19th May 2013 (three days of talks followed by two of sprints and 
workshops).

The organisers are very pleased to invite members of the Django community to 
submit their talk proposals for the event.

We're looking for Django and Python enthusiasts, pioneers, adventurers and 
anyone else who would like to share their Django achievements and experiments 
with the rest of the community.

We are particularly keen to invite submissions from potential speakers who have 
not previously considered speaking at an event like this - so if you haven't, 
please consider it now!

We really look forward to hearing from you all, and seeing you in Warsaw next 
May. 

For more information, see 
http://blog.djangocircus.com/post/36590674298/call-for-speakers. 

This call for papers closes on January 8th 2013.

Powodzenia!


Daniele, on behalf of the DjangoCon Europe organising committee.

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Re: [python-uk] Python Developers - ReportLab, Wimbledon, London

[Stestagg]

Having just gone through this, I would expect a python role of this nature
to be offered between £35-45 k DOE in London.

There are certainly candidates around who could satisfy all of the stated
requirements, but will be given competitive offers from other people
looking.

I got the impression that python adoption is growing fast right now in the
South of England, so the market is quite competitive

Thanks

Steve

On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 1:55 PM, James Tarin  wrote:

> You'll get different numbers depending upon where you look:
>
> http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/jobs/south%20east/python.do
>
> From: Duncan Booth 
> Reply-To: UK Python Users 
> Date: Tuesday, 11 December 2012 13:27
> To: UK Python Users 
> Subject: Re: [python-uk] Python Developers - ReportLab, Wimbledon, London
>
> On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 12:56 PM,  wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 11 Dec 2012, Richard Barran wrote:
>>
>> PS Actually, bad idea. You've just dissuaded 95% of the developer
>>>population from applying for your job.
>>>
>>
>> Is it fair to say that I hope the salary being offered already does
>> that? Seems really low for near-London.
>>
>> Actually I have no idea. Is there a well known range for fair and
>> appropriate salaries for Python devs in the vicinity of London, or
>> perhaps it is standard to list low, offer high?
>>
>>
> Apparently the average Python salary offered in the UK is £52,500
> At least, according to this site it is:
> http://www.cwjobs.co.uk/salary-checker/average-python-salary
> and if you click through to the other tab the South West London average is
> £62,500.
>
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Re: [python-uk] Python Developers - ReportLab, Wimbledon, London

[Andy Robinson]

As the original poster, this has prompted me to check and I was quite
surprised to see that average salaries have risen by 13% in the last
year alone.

However, to be clear
1. The salaries in these surveys are presumably averaged across all
stages of peoples' 40 year careers
2. We are a fairly small business, we have enough 'old hands' already,
and we are mostly looking for people earlier in their careers
3. We are not looking for any one person with all of those skills,
just saying that those are all skills of interest.
4. Everything is negotiable

Best Regards,

-- 
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Managing Director
ReportLab Europe Ltd.
Thornton House, Thornton Road, Wimbledon, London SW19 4NG, UK
Tel +44-20-8405-6420
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Re: [python-uk] Python Developers - ReportLab, Wimbledon, London

[Russel Winder]

On Tue, 2012-12-11 at 11:38 +, Andy Robinson wrote:
[…]
> For all employers out there  my HR guru goes to all the seminars
> on employment law, and is very current on what we can and cannot do.
> She has told me that our latest round of ads are wrong because
> explicitly asking for SMART people is discriminatory against THICK
> people.   You can ask about skills, but not about innate
> characteristics like age or sex (which we all know), and apparently,
> now, brains.
> 
> Anyone else heard this kind of total bollocks lately?  ;-)

Whilst I appreciate your irritation, and that of many of the responders,
to this reaction of HR. The situation is actually far more subtle than
this simple point about "discrimination". Yes there are stupidities of
political correctness around and public bodies tend to be the worst
perpetrators.

However, the real drive of the diversity legislation is to try and get
employers to focus on the goals and objectives of the job and not on the
traditional CV properties of the candidate: can this person do the job,
not has this person got a 2.1 in computer science. In particular, the
underlying thrust of the legislation not only tries to stop people
discriminating in traditional ways, but also in more subtle ways. For
example, X left the job so Y must be a clone of X to be able to do the
job. A surprisingly common way of getting new people in. 

This is a difficult issue in reality, and whilst the real stupidities
rightly lead to ridicule, it is the good employers that look beyond
these and make use of the opportunities of the legislation, which
actually allow lots of freedoms to circumvent traditional employment
processes. 

-- 
Russel.
=
Dr Russel Winder  t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.win...@ekiga.net
41 Buckmaster Roadm: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: rus...@winder.org.uk
London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder


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Re: [python-uk] [pyconuk] Python-UK Google Plus Community

[Russel Winder]

On Tue, 2012-12-11 at 10:48 +, Jonathan Hartley wrote:
[…]
> Nobody has proposed replacing the mailing list, or changing it in any way.
> 
> Somebody just started a G+ community as well, and thought you all might 
> like to know.

The problem for me is that we now have two communities instead of one.
Sadly it is not feasible to integrate the two in any way.

-- 
Russel.
=
Dr Russel Winder  t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.win...@ekiga.net
41 Buckmaster Roadm: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: rus...@winder.org.uk
London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder


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Re: [python-uk] Python-UK Google Plus Community

[Zeth]

On 10/12/12 20:02, Tony Ibbs wrote:

Hmm. Don't forget that some of us *can't* use google plus, because it won't let 
us use our normal online names (I've been TIbs online since before there was 
such a thing, but that's not good enough for google plus). I'm sure I'm not the 
only one. That shouldn't matter to anyone on this list, of course (my problem, 
etc.), but it needs to be considered if the aim is to *broaden* the community. 
And there are other concerns with all of the social networking sites (google 
plus, facebook, etc.).

Google groups, of course, just (at the moment) need a  valid email address to 
post to them - if you really want something from google, does that provide a 
half-way house? (I've no idea if you can gateway google groups and google plus 
in some transparent manner).

Tibs
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Back in bulletin board and usenet days I tried to only my first name 
online and carried on when I discovered the web.


The practical solution is to just call yourself King Tibs and you are 
sorted :-)

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Re: [python-uk] [pyconuk] Python-UK Google Plus Community

[Zeth]

On 10/12/12 14:32, Martin P. Hellwig wrote:

Hi All,

I now that I have been absent for a number of years on this list, but
now after changing jobs (well I am in the middle of it again), changing
homes and being a daddy (still am) I have come to a point where I can
get more actively involved again.

Since google lately communities introduced , I have started the
Python-UK one, however I hope that I can involve some members on this
list too, especially in the event of conflicts of moderation.

I know that some members do not think too highly about the omnipresent
of google, however I do think it is nicely implemented and can give good
reach out to the community.

You can find it here:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities/109155400666012015869

Kind regards,

Martin P. Hellwig


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Thanks for setting this up Martin.

I just read the mailing list posts about the google+ group so didn't get 
time to read all of the google+ group itself yet.


Regarding the discussion about the differences between this mailing list 
and the new google plus group, apart from the proprietary issue about 
big brother, for me the key difference is that the Google group will 
allow lots of more trivial, specific or tentative discussions. It is not 
normal to tell the mailing list that I made this script or I wrote this 
blog post, but that is quite normal for a google group.


I like this kind of thing, but I understand the negative expressions. I 
think the answer is that if anything genuinely useful bubbles up out of 
the Google Plus group, it should be cross-posted here for the benefit of 
those who want a higher signal to noise ratio.


Best Wishes,
Zeth
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Re: [python-uk] Python-UK Google Plus Community

[Tony Ibbs]

On 10 Dec 2012, at 20:47, Duncan Booth wrote:

> Surely that's more of a "won't" than a "can't"?

OK, true enough.

> Your post to this list has both names clearly displayed

Indeed - I'm posting here to a list where (if anyone knows me!) it might be by 
either name. And it's not something I actually care *desperately* about - I 
like both forms of my name.

> and Google+ would let you do the same albeit by marking your usual name as a 
> nickname
> and it would appear in parentheses exactly as it does on your Facebook 
> profile.

The Facebook account is probably temporary, as I needed it to login to 
something for a project, and there was no workaround.

Anyway, this is not the place for me to talk about my reasons for wanting or 
not wanting a Google+ account, since I'm fairly sure no-one else cares!

> I do agree though that there are many people who simply don't want to give 
> all their personal data to such sites, and that has to be kept in mind when 
> suggesting we all decamp from a mailing list to a community:

This point of Duncan's is probably more relevant to more people.

It's also worth noting that I am an avid used of google code and happily use 
google groups - it's just one policy I object to.

Tibs


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Re: [python-uk] Python Developers - ReportLab, Wimbledon, London

[John Lee]

I won't argue with your logic, but if a group of people use "energetic" to 
mean "young", then that's what it means to them (in some context).  I 
think "energetic" has been a known as a standard job-ad euphemism for some 
time.  Whether it has actually been used widely in that way, I don't know 
-- but there are certainly plenty of people who know that euphemism.


It'd be interesting to see some empirical data on what the effect of this 
kind of thing has been.



John

On Tue, 11 Dec 2012, Rod Hyde wrote:


Surely it is ageism to imply that energetic implies ageism? In other words,
if a person thinks that energetic implies ageism, then that person has a
preconceived idea of a relationship between energy levels and age,
otherwise they would not have considered such a rule in the first place.

--- Rod




On 11 December 2012 11:48, Andy Robinson  wrote:


On 11 December 2012 11:45, Matt Hamilton  wrote:

We just submitted a job ad to a University placement scheme site and

there was a whole load of info there about what you can and can't say. e.g.
you couldn't ask for someone 'energetic' as it implied ageism. *facepalm* I
remember a while back someone from aUniversity IT dept looking at me in
horror at our job advert. They said they had to ask *exactly* the same
questions of each candidate regardless of how the candidate answered or
whether relevant or not. Seemed to me impossible to actually assess
someone's ability or suitability if they were that strict.




Brilliant.  I wonder if the same rules apply to students and academics
they interview?
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Re: [python-uk] [pyconuk] Python-UK Google Plus Community

[John Lee]

On Tue, 11 Dec 2012, Jonathan Hartley wrote:
[...]

Nobody has proposed replacing the mailing list, or changing it in any way.


I don't object (I don't approve either), but: It doesn't change the 
mailing list in the same sense that Tescos opening opposite your local 
corner shop doesn't change the corner shop.  No, not in any way ;-P


(I like Tescos, by the way :-)


Somebody just started a G+ community as well, and thought you all might like 
to know.


I appreciate the info, thanks.


John
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Re: [python-uk] Python Developers - ReportLab, Wimbledon, London

[Andy Robinson]

Russel, I actually had a read of the Equality and Diversity Act 2010.

It defines seven "protected characteristics": age, disability, gender
reassignment, race, religion or belief, sex, sexual orientation,
marriage and civil partnership and pregnancy and maternity.

I cannot find anything in it to say that we can't try to hire smart,
capable people.



- Andy
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Re: [python-uk] Python Developers - ReportLab, Wimbledon, London

[Duncan Booth]

On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 9:07 PM, Andy Robinson  wrote:

> Russel, I actually had a read of the Equality and Diversity Act 2010.
>
> It defines seven "protected characteristics": age, disability, gender
> reassignment, race, religion or belief, sex, sexual orientation,
> marriage and civil partnership and pregnancy and maternity.
>
> I cannot find anything in it to say that we can't try to hire smart,
> capable people.


I think you'll find that 'smart' could be interpreted as discrimination
against people with certain disabilities and that is one of the protected
characteristics.
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[python-uk] Just thanks!

[Álex González]

Hi guys!

It's the first time that I went to the python-uk "confs" (let's call it
some beer between friends) :) But I really enjoyed it! I really like when I
can talk with the people as I knew them from months/lifes ago! I this is
what happened here, I felt really confortable!

I hope to see you in the next one and try to keep the interest in this
amazing framework! :)

PS: I will welcome the people from Zone 1 too! (just kidding, is a joke
that someboy will understand xD)

See you!
-- 
@agonzalezro  or my
blog
Please, don't send me files with extensions: .doc, .docx, .xls, .xlsx, .ppt
and/or .pptx
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