Re: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
"John Bokma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Which standards? W3C doesn't make standards (they talk about working > drafts and recommendations), so nothing to warp there for MS. Umm, a recommendation *is* a standard. And Microsoft must disagree with you. When the spec editor for XML took a consulting gig with Netsacpe, they insisted he be fired. (See http://www.textuality.com/xml/Opinion.html) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
"John Bokma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > "Mike Schilling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> >> "John Bokma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message >> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >>> Which standards? W3C doesn't make standards (they talk about working >>> drafts and recommendations), so nothing to warp there for MS. >> >> Umm, a recommendation *is* a standard. > > No, it's a recommendation, an advise, nothing else. Otherwise they would > call it a standard. Why do you think W3C calls it recommendations? Because > it are no standards. There is an ISO HTML standard though, but when people > babble about HTML standards they talk about W3C *recommendations*. In that sense there are no standards in software. The ISO C++ "standard" and the XML "recommendation" have the same amount of force behind them. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
"John Bokma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > "Mike Schilling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> "John Bokma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message > >>> No, it's a recommendation, an advise, nothing else. Otherwise they >>> would call it a standard. Why do you think W3C calls it >>> recommendations? Because it are no standards. There is an ISO HTML >>> standard though, but when people babble about HTML standards they >>> talk about W3C *recommendations*. >> >> In that sense there are no standards in software. The ISO C++ >> "standard" and the XML "recommendation" have the same amount of force >> behind them. > > Yup, but ISO C++ is a standard, and XML is a recommendation. And the practical difference between the two is That's right, nil. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
"John Bokma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > "Mike Schilling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> "John Bokma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message >> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>> Yup, but ISO C++ is a standard, and XML is a recommendation. >> >> And the practical difference between the two is >> >> That's right, nil. > > If you both read them as a collection of words, you're right. However, as > a > (freelance) programmer, things like this *do* make a difference to me, and > my customers. That is, you assume that files claiming to contain XML documents may actually contain some variant of XML, because that's only a recommendation, while files claiming to contain C++ are all ISO-conformant, because that's a standard? If so, you've got things precisely backwards. C++ compilers that contain extensions or are not quite compliant are everywhere. XML parsers that accept non-well-formed XML are, ASFAIK, non-existent. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
"John Bokma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Roedy Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> On 16 Oct 2005 05:22:47 GMT, John Bokma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote >> or quoted : >> >>>No, it's a recommendation, an advise, nothing else. Otherwise they >>>would call it a standard. Why do you think W3C calls it >>>recommendations? Because it are no standards. There is an ISO HTML >>>standard though, but when people babble about HTML standards they talk >>>about W3C *recommendations*. >> >> What do you think the Internet is based on? RFCs. > > Yup, I know. Hence no standards. > > Like I said: there is ISO HTML, and there is a w3c HTML 4.01 > recommendation. The former is a standard, the latter is a defacto > standard. > For some the difference does matter. What matters in generating HTML is which browsers you want to support and what they understand. Standards and recommendations are both irrelevant. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
"John Bokma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > "Mike Schilling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> >> "John Bokma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message >> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> "Mike Schilling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >>>> "John Bokma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message >>>> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> >>>>> Yup, but ISO C++ is a standard, and XML is a recommendation. >>>> >>>> And the practical difference between the two is >>>> >>>> That's right, nil. >>> >>> If you both read them as a collection of words, you're right. >>> However, as a >>> (freelance) programmer, things like this *do* make a difference to >>> me, and my customers. >> >> That is, you assume that files claiming to contain XML documents may >> actually contain some variant of XML, because that's only a >> recommendation, while files claiming to contain C++ are all >> ISO-conformant, because that's a standard? >> >> If so, you've got things precisely backwards. C++ compilers that >> contain extensions or are not quite compliant are everywhere. XML >> parsers that accept non-well-formed XML are, ASFAIK, non-existent. > > My goodness, re read that again please, and rethink what you really want > to say. I mean "claiming to contain C++". Is that like: all files > claiming to contain HTML are automatically conforming to the ISO HTML > standard? You haven't said why you thinbk "standards" are more valuable than "recommendations". We apparently both agree they're no more likely to be observed, so what is the reason? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
"Mike Meyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > "Mike Schilling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> What matters in generating HTML is which browsers you want to support and >> what they understand. Standards and recommendations are both irrelevant. > > Unless, of course, you want to support any compliant browser. Since no browser I know of is perfectly compliant (e.g. bug-free), that's not a feasible goal. . -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
"John Bokma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > "Mike Schilling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> >> "John Bokma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message >> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> Roedy Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >>>> On 16 Oct 2005 05:22:47 GMT, John Bokma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote >>>> or quoted : >>>> >>>>>No, it's a recommendation, an advise, nothing else. Otherwise they >>>>>would call it a standard. Why do you think W3C calls it >>>>>recommendations? Because it are no standards. There is an ISO HTML >>>>>standard though, but when people babble about HTML standards they >>>>>talk about W3C *recommendations*. >>>> >>>> What do you think the Internet is based on? RFCs. >>> >>> Yup, I know. Hence no standards. >>> >>> Like I said: there is ISO HTML, and there is a w3c HTML 4.01 >>> recommendation. The former is a standard, the latter is a defacto >>> standard. >>> For some the difference does matter. >> >> What matters in generating HTML is which browsers you want to support >> and what they understand. Standards and recommendations are both >> irrelevant. > > So how do you develop a browser? I assume you have some experience with > programming, or is that trial and error programming? Hack until it > works? > A browser that's perfectly compliant but can't render the pages actually found would be of only academic interest. So, yes, the standards (and recommendations) are one source of requirements, but the actual contents of the internet is another. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
"Mike Meyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > "Mike Schilling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> "Mike Meyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message >> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> "Mike Schilling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >>>> What matters in generating HTML is which browsers you want to support >>>> and >>>> what they understand. Standards and recommendations are both >>>> irrelevant. >>> Unless, of course, you want to support any compliant browser. >> Since no browser I know of is perfectly compliant (e.g. bug-free), that's >> not a feasible goal. > > I guess you'd say developing any software isn't a feasible goal, > because it'll never be bug-free, will never have bug-free compilers to > compile it, bug-free linkers to link it, bug-free GUI/db/etc libraries > to link with it, bug-free servers to communicate with, and bug-free > operating systems to run it on. Fortunately, most developers aren't > quite that anal, and realize that you can get useful work done in a > less-than-perfect environment. I'm not speaking theroetically. My company (though not me personally) creates browser-based UIs, and one of the biggest expenses has been dealing with IE rendering bugs Given the market share of IE, the fact that something should work, and even does work in Firefox, Opera, etc, is irrelevant. If it breaks IE, we can't use it. When we've had similar issues with C++ compilers, patches have usually been forthcoming, or perhaps optimization has to be turned off on a few source files. In a few areas, though, the solution has been "Don't do that", and again, the fact that the standard supports it is irrelevant. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
"John Bokma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > "Mike Schilling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> "John Bokma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message > > [ w3c "standard" v.s. ISO ] > >> You haven't said why you thinbk "standards" are more valuable than >> "recommendations". We apparently both agree they're no more likely to be >> observed, so what is the reason? > > That an HTML standard (ISO/IEC 15445:2000) and an HTML recommendation by > w3c (4.01 for example) are two different things, and mixing them up by > calling both standards is a bad thing. Sorry, that's non-responsive. Now, once more, why are standards" *more valuable* than "recommendations"? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
"John Bokma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Roedy Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> On 18 Oct 2005 06:57:47 GMT, John Bokma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote >> or quoted : >> >That an HTML standard (ISO/IEC 15445:2000) and an HTML >recommendation by w3c (4.01 for example) are two different things, >and mixing them up by calling both standards is a bad thing. Because ... what are the consequences? >>> >>>If you mean if you are put in jail for 20 years, and tortured, none. >> >> No. ANY consequences. You have not explained the downside. > > ISO HTML and HTML 4.01 differ. If you were asked to write a validating > parser for the HTML standard, (as in ISO), and you wrote one for HTML 4.01 > (as in recommendation), you made quite a mistake. There are standards that conflict, and also recommendations that conflict. Why is confusing standard A with recommendation P worse than 1. confusing standard A with standard B, or 2. confusing recommendation P with recommendation Q -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
"Mike Meyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > "Mike Schilling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> "Mike Meyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message >> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> "Mike Schilling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >>>> "Mike Meyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message >>>> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> "Mike Schilling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >>>>>> What matters in generating HTML is which browsers you want to support >>>>>> and >>>>>> what they understand. Standards and recommendations are both >>>>>> irrelevant. >>>>> Unless, of course, you want to support any compliant browser. >>>> Since no browser I know of is perfectly compliant (e.g. bug-free), >>>> that's >>>> not a feasible goal. >>> I guess you'd say developing any software isn't a feasible goal, >>> because it'll never be bug-free, will never have bug-free compilers to >>> compile it, bug-free linkers to link it, bug-free GUI/db/etc libraries >>> to link with it, bug-free servers to communicate with, and bug-free >>> operating systems to run it on. Fortunately, most developers aren't >>> quite that anal, and realize that you can get useful work done in a >>> less-than-perfect environment. >> I'm not speaking theroetically. My company (though not me personally) >> creates browser-based UIs, and one of the biggest expenses has been >> dealing >> with IE rendering bugs Given the market share of IE, the fact that >> something should work, and even does work in Firefox, Opera, etc, is >> irrelevant. If it breaks IE, we can't use it. > > Been there, done that, threw out the T-shirt as to ugly to wear. > > Yes, you have to work around bugs in the popular browsers. That hasn't > changed since the first published specs showed up. That doesn't mean > you throw out the standards and only support a trivial set of > browsers. If you're working on a commercial product, it means you support IE (possibly being able to insist on a specific patch level), Foxfire if you can, and ignore the < 1% of the market that won't live with those restrictions. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
"John Bokma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > "Mike Schilling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Now, once more, why are standards" *more valuable* than >> "recommendations"? > > standards are written by internationally recognized independent > organisations, v.s. everyone can write a recommendation. For you, and > others this doesn't matter, for others it does. Why do you think Microsoft > made part of .NET a standard? Marketing. It lets them claim that .NET is open and Java is proprietary. SOAP, which is also part of their "open" story, is a recommendation. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
"Mike Meyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > One alternative, as I've said, is to write to the standards, and then > work around bugs in the popular browsers. If the public whim changes > which browser is most popular - I am not holding my breath. > it only has minimal impact on > you. Should you decide to move into a different market, your existing > development process works with only minor changes. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
"Steven D'Aprano" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Thu, 20 Oct 2005 13:17:14 +, axel wrote: > >> Employees have *no* obligations towards the shareholders of a company. >> They are not employed or paid by the shareholders, they are employed >> by the company itself which is a separate legal entity. >> >> It is a different matter for the board of directors of a company. > > The board of directors are also employees of the company. That's why the > company can fire them. The relationships are a bit more complex than that: The shareholders elect a Board of Directors to represent their interests. The board then hires a management staff, which reports to them. The management staff hires other employees, who report (directly or indirectly) to management. An employee who refuses to act as directed, claiming that he's thinking of the shareholders' interests, can be fired for cause. His only recourse would be to become a shareholder (not hard), and then get the attention of either the board or a large block of shareholders (much harder). If management is actually breaking the law (say by Enron-like looting) rather than simply making decisions he considers suboptimal, he can also go to the authorities, but he does this in his capacity as private citizen; his status as employee gives him no additional rights or responsibilities in this respect. As Axel says, a regular employee has no direct obligations towards the shareholders. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
"David Schwartz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >There is no different to Microsoft beween a bare computer and one > preloaded with Linux or FreeBSD. One can quickly be converted to other > with minimal cost of effort. In the market, bare PCs really do compete > with Windows PCs. There's a huge difference to the non-techy consumer. One of the buggest reasons Linux has had a reputation of being harder to use than Windows was the fact that Linux had to be installed, while Windows just booted up. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
"David Schwartz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Mike Schilling wrote: > >> "David Schwartz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message >> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>There is no different to Microsoft beween a bare computer and one >>> preloaded with Linux or FreeBSD. One can quickly be converted to >>> other with minimal cost of effort. In the market, bare PCs really do >>> compete with Windows PCs. > >> There's a huge difference to the non-techy consumer. One of the >> buggest reasons Linux has had a reputation of being harder to use >> than Windows was the fact that Linux had to be installed, while >> Windows just booted up. > >Is that really true? I mean, I remember distributions of Linux that you > could just stick in the CD, boot from CD, and you were up in minutes. > Installing was as simple as pushing the 'install to hard drive' button. If all of the hardware is known to Linux, that can work, and Linux has gotten much better at being able to recognize and auto-configure lots of devices. But picture that, when this was less true, you wanted to buy a machine with the newest-whizbang graphics card or disk controller. For Windows, the manufacturer would make sure the proper drivers are installed and configured. For Linux, you the consumer had to find a driver, install it, configure it (the phrase "drive geometry" sticks in my head) and deal with the lack of useful feedback if anything goes wrong. I haven't tried to install Windows since Windows 95 was current. I recall that as being pretty horrible, but for different reasons. There was a step where, after the basic OS had been installed onto the hard drive, and it was time to sense other devices. Half the time, this would simply hang the computer, and you'd have to start over from scratch. Most of the rest of the time, it would find most of the devices and make really awful guesses about the rest, like thinking the sound card was a CD player. I suspect this works better these days too. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Jargons of Info Tech industry
"Jürgen Exner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Xah Lee wrote: >> Jargons of Info Tech industry >> >> (A Love of Jargons) >> >> Xah Lee, 2002 Feb >> >> People in the computing field like to spur the use of spurious >> jargons. The less educated they are, the more they like extraneous > [...] > > Just for the records at Google et.al. in case someone stumbles across > Xah's > masterpieces in the future: > Xah is very well known as the resident troll in many NGs and his > 'contributions' are less then useless. He sent a lovely one to some of the language groups the other day, explaining why Jonathan Swift was a poor writer. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Jargons of Info Tech industry
"l v" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Xah Lee wrote: >> (circa 1996), and email should be text only (anti-MIME, circa 1995), > > I think e-mail should be text only. I have both my email and news readers > set to display in plain text only. It prevents the marketeers and > spammers from obtaining feedback that my email address is valid. A > surprising amount of information can be obtained from your computer by > allowing HTML and all of it's baggage when executing on your computer. > Phishing comes to my mind first and it works because people click the link > without looking to see where the link really takes them. A formatting-only subset of HTML would be useful for both e-mail and Usenet posts. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Jargons of Info Tech industry
"Mike Meyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > "Mike Schilling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> "l v" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message >> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> Xah Lee wrote: >>>> (circa 1996), and email should be text only (anti-MIME, circa 1995), >>> >>> I think e-mail should be text only. I have both my email and news >>> readers >>> set to display in plain text only. It prevents the marketeers and >>> spammers from obtaining feedback that my email address is valid. A >>> surprising amount of information can be obtained from your computer by >>> allowing HTML and all of it's baggage when executing on your computer. >>> Phishing comes to my mind first and it works because people click the >>> link >>> without looking to see where the link really takes them. >> >> A formatting-only subset of HTML would be useful for both e-mail and >> Usenet >> posts. > > Used to be people who wanted to send formatted text via email would > use rich text. It never really caught on. But given that most of the > people sending around formatted text are using point-n-click GUIs to > create the stuff, the main advantage of HTML - that it's easy to write > by hand - isn't needed. But the other advantage, that it's an existing and popular standard, remains. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Jargons of Info Tech industry
"CBFalconer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Mike Schilling wrote: >> "Mike Meyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message >>> "Mike Schilling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >>>> "l v" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message >>>>> Xah Lee wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> (circa 1996), and email should be text only (anti-MIME, circa 1995), >>>>> >>>>> I think e-mail should be text only. I have both my email and >>>>> news readers set to display in plain text only. It prevents >>>>> the marketeers and spammers from obtaining feedback that my >>>>> email address is valid. A surprising amount of information >>>>> can be obtained from your computer by allowing HTML and all >>>>> of it's baggage when executing on your computer. Phishing >>>>> comes to my mind first and it works because people click the >>>>> link without looking to see where the link really takes them. >>>> >>>> A formatting-only subset of HTML would be useful for both e-mail >>>> and Usenet posts. >>> >>> Used to be people who wanted to send formatted text via email >>> would use rich text. It never really caught on. But given that >>> most of the people sending around formatted text are using >>> point-n-click GUIs to create the stuff, the main advantage of >>> HTML - that it's easy to write by hand - isn't needed. >> >> But the other advantage, that it's an existing and popular >> standard, remains. > > However, for both e-mail and news, it is totally useless. Useless except in that it can describe formatting, which is what it would be used for? ( > It also > interferes with the use of AsciiArt, Except that it can specify the use of a fixed-width font, which makes Ascii Art work. It can also distinguish between text that can be reformatted for flow and text than can not. So I think you meant to say that it *enables* Ascii Art. > while opening the recipient to > the dangers above. Which is why a formatting-only subset, which doesn't cause any such dangers, is required. As I said above. Another advantage is that evewry internet-enabled computer today already comes with an HTML renderer (AKA browser), so that a message saved to a file can be read very easily. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Jargons of Info Tech industry
"Rich Teer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Thu, 25 Aug 2005, Mike Schilling wrote: > >> Another advantage is that evewry internet-enabled computer today already >> comes with an HTML renderer (AKA browser), so that a message saved to a >> file >> can be read very easily. > > I think you're missing the point: email and Usenet are, historically have > been, and should always be, plain text mediums. Gosh, if you say they should be, there's no point trying to have an intelligent discussion, is there? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Jargons of Info Tech industry
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > "Mike Schilling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> "Rich Teer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message >> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > On Thu, 25 Aug 2005, Mike Schilling wrote: >> > >> >> Another advantage is that evewry internet-enabled computer today >> >> already comes with an HTML renderer (AKA browser), so that a >> >> message saved to a file can be read very easily. >> > >> > I think you're missing the point: email and Usenet are, >> > historically have been, and should always be, plain text mediums. >> >> Gosh, if you say they should be, there's no point trying to have an >> intelligent discussion, is there? > > Errm, isn't that what you're doing as well then? Rich just gave an > opinion, you've been giving an opinion. Rich's opinion happens to have > a lot of history and good reasons behind it. I don't see why it should > be viewed as some kind of discussion ending dogmatism. I see a difference between "X would be useful for A, B, and C" and "Y will always be the only proper way." Don't you? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Jargons of Info Tech industry
"Denis Kasak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Mike Schilling wrote: >> >> I see a difference between "X would be useful for A, B, and C" and "Y >> will always be the only proper way." >> >> Don't you? > > Y would not be useful because of the bandwidth it consumes, the malware it > would introduce, the additional time spent focusing on the format rather > than quality of the content and, frankly, because it's useless. Threaded mail-readers too, screen-based editors , spell-checkers, all useless frills. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Xah Lee network abuse
"Mallor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > I know I'm coming late to the barbeque. In passing, I ask: do you have > an objective, impartial perspective on the subject of committing > crimes? Because libel is a crime. It all depends on whether what you > state about Xah is provably true or not. I'm not aware of any definition of libel that includes "making statements that are not provably true". -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Xah Lee network abuse
"Philippa Cowderoy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Sun, 11 Jun 2006, Mike Schilling wrote: > >> I'm not aware of any definition of libel that includes "making statements >> that are not provably true". >> > > I believe UK law uses one that's close to it. If I were to write, say, that Tony Blair's tax policy will lead to higher deficits, I could be convicted of libel? Even if that's true, it's not a priori provable. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Xah Lee network abuse
"Erik Max Francis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Mike Schilling wrote: > >> If I were to write, say, that Tony Blair's tax policy will lead to higher >> deficits, I could be convicted of libel? Even if that's true, it's not a >> priori provable. > > I think what he was getting at is that, unlike many jurisdictions, writing > something factually true is _not_ in and of itself a defense against a > libel suit in the UK. > > As for the reverse side of the issue, in jurisdictions where it _is_ a > defense, if one were to accuse him of being a pedophile but couldn't prove > it, that would certainly be an actionable offense. In the U.S, for instance, you wouldn't have to prove it. It would be sufficent to demonstrate that there's enough evidence supporting it that you weren't reckless in writing it. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: What are OOP's Jargons and Complexities
Xah Lee wrote:
> So, a simple code like this in normal languages:
>
> a = "a string";
> b = "another one";
> c = join(a,b);
> print c;
>
> or in lisp style
>
> (set a "a string")
> (set b "another one")
> (set c (join a b))
> (print c)
>
> becomes in Java:
>
> public class test {
> public static void main(String[] args) {
> String a = new String("a string");
> String b = new String("another one");
> StringBuffer c = new StringBuffer(40);
> c.append(a); c.append(b);
> System.out.println(c.toString());
> }
> }
>
Only when written by someone almost entirely ignorant of Java.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: What are OOP's Jargons and Complexities
Timofei Shatrov wrote: > On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 06:48:05 GMT, "Mike Schilling" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> tried to confuse everyone with this > message: > >> Xah Lee wrote: >> >>> So, a simple code like this in normal languages: > >>> becomes in Java: >>> >>> >> >> Only when written by someone almost entirely ignorant of Java. >> > > Which is the state most people want to be in... Most of them have the brains not to display their ignorance so widely. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: What are OOP's Jargons and Complexities
bugbear wrote:
> Er. How about
>
> public class test {
> public static void main(String[] args) {
> String a = "a string";
> String b = "another one";
> StringBuffer c = a + b;
String c (etc.), that is.
> System.out.println(c);
> }
> }
--
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Re: OT: Quote ? [was: John Bokma harassment]
"John Bokma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > "Chris Uppal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> [apologies to the whole flaming crowd for sending this to the whole >> flaming crowd...] >> >> Geoffrey Summerhayes wrote: >> >>> After you kill Navarth, will it be nothing but gruff and deedle >>> with a little wobbly to fill in the chinks? >> >> Where does that come from ? It sounds like a quote, and Navarth is a >> Jack Vance name (and /what/ a character), but I don't remember the >> rest of it occurring in Vance. > > Navarth is very present in "the palace of dreams" (Demon princes series) Nitpick: _The Palace of Love_ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Quote ? [was: John Bokma harassment]
"John Bokma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > "Mike Schilling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> >> "John Bokma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message >> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> "Chris Uppal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >>>> [apologies to the whole flaming crowd for sending this to the whole >>>> flaming crowd...] >>>> >>>> Geoffrey Summerhayes wrote: >>>> >>>>> After you kill Navarth, will it be nothing but gruff and deedle >>>>> with a little wobbly to fill in the chinks? >>>> >>>> Where does that come from ? It sounds like a quote, and Navarth is >>>> a Jack Vance name (and /what/ a character), but I don't remember the >>>> rest of it occurring in Vance. >>> >>> Navarth is very present in "the palace of dreams" (Demon princes >>> series) >> >> Nitpick: _The Palace of Love_ > > Aargh! The only excuse I can give for that huge mistake is that I am > currently reading "In the net of dreams" :-( You have another excuse in the last Demon Princes title: _The Book of Dreams_. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: John Bokma harassment
"P.L.Hayes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > I agree. I have already written to Dreamhost and I hope more people > will do so. I have found some of what has been posted here quite > astonishing and the actions of certain people to be reprehensible: by > far the most serious violation of netiquette I see here is this > thoroughly wrong-headed campaign to try to censor Xah by appealing to > his service provider. No one that I know of is trying to censor Xah. It's the form his postings take that cause problems, not the content. > In my opinion it is that, not anything Xah has > done, which comes any where near deserving any sort of termination of > access to the Internet. Bringing facts to their attention? If Dreamhost has given him notice of termination, it's for violating their policies, not because people have told them "I don't like him". > Since Xah's website is hosted by Dreamhost, > the unwarranted censorship will be compounded by an act of gratuitous > vandalism, potentially depriving people of useful resources: He's free to find another ISP and *not* violate their rules. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Xah's Edu Corner: The Concepts and Confusions of Pre-fix, In-fix, Post-fix and Fully Functional Notations
"Roedy Green" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On 17 Mar 2006 00:58:55 -0800, "Fuzzyman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote, > quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said : > >>Hmmm... it displays fine via google groups. Maybe it's the reader which >>is 'non-compliant' ? > I am using Agent. You configure your database with an encoding, > which is by default the platform encoding, not UTF-8. I have just > flipped it over to UTF-8. We'll see if that makes Xah's future UTF-8 > messages more readable. Trust me, it won't help a bit. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Xah's Edu Corner: What is Expressiveness in a Computer Language
"Xah Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >What is Expressiveness in a Computer Language >Xah Lee, 200502, 200603. >In languages human or computer, there's a notion of expressiveness. >English for example, is very expressive in manifestation, witness all >the poetry and implications and allusions and connotations and >dictions. Though at times, English fails to express anything whatsoever. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
