Re: Windows GUIs from Python
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 12:55:42 -0600, Doug Holton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >You might also be interested in PyGUI although it doesn't have a native >Windows implementation yet: >http://nz.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python_gui/ Generally speaking, appart from MFC-style programming with Python32, what are the non-alpha alternatives to write purely Windows apps in Python today, ie. without the weight of extra bagage like wxWidgets? I'm not looking at fancy options, since the apps I write would be fine with just the core Windows widgets along with a few add-ons like a grid and the extended Win95 widgets. Thx Luke. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Windows GUIs from Python
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 22:15:36 +0100, Thomas Heller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Well, venster. Although it is most certainly alpha. But with some >work... Thx, I'll keep an eye on it. http://venster.sourceforge.net/ Luke. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Zen of Python
On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 14:13:47 -0500, Timothy Fitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >While I agree that the Zen of Python is an amazingly concise list of >truisms, I do not see any meaning in: (snip) For those interested, here's the list: http://www.python.org/doc/Humor.html#zen Luke. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: WYSIWYG wxPython "IDE"....?
On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 11:54:08 +0100, Uwe Grauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Most People don't realize, that they have to use the cvs-version >instead. It's rather that most people prefer to use the latest stable version, since stuff under CVS is still under development. Does someone know why the Boa people didn't extract a newer, stable version from CVS? To the OP: This topic comes up about every week, and the conclusion I drew after taking a look, is that Python is not a good solution to build GUI apps, although it's an excellent command-line, text scripting tool. To me, the very fact that the only solution if you don't want to carry a multi-megabyte widget set with you (either wxWidgets or QT is to go the MFC way (which a lot of C developers seem to hate) through PyWin32, and the absence of a really good GUI builder like VB or Delphi shows that it's just not a good solution to build big GUI apps, although good enough for smaller apps like BitTorrent etc. Sad, but true. I guess it just shows that building a GUI development tool like those two takes quite a lot of work, hence money, but there doesn't seem to be a demand high enough to warrant this venture. My conclusion: If you want to write GUI apps that require a very rich interface while keeping the installer small (and raw performance is important), Python is currently not a good solution. YMMV :-) Luke. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: WYSIWYG wxPython "IDE"....?
On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 01:25:06 +1100, Jussi Jumppanen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> To me, the very fact that the only solution if you don't want >> to carry a multi-megabyte widget set with you (either wxWidgets >> or QT is to go the MFC way (which a lot of C developers seem >> to hate) through > >Have you ever tried to use MFC in anything other than a >simple application? ... which is why I said that the alternative of using PyWin32 didn't sound like a lot of fun :-) Luke. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Big development in the GUI realm
On Mon, 7 Feb 2005 18:30:18 +0100, Michael Goettsche <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Not 100% right. Only drivers for commercial databases will not be included, >mysql and co. are available. What I find weird, is that I always understood the GPL meaning that you must give back any contribution you made to the source code of the GPLed code, but not if you're just using either a binary distribution (eg. a DLL) or if you copy/pasted the code as is, with no changes on your own. If this is true, then the fact that Qt is now GPLed for Windows means that I should be able to use this widget set even in commercial apps since I'm not making any change to Qt, just using it. Am I totally off-target? Cheers Luke. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Big development in the GUI realm
On Mon, 7 Feb 2005 19:41:11 +0100, "Fredrik Lundh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Am I totally off-target? > >yes. for details, see the "Combining work with code released under the >GPL" section on this page: Mmmm.. The FAQ isn't very clear about whether it's allowed to write a proprietary EXE that calls a GPLed DLL: "However, in many cases you can distribute the GPL-covered software alongside your proprietary system. To do this validly, you must make sure that the free and non-free programs communicate at arms length, that they are not combined in a way that would make them effectively a single program. The difference between this and "incorporating" the GPL-covered software is partly a matter of substance and partly form. The substantive part is this: if the two programs are combined so that they become effectively two parts of one program, then you can't treat them as two separate programs. So the GPL has to cover the whole thing." Considering the fact that the Qt DLL exist by themselves, that the version used is the one provided by Qt, and that the EXE uses a standard, open way to communicate with it, the above does seem to say this use would be valid. Anybody knows of a similar case and the output? Luke. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Big development in the GUI realm
On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 07:57:51 +1100, Tim Churches <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Thus, it seems to me, and to the expert legal advice which we sought >(note the scope of the advice was Australian law only) that provided no >GLPed source or object code is mixed, included or combined with >non-GPLed code, and that the GPLed and non-GPLed code are distributed or >otherwise made available in packages which are very clearly separate >works, and that any interaction between the two is restricted to >runtime, then the GPL does not require that non-GPLed code to be >distributed under the GPL. That's how I understood things, ie. calling a standard, clearly independent (ie. EXE or DLL) binary downloaded from the project's web site and just calling it is not covered by the GPL since no change has been made whatsoever to the original work. Which makes sense, since the goal of the GPL is to make sure that no one can steal the code, correct bugs or add features without redistributing those changes. Muddy waters, indeed :-) Luke. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Big development in the GUI realm
On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 10:47:25 +1100, Tim Churches <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >So there you have it: there must be some portion of the GPLed Program >contained in >the other work for it to fall under the scope of the GPL, and/or as defined as >a >derivative work in local copyright law (local because the GPL does not >nominate a >particular jurisdiction for covering law). Has someone worked with Qt for Windows before, and could tell us whether it involves static or dynamic linking? If dynamic, then, it doesn't make sense that an EXE that builds on Qt should also be GPLed. Luke. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Big development in the GUI realm
On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 17:47:30 -0800, Robert Kern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Now, that's not to say that they are correct in their interpretation of >the GPL's terms. In fact, if I had to bet on an outcome, I'd probably >wager that the court would hold that only static linking would force the >program as a whole to follow the GPL terms. However, I certainly don't >have the money to pony up to run a test case. Consequently, I try to >follow the wishes of the copyright holder. It's strange that something so central hasn't been clarified yet, but maybe it's part of the changes meant for V.3. When you think about it, it'd be like banning any closed-source apps from being developed for Linux, since any application makes syscalls to the kernel and its libraries. But the fact is that there are now closed-source apps for that platform, and are considered legit since those apps don't include code from the kernel, but instead, merely make calls to binary objects. I fail to see the difference between making calls to the kernel API and making calls to Qt libraries. Luke. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Big development in the GUI realm
On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 13:24:35 +1100, Tim Churches <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >: NOTE! This copyright does *not* cover user programs that use kernel >: services by normal system calls - this is merely considered normal use >: of the kernel, and does *not* fall under the heading of "derived work". OK, so according to Linus, the GPL allows a proprietary program to make calls to the kernel, but TrollTech says the GPL doesn't allow a proprietary program to make calls to the Qt library. It's this double-standard that I find confusing, since both projects are said to be based on the same license. I wouldn't have any problem if Qt had built its own GPL-derived, custom license, but they claim it's the same ol' GPL. Hence the questioning. Luke. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
wxPython to build an HTML analyser/displayer?
Hi, Currently, I use filters in Privoxy followed by a JavaScript embedded script to further filter a web page that is restricted to IE (because of incompatibilities of the DOM), and was wondering if it'd be feasible to write a Python GUI app with wxPython that would do the same, ie. fetch a web page, analyse its contents and filter/rewrite, before displaying it in a HTML renderer? Does wxWidgets offer an HTML displayer widget, and is it good enough? Thank you Luke. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python Win32 Silent Install
On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 17:15:38 -0500, Steve Holden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >You are right about ActiveState, the copy you download from their web >site is licensed to prohibit redistribution. They might be prepared to >cut you a special license, but you'd have to ask them about that. Does it mean it's not allowed to build an application with ActiveState Python, and generate an installer that installs the whole thing, forcing users to go to ActiveState's web site and download the interpreter? Gee, that changes everything... Luke. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: wxPython to build an HTML analyser/displayer?
On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 16:57:45 -0800, "Roger Binns" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: (snip) Thx the links. Luke. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?
On 20 Dec 2004 13:28:02 -0800, "John Machin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Babelfish gave up on "durchzuwursteln" and so did I -- >"through-to-sausage-???" This is getting erotic ;-) Luke. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Tricks to install/run Python on Windows ?
On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 19:43:24 +0100, StepH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >What's wrong ? Python seems terific, but the tools... You could uninstall both Python and PyWin32 a.k.a. PythonWin, and install ActiveState Python which includes both in one tool. Then, check if the PythonWin IDE works fine. Luke. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?
On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 20:06:57 -0500, Ed Leafe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >That's where Paul and I came from, and that was our initial motivation >for deciding to develop Dabo - there wasn't a Python tool out there >that could even begin to approach what we were used to with VFP. Interesting discussion. I haven't looked at Dabo yet, but the issues that must be solved before Python is a valid alternative to proprietary solutions like Delphi or VB are: - speed where it matters (ie. no 20s load time) - good RAD (IDE and GUI designer, on par with Delphi or VB) - high-quality, varied widgets - good DB connectors - reasonable footprint (ie. no 20MB program just for a small appplication; have mercy on users stuck with P3 and dial-up) - ease of deployment and maintenance (ie. how easy is it for an application to launch some updated that will fetch updates from the web) If Dabo can do all this, it could be a great solution to all those people Delphi/VFP/VB users whether to go .Net. Luke. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
