Re: Basic Python Questions - Oct. 31, 2013
"E.D.G." wrote in message news:yo-dnwfmi7_7d-jpnz2dnuvz_hqdn...@earthlink.com... Posted by E.D.G. on November 12, 2013 The following is part of a note that I just posted to the Perl Newsgroup. But it is actually intended for all computer programmers who are circulating free download software. One of the people that I work with and I are using an important computer program that is quite unique. It was created a long time ago by a highly regarded scientist who passed away a while back. And he made three copies of the program available for people as free downloads. The first is an exe version of the program that will run on any Windows machine. The second is the code for the program written using what is now an ancient version of Fortran. And the third is for the same program using an ancient version of Basic. The professional programmer and I attempted to produce versions of the program using a modern language. I managed the project and the programmer did the actual work. And unfortunately, in spite of his many years of experience he could not understand the Fortran and Basic versions to the point where he could translate them. I recommended that he post some notes to the Fortran Newsgroup and ask if anyone visiting that Newsgroup had an instruction manual for that ancient version of Fortran that would explain what the program code meant. But for some reason he chose not to do that. And it would have taken me a considerable amount of time to attempt the translation myself. So, the end result is that when the program needs to generate data, the exe version is used "as is." Or it is called from a Perl program and given the input information it needs so that it can generate data. The point is, when people want to make some computer program available for use by others around the world they might want to circulate a version of their program that has such a simple format that anyone can understand it. And for actual use they can generate parallel versions that have more efficient code that people who are working with that language can understand. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Program Translation - Nov. 14, 2013
Posted by E.D.G. on November 14, 2013 In view of the fact that I mentioned the following project in both Perl and Python Newsgroup notes and did not get any hostile responses I am going to take a chance and mention it again in all three of these Newsgroups. People posting responses might want to do that in just one Newsgroup. I will check all three for responses for a few weeks. This is the Web address for an interesting and apparently unique computer program written using FORTRAN 77. As far as I am aware, it has never been translated to newer language. There is a BASIC version that was apparently written around the same time as the FORTRAN version. http://www.bfo.geophys.uni-stuttgart.de/etgtab.html What a number of us would like to do is obtain a copy of the program that is written in a newer language so that we can then merge it with the programs available through the following Web page. The new programs would then be made available as freeware programs to researchers around the world. This indirect link is being used in an effort to keep Web site related spam to a minimum. I don't collect credits by having people visit that (indirect) Web site. http://www.freewebs.com/eq-forecasting/RH.html If there are any programmers who might be interested in such a translation effort then I would be interested in hearing from them. Etgtab generates Solid Earth Tide and ocean tide data for any location on or inside the planet. I am not aware of any other freeware program that can do that. SunGP available at that second Web site is the only freeware program that I know about that generates what are sometimes referred to as subsolar and sublunar types of data. The download code was written using True BASIC. If you draw a line between the centers of the sun and the Earth then the place where that line crosses the surface of the Earth is the subsolar location. The sublunar location is the same type of thing. The SunGP program code is also available in Perl code, but not through any Web sites. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Program Translation - Nov. 14, 2013
"E.D.G." wrote in message news:ro-dnch2dptbrhnpnz2dnuvz_rsdn...@earthlink.com... The responses regarding that Etgtab program were encouraging. I was not sure if anyone would even recognize the code as the program was written quite a while ago. The main reason for wanting to translate it into modern language code is so that it can be easily modified and also merged with another computer program. The main language it would probably be translated into is True BASIC. This is because the person doing the work is a retired professional computer programmer who does work like that as a hobby. But he will only work with True BASIC. In fact he already translated most of the Etgtab program. The effort got stopped when he could not understand some of the FORTRAN code. Unlike working personnel, retired people can start and stop efforts like that as they please. From discussions with people in several Newsgroups the conclusions I arrived at in the past few weeks are the following: Perl would not work because it does calculations too slowly. Standard Python would also not work for the same reason. However, there are Python routines available that would make it possible to accelerate the calculations. FORTRAN, True BASIC, XBasic, and another language called Julia likely do calculations fast enough. Julia looks like it is specifically designed for that type of work. http://julialang.org/ I am checking with that programmer to see if he wants to continue with the effort. The program itself has some importance for earthquake related research. A number of years ago I checked with the U.S. Government's "Ask A Geologist" staff to see if they knew about any freeware programs that researchers could use to generate those types of data. And I was told that they did not know of any. Apparently they did not even know that Etgtab exists. I had to do some Internet searches to find it. The Solid Earth Tide data it generates are probably fairly good. The plan is to check its ocean tide data against data from the following Web site to see how well they match. http://tbone.biol.sc.edu/tide/ We could not find any good freeware programs for generating the types of sun and moon location data needed for this research and so we wrote one ourselves. It has been available for a number of years as a freeware program written in True BASIC. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Program Translation - Nov. 14, 2013
"E.D.G." wrote in message
news:jckdnqiu1zxguxvpnz2dnuvz_qmdn...@earthlink.com...
"E.D.G." wrote in message
news:ro-dnch2dptbrhnpnz2dnuvz_rsdn...@earthlink.com...
Etgtab FORTRAN project
Perl speed comparison
This Etgtab FORTRAN computer program related effort is progressing
much better than I thought possible. Here is some information on the
project plus a status report.
The Etgtab program appears to be highly unique. And under the right
conditions it might be highly valuable to the international scientific
community. So, what we are attempting to do is get it translated into some
modern language that researchers around the world can have their own
programmers easily modify for their specific uses.
The first step is to get someone to actually prepare the new code.
And if it were up to me I would stay with FORTRAN.
It appears that my retired programming colleague is going to be
willing to do the work since he has the program already partly translated.
But he will only prepare a True BASIC translation.
In order for him to finish the True BASIC version we would need a
modern FORTRAN version of the program that my research colleague can
decipher. And it appears that there are some people or groups that are
willing to help make that conversion. He can hopefully work with them to
get any details settled.
We would then like to merge that True BASIC version of program with
an already existing True BASIC program and then get things organized so that
the output data can be displayed on charts.
Personally, I don't like the way that True BASIC draws charts for
Windows computers. And although my colleague has permission to put chart
drawing routines in the program we also plan to use a different procedure.
I myself will create a Perl language program that can call an exe version of
the True BASIC program and have it generate the necessary data. Perl can
then plot the data on a chart. That doesn't take long.
We will then make those Perl chart generation code available to the
Python programmers and any other interested parties to see if they would
like to create a Python (or whatever) program that can do the same thing.
Of course, everything could be done using FORTRAN. However since
this is all volunteer work we need to go with whatever language the people
actually doing the work are willing to work with.
PERL SPEED COMPARISON
Some of the early discussions leading to this point involved
calculation speed comparisons for Perl and Python. The table on the
following Web page contains some interesting speed comparisons between
various programming languages. They are all compared to the speed it takes
a "C" language program to run the tests.
http://julialang.org/
For comparing Perl with Perl I ran the following program. And I
would expect that the same time differences might also be seen if standard
Python were used though each individual speed might run faster than Perl.
print 'start', "\n";
for (1..1){$x = 2/3};
print 'end', "\n";
sleep 10;
8 seconds - On a 64 bit Windows 8 fast quad core 64 bit computer with plenty
of memory running the latest version of ActiveState 64 bit Perl there was an
8 second delay between when it printed "start" and "end."
20 seconds - On a 32 bit Vista fairly fast dual core 64 bit computer with
plenty of memory running ActiveState 32 bit Perl 5.10.0.1005 there was a 20
second delay between the "start" and "end."
36 seconds- On a 32 bit XP moderate speed single core computer (don't know
if it is 32 or 64 bit) using a software program that makes it work like a
dual core system plus plenty of memory running ActiveState 32 bit Perl
5.10.0.1005 there was a 36 second delay between "start" and "end."
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Program Translation - Nov. 14, 2013
"Ben Bacarisse" wrote in message news:0.444ab0f1470c9d9a7a89.20131117124526gmt.87li0nqjrt@bsb.me.uk... There is a slight air in unreality to all this, but just in case this is The world of science where programmers work with people who have degrees in the physical sciences can get complicated. I myself have found that it is almost a necessity to have people sitting next to one another in order to get anything done in a timely manner. A relatively simple program that my programming colleague and I developed took something like six months to get running because it was created by sending E-mail back and forth. And virus filters etc. kept blocking some of the programs. We had to give them all dat extensions just to send them from one location to another and then change them back to exe or zip at their destinations. Fortran is still the language that most scientists use, and the program is already a working Fortran program. The most significant thing you could do to revive this work is to document it and tidy up the code. If you wan to modernise the code (and there could be benefits in terms of clarity if you do so) a modern version of standard Fortran is the obvious choice. I myself would go with Fortran. But my programming colleague will only work with True BASIC. And he is the one who will be doing the work. Fortunately, it sounds like there is a Fortran to True BASIC converter avaiable. So, once underway the effort might be completed in a very short time. Though to my mind secondary, tidying up the code would also help. Things could be clarified by introducing a few more utility functions, using more descriptive names, indenting loops, replacing out-dated constructs with newer ones, and so on. For one thing, the input and output routines need to be changed. And we want it to be able to generate charts or graphs. The existing program will generate only text data. If it is translated to True BASIC then those code along with the newer Fortran code will likely be made available to people as freeware. Finally, why are you timing Perl arithmetic? A translation into Perl Those timing data were an update for earlier notes that were posted to the Perl and Python Newsgroups. One question that got asked was if 64 bit Perl runs faster than 32 bit Perl for simple math. Those speed tests indicate that there was only about a factor of 2 difference at best. All of my own important programs are written using Perl. I am starting to run into calculation speed limitations with one of the programs. And I wanted to determine if the calculations could be done faster within Perl or if another language would need to be used. The answer is that for math calculations there are much faster languages including Fortran. These are personal opinions. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Program Translation - Nov. 14, 2013
"E.D.G." wrote in message news:ro-dnch2dptbrhnpnz2dnuvz_rsdn...@earthlink.com... All of the necessary information regarding this effort has now been obtained. So, further discussions of this particular project will probably take place in only the Fortran Newsgroup. If and when the project is completed I will probably post another general note about it. The retired computer programmer that I am working with has agreed to work on it. If we can generate a modern Fortran translation of the original program code then that will be made available to people and probably tested by Fortran users. And researchers around the world can then work with that code if they wish. But, if my programming colleague is going to do any work on modifying the newer program code then that will need to be done using True BASIC as that is the only language he will work with. So, for our own work, its that language or nothing. The project is in my opinion worthwhile as the Etgtab program seems to be so unique. No other freeware program can generate those data as far as I am aware. And it has been my own experience that True BASIC code is very easy to translate into virtually any other language. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Program Translation - Nov. 14, 2013
"Roy Smith" wrote in message news:roy-d4b9a4.10202517112...@news.panix.com... Scientists view computer programs as tools, no different from any other I agree totally. There are many scientists who learn how to write programs to help with their scientific work. I doubt that there are too many programmers who go out and get an additional degree in biology, chemistry, or physics to help with their programming work. And there appears to me to often be a gap between how people in the two different worlds go about getting things done. Since this program translation will be done by someone who actually wrote program code for a living it will at least actually look like a program when it is finished. There will be indentation etc. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Program Translation - Nov. 14, 2013
"E.D.G." wrote in message news:ro-dnch2dptbrhnpnz2dnuvz_rsdn...@earthlink.com... Some additional research indicates that there is an international scientific organization that should be interested in this particular program translation effort. And tomorrow I plan to contact them and see what they have to say about it. It is possible they might decide to do the work themselves. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Program Translation - Nov. 14, 2013
"Terry Reedy" wrote in message news:mailman.2820.1384745298.18130.python-l...@python.org... A couple of sentences of follow-up would have been sufficient. The experience that I have had over the years with Newsgroup posting is that it is generally better to try to be polite and answer as many questions as possible even when that results in more information being posted than might be necessary. Hopefully a discussion will then end quietly on a pleasant note. That approach seems to usually produce good results. Quite often people who are happy with the tone of the public Newsgroup discussion will send along some valuable information by E-mail. And that has been happening with this present discussion that will now continue in only the Fortran Newsgroup. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Program Translation - Nov. 14, 2013
"Joel Goldstick" wrote in message news:mailman.2792.1384709379.18130.python-l...@python.org... That being said, I'm guessing that this thing is used in some academic setting. If that's true, why not get a student (who will be much more versed in modern programming languages and techniques) to document and rewrite the code. When you start off with the requirement that the True BASIC appears to do calculations at a speed that is probably somewhere in the Fortran range. And as I stated, since someone volunteered to do some modernization work he gets to select whatever language he prefers. Also as I stated, I am now starting some discussions with scientists who actually use these types of data on a regular basis in order to get some input from them. Perhaps they might want to have some of their own programmers modernize the code. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Several Topics - Nov. 19, 2013
"E.D.G." wrote in message news:ro-dnch2dptbrhnpnz2dnuvz_rsdn...@earthlink.com... Posted by E.D.G. on November 19, 2013 1. PERL PDL CALCULATION SPEED VERSUS PYTHON AND FORTRAN 2. COMPUTER PROGRAMMING PROJECTS PERL PDL CALCULATION SPEED VERSUS PYTHON AND FORTRAN This program translation project has become one of the most surprisingly successful programming projects I have worked on to date. A considerable amount of valuable information has been sent to me by E-mail in addition to all of the information posted to the Newsgroups. The original posts actually discussed calculation speed matters involving Perl and Python. And responses indicated that there were ways to develop routines that could dramatically accelerate Python calculations. But it did not sound like there were any for Perl. However, a kind soul sent me the following references: http://pdl.perl.org/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IE-vnnRWiOg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf1yfZ2yUFo From what I can see, PDL represents a group of modules that can be linked with Perl to do faster calculations and to generate charts. I gather that it converts calculations directly to the C language so that they run faster. And now I am wondering how those calculations would compare with Python and Fortran and the other programs listed on the following Web page: http://julialang.org/ As soon as possible I am planning to give the PDL modules a try myself and see if they help with my present Perl calculation speed limitations. Does anyone have any comments they can add regarding PDL (for posting in the Perl Newsgroup)? Would those PDL modules be available on Internet Servers that let users develop and run Perl CGI programs? Or would they need to be specially installed? COMPUTER PROGRAMMING PROJECTS As most people visiting these Newsgroups probably know, computers run our world. And therefore, computer programmers at least indirectly run our world. As an experienced scientist who does some programming work I myself am fully aware of that. But relatively few other scientists are. And almost no government officials appear to be. And they are the ones who have all of the money. As an experienced scientist I regularly send free technical advice to governments and nongovernmental organizations (NGOs) around the world regarding humanitarian projects. Some of my past efforts have been highly successful. And because I am so aware of the importance of computer programming to the success of most efforts I can be especially effective when discussing proposed projects. I know enough about computer programming, electronics, and machine shop usage that I can provide the government officials with exact instructions for how they should proceed with developing some project. For example, sometimes the best way to get something done is with a specially designed electronic circuit. At other times it is more efficient to use a microprocessor to do the data processing. There are several highly important computer programming intensive projects that I have been attempting to get our governments to develop for some time. They are in my opinion needed by people around the world. I have several Web sites that were created so that information could be easily circulated regarding those projects. And as time permits I plan to start discussing them in various computer language Newsgroups. An effort is also in progress to get some modifications made to the U.S. Government Petitions Web Site so that it works a little better and is of more use to people. https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/ It has been my personal experience that our government officials who decide which projects should get funding and how many computer programmers etc. need to be hired for this or that effort usually know so little about the work that computer programmers and even scientists do that they often don't have any idea regarding how to solve various problems and also often don't even know that certain problems exist. These are personal opinions. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Disaster Mitigation Program - Apr. 27, 2014
"E.D.G." wrote in message news:9jydndajlf5n1sdonz2dnuvz_oqdn...@earthlink.com... A PROPOSED INTERNET-BASED DISASTER ANTICIPATION AND RESPONSE COMPUTER PROGRAM Posted by E.D.G. on April 27, 2014 http://www.freewebs.com/eq-forecasting/Disaster_Response_System.html http://www.freewebs.com/eq-forecasting/Science_Organization.html http://www.freewebs.com/eq-forecasting/DSAT.html TABLE OF CONTENTS --- Information For Newsgroup Readers --- Introductory Comments --- A Proposed Internet-Based Disaster Anticipation And Response Computer Program --- How This Proposed Disaster Mitigation Program Would Work --- Participation In This Effort --- Additional Information For Newsgroup Posters --- Final Comments INFORMATION FOR NEWSGROUP READERS It would be appreciated if you would forward copies of this report to any government agencies, nongovernmental organizations, news services, commercial and university computer programming groups, and individual researchers that you feel might be interested in the subject matter. It is recommended that people who would like to post a response to this report should read the "ADDITIONAL INFORMATION FOR NEWSGROUP POSTERS" section of the report before they post their responses. The URLs in this report are indirect. They are often used in my public notices in part in the hope that this will help reduce the amount of spam mail that has to be dealt with each day. And indirect URLs also make it possible to change the address of an actual web page without having to circulate a notice letting everyone know about that. It is only necessary to change the internal address in the indirect URL. If those indirect URLs do not work with your Internet browser then if you wish you can contact me by E-mail for direct addresses. Webs.com is apparently posting advertisements to the bottoms of web pages at my Freewebs.com site. I don't have any arrangement with Webs.com for those advertisements to be there and would prefer that they were not present. However, it is a free site. So it would not be fair to complain. The statements in this report are expressions of personal opinion. INTRODUCTORY COMMENTS Most of this report was written quite a while ago but never posted to any newsgroups because other efforts have had a higher priority. While watching news reports related to that recent deadly Korea area ship sinking I decided to go looking in my files for the report, update it, and post it to a number of computer language newsgroups. This report discusses an effort to have a powerful and sophisticated Internet-based computer program created that could be used by governments and nongovernmental organizations such as hospitals around the world to anticipate and more rapidly respond to health and life-threatening situations such as that ship sinking. Those situations could range from serious automobile traffic accidents up to major aircraft crashes, floods, disease outbreaks, earthquakes, and hurricanes. A PROPOSED INTERNET-BASED DISASTER ANTICIPATION AND RESPONSE COMPUTER PROGRAM http://www.freewebs.com/eq-forecasting/Disaster_Response_System.html Professional and even amateur computer programmers around the world might be some of the most important unsung heroes of modern times. They develop and maintain the computer programs that are used by virtually every government, nongovernmental organization, hospital, doctor, and independent researcher around the world. The Internet itself is perhaps the most extraordinary communications resource ever developed. And it could be described as a complex, interlinking group of computer programs. In spite of all of the extraordinary work they are doing and how important their efforts are to everyone on the planet, computer programmers probably rarely get any recognition outside of their own field. I can't recall a Nobel Prize ever being awarded to a computer programmer. The proposed Internet-based disaster anticipation and response computer program discussed in this report is something that could conceivably change that and provide programmers around the world with something that they could point to and claim that they themselves were the people who were responsible for the program's development, not some government. Government, university, private corporation, and even independent programmers could take part in the development of this proposed disaster mitigation program. However, the actual program might need to be run by some independent organization such as the proposed science information related nonprofit foundations discussed on the web page that the following URL points to: http://www.freewebs.com/eq-forecasting/Science_Organization.html HOW THIS PROPOSED DISASTER MITIGATION PROGRAM WOULD WORK Versions of the proposed disaster mitigation progra
Basic Python Questions - Oct. 31, 2013
Posted by E.D.G. on October 31, 2013 The following are several relatively basic questions regarding Python's capabilities. I am not presently using it myself. At the moment a number of people including myself are comparing it with other programs such as XBasic for possible use. 1. How fast can Python do math calculations compared with other languages such as Fortran and fast versions of Basic. I would have to believe that it is much faster than Perl for doing math calculations. 2. Can Python be used to create CGI programs? These are the ones that run on Internet server computers and process data submitted through Web site data entry screens etc. I know that Perl CGI programs will do that. 3. If Python can be used for CGI programming, can it draw charts such as .png files that will then display on Web pages at a Web site? 4. How well does Python work for interactive programming. For example, if a Python program is running on a PC and is drawing a chart, can that chart be modified by simply pressing a key while the Python program is running. I have Perl and Gnuplot program combinations that can do that. Their interactive speed is not that great. But it is adequate for my own uses. 5. Can a running Python program send information to the Windows operating system as if it were typed in from the keyboard? Perl can do that and I would imagine that Python probably has that same capability. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Basic Python Questions - Oct. 31, 2013
Posted by E.D.G. October 31, 2013
Hi Chris,
Thanks for the responses. Several of my questions were answered.
The calculation speed question just involves relatively simple math
such as multiplications and divisions and trig calculations such as sin and
tan etc. Presently I am using Perl to do those types of calculations. And I
am starting to run into problems with how long it takes Perl to do thousands
and even millions of calculations like that even though they are relatively
simple.
The version of Perl that I am presently using has the usual Print
statements for printing to the Perl program window. It sends Windows
programs or files information in the following manner:
Win32::GuiTest::SendKeys("The text within these two parentheses marks will
print as text in an active Notepad window.");
It would be my guess that Python has some type of statement like
that.
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Basic Python Questions - Oct. 31, 2013
"rusi" wrote in message news:1e63687b-4269-42d9-8700-e3a8dcc57...@googlegroups.com... Not sure what will… you may look at Julia: http://julialang.org/ That program language speed comparison table looks quite interesting. And I asked some of the other people that I work with to take a look at the Web page. One or two of them might want to consider using it instead of XBasic assuming the calculation speeds and chart generation capabilities are at least roughly equal. If either of them decides to move in that direction I will probably try using it myself. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Basic Python Questions - Oct. 31, 2013
"E.D.G." wrote in message news:udgdnadga6n9vu_pnz2dnuvz_umdn...@earthlink.com... Thanks for all of the comments. I have been away from my Internet connection for several days and could not respond to them when they were first posted here. The comments have all been considered. And I am discussing them with other researchers that I work with. Since Perl has a calculation speed limit that is probably not easy to get around, before too long another language will be selected for initially doing certain things such as performing calculations and plotting charts. And the existing Perl code might then be gradually translated into that new language. Gnuplot is presently being used to draw charts. And it works. But it has its own limitations such as with its interaction speed when it is used for working with Perl program generated data files. My main, complex programs won't be run at Web sites. They will instead continue to be available as downloadable exe programs. The CGI (or whatever) programming work would involve relatively simple programs. But they would need to be able to generate charts that would be displayed on Web pages. That sounds like it is probably fairly easy to do using Python. A Perl - Gnuplot combination is also supposed to be able to do that. But so far I have not seen any good explanations for how to actually get Gnuplot to run as a callable CGI program. So other programs such as Python are being considered. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Basic Python Questions - Oct. 31, 2013
"Mark Lawrence" wrote in message news:mailman.1873.1383227352.18130.python-l...@python.org... https://pypi.python.org/pypi/pywinauto/0.3.9 or http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1823762/sendkeys-for-python-3-1-on-windows Python "SendKey" looks like it probably works about the same as the Perl version. It prints or sends control information to the active window. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Basic Python Questions - Oct. 31, 2013
"William Ray Wing" wrote in message news:mailman.1934.1383320554.18130.python-l...@python.org... If you look here: http://wiki.wxpython.org/MatplotlibFourierDemo A suggestion that I would like to add is that when people make "Demo" programs like that available they might want to create exe versions that people can download and try without installing the original programming language. However, there might have been an exe version at that Web site and I just didn't see it. I myself use expendable backup computers (Windows XP) for testing new exe programs so that problems are not created for my primary computer. If something goes wrong on one of the backup systems it is simply told to go back to an earlier restore point. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Basic Python Questions - Oct. 31, 2013
"Steven D'Aprano" wrote in message news:5275fe91$0$29972$c3e8da3$54964...@news.astraweb.com... http://jakevdp.github.io/blog/2013/06/15/numba-vs-cython-take-2/ http://technicaldiscovery.blogspot.com.au/2011/06/speeding-up-python-numpy-cython-and.html It appears that Python can do what is needed. And if the people that I work with want to move in that direction I will probably post a note here stating, "This is exactly what we need to do. What would be the best Python download and compiler to do that?" It should be a simple matter to determine which compiler and libraries etc. should be used. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Basic Python Questions - Oct. 31, 2013
"Jim Gibson" wrote in message news:031120131018099327%jimsgib...@gmail.com... One way to generate plot within a CGI program is this: To start off with, I am not a CGI expert. Also, I have several degrees in the physical sciences and many years of doing computer programming. But the programming work is done just to get various science projects to work. The question that I could not get an answer for was, “How can you get Gnuplot to run on an Internet server computer?” And I would eventually have to ask that same question for Python. My Internet Server looks like it has Perl, Perl5, and PHP available. And I have created a number of CGI Perl programs that run on the Web site. But as I said, I would not know how to get Gnuplot or Python to run at the site. Any recommendations for how to do that? Or should I just do a search for the necessary documentation? -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Python Questions - July 25, 2015
Posted by E.D.G. July 25, 2015
This posting involves general interest matters and some specific
questions regarding Python code usage. Any help would be appreciated.
1. Program conversion effort
2. Specific code questions
1. PROGRAM CONVERSION EFFORT
An effort is underway by several people including myself to convert a
complex Perl language program to some other language such as Python so that,
among other things, the program's numerous calculations will run faster.
Perl with the PDL module would probably work. But we could not get
the needed type of support for the PDL module. We also looked at Julia and
several versions of Basic. But they also did not appear to presently have
the type of support that is needed.
Fortran was tried. It is great for calculation speed and the Fortran
users were quite helpful. But we could not get certain important questions
answered regarding using Fortran to create Windows "Pipes" to other running
programs etc.
We are presently checking to see if Python has the needed features
and adequate support from Python newsgroups or forums.
At the moment our Perl programs use Windows "Pipes" plus files in an
interactive mode to send data to Gnuplot so that the data can be plotted.
That actually produces good results. But it is a complex and inefficient
process. So part of the conversion process involves learning how to have
Python or some other program plot data in the same interactive mode.
In this case "interactive" means that when a chart is being displayed
on the computer screen for example, a key such as a Right Arrow Key can be
pressed. My main Perl program checks for key presses perhaps 10 times a
second and if it detects one it sends the appropriate information to Gnuplot
through a "Pipe" so that Gnuplot will open some data file and use its
contents to draw a new chart. That redrawing process on a moderately fast
computer occurs so rapidly the transition cannot even be seen.
The Perl program does not simply wait for a key to be pressed because
it is at times processing data in the background.
It has been my experience that sending large amounts of data from one
program to another using a Windows pipe doesn't work very well. So files
are presently being used for bulk data transfers.
2. SPECIFIC CODE QUESTIONS
It will likely take some time to get all of these questions
completely answered, especially the ones involving graphics.
1. The initial version of Python being used has to be a free download that
is easy to understand. And it has to be compatible with Windows.
Where can the best free download version of Python be obtained?
Is the ActiveState version the best one for people who are not Python
experts?
I always found it quite easy to install ActiveState versions of Perl.
2. Graphics - This is likely a fairly complicated question.
What are some of the graphics options available with Python?
Does it have its own internal graphics routines? Perl does not as
far as I can tell. And we never had time to explore Fortran's graphics
capabilities.
I am aware of the existence of Matlab. But as stated, everything
involved with this present effort has to be a free download so that
programmers around the world can easily and inexpensively generate program
subroutines etc.
3. Fast Calculations
It is my expectation that Python by itself does not do calculations
very fast when compared to a language such as Fortran.
So, what options are available for increasing the speed of Python
calculations?
Python could call a Fortran program to do the calculations just as
Perl could. But we would like to avoid having to use more than one language
with this effort.
4. What is the code for opening a Windows "Pipe" between a running Python
program and some other program such as another Python or Perl program that
can work with pipes?
Three examples are needed if possible, one for just sending, one for
just receiving, and one that allows both sending and receiving. I know how
to open Windows pipes using Perl.
5. We would want Python to check for a key press now and then without
actually waiting until a key is pressed. What would be the command for
that? It is likely something like Get_Key
6. What is Python's version of the DOS level "System" command that many
programs use as in:
system "open notepad.exe"
7. What is Python's version of the SendKey command that many programs use to
send information to an active Windows program as in:
SendKey("Message to be printed on the Notepad screen")
or
SendKey(Right Arrow Key)
8. What commands does Python use to send to, and retrieve information from,
the Windows clipboard?
Regards, and thanks again for any assistance with this.
E.D.G.
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python Questions - July 25, 2015
wrote in message news:2adac4ce-976f-4a8a-849d-c76e484eb...@googlegroups.com... 1. Download the Windows installer from Python.org to get started. It's the simplest and most common way to get started with Python on Windows. 2. Your assumption that Python does not have GUI capabilities built into the language is not correct. But unlike Perl, it has the GUI library Tkinter bundled with it. There are several more capable choices available: PyGTK, PyQt/PySide, and wxPython. For intensive numerical calculations, I'd recommend using the NumPy module, as well as the 64-bit version of Python is possible. Posted by E.D.G. July 25, 2015 Thanks for the comments. I saw your other response as well. And it sounds like this effort is off to a good start. I myself have not yet started working with Python. But a retired professional programmer who is part of this effort did attempt to install Python. And he stated to me that he had encountered some difficulties with the installation. I am assuming that he got his download from Python.org. I don't yet know why he ran into problems. But as I have used the ActiveState version of Perl for quite a few years and have never had any trouble installing it I thought that their Python download might be a fairly easy version to install. Exactly which version should be used should be an easy matter to resolve. Most of the computers that people will be using are 64 bit machines. But at the same time, most people will be using 32 bit versions of Windows including XP. And I believe that this means that a 32 bit version of Python has to be used as well. This is somewhat unfortunate as I was once told that with 32 bit Windows, the most RAM type memory that a single program can use is 2 gigabytes. I have found that to be the case with my Perl programs. With 64 bit Windows that memory limit reportedly does not apply. So, since many of the people involved with this type of effort will likely be using 32 bit Windows XP or Vista, we won't have a choice on this. Another question: With my Perl programs, when I want to run the programs on a new computer or even from a flash drive, basically all I do is copy an entire existing Perl program directory to the new computer or flash drive. And that works. However, to make certain that it will work I might also actually install the Perl language program, delete everything in the Perl directory, and then copy all of the contents of an existing Perl directory to that new Perl directory. That way all of the various Perl modules don't have to be individually downloaded and linked with the main program. Will that work with Python as well. Or does each installation need to be created from scratch? Regards, E.D.G. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python Questions - July 25, 2015
"Laura Creighton" wrote in message news:mailman.977.1437831069.3674.python-l...@python.org... I can answer some of these. Posted by E.D.G. July 25, 2015 Thanks for all of the comments. My retired professional programming colleague is now going to have plenty of projects to work on. I myself am neither retired nor a professional programmer and usually rely on him to do the programming language exploration work. Most of those "system," "Pipe", and "SendKey" type commands usually refer to programs that are going to be running in a Windows environment. And many or most of the experienced programmers who are using Perl, Python, or Fortran appear to me to be using UNIX or Linux. So they might not be familiar with some Windows related commands such as "system." It took me a long, long time to learn how to get the Perl versions of those commands to work. Regards, E.D.G. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python Questions - July 25, 2015
"Laura Creighton" wrote in message news:mailman.980.1437832769.3674.python-l...@python.org... The most common way to do things is to tell your users to install whatever python distribution you pick and then optionally install these extra packages (if you need any) and then give them a python program to run. But you can also package everything up into a .exe for them if they need this. Posted by E.D.G. July 26, 2015 For general interest purposes, as you can see, with my posts I usually include E.D.G. and the date of the posting. This is because the projects that I work on involve scientific research. And this way printed versions of the posts can be made. And they will include references that people can use. The printed versions would not have the types of information that are included with the electronic newsgroup distributions. What I was asking about in that earlier post is something that very few programmers or perhaps even no programmers are familiar with. Most people know what the .exe versions of programs are. But what I was asking about is more basic. It can take a considerable amount of time and effort to get a programming language installed and running with all of the features that are needed. It probably took me 5 to 10 years to get Perl organized on my computer like that. Once that process is done, people who are not professional programmers don't want to have to constantly update and change the basic language they have running on their computers. So, they might do what I do though I have never heard of anyone else doing that. My entire Perl language is in a directory called "Perl" on my computer. I use ActiveState 5.10 Perl which is a very old version. But it does everything that needs to be done except graphics and fast calculations. For the graphics I use a Perl to Gnuplot "Pipe" that works quite well and which took a long time for me to develop. A very old version of Gnuplot is also used for simplicity. I consists of just 2 small .exe files. Then if I want to run a .pl program on any computer or even from a flash drive I simply copy the entire 5.10 Perl directory to the new computer or flash drive. And any Perl program will then run on the new computer or from the flash drive. Windows let you specify that a .pl program should always be opened with perl.exe. The same is probably true with Python. So, Perl itself does not actually need to be installed on a computer to get .pl programs to run. However, it is probably a good idea to do that so that the perl.exe address is in the right Windows Environment variables. So, that is what I was asking about Python. Once it is installed and running properly, can people simply copy the entire Python directory to some other computer or flash drive and a Python language program will then run? If necessary, to get Perl programs to run faster we were planning to use a Perl to Fortran "Pipe" plus file storage of bulk data. Fortran would then process the files and tell the Perl program when it was done. But before doing that we decided to see if we could find another language that would do everything that my version of Perl does plus graphics and fast calculations. It appears that Python will do that. But it also appears that it would take quite a while to select a specific version of Python and then learn how to get everything organized and running. Another of my posts will probably go into more detail regarding that subject. Thanks for the comments. Regards, E.D.G. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python Questions - July 25, 2015
"Laura Creighton" wrote in message news:mailman.1018.1437935917.3674.python-l...@python.org... Yes. That is actually the usual way to do things for quite a few years now. What you are talking about is what we call a Python virtual environment. see: http://iamzed.com/2009/05/07/a-primer-on-virtualenv/ http://simononsoftware.com/virtualenv-tutorial-part-2/ for an introduction to them. Posted by E.D.G. July 26, 2015 Great! That is exactly what I needed to know. And in response to my original post I am going to post another note about this general programming effort. Regards, E.D.G. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python Questions - July 25, 2015
"E.D.G." wrote in message news:jf6dnqimoz_gxc7inz2dnuu7-s2dn...@earthlink.com... Posted by E.D.G. July 26, 2015 These are some additional comments related to my original post. The effort I have been discussing actually involves developing a totally free version of some language that scientists around the world could easily install and use. 1. With my own science related Perl programs I provide people with .exe versions in addition to the .pl versions. And for the .pl versions, at one of my Web sites there is actually an entire Perl programming language directory available in a .zip package. So, people can download the file, unzip it, and then save it as the Perl directory and .pl programs will then run on that computer. We would like to be able to do the same thing with Python if we start working with that language. And a response in another post indicates that this should be possible. 2. Python looks especially attractive because so many people are using it. And I myself have a friend who is a very experienced professional Python programmer. On the other hand, there are so many versions of Python that it might be difficult at first to determine which one to start with. 3. I asked that Python programmer if Python could run on an Internet server as a CGI program. And the answer was "I have no idea." So, amusingly, apparently even experienced professional programmers don't know everything there is to know about a given programming language! 4. I myself know that Perl programs will run on Internet servers as CGI programs and have written several myself using a development program called Xampp to create and test them before installing them on the server computer. 5. My retired professional programming colleague has now told me that he downloaded and installed the ActiveState Windows version of Python with no difficulties. So, that is encouraging news. 6. He said that he is looking around for a good IDE for Python and found one called "Eric" that he is checking. 7. With my Perl language programs I have developed a resource that will do the following. And I imagine that this could also be done with Python. This resource can't be developed with many and probably most programming languages. In part because of limited calculation speeds it can take one of my important probability calculation Perl programs as much a two hours to run and create all of the necessary data arrays. Many, many millions of calculations are involved. And once everything is set, for time limitation reasons it would be ordinarily be impossible to make any changes to the data or to the original program code without losing all of the data. So, I have developed a special Perl program that makes that possible. And as I said, I am guessing that this approach would also work with Python. When the Perl program is done with its calculations, instead of ending it jumps to another Perl program. But all of the data in the arrays it created remain active in memory. The original program code can then be changed. The second Perl program is then told that the changes are complete and that it should return to the first program. Perl then attempt to recompile the original code. If it is successful it then uses the new code and does whatever is specified. The previously created arrays are still active in memory using the same array names etc. If there was an error in the new code, a Windows screen appears explaining that there was an error and the compilation ends. But, the data remain in the active computer memory. Changes can then be are made to the program code to fix the error. And, the second Perl program is told to try again. If there are no new errors the first program recompiles and runs using the already created arrays etc. This is a very useful resource for scientists as it lets them create and test new program code without having to recreate all of the data arrays. And as I stated, it would probably not be possible to develop such a resource with most programming languages. Regards, E.D.G. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python Questions - July 25, 2015
"mm0fmf" wrote in message news:J5ctx.20800$IK6.11473@fx46.am4... > Am I the only person thinking Troll? Posted by E.D.G. July 26, 2015 In my opinion, one of the most important aspects in considering the selection of a new programming language is the willingness of people posting notes to the language's newsgroup to be friendly and cooperative. And in that regard, I have found the Fortran people to be the best. I never encountered an unfriendly note in that newsgroup. Unfortunately, Fortran just "ran out of steam" when it came to Windows applications. As far as I can recall, yours is only the second time I have encountered a Python newsgroup note that, in my opinion, did not have a friendly tone to it. And if that appears to be the general case here then all of the people with whom I work will just dump Python as a language to consider. The Perl newsgroup is yet another matter. And we have all largely decided to abandon Perl as the language of choice because it has seemed to be so difficult to get any help in that newsgroup. Regards, E.D.G. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python Questions - July 25, 2015
"E.D.G." wrote in message news:q5sdntejbkkjxyjinz2dnuu7-tedn...@earthlink.com... Posted by E.D.G. July 26, 2015 There is an additional comment for people who are interested in scientific programming efforts. Most people are aware that when the U.S. Government tried to get a Web site running in connection with the Affordable Care Act a while ago, the government Web site crashed. One of the major problems with government programming efforts appears to me to be the fact that people working in different government agencies are often using different programming languages. And those people don't communicate with one another. The results are inefficiency. To demonstrate that the programming effort I am discussing is quite serious I am providing the following indirect link. This is for a proposed effort to get as many government scientists etc. as possible connected with one another and moving in the same direction at the same time. http://www.freewebs.com/eq-forecasting/DSAT.html If that type of program does eventually get created then the government scientists are still going to want some computer language that they can all work with. And an important question at this time is, "Might one of the languages of choice be Python?" Regards, E.D.G. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python Questions - July 25, 2015
"Ned Batchelder" wrote in message news:b68af3d4-6f12-49d6-8c15-f18a95441...@googlegroups.com... Am I the only person thinking Troll? Yes. Posted by E.D.G. July 26, 2015 With some humor intended, thanks for the supportive note. This is an indirect URL for a potentially important computer program that I feel needs to be developed. Unfortunately, although Python could be used to create PC or Mac versions of the program I don't think that those programs would run on Internet server computers. But I don't yet know enough about Python to be able to tell if that is the case or not. http://www.freewebs.com/eq-forecasting/Disaster_Response_System.html There are two Perl programs that I have developed that I believe many Python users would like to have available in Python versions. And at some point I might create a Web page that will discuss them in detail. For the moment I have just made the decision to combine them into a single program that would be quite helpful for the scientific community. People don't actually even need my assistance with developing these types of programs. Some versions are likely already available for free. The first program can do things such as automatically go to a Web site that provides weather information for example, feed information to the Web page program running at that site, wait for the results, copy them to a PC or Mac, and start processing the data. It is a tremendously powerful and versatile program that can save scientists etc. large amounts of time by helping them automate repetitive tasks that take a lot of time if done manually. Microsoft at one time had a Windows program available that did things like that. I seem to remember that it was called "Recorder." My own Perl version of the program is many times more powerful. The second program acts as a type of universal communicator for Windows programs. It would actually work with any operating system. Running in the background it can start, stop, and interact with any Windows compatible programs such as other Perl programs, Notepad.exe, Excel, Fortran, Python undoubtedly, and also execute DOS shell commands etc. With word processor programs and spreadsheet programs like Excel it makes life much easier as a person needs to learn how to program in only one language to get things done instead of all of those individual macro languages. Regards, E.D.G. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Pipes
wrote in message news:d6a3dfe4-8389-463b-ac66-a93f14a91...@googlegroups.com... Just learning Python and have a question. Posted by E.D.G. on August 10, 2015 Roger's original post is largely a continuation of my July 25, 2015 posting regarding "Python Questions." His post does not actually explain what the general goal is here. So I will explain it once again. It has been my experience that researchers, particularly scientists, need to have some versatile and powerful programming language available that is compatible with the Windows operating system. The language needs to make certain resources available to the researchers. And in some form it should ultimately be compatible with other operating systems. Among the needed resources would be the ability to open and close files, read from and write to files, open "pipes" to other Windows programs, execute system or shell commands, read and respond to keyboard key presses, send text etc. to a running Windows program such as Notepad.exe and have it printed on the screen, and read and write to the Windows clipboard. Other important resources would be the ability to perform rapid calculations and the ability to generate plots that could display on the screen and also be saved as .png files etc. The language also has to have the ability to be "cloned." That means that it could be stored in some directory that could be copied from one computer to another. And programs written with that language would then run on the new computer. One person responding to my own earlier post stated that this is possible with Python. There are not too many programming languages that can do all of those things. Perl and probably Fortran will. But we could not get simple questions answered regarding how to do specific things such as open a "pipe" to a running Windows program. And there are two versions of Fortran, gfortran and F95 that we looked at. And we could not decided which one would work better. Python apparently also provides all of the necessary resources. And as all of these posts demonstrate, it has the major advantage in that when a question gets asked in the Python newsgroup, there is usually an answer. It will likely be up to Roger to decide if we will go with gfortran or Python since he does most of the actual computer program code development. Even though he prefers True Basic, I explained that we can't continue to use it. For example, with the versions we have been using, when it is waiting for a key to be pressed it is using 100% of the processor time. Perl and Fortran and probably Python just "go to sleep" while they are waiting for the Enter key to be pressed. They largely stop using the processor. The following is an example of how it can be important for researchers to have a powerful and versatile programming language available: I needed a program that could generate data regarding the locations of the sun and the moon in the sky in response to specific times entered. Roger developed the basic equations with some help from another researcher. And that took a while. But it probably took a full six months for us to compare notes by E-mail and get the program into a final form that people could download for free use. That is just too much time. Researchers need to be able to do things such as create simple charts etc. without spending months or years learning some programming language or comparing notes with one another. So, an entire Python directory that made that possible and that had clear instructions for how to open and close files and create "pipes" etc. would get the job done. If Roger wants to use Python then we might use the ActiveState version and then build those various resources into it. It reportedly installs in a Windows environment without problems. And I myself have used the ActiveState versions of Perl for quite a few years with a considerable amount of success. This assumes that the ActiveState version of Python can be taught to do fast calculations and to generate charts. If that does not look possible or easy then we will probably try one of the available scientific versions of Python. Would researchers then put professional Python programmers "out of business?" The answer is probably just the opposite. Researchers want to do research and not write computer programs. And if they can do at least some programming themselves then it makes it easier for them to work with professional programmers and explain what needs to be done. They are then more inclined to work with the programmers. And they won't have to compare notes with them for six months just to get a relatively simple task completed. Regards to all, E.D.G. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Important Research Project
Important Research Project (Related to computer programming) Posted by E.D.G. on August 30, 2007 [EMAIL PROTECTED] This report is being posted to a number of Internet Newsgroups to see if there are any experienced computer programmers who would like to provide some assistance with an effort to develop a Perl language computer program. Interested parties can try contacting me by e-mail or by posting a response note to the comp.lang.perl.misc newsgroup. They would need to download a recent (free) MSI copy of Perl from the ActiveState Web site and get it running on a Windows XP or Vista system. http://www.activestate.com I am presently using Perl 5.8.8 but plan to upgrade to the latest version as soon as possible. People can use Windows 98 if that is the only operating system available. Perl also runs on other operating systems. But at this time I specifically need help with the Windows version. The goal is to have a single Perl program (or modules) perform functions that have been done by a sizeable collection of other language programs in the past. Help is presently needed with learning how to get Perl to generate charts and also produce standalone .exe copies of itself. The plan is to then make those .exe copies available to other scientific researchers around the world for free use along with free use updates when they become available. If other researchers wish to get Perl running on their own computers then they will probably also be given the source code for the original program for free use so that they can do their own development work. Perl was originally chosen because it is quite versatile, is a free download, and is supported both by ActiveState and quite a few independent programmers. So other researchers could get their own versions running without having to worry about viruses or cost. So far the work is fairly advanced. The effort has been underway for at least a decade. The core data generation program was formally copyrighted several years ago. My present version of Perl will send data to Windows as if it were being manually typed into the keyboard (important for controlling other programs). And it can directed to respond to most keystrokes even when another program is the active one. Unfortunately, Windows also presently responds to those keystrokes. And that complicates things a bit. Not being a professional computer programmer I have been finding it difficult to get new features such as a chart generating ability merged with and running with Perl. And the entire research project is now being slowed as a result. One of my colleagues has done an extensive amount of work with Basic. And I even offered to pay him to help with the Perl development effort. But after he downloaded a copy of Perl and examined it he decided that this would involve too much effort. I have to agree with him. Once it is possible to create charts and .exe versions the plan is for researchers around the world to develop Perl modules for generating a variety of data related to sun, moon, planet, ocean tide crest and trough, and Solid Earth Tide locations. Most of those data can already be generated with other programs. Some of the data are not yet available anywhere as far as I am aware. If the effort is unusually successful the Perl program (or modules) might eventually be converted to CGI programs that will run at one or more Internet Web sites. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Important Research Project
"dave_w" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] My main Perl program is presently about 3500 lines of code long and 160 KB in size. So I am not too anxious to translate it into another language. The problem I am having is largely with the mechanics of linking modules to the Perl compiler etc. So I am looking for experts who can help with cookbook instructions, start with step 1, step 2, step 3 etc. With trying to find a chart program to use for example, there appear to be a number of them. But from examining their instructions it looks like most of them must also be linked to a third program called Gnuplot. And that increases the complexity of getting something running. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Important Research Project
"CBFalconer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > "E.D.G." wrote: > Where is Perl described in the C standard? This seems rather OT. It has been my experience that a person who is an expert with one computer language can usually do reasonably well when working with other languages. I am trying to find some people who can assist with getting a Perl program running. It would probably be easier for expert programmers in any language to help with this type of work compared with people such as myself who are not experts in any programming language. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Important Research Project
"E.D.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Important Research Project (Related to computer programming) > > Posted by E.D.G. on August 30, 2007 [EMAIL PROTECTED] This effort was not successful. And I am returning to trying to slowly make progress with the computer program I have been developing. I was hoping that there might be some people who had Perl chart and .exe generation programs running on their own computer who could say, "Here is how to merge them with Perl; here is how to use them; this is what they will do, etc." Or, I was hoping that someone would respond and say that although they are using Fortran or Basic etc. instead of Perl, they would be interested in getting a copy of Perl running, determine how to get those routines running, and then pass along the information. That would have saved some time. I work on these projects all the time. And it has been my experience that the world of science does not have the type of organized structure at this time to enable people to easily obtain that type of assistance. I have established an organization which will hopefully help with that problem. It might be going public at a Web site some time in the next year. There were some questions regarding the computer program I discussed. This is what it does: It provides researchers with the a certain amount of ability to determine if different events are somehow linked with one another. For example, it can be used to compare two or more earthquakes, earthquakes and electromagnetic pulses, tornados and electromagnetic pulses, and even earthquakes and tornados etc. It makes it possible for people to study events taking place deep in the Earth by evaluating electromagnetic pulse data associated with those events. Under the right conditions it can be used to forecast earthquakes. That is the reason it was developed in the first place. You can see the type of data it generates at the following Web page: http://www.freewebz.com/eq-forecasting/Data.html The plan is that when it has chart and standalone .exe program file generation capabilities, program copies will be circulated within the earthquake forecasting community in the People's Republic of China. It was discussed in detail there at a scientific conference in December of 2003. At that time it was too complex for widespread use. After the chart feature becomes operational etc. I am also planning to contact U.S. government officials to see if one or more lectures can be organized regarding the basic technology and theories, and the program's capabilities. These are personal opinions. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Important Research Project
"E.D.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] I have the Gnuplot graphics program running now with Windows XP. And it looks like it will work for my application. http://www.gnuplot.info -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Programming Languages Decisions
PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES DECISIONS Report Posted by E.D.G. August 18, 2008 This report is intended for any computer programming experts who would like to propose that their favorite programming language is the one that should be used for the potentially important application that is being discussed here. The report is also for people who are interested in disaster mitigation science. They might want to skip to Section 3 of the report. If you have a response that would be of interest to people in just one Newsgroup then I recommend that you post it to only that Newsgroup. If you have a technical comment that you want to make certain that I see then you should send me an E-mail copy of your posting. The information in this report represents expressions of personal opinion. 1. The Purpose Of This Report 2. Programming Language Recommendations 3. The Importance Of This Effort 4. Download Web Sites 5. Computer Viruses 1. THE PURPOSE OF THIS REPORT If all goes according to plan, within a few weeks I will begin circulating .exe copies of a Perl language disaster mitigation related computer program that I have been developing during the past decade or so. People will be able to download the program and its associated support files from some Web site for free and then use them for free. The Perl program presently sends data to the Gnuplot program for any graphics work that needs to be done. When the program is released, things could get a little hectic. So now might be a good time to consider if Perl and Gnuplot are the best choices for future work regarding this application. Some information regarding the types of data the program generates and the importance of this effort can be found in Section 3 of this report. ActivePerl version 5.8.8 from http://www.activestate.com is being used on a PC computer running Windows XP. ActivePerl version 5.10 from http://www.ActiveState.com is being used on a newer PC computer running Windows Vista. The Gnuplot graphics program version 4.2.1 for Windows systems from http://www.gnuplot.info is being used on both computers. Newer versions of those programs will be installed on both computers as time permits. When 5.10 was installed it required that some minor changes be made to the format of the SendKeys and IsKeyPressed commands. The commands still worked with 5.8.8 after the changes were made. When the downloadable Perl program is released a notice will be circulated regarding that. Programmers will be able to see how it runs on their own computers. As an .exe type program it should run "as is" on PCs running Windows XP or Vista. No Perl compiler will be needed. After people have seen it run they can again express an opinion regarding what the best program languages might be for future work with that application. Scientific researchers interested in using and developing the program will fall into one of two groups. A. Independent Researchers They will have to continue working with Perl and Gnuplot until a decision is made to change to other programming languages. I am not a programming expert. But some of those independent researchers are. And if one of them decides to move in another direction that looks productive then I will probably go along with that. B. Government and University Researchers Most of them have their own computer programmers. And they might decide to develop this application using a language they are already working with. Before making such a change they might contact me and ask if I believe that such a change would be a good idea. Or they might simply make the change without consulting with anyone. When the Perl program is released, programmers can contact governments and universities etc. and recommend that if their own programmers are going to be doing any development work on it then they should change to some other programming language. They can also contact me and state that. If and when I discuss this with government officials etc. I can pass along that information. I myself will be trying to convince governments etc. to use the program for important research work. It is essentially a probability number generator. And among other things I will be trying to get them to develop more accurate probability equations. Now that several fundamental and crucially important physics discoveries have been made there is almost unlimited room for improvement. That work should be fairly easy for government and university researchers and perhaps even independent researchers once they have the original program. They will be able to add their own equations and subroutines to it and use it to test their theories and data. 2. PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE RECOMMENDATIONS It is okay with me if the program is translated to some other language or even multiple languages. But if possible I would like
Re: Programming Languages Decisions
"Terry Reedy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Rather than explain further, I suggest that you visit python.org and read some of the tutorial to see what *you* think. http://docs.python.org/tut/tut.html My original programs were mostly in Basic. When it became obvious that I needed a more powerful language I took a look at Python, Ruby, and a number of other languages. To get started with this work I decided to go with Perl because it will do a lot of things and is highly flexible. And, it got the job done. But now that this application is up and running I am trying to collect opinions regarding what languages more serious programmers might want to use with future work for the application. And for independent researchers, Python might be the one they would choose. For government and university researchers who have more resources and their own computer programmers available it is sounding like one of the "C" family of languages might be the one they would like. How is Python with graphics? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Programming Languages Decisions
"John Machin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] language disaster was to avoid using that language altogether. It has been okay for getting my application up and running. And now that it is running people who will be using the application will have to decide if they want to make a change. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Programming Languages Decisions
"Lie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] How is Python with graphics? pygame for graphic with SDL library (e.g. fullscreen apps, hardware accelerated) Tkinter for basic GUI that can run on any python with no dependencies (except python vm) wxWidget, etc for more advanced GUI and if you allow dependencies Thanks for the comments. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
test-ignore
Test - ignore February 15, 2024 Test post to see if my Newsgroup post program is working. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
