Re: ANNOUNCE: Ice 2.0 released

2004-11-30 Thread Anand Hariharan
Marc Laukien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> > I'm sure this is a wonderful thing, but your announcement gives absolutely
> > no clue as to what Ice is or what it is used for.
> > 
> > Please include an executive summary when you make an announcement like
> > this.
> 
> Sorry for the omission. Please see the summary below:
> 
(...)
> 
> Ice is free software, available with full source, and released under the 
> terms of the GNU General Public License (GPL). Commercial licenses are 
> available for customers who wish to use Ice for closed-source software."
> 

Interesting to see this blend of GPL and an alternative for
closed-source software.

Not totally unrelated, I saw this in your web-site (Ice vs CORBA
page):

No "Design by Committee" 
Ice was designed by a small group of dedicated and highly experienced
people.


Am interested to know, what "percentage" (*) of the code in your CVS
repository has been contributed by people other than the group
mentioned in the quote above?  Obviously, you do not allow anonymous
CVS write access.  Perhaps, one wishing to improve Ice (a freedom
granted by GPL) and who does not work for ZeroC has to mail his/her
improvements to your maintainers?

(*):  Percentage is a very nebulous term, I know.  For purposes of
answering the question, maybe you could resort to the
not-highly-meaningful number of LOC, and perhaps a word or two about
how Ice benefited from it.

- Anand

PS:  Please feel free to set FU-Ts as appropriate.
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Re: ANNOUNCE: Ice 2.0 released

2004-11-30 Thread Anand Hariharan
Marc Laukien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> > 
(...)
> > Am interested to know, what "percentage" (*) of the code in your CVS
> > repository has been contributed by people other than the group
> > mentioned in the quote above?  Obviously, you do not allow anonymous
> > CVS write access.  Perhaps, one wishing to improve Ice (a freedom
> > granted by GPL) and who does not work for ZeroC has to mail his/her
> > improvements to your maintainers?
> > 
(...)
> 
> 100% of the Ice source code has been developed by ZeroC employees.
> 
> Note that this does of course not apply for third-party code that is 
> being used by Ice, such as BZIP2, Berkeley DB, OpenSSL, etc.
> 

Consider the *hypothetical* situation where an individual or a group
of people re-write large portions of Ice.  This could enhance the
value of Ice (obviously to some, if not all), or this could conflict
with the ideologies of Ice (again, not in everyone's point of view). 
How will ZeroC react to this?

I believe whichever road you take, ZeroC is going to find itself in
problems.  If ZeroC merges the changes made by this/these person(s),
how can ZeroC now sell it under a commercial license, as closed source
(violation of GPL)?  If you refuse to merge the changes, you have just
given them a strong impetus to fork.  History shows XEmacs and EGCS as
two such examples.

Guess what I am primarily interested in finding out is rooted in what
I said earlier:

> > Interesting to see this blend of GPL and an alternative for
> > closed-source software.

What were the ideas behind going the GPL way?  How did ZeroC plan on
benefiting from it?  Were there any qualms within ZeroC in going GPL?

Note that I am not saying GPL and commercial software don't go
together (I do believe though that LGPL and commercial software don't
go together).  I am well aware of Free software being "Free speech,
not free beer".

What if you did not provide Ice as a free download, but a price based
on your current licensing policy(*).  However, the download would give
one the complete source, and the freedom to modify and redistribute it
(at whatever price so long as the complete source code with the GPL
notice is released).
(*):  All of this is hypothetical.  Am not making a business
proposition here.

You do not, because that would discourage Ice from becoming
ubiquitous, from paving way for becoming a potential de-facto
standard.

Then, why not simply advertise Ice as being commercial (with unlimited
free trial plus source code)?  Doing so, would get you the extensive
peer review that you are currently benefitting from.  What do you gain
by going GPL?  The freedom to modify and/or redistribute is
(apparently) pretty restricted anyway.

> > PS:  Please feel free to set FU-Ts as appropriate.
> 
> What are FU-Ts?
> 

"Follow-up To:".  Most news clients will allow sending a post to
multiple groups, restricting any possible responses to certain groups
alone.  A poster who is replying can over-ride it, of course.

sincerely,
- Anand
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