Re: Usenet Gateway
Ned Batchelder wrote: On 5/23/18 12:03 PM, Gene Heskett wrote: Brain damaged by facebook, AOL, M$, Google, yahoo yadda yadda into thinking that webmail and forums are the only game in town? Please avoid accusing others of being brain damaged, even if it was meant in a humorous context. :( I think he meant "brainwashed". -- Greg -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: how to get INDEX count, or last number of Index
On 24/05/2018 03:37, Terry Reedy wrote: On 5/23/2018 8:46 PM, bartc wrote: On 24/05/2018 00:44, Terry Reedy wrote: On 5/23/2018 5:56 PM, Rob Gaddi wrote: On 05/23/2018 02:51 PM, asa32s...@gmail.com wrote: s = "kitti" 0,1,2,3,4 k,i,t,t,i how do i retrieve '4'. i know i can do a len(s)-1, Use -1, which is the same as len(s)-1 but faster. This illustrates one problem with having a example sequence of values being identical to the indices of those values. I would have used 10,20,30,40,50 so there could be no such mix-up. Because I assumed here that the OP wanted the index of the last value, the '4' they said they wanted, not the last value itself which would be 'i'. And actually, the subject line seems to confirm that. In that case, using a '-1' index won't work. You snipped the code that shows that -1 does work to fetch the last character. I'm sure it does. But it's not clear whether the OP wants the last character, or the index of the last character. The subject line suggests the latter. -- bart -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Some Issues on Tagging Text
I have a text as,
"Hawaii volcano generates toxic gas plume called laze PAHOA: The eruption of
Kilauea volcano in Hawaii sparked new safety warnings about toxic gas on the
Big Island's southern coastline after lava began flowing into the ocean and
setting off a chemical reaction. Lava haze is made of dense white clouds of
steam, toxic gas and tiny shards of volcanic glass. Janet Babb, a geologist
with the Hawaiian Volcano Observatory, says the plume "looks innocuous, but
it's not." "Just like if you drop a glass on your kitchen floor, there's some
large pieces and there are some very, very tiny pieces," Babb said. "These
little tiny pieces are the ones that can get wafted up in that steam plume."
Scientists call the glass Limu O Pele, or Pele's seaweed, named after the
Hawaiian goddess of volcano and fire"
and I want to see its tagged output as,
"Hawaii/TAG volcano generates toxic gas plume called laze PAHOA/TAG: The
eruption of Kilauea/TAG volcano/TAG in Hawaii/TAG sparked new safety warnings
about toxic gas on the Big Island's southern coastline after lava began flowing
into the ocean and setting off a chemical reaction. Lava haze is made of dense
white clouds of steam, toxic gas and tiny shards of volcanic glass. Janet/TAG
Babb/TAG, a geologist with the Hawaiian/TAG Volcano/TAG Observatory/TAG, says
the plume "looks innocuous, but it's not." "Just like if you drop a glass on
your kitchen floor, there's some large pieces and there are some very, very
tiny pieces," Babb/TAG said. "These little tiny pieces are the ones that can
get wafted up in that steam plume." Scientists call the glass Limu/TAG O/TAG
Pele/TAG, or Pele's seaweed, named after the Hawaiian goddess of volcano and
fire"
To do this I generally try to take a list at the back end as,
Hawaii
PAHOA
Kilauea
volcano
Janet
Babb
Hawaiian
Volcano
Observatory
Babb
Limu
O
Pele
and do a simple code as follows,
def tag_text():
corpus=open("/python27/volcanotxt.txt","r").read().split()
wordlist=open("/python27/taglist.txt","r").read().split()
list1=[]
for word in corpus:
if word in wordlist:
word_new=word+"/TAG"
list1.append(word_new)
else:
list1.append(word)
lst1=list1
tagged_text=" ".join(lst1)
print tagged_text
get the results and hand repair unwanted tags Hawaiian/TAG goddess of
volcano/TAG.
I am looking for a better approach of coding so that I need not spend time on
hand repairing.
Here, corpus i.e., the volcanoxt is the untagged text given in the first and
the wordlist, i.e., taglist
is list of words given just above the code.
I am using Python2.7.15 on MS-Windows 7.
If any one may kindly suggest a solution.
Thanks in advance.
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Usenet Gateway
On 05/23/2018 12:03 PM, Grant Edwards wrote: > Yes. NNTP and NNTP clients were designed from the ground up to deal > with ongoing discussions shared by large groups of people posting lots > of messages, and they're _very_ good at. > > Email was designed for one person sending one message to another. > > Over the years, people have cobbled together bits and pieces and > features to try to make it work for shared discussions. As a result, > mailing lists mostly work (especially for low-volume "groups") and are > pretty decent compared to "web forums" and other such wastes of > electrons. I agree web forums really suck for any kind of multi-user conversation. But mailing lists only working for low-volume groups? That's news to me. But maybe I'm not a typical email user. > But IMO email pales in comparison to NNTP when there are more than a > few messages per day per group. This is not my experience at all. I used to use Usenet back in the day, but for nearly the last two decades I've just used mailing lists, procmail or other kinds of server-side filtering (including GMail's filters) and a good IMAP email client like Thunderbird. I read several high-volume mailing lists this way and it works great. Each mailing list goes into its own IMAP folder. The result is identical to Usenet in functionality for me. In fact, Thunderbird can work with Usenet and IMAP all at the same time and you'd be hard pressed to see any difference. GMail's web interface and mailing lists... ugh. "Conversations" is not threading no matter what Google calls it! TL;DR version: with IMAP and server-side filtering of messages into folders, the experience with email and mailing lists is very good indeed. Mailing lists every bit as well as Usenet given a good e-mail client. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Usenet Gateway
Comparing to IMAP and Thunderbird: On 05/23/2018 04:39 PM, Chris Green wrote: > Well from other comments here it seems I'm not alone but anyway:- > > Proper threading etc. is built in check. > > It's automatically archived and one can search back through > threads for old postings, this is by design not an add on. point conceded, although I've never used this feature when I was on Usenet. > Kill files and other similar filtering abilities are part of the > user interface true, but I can get the same job done with thunderbird and my normal email filtering that I do. > Automatic handling of new messages and a means to say "I've read > everything here". Yes I can mark an entire thread as "read" in IMAP. > > I'm sure there's more -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Usenet Gateway
On Thu, 24 May 2018 05:44:26 -0600, Michael Torrie wrote: > I agree web forums really suck for any kind of multi-user conversation. Oh good. Because the Python core-devs are talking about moving to Github's web interface instead of email. Because Github is the future :-) https://circleci.com/blog/its-the-future/ https://hackernoon.com/its-the-future-again-cd038b72dd0b [...] > GMail's web interface and mailing lists... ugh. "Conversations" is not > threading no matter what Google calls it! Indeed. Gmail conversations are really good, right up to the moment when they're not and you want real threading, and then you're screwed seventeen ways to Sunday. I especially love the way occasionally Gmail will decide that an email you sent to Joe Blogs with subject line "Let's go fishing!" and an email you sent to Peter Parker with subject line "Where's the beef?" belong to the same conversation, and as far as I can tell there's no way to convince it otherwise. -- Steve -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Usenet Gateway
Michael Torrie wrote: > Comparing to IMAP and Thunderbird: > > On 05/23/2018 04:39 PM, Chris Green wrote: > > Well from other comments here it seems I'm not alone but anyway:- > > > > Proper threading etc. is built in > > check. > > > > > It's automatically archived and one can search back through > > threads for old postings, this is by design not an add on. > > point conceded, although I've never used this feature when I was on Usenet. > > > Kill files and other similar filtering abilities are part of the > > user interface > > true, but I can get the same job done with thunderbird and my normal > email filtering that I do. Possibly, but it's easier with most NNTP clients. I use both mailing lists (mutt) and Usenet (tin) and if I have the choice (as with Python) then I always go for Usenet/tin. > > > Automatic handling of new messages and a means to say "I've read > > everything here". > > Yes I can mark an entire thread as "read" in IMAP. > A *thread* yes, but not a whole list. I.e. if you read this using mail/IMAP you can mark a thread read but you can't mark *all* Python list messages read in one go can you? With tin/Usenet I look at the list of new subjects in the Python group, I may investigate a couple of threads, then I just hit 'C' and all of the Python group is marked as read. -- Chris Green · -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Usenet Gateway
On 2018-05-24, Michael Torrie wrote: > On 05/23/2018 12:03 PM, Grant Edwards wrote: >> But IMO email pales in comparison to NNTP when there are more than a >> few messages per day per group. > > This is not my experience at all. I used to use Usenet back in the day, > but for nearly the last two decades I've just used mailing lists, > procmail or other kinds of server-side filtering (including GMail's > filters) That's sort of my point: with NNTP, you don't _need_ procmail and three kinds of filtering in addition to your IMAP client. > and a good IMAP email client like Thunderbird. I read several > high-volume mailing lists this way and it works great. Each mailing > list goes into its own IMAP folder. The result is identical to > Usenet in functionality for me. In fact, Thunderbird can work with > Usenet and IMAP all at the same time and you'd be hard pressed to > see any difference. But you had to jump through hoops with procmail and server/client side filtering to get there. -- Grant Edwards grant.b.edwardsYow! I'm not available at for comment.. gmail.com -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Usenet Gateway
On Thu, May 24, 2018, at 09:10, Chris Green wrote: > > Yes I can mark an entire thread as "read" in IMAP. > > > A *thread* yes, but not a whole list. I.e. if you read this using > mail/IMAP you can mark a thread read but you can't mark *all* Python > list messages read in one go can you? With tin/Usenet I look at the > list of new subjects in the Python group, I may investigate a couple > of threads, then I just hit 'C' and all of the Python group is marked > as read. Yes, you can, at least with mutt. I have a handy alias (ESC + m) that accomplish precisely that. Cheers, -- José María (Chema) Mateos https://rinzewind.org/blog-es || https://rinzewind.org/blog-en -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Usenet Gateway
José María Mateos wrote: > On Thu, May 24, 2018, at 09:10, Chris Green wrote: > > > Yes I can mark an entire thread as "read" in IMAP. > > > > > A *thread* yes, but not a whole list. I.e. if you read this using > > mail/IMAP you can mark a thread read but you can't mark *all* Python > > list messages read in one go can you? With tin/Usenet I look at the > > list of new subjects in the Python group, I may investigate a couple > > of threads, then I just hit 'C' and all of the Python group is marked > > as read. > > Yes, you can, at least with mutt. I have a handy alias (ESC + m) that > accomplish precisely that. > OK, but you had to add that, it's built in with every NNTP client I've ever come across. -- Chris Green · -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Scripts not downloading Version 3.6.5
Hi! Yesterday I downloaded the latest version of Python, after some fiddling around with some command line, getting Python to open files etc, it wasn't able to find various pillows, so after a while, I decided to call it a night. I went to finish it off today, and discovered my computer had updated Windows, and so decided to uninstall everything and start from scratch. Upon redownloading Python 3.6.5, and moving to where I want it, I cannot use any of the functions required, mainly pip.exe. Upon looking in the scripts folder, it is completely empty. I have since tried to reinstall to no avail, and also attempted to do various repairs from the installer. How can I rectify this please? Kind regards, Chester -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Scripts not downloading Version 3.6.5
Hi! Yesterday I downloaded the latest version of Python, after some fiddling around with some command line, getting Python to open files etc, it wasn't able to find various pillows, so after a while, I decided to call it a night. I went to finish it off today, and discovered my computer had updated Windows, and so decided to uninstall everything and start from scratch. Upon redownloading Python 3.6.5, and moving to where I want it, I cannot use any of the functions required, mainly pip.exe. Upon looking in the scripts folder, it is completely empty. I have since tried to reinstall to no avail, and also attempted to do various repairs from the installer. How can I rectify this please? Kind regards, Chester -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
List replication operator
Python has a sequence replication operator: py> [1, 2]*3 [1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2] Unfortunately, it is prone to a common "gotcha": py> x = [[]]*5 # make a multi-dimensional list py> x [[], [], [], [], []] py> x[0].append(1) py> x [[1], [1], [1], [1], [1]] The reason for this behaviour is that * does not copy the original list's items, it simply replicates the references to the items. So we end up with a new list containing five references to the same inner list. This is not a bug and changing the behaviour is not an option. But what do people think about proposing a new list replication with copy operator? [[]]**5 would return a new list consisting of five shallow copies of the inner list. Thoughts? -- Steve -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List replication operator
On 05/24/2018 11:17 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: Python has a sequence replication operator: py> [1, 2]*3 [1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2] Unfortunately, it is prone to a common "gotcha": py> x = [[]]*5 # make a multi-dimensional list py> x [[], [], [], [], []] py> x[0].append(1) py> x [[1], [1], [1], [1], [1]] The reason for this behaviour is that * does not copy the original list's items, it simply replicates the references to the items. So we end up with a new list containing five references to the same inner list. This is not a bug and changing the behaviour is not an option. But what do people think about proposing a new list replication with copy operator? [[]]**5 would return a new list consisting of five shallow copies of the inner list. Thoughts? I think the same people making that mistake now would still do so because they didn't know they needed the special operator. [[] for _ in range(5)] works just as well without adding more syntax. -- Rob Gaddi, Highland Technology -- www.highlandtechnology.com Email address domain is currently out of order. See above to fix. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List replication operator
On 5/24/18 2:17 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: Python has a sequence replication operator: py> [1, 2]*3 [1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2] Unfortunately, it is prone to a common "gotcha": py> x = [[]]*5 # make a multi-dimensional list py> x [[], [], [], [], []] py> x[0].append(1) py> x [[1], [1], [1], [1], [1]] The reason for this behaviour is that * does not copy the original list's items, it simply replicates the references to the items. So we end up with a new list containing five references to the same inner list. This is not a bug and changing the behaviour is not an option. But what do people think about proposing a new list replication with copy operator? [[]]**5 would return a new list consisting of five shallow copies of the inner list. "shallow" will be the next problem. Do we also need this?: [[[]]]***5 # j/k --Ned. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List replication operator
On 2018-05-24 20:12, Ned Batchelder wrote: On 5/24/18 2:17 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: Python has a sequence replication operator: py> [1, 2]*3 [1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2] Unfortunately, it is prone to a common "gotcha": py> x = [[]]*5 # make a multi-dimensional list py> x [[], [], [], [], []] py> x[0].append(1) py> x [[1], [1], [1], [1], [1]] The reason for this behaviour is that * does not copy the original list's items, it simply replicates the references to the items. So we end up with a new list containing five references to the same inner list. This is not a bug and changing the behaviour is not an option. But what do people think about proposing a new list replication with copy operator? [[]]**5 would return a new list consisting of five shallow copies of the inner list. Why "**"? Why not "@"? [[]] @ 5 "shallow" will be the next problem. Do we also need this?: [[[]]]***5 # j/k I suppose the choice should be limited to 2 options: shallow copy and deep copy. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Some Issues on Tagging Text
First up, thank you for a well described problem! Remarks inline below.
On 24May2018 03:13, Subhabrata Banerjee wrote:
I have a text as,
"Hawaii volcano generates toxic gas plume called laze PAHOA: The eruption of Kilauea volcano in Hawaii sparked new
safety warnings about toxic gas on the Big Island's southern coastline after lava began flowing into the ocean and
setting off a chemical reaction. Lava haze is made of dense white clouds of steam, toxic gas and tiny shards of
volcanic glass. Janet Babb, a geologist with the Hawaiian Volcano Observatory, says the plume "looks innocuous,
but it's not." "Just like if you drop a glass on your kitchen floor, there's some large pieces and there are
some very, very tiny pieces," Babb said. "These little tiny pieces are the ones that can get wafted up in
that steam plume." Scientists call the glass Limu O Pele, or Pele's seaweed, named after the Hawaiian goddess of
volcano and fire"
and I want to see its tagged output as,
"Hawaii/TAG volcano generates toxic gas plume called laze PAHOA/TAG: The eruption of Kilauea/TAG volcano/TAG in
Hawaii/TAG sparked new safety warnings about toxic gas on the Big Island's southern coastline after lava began flowing
into the ocean and setting off a chemical reaction. Lava haze is made of dense white clouds of steam, toxic gas and
tiny shards of volcanic glass. Janet/TAG Babb/TAG, a geologist with the Hawaiian/TAG Volcano/TAG Observatory/TAG, says
the plume "looks innocuous, but it's not." "Just like if you drop a glass on your kitchen floor, there's
some large pieces and there are some very, very tiny pieces," Babb/TAG said. "These little tiny pieces are
the ones that can get wafted up in that steam plume." Scientists call the glass Limu/TAG O/TAG Pele/TAG, or Pele's
seaweed, named after the Hawaiian goddess of volcano and fire"
To do this I generally try to take a list at the back end as,
Hawaii
PAHOA
Kilauea
volcano
Janet
Babb
Hawaiian
Volcano
Observatory
Babb
Limu
O
Pele
and do a simple code as follows,
def tag_text():
corpus=open("/python27/volcanotxt.txt","r").read().split()
wordlist=open("/python27/taglist.txt","r").read().split()
You might want use this to compose "wordlist":
wordlist=set(open("/python27/taglist.txt","r").read().split())
because it will make your "if word in wordlist" test O(1) instead of O(n),
which will matter later if your wordlist grows.
list1=[]
for word in corpus:
if word in wordlist:
word_new=word+"/TAG"
list1.append(word_new)
else:
list1.append(word)
lst1=list1
tagged_text=" ".join(lst1)
print tagged_text
get the results and hand repair unwanted tags Hawaiian/TAG goddess of
volcano/TAG.
I am looking for a better approach of coding so that I need not spend time on
hand repairing.
It isn't entirely clear to me why these two taggings are unwanted. Intuitively,
they seem to be either because "Hawaiian goddess" is a compound term where you
don't want "Hawaiian" to get a tag, or because "Hawaiian" has already received
a tag earlier in the list. Or are there other criteria.
If you want to solve this problem with a programme you must first clearly
define what makes an unwanted tag "unwanted".
For example, "Hawaiian" is an adjective, and therefore will always be part of a
compound term.
Can you clarify what makes these taggings you mention "unwanted"?
Cheers,
Cameron Simpson
--
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Re: List replication operator
On 24May2018 18:17, Steven D'Aprano wrote: Python has a sequence replication operator: py> [1, 2]*3 [1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2] Unfortunately, it is prone to a common "gotcha": py> x = [[]]*5 # make a multi-dimensional list py> x [[], [], [], [], []] py> x[0].append(1) py> x [[1], [1], [1], [1], [1]] The reason for this behaviour is that * does not copy the original list's items, it simply replicates the references to the items. So we end up with a new list containing five references to the same inner list. This is not a bug and changing the behaviour is not an option. But what do people think about proposing a new list replication with copy operator? [[]]**5 would return a new list consisting of five shallow copies of the inner list. I think I'm against it. Shallow copies are just as easy to get wrong, for much the same reason that * can produce a surprise. So to me this introduces a new operator without much benefit, and possibly negative side effects (bcause it makes makes choosing an approach to sequence replication harder: which form should I use, per case)? The * is faster while the ** is safer... in very limited contexts. I would rather there were just one model of this replication, and the model we have is simple and direct, with exactly the same pitfalls and benefits as Python's function parameter default values. So people already need this issue in mind to work in the language. I'm also against the "**" spelling I find, for much the same reasons that people oppose allowing "=" and "==" in the same syntactic location: they're easy to get wrong through typing inaccuracy. Cheers, Cameron Simpson -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
convert a string to a variable
I am trying to convert a string to a variable.
I got cases 1 & 2 to work, but not cases 3 & 4.
The print statement in cases 3 & 4 reports the following:
builtins.AttributeError: type object 'animal' has no attribute 'tiger'
I am stuck on creating variables that can be accessed as follows.
animal.tiger
self.animal.tiger
Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Bruce
# Tested on Python 3.6.5
# Case 1: This works
indata = 'animal_tiger'
vars()[indata] = "Tigers, big and strong!"
print (animal_tiger)
# Case 2: This works
class animal():
def create (self, indata):
vars(self)[indata] = "Tigers, big and strong!"
print (self.animal_tiger)
tmp = animal()
tmp.create('animal_tiger')
#
# Case 3: This does not work
indata = 'animal.tiger'
vars()[indata] = "Tigers, big and strong!"
print (animal.tiger)
#Case 4: This does not work
class animal():
def create (self, indata):
vars(self)[indata] = "Tigers, big and strong!"
print (self.animal.tiger)
tmp = animal()
tmp.create('animal.tiger')
--
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Re: List replication operator
How would one make a multi-dimensional list now, with truly-separate sub lists? Is there just no way to do it with the replication operator? IE, would I just have to do X = [[], [], [], [], []] or perhaps write a function to insert new sub lists into a list, or...? Thanks > Paul C. > > -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List replication operator
Paul writes: > How would one make a multi-dimensional list now, with truly-separate sub > lists? Is there just no way to do it with the replication operator? IE, > would I just have to do > X = [[], [], [], [], []] The expressions in a comprehension are evaluated each time through. So this is another way to get that result: foo = [ [] for __ in range(5) ] -- \ “We now have access to so much information that we can find | `\ support for any prejudice or opinion.” —David Suzuki, 2008-06-27 | _o__) | Ben Finney -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List replication operator
On 2018-05-25 00:05, Paul wrote: How would one make a multi-dimensional list now, with truly-separate sub lists? Is there just no way to do it with the replication operator? IE, would I just have to do X = [[], [], [], [], []] or perhaps write a function to insert new sub lists into a list, or...? For a list of 5 separate lists: X = [[] for _ in range(5)] -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
cleaner version of variable, new line
hi just seeing if there is a cleaner way to write this. s1= "kitti" s2= 'kitti' i= 3 print(s1+ "\n" + "="*i + "^" + "\n" +s2) > kitti ===^ kitti -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Scripts not downloading Version 3.6.5
On 5/24/2018 11:31 AM, Chester Davies via Python-list wrote: Hi! Yesterday I downloaded the latest version of Python, after some fiddling around with some command line, getting Python to open files etc, it wasn't able to find various pillows, so after a while, I decided to call it a night. I went to finish it off today, and discovered my computer had updated Windows, and so decided to uninstall everything and start from scratch. Upon redownloading Python 3.6.5, and moving to where I want it, I cannot use any of the functions required, mainly pip.exe. Upon looking in the scripts folder, it is completely empty. I have since tried to reinstall to no avail, and also attempted to do various repairs from the installer. How can I rectify this please? Run python -m ensurepip --upgrade See https://docs.python.org/3/library/ensurepip.html#module-ensurepip There should have been an option to do this with 'repair', but anyway... -- Terry Jan Reedy -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List replication operator
On Thu, 24 May 2018 11:24:41 -0700, Rob Gaddi wrote: > On 05/24/2018 11:17 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: [...] >> But what do people think about proposing a new list replication with >> copy operator? >> >> [[]]**5 >> >> would return a new list consisting of five shallow copies of the inner >> list. >> >> >> Thoughts? >> >> >> >> > I think the same people making that mistake now would still do so > because they didn't know they needed the special operator. People aren't born knowing that * is usable with lists, so the fact that they won't be born knowing about ** either is not a point against it. Wherever newbies are learning about * will soon teach them to use ** for multi-dimensional lists as well. > [[] for _ in range(5)] works just as well without adding more syntax. This doesn't add more syntax. ** is already valid syntax. It is just adding a new method to sequences. For newbies, using a list comp is not obvious or easily discoverable. -- Steve -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Usenet Gateway
On 05/24/2018 07:10 AM, Chris Green wrote: > A *thread* yes, but not a whole list. I.e. if you read this using > mail/IMAP you can mark a thread read but you can't mark *all* Python > list messages read in one go can you? With tin/Usenet I look at > the list of new subjects in the Python group, I may investigate a > couple of threads, then I just hit 'C' and all of the Python group is > marked as read. Sure can. Just right click on the folder that holds all the python mailing list messages and click "mark folder read." -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Usenet Gateway
On 05/24/2018 07:01 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Thu, 24 May 2018 05:44:26 -0600, Michael Torrie wrote: > >> I agree web forums really suck for any kind of multi-user conversation. > > Oh good. Because the Python core-devs are talking about moving to > Github's web interface instead of email. Because Github is the future :-) > > https://circleci.com/blog/its-the-future/ > > https://hackernoon.com/its-the-future-again-cd038b72dd0b That's great news. Sigh. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Usenet Gateway
On 05/24/2018 08:20 AM, Grant Edwards wrote: > But you had to jump through hoops with procmail and server/client side > filtering to get there. True, but it takes maybe 30 seconds for each new list I sign up for, and then it's out of sight, out of mind. I already do a ton of filtering on my inbox anyway to move family messages to their own folder, etc. Hate to say it, but GMail actually makes it pretty fast and easy to set up the rule. Mostly one-click automatic "filter messages like this one." I agree NNTP is designed for all of this. I used to spend a lot of time on Usenet years ago when every uni had its own NNTP server. And thunderbird, my preferred client, can use NNTP. But the mailing list works and has, for me, almost no spam, so there's no real incentive for me to change. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: cleaner version of variable, new line
On 2018-05-25 01:50, asa32s...@gmail.com wrote:
hi just seeing if there is a cleaner way to write this.
s1= "kitti"
s2= 'kitti'
i= 3
print(s1+ "\n" + "="*i + "^" + "\n" +s2)
kitti
===^
kitti
When printing, I'd probably just go for something clear and simple:
print(s1)
print("=" * i + "^")
print(s2)
There's no need to cram it all onto one line.
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why do I get syntax error on if : break
here is the code, i keep getting an error, "break outside loop". if it is false
just exit function
def d(idx):
if type(idx) != int:
break
d('k')
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Re: cleaner version of variable, new line
On Thu, 24 May 2018 17:50:53 -0700, asa32sd23 wrote: > hi just seeing if there is a cleaner way to write this. > > s1= "kitti" > s2= 'kitti' > i= 3 > print(s1+ "\n" + "="*i + "^" + "\n" +s2) s = "kitti" i = 3 print(s, "="*i + "^", s, sep='\n') -- Steve -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: why do I get syntax error on if : break
On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 9:12 PM, wrote:
> here is the code, i keep getting an error, "break outside loop". if it is
> false just exit function
>
>
> def d(idx):
> if type(idx) != int:
> break
>
> d('k')
"break" (and "continue") are only meaningful inside for or while
loops. You do not have one of these inside your function. See
https://docs.python.org/3/reference/simple_stmts.html#break
--
boB
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Re: List replication operator
On Thu, 24 May 2018 15:12:09 -0400, Ned Batchelder wrote: > On 5/24/18 2:17 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: [...] >> But what do people think about proposing a new list replication with >> copy operator? >> >> [[]]**5 >> >> would return a new list consisting of five shallow copies of the inner >> list. >> > "shallow" will be the next problem. Do we also need this?: > > [[[]]]***5 # j/k You might be right: on further thought, I think I want deep copies, not shallow. Originally I thought that deep copies was an YAGNI. Have you *ever* seen anyone complain that * didn't make a deep copy of the list contents? I never have. But then I realised that if this works, people will surely try to use it to make three-dimensional lists as well as two, and for that we need deep copies. -- Steve -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: why do I get syntax error on if : break
On Thu, 24 May 2018 19:12:33 -0700, asa32sd23 wrote: > here is the code, i keep getting an error, "break outside loop". if it > is false just exit function break doesn't exit the function, it exits the loop. There is no loop to exit, so it is an error. Believe the compiler when it tells you there is a syntax error with your code. The compiler is always correct. -- Steve -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List replication operator
On Fri, 25 May 2018 08:02:38 +1000, Cameron Simpson wrote: > I'm also against the "**" spelling I find, for much the same reasons > that people oppose allowing "=" and "==" in the same syntactic location: > they're easy to get wrong through typing inaccuracy. Do you often write y = 2**x when you meant 2*x? In any case, I'm not wedded to the ** spelling, MRAB's suggestion of @ would work for me too. -- Steve -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List replication operator
On Thu, 24 May 2018 16:05:32 -0700, Paul wrote: > How would one make a multi-dimensional list now, with truly-separate sub > lists? Is there just no way to do it with the replication operator? Correct. Let's say you want to make a 1-D list with three items initialised to zero. This works brilliantly: py> [0]*3 [0, 0, 0] This seems like it ought to create a 3x3 2-D list: py> y = [[0]*3]*3 py> y [[0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0]] but alas, it's a trap: py> y[0][0] = 1 py> y [[1, 0, 0], [1, 0, 0], [1, 0, 0]] The current recommended solution is: py> y = [[0]*3 for _ in range(3)] py> y[0][0] = 1 py> y [[1, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0]] To get a three-dimensional 3x3x3 list is even more work: py> z = [[[0]*3 for _ in range(3)] for _ in range(3)] py> z[0][0][0] = 1 py> z[1][1][1] = 2 py> z[2][2][2] = 3 py> z [[[1, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0]], [[0, 0, 0], [0, 2, 0], [0, 0, 0]], [[0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 3]]] With my suggestion, we get: x = [0]**3 # one-dimensional y = [[0]**3]**3 # two-dimensional z = [[[0]**3]**3]**3 # three-dimensional Or there's MRAB's suggestion of using @ instead. The one-dimensional case can be optimized by using regular * replication instead of ** duplication, but that's an optimization for immutable objects. Here's a subclass that implements a simple version of this for testing: class ML(list): def __pow__(self, other): import copy L = [] for i in range(other): L.extend(copy.deepcopy(obj) for obj in self) return ML(L) And in use to generate a 3-D list: py> z = ML([ML([ML([0])**3])**3])**3 py> z[0][0][0] = 1 py> z[1][1][1] = 2 py> z[2][2][2] = 3 py> z [[[1, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0]], [[0, 0, 0], [0, 2, 0], [0, 0, 0]], [[0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 3]]] The repeated calls to ML() are ugly and are only there because the [] syntax creates ordinary lists, not my subclass. -- Steve -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: cleaner version of variable, new line
On Thursday, May 24, 2018 at 8:51:07 PM UTC-4, asa3...@gmail.com wrote: > hi just seeing if there is a cleaner way to write this. > > s1= "kitti" > s2= 'kitti' > i= 3 > print(s1+ "\n" + "="*i + "^" + "\n" +s2) > > > > kitti > ===^ > kitti more legible that way... thks -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List replication operator
how often would people here have needed this new operator, if it had existed? -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Raw string statement (proposal)
Hi. I've put some thoughts together, and need some feedback on this proposal. Main question is: Is it convincing? Is there any flaw? My own opinion - there IS something to chase. Still the justification for such syntax is hard. Raw string statement -- Issue - Vast majority of tasks include operations with text in various grades of complexity. It is relevant even by simple ubiquitous tasks, like for example defining file paths. String literals are interpreted - i.e. special character "\" may change the contents of a string. Python raw string r"" has the least amount of such cases : namely the inclusion of the quote character requires escaping. There is still no string type which is totally uninterpreted. As a result, any text piece that contains a quote must be *edited* before it can be used in sources. This may seem a minor problem, but if we count all cases, then the cumulative long-term impact may be significant. Also this problem may become more acute in cases related to: - development of text/code generators - and, in general, all text processing with a lot of literal data definition - proofreading Such applications may *require* a lot of embedded text definitions and this may even lead to frustration by proofreading of 'escaped' pieces and it adds necessity for keeping track of changes in these pieces. Using external resources for these tasks could help, but it may lead to even worse experience because of spread definitions and increased maintenance times. The most common solution in existing syntax - triple quoted strings and raw strings has some additional issues: - Data is parsed including indents. This may be a benefit for some cases (e.g. start lines always without any indent) but it also may become confusing for the readers when not aligned with containing block. So-called "de-denting" is also needed. - Triple quotes cause visual ambiguity in some edge-cases, e.g. when a string starts or ends with a quote. Also in many fonts a pair of single quotes is visually identical to one double quote. Proposal --- Current proposal suggests adding syntax for the "raw text" statement. This should enable the possibility to define text pieces in source code without the need for interpreted characters. Thereby it should solve the mentioned issues. Additionally it should solve some issues with visual appearance. Specification - Raw string statement has the following form: name >>> "condition_string" ... text ... in example: data >>> " " begin end #rest will parse the block by comparing each next line part with the string " " (2 spaces here). This will return: " begin\n end" -- Additional option: parse and remove: data >>> !" " begin end #rest Will parse by the same rule but also remove the string from the result: "begin\nend" - Additional option: parse *until* condition: data >>> ?"#eof" begin end #eof Will parse up to character sequence "#eof" (if it is on the same level) and returns: "begin\nend". The benefit of last option - the data can be put at zero level. It may be also prefered due to explicit terminator. General rules: - parsing is aware of the indent of containing block, i.e. no de-dention needed. - single line assignment may be allowed with some restrictions. Difficulties: - change of core parsing rules - backward compatibility broken - syntax highlighting may not work -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List replication operator
On 25May2018 02:25, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Thu, 24 May 2018 15:12:09 -0400, Ned Batchelder wrote: On 5/24/18 2:17 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: [...] But what do people think about proposing a new list replication with copy operator? [[]]**5 would return a new list consisting of five shallow copies of the inner list. "shallow" will be the next problem. Do we also need this?: [[[]]]***5 # j/k You might be right: on further thought, I think I want deep copies, not shallow. Originally I thought that deep copies was an YAGNI. Have you *ever* seen anyone complain that * didn't make a deep copy of the list contents? I never have. But then I realised that if this works, people will surely try to use it to make three-dimensional lists as well as two, and for that we need deep copies. In the deep copy scenario I am far far less opposed - _that_ is practically exponential memory use, and so the "**" is much more apt :-) I think I'm basicly against a shallow copy and not against a deep copy, because the shallow copy only pushes the issue out one layer. So, how to various forms of multidimensional lists play out as code? Cheers, Cameron Simpson -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List replication operator
On 25May2018 02:32, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Fri, 25 May 2018 08:02:38 +1000, Cameron Simpson wrote: I'm also against the "**" spelling I find, for much the same reasons that people oppose allowing "=" and "==" in the same syntactic location: they're easy to get wrong through typing inaccuracy. Do you often write y = 2**x when you meant 2*x? Well, no, but in that context they mean very different things. Your * vs ** mean very similar things. In any case, I'm not wedded to the ** spelling, MRAB's suggestion of @ would work for me too. Hmm, perhaps. I rarely use the * list replicator myself (though I used it just the other day to prefill a list with None). What's your commonest use case? And also, what's you're commonest use case which is prone the the issue a shallow copy would help with? Cheers, Cameron Simpson -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: convert a string to a variable
bruceg113...@gmail.com writes:
> I am trying to convert a string to a variable.
>
> I got cases 1 & 2 to work, but not cases 3 & 4.
>
> The print statement in cases 3 & 4 reports the following:
> builtins.AttributeError: type object 'animal' has no attribute 'tiger'
>
> I am stuck on creating variables that can be accessed as follows.
> animal.tiger
> self.animal.tiger
>
> Any suggestions?
> ...
> # Case 3: This does not work
> indata = 'animal.tiger'
> vars()[indata] = "Tigers, big and strong!"
> print (animal.tiger)
In the expression "animal.tiger", the "variable" is "animal",
not "animal.tiger". It is evaluated as follows:
determine the object bound to "animal", access its attribute "tiger".
Your error message tells you that the first step (object bound
to "animal") has been successful, but the result lacks the
attribute "tiger".
> #Case 4: This does not work
> class animal():
> def create (self, indata):
> vars(self)[indata] = "Tigers, big and strong!"
Here you want to define the attribute "tiger" (I think),
not "animal.tiger". Note that the "." in a Python expression
(not a string) separates two individual steps: determine
an object corresponding to the leftside to the "."; access
the attribute corresponding to the name following the ".".
> print (self.animal.tiger)
>
> tmp = animal()
> tmp.create('animal.tiger')
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Re: List replication operator
Steven D'Aprano schrieb am 25.05.2018 um 04:25: > On Thu, 24 May 2018 15:12:09 -0400, Ned Batchelder wrote: > >> On 5/24/18 2:17 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > [...] >>> But what do people think about proposing a new list replication with >>> copy operator? >>> >>> [[]]**5 >>> >>> would return a new list consisting of five shallow copies of the inner >>> list. >>> >> "shallow" will be the next problem. Do we also need this?: >> >> [[[]]]***5 # j/k > > You might be right: on further thought, I think I want deep copies, not > shallow. But how would that protocol work then? What would happen with a data structure like this: [( 1, [1, 2, 3] )] ** 3 ? Would it also deep copy the tuple, or ignore it? What about other, non-builtin sequence types? The '**' operator cannot just recursively call '**' on the items in the list, because they may not support it. Or they may support it, but not in the expected way. And limiting this to lists of lists seems rather arbitrary. What about subtypes of lists? Calling "copy.deepcopy()" internally instead of a recursive '**' doesn't seem safe either, because it also wouldn't know where to stop. Stefan -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List replication operator
On Fri, 25 May 2018 08:11:52 +0200, Stefan Behnel wrote: > Steven D'Aprano schrieb am 25.05.2018 um 04:25: [...] >> You might be right: on further thought, I think I want deep copies, not >> shallow. > > But how would that protocol work then? What would happen with a data > structure like this: > > [( 1, [1, 2, 3] )] ** 3 > > ? Would it also deep copy the tuple, or ignore it? It would deep-copy the items. It would do whatever copy.deepcopy() does, which is deep-copy the object *all the way down*. > What about other, non-builtin sequence types? I've concentrated on lists because that's usually the sequence type used. Adding ** (or @ if you prefer) could be made part of the sequence API if needed, but I'd be happy to start with lists and see if there is a demand to add it to other objects as well. > The '**' operator cannot just recursively > call '**' on the items in the list, because they may not support it. Or > they may support it, but not in the expected way. Nobody is talking about calling ** recursively. I gave a simple implementation. No recursion is needed, except inside deepcopy, which is already a solved problem. > And limiting this to lists of lists seems rather arbitrary. What about > subtypes of lists? Perhaps you have heard of inheritance? If lists support this, their subclasses will automatically support it too, unless you override the relevant methods. > Calling "copy.deepcopy()" internally instead of a recursive '**' doesn't > seem safe either, because it also wouldn't know where to stop. Of course it does. It stops when it has copied everything, all the way down. That's what it does. -- Steve -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List replication operator
On Fri, 25 May 2018 15:30:36 +1000, Cameron Simpson wrote: > So, how to various forms of multidimensional lists play out as code? With my suggestion, we get: x = [0]**3 # one-dimensional y = [[0]**3]**3 # two-dimensional z = [[[0]**3]**3]**3 # three-dimensional Or there's MRAB's suggestion of using @ instead of the ** operator. The one-dimensional case can be optimized by using regular * replication instead of ** duplication, but that's an optimization for immutable objects. Its pretty much harmless to write ** instead of * for the common case of a list filled with immutable ints or None. Here's a subclass that implements a simple version of this for testing: class ML(list): def __pow__(self, other): import copy L = [] for i in range(other): L.extend(copy.deepcopy(obj) for obj in self) return ML(L) And in use to generate a 3-D list: py> z = ML([ML([ML([0])**3])**3])**3 py> z[0][0][0] = 1 py> z[1][1][1] = 2 py> z[2][2][2] = 3 py> z [[[1, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0]], [[0, 0, 0], [0, 2, 0], [0, 0, 0]], [[0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 3]]] The repeated calls to ML() are ugly and are only there because the [] syntax creates ordinary lists, not my subclass. -- Steve -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: List replication operator
On Fri, 25 May 2018 02:45:38 +, Paul wrote: > how often would people here have needed this new operator, if it had > existed? It is common enough that it is a FAQ on the Python website. The list * operator isn't the most heavily used operator, but it does get used a bit. It comes up quite frequently in tutorials, Stackoverflow, etc. https://www.google.com/search?q=python+multidimensional+list -- Steve -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
