Re: pymacs?
Hi, why not try out emacs-for-python https://github.com/gabrielelanaro/emacs-for-python It's has everything included one needs as a python programmer on emacs and even if it's not your choice you can lookup pymacs configuration there. HTH && have a nice day Basti Am 17.11.2011 00:42, schrieb Andrea Crotti: After a long time, and since it was included iin python-mode, I wanted to try if I can get ropemacs working finally. I have tried many possible things, also in Emacs -Q, and I actually got it working only once, apparently by pure luck with Emacs -Q: (setq py-load-python-mode-pymacs-p nil) (setq ca-pymacs-path (expand-file-name "~/Emacs-configuration/python-mode/pymacs")) (add-to-list 'load-path ca-pymacs-path) (setenv "PYMACS_PYTHON" "python2.7") (require 'pymacs) (pymacs-load "ropemacs" "rope-") (setq ropemacs-confirm-saving 'nil) The problem is that this configuration doesn't use python-mode.el but the standard python.el, all my attempts to make this work on my normal configuration failed. Did anyone got both correctly working? Thanks.. -- Bastian Ballmann / Web Developer Notch Interactive GmbH / Badenerstrasse 571 / 8048 Zürich Phone +41 43 818 20 91 / www.notch-interactive.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Got some problems when using logging Filter
On Nov 16, 10:50 pm, Peter Otten <__pete...@web.de> wrote:
> sword wrote:
> > Thanks for your reply. I tried to edit the source a bit, now the
> > main.py looks like this:
> > #main.py
> > import logging
> > from logging import Filter
> > import a
> > import b
>
> > logging.basicConfig(level=logging.DEBUG)
> > root = logging.getLogger()
> > root.addFilter(Filter("GoneWithTheWind")) #so I suppose no log msg
> > would pass this filter
>
> > logger = logging.getLogger("main")
> > logger.debug("main process")
> > a.print_log()
> > b.print_log()
>
> >
> > And It still prints out all the log msg. :(
>
> Here's a little demo to explore how filtering works:
>
> $ cat demo.py
> import logging
> class Filter(logging.Filter):
> def filter(self, record):
> print "applying filter", self.name
> return True
>
> logging.basicConfig()
>
> loggers = [logging.getLogger(path) for path in ["", "a", "a.b"]]
> for logger in loggers:
> logger.addFilter(Filter("filter@" + logger.name))
>
> [handler] = logging.getLogger().handlers
> handler.addFilter(Filter("filter@handler"))
>
> for logger in loggers:
> logger.critical("whatever")
> $ python demo.py
> applying filter filter@root
> applying filter filter@handler
> CRITICAL:root:whatever
> applying filter filter@a
> applying filter filter@handler
> CRITICAL:a:whatever
> applying filter fil...@a.b
> applying filter filter@handler
> CRITICAL:a.b:whatever
> $
>
> As you can infer from the output only the filter(s) of the original logger
> and of the handler(s) are applied.
Thanks, so if I want to see my own log out of all logs produced by
different module in the project, I should addFilter to each
corresponding logger. I thought I could add Filter in root and filter
out only the interested info from it before.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: unit-profiling, similar to unit-testing
Am 16.11.2011 15:36, schrieb Roy Smith: It's really, really, really hard to either control for, or accurately measure, things like CPU or network load. There's so much stuff you can't even begin to see. The state of your main memory cache. Disk fragmentation. What I/O is happening directly out of kernel buffers vs having to do a physical disk read. How slow your DNS server is today. Fortunately, I am in a position where I'm running tests on one system (generic desktop PC) while the system to test is another one, and there both hardware and software is under my control. Since this is rather smallish and embedded, the power and load of the desktop don't play a significant role, the other side is usually the bottleneck. ;) What I suggest is instrumenting your unit test suite to record not just the pas/fail status of every test, but also the test duration. Stick these into a database as the tests run. Over time, you will accumulate a whole lot of performance data, which you can then start to mine. I'm not sure. I see unit tests as something that makes sure things run correctly. For performance testing, I have functions to set up and tear down the environment. Then, I found it useful to have separate code to prime a cache, which is something done before each test run, but which is not part of the test run itself. I'm repeating each test run N times, recording the times and calculating maximum, minimum, average and standard deviation. Some of this is similar to unit testing (code to set up/tear down), but other things are too different. Also, sometimes I can vary tests with a factor F, then I would also want to capture the influence of this factor. I would even wonder if you can't verify the behaviour agains an expected Big-O complexity somehow. All of this is rather general, not specific to my use case, hence my question if there are existing frameworks to facilitate this task. Maybe it's time to create one... While you're running the tests, gather as much system performance data as you can (output of top, vmstat, etc) and stick that into your database too. You never know when you'll want to refer to the data, so just collect it all and save it forever. Yes, this is surely something that is necessary, in particular since there are no clear success/failure outputs like for unit tests and they require a human to interpret them. Cheers! Uli -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: staticmethod makes my brain hurt
Am 17.11.2011 03:30 schrieb Roy Smith: When I run this (python 2.6.1): class C: @staticmethod def foo(): pass print "inside", foo, callable(foo) print "outside", C.foo, callable(C.foo) I get: inside False outside True Right. The reason is that on an attribute access, you get a __get__ call of the "real" attribute. That is, if your class has a "regular" method, it is stored there as a formal function. But if you access it (C.f), you get C.__dict__["f"].__get__(None, C) (not sure about the arguments, but you should get the idea). A functions __get__ returns a unbound or bound method, depending on its own arguments. With a static method, you don't want this to happen. So you wrap your "regular" function into a staticmethod object, which has a __get__() method itself just returning the wrapped function object. Look at this: >>> class C(object): pass ... >>> f=lambda *a:a >>> C.f=f >>> s=staticmethod(f) >>> C.s=s >>> # Now we test the access ... >>> f at 0x00B43E30> >>> s >>> C.f > >>> C().f of <__main__.C object at 0x00B48810>> >>> C.s at 0x00B43E30> >>> C().s at 0x00B43E30> >>> f.__get__(None, C) > >>> f.__get__(C(), C) of <__main__.C object at 0x00B48AD0>> >>> s.__get__(None, C) at 0x00B43E30> >>> s.__get__(C(), C) at 0x00B43E30> That's how things work. If you want to get back the "real" function from a staticmethod, you either call its __get__ with an arbitrary argument, or you do it the clean way and do a def deref(s): class C(object): s=s return s.s and so do a class User(Document): @staticmethod def _get_next_id(): [blah, blah, blah] return id user_id = IntField(required=True, default=deref(_get_next_id)) HTH, Thomas -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
problem in running script file (model-default.py)
When I run script file(i.e.,model-default.py) on IDLE interface,I m getting this error: read_al_373E> Protein specified in ALIGN_CODES(i) was not found in the alignment file; ALIGN_CODES( 1) = 2hyd -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to insert my own module in front of site eggs?
Roy Smith wrote: > I'm trying to use a custom version of mongoengine. I cloned the git > repo and put the directory on my PYTHONPATH, but python is still > importing the system's installed version. Looking at sys.path, it's > obvious why: > > $ echo $PYTHONPATH > /home/roy/songza:/home/roy/lib/mongoengine > pprint.pprint(sys.path) > ['', > '/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/selenium-2.0a5-py2.6.egg', > '/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/unittest2-0.5.1-py2.6.egg', > > '/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/pymongo-1.9-py2.6-linux-x86_64.eg > g', > '/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/virtualenv-1.5.2-py2.6.egg', > '/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/mongoengine-0.5.2-py2.6.egg', > '/home/roy/songza', > '/home/roy/lib/mongoengine', [...] > The system eggs come before my path. I found > http://mail.python.org/pipermail/distutils-sig/2006-July/006520.html in > the archives; it explains that eggs come before PYTHONPATH, but doesn't > explain how to get around this problem. I emphatically agree with > Michael Bayer who said: > >> I cant think of a possible scenario where a path would explicitly >> exist in PYTHONPATH, non-egg or egg, where the user would still like the >> system-wide installation to take precedence > > So, is there any way to get my local copy of mongoengine loaded instead > of the system egg? I could probably import sys, and do an egg-ectomy on > sys.path before importing mongoengine, but that's too gross to > contemplate. The only way I found is to edit the easy_install.pth file and comment the two lines starting with "import sys". You'll have to do that every time you install/upgrade an egg via easy_install (and maybe setuptools). In your case the right file should be /usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/easy_install.pth BTW: You could try pip (http://www.pip-installer.org/) instead of easy_install, it doesn't mess with sys.path. Ciao Marc -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: problem in running script file (model-default.py)
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:51 AM, Anushree Tripathi wrote: > When I run script file(i.e.,model-default.py) on IDLE interface,I m > getting this error: > read_al_373E> Protein specified in ALIGN_CODES(i) was not found in the > alignment file; ALIGN_CODES( 1) = 2hyd Such an error is entirely specific to the particular script you are running (and/or possibly due to a lack of command-line arguments since you're running it via IDLE). Either consult the script's documentation or author, or post the script here. We can't debug/troubleshoot code we don't have access to. Regards, Chris -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
ProgressBar - Python and Powershell
Hi All, I am using Python 2.7, windows Env. I have an Installer written in Python(45%) and Powershell(55%) which is used to install Virtual Machines at specific locations. It is single threaded. I am trying to implement a ProgressBar for this installer. So that the user will come to know the progress of the installation. I am using pypi progressbar module. The top script is in python which inturns calls powershell scripts using subprocess.call() and proceeds with the installation. I am taking a shared file between python and powershell, so that diff functions can update their %age completion level in to the file. Ex. Func1() updates it to 5%, func2() will add its own 5% to it.. and so on. At the start of the (main.py) script I am creating a thread whose sole purpose would be to keep "READ" a temp file for a new entry in it. Based on this entry I can have my thread update the progressbar on the console. My questions are: 1. Can I have a better shared mechanism between python and powershell.? As I am using a file here. Reading + writing in python and writing only in powershell. ! 2. Does this thread mechanism work.? I am yet to implement and test it.! :P What can be the possible shortfalls.? Thanks Nikunj Bangalore - India -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: staticmethod makes my brain hurt
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 09:37, Ian Kelly wrote: > On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 11:44 PM, Dotan Cohen wrote: >> Try this (untested): >> >> class C: >> @staticmethod >> def foo(): >> pass >> >> print "inside", C.foo, callable(C.foo) > > If you had tested this, you would have found that you get a NameError, > since C is not yet bound inside the class block where you define it. > I hadn't tested, I'm at work far from Idle. Just shooting from the hip. For that matter, though, this does work in Java (I'm pretty sure but again, untested right now). -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: staticmethod makes my brain hurt
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 10:13 PM, Dotan Cohen wrote: > I'm at work far from Idle. Taken out of context, I'm sure your boss is pleased. :) ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: unit-profiling, similar to unit-testing
In article , Ulrich Eckhardt wrote: > Yes, this is surely something that is necessary, in particular since > there are no clear success/failure outputs like for unit tests and they > require a human to interpret them. As much as possible, you want to automate things so no human intervention is required. For example, let's say you have a test which calls foo() and times how long it takes. You've already mentioned that you run it N times and compute some basic (min, max, avg, sd) stats. So far, so good. The next step is to do some kind of regression against past results. Once you've got a bunch of historical data, it should be possible to look at today's numbers and detect any significant change in performance. Much as I loathe the bureaucracy and religious fervor which has grown up around Six Sigma, it does have some good tools. You might want to look into control charts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_chart). You think you've got the test environment under control, do you? Try plotting a month's worth of run times for a particular test on a control chart and see what it shows. Assuming your process really is under control, I would write scripts that did the following kinds of analysis: 1) For a given test, do a linear regression of run time vs date. If the line has any significant positive slope, you want to investigate why. 2) You already mentioned, "I would even wonder if you can't verify the behaviour agains an expected Big-O complexity somehow". Of course you can. Run your test a bunch of times with different input sizes. I would try something like a 1-2-5 progression over several decades (i.e. input sizes of 10, 20, 50, 100, 200, 500, 1000, etc) You will have to figure out what an appropriate range is, and how to generate useful input sets. Now, curve fit your performance numbers to various shape curves and see what correlation coefficient you get. All that being said, in my experience, nothing beats plotting your data and looking at it. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to insert my own module in front of site eggs?
In article <1s1fp8-6la@pluto.solar-empire.de>, Marc Christiansen wrote: > > So, is there any way to get my local copy of mongoengine loaded instead > > of the system egg? I could probably import sys, and do an egg-ectomy on > > sys.path before importing mongoengine, but that's too gross to > > contemplate. > > The only way I found is to edit the easy_install.pth file and comment > the two lines starting with "import sys". You'll have to do that every > time you install/upgrade an egg via easy_install (and maybe setuptools). > In your case the right file should be > /usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/easy_install.pth > > BTW: You could try pip (http://www.pip-installer.org/) instead of > easy_install, it doesn't mess with sys.path. But, you're talking about installers. I'm talking about if I've already got something installed, how do I force one particular python process to pull in a local copy of a module in preference to the installed one? In some cases, I own the machine and can make changes to /usr/local/lib if I want to. But what about on a shared machine? I don't want to (or perhaps can't) play with what's in /usr/local/lib just to make my stuff load first. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to insert my own module in front of site eggs?
Roy Smith wrote: > In some cases, I own the machine and can make changes to /usr/local/lib > if I want to. But what about on a shared machine? I don't want to (or > perhaps can't) play with what's in /usr/local/lib just to make my stuff > load first. > Have you considered running your code in a virtualenv? http://pypi.python.org/pypi/virtualenv -- Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Use and usefulness of the as syntax
Le 12/11/2011 13:29, Arnaud Delobelle a écrit : -- The second case seems to be rather widespread and causes math attribute to be private but I don't figure out why this matters. This way math doesn't get bound in the global namespace when doing "from module import *" To contextualize more, I guess you are referring to the following situation : # a.py import math as _math # b.py from a import * print _math.sin(0) # raise a NameError print math.sin(0)# raise a NameError so the as syntax is also seful for hiding name, isn'it ? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Use and usefulness of the as syntax
Thanks to all Le 12/11/2011 13:27, Chris Angelico a écrit : > On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:56 PM, candide wrote: >> import foo as f >> >> equivalent to >> >> import foo >> f = foo >> > > Not quite, it's closer to: > > import foo > f = foo > del foo > Le 12/11/2011 13:43, Tim Chase a écrit : > On 11/12/11 05:56, candide wrote: >> First, could you confirm the following syntax >> >> import foo as f >> >> equivalent to >> >> import foo >> f = foo > > and the issuing "del foo" > Correct, I missed this point : I didn't realize that importing is also binding. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
Months ago 2.5.2 stopped functioning on my Win7 PC, so a few days ago I uninstalled and installed. Same problem. If one right-clicks on a py file, IDLE is not shown in the menu as Edit with IDLE. After playing with matters I gave up, and uninstalled 2.5.2 and turned to 2.7.2. Same results. If I look at a 2.4 install on my laptop, I get the desired reference to Edit with IDLE. My guess is that Win 7 is behind this. If so, it's good-bye Python. Comments? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to insert my own module in front of site eggs?
Roy Smith writes: > But, you're talking about installers. I'm talking about if I've already > got something installed, how do I force one particular python process to > pull in a local copy of a module in preference to the installed one? > > In some cases, I own the machine and can make changes to /usr/local/lib > if I want to. But what about on a shared machine? I don't want to (or > perhaps can't) play with what's in /usr/local/lib just to make my stuff > load first. Maybe I'm missing something - but if I want to do this I just mess about with sys.path at the top of my python script/program. Always seems to work... is there a situation in which it doesn't? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
On Friday, November 18, 2011 12:55 AM, W. eWatson wrote: Months ago 2.5.2 stopped functioning on my Win7 PC, so a few days ago I uninstalled and installed. Same problem. If one right-clicks on a py file, IDLE is not shown in the menu as Edit with IDLE. After playing with matters I gave up, and uninstalled 2.5.2 and turned to 2.7.2. Same results. If I look at a 2.4 install on my laptop, I get the desired reference to Edit with IDLE. My guess is that Win 7 is behind this. If so, it's good-bye Python. Comments? Why not good-bye Windows ? Actually you may want to try Vim, or gVim in Windows. I think the people who use IDLE is with really good patient. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
On 17 Nov, 18:55, "W. eWatson" wrote: > Months ago 2.5.2 stopped functioning on my Win7 PC, so a few days ago I > uninstalled and installed. Same problem. If one right-clicks on a py > file, IDLE is not shown in the menu as Edit with IDLE. After playing > with matters I gave up, and uninstalled 2.5.2 and turned to 2.7.2. Same > results. > > If I look at a 2.4 install on my laptop, I get the desired reference to > Edit with IDLE. > > My guess is that Win 7 is behind this. If so, it's good-bye Python. > > Comments? I prefer "fail fast" approach too. If right-click not working on Win7 is your reason to say good bye to Python then better you do so. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
In "W. eWatson" writes: > Months ago 2.5.2 stopped functioning on my Win7 PC, so a few days ago I > uninstalled and installed. Same problem. If one right-clicks on a py > file, IDLE is not shown in the menu as Edit with IDLE. After playing > with matters I gave up, and uninstalled 2.5.2 and turned to 2.7.2. Same > results. I'm not sure I'd describe the lack of IDLE in a context menu as "python not functioning". > If I look at a 2.4 install on my laptop, I get the desired reference to > Edit with IDLE. > My guess is that Win 7 is behind this. If so, it's good-bye Python. It was working originally, right? So the problem can't really just be Win 7. Can you add IDLE manually to the associated applications list? -- John Gordon A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs gor...@panix.com B is for Basil, assaulted by bears -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies" -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Twisted 11.1.0 Released
On behalf of Twisted Matrix Laboratories, I am pleased to announce the release of Twisted 11.1. Highlights of the 185 tickets closed include: * The poll reactor as default where applicable, instead of select everywhere. * A new SSL implementation only relying on OpenSSL for cryptography, (not I/O) making it more robust. * Several improvements to the fresh HTTP/1.1 client implementation, including proxy and cookie support. * My personal favorite: a new howto has been published on test-driven development with Twisted. * A special mention to the new abortConnection support on TCP and SSL connections, heroically pushed by Itamar and Jean-Paul, and the oldest ticket closed by this release. This is the last release supporting Python 2.4 (the support on Windows stopped with 11.0). For more information, see the NEWS file here: http://twistedmatrix.com/Releases/Twisted/11.1/NEWS.txt Download it now from: http://pypi.python.org/packages/source/T/Twisted/Twisted-11.1.0.tar.bz2 or http://pypi.python.org/packages/2.5/T/Twisted/Twisted-11.1.0.win32-py2.5.msi or http://pypi.python.org/packages/2.6/T/Twisted/Twisted-11.1.0.win32-py2.6.msi or http://pypi.python.org/packages/2.7/T/Twisted/Twisted-11.1.0.win32-py2.7.msi Thanks to the supporters of the Twisted Software Foundation and to the many contributors for this release. -- Thomas -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 08:55:36 -0800, W. eWatson wrote: > Months ago 2.5.2 stopped functioning on my Win7 PC, so a few days ago I > uninstalled and installed. Same problem. If one right-clicks on a py > file, IDLE is not shown in the menu as Edit with IDLE. After playing > with matters I gave up, and uninstalled 2.5.2 and turned to 2.7.2. Same > results. I find I get better results when I stop "playing with matters" and start treating them seriously :) If you need help fixing the file associations on your Windows 7 machine, you'll probably get better advice on a dedicated Windows forum. Or even by googling for instructions: https://duckduckgo.com/html/?q=how%20to%20fix%20windows%207%20file%20associations > If I look at a 2.4 install on my laptop, I get the desired reference to > Edit with IDLE. So you're saying that Python is working on one laptop, but not on another machine? Okay. Great. What's your point? You have a messed up installation on your Windows 7 box, and a working installation on your laptop. What would you like us to do? Commiserate? Laugh? Look into a crystal ball and tell you what you did wrong? Can you run Python from the command line? If so, that tells you that Python is installed and working correctly. If Python is installed, then it sounds like a matter of getting the file associates fixed in the registry. Good luck. > My guess is that Win 7 is behind this. If so, it's good-bye Python. > > Comments? Why not good-bye Windows 7? This being Windows, have you run a virus scan with up to date definitions? Then run a *second* scan, using a completely different scanner, because no scanner can catch all viruses? And then run a good anti-spyware program. All of which will be irrelevant 99 times out of 100, but you could be the 1% ... -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
On 11/17/2011 9:39 AM, John Gordon wrote: In "W. eWatson" writes: Months ago 2.5.2 stopped functioning on my Win7 PC, so a few days ago I uninstalled and installed. Same problem. If one right-clicks on a py file, IDLE is not shown in the menu as Edit with IDLE. After playing with matters I gave up, and uninstalled 2.5.2 and turned to 2.7.2. Same results. I'm not sure I'd describe the lack of IDLE in a context menu as "python not functioning". If I look at a 2.4 install on my laptop, I get the desired reference to Edit with IDLE. My guess is that Win 7 is behind this. If so, it's good-bye Python. It was working originally, right? So the problem can't really just be Win 7. Can you add IDLE manually to the associated applications list? Not successfully. I tried it and pointed to idle.pyw. It gave a Invalid Win32 app. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
On 11/17/2011 9:39 AM, John Gordon wrote: In "W. eWatson" writes: Months ago 2.5.2 stopped functioning on my Win7 PC, so a few days ago I uninstalled and installed. Same problem. If one right-clicks on a py file, IDLE is not shown in the menu as Edit with IDLE. After playing with matters I gave up, and uninstalled 2.5.2 and turned to 2.7.2. Same results. I'm not sure I'd describe the lack of IDLE in a context menu as "python not functioning". Well, yes, and I can run it from the command line. If I look at a 2.4 install on my laptop, I get the desired reference to Edit with IDLE. My guess is that Win 7 is behind this. If so, it's good-bye Python. This has been a nagging problem for far too long. I see no reason why a simple install should make such a difference with the way I get to IDLE. Maybe few people here like IDLE, but for my minimal needs, it's just fine. It was working originally, right? So the problem can't really just be Win 7. I installed it about April 2010, and it worked for months. I then stopped using it until around July 2011. It no longer worked in the IDLE sense. Who really knows? Can you add IDLE manually to the associated applications list? Tried that by sending it directly to idle.pyw, but then trying to get there through the Edit with menu caused a "invalid Win32 app." -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 7:31 AM, W. eWatson wrote: > I installed it [Windows 7] about April 2010, and it worked for months. I then > stopped > using it until around July 2011. It no longer worked in the IDLE sense. > Microsoft have broken things in many Windowses, and it's often hard to figure out whether the fault is with the Windows version or with the application. MS several times went to ridiculous effort to try to ensure that broken programs that ran under version X would still run under version Y, to the extent of being bug-for-bug compatible. If you're having issues, grab a spare computer, throw Linux on it (I recommend Ubuntu or Debian, others will have other preferred distros), and see if the issues remain. Or if you're having trouble with the GUI, try things from the command line (Windows's command interpreter is pretty weak compared to bash, but it's plenty powerful enough). ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: unit-profiling, similar to unit-testing
On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 09:36:40AM -0500, Roy Smith wrote: > In article <95bcp8-bft@satorlaser.homedns.org>, > Ulrich Eckhardt wrote: > > > Hi! > > > > I'm currently trying to establish a few tests here that evaluate certain > > performance characteristics of our systems. As part of this, I found > > that these tests are rather similar to unit-tests, only that they are > > much more fuzzy and obviously dependent on the systems involved, CPU > > load, network load, day of the week (Tuesday is virus scan day) etc. > > > > What I'd just like to ask is how you do such things. Are there tools > > available that help? I was considering using the unit testing framework, > > but the problem with that is that the results are too hard to interpret > > programmatically and too easy to misinterpret manually. Any suggestions? > > It's really, really, really hard to either control for, or accurately > measure, things like CPU or network load. There's so much stuff you > can't even begin to see. The state of your main memory cache. Disk > fragmentation. What I/O is happening directly out of kernel buffers vs > having to do a physical disk read. How slow your DNS server is today. While I agree there's a lot of things you can't control for, you can get a more accurate picture by using CPU time instead of wall time (e.g. the clock() system call). If what you care about is mostly CPU time, you can control for the "your disk is fragmented", "your DNS server died", or "my cow-orker was banging on the test machine" this way. \t -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
On 17/11/2011 20:31, W. eWatson wrote: On 11/17/2011 9:39 AM, John Gordon wrote: In "W. eWatson" writes: Months ago 2.5.2 stopped functioning on my Win7 PC, so a few days ago I uninstalled and installed. Same problem. If one right-clicks on a py file, IDLE is not shown in the menu as Edit with IDLE. After playing with matters I gave up, and uninstalled 2.5.2 and turned to 2.7.2. Same results. I'm not sure I'd describe the lack of IDLE in a context menu as "python not functioning". Well, yes, and I can run it from the command line. If I look at a 2.4 install on my laptop, I get the desired reference to Edit with IDLE. My guess is that Win 7 is behind this. If so, it's good-bye Python. This has been a nagging problem for far too long. I see no reason why a simple install should make such a difference with the way I get to IDLE. Maybe few people here like IDLE, but for my minimal needs, it's just fine. It was working originally, right? So the problem can't really just be Win 7. I installed it about April 2010, and it worked for months. I then stopped using it until around July 2011. It no longer worked in the IDLE sense. Who really knows? Can you add IDLE manually to the associated applications list? Tried that by sending it directly to idle.pyw, but then trying to get there through the Edit with menu caused a "invalid Win32 app." Are you trying to associate .pyw with idle.pyw instead of with pythonw.exe? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
On Nov 17, 10:31 pm, "W. eWatson" wrote: > On 11/17/2011 9:39 AM, John Gordon wrote:> In "W. > eWatson" writes: > > >> Months ago 2.5.2 stopped functioning on my Win7 PC, so a few days ago I > >> uninstalled and installed. Same problem. If one right-clicks on a py > >> file, IDLE is not shown in the menu as Edit with IDLE. After playing > >> with matters I gave up, and uninstalled 2.5.2 and turned to 2.7.2. Same > >> results. > > > I'm not sure I'd describe the lack of IDLE in a context menu as > > "python not functioning". > > Well, yes, and I can run it from the command line. > > >> If I look at a 2.4 install on my laptop, I get the desired reference to > >> Edit with IDLE. > > >> My guess is that Win 7 is behind this. If so, it's good-bye Python. > > This has been a nagging problem for far too long. I see no reason why a > simple install should make such a difference with the way I get to IDLE. > Maybe few people here like IDLE, but for my minimal needs, it's just fine. > > > > > It was working originally, right? So the problem can't really just be > > Win 7. > > I installed it about April 2010, and it worked for months. I then > stopped using it until around July 2011. It no longer worked in the IDLE > sense. > > Who really knows? > > > > > Can you add IDLE manually to the associated applications list? > > Tried that by sending it directly to idle.pyw, but then trying to get > there through the Edit with menu caused a "invalid Win32 app." idle.pyw is not executable in Windows, but you can right-click it, open, browse to pythonw.exe. Then it should work. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: unit-profiling, similar to unit-testing
On Nov 17, 4:03 pm, Roy Smith wrote: > In article , > Ulrich Eckhardt wrote: > > > Yes, this is surely something that is necessary, in particular since > > there are no clear success/failure outputs like for unit tests and they > > require a human to interpret them. > > As much as possible, you want to automate things so no human > intervention is required. > > For example, let's say you have a test which calls foo() and times how > long it takes. You've already mentioned that you run it N times and > compute some basic (min, max, avg, sd) stats. So far, so good. > > The next step is to do some kind of regression against past results. > Once you've got a bunch of historical data, it should be possible to > look at today's numbers and detect any significant change in performance. > > Much as I loathe the bureaucracy and religious fervor which has grown up > around Six Sigma, it does have some good tools. You might want to look > into control charts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_chart). You > think you've got the test environment under control, do you? Try > plotting a month's worth of run times for a particular test on a control > chart and see what it shows. > > Assuming your process really is under control, I would write scripts > that did the following kinds of analysis: > > 1) For a given test, do a linear regression of run time vs date. If the > line has any significant positive slope, you want to investigate why. > > 2) You already mentioned, "I would even wonder if you can't verify the > behaviour agains an expected Big-O complexity somehow". Of course you > can. Run your test a bunch of times with different input sizes. I > would try something like a 1-2-5 progression over several decades (i.e. > input sizes of 10, 20, 50, 100, 200, 500, 1000, etc) You will have to > figure out what an appropriate range is, and how to generate useful > input sets. Now, curve fit your performance numbers to various shape > curves and see what correlation coefficient you get. > > All that being said, in my experience, nothing beats plotting your data > and looking at it. I strongly agree with Roy, here. Ulrich, I recommend you to explore how google measures appengine's health here: http://code.google.com/status/appengine. Unit tests are inappropriate here; any single unit test can answer PASS or FAIL, YES or NO. It can't answer the question "how much". Unless you just want to use unit tests. Then any arguments here just don't make sense. I suggest: 1. Decide what you want to measure. Measure result must be a number in range (0..100, -5..5), so you can plot them. 2. Write no-UI programs to get each number (measure) and write it to CSV. Run each of them several times take away 1 worst and 1 best result, and take and average number. 3. Collect the data for some period of time. 4. Plot those average number over time axis (it's easy with CSV format). 5. Make sure you automate this process (batch files or so) so the plot is generated automatically each hour or each day. And then after a month you can decide if you want to divide your number ranges into green-yellow-red zones. More often than not you may find that your measures are so inaccurate and random that you can't trust them. Then you'll either forget that or dive into math (statistics). You have about 5% chances to succeed ;) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
On 11/17/2011 11:55 AM, W. eWatson wrote: Months ago 2.5.2 stopped functioning on my Win7 PC, so a few days ago I uninstalled and installed. Same problem. If one right-clicks on a py file, IDLE is not shown in the menu as Edit with IDLE. After playing with matters I gave up, and uninstalled 2.5.2 and turned to 2.7.2. Same results. If I look at a 2.4 install on my laptop, I get the desired reference to Edit with IDLE. My guess is that Win 7 is behind this. If so, it's good-bye Python. I installed 3.3.2 on a new Win 7 machine and Edit with IDLE works fine. However, I almost never use that with Explorer to open files. I have IDLE pinned to the task bar so it is one click to start. If I edit a file, I want to run it, so I want a shell window open anyway. I usually open files to edit with the first three entries under the File menu: New File, Open, or Recent Files. Once I open a file in a particular directory (usually with Recent Files), Open initially looks for files in the same directory, which is usually what I want. So say hello again to Python, especially Python 3. -- Terry Jan Reedy -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Monitoring/inventory client-server app
On 17-11-2011 5:17, snorble wrote: I'm writing a tool for monitoring the workstations and servers in our office. I plan to have a server and a client service that runs on each workstation and reports back to the server (heartbeat, disk free space, etc). So far I am considering XMLRPC, or a client service that just downloads a Python file and runs it. With XMLRPC I don't know how to easily add features without having to update every client. Also while playing with XMLRPC I learned that when you run a registered function, it runs it on the server. I was hoping it would run on the client, so that when I get the machine's computer name (or disk space, etc) it will return the client's info. It seems with XMLRPC I would have to hard code the functionality into the client (i.e. client gets it's computer name, then calls the XMLRPC function to pass it to the server)? I was hoping it would work more like, "pass some code to the client to be run on the client, and report it to the server". Almost XMLRPC in the reverse direction. With the download-and-run approach, it seems trivially easy to add new functionality to the clients. Just save the updated Python file to the server, and clients download it and run it. Are there any standard approaches to problems like this that can be recommended? Thank you. The security implications are HUGE when you are thinking about transferring and executing arbitrary code over the network. Avoid this if at all possible. But if you can be 100% sure it's only trusted stuff, things are not so grim. Have a look at Pyro, or even Pyro Flame: http://packages.python.org/Pyro4/ http://packages.python.org/Pyro4/flame.html Flame allows for very easy remote module execution and a limited way of transferring code to the 'other side'. Also what is wrong with running an XMLrpc server, or Pyro daemon, on your client machines? This way your central computer can call registered methods (or remote objects in case of Pyro) on the client and execute code there (that reports all sorts of stuff you want to know). Or have each client call into a central server, where it reports that stuff itself. Many ways to skin a cat. Regards, Irmen de Jong -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
On 11/17/2011 12:46 PM, spartan.the wrote: On Nov 17, 10:31 pm, "W. eWatson" wrote: On 11/17/2011 9:39 AM, John Gordon wrote:> In"W. eWatson"writes: Months ago 2.5.2 stopped functioning on my Win7 PC, so a few days ago I uninstalled and installed. Same problem. If one right-clicks on a py file, IDLE is not shown in the menu as Edit with IDLE. After playing with matters I gave up, and uninstalled 2.5.2 and turned to 2.7.2. Same results. I'm not sure I'd describe the lack of IDLE in a context menu as "python not functioning". Well, yes, and I can run it from the command line. If I look at a 2.4 install on my laptop, I get the desired reference to Edit with IDLE. My guess is that Win 7 is behind this. If so, it's good-bye Python. This has been a nagging problem for far too long. I see no reason why a simple install should make such a difference with the way I get to IDLE. Maybe few people here like IDLE, but for my minimal needs, it's just fine. It was working originally, right? So the problem can't really just be Win 7. I installed it about April 2010, and it worked for months. I then stopped using it until around July 2011. It no longer worked in the IDLE sense. Who really knows? Can you add IDLE manually to the associated applications list? Tried that by sending it directly to idle.pyw, but then trying to get there through the Edit with menu caused a "invalid Win32 app." idle.pyw is not executable in Windows, but you can right-click it, open, browse to pythonw.exe. Then it should work. right-click on junk.py gives me a menu. I select Open with, and ... hmmm, whoops, in the latest install, 2.7.2, I did not give it access to idle.pyw. My mistake above. I was talking about the previous 2.5.2 of install in Win7. Where I'm at is 2.7.2 now. However, I still find in very odd there is no Edit with IDLE when I right-click on junk.py. That's the way it worked on 2.5.2 on my XP and earlier, 2010, on Win7. Downright frustrating. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
On 11/17/2011 12:59 PM, MRAB wrote: On 17/11/2011 20:31, W. eWatson wrote: On 11/17/2011 9:39 AM, John Gordon wrote: In "W. eWatson" writes: Months ago 2.5.2 stopped functioning on my Win7 PC, so a few days ago I uninstalled and installed. Same problem. If one right-clicks on a py file, IDLE is not shown in the menu as Edit with IDLE. After playing with matters I gave up, and uninstalled 2.5.2 and turned to 2.7.2. Same results. I'm not sure I'd describe the lack of IDLE in a context menu as "python not functioning". Well, yes, and I can run it from the command line. If I look at a 2.4 install on my laptop, I get the desired reference to Edit with IDLE. My guess is that Win 7 is behind this. If so, it's good-bye Python. This has been a nagging problem for far too long. I see no reason why a simple install should make such a difference with the way I get to IDLE. Maybe few people here like IDLE, but for my minimal needs, it's just fine. It was working originally, right? So the problem can't really just be Win 7. I installed it about April 2010, and it worked for months. I then stopped using it until around July 2011. It no longer worked in the IDLE sense. Who really knows? Can you add IDLE manually to the associated applications list? Tried that by sending it directly to idle.pyw, but then trying to get there through the Edit with menu caused a "invalid Win32 app." Are you trying to associate .pyw with idle.pyw instead of with pythonw.exe? What does pythonw.exe do for me? I would think all associations would be correct after an install. The single thing I do not understand is why in my latest install of 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 (2.5.2 was uninstalled before going to 2.7.2) on Win7 that why a right-click on a py file does not show as a choice is "Edit with IDLE", as it does on my XP PC and my 2010 install of 2.5.2 on this Win 7 PC. To me that signals that something is wrong. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
On 11/17/2011 2:12 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: On 11/17/2011 11:55 AM, W. eWatson wrote: Months ago 2.5.2 stopped functioning on my Win7 PC, so a few days ago I uninstalled and installed. Same problem. If one right-clicks on a py file, IDLE is not shown in the menu as Edit with IDLE. After playing with matters I gave up, and uninstalled 2.5.2 and turned to 2.7.2. Same results. If I look at a 2.4 install on my laptop, I get the desired reference to Edit with IDLE. My guess is that Win 7 is behind this. If so, it's good-bye Python. I installed 3.3.2 on a new Win 7 machine and Edit with IDLE works fine. However, I almost never use that with Explorer to open files. I have IDLE pinned to the task bar so it is one click to start. If I edit a file, I want to run it, so I want a shell window open anyway. I usually open files to edit with the first three entries under the File menu: New File, Open, or Recent Files. Once I open a file in a particular directory (usually with Recent Files), Open initially looks for files in the same directory, which is usually what I want. So say hello again to Python, especially Python 3. I have not found any successful way to get to IDLE. It's on on the right-click of a py menu, and, if I go the ...lib/idle.pyw, it fails with a "invalid Win32 app" msg. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 16:03:14 -0800, W. eWatson wrote: > I have not found any successful way to get to IDLE. It's on on the > right-click of a py menu, and, if I go the ...lib/idle.pyw, it fails > with a "invalid Win32 app" msg. If you associate .pyw files with pythonw.exe, and then open idle.pyw, does it work? Failing that, go to your laptop where the associations are right, and see what they are, then duplicate the settings on your Windows 7 machine. -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to insert my own module in front of site eggs?
In article <874ny2fzn6@no-fixed-abode.cable.virginmedia.net>, Paul Rudin wrote: > Roy Smith writes: > > > > But, you're talking about installers. I'm talking about if I've already > > got something installed, how do I force one particular python process to > > pull in a local copy of a module in preference to the installed one? > > > > In some cases, I own the machine and can make changes to /usr/local/lib > > if I want to. But what about on a shared machine? I don't want to (or > > perhaps can't) play with what's in /usr/local/lib just to make my stuff > > load first. > > Maybe I'm missing something - but if I want to do this I just mess about > with sys.path at the top of my python script/program. Always seems to > work... is there a situation in which it doesn't? What if the first import of a module is happening inside some code you don't have access to? It just seems mind-boggling to me that PYTHONPATH doesn't preempt everything else. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to insert my own module in front of site eggs?
In article , Duncan Booth wrote: > Roy Smith wrote: > > > In some cases, I own the machine and can make changes to /usr/local/lib > > if I want to. But what about on a shared machine? I don't want to (or > > perhaps can't) play with what's in /usr/local/lib just to make my stuff > > load first. > > > > Have you considered running your code in a virtualenv? > http://pypi.python.org/pypi/virtualenv I do that for some projects. In fact, I suspect I will do that for all furture projects that I start from scratch. For this particular one, there's a lot of stuff already installed in the system that I need. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
On 17/11/2011 23:54, W. eWatson wrote: My mistake above. I was talking about the previous 2.5.2 of install in Win7. Where I'm at is 2.7.2 now. However, I still find in very odd there is no Edit with IDLE when I right-click on junk.py. That's the way it worked on 2.5.2 on my XP and earlier, 2010, on Win7. Downright frustrating. Well if I was still a windows administrator and you would be one of my users, I would first make sure that your profile or windows installation is not pooped as it definitively smells like that. After being reassured that this is not the case I would then search the interwebs for something like "extending right click context menu". Probably hitting something like this: http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-desktop/how-can-i-customize-right-click-mouse-context-menu/5ea7104f-2213-41b9-9933-83f25da086d1 And after that searching where this 'idle' you speak of is actually located, probably finding something like this: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/118260/how-to-start-idle-python-editor-without-using-the-shortcut-on-windows-vista Then it rest me to combine them both, after promising myself not to install one version of a particular program 'for all users' and then 'updating' for 'only me' as this can screw up the default settings quite badly. But hey I haven't been a win admin since I switched over to FreeBSD years and years ago. I find it immensely reassuring that the problems I encounter on my systems are all my fault, well actually that is just the same as with windows, just less obvious there. Luckily I am no longer an administrator either as I couldn't stand it anymore when users spill their frustrations, although perfectly understandable, unto those who are actually willing to help. Something to do with attitude or so, speaking if which, I do apologize for my own attitude, but given the choice of just ignoring you or lacing my post with patronization I though that the latter one was the least bad of them two. -- mph -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: unit-profiling, similar to unit-testing
In article , Tycho Andersen wrote: > While I agree there's a lot of things you can't control for, you can > get a more accurate picture by using CPU time instead of wall time > (e.g. the clock() system call). If what you care about is mostly CPU > time [...] That's a big if. In some cases, CPU time is important, but more often, wall-clock time is more critical. Let's say I've got two versions of a program. Here's some results for my test run: Version CPU Time Wall-Clock Time 1 2 hours 2.5 hours 2 1.5 hours 5.0 hours Between versions, I reduced the CPU time to complete the given task, but increased the wall clock time. Perhaps I doubled the size of some hash table. Now I get a lot fewer hash collisions (so I spend less CPU time re-hashing), but my memory usage went up so I'm paging a lot and my locality of reference went down so my main memory cache hit rate is worse. Which is better? I think most people would say version 1 is better. CPU time is only important in a situation where the system is CPU bound. In many real-life cases, that's not at all true. Things can be memory bound. Or I/O bound (which, when you consider paging, is often the same thing as memory bound). Or lock-contention bound. Before you starting measuring things, it's usually a good idea to know what you want to measure, and why :-) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
What exactly is "pass"? What should it be?
Hi folks, I'm trying to write tidy, modular code which includes a long-running process. From time to time I MIGHT like to check in on the progress being made by that long-running process, in various ways. Other times, I'll just want to let it run. So I have a section of code which, generally, looks like this: def _pass(*args): pass def long_running_process(arg1, arg2, arg_etc, report = _pass): result1 = do_stuff() report(result1) result2 = do_some_different_stuff() report(result2) result3 = do_even_more_stuff() report(result3) return result3 This does what I want. When I do not specify a report function, the process simply runs. Typically, when I do supply a report function, it would print something to stdout, or draw an update through a GUI. But this approach seems a tad cumbersome and unPythonic to me, particularly the part where I define the function _pass() which accepts an arbitrary argument list, and does nothing but... pass. This has led me to ask the question, what exactly IS pass? I played with the interpreter a bit. IDLE 2.6.6 No Subprocess >>> pass >>> pass() SyntaxError: invalid syntax >>> type(pass) SyntaxError: invalid syntax So, pass does not appear to be a function, nor even an object. Is it nothing more than a key word? And would there be any merit to having some syntactic sugar which allows pass to behave like the _pass() function I wrote, if it were called? As you can see, I'm programming in Python 2.6. I don't know whether pass is handled differently in Python 3. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: staticmethod makes my brain hurt
On Nov 17, 1:24 pm, Ethan Furman wrote: > If you do need to sometimes call it from a method then still leave off > the '@staticmethod', and give 'self' a default of 'None': > > def _get_next_id(self=None): > [blah, blah, blah] > return id > > user_id = IntField(required=True, default=_get_next_id) And if the OP needs it to be a staticmethod as well, he can just wrap the nested function: gen_next_id = staticmethod(_gen_next_id) I think I like this approach best. I'm annoyed that I forgot functions declared in a class scope were callable within the definition :) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Use and usefulness of the as syntax
On Nov 18, 1:48 am, candide wrote: > # a.py > import math as _math > > # b.py > from a import * > > print _math.sin(0) # raise a NameError > print math.sin(0) # raise a NameError > > so the as syntax is also seful for hiding name, isn'it ? Not exactly. It's the * import mechanism here that's ignoring any bindings that begin with an underscore. If you had: _dummy = 1 ...inside of a.py, it wouldn't be pulled in either. As you state later, 'as' is purely a binding convenience. Incidentally, you can still allow * import to bring in underscore- prefixed bindings by adding them to an __all__: __all__ = ['_dummy'] -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: What exactly is "pass"? What should it be?
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 6:18 PM, John Ladasky wrote: > Hi folks, > > I'm trying to write tidy, modular code which includes a long-running process. > From time to time I MIGHT like to check in on the progress being made by > that long-running process, in various ways. Other times, I'll just want to > let it run. So I have a section of code which, generally, looks like this: > > def _pass(*args): > pass > > def long_running_process(arg1, arg2, arg_etc, report = _pass): > result1 = do_stuff() > report(result1) > result2 = do_some_different_stuff() > report(result2) > result3 = do_even_more_stuff() > report(result3) > return result3 > > This does what I want. When I do not specify a report function, the process > simply runs. Typically, when I do supply a report function, it would print > something to stdout, or draw an update through a GUI. > > But this approach seems a tad cumbersome and unPythonic to me, particularly > the part where I define the function _pass() which accepts an arbitrary > argument list, and does nothing but... pass. Seems fine to me (good use of the null object pattern), although I might define _pass() to instead take exactly 1 argument, since that's all you ever call report() with in your example. > This has led me to ask the question, what exactly IS pass? I played with the > interpreter a bit. > > IDLE 2.6.6 No Subprocess pass pass() > SyntaxError: invalid syntax type(pass) > SyntaxError: invalid syntax > > So, pass does not appear to be a function, nor even an object. Is it nothing > more than a key word? Correct: http://docs.python.org/reference/simple_stmts.html#pass http://docs.python.org/reference/lexical_analysis.html#keywords Cheers, Chris -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: What exactly is "pass"? What should it be?
On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 1:18 PM, John Ladasky wrote: > def _pass(*args): > pass > > def long_running_process(arg1, arg2, arg_etc, report = _pass): > For some compactness at the expense of brevity, you could use a lambda: def long_running_process(arg1, arg2, arg_etc, report = lambda msg: None): Other than that, I think it's fine. (Actually, the lambda has a slight advantage in self-documentation; in the main function's definition it specifies that the 'report' argument is a function that takes one argument, the message. (Or whatever that argument is. Name it appropriately.) If you call your dummy function something else, it may help readability/self-documentation too. On the other hand, it may not. YMMV. ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: What exactly is "pass"? What should it be?
On 11/17/2011 6:45 PM, Chris Rebert wrote: On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 6:18 PM, John Ladasky wrote: Hi folks, I'm trying to write tidy, modular code which includes a long-running process. From time to time I MIGHT like to check in on the progress being made by that long-running process, in various ways. Other times, I'll just want to let it run. So I have a section of code which, generally, looks like this: def _pass(*args): pass def long_running_process(arg1, arg2, arg_etc, report = _pass): result1 = do_stuff() report(result1) result2 = do_some_different_stuff() report(result2) result3 = do_even_more_stuff() report(result3) return result3 This does what I want. When I do not specify a report function, the process simply runs. Typically, when I do supply a report function, it would print something to stdout, or draw an update through a GUI. But this approach seems a tad cumbersome and unPythonic to me, particularly the part where I define the function _pass() which accepts an arbitrary argument list, and does nothing but... pass. Seems fine to me (good use of the null object pattern), although I might define _pass() to instead take exactly 1 argument, since that's all you ever call report() with in your example. This has led me to ask the question, what exactly IS pass? I played with the interpreter a bit. IDLE 2.6.6 No Subprocess pass pass() SyntaxError: invalid syntax type(pass) SyntaxError: invalid syntax So, pass does not appear to be a function, nor even an object. Is it nothing more than a key word? It is a keyword that can appear in a position where a statement is required by the grammar but there is nothing to do. For example if .. then .. else .. where nothing happens in the else condition is effectively: if : else: pass Bourne shell has a similar construct with the colon statement : Another python example is where you need to catch an exception (or all exceptions but don't actually care about what they are) try: except: pass Correct: http://docs.python.org/reference/simple_stmts.html#pass http://docs.python.org/reference/lexical_analysis.html#keywords Cheers, Chris -- Dominic Binks: dbi...@codeaurora.org Employee of Qualcomm Innovation Center, Inc. Qualcomm Innovation Center, Inc. is a member of Code Aurora Forum -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
On Nov 18, 2:55 am, "W. eWatson" wrote: > Comments? Are you using the vanilla installer or ActiveState's ActivePython? I find the latter integrates better with Windows. Also, out of curiousity, 32 or 64 bit Windows? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to insert my own module in front of site eggs?
On Nov 18, 11:36 am, Roy Smith wrote: > What if the first import of a module is happening inside some code you > don't have access to? No import will happen until you import something. As long as you change sys.path before you do, all subsequent imports will use that path. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: What exactly is "pass"? What should it be?
John Ladasky writes: > So, pass does not appear to be a function, nor even an object. Is it > nothing more than a key word? Yes. Unlike some languages where the program is a collection of expressions, a Python program is a series of statements which themselves may or may not be expressions. http://docs.python.org/reference/lexical_analysis.html> -- \ “I tell you the truth: some standing here will not taste death | `\before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” —Jesus, | _o__) c. 30 CE, as quoted in Matthew 16:28 | Ben Finney -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
On 11/17/2011 03:31 PM, W. eWatson wrote: On 11/17/2011 9:39 AM, John Gordon wrote: Can you add IDLE manually to the associated applications list? Tried that by sending it directly to idle.pyw, but then trying to get there through the Edit with menu caused a "invalid Win32 app." You've been told repeatedly that building an association to idle.pyw is useless. It must be to something Windows understands, such as .exe, or .bat (or several other extensions, as I said in an earlier message) So why waste our time telling us yet again that it doesn't work? -- DaveA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
On 11/17/2011 7:59 PM, Dave Angel wrote: On 11/17/2011 03:31 PM, W. eWatson wrote: On 11/17/2011 9:39 AM, John Gordon wrote: Can you add IDLE manually to the associated applications list? Tried that by sending it directly to idle.pyw, but then trying to get there through the Edit with menu caused a "invalid Win32 app." You've been told repeatedly that building an association to idle.pyw is useless. It must be to something Windows understands, such as .exe, or .bat (or several other extensions, as I said in an earlier message) So why waste our time telling us yet again that it doesn't work? Because some people think that's a solution, and ask. It's not. It leads to an error message. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
On 11/17/2011 4:24 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 16:03:14 -0800, W. eWatson wrote: I have not found any successful way to get to IDLE. It's on on the right-click of a py menu, and, if I go the ...lib/idle.pyw, it fails with a "invalid Win32 app" msg. If you associate .pyw files with pythonw.exe, and then open idle.pyw, does it work? Failing that, go to your laptop where the associations are right, and see what they are, then duplicate the settings on your Windows 7 machine. Sounds like a good idea except I've not used associations in so long under XP, I have no idea where to start. Control Panel. My Computer Tools? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
On 11/17/2011 7:04 PM, alex23 wrote: On Nov 18, 2:55 am, "W. eWatson" wrote: Comments? Are you using the vanilla installer or ActiveState's ActivePython? I find the latter integrates better with Windows. Also, out of curiousity, 32 or 64 bit Windows? 64-bit and plain old python msi installer. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Monitoring/inventory client-server app
On Nov 17, 4:31 pm, Irmen de Jong wrote: > On 17-11-2011 5:17, snorble wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I'm writing a tool for monitoring the workstations and servers in our > > office. I plan to have a server and a client service that runs on each > > workstation and reports back to the server (heartbeat, disk free > > space, etc). > > > So far I am considering XMLRPC, or a client service that just > > downloads a Python file and runs it. > > > With XMLRPC I don't know how to easily add features without having to > > update every client. Also while playing with XMLRPC I learned that > > when you run a registered function, it runs it on the server. I was > > hoping it would run on the client, so that when I get the machine's > > computer name (or disk space, etc) it will return the client's info. > > It seems with XMLRPC I would have to hard code the functionality into > > the client (i.e. client gets it's computer name, then calls the XMLRPC > > function to pass it to the server)? I was hoping it would work more > > like, "pass some code to the client to be run on the client, and > > report it to the server". Almost XMLRPC in the reverse direction. > > > With the download-and-run approach, it seems trivially easy to add new > > functionality to the clients. Just save the updated Python file to the > > server, and clients download it and run it. > > > Are there any standard approaches to problems like this that can be > > recommended? Thank you. > > The security implications are HUGE when you are thinking about > transferring and executing arbitrary code over the network. Avoid this > if at all possible. But if you can be 100% sure it's only trusted stuff, > things are not so grim. > > Have a look at Pyro, or even Pyro Flame: > > http://packages.python.org/Pyro4/http://packages.python.org/Pyro4/flame.html > > Flame allows for very easy remote module execution and a limited way of > transferring code to the 'other side'. > > Also what is wrong with running an XMLrpc server, or Pyro daemon, on > your client machines? This way your central computer can call registered > methods (or remote objects in case of Pyro) on the client and execute > code there (that reports all sorts of stuff you want to know). Or have > each client call into a central server, where it reports that stuff > itself. Many ways to skin a cat. > > Regards, > Irmen de Jong I'm thinking maybe the client service will have a small number of generic features, such as reading WMI and SNMP values. That way the server still dictates the work to be done (i.e. XMLRPC returns which WMI/SNMP values to query), and the client remains relatively focused and straightforward. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Monitoring/inventory client-server app
Maybe take a look outside python: - Puppet On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 3:49 PM, snorble wrote: > On Nov 17, 4:31 pm, Irmen de Jong wrote: >> On 17-11-2011 5:17, snorble wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > I'm writing a tool for monitoring the workstations and servers in our >> > office. I plan to have a server and a client service that runs on each >> > workstation and reports back to the server (heartbeat, disk free >> > space, etc). >> >> > So far I am considering XMLRPC, or a client service that just >> > downloads a Python file and runs it. >> >> > With XMLRPC I don't know how to easily add features without having to >> > update every client. Also while playing with XMLRPC I learned that >> > when you run a registered function, it runs it on the server. I was >> > hoping it would run on the client, so that when I get the machine's >> > computer name (or disk space, etc) it will return the client's info. >> > It seems with XMLRPC I would have to hard code the functionality into >> > the client (i.e. client gets it's computer name, then calls the XMLRPC >> > function to pass it to the server)? I was hoping it would work more >> > like, "pass some code to the client to be run on the client, and >> > report it to the server". Almost XMLRPC in the reverse direction. >> >> > With the download-and-run approach, it seems trivially easy to add new >> > functionality to the clients. Just save the updated Python file to the >> > server, and clients download it and run it. >> >> > Are there any standard approaches to problems like this that can be >> > recommended? Thank you. >> >> The security implications are HUGE when you are thinking about >> transferring and executing arbitrary code over the network. Avoid this >> if at all possible. But if you can be 100% sure it's only trusted stuff, >> things are not so grim. >> >> Have a look at Pyro, or even Pyro Flame: >> >> http://packages.python.org/Pyro4/http://packages.python.org/Pyro4/flame.html >> >> Flame allows for very easy remote module execution and a limited way of >> transferring code to the 'other side'. >> >> Also what is wrong with running an XMLrpc server, or Pyro daemon, on >> your client machines? This way your central computer can call registered >> methods (or remote objects in case of Pyro) on the client and execute >> code there (that reports all sorts of stuff you want to know). Or have >> each client call into a central server, where it reports that stuff >> itself. Many ways to skin a cat. >> >> Regards, >> Irmen de Jong > > I'm thinking maybe the client service will have a small number of > generic features, such as reading WMI and SNMP values. That way the > server still dictates the work to be done (i.e. XMLRPC returns which > WMI/SNMP values to query), and the client remains relatively focused > and straightforward. > -- > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: What exactly is "pass"? What should it be?
On Thursday, November 17, 2011 6:45:58 PM UTC-8, Chris Rebert wrote: > Seems fine to me (good use of the null object pattern), although I > might define _pass() to instead take exactly 1 argument, since that's > all you ever call report() with in your example. Oops, I over-simplified the calls to my report() function. The truth is that report() can accept a variable argument list too. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: What exactly is "pass"? What should it be?
On Thursday, November 17, 2011 8:34:22 PM UTC-8, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: > On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 18:18:11 -0800 (PST), John Ladasky > declaimed the following in > gmane.comp.python.general: > > def _pass(*args): > > pass > > > This is the equivalent of > > def _pass(*args): > return None > > (functions with no explicit return statement implicitly return None) OK, that works for me, and now I understand. One of my questions was: would there be any merit to having the Python "pass" token itself defined exactly as _pass() is defined above? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 11:21 PM, W. eWatson wrote: > > On 11/17/2011 7:59 PM, Dave Angel wrote: >> >> On 11/17/2011 03:31 PM, W. eWatson wrote: >>> >>> On 11/17/2011 9:39 AM, John Gordon wrote: >>> Can you add IDLE manually to the associated applications list? >>> Tried that by sending it directly to idle.pyw, but then trying to get >>> there through the Edit with menu caused a "invalid Win32 app." >> >> You've been told repeatedly that building an association to idle.pyw is >> useless. It must be to something Windows understands, such as .exe, or >> .bat (or several other extensions, as I said in an earlier message) So >> why waste our time telling us yet again that it doesn't work? >> >> >> > Because some people think that's a solution, and ask. It's not. It leads to > an error message. Checking my Python install, there should be an idle.bat file in there too. Have you tried that? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: What exactly is "pass"? What should it be?
On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 4:07 PM, John Ladasky wrote: > One of my questions was: would there be any merit to having the Python "pass" > token itself defined exactly as _pass() is defined above? No, there wouldn't. The Python 'pass' statement is a special statement that indicates a lack of anything to execute; a dummy function call isn't this. What I would kinda like to see, though, is function versions of many things. Your basic operators exist in the 'operator' module, but the syntax is rather clunky; for comparison, Pike has beautifully simple (if a little cryptic) syntax: back-tick followed by the operator itself, very similar to the way C++ does operator overloading. In Python 2, back-tick has a special meaning. In Python 3, that meaning is removed. Is the character now available for this "function-version" syntax? ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: What exactly is "pass"? What should it be?
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 9:34 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 4:07 PM, John Ladasky wrote: >> One of my questions was: would there be any merit to having the Python >> "pass" token itself defined exactly as _pass() is defined above? > > No, there wouldn't. The Python 'pass' statement is a special statement > that indicates a lack of anything to execute; a dummy function call > isn't this. What I would kinda like to see, though, is function > versions of many things. Your basic operators exist in the 'operator' > module, but the syntax is rather clunky; for comparison, Pike has > beautifully simple (if a little cryptic) syntax: back-tick followed by > the operator itself, very similar to the way C++ does operator > overloading. > > In Python 2, back-tick has a special meaning. In Python 3, that > meaning is removed. Is the character now available for this > "function-version" syntax? Negative. I know this from personal experience. Things that will Not Change in Python 3000 (http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3099/ ): "No more backticks." Cheers, Chris R. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: What exactly is "pass"? What should it be?
On Nov 18, 12:59 pm, Chris Angelico wrote: > If you call your dummy function something else, it may help > readability/self-documentation too. Or replace the pass with a docstring for the same effect: def silent(*args): """Null Object to repress reporting""" -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
On Nov 18, 2:21 pm, "W. eWatson" wrote: > Because some people think that's a solution, and ask. It's not. It > leads to an error message. No, people are saying "manually add IDLE _the correct way that Windows can recognise_", not recommending you stuff random .pyw files into the context menu and hope they work. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: What exactly is "pass"? What should it be?
On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 21:07:23 -0800, John Ladasky wrote:
> One of my questions was: would there be any merit to having the Python
> "pass" token itself defined exactly as _pass() is defined above?
No.
The pass statement compiles to nothing at all. Your _pass() function
compiles to a function object, which needs to be looked up at run time,
then called, all of which takes time and memory.
To satisfy the compiler, but do nothing, the pass statement should stay a
statement. When you need a "do nothing" function, either define one (two
lines) in your application, or use a lambda in place (lambda *args:
None). Either way, it is too trivial to be a built-in.
By the way, to answer your earlier question "what is pass?", you could do
this in the interactive interpreter:
help("pass")
--
Steven
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to insert my own module in front of site eggs?
Roy Smith writes: > In article <874ny2fzn6@no-fixed-abode.cable.virginmedia.net>, > Paul Rudin wrote: > >> >> Maybe I'm missing something - but if I want to do this I just mess about >> with sys.path at the top of my python script/program. Always seems to >> work... is there a situation in which it doesn't? > > What if the first import of a module is happening inside some code you > don't have access to? If you change sys.path first - before you do any imports - then any other imports will surely come from the first thing on sys.path (unless something else you import also changes sys.path)? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Both Python 2.5.2 and 2.7.2 flop the same way under Win 7
On 11/17/2011 7:03 PM, W. eWatson wrote: I have not found any successful way to get to IDLE. Use the start menu to start IDLE once. Then pin it to your taskbar. If you do not have STart/ all programs / Python / IDLE, then your installation is bad. As for the right click problem, you probably have something screwy in the registry. The python installer (or uninstaller) will not fix it (my experience on my old xp machine). You will have to do so manually. -- Terry Jan Reedy -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Passing DLL handle as an argument (in Windows)
Is it possible to pass my own dll's (already loaded) handle as an argument to load/attach to the very same instance of dll? Thing is that I've done plugin (dll) to a host app and the SDK's function pointers are assigned once the dll is loaded in the host process. I'd like to fire up python code with ShellExecuteEx from my plugin dll and expose (wrap) these SDK funcs to that script. If I just load the dll in python it will be different instance and the SDK function pointers are all NULL. I tried passing the dll handle as lpParameter but in vain. Is this ShellExecute + dll handle passing even possible or do I need to take a totally different route? What route that would be? Doesn't have to be portable, just so it works in Windows environment. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
