Re: Egos, heartlessness, and limitations
On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 22:08:17 -0700, John Ladasky wrote: > I may regret wading into a flame-war, but... > > I got started with Python in 2002. I took one look at TKinter, said > "yuck!", and went searching for something else. Now, wxPython is a bit > clunky for a Python programmer because of its strong ties to C++ -- but > that's what I chose, and it has served me well. I would like to see > wxPython become the default GUI for our very fine programming language. So would many others, but unfortunately there are complications that more or less rule out wxPython being supplied as part of the standard library. For example, that would require the wxPython developers agreeing to synchronizing wxPython updates with Python's schedule, and that's unlikely to happen. Fortunately, if you're using a recent Linux or a Mac with MacPorts, installing wxPython should never be more than one command line (or half a dozen clicks) away. Windows users aren't quite so lucky, but still, it's not like installing it is a major hassle. Also, in more recent versions of Python, Tkinter has had something of a face lift with the introduction of "tiled TK" with native-looking widgets. -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [OT] Free software versus software idea patents
geremy condra wrote: Having said that, I have a greater respect for mathematics than I do for my own economic views, and I don't like seeing it become a political football. If you can prove something,*prove it*. If you cannot- no matter how close you might feel you are- don't claim that math says you're right. Fair enough. http://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.php?story=2009151305785 With your background, you will have no problem with this text... although, and I do apologize, it is a long text... scroll down and begin reading at the heading: An Explanation of Computation Theory for Lawyers By PolR The write-up is excellent, written as well or better than I could write it myself, and is very clear and concise... yes, even a lawyer can understand it. Kind regards, m harris -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Free software versus software idea patents
geremy condra wrote: > But on a serious note, I did wonder who would be the first jouster to offer > the argumentum ad hominem? ... ah, sticks and stones... > My major professor once told me, "You know you've won the argument when they > start calling you names!" I think your professor should have said "you know you've won the argument when you can prove it". http://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.php?story=2009151305785 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5jKMEB4hHE kind regards, m harris -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Postmortem on Unladen Swallow
> There's a postmortem on the failure of Unladen Swallow by one of the > developers at: > > http://qinsb.blogspot.com/2011/03/unladen-swallow-retrospective.html This outcome of things is really a testament to the hard work of the pypy folks. They, a volunteer bunch, beat google! And that's something to be proud of, I'd think. Cheers, Daniel -- Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Egos, heartlessness, and limitations
On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Ryan Kelly wrote: > On Thu, 2011-04-14 at 11:46 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: >> Wait... so where do the Python experts hang out? > > Don't panic, there are plenty of experts here :-) > > It's an oft-cited troll complaint that many python big-wigs (Guido, > Raymond H, et al) don't subscribe to python-list. Apart from Guido, I wouldn't even recognize their names. (I have no idea who Raymond H is or what his position in the community is.) Does this make me a bad Python programmer? I don't think so; just makes me not a major member of the community. (Apologies to Raymond, I don't mean to slight your contributions; but I would respect you on the basis of your posts on this list, regardless of your Subversion contribs.) > It's also an oft-cited troll conspiracy that Guido hangs out on > python-list and posts under various pseudonyms. I think it would be > kinda fun if he did... What if he's rantingrick? He would SO be laughing right now Chris Angelico -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
about soaplib demo's time latency
I just follow the instructions below - http://soaplib.github.com/soaplib/2_0/pages/helloworld.html to establish a soap server. After starting the server, everytime I run the client script, I fetch the response nearly 20 seconds afterward. Why this happen? I just want the server send response asap then the client will show the result to me immediately. please give some hints. thanks -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [OT] Free software versus software idea patents
On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 4:04 PM, harrismh777 wrote: > > How many web crawlers have you built? Are there any web programmers out > there who need a web bot to hit multiple sites zillions of times a month > from different places on earth to 'up' the number of hits for economic > reasons? I've seen my share of this. A well-behaved spider will (a) have a UA that identifies itself (as a bot, and preferably as itself - eg "GoogleBot", etc - some even go so far as to include a URL for more info), and (b) start by fetching /robots.txt before they go any further. Servers can recognize properly-built crawlers. And improperly-built crawlers, deliberately trying to hammer a server to lie about browser stats? Seriously, do you think people actually care THAT much? > How mamy times have you altered the identity of your web browser so that > the web site would 'work'? You know, stupid messages from the server that > say, "We only support IE 6+, upgrade your browser...", so you tell it > you're using IE 6 and, well no problem. Yep. Which means that the figures will always be skewed toward IE a bit. But it's a lot less than you might think; most people don't leave UA switchers active all the time, and the number of web sites that require them is dropping. It's true that UA switching will tip toward IE (I've never seen a site where you have to pretend to be Google Chrome), but the epidemology is, I believe, not all that high. > Web site data is bogus. It assumes even distributions... it assumes even > usage of the site from all surfers, it assumes no web crawlers and no bots, > it assumes no browser identity tampering, and it assumes that there aren't > those who for economic reasons are not inflating the numbers deliberately > (no, really??) from world-owned bot farms. Even distributions of what? 1) Assuming nothing, it merely gives data. About one site. That's why overall "browser marketshare" stats have to be done by averaging multiple sites. 2) Web crawlers - see above. If you've ever looked at AWStats or Webalizer or *insert stats engine here*, you'll have seen that it will identify them. AWStats goes a bit further and will identify "viewed traffic" and "not viewed traffic" even if it's unable to identify the specific bot. 3) Yes, it assumes no UA switchers, obviously. It's just based on headers. But I reckon you could easily identify someone who's using a switcher, based on other headers - for instance, I doubt very much that IE6 will send "Accept-Encoding: gzip,deflate,sdch" (which my Chrome does). 4) Assumes people aren't deliberately fiddling the figures. Yeah, that would be correct. We're in the realm of conspiracy theories here... does anyone seriously think that browser stats are THAT important that they'd go to multiple web servers with deceitful hits? Not forgetting that they'd have to mix up the IPs, make plausible "browsing sessions" (with referers and image retrieval and so on), vary the date/times, etc, etc, etc, etc... and generate enough hits to make a reasonable dent in the figures. > There is no reliable way to measure free software usage. But, there sure > is a lot of posturing going on in the market place ... wonder why? Sure, and there's no reliable way to measure non-free software usage either. What's the difference? You could count sales of Microsoft Office, and you could count downloads of Open Office. Neither is any more accurate than the other; although I think the 24-hour figures for Firefox 4 / IE 9 downloads are fairly indicative, since people can't get them off their respective OS install CDs. And this isn't restricted to electronica either. Which is more popular, Coca-Cola or Pepsi? Do more people vote Liberal or Labour, Republican or Democrat, Whig or Tory? Statisticking is a huge science. Most of it involves figuring out what's important - anyone can get data, but getting useful information out of the data takes some work. Chris Angelico -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: about soaplib demo's time latency
On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 6:43 PM, Stephen.Wu <54wut...@gmail.com> wrote: > I just follow the instructions below - > http://soaplib.github.com/soaplib/2_0/pages/helloworld.html > to establish a soap server. After starting the server, everytime I run > the client script, I fetch the response nearly 20 seconds afterward. > Why this happen? > I just want the server send response asap then the client will show > the result to me immediately. > > please give some hints. thanks Not sure if it's what you're seeing, but you might have an issue with reverse DNS. When the client connects, the server tries to look up its PTR record for its log. You can speed this up by either having such a record, or having an authoritative DNS server that returns an immediate failure; either option is fairly easy if you run BIND, but you might be able to do it with your hosts file (/etc/hosts or c:\windows\system32\drivers\etc\hosts) instead - just put in an entry for your client computer and some hostname. Hope that helps! Chris Angelico -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: automated pep8 reformatter ?
James Mills writes: > Does anyone know of a tool that will help with > reformatting badly written code to be pep8 compliant ? > > a 2to3 for pep8 ? > What I daily and with great happiness use is flymake-mode in emacs. Combined with pylint, pep8 and pychecker I can see while I'm programming all the possible problems that are caught in my program with those tools. An automatic tool maybe is not such a good idea, most of those warnings have to be checked and analyzed before changing something. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Egos, heartlessness, and limitations
On 14 avr, 08:59, > Fortunately, if you're using a recent Linux or a Mac with MacPorts, > installing wxPython should never be more than one command line (or half a > dozen clicks) away. Windows users aren't quite so lucky, but still, it's > not like installing it is a major hassle. > Probably, the joke of the day :-) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
python ioctl
Hi PyPpl, For my current project I have a kernel device driver and a user-space application. This user-space application is already provided to me, and written in python. I have to extend this application with some addition features, which involves communicating with kernel device driver through ioctl() interface. I am fairly new with Python and not able to grok how to provide "op" in ioctl syntax - fcntl.ioctl (fd, op[, arg[, mutate_flag]]). Operations supported by device driver, through ioctl, are of the form: IOCTL_SET_MSG _IOR(MAGIC_NUMBER, 0, char*). It'd be great if some help can be provided about how to "encode" these operations in python to implement the desired functionality. Regards Nitish -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python ioctl
Nitish Sharma wrote:
> Hi PyPpl,
> For my current project I have a kernel device driver and a user-space
> application. This user-space application is already provided to me, and
> written in python. I have to extend this application with some addition
> features, which involves communicating with kernel device driver through
> ioctl() interface.
> I am fairly new with Python and not able to grok how to provide "op" in
> ioctl syntax - fcntl.ioctl (fd, op[, arg[, mutate_flag]]). Operations
> supported by device driver, through ioctl, are of the form: IOCTL_SET_MSG
> _IOR(MAGIC_NUMBER, 0, char*).
> It'd be great if some help can be provided about how to "encode" these
> operations in python to implement the desired functionality.
>
> Regards
> Nitish
Here's some of my stuff. Specific to my device, but maybe you get some ideas
eioctl.py
from ctypes import *
libc = CDLL ('/lib/libc.so.6')
#print libc.ioctl
def set_ioctl_argtype (arg_type):
libc.ioctl.argtypes = (c_int, c_int, arg_type)
IOC_WRITE = 0x1
_IOC_NRBITS=8
_IOC_TYPEBITS= 8
_IOC_SIZEBITS= 14
_IOC_DIRBITS= 2
_IOC_NRSHIFT= 0
_IOC_TYPESHIFT= (_IOC_NRSHIFT+_IOC_NRBITS)
_IOC_SIZESHIFT= (_IOC_TYPESHIFT+_IOC_TYPEBITS)
_IOC_DIRSHIFT= (_IOC_SIZESHIFT+_IOC_SIZEBITS)
def IOC (dir, type, nr, size):
return (((dir) << _IOC_DIRSHIFT) | \
((type) << _IOC_TYPESHIFT) | \
((nr) << _IOC_NRSHIFT) | \
((size) << _IOC_SIZESHIFT))
def ioctl (fd, request, args):
return libc.ioctl (fd, request, args)
--
example of usage:
# Enable byte swap in driver
from eioctl import IOC, IOC_WRITE
EOS_IOC_MAGIC = 0xF4
request = IOC(IOC_WRITE, EOS_IOC_MAGIC, 1, struct.calcsize ('i'))
err = fcntl.ioctl(eos_fd, request, 1)
--
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Re: about soaplib demo's time latency
On Apr 14, 5:18 pm, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 6:43 PM, Stephen.Wu <54wut...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I just follow the instructions below
> > -http://soaplib.github.com/soaplib/2_0/pages/helloworld.html
> > to establish a soap server. After starting the server, everytime I run
> > the client script, I fetch the response nearly 20 seconds afterward.
> > Why this happen?
> > I just want the server send response asap then the client will show
> > the result to me immediately.
>
> > please give some hints. thanks
>
> Not sure if it's what you're seeing, but you might have an issue with
> reverse DNS. When the client connects, the server tries to look up its
> PTR record for its log. You can speed this up by either having such a
> record, or having an authoritative DNS server that returns an
> immediate failure; either option is fairly easy if you run BIND, but
> you might be able to do it with your hosts file (/etc/hosts or
> c:\windows\system32\drivers\etc\hosts) instead - just put in an entry
> for your client computer and some hostname.
>
> Hope that helps!
>
> Chris Angelico
Thanks Chris.
I recheck the logic line by line and I find it is this sentence drag
speed down : hello_client = Client('http://localhost:7789/?wsdl').
To initialize a suds.client.Client instance need that long lasting 20
seconds?
On your suggestion, if I just want to run the server localhost, how
should I set up the local \etc\hosts file?
thanks
--
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Re: about soaplib demo's time latency
On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 11:30 PM, Stephen.Wu <54wut...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks Chris.
> I recheck the logic line by line and I find it is this sentence drag
> speed down : hello_client = Client('http://localhost:7789/?wsdl').
> To initialize a suds.client.Client instance need that long lasting 20
> seconds?
> On your suggestion, if I just want to run the server localhost, how
> should I set up the local \etc\hosts file?
It's probably already there for localhost; check the file I named and
see if there's a line looking like:
127.0.0.1 localhost
If there is, you should be able to get reverse DNS for 127.0.0.1. The
other possibility there is that it's the _forward_ DNS that's slow
(although I don't know why it would be). Try the IP instead:
hello_client = Client('http://127.0.0.1:7789/?wsdl')
Chris Angelico
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Egos, heartlessness, and limitations
On Wed, 2011-04-13 at 20:26 -0700, rantingrick wrote: > On Apr 13, 10:01 pm, Ryan Kelly wrote: > > On Wed, 2011-04-13 at 19:10 -0700, rantingrick wrote: > > > On Apr 13, 8:29 pm, Ryan Kelly wrote: > > > > On Wed, 2011-04-13 at 17:39 -0700, rantingrick wrote: > [...] > > > Funny you should bring that up. The folks on python-dev are currently > > making a substantial push to increase involvement in python core > > development through the "Python Mentors" program. > > > > Site here: > > [...] > > > So anyone following along this thread, if you're interested in making a > > genuine contribution to python as a language, this is a great time and > > place to start. > > That was a very helpful post Ian, thank you! > > However i have a sneaking suspicion that if i join this group i will > be denied as was the case with other python groups. However the > question remains. Why do we need yet another group? Why can we not use > the comp.lang.python that everyone knows already. Since this is a > group created for noobs, how do you expect them to find out about it? > I have been hanging around for over four years and i did not know > until now. Go figure. The first place people are going to go for > online help is > comp.lang.X for whatever language they are learning. > > And who pissed in Guido's punch bowl anyway? Why is he such an elitist > now? Why can he not come over once and a while and rub shoulders with > the little people? He does not have to hang out every day, just drop > in once a week or month at least. > > I guess i am just old fashioned but i though "benevolent" was a > *positive* moniker. We need to know what kind of leader we are dealing > with here. We deserve that much. And if he is really "benevolent" then > *I* will apologize to both him and the community at whole. Until then > i wait... > > > Nobody has to do anything. This is an open source project. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [OT] Free software versus software idea patents
On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 19:15:05 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: > 4) Assumes people aren't deliberately fiddling the figures. Yeah, that > would be correct. We're in the realm of conspiracy theories here... does > anyone seriously think that browser stats are THAT important that they'd > go to multiple web servers with deceitful hits? Back in the day, not that many years ago, when it looked like Internet Explorer would never dip below 90% market share and web developers coded for IE quirks instead of standards as a matter of course, I used to fantasize of writing a Windows virus that (apart from propagating) did nothing but change the user-agent string on IE. It would have been awesome to witness the consternation among web developers. But thanks to the EU doing what the US DOJ refused to do, and the grass- roots popularity of Firefox (plus a fewer well-known even if not often used browsers like Safari and Opera), and then Google's scarily efficient way they can capture hearts and minds on the Internet, IE's market share has been whittled away to the point that there are places in the world where IE is a minority browser. A large minority, it is true, but still a minority. Now, if only we could convince web users that having your browser execute untrusted code downloaded from the Internet is not such a good idea, supposed sandbox or not. What the world needs is a virus that silently removes Javascript and Flash from browsers... -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [OT] Free software versus software idea patents
On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 12:02 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > Now, if only we could convince web users that having your browser execute > untrusted code downloaded from the Internet is not such a good idea, > supposed sandbox or not. What the world needs is a virus that silently > removes Javascript and Flash from browsers... We don't need a virus. All we need is a few good blog posts and some viable alternatives. Flash may very well start dying as HTML5 takes over; it'll be relegated to in-browser games (some of which are very good, as it happens), and people will use it only if they play those games. Javascript/ECMAScript though is here to stay... I very much doubt anyone's going to abolish or replace it. Sure, executing code downloaded from the internet can be risky; but scripting is a lot less risky than downloading plugins, and there's a LOT of people who will just go "Oh, I need to download something to make this work? Okay. *click*" - now THAT is the real risk. They don't know (or care) whether they're getting Adobe Flash Player version 123, or Acrobat Reader 234, or Java Applet Engine By Bob's Dodgy Coders 345, and if that doesn't scare sysadmins, nothing will. Chris Angelico -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT] Free software versus software idea patents
HI Steven D'Aprano... > Now, if only we could convince web users that having your browser execute > untrusted code downloaded from the Internet is not such a good idea, supposed > sandbox or not. No need, we have an abundance of half wits - erm I mean, surfers - out there willing click on anything. > What the world needs is a virus that silently removes Javascript and Flash > from browsers... Hmmm, now wouldn't that be fun... >;) -- 73... Bazza, G0LCU... Team AMIGA... http://homepages.tesco.net/wisecracker/ http://main.aminet.net/search?readme=wisecracker http://mikeos.berlios.de/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Free software versus software idea patents
geremy condra wrote: On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 10:50 PM, harrismh777 wrote: >> My major professor once told me, "You know you've won the argument when they start calling you names!" I think your professor should have said "you know you've won the argument when you can prove it". If you can prove it, you know you're right. Unfortunately, being right doesn't mean you win the argument. :( ~Ethan~ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
memory usage multi value hash
Hello, i'm not very experienced in python. Is there a way doing below more memory efficient and maybe faster. I import a 2-column file and then concat for every unique value in the first column ( key) the value from the second columns. So The ouptut is something like that. A,1,2,3 B,3,4 C,9,10,11,12,90,34,322,21 Thanks for advance & regards, Christian import csv import random import sys from itertools import groupby from operator import itemgetter f=csv.reader(open(sys.argv[1]),delimiter=';') z=[[i[0],i[1]] for i in f] z.sort(key=itemgetter(0)) mydict = dict((k,','.join(map(itemgetter(1), it))) for k, it in groupby(z, itemgetter(0))) del(z) f = open(sys.argv[2], 'w') for k,v in mydict.iteritems(): f.write(v + "\n") f.close() -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Free software versus software idea patents
On Apr 14, 1:50 am, harrismh777 wrote: > Westley Martínez wrote: > I don't even know one person who has Win7 installed, running, and > likes it... > > >> not even one. > > >>> > > Hi, m harris, nice to meet you. Now you do. > > >>> > > To the online community: Is there a name for trolling for A by > >>> > > advocating for not-A in a way that discredits your point of view an > >>> > > case so that A now seems much more reasonable? It's not really > >>> > > "concern trolling". What would this be called? > > >> > Harrisment. > > >> > /I'm sorry, this is abuse... > > >> > Geremy Condra > > That was harristerical. > > Actually, it is funny... and I love humor as much as I love mathematics, > software, and freedom. Truly harristerical... :) > > But on a serious note, I did wonder who would be the first jouster to > offer the argumentum ad hominem? ... ah, sticks and stones... I don't think there has been any argumentum ad hominem used here. No one besmirched you. What was criticized was your approach, which seemed counter-productive, and so much so that it seemed like you are "really" advocating FOR software patents by discrediting the position against them. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [OT] Free software versus software idea patents
On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 12:04 AM, harrismh777 wrote: > How mamy times have you altered the identity of your web browser so that > the web site would 'work'? You know, stupid messages from the server that > say, "We only support IE 6+, upgrade your browser...", so you tell it > you're using IE 6 and, well no problem. I actually can't even recall the last time I had to deal with that problem, although occasionally I find myself forced to use IE because the site really, truly doesn't work in Firefox. It might work in some other browser, but I'm not going to spend the time trying every FOSS browser in existence just to avoid using IE. Anyway, I would hope that the statisticians who gather this data would be smart enough to discard any site that was reporting 100% usage of one particular browser. Note that user-agent masking is also a rather tech-savvy thing to do. I sincerely doubt that more than a couple percent of the population actually does this. The rest would either grumble about it and start up IE, or just leave the site without looking back. Cheers, Ian -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [OT] Free software versus software idea patents
On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 12:22 AM, harrismh777 wrote: > geremy condra wrote: >> >> Having said that, I have a greater respect for mathematics than I do >> for my own economic views, and I don't like seeing it become a >> political football. If you can prove something,*prove it*. If you >> cannot- no matter how close you might feel you are- don't claim that >> math says you're right. > > Fair enough. > > http://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.php?story=2009151305785 > > > With your background, you will have no problem with this text... > although, and I do apologize, it is a long text... scroll down and begin > reading at the heading: > > An Explanation of Computation Theory for Lawyers > > By PolR > > > > The write-up is excellent, written as well or better than I could write > it myself, and is very clear and concise... yes, even a lawyer can > understand it. This is not a proof. This is an argument. There's a very big difference. To be clear, this article makes basically the same mistake you do- you assume that a program is exactly equivalent to its computation, while the article makes the additional and even more wrong assumption that a program is perfectly defined by its CPU instructions. It's to your credit that you avoided advancing this obviously incorrect claim, but you still haven't addressed my earlier points. Geremy Condra -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: memory usage multi value hash
christian wrote:
> Hello,
>
> i'm not very experienced in python. Is there a way doing below more
> memory efficient and maybe faster.
> I import a 2-column file and then concat for every unique value in
> the first column ( key) the value from the second
> columns.
>
> So The ouptut is something like that.
> A,1,2,3
> B,3,4
> C,9,10,11,12,90,34,322,21
>
>
> Thanks for advance & regards,
> Christian
>
>
> import csv
> import random
> import sys
> from itertools import groupby
> from operator import itemgetter
>
> f=csv.reader(open(sys.argv[1]),delimiter=';')
> z=[[i[0],i[1]] for i in f]
> z.sort(key=itemgetter(0))
> mydict = dict((k,','.join(map(itemgetter(1), it)))
>for k, it in groupby(z, itemgetter(0)))
> del(z)
>
> f = open(sys.argv[2], 'w')
> for k,v in mydict.iteritems():
> f.write(v + "\n")
>
> f.close()
I don't expect that it matters much, but you don't need to sort your data if
you use a dictionary anyway:
import csv
import sys
infile, outfile = sys.argv[1:]
d = {}
with open(infile, "rb") as instream:
for key, value in csv.reader(instream, delimiter=';'):
d.setdefault(key, [key]).append(value)
with open(outfile, "wb") as outstream:
csv.writer(outstream).writerows(d.itervalues())
--
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Re: memory usage multi value hash
On 4/14/2011 12:55 PM, Peter Otten wrote:
I don't expect that it matters much, but you don't need to sort your data if
you use a dictionary anyway:
Which means that one can build the dict line by line, as each is read,
instead of reading the entire file into memory. So it does matter for
intermediate memory use.
import csv
import sys
infile, outfile = sys.argv[1:]
d = {}
with open(infile, "rb") as instream:
for key, value in csv.reader(instream, delimiter=';'):
d.setdefault(key, [key]).append(value)
with open(outfile, "wb") as outstream:
csv.writer(outstream).writerows(d.itervalues())
--
Terry Jan Reedy
--
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Re: Fun python 3.2 one-liner
In article , Daniel Fetchinson wrote: >>> what is the character limit on a one liner :P. >> >> For PEP 8 compliance, 80 characters. :-) > >Yeah, but we don't live in the 80's or 90's anymore and our screens >can support xterms (or let alone IDE widows) much wider than 80 >characters. I'm using 140 for python these days. Seriously, who would >want to limit him/herself to 80 characters in 2011? I want to limit myself to 72 char's for readability. 80 char's is over the top. > >Cheers, >Daniel > Groetjes Albert -- -- Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters. albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Egos, heartlessness, and limitations
Lemme see now... >i laid out grandiose plans for a new beginning only to have my words >fall on deaf ears. Have we become so self absorbed as to care only for >our status and ego and not for the community at whole? So you proposed a grandiose plane that is a heck of a lot of work for the people on this list who are trying to get their jobs done and are now complaining they aren't doing all that extra work for you? Really? You diagnosed this as being caused by > * Poor Documentation or lack thereof > * Knowledge Hoarding > * Selfishness > * Lack of alturistic tendancies [sic!] Again, not having people take a lot of time to personally tutor you is not Knowledge Hoarding. An awful lot of knowledge can't be communicated successfully to others in written format and requires a great deal of give and take, which is time consuming. That you can't just give them orders to work overtime at their own expense is not selfishness nor is it lack of altruism. You do, however, come across as a self-righteous totalitarian, who seems to think that having a good idea means it is incumbent on everyone else to implement since you are so special. No. Write a prototype that totally rocks, generate some enthusiasm and above all, make a tool that helps *other* people and they will flock to this. Said more plainly, the direction of your supposed altruism is 180 degrees off the mark. Don't know much about this topic, but boy is my BS detector going off... And just a tip on people skills, you will never get people to do voluntarily things for you (which is the real definition of power) by this sort of shtick. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Egos, heartlessness, and limitations
On 2011-04-14, rantingrick wrote: > [the usual bait] One has to congratulate RR on how many fish he catches. I guess we should just be glad that in this electronic ocean overfishing doesn't cause a population crash. -- Grant Edwards grant.b.edwardsYow! Everybody gets free at BORSCHT! gmail.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [OSX] side by side python
In article <0d6d1306-6395-4c29-a3c1-b2748bda4...@i39g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, Robert wrote: > Can I install Python 2.7 and 3.2 (from python.org) side by side on OSX > without them stepping all over each other? I have troubles with textwrangler, and I have the feeling it is related to the fact that I have two different versions of Python installed. I am on MacOSX 10.6.7. I have the "built-in" Python2.5 which comes installed by "mother Apple". Then I installed Python2.6, and left 2.5 untouched (I was suggested to leave it on the system, since "something might need it"). I ran the "Update Shell Profile.command", and now if I launch "python" in the terminal it happily launches the 2.6 version. Then I installed some libraries (scipy and matplotlib). They work, and everything is fine. Then, I started to use TexWrangler, and I wanted to use the "shebang" menu, and "run" command. I have the "#! first line" pointing to the 2.6 version. It works fine, as long as I don't import the libraries, in which case it casts an error saying: import scipy as sp ImportError: No module named scipy which makes me think that for some reason it points to the old 2.5 version. But I might be wrong and the problem is another... Any clue? Thanks Fabio -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [OT] Free software versus software idea patents
On Thu, 2011-04-14 at 14:02 +, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 19:15:05 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: > > > 4) Assumes people aren't deliberately fiddling the figures. Yeah, that > > would be correct. We're in the realm of conspiracy theories here... does > > anyone seriously think that browser stats are THAT important that they'd > > go to multiple web servers with deceitful hits? > > Back in the day, not that many years ago, when it looked like Internet > Explorer would never dip below 90% market share and web developers coded > for IE quirks instead of standards as a matter of course, I used to > fantasize of writing a Windows virus that (apart from propagating) did > nothing but change the user-agent string on IE. It would have been > awesome to witness the consternation among web developers. > > But thanks to the EU doing what the US DOJ refused to do, and the grass- > roots popularity of Firefox (plus a fewer well-known even if not often > used browsers like Safari and Opera), and then Google's scarily efficient > way they can capture hearts and minds on the Internet, IE's market share > has been whittled away to the point that there are places in the world > where IE is a minority browser. A large minority, it is true, but still a > minority. > > Now, if only we could convince web users that having your browser execute > untrusted code downloaded from the Internet is not such a good idea, > supposed sandbox or not. What the world needs is a virus that silently > removes Javascript and Flash from browsers... > > > > -- > Steven Web developers will always use the tool they find to be the most reliable, efficient, and useful, as will consumers. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [OT] Free software versus software idea patents
On Thu, 2011-04-14 at 14:02 +, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 19:15:05 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: > > > 4) Assumes people aren't deliberately fiddling the figures. Yeah, that > > would be correct. We're in the realm of conspiracy theories here... does > > anyone seriously think that browser stats are THAT important that they'd > > go to multiple web servers with deceitful hits? > > Back in the day, not that many years ago, when it looked like Internet > Explorer would never dip below 90% market share and web developers coded > for IE quirks instead of standards as a matter of course, I used to > fantasize of writing a Windows virus that (apart from propagating) did > nothing but change the user-agent string on IE. It would have been > awesome to witness the consternation among web developers. > > But thanks to the EU doing what the US DOJ refused to do, and the grass- > roots popularity of Firefox (plus a fewer well-known even if not often > used browsers like Safari and Opera), and then Google's scarily efficient > way they can capture hearts and minds on the Internet, IE's market share > has been whittled away to the point that there are places in the world > where IE is a minority browser. A large minority, it is true, but still a > minority. > > Now, if only we could convince web users that having your browser execute > untrusted code downloaded from the Internet is not such a good idea, > supposed sandbox or not. What the world needs is a virus that silently > removes Javascript and Flash from browsers... > > > > -- > Steven Also, why aren't Opera and Google criticized for their proprietary browsers (Chrome is essentially a proprietary front-end)? Is it because their browsers follow web standards, or is it because we have demonized Microsoft? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
[Mac OSX] TextWrangler "run" command not working properly
Hi to all, I have troubles with TextWrangler "run" command in the "shebang" (#!) menu. I am on MacOSX 10.6.7. I have the "built-in" Python2.5 which comes installed by "mother Apple". Then I installed Python2.6, and left 2.5 untouched (I was suggested to leave it on the system, since "something might need it"). I ran the "Update Shell Profile.command", and now if I launch "python" in the terminal it happily launches the 2.6 version. Then I installed some libraries (scipy and matplotlib) on this newer 2.6 version. They work, and everything is fine. Then, I started to use TexWrangler, and I wanted to use the "shebang" menu, and "run" command. I have the "#! first line" pointing to the 2.6 version. It works fine, as long as I don't import the libraries, in which case it casts an error saying: ImportError: No module named scipy Maybe for some reason it points to the old 2.5 version. But I might be wrong and the problem is another... I copy here the first lines in the terminal window if i give the "run in terminal" command Last login: Thu Apr 14 22:38:26 on ttys000 Fabio-Mac:~ fabio$ /var/folders/BS/BSS71XvjFKiJPH3Wqtx90k+++TM/-Tmp-/Cleanup\ At\ Startup/untitled\ text-324506443.860.command ; exit; Traceback (most recent call last): File "/Users/fabio/Desktop/test.py", line 3, in import scipy as sp ImportError: No module named scipy logout [Process completed] where the source (test.py) contains just: #!/usr/bin/python2.6 import scipy as sp print "hello world" Any clue? Thanks Fabio -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: TextWrangler "run" command not working properly
On Apr 14, 9:52 pm, Fabio wrote: > Hi to all, > I have troubles with TextWrangler "run" command in the "shebang" (#!) > menu. > I am on MacOSX 10.6.7. > I have the "built-in" Python2.5 which comes installed by "mother Apple". > Then I installed Python2.6, and left 2.5 untouched (I was suggested to > leave it on the system, since "something might need it"). > > I ran the "Update Shell Profile.command", and now if I launch "python" > in the terminal it happily launches the 2.6 version. > Then I installed some libraries (scipy and matplotlib) on this newer 2.6 > version. > They work, and everything is fine. > > Then, I started to use TexWrangler, and I wanted to use the "shebang" > menu, and "run" command. > I have the "#! first line" pointing to the 2.6 version. > It works fine, as long as I don't import the libraries, in which case it > casts an error saying: > > ImportError: No module named scipy > > Maybe for some reason it points to the old 2.5 version. > But I might be wrong and the problem is another... > > I copy here the first lines in the terminal window if i give the "run in > terminal" command > > Last login: Thu Apr 14 22:38:26 on ttys000 > Fabio-Mac:~ fabio$ > /var/folders/BS/BSS71XvjFKiJPH3Wqtx90k+++TM/-Tmp-/Cleanup\ At\ > Startup/untitled\ text-324506443.860.command ; exit; > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "/Users/fabio/Desktop/test.py", line 3, in > import scipy as sp > ImportError: No module named scipy > logout > > [Process completed] > > where the source (test.py) contains just: > > #!/usr/bin/python2.6 > > import scipy as sp > > print "hello world" > > Any clue? > > Thanks > > Fabio http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t570137-textwrangler-and-new-python-version-mac.html ? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [OT] Free software versus software idea patents
Westley Martínez wrote: Also, why aren't Opera and Google criticized for their proprietary browsers (Chrome is essentially a proprietary front-end)? Is it because their browsers follow web standards, or is it because we have demonized Microsoft? My biggest gripe with Microsoft as that they *don't* follow standards, which makes interoperability a nightmare. ~Ethan~ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: TextWrangler "run" command not working properly
I'm not a python expert, but you might trying running 'print sys.path' inside your script and run that from TextWrangler to see where it's looking for modules. - Ernest On Apr 14, 2011, at 5:01 PM, Jon Clements wrote: > On Apr 14, 9:52 pm, Fabio wrote: >> Hi to all, >> I have troubles with TextWrangler "run" command in the "shebang" (#!) >> menu. >> I am on MacOSX 10.6.7. >> I have the "built-in" Python2.5 which comes installed by "mother Apple". >> Then I installed Python2.6, and left 2.5 untouched (I was suggested to >> leave it on the system, since "something might need it"). >> >> I ran the "Update Shell Profile.command", and now if I launch "python" >> in the terminal it happily launches the 2.6 version. >> Then I installed some libraries (scipy and matplotlib) on this newer 2.6 >> version. >> They work, and everything is fine. >> >> Then, I started to use TexWrangler, and I wanted to use the "shebang" >> menu, and "run" command. >> I have the "#! first line" pointing to the 2.6 version. >> It works fine, as long as I don't import the libraries, in which case it >> casts an error saying: >> >> ImportError: No module named scipy >> >> Maybe for some reason it points to the old 2.5 version. >> But I might be wrong and the problem is another... >> >> I copy here the first lines in the terminal window if i give the "run in >> terminal" command >> >> Last login: Thu Apr 14 22:38:26 on ttys000 >> Fabio-Mac:~ fabio$ >> /var/folders/BS/BSS71XvjFKiJPH3Wqtx90k+++TM/-Tmp-/Cleanup\ At\ >> Startup/untitled\ text-324506443.860.command ; exit; >> Traceback (most recent call last): >> File "/Users/fabio/Desktop/test.py", line 3, in >> import scipy as sp >> ImportError: No module named scipy >> logout >> >> [Process completed] >> >> where the source (test.py) contains just: >> >> #!/usr/bin/python2.6 >> >> import scipy as sp >> >> print "hello world" >> >> Any clue? >> >> Thanks >> >> Fabio > > http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t570137-textwrangler-and-new-python-version-mac.html > ? > -- > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
PEP index by topic
Reading the PEPs is a great way to get a look at how Python has developed and at some of its subtle nuances. It's a great way to compare your great new idea to what the community has seriously considered before. Most of them have information that you won't find consolidated anywhere else. Quite a few are either open or languishing. The open ones you can have a hand in improving/accepting/rejecting by joining the discussions on python-ideas and python-dev. The dead and not-dead-yet ones you could learn from, and even try to resurrect. For instance, PEP 3150 is currently involved in a lengthy discussion on python-ideas and Nick is talking about revising it now that the moratorium is over. I've read a handful of the PEPs and found every one to be informative and helpful. One problem I have had is that there are so many to read. Finding ones applicable to your needs or interests isn't terribly easy. So in pursuit of an improvement I have started a PEP index on the Python wiki organized by topic. http://wiki.python.org/moin/Topically%20Organized%20PEP%20List I add a few topics already, but haven't indexed many of the standards track PEPs. I would love to see an index like this in PEP 1, but it may not be practical, as the topics in the index can grow pretty dynamically. Maybe a snapshot of the wiki content could be added to PEP 1? Or maybe just a link there to the wiki page? Regardless, I hope everyone finds a topical PEP index useful. -eric -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [OT] Free software versus software idea patents
On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 13:50:24 -0700, Westley Martínez wrote: > Also, why aren't Opera and Google criticized for their proprietary > browsers (Chrome is essentially a proprietary front-end)? Is it because > their browsers follow web standards, or is it because we have demonized > Microsoft? > Personally, I could care less whether a web browser is proprietary or not. What matters to me is whether its standards-compliant enough to interoperate successfully with standards-compliant browsers. If you're going to argue about web standards its better to criticise non-compliant servers since those will piss off a greater number of people. I think the only real evil is to set out to make a non-standards- compliant server and then design client software that seeks to lock in people to your server. FWIW I'm not certain that is anything that MS deliberately set out to do. Judging from stories over the years of lost code (the Win98 New Year problem) and the general slackness of their project management, its equally possible its simply the result of out of control, anarchic and undocumented software development. -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org | -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [OT] Free software versus software idea patents
On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 7:36 AM, Martin Gregorie wrote: > I think the only real evil is to set out to make a non-standards- > compliant server and then design client software that seeks to lock in > people to your server. FWIW I'm not certain that is anything that MS > deliberately set out to do. IE 6. Why is it still around? Because MS deliberately set out to encourage companies to use its features (mainly in intranet applications). ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [OT] Free software versus software idea patents
On Fri, 15 Apr 2011 08:01:42 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 7:36 AM, Martin Gregorie > wrote: >> I think the only real evil is to set out to make a non-standards- >> compliant server and then design client software that seeks to lock in >> people to your server. FWIW I'm not certain that is anything that MS >> deliberately set out to do. > > IE 6. Why is it still around? Because MS deliberately set out to > encourage companies to use its features (mainly in intranet > applications). > Fair point, though I should point out that IIRC its contemporary rivals were often as bad when it came to standards compliance. I don't remember many standards-compliant browsers before the first release of Opera. Never ascribe to malice things that can equally be achieved by incompetence. -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org | -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [OT] Free software versus software idea patents
On Fri, 2011-04-15 at 08:01 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 7:36 AM, Martin Gregorie > wrote: > > I think the only real evil is to set out to make a non-standards- > > compliant server and then design client software that seeks to lock in > > people to your server. FWIW I'm not certain that is anything that MS > > deliberately set out to do. > > IE 6. Why is it still around? Because MS deliberately set out to > encourage companies to use its features (mainly in intranet > applications). > > ChrisA I always thought it was because sys admins don't bother to upgrade. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [OT] Free software versus software idea patents
On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 15:23:01 -0700, Westley Martínez wrote: > On Fri, 2011-04-15 at 08:01 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: >> On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 7:36 AM, Martin Gregorie >> wrote: >> > I think the only real evil is to set out to make a non-standards- >> > compliant server and then design client software that seeks to lock >> > in people to your server. FWIW I'm not certain that is anything that >> > MS deliberately set out to do. >> >> IE 6. Why is it still around? Because MS deliberately set out to >> encourage companies to use its features (mainly in intranet >> applications). >> >> ChrisA > > I always thought it was because sys admins don't bother to upgrade. > Its both: a lot of company intranets that rely on IE6 quirks and have never been upgraded and, evidently, there are still office PCs in use that are old enough to have been bought with it installed and never upgraded. -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org | -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
python-farsight
> I'v mad a text chat sytem in python using xmpp. >can anyone help me to implement video chat in it, heard python-farsight is >used for audio/video conferencing. Can anyone help me how to use it in my >code, I'm a python beginer so can't imlement much in python. I found this >python-farsight from Gajim src >code(http://www.gajim.org/downloads.php?lang=en).Can you people describe which >all functions are to be used for starting video chat. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: about soaplib demo's time latency
On Apr 14, 9:39 pm, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 11:30 PM, Stephen.Wu <54wut...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Thanks Chris.
> > I recheck the logic line by line and I find it is this sentence drag
> > speed down : hello_client = Client('http://localhost:7789/?wsdl').
> > To initialize a suds.client.Client instance need that long lasting 20
> > seconds?
> > On your suggestion, if I just want to run the server localhost, how
> > should I set up the local \etc\hosts file?
>
> It's probably already there for localhost; check the file I named and
> see if there's a line looking like:
>
> 127.0.0.1 localhost
>
> If there is, you should be able to get reverse DNS for 127.0.0.1. The
> other possibility there is that it's the _forward_ DNS that's slow
> (although I don't know why it would be). Try the IP instead:
>
> hello_client = Client('http://127.0.0.1:7789/?wsdl')
>
> Chris Angelico
It works. Seems the DNS server will exchange localhost and 127.0.0.1,
taking nearly 15 seconds. Anyway, I got to know the exactly reason let
the initialized procedures down, which is the most important thing.
Thanks again.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [OT] Free software versus software idea patents
On Fri, 15 Apr 2011 08:01:42 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 7:36 AM, Martin Gregorie > wrote: >> I think the only real evil is to set out to make a non-standards- >> compliant server and then design client software that seeks to lock in >> people to your server. FWIW I'm not certain that is anything that MS >> deliberately set out to do. > > IE 6. Why is it still around? Because MS deliberately set out to > encourage companies to use its features (mainly in intranet > applications). IE 6 is still around due to inertia: partly users who haven't upgraded, but *mostly* developers who *think* users haven't upgraded, and that IE 6 is still the standard to code for. I mean, it's 2011 and I recently came across a site that claimed to only support IE and Netscape. Netscape!!! But if I recall correctly, the proportion of IE users still using IE 6 is about 10%, which makes it about 5% of the total browser share. Between Google (YouTube, Gmail, etc) and Microsoft dropping support for IE 6, I would expect that percentage to rapidly fall. -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python-farsight
On Fri, 15 Apr 2011 06:25:34 +0530, लेवीस quoted: >> I'v mad a text chat sytem in python using xmpp. >>can anyone help me to implement video chat in it, heard python-farsight >>is used for audio/video conferencing. Can anyone help me how to use >>it in my code, I'm a python beginer so can't imlement much in python. I >>found this python-farsight from Gajim src >>code(http://www.gajim.org/downloads.php?lang=en).Can you people describe >>which all functions are to be used for starting video chat. Who are you quoting? Did you have a comment to add or a question to ask? -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: about soaplib demo's time latency
On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 11:14 AM, Stephen.Wu <54wut...@gmail.com> wrote: > It works. Seems the DNS server will exchange localhost and 127.0.0.1, > taking nearly 15 seconds. Anyway, I got to know the exactly reason let > the initialized procedures down, which is the most important thing. Generally BIND, on install, is configured to be authoritative for the .localhost domain (little-known trivia fact: localhost isn't a machine name, it's a top-level domain - on par with .com or .uk), which should mean you get fast responses. May want to check your DNS server's config. I don't know if other DNS software comes nicely preconfigured like that, but it should, since nobody ever assigns localhost to be anything else (imagine the confusion THAT would cause - even if you set it to something relatively innocuous like 127.0.0.2). Chris Angelico -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Pythonic infinite for loop?
Apologies for interrupting the vital off-topic discussion, but I have a real Python question to ask. I'm doing something that needs to scan a dictionary for elements that have a particular beginning and a numeric tail, and turn them into a single list with some processing. I have a function parse_kwdlist() which takes a string (the dictionary's value) and returns the content I want out of it, so I'm wondering what the most efficient and Pythonic way to do this is. My first draft looks something like this. The input dictionary is called dct, the output list is lst. lst=[] for i in xrange(1,1000): # arbitrary top, don't like this try: lst.append(parse_kwdlist(dct["Keyword%d"%i])) except KeyError: break I'm wondering two things. One, is there a way to make an xrange object and leave the top off? (Sounds like I'm risking the numbers evaporating or something.) And two, can the entire thing be turned into a list comprehension or something? Generally any construct with a for loop that appends to a list is begging to become a list comp, but I can't see how to do that when the input comes from a dictionary. In the words of Adam Savage: "Am I about to feel really, really stupid?" Thanks in advance for help... even if it is just "hey you idiot, you forgot about X"! Chris Angelico -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [OT] Free software versus software idea patents
On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 13:50:24 -0700, Westley Martínez wrote: > Also, why aren't Opera and Google criticized for their proprietary > browsers (Chrome is essentially a proprietary front-end)? Is it because > their browsers follow web standards, or is it because we have demonized > Microsoft? A little of both. Personally, I think it is *good* that there is a plurality of browsers in the market. In my perfect world, no single browser should capture more than 20% share of users. -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [OT] Free software versus software idea patents
On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 13:46:46 -0700, Westley Martínez wrote: >> Now, if only we could convince web users that having your browser >> execute untrusted code downloaded from the Internet is not such a good >> idea, supposed sandbox or not. What the world needs is a virus that >> silently removes Javascript and Flash from browsers... > > Web developers will always use the tool they find to be the most > reliable, efficient, and useful, as will consumers. That doesn't explain Javascript or Flash. Both are popular *despite* being unreliable and inefficient. The Flash plugin is widely regarded as a steaming heap of unreliable crap even on Windows. Its reputation on Linux is even worse. What they give is ubiquity, which is a point in their favour. But just because something is common doesn't make it useful: for the most part both are used for style over substance, of sizzle without sausage, rather than anything actually useful or desirable: think of a misfeature that *degrades* the user-experience, and chances are it's implemented in Flash or Javascript on tens of thousands of sites. Yes-I-am-a-bitter-old-curmudgeon-ly y'rs, -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Egos, heartlessness, and limitations
On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 12:15:59 -0500, Jeffrey Gaynor wrote: [...] > Don't know much about this topic, but boy is my BS detector going off... Just search the archives for "rantingrick". He's been around a few years now, and my estimate is that 99% of his posts are haranguing others for refusing to agree with him, declaring that the silent majority of users agree completely with him, that people are going to run away from Python to Ruby or some other language unless we *immediately* drop everything and work on fixing whatever deficiency Rick cares about this week, and making accusations that GvR and the other Python developers are so caught up in some bizarre power trip that they are deliberately sabotaging Python's future. I have seen him actually make a constructive, helpful post. Once. By memory he helped a n00b with a Tkinter problem. But for every short, helpful post he writes, he writes about 80 or 100 long, useless posts that turn this list into a tar-pit of wasted time and frustration and halves its usefulness. Save yourself a lot of time and just killfile him now. You'll thank me for it later. -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [OT] Free software versus software idea patents
On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 12:09 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > Personally, I think it is *good* that there is a plurality of browsers in > the market. In my perfect world, no single browser should capture more > than 20% share of users. In *MY* perfect world, choice of browser should be completely up to the user, and web developers should not have to care. You code to the standard, safe in the knowledge that all your users are going to have standards-compliant browsers, and you don't care whether some of them are on Chrome, some on Firefox, some on IE, some on Opera, and some on TwoCansPieceString. And users know that they can choose whatever browser gives them the features they want, without having to worry about whether other sites will fail. We're getting close to that, but we're not yet there. > That doesn't explain Javascript or Flash. Both are popular *despite* > being unreliable and inefficient. The Flash plugin is widely regarded as > a steaming heap of unreliable crap even on Windows. Its reputation on > Linux is even worse. I've tried my hand at writing Flash code. If its next version requires that developers stab themselves with rusty forks and code using their own blood, I think it'd be an improvement over the current one. And from the other end... leaving Flash sites up in my browser is one of the best ways to destroy my battery life. It sucks... power. Chris Angelico -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Pythonic infinite for loop?
On Fri, 2011-04-15 at 12:10 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
> Apologies for interrupting the vital off-topic discussion, but I have
> a real Python question to ask.
>
> I'm doing something that needs to scan a dictionary for elements that
> have a particular beginning and a numeric tail, and turn them into a
> single list with some processing. I have a function parse_kwdlist()
> which takes a string (the dictionary's value) and returns the content
> I want out of it, so I'm wondering what the most efficient and
> Pythonic way to do this is.
>
> My first draft looks something like this. The input dictionary is
> called dct, the output list is lst.
>
> lst=[]
> for i in xrange(1,1000): # arbitrary top, don't like this
> try:
> lst.append(parse_kwdlist(dct["Keyword%d"%i]))
> except KeyError:
> break
>
> I'm wondering two things. One, is there a way to make an xrange object
> and leave the top off? (Sounds like I'm risking the numbers
> evaporating or something.)
There is, use an infinite generator:
def ints_from(start):
while True:
yield start
start += 1
for i in ints_from(1):
..etc...
But why not just put the while loop inline:
i = 0
while True:
try:
...etc...
except KeyError:
break
i += 1
It might be even easier to just iterate through the dictionary keys:
for k in sorted(dct.keys()):
if k.startswith("Keyword"):
lst.append(parse_kwdlist(dct[k]))
> And two, can the entire thing be turned
> into a list comprehension or something? Generally any construct with a
> for loop that appends to a list is begging to become a list comp, but
> I can't see how to do that when the input comes from a dictionary.
You probably could, but I think it would hurt readability in this case:
lst = [parse_kwdlist(dct[k]) for k in sorted(dct.keys())
if k.startswith("Keyword")]
Cheers,
Ryan
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Re: Pythonic infinite for loop?
On Fri, 15 Apr 2011 12:10:52 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: > One, is there a way to make an xrange object and leave the top off? itertools.count() > And two, can the entire thing be turned into a list comprehension or > something? Generally any construct with a for loop that appends to a > list is begging to become a list comp, but I can't see how to do that > when the input comes from a dictionary. The source of a list comprehension can be any iterable; it doesn't have to be a list. So: lst = [parse_kwdlist(dct[key]) for key in dct] or: lst = [parse_kwdlist(val) for val in dct.itervalues()] -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Pythonic infinite for loop?
On Fri, 15 Apr 2011 12:10:52 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: > Apologies for interrupting the vital off-topic discussion, but I have a > real Python question to ask. Sorry, you'll in the wrong forum for that. *wink* [...] > My first draft looks something like this. The input dictionary is called > dct, the output list is lst. > > lst=[] > for i in xrange(1,1000): # arbitrary top, don't like this > try: > lst.append(parse_kwdlist(dct["Keyword%d"%i])) > except KeyError: > break > > I'm wondering two things. One, is there a way to make an xrange object > and leave the top off? No. But you can use an itertools.count([start=0]) object, and then catch the KeyError when you pass the end of the dict. But assuming keys are consecutive, better to do this: lst = [parse_kwdlist(dct["Keyword%d"%i]) for i in xrange(1, len(dct)+1)] If you don't care about the order of the results: lst = [parse_kwdlist(value) for value in dct.values()] -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Pythonic infinite for loop?
If I understand your question correctly, what you want is probably something like: i = 0 lst=[] while True: try: lst.append(parse_kwdlist(dct["Keyword%d"%i])) i += 1 except KeyError: break --jac On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 9:10 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: > Apologies for interrupting the vital off-topic discussion, but I have > a real Python question to ask. > > I'm doing something that needs to scan a dictionary for elements that > have a particular beginning and a numeric tail, and turn them into a > single list with some processing. I have a function parse_kwdlist() > which takes a string (the dictionary's value) and returns the content > I want out of it, so I'm wondering what the most efficient and > Pythonic way to do this is. > > My first draft looks something like this. The input dictionary is > called dct, the output list is lst. > > lst=[] > for i in xrange(1,1000): # arbitrary top, don't like this > try: > lst.append(parse_kwdlist(dct["Keyword%d"%i])) > except KeyError: > break > > I'm wondering two things. One, is there a way to make an xrange object > and leave the top off? (Sounds like I'm risking the numbers > evaporating or something.) And two, can the entire thing be turned > into a list comprehension or something? Generally any construct with a > for loop that appends to a list is begging to become a list comp, but > I can't see how to do that when the input comes from a dictionary. > > In the words of Adam Savage: "Am I about to feel really, really stupid?" > > Thanks in advance for help... even if it is just "hey you idiot, you > forgot about X"! > > Chris Angelico > -- > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [OT] Free software versus software idea patents
In article <4da7a8f5$0$29986$c3e8da3$54964...@news.astraweb.com>, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 13:50:24 -0700, Westley MartÃnez wrote: > > > Also, why aren't Opera and Google criticized for their proprietary > > browsers (Chrome is essentially a proprietary front-end)? Is it because > > their browsers follow web standards, or is it because we have demonized > > Microsoft? > > A little of both. > > Personally, I think it is *good* that there is a plurality of browsers in > the market. In my perfect world, no single browser should capture more > than 20% share of users. I was just thinking about this the other day. The browser space is currently a perfect example of why competition is good. Just a few years ago, IE dominated the market to the point where people developing web applications could completely ignore all other browsers. Now, while IE may still be the most popular, they've dropped under 50% share, and falling, while Firefox and Chrome are still gaining. It won't be long before the three pretty much reach parity. And, yeah, Opera and Safari will continue to survive down in the single digits. The upshot of this is that people writing web apps these days are much more likely to be going for standards compliance then for "Works with IE". This is to everybody's benefit. The app developers can concentrate on building their apps, without wasting time fighting the browser wars. The browser makers are free to innovate in all sorts of ways while having a fixed HTML target to shoot for in their rendering engines. Since everybody is working on the same HTML (yeah, OK, big handwave there), new browser projects have a reduced barrier to entry. I can take a flyer and install some new browser to try it out, with a reasonable expectation that it'll render the pages I go to in a reasonable fashion. It's been a long time since I've run across a page that I just couldn't read in my favorite browser d'jour (modulo any internal apps from Big Company IT Department that depend on Active-X). Even if these projects fail, they sometimes have good idea which get incorporated by the Firefoxes and Chromes of the world. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Pythonic infinite for loop?
On Fri, 2011-04-15 at 12:34 +1000, Ryan Kelly wrote:
> On Fri, 2011-04-15 at 12:10 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
> >
> >
> > My first draft looks something like this. The input dictionary is
> > called dct, the output list is lst.
> >
> > lst=[]
> > for i in xrange(1,1000): # arbitrary top, don't like this
> > try:
> > lst.append(parse_kwdlist(dct["Keyword%d"%i]))
> > except KeyError:
> > break
> >
> It might be even easier to just iterate through the dictionary keys:
>
> for k in sorted(dct.keys()):
> if k.startswith("Keyword"):
> lst.append(parse_kwdlist(dct[k]))
Actually sorted() won't work here, since it sorts lexicographically. So
you'd wind up with "Keyword111" before "Keyword2". You would have to
sort after extracting the necessary info (assuming order is actually
important in the final list)
Ryan
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Re: [OT] Free software versus software idea patents
In article <4da7abad$0$29986$c3e8da3$54964...@news.astraweb.com>, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > What they give is ubiquity, which is a point in their favour. But just > because something is common doesn't make it useful: for the most part > both are used for style over substance, of sizzle without sausage, rather > than anything actually useful or desirable: think of a misfeature that > *degrades* the user-experience, and chances are it's implemented in Flash > or Javascript on tens of thousands of sites. There's certainly a lot to hate about JS (and even more so, flash), but they fill a niche. They provide a way to have better user interaction than you could with just forms and a submit button. That's not to say there's not lot of sucky shit build with them. But, if they didn't exist, something else would have to take their place. I don't see JS going away any time soon. Flash, on the other hand, is an unadulterated pile of dung. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Pythonic infinite for loop?
Thanks for the responses, all! In its strictest sense, itertools.count() seems to be what I'm after, but may not be what I need. On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 12:33 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > No. But you can use an itertools.count([start=0]) object, and then catch > the KeyError when you pass the end of the dict. But assuming keys are > consecutive, better to do this: > > lst = [parse_kwdlist(dct["Keyword%d"%i]) for i in xrange(1, len(dct)+1)] Ah, didn't think to use len(dct) as the top! And yes, the keys will be consecutive (or rather, if someone omits Keyword5 then I can justifiably ignore Keyword6). > If you don't care about the order of the results: > > lst = [parse_kwdlist(value) for value in dct.values()] No, order will matter (I have to pick up the first N that fit certain conditions, after parsing). The dictionary is potentially a lot larger than this particular set of values (it's a mapping of header:value for a row of a user-provided CSV file). Does this make a difference to the best option? (Currently I'm looking at "likely" figures of 60+ keys in the dictionary and 3-8 postage options to pick up, but both of those could increase significantly before production.) Efficiency is important, though not king; this whole code will be inside a loop. But readability is important too. I can't just give all of dct.values() to parse_kwdlist; the function parses a particular format of text string, and it's entirely possible that other values would match that format (some of them are pure free-form text). This has to get only the ones starting with Keyword, and in order. Steven, the line you suggested: lst = [parse_kwdlist(dct["Keyword%d"%i]) for i in xrange(1, len(dct)+1)] will bomb with KeyError when it hits the first one that isn't present, I assume. Is there an easy way to say "and when you reach any exception, not just StopIteration, return the list"? (I could wrap the whole "lst = " in a try/except, but then it won't set lst at all.) If not, I think I'll go with: for i in xrange(1,len(dct)+1): and otherwise as per OP. Having a check for "if key%d in dct" going all the way up seems like an odd waste of effort (or maybe I'm wrong there). Chris Angelico -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Egos, heartlessness, and limitations
Steven D'Aprano writes: > Save yourself a lot of time and just killfile him now. You'll thank me > for it later. You never thanked *me* for it, after you eventually realised that was the right decision :-) -- \ “Time's fun when you're having flies.” —Kermit the Frog | `\ | _o__) | Ben Finney -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
pdb and jump - newbie question
I have been trying to figure out how to use pdb to correct simple errors in a file and then continue with program execution. Perhaps someone can tell me why this is not working for me. Here is my file test.py: #-- import pdb pdb.set_trace() print """ this is a test file """ x = 0 y = 4.2 z = y/x print z print "with a bug" #-- The line `z = y/x` fails because x is zero. If I run this, I can step until that exception occurs, at which point I see ZeroDivisionError: 'float division' > c:\temp\test.py(9)() -> z = y/x (Pdb) Now, I thought I would be able to set x to another value and then jump back to re-run the line with the division statement. However, that does not seem to work. Here's what happens: (Pdb) !x = 2 (Pdb) j 9 > c:\temp\test.py(9)() -> z = y/x (Pdb) n --Return-- > c:\temp\test.py(9)()->None -> z = y/x (Pdb) n Traceback (most recent call last): File "C:\temp\test.py", line 9, in z = y/x ZeroDivisionError: float division I have also tried assigning a value to z and jumping past the illegal division, but I can't get that to work either. It seems that there must be a way to do this, but I can't find it. Any help would be appreciated. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
