Re: The Modernization of Emacs: terminology buffer and keybinding

[David Kastrup]

Twisted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Jun 23, 8:35 pm, Robert Uhl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Twisted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>
>> > For an example of the latter, consider opening a file. Can't remember
>> > the exact spelling and capitalization of the file name? Sorry, bud,
>> > you're SOL. Go find it in some other app and memorize the name, then
>> > return to emacs.
>>
>> Once again I am forced to wonder if you have _ever_ actually used
>> emacs.  find-file has tab completion: hit tab without anything typed, and
>> it displays _everything_ in the directory; type a few characters to
>> narrow it down; hit tab to complete the filename and be done with it.
>>
>> Or of course you could use directory mode, which enables you to navigate
>> around a directory tree, performing actions on files (including editing
>> them).
>>
>> Then of course there's ido.el, which is even better: type a few
>> characters from anywhere in the name, and it displays files matching
>> those characters.
>
> Really? None of this happens if you just do the straightforward file-
> open command, which should obviously at least provide a navigable
> directory tree, but definitely does not.

It definitely _does_ when you are using the mouse to open your file
dialog.  Again, _try_ a current version of Emacs before showing your
ignorance.

[Other nonsensical speculation deleted]

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RE: visual gui ides for python/jythpn

[Ethan Kennerly]

Luis M. Gonzalez wrote:
> PythonCard is an extremely easy to use alternative.
> It's like a simplified Visual Basic or Delphi IDE.
> Check IT out: www.pythoncard.org

I second that!  PythonCard is a rapid way to prototype an ugly Windows GUI.
(It's not PythonCard's fault that Windows are ugly. ;)  )  I use it for
prototyping.

But ONLY for prototyping.  At least with my version in Windows, it's got
bugs in the resource editor.  For example, Korean characters in Korean fonts
are rotated sideways.  And the color of a font can't be changed; only the
foreground color can, which corrupts button display.  The send to back/front
options don't seem to work.  Transparent images (like PNG) don't seem to
work ... for me, anway.

Yet, still, when I'm rapidly developing the mechanics of a game and need a
GUI front-end, PythonCard was a quick solution.  It brilliantly stores the
GUI as a recursive dictionary, which is like XML, only easy for a human to
read.  The widgets require very little of your coding.  It's got a lot of
samples, which makes some of its peculiar conventions easy to apply.  And
any Python app made with the PythonCard framework has a namespace viewer,
shell, and GUI message integrated into the application.

Flash and Python:  The ultimate GUI prototyping combo?

In my dreams, I would use Flash for the GUI portion of a Python app.  Flash
is by far my favorite environment for rapidly designing interfaces.  It is
an (almost) object-oriented drawing environment that can quickly produce
good visual design.  Because the elements are instances of prototypes (Flash
calls them symbols), they can be easily replaced and updated at any time.
The timeline, animation, color, layer, and drawing tools are wonderful.  You
can quickly make traditional or experimental interfaces.  The only thing
that sucked (for me), was ActionScript.  It's not bad.  It's quite good for
interface scripting.  But for back-end procedures it is prison compared to
Python.

Does anyone successfully use a Flash front-end and Python back-end in
real-time?  I've tried an example of XMLRPC servers where a Flash app (SWF)
communicates with Python (http://www.cs.unc.edu/~parente/tech/tr01.shtml),
but that has a round-trip time that is too slow for something like a
videogame (updates at 30 frames per second).  Some of the projects at OS
flash look promising (http://osflash.org/ext_howto), but I haven't found the
part that says that my interface made in Macromedia Flash (which is a
fantastic design environment) can be used with my code in Python with a
real-time frame rate.

-- Ethan


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Re: Adding method to a class on the fly

[John Henry]

On Jun 23, 6:24 pm, Steven D'Aprano
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 12:31:39 -0700, John Henry wrote:
> > it works fine but PythonCard isn't calling this function when I
> > clicked on the button.
>
> I think you need to take this question onto a PythonCard list. I have no
> idea how PythonCard decides which method to call.
>
> --
> Steven.


I did.  I am not sure I'll get an answer though.

Thanks for the help.

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Re: The Modernization of Emacs: terminology buffer and keybinding

[Timofei Shatrov]

On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 04:57:20 -, Twisted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> tried to
confuse everyone with this message:

>On Jun 23, 2:04 am, Robert Uhl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Of course, emacs doesn't take years of mastery.  It takes 30, 40
>> minutes.
>
>I gave it twice that, and it failed to grow on me in that amount of
>time.
>
>> > Besides, ANY interface that involves fumbling around in the dark
>> > trying to find a light switch is clunky.
>>
>> That sounds like vi, not emacs.
>
>That sounds like any application where you need to read the help, but
>"f1" does not bring up a separate help window, switchable with the
>main one using alt-tab or the mouse, and navigable using arrows,
>pageup, pagedn, and the mouse. The result of that is invariably that
>when the document has the focus, the help is open to "help on
>switching windows" rather than whatever you need it to be on once the
>document has the focus. You can read the help on doing what you want
>to do with the document, but to apply it you need to transfer focus
>back to the document. If doing that isn't second-nature, you have to
>navigate the help away from where you need it to get the focus back to
>the document. Now the focus is on the document, but the help you need
>isn't displayed next to it anymore. Frustrating? You can't begin to
>imagine, I suspect. Apparently, some people are born somehow able to
>avoid this problem without having to memorize one or the other piece
>of help. You're clearly one of those. I am equally clearly NOT one of
>those. Of course, if emacs let you keep THREE windows open and visible
>at the same time, instead of being limited to one or a horizontally
>split two ... and a cramped 80x10 or so each, at that ...

What an idiot. At least get yourt facts straight before posting such bullshit.

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Re: is this a valid import sequence ?

[Kay Schluehr]

On Jun 24, 2:51 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Alex Martelli) wrote:
> Since that global statement is utterly useless
> (it's impossible to read and understand any substantial amount of Python
> code without realizing that accessing a variable not locally assigned
> means you're accessing a global, so the "self-documenting" character
> claimed for that redundancy is quite fallacious), it IS perfectly
> suitable to take away, and so it's at least a serious imperfection.

Allow me a pun: self is pretty self-documenting.

With Python 3.0 we finally get even two declarations for accessing a
name for assignment from an outer scope. Maybe the Python Zen should
be altered in the following way:

- Namespaces are one honking great idea -- let's do more of those!
+ Accessor declaratives are one honking great idea -- let's do more of
those!

Kay

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Re: Portable general timestamp format, not 2038-limited

[Roedy Green]

On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 13:33:04 -0700, James Harris
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
someone who said :

>1) subsecond resolution - milliseconds or, preferably, more detailed
>2) not bounded by Unix timestamp 2038 limit
>3) readable in Java
>4) writable portably in Perl which seems to mean that 64-bit values
>are out
>5) readable and writable in Python
>6) storable in a free database - Postgresql/MySQL

Unix gets in trouble in 2038 only with 32-bit timestamps. Java's
64-bit longs are fine.

If you need code to create timestamps, you can modify parts of BigDate
to run in Perl or Python. 
see http://mindprod.com/products1.html#BIGDATE

To get more detailed, just use a unix long timestamp multiplied by
1000 to track in microseconds.

You can use MS nanosecond timestamps. see
http://mindprod.com/products1.html#FILETIMES

just store them as longs in the database.  The only catch is ad-hoc
queries won't work with them. 

JDBC out the box should be fine.  
one of :
DATEjava.sql.Date
TIMEjava.sql.Time
TIMESTAMP   java.sql.Timestamp
BIGINT  long
 
will be what you need.

--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
The Java Glossary
http://mindprod.com
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Re: The Modernization of Emacs: terminology buffer and keybinding

[David Golden]

Timofei Shatrov wrote:
> What an idiot. At least get yourt facts straight before posting such
> bullshit.

I think at this stage it's quite reasonable to assume he's trolling, and
recycling old trolls, too. Certainly looks like someone very like him
used to haunt rec.games.roguelike.development as "Neo" and "Twisted
One", in the 2005 era. Of course, by bothering to point this out, I'm
giving him more attention, the recognition he presumably craves, my
bad. 

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.development/msg/6f0fac979ef1d117
"""

Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 19:00:06 -0500
From: Twisted One <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Emacs doesn't let you do that either. It lets you have exactly two
panes.

"""


http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.development/msg/cfd723fbdc4a93f8
"""

From: David Damerell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 23 Mar 2005 13:22:00 + (GMT)
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Quoting  Twisted One  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Emacs doesn't let you do that either. It lets you have exactly two 
>panes.

No, this is completely false.

"""


... So, probably deliberately trolling, or just maybe a learning
difficulty - literally (corrected on multiple occasions, still 
failed to learn).










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Re: Collections of non-arbitrary objects ?

[Bjoern Schliessmann]

7stud wrote:
> On Jun 23, 11:45 am, walterbyrd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> Suppose you are sequentially processing a list with a routine
>> that expects every item to be of a certain type. Something in the
>> list that doesn't conform to the type could give you unexpected
>> results, maybe crash your application.
>>
> 
> if hasattr(elmt, some_func):
>elmt.some_func()

Personally, I prefer

try:
elmt.some_func()
except AttributeError:
# do stuff

Regards,


Björn

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new management

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Re: is this a valid import sequence ?

[Steven D'Aprano]

On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 21:11:42 -0700, Alex Martelli wrote a lot, with lots
of YELLING.

Wow. 

What can I say?

Given the amount of SHOUTING in your post, and the fact that you feel so
strongly about the trivial question of the redundant use of the global
statement that you would "fail a student" who did it -- even if they did
everything else correctly, efficiently and elegantly -- it seems to me
that you are beyond rational discussion on this subject. 

Perhaps you should consider writing a PEP to make the redundant use of the
global statement a compile-time error? Then there would be absolutely
no doubt in anyone's mind that it is _wrong_ (and not just unnecessary or
redundant) to use the global statement in the circumstances discussed. 

Then we can move on to removing floats of the form 1.e0, unary-plus on
numeric types, and string-slices like s[:].

I'm not sure where you got the idea that I'm "encouraging newbies to
overuse globals", when I wrote in an earlier post to this same thread: 

"However, using global variables is almost always a bad idea. Passing
parameters around is really cheap in Python, that's almost always a better
solution."

If you manage to calm down enough to answer without exaggerating and
misrepresenting my views, I would like to hear your opinion of whether the
following two functions are equally as wrong:

def f1(gizmo):
global spam # holds the frommet needed for the gizmo
gizmo.get_frommet(spam)

def f2(gizmo):
# global spam holds the frommet needed for the gizmo
gizmo.get_frommet(spam)

I'm sure they're both wrong, but I'd like to know if there are degrees of
wrongness.



-- 
Steven.

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Re: is this a valid import sequence ?

[Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch]

In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Steven
D'Aprano wrote:

> Perhaps you should consider writing a PEP to make the redundant use of the
> global statement a compile-time error?

Sometimes I wished that it would be a compile time error or at least
triggering a warning when ``global`` is used at module level.  It seems a
common error from people used to declare variables at that level in other
languages.

Ciao,
Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch
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Re: The Modernization of Emacs: terminology buffer and keybinding

[Martin Gregorie]

Twisted wrote:
> On Jun 23, 10:36 am, Martin Gregorie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> 
> Actually, what I prefer in (2D and 3D) visual design apps is the
> ability to snap to some kind of grid/existing vertices, and to zoom in
> close. Then small imprecisions in mouse movement can be rendered
> unimportant.
>
That might work for visual design apps, but it doesn't for CAD, where 
you may want to point to an arbitrary position with a (scaled) accuracy 
of microns.

The fact remains that mechanical mice do jump when you click them, 
though optical mice are better in this respect.

> The problem of course being the complete exclusion of type 1 users.
 >
Totally untrue. They are the people that all the standard GUIs are 
designed for and some (e.g Mackintosh) are very fast to learn. The 
exclusion is down to the way that the purveyors of GUIs keep spreading 
bullshit about how any untrained person can use a computer and never 
mess it up or loose data. Thats not true and never can be: a computer is 
the most complex device the average person will own or use and is likely 
  to retain that title for the foreseeable future.

I grant you that type 2 users are rare, but I think flight simulators 
may fit this case when  used for training.

> One with a bog-standard UI but also a "console" or command prompt,
> scripting language, and customizable bindings?
>
Not really. What's needed is a single interface that can be used by 
anybody from beginner to expert and that, in the case of an error, shows 
precisely where it got, what caused the action to fail to complete and 
that allows the user to continue from that point without having to 
undo/redo the bits that were successful. Its not easy, but it can be done.

> ROM BASICs and QBasic (on any really ancient microcomputer, and old
> pre-Windows PCs, respectively; the former came with printed manuals
> and you could just run prepackaged software from disks very easily;
 >
Hang on: you don't read manuals. You object to using tutorials and to 
buying books, so its a bit precious to claim this example.

> * The word processor with the usual interface where I can define
> logical styles, then change them in only one place and affect every
> pre-existing occurrence retroactively.
 >
Thats been in Word since DOS days and is part of OpenOffice. Its called 
a "style sheet". The only WPs I've used that didn't use them were 
Wordperfect, WordStar, DEC WPS+ and the Wang dedicated WP systems. All 
were horrid to varying degrees, with Wordperfect and Wordstar tying for 
worst.

> * The word processor with the usual interface where I can also view an
> underlying markup representation and hand-hack that,
 >
You're thinking of Wordperfect and its 'Reveal Codes' function. That was 
the worst idea I've ever seen in a WP, matched only by the illogically 
arranged set of 12 function keys, each with 4 shifts.

> and which likely has the capabilities of the first two as a direct
 > consequence of the implied architecture.
 >
It didn't. 'Reveal codes' could only let you inspect the current 
document. Unfortunately it was essential to use it because some input 
sequences could completely mess up the formatting and the only way to 
recover was via 'Reveal codes'. The effect was similar to making a data 
entry clerk use a hex editor on a database to fix keyboarding errors.

NOTE: I'm not talking about secretaries using WordPerfect. Those that 
used it hated it. I'm talking about the experience of IT professionals 
writing structured text, e.g. system specifications.

> * The operating system where you can do powerful stuff with a command
> line and a script or two, but can also get by without either. (Windows
> fails the former. Linux fails the latter.)
 >
Here you're talking about two different interfaces again. The nearest 
I've seen to good solutions at OS level were the CL interface provided 
by ICL's VME mainframes and IBM's AS/400 systems. The latter was 
particularly good, with a single unified text screen interface which 
provided help screens, menus and a command line. You could search for 
and find commands via a menu structure, and then use form filling to 
provide the arguments, with help available at any stage. If you were 
writing a script the entire menu and form filling system was available 
from within the text editor - but when you hit ENTER the completed 
command was written into your script instead of being executed.

Both OS/400 and VME were very consistent in the way they assigned 
command names and argument keywords. In both OSen it was possible to 
think "if there's a command to do this it will be called BLAHBLAH", type 
the name, hit the command completion key and have the argument entry 
screen pop up ready to be filled in.

BTW, in both OSen this capability applied to user-written scripts and 
programs as well as to the standard command set. Both could claim to be 
object oriented: the VME command language was derived from Algol-68, 
arguably the granddaddy of all OO 

Re: The Modernization of Emacs: terminology buffer and keybinding

[Martin Gregorie]

Twisted wrote:
> At least Windows 3.1 had most apps have the same keys for the vast
> majority of commands, and those were the right keys. Emacs has all the
> applications have the vast majority of their commands use the same
> WRONG keys. Including whatever you'd use to rebind them. And the help
> you'd use to find out what the damn keys are in the first place. ;)
>
You're mis-remembering this.

Apple, first with the Lisa and then with the Mackintosh, had extremely 
consistent menus, menu shortcuts and other key assignments. It was 
possible to teach almost anybody to use them in 15 minutes flat. A major 
reason for the consistency was the Programmer's Toolbox, a piece of ROM 
that contained all the stuff an application needed to handle keyboard, 
mouse and menus. It was there and easy to use, so of course all 
applications programmers used it.

Windows 3 and 3.1 were the first usable Windows versions. Windows 1 and 
2 were a bad jokes. Win/286 worked but had no applications. Win 3.x 
worked a lot better. However, it lacked any equivalent of the 
Programmers Toolbox and as a result the applications were anything but 
consistent. MS applications were self-similar, but other apps used 
wildly divergent ideas about menu structures, shortcuts and key 
assignments. Compare 3.x versions of Word with Wordperfect, or the 
Borland IDEs and this is obvious.

MS finally kicked applications providers into more-or-less consistency 
but that wasn't before Win 95 appeared and they then spoilt the record 
by arbitrary and capricious menu changes as each version of MS Office 
appeared.


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gregorie. | Essex, UK
org   |
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Re: Collections of non-arbitrary objects ?

[Ben Finney]

walterbyrd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Suppose you are sequentially processing a list with a routine that
> expects every item to be of a certain type. Something in the list
> that doesn't conform to the type could give you unexpected results,
> maybe crash your application.

A routine that demands its inputs to be of a certain *type*, rather
than requiring that the implement the required *behaviour*, breaks
polymorphism.

Polymorphism is considered valuable in Python; search for any of
"polymorphism", "duck typing" and "easier to ask forgiveness than
permission".

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_o__)  |
Ben Finney
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Re: how to query/test the state of a qt widget?

[Diez B. Roggisch]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm writing a simple Python/Qt3 application and I am trying to write
> some code in which the user presses a button and the program performs
> action A or B depending upon the state of a pair of radio buttons. I
> would therefore like Python to read the state of the buttons. I was
> expecting this to be straightforward but I've not been able to work
> out how to do it and searching on Google hasn't helped. Surely there's
> a one-liner that will do what I want? It seems like an every-day sort
> of problem. I'm after something like:
> 
> if self.polPlotRadioButton.enabled==1: print "BLAH"
> 
> I've found squish from www.froglogic.com but that seems over the top.
> Possibly pythonqt.sourceforge.net has something that will solve my
> problem but that wants Qt4 and at the moment I'm making heavy use of
> matplotlib widgets and I've not worked out how to get them to
> incorporate into a Qt4 app so I'm stuck with Qt3.
> 
> Anyone know the answer?

RTFM. The Qt-docs are extensive. And the QRadioButton-docs are pretty 
straight forward:

http://doc.trolltech.com/3.3/qradiobutton.html#checked-prop



So your code above should be

if self.polPlotRadioButton.isChecked(): print "blah"

Diez
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Re: how to query/test the state of a qt widget?

[raacampbell]

> RTFM. The Qt-docs are extensive. And the QRadioButton-docs are pretty
> straight forward:
>
> http://doc.trolltech.com/3.3/qradiobutton.html#checked-prop
>
> So your code above should be
>
> if self.polPlotRadioButton.isChecked(): print "blah"

Thanks, that does indeed work.
Also, sorry, I have been trying to RTFM but I'm new to both Python and
Qt so not always sure what I'm looking for.

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Re: pydoc with METH_VARGS

[Stuart]

I'm asking if there's some sort of commenting or input file or
something to customize the output pydoc generates. Thanks.

On Jun 23, 11:00 pm, 7stud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Jun 23, 2:13 pm, Stuart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > With my Python extension module all the function definitions are with
> > METH_VARGS. The result being that pydoc, just puts "(...)" for the
> > argument list. Can I hand edit this to put the specific variable names
> > I want? With optional arguments in brackets or something?
>
> > Thanks.
>
> Are you asking whether you can change a text file that pydoc produces?

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Re: is this a valid import sequence ?

[Scott David Daniels]

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 21:11:42 -0700, Alex Martelli wrote a lot, with lots
> of YELLING.
> 
> Given the amount of SHOUTING in your post, and the fact that you feel so
> strongly about the trivial question of the redundant use of the global
> statement that you would "fail a student" who did it -- even if they did
> everything else correctly, efficiently and elegantly -- it seems to me
> that you are beyond rational discussion on this subject. 

I, for one, appreciate a second voice suggesting that your (Steve's)
vehement rejection of my technically correct and non-condemnatory post
explaining that one use of global in the OP's code was superfluous.

You said (in the previous post):
 > That's technically true, but declaring it with global makes the code
 > self-documenting and therefore easier to read.
 >
 > It's never _wrong_ to use the global statement, even if it is strictly
 > unnecessary for the Python compiler.

Your post led a newbie to presume the extra use of global was "good
style," while I think you'll find there is no such consensus.

--Scott David Daniels
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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WX call a pywx program from a program, and return values

[Marcpp]

I need to call a pywx program(1) from an wxpy program(2) and return a
value to program(2).
Any example to do it?

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automatical pdf generating

[Jackie]

Hi, all,

There are 50 folders in my hard driver C:
C:\01.c:\02,...,c:\50

There are 4 pictures in each folder:
1.jpg,2.jpg,3.jpg,4.jpg

For each folder, I want to print the 4 pictures into a single-paged
pdf file (letter sized; print horizontally). All together, I want to
get 50 pdf files with names: 01.pdf,02.pdf,...,50.pdf.

Is it possible to use Python to realized the above process? I know
there is a module named "reportlab". Is there any easy command in the
module to do my job?

Thanks

Jackie

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Re: how to query/test the state of a qt widget?

[David Boddie]

On Sun Jun 24 02:20:55 CEST 2007, raacampbell wrote:

> I'm writing a simple Python/Qt3 application and I am trying to write
> some code in which the user presses a button and the program performs
> action A or B depending upon the state of a pair of radio buttons.

You would typically connect the button's clicked() signal to a function
or method and perform the actions there. Since I don't know exactly what
you are doing, I can't give you an exact answer, but you probably want
to write something like this:

  self.connect(self.pushButton, SIGNAL("clicked()"), self.perform_action)

This assumes that you're calling connect() from a QObject subclass. If not,
you could call connect() on the button itself.

> I would therefore like Python to read the state of the buttons. I was
> expecting this to be straightforward but I've not been able to work
> out how to do it and searching on Google hasn't helped. Surely there's
> a one-liner that will do what I want? It seems like an every-day sort
> of problem. I'm after something like:
>
> if self.polPlotRadioButton.enabled==1: print "BLAH"

This is more or less what you would write in the method that gets invoked
when the clicked() signal is emitted, though you would need to call
enabled() since it's a method and not an attribute.

> I've found squish from www.froglogic.com but that seems over the top.
> Possibly pythonqt.sourceforge.net has something that will solve my
> problem but that wants Qt4 and at the moment I'm making heavy use of
> matplotlib widgets and I've not worked out how to get them to
> incorporate into a Qt4 app so I'm stuck with Qt3.

It's been a while since I've looked at using matplotlib with PyQt. Looking
at the 0.90.1 release, it seems that there is support for PyQt4, so maybe
you'll get what you need if you upgrade to that.

I don't think you need Squish for this - it's a tool for automated user
interface testing, and you're not doing that as far as I can tell.

David
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Re: visual gui ides for python/jythpn

[Luis M . González]

On 24 jun, 04:23, "Ethan Kennerly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Luis M. Gonzalez wrote:
> > PythonCard is an extremely easy to use alternative.
> > It's like a simplified Visual Basic or Delphi IDE.
> > Check IT out:www.pythoncard.org
>
> I second that!  PythonCard is a rapid way to prototype an ugly Windows GUI.
> (It's not PythonCard's fault that Windows are ugly. ;)  )  I use it for
> prototyping.
>
> But ONLY for prototyping.  At least with my version in Windows, it's got
> bugs in the resource editor.  For example, Korean characters in Korean fonts
> are rotated sideways.  And the color of a font can't be changed; only the
> foreground color can, which corrupts button display.  The send to back/front
> options don't seem to work.  Transparent images (like PNG) don't seem to
> work ... for me, anway.
>
> Yet, still, when I'm rapidly developing the mechanics of a game and need a
> GUI front-end, PythonCard was a quick solution.  It brilliantly stores the
> GUI as a recursive dictionary, which is like XML, only easy for a human to
> read.  The widgets require very little of your coding.  It's got a lot of
> samples, which makes some of its peculiar conventions easy to apply.  And
> any Python app made with the PythonCard framework has a namespace viewer,
> shell, and GUI message integrated into the application.
>
> Flash and Python:  The ultimate GUI prototyping combo?
>
> In my dreams, I would use Flash for the GUI portion of a Python app.  Flash
> is by far my favorite environment for rapidly designing interfaces.  It is
> an (almost) object-oriented drawing environment that can quickly produce
> good visual design.  Because the elements are instances of prototypes (Flash
> calls them symbols), they can be easily replaced and updated at any time.
> The timeline, animation, color, layer, and drawing tools are wonderful.  You
> can quickly make traditional or experimental interfaces.  The only thing
> that sucked (for me), was ActionScript.  It's not bad.  It's quite good for
> interface scripting.  But for back-end procedures it is prison compared to
> Python.
>
> Does anyone successfully use a Flash front-end and Python back-end in
> real-time?  I've tried an example of XMLRPC servers where a Flash app (SWF)
> communicates with Python (http://www.cs.unc.edu/~parente/tech/tr01.shtml),
> but that has a round-trip time that is too slow for something like a
> videogame (updates at 30 frames per second).  Some of the projects at OS
> flash look promising (http://osflash.org/ext_howto), but I haven't found the
> part that says that my interface made in Macromedia Flash (which is a
> fantastic design environment) can be used with my code in Python with a
> real-time frame rate.
>
> -- Ethan

Ethan,

If you are looking for something more ´advanced´ than a simple windows
GUI, I suggest checking out Silverlight, wich is the new deployment
technology that ties Ironpython to the browser.
With it, you can use Ironpython (wich is Python for .NET) to create
apps that run on the browser, the same way you would use javascript,
with a lot of new features like animations (ala flash).
You are not only limited to Ironpython though. You can use any .NET
language, includin other dynamic ones such as Ironruby (not released
yet).
It is a Microsoft technology, but it works on Firefox as well as IE,
on Windows and Mac.
It will also run on linux through a Mono project called Moonlight.

Luis

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Re: automatical pdf generating

[John Nagle]

Jackie wrote:
> Hi, all,
> 
> There are 50 folders in my hard driver C:
> C:\01.c:\02,...,c:\50
> 
> There are 4 pictures in each folder:
> 1.jpg,2.jpg,3.jpg,4.jpg
> 
> For each folder, I want to print the 4 pictures into a single-paged
> pdf file (letter sized; print horizontally). All together, I want to
> get 50 pdf files with names: 01.pdf,02.pdf,...,50.pdf.
> 
> Is it possible to use Python to realized the above process? I know
> there is a module named "reportlab". Is there any easy command in the
> module to do my job?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jackie
> 

 Generate HTML for such pages, open them with OpenOffice, and
have OpenOffice generate the PDF file.

John Nagle
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Re: is this a valid import sequence ?

[Alex Martelli]

Scott David Daniels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 21:11:42 -0700, Alex Martelli wrote a lot, with lots
> > of YELLING.
> > 
> > Given the amount of SHOUTING in your post, and the fact that you feel so
> > strongly about the trivial question of the redundant use of the global
> > statement that you would "fail a student" who did it -- even if they did
> > everything else correctly, efficiently and elegantly -- it seems to me
> > that you are beyond rational discussion on this subject. 
> 
> I, for one, appreciate a second voice suggesting that your (Steve's)
> vehement rejection of my technically correct and non-condemnatory post
> explaining that one use of global in the OP's code was superfluous.

Glad to hear this!  I think the root of the issue is in learning to read
"superfluous" as a NEGATIVE word -- follow Occam, and learn to not
multiply entities beyond need:-).


> You said (in the previous post):
>  > That's technically true, but declaring it with global makes the code
>  > self-documenting and therefore easier to read.
>  >
>  > It's never _wrong_ to use the global statement, even if it is strictly
>  > unnecessary for the Python compiler.
> 
> Your post led a newbie to presume the extra use of global was "good
> style," while I think you'll find there is no such consensus.

I concur: having discussed style issues at many Python shops, I'm quite
convinced that the general consensus is closer to the "redundant is bad"
approach.  Exhaustively listing all of the redundancies that are to be
eschewed would of course take far too long; a more common approach is to
try to identify those extremely few cases where redundancy IS explicitly
deemed OK (and leave all other redundancies intrinsically disapproved).

The cases I've seen with reasonable frequency for accepting certain
redundancies basically boil down to accepting some "redundant
parentheses".  Python has many levels of priorities in expressions, and
while they do tend to work "just right" there are always some corner
cases where even a frequent Python coder MAY feel uncertain for a moment
(and these uncertainties grow for coders that also have to use, e.g., C,
or Fortran, &c, frequently).  So, spelling things out as, e.g.,
(-a) ** b
versus
-(a ** b)
is not unreasonable (vs just coding '-a**b' and relying on the reader to
know exactly which of the two cases applies).  An important subcase has
to do with tuples -- while I personally prefer to use parentheses around
tuples only where they're indispensable, I understand the opposite
stance, where parentheses are always placed around tuples (it may be
hard to memorize exactly all cases where they're required, e.g. when the
tuple is the expression in a listcomp...).

A more debatable case, IMHO, is slicing (and the related cases of range
and xrange).  Do you ever write x[0:N:1], xrange(0, N), etc?  Or are the
simpler x[:N], xrange(N), etc, always to be preferred?  This is one of
the few cases where I've seen group consensus fail to emerge in
discussions about Python style even in close-knit teams...


Alex
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Re: database design help

[Jim]

It sounds to me that you want Subversion.  There is a Python binding
if you have anything you'd need to do beyond what already comes with
the system (there are a variety of web interfaces already out there,
for instance, so I don't know that you'd need to do anything extra).
Just google "subversion".

Jim

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Re: automatical pdf generating

[M��ta-MCI]

> Is it possible to use Python to realized the above process?
> I know there is a module named "reportlab".

Possible? Yes!





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Re: automatical pdf generating

[Grant Edwards]

On 2007-06-24, Jackie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> For each folder, I want to print the 4 pictures into a single-paged
> pdf file (letter sized; print horizontally). All together, I want to
> get 50 pdf files with names: 01.pdf,02.pdf,...,50.pdf.
>
> Is it possible to use Python to realized the above process?

Yes.

> I know there is a module named "reportlab". Is there any easy
> command in the module to do my job?

Yes.

http://www.reportlab.org/rl_toolkit.html
http://www.reportlab.com/docs/userguide.pdf

-- 
Grant Edwards   grante Yow!  You mean you don't
  at   want to watch WRESTLING
   visi.comfrom ATLANTA?
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Re: smtp server simulation using Python

[William Gill]

Dave Borne wrote:
>> I have a (web) development computer w/o an SMTP server and want to test
>> form generated e-mail using a dummy SMTP server that delivers the mail
>> message to a file, or better yet, to a text editor instead of actually
>> sending it.
> 
> Here's a quick and dirty script I use this for email testing purposes
> - it's windows specific, but that's easy enough to change.

Actually XP is where I need it.
Thanks

Bill
> 
> import smtpd, os, time, asyncore
> 
> class mailserver(smtpd.SMTPServer):
>def __init__(self):
>smtpd.SMTPServer.__init__(self, ('',25), None)
>print 'Mailsink listening on port 25'
> 
>def process_message(self, peer, mailfrom, rcpttos, data):
>basepath='c:\\.maildump'
> 
>print 'mail from: %s to: %s' %(mailfrom, repr(rcpttos))
>for rcpt in rcpttos:
>rcpt = rcpt.split('@')[0]
>try:
>os.mkdir(basepath+'\\'+rcpt)
>except OSError:
>pass
> 
>f =
> file(basepath+'\\'+rcpt+'\\'+mailfrom+time.strftime('%Y%m%d%H%M%S'),
> 'w')
>f.write(data)
>f.close()
> 
> def loop ():
>x = mailserver()
>try:
>asyncore.loop(timeout=2)
>except KeyboardInterrupt:
>print'interrupt'
>x.close()
> 
> if __name__=='__main__':
>loop()
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Accessing variable from a function within a function

[Nathan Harmston]

Hi,

I m playing around with extended euclids algorithm from Knuth. I m
trying to build a function with a function inside it.

def exteuclid(m,n):
  a,a1,b,b1,c,d = 0,1,1,0,m,n
  def euclid(c,d):
q = c /d
r = c % d
if r == 0:
print a,b
return d
else:
print a1,a,b1,b,c,d,q,r
t = b1
b = t - q * b
a = t - q * a
c,d,a1,b1 = d,r,a,b
return euclid(c,d)
return euclid(c,d)

Unfortunately this doesnt work since a,a1,b,b1 arent declared in the
function. Is there a way to make these variables accessible to the
euclid function. Or is there a better way to design this function?

Many Thanks in advance,

Nathan
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Re: The Modernization of Emacs: terminology buffer and keybinding

[David Golden]

Thomas Bellman wrote:
> I seem to recall that EMACS, the old TECO version on TOPS-20 and
> ITS, only supported two windows ("panes" in Twisted's words).  So
> it's not *completely* false, just extremely outdated.
> 
> 

Well, that's going back a bit.  I somehow doubt he was using that, but I
guess it's possible (he did claim emacs is a "unix" text editor
though)...












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emacs for python

[Rustom Mody]

I wish to set up emacs for python usage.  The specific questions are:

1. Which python mode should one use?  It seems there is one from python and
one from emacs and both are deliberately named so as to be confusable!! I
would like one that gives...

2. Good support for debugging: I hear pdbtrack is better than pdb -- but I
am not able to figure how to use it.

3. Is it possible to get brief help on methods/functions using
mouse-hovering/F1 rather than having to go out to pydoc etc

4. Also maybe a (minor?) mode to convert selections of interpreter text into
doctests?

5. The menu contains something called IM-python but that contains nothing
except *rescan*

6. Turning off semantic. semantic (is that the same as fly-make??) seems to
randomly get into 99% CPU usage.  How to turn it off?

Thanks
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Re: Accessing variable from a function within a function

[Michael Hoffman]

Nathan Harmston wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I m playing around with extended euclids algorithm from Knuth. I m
> trying to build a function with a function inside it.
> 
> def exteuclid(m,n):
>  a,a1,b,b1,c,d = 0,1,1,0,m,n
>  def euclid(c,d):
>q = c /d
>r = c % d
>if r == 0:
>print a,b
>return d
>else:
>print a1,a,b1,b,c,d,q,r
>t = b1
>b = t - q * b
>a = t - q * a
>c,d,a1,b1 = d,r,a,b
>return euclid(c,d)
>return euclid(c,d)
> 
> Unfortunately this doesnt work since a,a1,b,b1 arent declared in the
> function. Is there a way to make these variables accessible to the
> euclid function. Or is there a better way to design this function?

Well, it would be simpler to pass through all the variables rather than 
relying on variables in a wider scope.
-- 
Michael Hoffman
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Re: Python's "only one way to do it" philosophy isn't good?

[Douglas Alan]

Steven D'Aprano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 14:56:35 -0400, Douglas Alan wrote:
>
>>> How long did it take you to write the macros, and use them, compared
>>> to running Pylint or Pychecker or equivalent?

>> An hour?  Who cares?  You write it once and then you have it for the
>> rest of your life.  You put it in a widely available library, and then
>> *every* programmer also has it for the rest of their lives.  The
>> amortized cost: $0.00.  The value: priceless.

> Really? Where do I download this macro? How do I find out about it? How
> many Lisp programmers are using it now?

(1) I didn't have to write such a macro for Lisp, as Lisp works
differently.  For one thing, Lisp already has let and set special
forms.  (Lisp uses the term "special form" for what Python would call
a "statement", but Lisp doesn't call them statements since they return
values.)

(2) You act as if I have no heavy criticisms of Lisp or the Lisp
community.  I critique everything with equal vigor, and keep an eye
out for the good aspects and ideas of everything with equal vigor.

> How does your glib response jib with your earlier claims that the
> weakness of Lisp/Scheme is the lack of good libraries?

(1) See above. (2) My response wasn't glib.

> Googling for ' "Douglas Allen" download lisp OR scheme ' wasn't very
> promising.

(1) You spelled my name wrong.  (2) I haven't written any libraries
for any mainstream dialects of Lisp since there was a web.  I did
write a multiple dispatch lookup cacher for a research dialect of
Lisp, but it  was just an exercise for a version of Lisp that few
people have ever used.

> In fairness, the various Python lints/checkers aren't part of the standard
> library either, but they are well-know "standards".

In general I don't like such checkers, as I tend to find them more
annoying than useful.

>> Thanks, but that's just too syntactically ugly and verbose for me to
>> use.

> "Syntactically ugly"? "Verbose"?

> Compare yours with mine:

> let x = 0
> let y = 1
> let z = 2
> set x = 99 

> (Looks like BASIC, circa 1979.)

It looks like a lot of languages.  And there's a reason for that -- it
was a good idea.

> variables.declare(x=0, y=1, z=2)
> variables.x = 99

> (Standard Python syntax.)

> I don't think having two easily confused names, let and set is an
> advantage,

Let and set are not easily confused.  Lisp programmers have had
absolutely no problem keeping the distinction separate for the last 47
years now.

> but if you don't like the word "declare" you could change it to
> "let", or change the name of the module to "set" (although that runs the
> risk of confusing it with sets).

> Because this uses perfectly stock-standard Python syntax, you could even
> do this, so you type fewer characters:

> v = variables
> v.x = 99

> and it would Just Work. 

I wouldn't program that way, and no one that I know would either.

In this regard you sound exactly like all the C++ folks, who when you
point out that something in C++ is inadequate for one's needs, they
point you at some cumbersome and ugly solution and then tell you that
since C++ can already deal with the complaint, that there's no good
reason to consider changing C++.  Consequently, C++ still doesn't have
a "finally" statement, and it requires either making instance
variables public or forcing the programmer to write lots of
boilerplate code writing setter and getter functions.  Fortunately,
the Python developers finally saw the errors of their ways in this
regard and fixed the situation.  But, it seems to me that you would
have been one of those people saying that there's no need to have a
way of overriding attribute assignment and fetching, as you can always
just write all that extra boilerplate code, or instead add an extra
layer of indirection (proxy objects) in your instance data to have
things done the way you want, at the expense of ugly code.

>> Not only that, but my fellow Python programmers would be sure to
>> come and shoot me if I were to code that way.

> *shrug* They'd shoot you if you used "let x = 0" too.

Clearly you are not familiar with the programmers that I work with.
As I mentioned previously, at least one of them is quite upset about
the auto-declaration feature of most scripting languages, and your
suggestion would not make her any happier.

>> One of the reasons that I want to use Python is because I like reading
>> and writing code that is easy to read and looks good.  I don't want to
>> bend it to my will at the expense of ugly looking code.

> But the "ugly looking code" is stock-standard Python syntax.

There many things that cannot be done in stock Python syntax elegantly
(e.g. multiple predicate dispatch), which is why, when programming in
Python, one often sticks to doing things the way that *can* be done
elegantly.  (This can often result in programs that are structured
less elegantly in the large, however.) If you don't recognize this,
then you must be livid over the addition to 

Re: Accessing variable from a function within a function

[7stud]

On Jun 24, 11:55 am, "Nathan Harmston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I m playing around with extended euclids algorithm from Knuth. I m
> trying to build a function with a function inside it.
>
> def exteuclid(m,n):
>   a,a1,b,b1,c,d = 0,1,1,0,m,n
>   def euclid(c,d):
> q = c /d
> r = c % d
> if r == 0:
> print a,b
> return d
> else:
> print a1,a,b1,b,c,d,q,r
> t = b1
> b = t - q * b
> a = t - q * a
> c,d,a1,b1 = d,r,a,b
> return euclid(c,d)
> return euclid(c,d)
>
> Unfortunately this doesnt work since a,a1,b,b1 arent declared in the
> function. Is there a way to make these variables accessible to the
> euclid function. Or is there a better way to design this function?
>
> Many Thanks in advance,
>
> Nathan

ef outer():
a = 10
def inner():
print a

return inner


f = outer()
f()

--output:--
10

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Re: Accessing variable from a function within a function

[Stefan Bellon]

On Sun, 24 Jun, 7stud wrote:

> ef outer():
> a = 10
> def inner():
> print a
> 
> return inner
> 
> 
> f = outer()
> f()
> 
> --output:--
> 10
> 

>>> def outer():
... a = 10
... def inner():
... a = a + 1
... print a
... return inner
... 
>>> f=outer()
>>> f()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in ?
  File "", line 4, in inner
UnboundLocalError: local variable 'a' referenced before assignment

-- 
Stefan Bellon
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dealing with emf/wmf files

[Jackie Wang]

I'd like to put some emf/wmf pictures into a pdf file
using 'reportlab', but the Python Imaging Library
cannot recognize emf files. The wmf files are said to
be 'identified only'.

Therefore, the following code does not work:

from reportlab.pdfgen import canvas
from reportlab.lib.pagesizes import letter
width, height = letter # (595.27,841.89)
def hello(c):
c.drawImage(r'D:\01.wmf',1,1,height,width)

c = canvas.Canvas('hello.pdf',
pagesize=(height,width))
hello(c)
c.showPage()
c.save()

I do not want to convert the pictures into other
formats, e.g. jpg which will lower the quality. 

Is there any way to get around with this problem?

Thanks!


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Re: Do eval() and exec not accept a function definition? (like 'def foo: pass) ?

[vasudevram]

On Jun 24, 6:28 am, Jean-Paul Calderone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 11:17:40 +1000, Steven D'Aprano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 19:58:32 +, vasudevram wrote:
>
> >> Hi group,
>
> >> Question: Do eval() and exec not accept a function definition? (like
> >> 'def foo: pass) ?
>
> >eval() is a function, and it only evaluates EXPRESSIONS, not code blocks.
>
> Actually, that's not exactly true:
>
> >>> x = compile('def foo():\n\tprint "hi"\n', '', 'exec')
> >>> l = {}
> >>> eval(x, l)
> >>> l['foo']()
> hi
> >>>
>
> Jean-Paul

Thanks, all. Will check out the replies given.
- Vasudev

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Re: Accessing variable from a function within a function

[James Stroud]

Nathan Harmston wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I m playing around with extended euclids algorithm from Knuth. I m
> trying to build a function with a function inside it.
> 
> def exteuclid(m,n):
>  a,a1,b,b1,c,d = 0,1,1,0,m,n
>  def euclid(c,d):
>q = c /d
>r = c % d
>if r == 0:
>print a,b
>return d
>else:
>print a1,a,b1,b,c,d,q,r
>t = b1
>b = t - q * b
>a = t - q * a
>c,d,a1,b1 = d,r,a,b
>return euclid(c,d)
>return euclid(c,d)
> 
> Unfortunately this doesnt work since a,a1,b,b1 arent declared in the
> function. Is there a way to make these variables accessible to the
> euclid function. Or is there a better way to design this function?
> 
> Many Thanks in advance,
> 
> Nathan

That last return statement does not match indentation of another block. 
But this is probably what you mean:

def exteuclid(m,n):
  x = 0,1,1,0,m,n
  def euclid(c,d,x=x):
a,a1,b,b1,c,d = x
q = c /d
r = c % d
if r == 0:
print a,b
return d
else:
print a1,a,b1,b,c,d,q,r
t = b1
b = t - q * b
a = t - q * a
c,d,a1,b1 = d,r,a,b
return euclid(c,d)
return euclid(c,d)

James
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Re: The Modernization of Emacs: terminology buffer and keybinding

[Twisted]

On Jun 24, 8:10 am, Martin Gregorie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> > Actually, what I prefer in (2D and 3D) visual design apps is the
> > ability to snap to some kind of grid/existing vertices, and to zoom in
> > close. Then small imprecisions in mouse movement can be rendered
> > unimportant.
>
> That might work for visual design apps, but it doesn't for CAD, where
> you may want to point to an arbitrary position with a (scaled) accuracy
> of microns.

I didn't mention that you should be able to zoom and make the grid
fine to whatever limit is reasonable given the application? The issue
being, how accurate is "accurate enough"? Pinpoint precision isn't
possible, unless it's an integer or a functionally derived value like
pi or some arithmetic result of that. Grids are good for getting
rational numbers exactly, and nothing will hit the irrational ones
exactly, save if you can enter a formula for it to use to compute the
point's location to any desired precision. A mouse click (sans grid)
will always introduce some error; the zoom level lets you limit the
magnitude of the error. So does a grid, and to zero if the desired
point is a grid vertex, and to half the grid size more generally.

> The fact remains that mechanical mice do jump when you click them,
> though optical mice are better in this respect.

Ultimately, the button has to be non-mechanical for this sort of thing
to really work. Or else not physically part of the mouse. Being able
to "click" from the keyboard makes sense given such requirements. So
does being able to snap to a grid.

> > The problem of course being the complete exclusion of type 1 users.
>
> Totally untrue.

I'm not talking about in general. I'm talking about the specific sorts
of unixy applications that are under discussion here. Those
emphatically cater solely to type-3s and type-4s, aside from newer
graphical apps for KDE and Gnome, which are emerging as a third group
of type-1-accessible tool alongside Mac applications and Windows
applications.

> Thats not true and never can be: a computer is
> the most complex device the average person will own or use and is likely
>   to retain that title for the foreseeable future.

What about the fabrication devices? Oh, but I suppose the "foreseeable
future" has already ended by the time those trickle down to widespread
consumer use.

> I grant you that type 2 users are rare, but I think flight simulators
> may fit this case when  used for training.

Anything you have to use to meet some important external goal, I
suppose. But most usually there are options. A programmer needs a text
editor but it need not be emacs. Jobs requiring the use of specific
software (for training, or just on the job) maybe, of which your
example is a subset.

> Not really. What's needed is a single interface that can be used by
> anybody from beginner to expert and that, in the case of an error, shows
> precisely where it got, what caused the action to fail to complete and
> that allows the user to continue from that point without having to
> undo/redo the bits that were successful. Its not easy, but it can be done.

Why do those who have the skills, talent, knowledge, and thus
capability to do this insist on making cruft like emacs then? I've
never seen a classic-unix tool that didn't barf unhelpful and
uninformative error messages at the drop of a hat (just like Windows!)
and present a piss-poor UI, or even no UI at all (unless "usage: blah
blah blah" qualifies as a UI, to which my response is one word. "Non-
interactive.") When the error messages are informative, they're still
cryptic, and only someone with knowledge of the software's internals
has a hope in hell of fixing the problem as a rule. Of course, the
number one rule of interface design is to speak the user's language
and the language of the problem domain, and remain mute (except to
developers invoking debug modes) about the implementation details and
the language of the solution domain. Especially given that a different
version of the same software, nevermind a different app with the same
usage, is probably going to use a different implementation anyway. One
exception can be to expose a specific scripting language for advanced
users to use to automate tasks. Emacs does this, and it's one thing I
don't have a problem with. As long as knowledge of its arcana is not
needed to either do straightforward stuff, or fix the errors that
occur attempting to do straightforward stuff, anyway. If the beginner
can safely ignore the thing's existence (e.g. the VB-based scripting
language in some office and paint programs) it's fine.

> > ROM BASICs and QBasic (on any really ancient microcomputer, and old
> > pre-Windows PCs, respectively; the former came with printed manuals
> > and you could just run prepackaged software from disks very easily;
>
> Hang on: you don't read manuals. You object to using tutorials and to
> buying books, so its a bit precious to claim this example.

The manuals came with the computer

Re: Adding method to a class on the fly

[John Henry]

On Jun 24, 1:19 am, John Henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Jun 23, 6:24 pm, Steven D'Aprano
>
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 12:31:39 -0700, John Henry wrote:
> > > it works fine but PythonCard isn't calling this function when I
> > > clicked on the button.
>
> > I think you need to take this question onto a PythonCard list. I have no
> > idea how PythonCard decides which method to call.
>
> > --
> > Steven.
>
> I did.  I am not sure I'll get an answer though.
>
> Thanks for the help.

Upon further investigation, I found the problem.

Pythoncard is relying on the __name__ attribute and that's why it
didn't know about the newly careated function.  I can not set that
attribute directly, of course, since it's a readonly attribute.  Need
other workaround.

The author of Pythoncard has responded and so I am shifting this
thread over to the Pythoncard list.

Thanks again for all the help.  I learned a few things about Python
through this exercise.

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Re: dealing with emf/wmf files

[Michael Hoffman]

Jackie Wang wrote:
> I'd like to put some emf/wmf pictures into a pdf file
> using 'reportlab', but the Python Imaging Library
> cannot recognize emf files. The wmf files are said to
> be 'identified only'.

libwmf (not for Python) can convert WMF (not EMF) to SVG or EPS.

http://wvware.sourceforge.net/libwmf.html
-- 
Michael Hoffman
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Re: Accessing variable from a function within a function

[James Stroud]

James Stroud wrote:
> Nathan Harmston wrote:
> def exteuclid(m,n):
>  x = 0,1,1,0,m,n
>  def euclid(c,d,x=x):
>a,a1,b,b1,c,d = x
>q = c /d
>r = c % d
>if r == 0:
>print a,b
>return d
>else:
>print a1,a,b1,b,c,d,q,r
>t = b1
>b = t - q * b
>a = t - q * a
>c,d,a1,b1 = d,r,a,b
>return euclid(c,d)
>return euclid(c,d)
> 
> James

My answer above is wrong because c and d take the wrong default values. 
Also, you have some ambiguity in your code. Are nested calls to euclid 
supposed to have the original values of a, a1, b, & b1, or are they to 
take the original values 0, 1, 1, 0? This type of ambiguity is one 
reason why the interpreter does not like reference before assignment. 
This is my best guess at what you want because I'm not familiar with how 
euclid's algorithm works:

def exteuclid(m,n):
   def euclid(a,a1,b,b1,c,d):
q = c /d
r = c % d
if r == 0:
print a,b
return d
else:
print a1,a,b1,b,c,d,q,r
t = b1
b = t - q * b
a = t - q * a
c,d,a1,b1 = d,r,a,b
return euclid(a,a1,b,b1,c,d)
   return euclid(0,1,1,0,m,n)
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newbie tcp/ip question

[Zachary Manning]

Hello all,

I'm having a hard time tracking down a way to open up a tcp/ip client 
connection and simply sending a string to the port I've opened up.

For instance

I want to send some hex characters as a string literal to port 7142 and 
to a specific ip address. How do I do that in python?



thanks,

zm
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Re: newbie tcp/ip question

[Jacek Trzmiel]

Hi,

Zachary Manning wrote:
> I'm having a hard time tracking down a way to open up a tcp/ip client 
> connection and simply sending a string to the port I've opened up.
> 
> For instance
> 
> I want to send some hex characters as a string literal to port 7142 and 
> to a specific ip address. How do I do that in python?

Google for: python socket example

Best regards,
Jacek.

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Re: newbie tcp/ip question

[Stephen R Laniel]

On Sun, Jun 24, 2007 at 02:52:25PM -0500, Zachary Manning wrote:
> I want to send some hex characters as a string literal to port 7142 and 
> to a specific ip address. How do I do that in python?

Does this cover what you want to do?
http://docs.python.org/lib/socket-example.html

-- 
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cell: +(617) 308-5571
http://laniels.org/
PGP key: http://laniels.org/slaniel.key
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Re: automatical pdf generating

[vasudevram]

On Jun 24, 10:03 pm, Grant Edwards <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 2007-06-24, Jackie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > For each folder, I want to print the 4 pictures into a single-paged
> > pdf file (letter sized; print horizontally). All together, I want to
> > get 50 pdf files with names: 01.pdf,02.pdf,...,50.pdf.
>
> > Is it possible to use Python to realized the above process?
>
> Yes.
>
> > I know there is a module named "reportlab". Is there any easy
> > command in the module to do my job?
>
> Yes.
>
> http://www.reportlab.org/rl_toolkit.htmlhttp://www.reportlab.com/docs/userguide.pdf
>
> --
> Grant Edwards   grante Yow!  You mean you don't
>   at   want to watch WRESTLING
>visi.comfrom ATLANTA?

There are many different ways to do what you want, as the other
replies say.

1. If you're not a programmer, the OpenOffice suggestion is good.

2.1 If you're a programmer, read up on the ReportLab docs shown in a
previous reply by Grant Edwards, and try it out. Equivalently, you
could use Ruby and PDF::Writer. Both ReportLab and PDF::Writer have
support for creating PDFs with images, and both Python and Ruby can
automate the part of iterating over the multiple files and
directories.

2.2 Also you could try another approach - use some scripting language
like Python (or Perl or Ruby) together with one of the free PDF
creation / conversion tools that you can easily find on the Internet
by a Google search (using suitable keywords like "HTML to PDF", "PDF
conversion", etc. Make sure to try out various combinations /
variations of keywords if you don't get a solution at once - this is
fundamental to Web searching.

And ... if you're not a programmer, consider becoming one :-)
It's good fun, and will help you do a lot of things ...

Vasudev Ram
http://www.dancingbison.com
http://jugad.livejournal.com
http://sourceforge.net/projects/xtopdf

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Re: Collections of non-arbitrary objects ?

[Bruno Desthuilliers]

walterbyrd a écrit :
> On Jun 22, 11:43 pm, Ben Finney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Can you help us understand, by showing a use case that would in your
>>estimation be improved by the feature you're describing?
>>
> 
> 
> Suppose you are sequentially processing a list with a routine that
> expects every item to be of a certain type. 

it should expects every item to support a given protocol (expose a given 
interface, have a given set of attributes, whatever...).

OOP is not about "types" or "classes", it's about objects. And in a 
dynamic language like Python, where you can add/remove/replace almost 
each attribute (including methods and even it's class...) of an object 
at runtime, override the way the attribute look-up is done, etc, this is 
specially true.

The fact that an object is an instance of a given class doesn't 
necessarily imply that it supports the same protocol. And the fact that 
an object is an instance of a given class is only true at a given 
time... So testing on type to allow inclusion of an object in a list for 
"type safety" reasons is mostly a waste of time. It's also 
counter-productive since it would reject objects that actually supports 
the right protocol but are not of the "correct type".

> Something in the list that
> doesn't conform to the type

s/conform to the type/support the protocol/

> could give you unexpected results, maybe
> crash your application.

Yes. But... you do test your application, don't you ?-)

> In python, as far as I know, there is nothing built into the language
> to keep any type of item from being included in a list

No. cf above.

> - or any such
> structure. To me, that seems like a potentially vulnerability.

Did you actually had some effective problem with this ?

> Especially since variables in python do not have to be explicitly
> assigned

???

I suppose you meant something else here, probably about declarative typing ?

> - another variable that points to the same thing, could
> change the data that a variable points to.

Give me a reference to an object in a list, and I can change almost any 
attribute of the object - even it's class.

FWIW, a similar - but usually much much worse wrt/ possible results - 
problem exists in C with pointers and memory.

I came to Python from statically typed languages, and first had a 
similar reaction. It took me some time to believe it, but type errors 
are quite less frequent that you would imagine, and most of the time 
quite trivial to spot and fix. I've had bigger problems with memory 
handling and dangling pointers in C, Pascal or C++.
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Re: Adding method to a class on the fly

[John Henry]

On Jun 24, 12:40 pm, John Henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Jun 24, 1:19 am, John Henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 23, 6:24 pm, Steven D'Aprano
>
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 12:31:39 -0700, John Henry wrote:
> > > > it works fine but PythonCard isn't calling this function when I
> > > > clicked on the button.
>
> > > I think you need to take this question onto a PythonCard list. I have no
> > > idea how PythonCard decides which method to call.
>
> > > --
> > > Steven.
>
> > I did.  I am not sure I'll get an answer though.
>
> > Thanks for the help.
>
> Upon further investigation, I found the problem.
>
> Pythoncard is relying on the __name__ attribute and that's why it
> didn't know about the newly careated function.  I can not set that
> attribute directly, of course, since it's a readonly attribute.  Need
> other workaround.
>
> The author of Pythoncard has responded and so I am shifting this
> thread over to the Pythoncard list.
>
> Thanks again for all the help.  I learned a few things about Python
> through this exercise.


Okay, just to complete the record - in case anybody tries to google
for a solution to add control to PythonCard at run time, here's a
complete code:

#!/usr/bin/python

"""
__version__ = "$Revision: 1.6 $"
__date__ = "$Date: 2004/08/17 19:46:06 $"
"""

import new

from PythonCard import log
from PythonCard import model
from PythonCard.model import SetInitParam

rsrc = {'application':{'type':'Application',
  'name':'Minimal',
'backgrounds': [
{'type':'Background',
  'name':'bgMin',
  'title':'Minimal PythonCard Application',
  'size':(200, 300),
 'components': [

] # end components
} # end background
] # end backgrounds
} }

class Background_Dynamic(model.Background):

def __init__(self, aParent, aBgRsrc,
SetInitParamFct=SetInitParam):
model.Background.__init__(self, aParent, aBgRsrc,
SetInitParamFct)

def addHandler(self, aMethod):
# Add the Handler to our Handler list.
if aMethod.name not in self._handlers:
log.debug("addHandler: " + aMethod.name)
#self._handlers[aMethod.name] = event.Handler(aMethod)
self._handlers[aMethod.name] = aMethod

def mouseclick_factory(self, name):
def function(self, background, event):
self.mouseclick_factory("Button"+str(int(name[-1:])+1))
function.name = "on_%s_mouseClick" % name
method = new.instancemethod(function, self, self.__class__)
setattr(self, function.name, method)
self.addHandler(method)
self.components[name] = {'type':'Button',
 'name':name,
 'label':name,
 'position':(5,
5+int(name[-1:])*30),
 'text':name}
return function

class Minimal(Background_Dynamic):
def on_initialize(self, event):
self.components['field1'] =
{'type':'TextField','name':'field1','position':(5, 5),'size':(150,
-1),'text':'Hello PythonCard'}
self.mouseclick_factory("Button1")

if __name__ == '__main__':
app = model.Application(Minimal, None, rsrc)
app.MainLoop()


It goes to show how flexible and powerful PythonCard is.  Too bad it
doesn't draw the attention of more new comers.

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Re: Accessing variable from a function within a function

[Marcin Ciura]

Nathan Harmston wrote:
> Unfortunately this doesnt work since a,a1,b,b1 arent declared in the
> function. Is there a way to make these variables accessible to the
> euclid function. Or is there a better way to design this function?

The canonical recommendations are: use attributes of the inner
function or one-element lists as writable variables visible
in the outer function.

Another possibility is to modify the bytecode of the functions
by an appropriate decorator. See
http://www-zo.iinf.polsl.gliwice.pl/~mciura/software/expose.py
(you'll need the byteplay module by Noam Raphael to make it work).
   Marcin
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cx_oracle

[Lukas Ziegler]

Hi,

I want to get an access to an oracle database.
For that I found the module cx_oracle
(http://www.python.net/crew/atuining/cx_Oracle/) and 
I have installed the version 'Windows Installer (Oracle 10g, Python 2.5)'.

Now I tried to run the script in the readme file:
---
import cx_Oracle

# connect via SQL*Net string or by each segment in a separate argument
#connection = cx_Oracle.connect("user/[EMAIL PROTECTED]")
connection = cx_Oracle.connect("user", "password", "TNS")

cursor = connection.cursor()
cursor.arraysize = 50
cursor.execute("""
select Col1, Col2, Col3
from SomeTable
where Col4 = :arg_1
  and Col5 between :arg_2 and :arg_3""",
arg_1 = "VALUE",
arg_2 = 5,
arg_3 = 15)
for column_1, column_2, column_3 in cursor.fetchall():
print "Values:", column_1, column_2, column_3
---

And I got an error:
---
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Python25\cal_adjustment.py", line 1, in 
import cx_Oracle
ImportError: DLL load failed: Das angegebene Modul wurde nicht gefunden.
---


Do someone have an idea to solve the problem? A reinstall doesn't work.

Cheers
lukas



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Re: high performance/threaded applications in Python - your experiences?

[Josiah Carlson]

Ivan Voras wrote:
> Jay Loden wrote:
> 
>> I was hoping for some experiences that some of you on the list may have had 
>> in dealing with Python in a high performance and/or threaded environment. In 
>> essence, I'm wondering how big of a deal the GIL can be in a  real-world 
>> scenario where you need to take advantage of multiple processor machines, 
>> thread pools, etc. How much does it get in the way (or not), and how 
>> difficult have you found it to architect applications for high performance? 
>> I have read a number of articles and opinions on whether or not the GIL is a 
>> good thing, and how it affects threaded performance on multiple processor 
>> machines, but what I haven't seen is experiences of people who have actually 
>> done it and reported back "it was a nightmare" or "it's no big deal" ;)
> 
> The theory: If your threads mostly do IO, you can get decent CPU usage
> even with Python. If the threads are CPU-bound (e.g. you do a lot of
> computational work), you'll effectively only make use of one processor.
> 
> In practice, I've noticed that Python applications don't scale very much
> across CPUs even if they're doing mostly IO. I blame cache trashing or
> similar effect caused by too many global synchronization events. I
> didn't measure but the speedup may even be negative with large-ish
> number of CPUs (>=4).
> 
> OTOH, if you can get by with using forking instead of threads (given
> enough effort) you can achieve very good scaling.

Also, see the 'processing' package in the Python cheeseshop.  It allows 
you to use processes rather than threads with most of the same 
abstractions.  I hear it recently acquired the ability to pass file 
handles between processes on the same machine :)

  - Josiah
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Re: The Modernization of Emacs: terminology buffer and keybinding

[Andreas Eder]

Hi Twisted,

> "Twisted" == Twisted  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Twisted> * The operating system where you can do powerful stuff with a 
command
Twisted> line and a script or two, but can also get by without either. 
(Windows
Twisted> fails the former. Linux fails the latter.)
Twisted> * For that matter, the operating system whose GUI takes the concept
Twisted> behind OLE to its logical conclusion, and lets the user separately
Twisted> choose and configure their text editing, this-editing, 
that-editing,
Twisted> whosit-viewing, and the like components, and those components are 
used
Twisted> in building more complex applications. All the alternatives would 
of
Twisted> course adhere to a common interface for a particular sort of
Twisted> component, of course. (An OO language like Java lends itself to 
this,
Twisted> what with interfaces and inheritance and dynamic
Twisted> class loading!)

Have a look at Genera, the OS of the Lisp Machines. It offers all
that and much more. Unfortunately it is almost non existent
nowadays.

'Andreas
-- 
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Re: cx_oracle

[Bernard Delmée]

Hi Lukas,

you will need a working oracle OCI client middleware before
cx_oracle can talk to your database. The easiest nowadays
is the so-called instant client, which must be available
from the otn.oracle.com site (downloads might require a
free registration). Try to get sql*plus working (the standard
Oracle command-line client), and cx should then pose no problem.

Cheers,

Bernard.
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Re: Python's "only one way to do it" philosophy isn't good?

[Robert Brown]

Steven D'Aprano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Graham talks about 25% of the Viaweb code base being macros. Imagine how
> productive his coders would have been if the language was not quite
> so minimalistic, so that they could do what they wanted without the
> _lack_ of syntax getting in the way.

Paul Graham's Viaweb code was written in Common Lisp, which is the least
minimalistic dialect of Lisp that I know.  Even though they were using this
powerful tool, they still found it useful to create new syntactic
abstractions.  How much less productive would they have been had they not
had this opportunity?
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Re: The Modernization of Emacs: terminology buffer and keybinding

[Robert Uhl]

Twisted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Jun 23, 8:35 pm, Robert Uhl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Twisted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>
>> > For an example of the latter, consider opening a file. Can't remember
>> > the exact spelling and capitalization of the file name? Sorry, bud,
>> > you're SOL. Go find it in some other app and memorize the name, then
>> > return to emacs.
>>
>> Once again I am forced to wonder if you have _ever_ actually used
>> emacs.  find-file has tab completion: hit tab without anything typed, and
>> it displays _everything_ in the directory; type a few characters to
>> narrow it down; hit tab to complete the filename and be done with it.
>>
>> Or of course you could use directory mode, which enables you to navigate
>> around a directory tree, performing actions on files (including editing
>> them).
>>
>> Then of course there's ido.el, which is even better: type a few
>> characters from anywhere in the name, and it displays files matching
>> those characters.
>
> Really? None of this happens if you just do the straightforward file-
> open command, which should obviously at least provide a navigable
> directory tree, but definitely does not.

The first does.  Really, it does.  Fire up emacs (which you've never
done before) and type C-x C-f.  You will be presented with a prompt
something like 'Find file: ~/'; hit tab once; you'll see the message
'[Complete, but not unique]'; hit tab again and you will be presented a
list of all files in that directory.

> Tab completion is a poor cousin to a real directory tree navigator, as
> I'm sure most would agree.

I wouldn't.  There are several directory navigators installed on this
machine, but I never use anything more than bash's tab completion.

If you like 'em, though, just select File:Visit New File.  It gives you
a platform-default (gtk+, for me) file selector.

> Even if it will show all matches to a partial name instead of none,
> it's the textual equivalent of navigating a directory tree made into
> menus instead of provided by a proper folder view window. Windows
> users unfortunately have the experience regularly: the notorious Start
> menu. You have to expand submenus to find stuff, and you can't leave
> it idling to do something somewhere else and come back to it because
> it's a menu.

Nope, because of the way emacs works you can stop what you're doing, do
something else and come back to the minibuffer.  As an example, while I
was typing the first paragraph, I had find-file running in the
minibuffer (I was checking for the exact prompts and phrases used).

> I can only imagine the pain of trying to navigate an equivalent way in
> an 80x25 box of text information.

Fortunately, folks brighter than you & I have imagined a nice way for
us.  It pops up a new Emacs window (pane, if you prefer the terminology)
showing a list of all filenames.  You could continue typing, or just
click on a filename in the window, or hit return while the cursor is on
a filename in that window.

-- 
Robert Uhl 
Dilbert: Not more than ten minutes ago you beat a man senseless.
Alice:   He was senseless before I beat him.
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Re: The Modernization of Emacs: terminology buffer and keybinding

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

On 25 Jun., 00:52, Robert Uhl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

You guys are all in the wrong newsgroups. Please stay in comp.emacs
when discussing Emacs. Don't cross post.
Not everyone is interested in Emacs discussions.

Thanks.

Follow-up set to comp.emacs.

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Re: WX call a pywx program from a program, and return values

[kyosohma]

On Jun 24, 10:02 am, Marcpp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I need to call a pywx program(1) from an wxpy program(2) and return a
> value to program(2).
> Any example to do it?

Yup. See links below:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/tutor/2005-May/038648.html
http://www-pcmdi.llnl.gov/software-portal/cdat/tips_and_tricks/python_tips/passing_arguments.html
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail/Message/wxPython-users/3508008

Mike

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Re: Changing sound volume

[kyosohma]

On Jun 23, 7:47 am, simon kagwe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am playing sounds using the winsound module. Is there a way I can change the
> volume?

The docs don't mention anything about controlling the volume, so I
doubt it's possible with winsound. However, I found this in the
archives:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/2001-December/001899.html

It's some kind of wrapper for Snack that allows you to mess with the
volume. This site talks about Snack, winsound and another module:

http://www.zak.co.il/gpl/misc/eng/pythonsound.html

And finally a way that might work using ctypes:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-win32/2006-March/004436.html

Mike

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Re: The Modernization of Emacs: terminology buffer and keybinding

[Robert Uhl]

Twisted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> Of course, if emacs let you keep THREE windows open and visible at the
> same time, instead of being limited to one or a horizontally split two
> ... and a cramped 80x10 or so each, at that ...

I have two frames open right now: one 80x70, the other around 180x70
(characters, not pixels).  One isn't split at all; the other is split
into four windows, horizontally and vertically.

> I'll admit that it didn't USED TO 'eschew normal methods of
> navigation', but at a certain point in time there began to be 'normal
> methods of navigation' and emacs naturally began eschewing them
> promptly and has done so ever since.

emacs has continued doing its own thing, mostly because that thing is
better.  The CUA standards (there exists an emacs package if you really
want them) are broken and lame--I and most other don't wish to cripple
our text editor of choice.

> If I haven't, it must be the case that finding this tutorial (or even
> discovering that it exists) was nontrivial, or it wasn't built into
> emacs, one or the other.

When you start emacs in a text console, you see this:

  Welcome to GNU Emacs, one component of the GNU/Linux operating system.
  
  Type C-l to begin editing.
  
  Get help   C-h  (Hold down CTRL and press h)
  Emacs manual   C-h r
  Emacs tutorial C-h t   Undo changes C-x u
  Buy manualsC-h C-m Exit Emacs   C-x C-c
  Browse manuals C-h i
  Activate menubar   F10  or  ESC `  or   M-`
  (`C-' means use the CTRL key.  `M-' means use the Meta (or Alt) key.
  If you have no Meta key, you may instead type ESC followed by the character.)

A GUI window shows a similar message.  Note the 'Emacs tutorial' entry?
Or you could just go to the Help menu, then select 'Emacs Tutorial.'

>> If I'm browsing the manual online, I can switch from said manual to
>> my document buffer without making the manual scroll to the
>> documentation for switch-to-buffer.
>
> Apparently because you find the switch second nature, despite its not
> being the obvious (which is ctrl-tab, to switch between documents in
> an MDI app).

Clicking within the document's window isn't obvious?!?

> * OK, time to resort to *gulp* the help.
> * Oh, great, now what did it do? I hit F1 and ...
> * Eh. Try random stuff. Help starts with h. Alt-h? Ctrl-h? ...
> * Oh, right. I seem to remember the help popping up unwanted when I
> tried to backspace over a typo earlier, so I'll just do that.

Ha! f1 and C-h do the exact same thing.  You've obviously not used emacs
this millennium.

> WHAT menu bar? We're discussing emacs. As in, a text-mode editor. As
> in a cramped little 80x24 grid of letters, numbers, spaces, and
> punctuation with no menus, no concept of a pointing device, and a bad
> attitude.

No, we're discussing emacs, a text editor which runs in both a GUI and a
text console.  Which can display images.  It's cool like that.

> At least Windows 3.1 had most apps have the same keys for the vast
> majority of commands, and those were the right keys. Emacs has all the
> applications have the vast majority of their commands use the same
> WRONG keys.

Neither is right nor wrong; you're just used to one.  The emacs keys are
certainly more flexible and powerful, though.  Some might consider them
right for that reason.

>> Wouldn't it be cool not to have one program implement search in one
>> way, and another a second way, and yet another a third?  Wouldn't it
>> be cool to have access to a proper text editor when editing text on a
>> web page?
>
> Search is usually ctrl+f, type something, hit enter in my experience.

Unless you want regexp search.  And if you want to find again it can be
interesting.  And maybe the program defaults to case-sensitive or
case-insensitive search...

> And I can use any text editor I want to edit HTML.

You could use Notepad no doubt; you could also use a Turing machine.  I
prefer to use a useful tool.

>> Do you realise that emacs has a GUI these days?  I'm writing this in a
>> 70-line window, with gtk+ widgets.  Which means full-resolution,
>> full-colour.
>
> What are you talking about? Clearly not emacs, which is a console app
> for unix systems (with the inevitable MS-DOS ports and others).

No, as I've said over and over and over again, emacs is not what you
think it is.  It has a GUI; it has colours; it can display images; it
can use the native widget set.  It can even be configured to use native
keybindings, although that way lies madness.

> Some sort of bastardized Windows port I suppose?

Hah!  Dude, I don't use Windows--I've better things to do with my life.

-- 
Robert Uhl 
With weapons, we are citizens.  Without them, we are subjects.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Which XML?

[Bruno Barberi Gnecco]

I've found a lot of XML libraries for Python. Any advices on which
one to use (or *not* to use)? My requirements are: support for XPath,
stability (a must, segfaults are not an option), with DOM API and good
performance desirable.

Thanks for any advice.

-- 
Bruno Barberi Gnecco 
-- 
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Re: The Modernization of Emacs: terminology buffer and keybinding

[Twisted]

On Jun 24, 6:52 pm, Robert Uhl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Really? None of [navigating a folder window analogue] happens if
> > you just do the straightforward file-open command, which should
> > obviously at least provide a navigable directory tree, but
> > definitely does not.
>
> The first does.  Really, it does.  Fire up emacs (which you've never
> done before) and type C-x C-f.

Whoa, Nellie. I seem to recall we were discussing the file-open
command.
That was something else, like C-x C-o or something. More apples-and-
oranges?

> You will be presented with a prompt
> something like 'Find file: ~/'; hit tab once; you'll see the message
> '[Complete, but not unique]'; hit tab again and you will be presented a
> list of all files in that directory.

Sounds clunky anyway. I don't need a bunch of keypresses to do the
equivalent in an Explorer-based file-open dialog in a native Windows
app. Just a double-click.

Emacs, with your C-x C-f:
C-x C-f tab tab ("Startofnameofdirectory somethingElse
otherstuff")
Startofname tab tab ("Subdirectory anotherSubdirectory")
Subd tab tab

Windows:
Alt, f, o   ("Startofnameofdirectory somethingElse
otherstuff")
Click-click
  or Startofname-down-enter ("Subdirectory anotherSubdirectory")
Click-click
  or Subd-down-enter

Worst case (all keyboard): one fewer keypress. Best case (judicious
use of the mouse and smart hand placement, one by left alt and one on
the mouse): five TOTAL gestures.

In particular, C-x C-f tab tab is replaced by alt f o (four down to
three keypresses) or click file, click open (two instead of three
inputs, but you have to locate the File menu from halfway across the
screen with the pointer, so count it as three as well).

Being able to pick an item from a list just by touching the damn thing
instead of typing in a sufficiently long prefix is definitely an
advantage, and if a lot of things share the same 16-character prefix
in a particular directory, the emacs way starts to look SLOW.

Of course, there's an even faster Windows way, if you don't mind not
seeing lists of possible items:
Alt, f, o
Startofname-down-/-Subd-down-/

Straight to the subdirectory without waiting for it to display the
parent directory or the root. Same number of inputs. And of course
there's the super-fast
Alt, f, o, C-v, enter
if you happen to have the exact path in the clipboard already. I'd
like to see emacs do that, at least if the text to paste originated
outside emacs. (If I'm doing this in Winword's file open dialog it
could have originated in Notepad, Firefox, or just about anywhere
else, not just Winword.)

> If you like 'em, though, just select File:Visit New File.  It gives you
> a platform-default (gtk+, for me) file selector.

Now we're talking about a graphical port instead of stock emacs
again. :P

> Nope, because of the way emacs works you can stop what you're doing, do
> something else and come back to the minibuffer.

After spending a while brushing up on my Tibetan, I may or may not
agree, but until I've got some real meaning out of your use of jargon
like "minibuffer", I'll have to pass on this one. Nonetheless, stuff
you can do but can't know you can do without learning Tibetan is
unlikely to be of much help to the average user. :)

> Fortunately, folks brighter than you & I have imagined a nice way for
> us.  It pops up a new Emacs window (pane, if you prefer the terminology)
> showing a list of all filenames.  You could continue typing, or just
> click on a filename in the window, or hit return while the cursor is on
> a filename in that window.

Back to discussing a graphical port again. Besides the apples and
oranges issue, this amounts to implementing a dodgy imitation of a
file open dialog anyway. Why bother with such an imitation when you
can use a natively-GUI editor written for your platform and get access
to the real thing?


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Re: Using PSE under Win32

[Graham Dumpleton]

On Jun 24, 1:13 am, Eduardo Dobay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello, I've been playing around withmod_pythonthese days (using
> Publisher and PSP), and it has been working smoothly under Windows XP
> (using Apache 2.2). But when I installed PSE and went to use it 
> withmod_python, it didn't work. The error I get whenever I try to load a
> PSE page is:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>
>   File "C:\Python25\lib\site-packages\mod_python\importer.py", line
> 1537, in HandlerDispatch
> default=default_handler, arg=req, silent=hlist.silent)
>
>   File "C:\Python25\lib\site-packages\mod_python\importer.py", line
> 1229, in _process_target
> result = _execute_target(config, req, object, arg)
>
>   File "C:\Python25\lib\site-packages\mod_python\importer.py", line
> 1128, in _execute_target
> result = object(arg)
>
> TypeError: 'module' object is not callable
>
> I thought it could be some incompatibility issue between PSE andmod_python, 
> but I tried both installing the PSE binary and building
> the sources, and it didn't make a difference. Has anyone out there had
> success using PSE under Windows?
>
> (Just for the record, I did install matching versions, at least for
> Apache (2.2.3), Python (2.5) andmod_python(3.3.1). PSE doesn't seem
> to have a strict version requirement.)

What do you have PythonHandler set to and what does it identify? The
error above suggests that whatever you identify as the handler is not
a callable object like a function. Are you perhaps identifying some
sort of PSE template object as target when you shouldn't be? Post your
handler code so we can see it.

Graham

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Re: Python's "only one way to do it" philosophy isn't good?

[Douglas Alan]

Steven D'Aprano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

>> You seem oblivious to the fact that one of the huge benefits of Python
>> is its elegant and readable syntax.  The problem with not having a
>> "flexible syntax", is that a programming language can't provide
>> off-the-shelf an elegant syntax for all functionality that will ever
>> be needed.

> It is hardly "off-the-shelf" if somebody has to create new syntax
> for it.

Ummm. that's my point.  No language can provide all the syntax that
will ever be needed to write elegant code.  If module authors can
provide the syntax needed to use their module elegantly, then problem
solved.

>> Eventually programmers find themselves in need of new
>> elegant functionality, but without a corresponding elegant syntax to
>> go along with the new functionality, the result is code that does not
>> look elegant and is therefore difficult to read and thus maintain.

> That's true, as far as it goes, but I think you over-state your
> case.

I do not.

It is so easy for you, without *any* experience with a language (i.e.,
Lisp) or its community to completely dismiss the knowledge and wisdom
acquired by that community.  Doesn't that disturb you a bit?

> The syntax included in Python is excellent for most things, and even
> at its weakest, is still good. I can't think of any part of Python's
> syntax that is out-and-out bad.

The proposed syntax for using the proposed predicate-based multimethod
library is ungainly.

Until decorators were added to the language, the way to do things that
decorators are good for was ugly.  Decorators patch up one ugliness,
but who wants Python to become an old boat with lots of patches?

Nearly every addition made to Python since 1.5 could have been done in
the standard library, rather than being made to the core language, if
Python had a good macro system.  The exceptions, I think, being
objects all the way down, and generators.  Though generators could
have been done in the standard library too, if Python had first class
continuations, like Scheme and Ruby do.

Over time, an infinite number of examples will turn up like this, and
I claim (1) that it is better to modify the standard library than to
modify the language implementation, and that (2) it is better to allow
people to experiment with language features without having to modify
the implementation, and (3) that it is better to allow people to
distribute new language features for experimentation or production in
a loadable modular fashion, and (4) that it is better to allow
application developers to develope new language features for their
application frameworks than to not.

> The reality is, one can go a long, long, long distance with Python's
> syntax.

And you can go a long, long way with Basic, or Fortran, or C, or C++,
or Haskell, or Lisp.  None of this implies that there aren't
deficiencies in all of these languages.  Python is no exception.
Python just happens to be better than most in a number of significant
regards.

> Most requests for "new syntax" I've seen fall into a few
> categories:

> * optimization, e.g. case, repeat, multi-line lambda

I don't give a hoot about case or repeat, though a Lisp-like "loop
macro" might be nice.  (The loop macro is a little mini language
optimized for coding complicated loops.)  A multi-line lambda would
be very nice.

> * "language Foo looks like this, it is kewl"

Sometimes language Foo has features that are actually important to for
a specific application or problem domain.  It's no accident, for
instance, that Lisp is still the preferred language for doing AI
research.  It's better for Python if Python can accommodate these
applications and domains than for Python to give up these markets to
Foo.

> * the usual braces/whitespace flamewars
> * trying to get static type checking into the language
>
>
> So let's be specific -- what do you think Python's syntax is missing? If
> Python did have a macro facility, what would you change?

In addition to the examples given above, symbols would be nice.  Lisp
has 'em, Ruby has 'em, Python doesn't.  They are very useful.

An elegant multimethod based object system will be essential
for every language someday, when the time is right for people to
understand the advantages.

Manifest typing will be essential.

A backtracking system is important for some applications.  Perhaps all
applications, someday.

The ability to make mini-languages for specific domains, like fields
of math and science, is very useful, so the mathematicians and
scientists can denote things in a notation that is closer to the
notation that they actually work in.

Etc., etc., etc.  The future is long, and our ability to peer into it
is blurry, and languages that can adapt to the unforeseen needs of that
blurry future are the ones that will survive.

For instance, I can state with almost 100% certainty that one hundred
years from now, some dialect of Lisp will still be around and in
common usage.  I can't say the same thing about Python

Re: The Modernization of Emacs: terminology buffer and keybinding

[Twisted]

On Jun 24, 7:19 pm, Robert Uhl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Twisted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > Of course, if emacs let you keep THREE windows open and visible at the
> > same time, instead of being limited to one or a horizontally split two
> > ... and a cramped 80x10 or so each, at that ...
>
> I have two frames open right now: one 80x70, the other around 180x70
> (characters, not pixels).  One isn't split at all; the other is split
> into four windows, horizontally and vertically.

Then you're obviously not using the One True Emacs I am criticizing,
which is a console app. If we're not talking about the same piece of
software (and the one the fanatics evangelize about) then this is
pointless.

> emacs has continued doing its own thing, mostly because that thing is
> better.  The CUA standards (there exists an emacs package if you really
> want them) are broken and lame--I and most other don't wish to cripple
> our text editor of choice.

"CUA standards"? I'm sorry, I don't speak Botswanan. If you mean
Windows standards like for cut, copy, and paste, "broken and lame" is
obviously in the eye in the beholder, and something 97% of computer
users are used to is the defacto standard, so it's the other 3% that
are "broken and lame". ;)

> When you start emacs in a text console, you see this:
>
>   Welcome to GNU Emacs, one component of the GNU/Linux operating system.
>
>   Type C-l to begin editing.
>
>   Get help   C-h  (Hold down CTRL and press h)
>   Emacs manual   C-h r
>   Emacs tutorial C-h t   Undo changes C-x u

Really? That is not what I recall seeing. Are you talking about emacs-
the-text-mode-editor, or emacs-the-hybrid-somethingorother-when-you-
happen-to-run-it-from-the-command-prompt-on-unix? Because I've been
discussing the former.

>   Buy manualsC-h C-m

How crass.

First I've seen anything open source/"free" software that makes sales
pitches at you. Mostly I've only seen that with closed-source Windows
"free"ware loaded with adware, and with shareware that nags you to
register or otherwise spend money with its author. And with actual
paid products, particularly those from Intuit which act as Intuit's
front-line salesmen by trying to constantly upsell you and sell stuff
to your friends and relatives. Er, thanks but no thanks. (I don't
personally spend a dime on any Intuit products. I unfortunately know
people who do. One version of some accounting software of theirs even
spammed all of a user's email contacts, by God. Where are those
Russian spammer-targeting hitmen when you need them?)

>   Activate menubar   F10  or  ESC `  or   M-`

Definitely not the stock text-mode emacs I've had my runins with in
the past, but some kind of hybrid or offshoot, then.

> Clicking within the document's window isn't obvious?!?

Clicking within the document's window is obvious but doesn't work,
unless you're using something other than vanilla emacs at least. It
did of course work in MS-DOS Edit, later versions.

> No, we're discussing emacs, a text editor which runs in both a GUI and a
> text console.  Which can display images.  It's cool like that.

No, we're discussing ... oh, nevermind. It looks like there are
several utterly different pieces of software that have one thing in
common - the name "emacs". Anyone can dodge or seem to rebut a
criticism of one of them by describing how another of them isn't like
that. :P

> > At least Windows 3.1 had most apps have the same keys for the vast
> > majority of commands, and those were the right keys. Emacs has all the
> > applications have the vast majority of their commands use the same
> > WRONG keys.
>
> Neither is right nor wrong; you're just used to one.  The emacs keys are
> certainly more flexible and powerful, though.  Some might consider them
> right for that reason.

The Windows keys are familiar to 97% of the population. Some might
consider them right for that reason.

This is also a change from your earlier position that they were, and I
quote, "broken and lame", assuming you mean the same stock Windoze
keybindings you meant with the cryptic term "CUA standards".

> > Search is usually ctrl+f, type something, hit enter in my experience.
>
> Unless you want regexp search.  And if you want to find again it can be
> interesting.

I rarely want regexp search, and if I want it I can use Notetab, a
notepad replacement with tabbed MDI and yes, regexp search. A few tabs
and a space keypress to turn it on after ctrl+f.

As for "find again" hitting enter additional times is the usual
method, in Notetab, Notepad, and elsewhere.

> > And I can use any text editor I want to edit HTML.
>
> You could use Notepad no doubt; you could also use a Turing machine.  I
> prefer to use a useful tool.

Painting it as a choice between Notepad and emacs is the fallacy of
false dichotomy. There's Notetab (useful, but non-free) and lots of
(sometimes free) other text editors (for Windows and for other
platforms).

Some specialize in HTML e

Re: The Modernization of Emacs: terminology buffer and keybinding

[JackT]

On Jun 25, 12:32 am, Twisted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> It looks like there are
> several utterly different pieces of software that have one thing in
> common - the name "emacs"...
>
> > When you start emacs in a text console, you see this:
> >
> >  Welcome to GNUEmacs, one component of the GNU/Linux operating system.
> >  Get help   C-h  (Hold down CTRL and press h)
> >  Emacsmanual   C-h r
> >  Emacstutorial C-h t   Undo changes C-x u
>
> Really? That is not what I recall seeing. Are you talking aboutemacs-
> the-text-mode-editor, oremacs-the-hybrid-somethingorother-when-you-
> happen-to-run-it-from-the-command-prompt-on-unix? Because I've been
> discussing the former.

Everyone now uses http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/
or a minor derivative of it.

Its official distribution FTP location is
http://ftp.gnu.org/pub/gnu/emacs/

And for the Windows port, the official FTP is here
http://ftp.gnu.org/pub/gnu/emacs/windows/

We don't care about the 1970 version of Emacs,
because of course back then there WAS NO GUI.

- JackT



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Re: The Modernization of Emacs: terminology buffer and keybinding

[Cor Gest]

Some entity, AKA JackT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
wrote this mindboggling stuff:
(selectively-snipped-or-not-p)

> We don't care about the 1970 version of Emacs,
> because of course back then there WAS NO GUI.

But if you are blind as bat, any 2007's GUI is useless.

Cor

-- 
 (defvar MyComputer '((OS . "GNU/Emacs") (IPL . "GNU/Linux"))) 
The biggest problem LISP has, is that it does not appeal to dumb people
 If that fails to satisfy read the HyperSpec, woman frig or Tuxoharata
 mailpolicy @ http://www.clsnet.nl/mail.php
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how to sorted by summed itemgetter(x)

[Aldarion]

for example, let
from operator import itemgetter
items = [('a', [5, 2]), ('c', [1]), ('b', [6]), ('d', [7])]


sorted(items, key = itemgetter(1))
get this back:
[('c', [1]), ('a', [5, 2]), ('b', [6]), ('d', [7])]

but
sorted(items, key = sum(itemgetter(1)))
raise a errer:
'operator.itemgetter' object is not iterable

how to sorted by summed itemgetter(1)?
maybe sorted(items,key = lambda x:sum(x[1]))
can't itemgetter be used here?

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Re: Which XML?

[kyosohma]

On Jun 24, 7:04 pm, Bruno Barberi Gnecco
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I've found a lot of XML libraries for Python. Any advices on which
> one to use (or *not* to use)? My requirements are: support for XPath,
> stability (a must, segfaults are not an option), with DOM API and good
> performance desirable.
>
> Thanks for any advice.
>
> --
> Bruno Barberi Gnecco 

I use the minidom module for most of my XML work, but I don't think it
has much in the way of XPath. I think lxml might work better for that
sort of thing and I think it's part of ElementTree:

http://codespeak.net/lxml/dev/objectify.html

This guy kind of reviews the major XML modules:

http://www.oreillynet.com/onlamp/blog/2005/01/code_respecting_xpath_xml_pyth.html

Mike

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Re: The Modernization of Emacs: terminology buffer and keybinding

[JackT]

On Jun 25, 12:56 am, Cor Gest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Some entity, AKA JackT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote this mindboggling stuff:
> (selectively-snipped-or-not-p)

No need to be insulting.

>
> > We don't care about the 1970 version ofEmacs,
> > because of course back then there WAS NO GUI.
>
> But if you are blind as bat, any 2007's GUI is useless.
>

You may have missed part of the discussion.

Today's GNU emacs will still run with most of its features
(even keyboard-driven text-drawn menu) when you run
it on a GUI-less environment.

At the same time, today's GNU emacs, when run on a GUI,
will be able to pop up file-selection menus, display colors, etc. etc.

- JackT


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Re: Portable general timestamp format, not 2038-limited

[Robert Maas, see http://tinyurl.com/uh3t]

> From:  James Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> I have a requirement to store timestamps in a database. ...
> 1) subsecond resolution - milliseconds or, preferably, more detailed

How do you plan to deal with leap seconds?
- Stick to astronomical time, which is absolutely consistent but
   which drifts from legal time?
- Stick to legal time (UTC), which stalls by one second from time
   to time, causing time-difference calculations to be incorrect by
   varying numbers of seconds?
Only after you make *that* crucial decision, will it be reasonable
to consider milliseconds or other sub-second resolution.

As for the representation to store in the DB, somebody suggested
text, and I agree, with one clarification: Stick to US-ASCII, which
has been incorporated into UniCode hence is pretty much guaranteed
to be stable for longer than you care about.
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Re: how to sorted by summed itemgetter(x)

[Paul Rubin]

Aldarion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> how to sorted by summed itemgetter(1)?
> maybe sorted(items,key = lambda x:sum(x[1]))
> can't itemgetter be used here?

You really want function composition, e.g.

sorted(items, key=sum*itemgetter(1))

where * is a composition operator (doesn't exist in Python).

You could write:

   def compose(f,g):
  return lambda *a,**k: f(g(*a,**k))

and then use

   sorted(items, key=compose(sum,itemgetter(1)))

or spell it out inline:

   sorted(items, key=lambda x: sum(itemgetter(1)(x)))

I'd probably do something like:

   snd = itemgetter(1)# I use this all the time
   sorted(items, key=lambda x: sum(snd(x)))
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Re: something similar to shutil.copytree that can overwrite?

[Justin Ezequiel]

On Jun 22, 9:07 pm, Ben Sizer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> That's the easy bit to fix; what about overwriting existing files
> instead of copying them? Do I have to explicitly check for them and
> delete them? It seems like there are several different copy functions
> in the module and it's not clear what each of them do. What's the
> difference between copy, copyfile, and copy2? Why do the docs imply
> that they overwrite existing files when copytree skips existing
> files?
>
> --
> Ben Sizer

copytree does not skip existing files
if will overwrite said files
I just missed the makedirs call at the start
the failed makedirs call will cause the copytree function to exit
completely
thus you do not get your files updated
but with the if exists check, your files should get overwritten


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Re: The Modernization of Emacs: terminology buffer and keybinding

[Robert Uhl]

Twisted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> > Really? None of [navigating a folder window analogue] happens if
>> > you just do the straightforward file-open command, which should
>> > obviously at least provide a navigable directory tree, but
>> > definitely does not.
>>
>> The first does.  Really, it does.  Fire up emacs (which you've never
>> done before) and type C-x C-f.
>
> Whoa, Nellie. I seem to recall we were discussing the file-open
> command.  That was something else, like C-x C-o or something. More
> apples-and- oranges?

Fortunately, emacs has a facility to tell exactly what's bound to a key
sequence.  C-h k (or f1 k, if you prefer)followed by that sequence will
display what's bound to it, and the documentation for that function.

C-h k C-x C-o yields:

  C-x C-o runs the command delete-blank-lines

C-h k C-x o yields:

  C-x o runs the command other-window

C-h k C-x C-f yields:

  C-x C-f runs the command find-file

So you can see how cool emacs is, here's the entire output for C-x C-f,
demonstrating how the editor documents itself:

  C-x C-f runs the command find-file
which is an interactive compiled Lisp function in `files.el'.
  It is bound to , C-x C-f,   .
  (find-file filename &optional wildcards)
  
  Edit file filename.
  Switch to a buffer visiting file filename,
  creating one if none already exists.
  Interactively, the default if you just type RET is the current directory,
  but the visited file name is available through the minibuffer history:
  type M-n to pull it into the minibuffer.
  
  Interactively, or if wildcards is non-nil in a call from Lisp,
  expand wildcards (if any) and visit multiple files.  You can
  suppress wildcard expansion by setting `find-file-wildcards' to nil.
  
  To visit a file without any kind of conversion and without
  automatically choosing a major mode, use M-x find-file-literally.

>> You will be presented with a prompt
>> something like 'Find file: ~/'; hit tab once; you'll see the message
>> '[Complete, but not unique]'; hit tab again and you will be presented a
>> list of all files in that directory.
>
> Sounds clunky anyway. I don't need a bunch of keypresses to do the
> equivalent in an Explorer-based file-open dialog in a native Windows
> app. Just a double-click.

Generally, you need to scroll, too, as the Windows file widget doesn't
display a lot of files at once.

> Of course, there's an even faster Windows way, if you don't mind not
> seeing lists of possible items:
> Alt, f, o
> Startofname-down-/-Subd-down-/

How is this different from C-x C-f Startofname-tab-Subd-tab?  Except
emacs saves you type slashes...

>> If you like 'em, though, just select File:Visit New File.  It gives
>> you a platform-default (gtk+, for me) file selector.
>
> Now we're talking about a graphical port instead of stock emacs
> again. :P

That _is_ stock emacs, I assure you.

>> Fortunately, folks brighter than you & I have imagined a nice way for
>> us.  It pops up a new Emacs window (pane, if you prefer the
>> terminology) showing a list of all filenames.  You could continue
>> typing, or just click on a filename in the window, or hit return
>> while the cursor is on a filename in that window.
>
> Back to discussing a graphical port again.

It's not a port--it's emacs.  And save for the click all of the above
works in both a GUI and a console.  It's nice working the same way in
multiple places.

> Besides the apples and oranges issue, this amounts to implementing a
> dodgy imitation of a file open dialog anyway.  Why bother with such an
> imitation when you can use a natively-GUI editor written for your
> platform and get access to the real thing?

Because it's nice having the same interface no matter what.  Because
GUIs come and GUIs go (remember CDE?  OpenView?), but emacs will always
be there.  Because it's nice being able to fire up emacs and not care
what platform one is running on.

-- 
Robert Uhl 
prepBut nI vrbLike adjHungarian! qWhat's artThe adjBig nProblem?
  -- Alec Flett
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Re: The Modernization of Emacs: terminology buffer and keybinding

[Robert Uhl]

Twisted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> I have two frames open right now: one 80x70, the other around 180x70
>> (characters, not pixels).  One isn't split at all; the other is split
>> into four windows, horizontally and vertically.
>
> Then you're obviously not using the One True Emacs I am criticizing,
> which is a console app.

No, the One True Emacs supports GUIs.  It has since 1991.  Take a look
at .

>> emacs has continued doing its own thing, mostly because that thing is
>> better.  The CUA standards (there exists an emacs package if you
>> really want them) are broken and lame--I and most other don't wish to
>> cripple our text editor of choice.
>
> "CUA standards"? I'm sorry, I don't speak Botswanan. If you mean
> Windows standards like for cut, copy, and paste, "broken and lame" is
> obviously in the eye in the beholder, and something 97% of computer
> users are used to is the defacto standard, so it's the other 3% that
> are "broken and lame". ;)

Popularity is no measure of goofness.

> No, we're discussing ... oh, nevermind. It looks like there are
> several utterly different pieces of software that have one thing in
> common - the name "emacs".

That is actually true.  There's GNU emacs (the original and still the
best).  There's XEmacs (a fork of the same).  Then there are a myriad of
ancient emacsen, most particularly Gosling emacs.

However, the only two which matter are GNU emacs and XEmacs.  Both have
supported a GUI for 16 years now.  I don't have XEmacs installed, so I
cannot tell you if it has the tutorial.  I would be truly surprised if
it didn't.

>> Neither is right nor wrong; you're just used to one.  The emacs keys are
>> certainly more flexible and powerful, though.  Some might consider them
>> right for that reason.

[snip]

> This is also a change from your earlier position that they were, and I
> quote, "broken and lame", assuming you mean the same stock Windoze
> keybindings you meant with the cryptic term "CUA standards".

Not really--they're broken and lame because they are less flexible and
powerful.

How 'bout you actually try using a modern emacs?  It'll even support
your chosen operating system.

-- 
Robert Uhl 
Better to teach a man to fish than to give him a fish.  And if he can't
be bothered to learn to fish and starves to death, that's a good enough
outcome for me. --Steve VanDevender, 1 May 2000
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Help needed to solve this "NameError"

[senthil arasu]

Hi,
Iam new tp python programming.

Iam getting compiler error  when declaring frame instance as local variable.
please find the code


from Tkinter import *

class App:
   def __init__(self, master):
   *frame = Frame(master)
*  frame.pack()
   self.button = Button(frame, text="QUIT", fg="red", command=frame.quit)
self.button.pack(side=LEFT)
   self.hi_there = Button(frame, text="Hello", command=self.say_hi)
   self.hi_there.pack(side=LEFT)

def say_hi(self):
   print "hi there, everyone!"
root = Tk()
app = App(root)
root.mainloop()

once compiling iam getting the error

Traceback (most recent call last):
 File "C:\chk.py", line 20, in 
**frame.pack()
*NameError: name 'frame' is not defined
*

thanks
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Re: Python's "only one way to do it" philosophy isn't good?

[Graham Breed]

Steven D'Aprano wote:

> But if you really want declarations, you can have them.
>
> >>> import variables
> >>> variables.declare(x=1, y=2.5, z=[1, 2, 4])
> >>> variables.x = None
> >>> variables.w = 0
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "", line 1, in 
>   File "variables.py", line 15, in __setattr__
> raise self.DeclarationError("Variable '%s' not declared" % name)
> variables.DeclarationError: Variable 'w' not declared

Another way is to decorate functions with their local variables:

>>> from strict import my
>>> @my("item")
... def f(x=1, y=2.5, z=[1,2,4]):
... x = float(x)
... w = float(y)
... return [item+x-y for item in z]
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 2, in 
  File "strict.py", line 11, in dec
raise DeclarationError("No slot for %s"%varname)
strict.DeclarationError: No slot for w

and the implementation

import re

class DeclarationError(TypeError): pass

def my(slots=""):
tokens = slots.split()
def dec(func):
code = func.func_code
for varname in code.co_varnames[code.co_argcount:]:
if re.match('\w+$', varname) and varname not in tokens:
raise DeclarationError("No slot for %s"%varname)
return func
return dec


The best way to catch false rebindings is to stick a comment with the
word "rebound" after every statement where you think you're rebinding
a variable.  Then you can search your code for cases where there's a
"rebound" comment but no rebinding.  Assuming you're the kind of
person who knows that false rebindings can lead to perplexing bugs,
but doesn't check apparent rebindings in a paranoid way every time a
perplexing bug comes up, anyway.  (They aren't that common in modern
python code, after all.)  And that you remembered to add the comments
(like you would have remembered the let and set).  And you're also the
kind of person who's troubled by perplexing bugs but doesn't run a
fully fledged lint.  Maybe that's the kind of person who wouldn't put
up with anything short of a macro as in the original proposal.  All I
know is that it's the kind of person I don't want to second guess.


   Graham

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Re: Help needed to solve this "NameError"

[Gabriel Genellina]

En Sun, 24 Jun 2007 23:17:25 -0300, senthil arasu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
escribió:

> Hi,
> Iam new tp python programming.
>
> Iam getting compiler error  when declaring frame instance as local  
> variable.
> please find the code

In Python, indentation (number of spaces at start of lines) is important.  
Verify your code against the original source (book, tutorial, wherever you  
got it).
Both "def" lines should be indented 1 level (let's say, 4 spaces). All  
lines between those two, should be indented 2 levels (8 spaces), same  
indentation for the "hi there!" line. All other lines should be at the  
left margin.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina

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Re: Inferring initial locals()

[Scott David Daniels]

George Sakkis wrote:
> On Jun 21, 4:42 pm, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On Jun 21, 8:51 pm, George Sakkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>> I wonder if there is a (preferably not too-hackish) solution to the
>>> following introspection problem: given a callable and a number of
>>> positional and/or keyword arguments, infer what would be the frame's
>>> locals() right after the function is called
> 
> Turns out it wasn't that hard after all; I came up with the following:
> 

So, what should your code do about this:

def someFunction(a, b, c=43, d=14, f=12):
 print locals()

import functools

a_funct = functools.partial(someFunction, d=13, c=5)
b_funct = functools.partial(a_funct, 14, d=12)
localsProber(b_funct)

My point is simply:
Introspection code is often written with a fixed idea of what other
programmers write.  The others don't use introspection, the others
don't use higher order functions to build functions, 

--Scott David Daniels
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: try/except with multiple files

[Scott David Daniels]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Jun 21, 9:00 pm, Robert Hicks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Is it good practice to do something like:
>>
>> try:
>> f1 = file('file1')
>> f2 = file('file2')
>> except:
>> # catch the exception
> 
> If what you want is to make sure that resources will be released, you
> can use a try/finally block or (Python 2.5) a with block.

You could do something like this:

 files = []
 try:
 for name in ['abc.txt', 'def.txt', 'ghi.txt']:
 files.append(open(name))
 a, b, c = files
 
 finally:
 while files:
files.pop().close()

--Scott David Daniels
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: The Modernization of Emacs: terminology buffer and keybinding

[Rustom Mody]

Hi folks!

Dont want to spoil the fun of a real flame war here but what I want to
ask is directly relevant to emacs in python [And the answers may even
add some light to the current heat :-)  ]

I will be training a bunch of kids for using python in a data-center
linux-sysadmin context.

I intend to use emacs [apologies twisted  -- cant change my
anti-rodent preferences after 20 years ] but not clear what are the
best setups.

My questions are

1. Which python mode should one use?  It seems there is one from
python and one from emacs and both are deliberately named so as to be
confusable!! I would like one that gives...

2. Good support for debugging: I hear pdbtrack is better than pdb --
but I am not able to figure how to use it.

3. Is it possible to get brief help on methods/functions using
mouse-hovering/F1 rather than having to go out to pydoc etc

4. Also maybe a (minor?) mode to convert selections of interpreter
text into doctests?

5. The menu contains something called IM-python but that contains
nothing except *rescan*

6. Turning off semantic. semantic (is that the same as fly-make??)
seems to randomly get into 99% CPU usage.  How to turn it off?
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Re: how to sorted by summed itemgetter(x)

[Aldarion]

Thanks for the reply,I got it.
On 6 25 ,   9 19 , Paul Rubin  wrote:
> Aldarion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > how to sorted by summed itemgetter(1)?
> > maybe sorted(items,key = lambda x:sum(x[1]))
> > can't itemgetter be used here?
>
> You really want function composition, e.g.
>
> sorted(items, key=sum*itemgetter(1))
>
> where * is a composition operator (doesn't exist in Python).
>
> You could write:
>
>def compose(f,g):
>   return lambda *a,**k: f(g(*a,**k))
>
> and then use
>
>sorted(items, key=compose(sum,itemgetter(1)))
>
> or spell it out inline:
>
>sorted(items, key=lambda x: sum(itemgetter(1)(x)))
>
> I'd probably do something like:
>
>snd = itemgetter(1)# I use this all the time
>sorted(items, key=lambda x: sum(snd(x)))


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Python-based event calendar?

[Michael Hannon]

Greetings.  One of the research groups here has been using a PHP
application on one of their own computers to publish their list of
seminars:

http://www.k5n.us/webcalendar.php

They're now asking us to support this on our department web server (the
guy that set it up is leaving the group).

I've looked at the product, and it seems to work well enough, but I'd
prefer to have something equivalent that was based on Python.

I have the impression that there is something similar available for
Zope/Plone, but that seems too big a hammer for this particular problem.
Is there some other Python-based event calendar that doesn't require
such a heavy-weight framework?

Thanks.

- Mike
--
Michael Hannonmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dept. of Physics  530.752.4966
University of California  530.752.4717 FAX
Davis, CA 95616-8677
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Identifying button pressed

[Satyajeet Singh]

Hi All,
Am a newbie to GUI in python and is currently working on building a
calculator with the help of python and glade. Now I want that the function
which handles the pressing event of a numeric key is same for all the 10
buttons(0 to 9). But unfortunately I dont know how to recognize the button
pressed so that I can get its label by get_label method and can do the work
pretty easily. Even if you have a different approach idea please do tell me.

Thanks in advance.

--
Satyajeet Singh
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regular expressions eliminating filenames of type foo.thumbnail.jpg

[oscartheduck]

Hi folks,

I'm trying to alter a program I posted about a few days ago. It
creates thumbnail images from master images. Nice and simple.

To make sure I can match all variations in spelling of jpeg, and
different cases, I'm using regular expressions.


The code is currently:

-

#!/usr/bin/env python
from PIL import Image
import glob, os, re

size = 128, 128

def thumbnailer(dir, filenameRx):
 for picture in [ p for p in os.listdir(dir) if
os.path.isfile(os.path.join(
dir,p)) and filenameRx.match(p) ]:
 file, ext = os.path.splitext(picture)
 im = Image.open (picture)
 im.thumbnail(size, Image.ANTIALIAS)
 im.save(file + ".thumbnail" + ext)

jpg = re.compile(".*\.(jpg|jpeg)", re.IGNORECASE)
thumbnailer(".", jpg)

-

The problem is this. This code outputs foo.thumbnail.jpg when ran, and
when ran again it creates foo.thumbnail.thumbnail.jpg and so on,
filling a directory.

The obvious solution is to filter out any name that contains the term
"thumbnail", which I can once again do with a regular expression. My
problem is the construction of this expression.

The relevant page in the tutorial docs is: 
http://docs.python.org/lib/re-syntax.html

It lists (?>> m = re.search('(?http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: regular expressions eliminating filenames of type foo.thumbnail.jpg

[Justin Ezequiel]

Why not ditch regular expressions altogether for this problem?

[ p for p in os.listdir(dir)
  if os.path.isfile(os.path.join(dir,p))
  and p.lower().find('.thumbnail.')==-1 ]

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Re: Inferring initial locals()

[George Sakkis]

On Jun 24, 10:52 pm, Scott David Daniels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> So, what should your code do about this:
>
> def someFunction(a, b, c=43, d=14, f=12):
>  print locals()
>
> import functools
>
> a_funct = functools.partial(someFunction, d=13, c=5)
> b_funct = functools.partial(a_funct, 14, d=12)
> localsProber(b_funct)

Didn't get too far :)

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "locprobe.py", line 54, in 
localsProber(b_funct)
  File "locprobe.py", line 9, in localsProber
args, varargs, varkw, defaults = inspect.getargspec(callable)
  File "C:\Python25\lib\inspect.py", line 728, in getargspec
raise TypeError('arg is not a Python function')
TypeError: arg is not a Python function


> My point is simply:
> Introspection code is often written with a fixed idea of what other
> programmers write.  The others don't use introspection, the others
> don't use higher order functions to build functions, 

Fair enough, especially since not even the standard inspect module
handles functools.partial objects. Perhaps things will improve after
2.6 with PEP 362 (Function Signature Object) in place.

What you claim about introspection code though I think holds for code
in general. There are quite often edge cases which the programmer
doesn't anticipate or care to handle. A tool that covers X% of real-
world use cases for some large X and documents the known limitations
for the rest 100-X is fine with me (e.g. the current lambda).

George

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Re: is this a valid import sequence ?

[Michele Simionato]

On Jun 24, 1:29 pm, Steven D'Aprano
> I would like to hear your opinion of whether the
> following two functions are equally as wrong:
>
> def f1(gizmo):
> global spam # holds the frommet needed for the gizmo
> gizmo.get_frommet(spam)
>
> def f2(gizmo):
> # global spam holds the frommet needed for the gizmo
> gizmo.get_frommet(spam)
>
> I'm sure they're both wrong, but I'd like to know if there are degrees of
> wrongness.

I am not Alex Martelli, but I will tell you my opinion anyway.
To me f2 is not wrong: at worse you can say that the comment
is redundant since it is already clear from the code that
spam is a global, but it is not a big deal. As a code
reviewer I would not have had issues with f2. OTOH I would
have had serious issues with f1. Since the global
statement in correct Python  code is solely used to declare
that a global variable is being set in an inner scope, I
would have to guess that:

1. function f1 wrong; maybe the author cut and pasted it
   from someplace, forgetting the line where the global
   variable spam was set;

2. maybe f1 is right, but then the author forgot to remove
   the global declaration after the cut & paste;

3. the author does not know Python, and he believes that he
   has to use global to denote the fact that the method
   gizmo.get_frommet(spam) is setting a global variable.

So I would have had to look at get_frommet to see that actually
'spam' is not set there, and finally I would have reached the
conclusion that

4. the author was completely wrong and used global without
   knowing its meaning.

All that analysis would have cost me some time, potentially
a lot of time depending on the complexity of the code, and
all that time would have been wasted time.
So f1 is misleading code, and I consider misleading code
actually *worse* than wrong code, since it makes you waste
your time without a good reason.


Michele Simionato

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Re: regular expressions eliminating filenames of type foo.thumbnail.jpg

[Justin Ezequiel]

On Jun 25, 1:00 pm, Justin Ezequiel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> [ p for p in os.listdir(dir)
>   if os.path.isfile(os.path.join(dir,p))
>   and p.lower().find('.thumbnail.')==-1 ]

if you really want a regexp solution, the following seems to work
(?i)(?http://kodos.sourceforge.net/)

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socket on cygwin python

[bacon . chao]

I've installed cygwin with latest python 2.5.1, but it seems that the
socket lib file do NOT support IPv6(cygwin\lib\python2.5\lib-dynload
\_socket.dll), what can I do if I want to use IPv6?
Thanks

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Re: Python's "only one way to do it" philosophy isn't good?

[Douglas Alan]

Graham Breed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Another way is to decorate functions with their local variables:

 from strict import my
 @my("item")
> ... def f(x=1, y=2.5, z=[1,2,4]):
> ... x = float(x)
> ... w = float(y)
> ... return [item+x-y for item in z]

Well, I suppose that's a bit better than the previous suggestion, but
(1) it breaks the style rule of not declaring variables until you need
them, and (2) it doesn't catch double initialization.

> The best way to catch false rebindings is to stick a comment with
> the word "rebound" after every statement where you think you're
> rebinding a variable.

No, the best way to catch false rebindings is to have the computers
catch such errors for you.  That's what you pay them for.

> Then you can search your code for cases where there's a "rebound"
> comment but no rebinding.

And how do I easily do that?  And how do I know if I even need to in
the face of sometimes subtle bugs?

> Assuming you're the kind of person who knows that false rebindings
> can lead to perplexing bugs, but doesn't check apparent rebindings
> in a paranoid way every time a perplexing bug comes up, anyway.
> (They aren't that common in modern python code, after all.)

They're not that uncommon, either.

I've certainly had it happen to me on several occasions, and sometimes
they've been hard to find as I might not even see the mispeling even
if I read the code 20 times.

(Like the time I spent all day trying to figure out why my assembly
code wasn't working when I was a student and finally I decided to ask
the TA for help, and while talking him through my code so that he
could tell me what I was doing wrong, I finally noticed the "rO" where
there was supposed to be an "r0".  It's amazing how useful a TA can
be, while doing nothing at all!)

> And you're also the kind of person who's troubled by perplexing bugs
> but doesn't run a fully fledged lint.

Maybe PyLint is better than Lint for C was (hated it!), but my idea of
RAD does not include wading through piles of useless warning messages
looking for the needle warning in the warning haystack.  Or running
any other programs in the midst of my code, run, code, run, ..., loop.

> Maybe that's the kind of person who wouldn't put up with anything
> short of a macro as in the original proposal.  All I know is that
> it's the kind of person I don't want to second guess.

As it is, I code in Python the way that a normal Python programmer
would, and when I have a bug, I track it down through sometimes
painstaking debugging as a normal Python programmer would.  Just as
any other normal Python programmer, I would not use the alternatives
suggested so far, as I'd find them cumbersome and inelegant.  I'd
prefer not to have been bit by the bugs to begin with.  Consequently,
I'd use let and set statements, if they were provided (or if I could
implement them), just as I have the equivalents to let and set in
every other programming language that I commonly program in other than
Python.

|>oug
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Chroot Jail Not Secure for Sandboxing Python?

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

This wiki page suggests using a chroot jail to sandbox Python, but
wouldn't running something like this in your sandboxed Python instance
still break you out of the chroot jail:

 os.execle ('/usr/bin/python','-c','import os; os.execlp("/bin/sh")',
{})

or maybe:

 del os.environ['LD_PRELOAD']
 os.execl ('/usr/bin/python','-c','import os; os.execlp("/bin/sh")')

My ISP suggested these as counter-examples to my request for a chroot
jail.  (I couldn't even get Python running in chroot to test this, nor
could I run these commands locally in Python on Ubuntu, though maybe
they opened sh?)

So is a chroot jail not adequate for sandboxing Python?

-Greg

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Re: socket on cygwin python

[Martin v. Löwis]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
> I've installed cygwin with latest python 2.5.1, but it seems that the
> socket lib file do NOT support IPv6(cygwin\lib\python2.5\lib-dynload
> \_socket.dll), what can I do if I want to use IPv6?

Use the Python binaries from python.org. If that is not acceptable,
recompile Python for Cygwin to use WinSock2.

Regards,
Martin
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Re: Python's "only one way to do it" philosophy isn't good?

[Michele Simionato]

On Jun 23, 6:39 pm, Douglas Alan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> One of the things that annoys me when coding in Python (and this is a
> flaw that even lowly Perl has a good solution for), is that if you do
> something like
>
>  longVarableName = foo(longVariableName)
>
> You end up with a bug that can be very hard to track down.

You should really be using pychecker (as well as Emacs autocompletion
feature ...):

~$ cat x.py
def foo(x): return x

longVariableName = 1
longVarableName = foo(longVariableName)

~$ pychecker -v x.py
Processing x...

Warnings...

x.py:4: Variable (longVarableName) not used

[I know you will not be satisfied with this, but pychecker is really
useful,
since it catches many other errors that no amount of macroprogramming
would
evere remove].

   Michele Simionato

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Re: Chroot Jail Not Secure for Sandboxing Python?

[Martin v. Löwis]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
> This wiki page suggests using a chroot jail to sandbox Python, but
> wouldn't running something like this in your sandboxed Python instance
> still break you out of the chroot jail:
> 
>  os.execle ('/usr/bin/python','-c','import os; os.execlp("/bin/sh")',
> {})

Depending on how the chroot jail is set up, this command might not
work - in the jail, /bin/sh might not exist.

> or maybe:
> 
>  del os.environ['LD_PRELOAD']
>  os.execl ('/usr/bin/python','-c','import os; os.execlp("/bin/sh")')

How could deleting LD_PRELOAD help? chroot is not a library trick.
It's a mechanism implemented in the operating system.

> So is a chroot jail not adequate for sandboxing Python?

You have to define your threat model. If the threat to prevent is
a malicious user getting at your data, or spreading a virus
through your files, then chroot is perfectly adequate.

Regards,
Martin
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Re: regular expressions eliminating filenames of type foo.thumbnail.jpg

[half . italian]

On Jun 24, 10:00 pm, Justin Ezequiel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Why not ditch regular expressions altogether for this problem?
>
> [ p for p in os.listdir(dir)
>   if os.path.isfile(os.path.join(dir,p))
>   and p.lower().find('.thumbnail.')==-1 ]

I like `and '.thumbnail.' not in p]` as a better ending. :)

~Sean

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Re: Chroot Jail Not Secure for Sandboxing Python?

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

On Jun 25, 1:21 am, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> This wiki page suggests using a chroot jail to sandbox Python, but
> wouldn't running something like this in your sandboxed Python instance
> still break you out of the chroot jail:
>
>  os.execle ('/usr/bin/python','-c','import os; os.execlp("/bin/sh")',
> {})
>
> or maybe:
>
>  del os.environ['LD_PRELOAD']
>  os.execl ('/usr/bin/python','-c','import os; os.execlp("/bin/sh")')
>
> My ISP suggested these as counter-examples to my request for a chroot
> jail.  (I couldn't even get Python running in chroot to test this, nor
> could I run these commands locally in Python on Ubuntu, though maybe
> they opened sh?)
>
> So is a chroot jail not adequate for sandboxing Python?
>
> -Greg


Edit: Google groups stripped out the URL.  It's
http://wiki.python.org/moin/How_can_I_run_an_untrusted_Python_script_safely_(i.e._Sandbox)
(or the page titled this on the Python wiki if it strips out the url
above again)
"How can I run an untrusted Python script safely (i.e. Sandbox)"

-Greg

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Re: Python's "only one way to do it" philosophy isn't good?

[Douglas Alan]

Michele Simionato <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> You should really be using pychecker (as well as Emacs autocompletion
> feature ...):

I *do* use Emacs's autocompletion, but sometimes these sorts of bugs
creep in anyway.  (E.g., sometimes I autocomplete in the wrong variable!)

> ~$ pychecker -v x.py
> Processing x...
>
> Warnings...
>
> x.py:4: Variable (longVarableName) not used
>
> [I know you will not be satisfied with this, but pychecker is really
> useful,

Okay, I'll check out PyChecker and PyLint, though I'm sure they will
annoy the hell out of me.  They're probably less annoying than
spending all day tracking down some stupid bug.

> since it catches many other errors that no amount of
> macroprogramming would evere remove].

And likewise, good macro programming can solve some problems that no
amount of linting could ever solve.

|>oug
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Re: socket on cygwin python

[bacon . chao]

On Jun 25, 1:26 pm, "Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
>
> > I've installed cygwin with latest python 2.5.1, but it seems that the
> > socket lib file do NOT support IPv6(cygwin\lib\python2.5\lib-dynload
> > \_socket.dll), what can I do if I want to use IPv6?
>
> Use the Python binaries from python.org. If that is not acceptable,
> recompile Python for Cygwin to use WinSock2.
>
> Regards,
> Martin

Thanks Martin.

But no VC/C++ tool installed on my PC, and I think recompile this file
it seems necessary. :(
So I tried to find a binary files on Python.org, but I can't find it.
Could you tell me the binary location for the file? Thank you.

BestRegards
Ming

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Re: Python's "only one way to do it" philosophy isn't good?

[Paul Rubin]

Douglas Alan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> And likewise, good macro programming can solve some problems that no
> amount of linting could ever solve.

I think Lisp is more needful of macros than other languages, because
its underlying primitives are too, well, primitive.  You have to write
all the abstractions yourself.  Python has built-in abstractions for a
few container types like lists and dicts, and now a new and more
general one (iterators), so it's the next level up.  Haskell abstracts
the concept of containers to something called monads, so operations
like loops and list comprehensions fall out automatically (it took me
a while to realize that--Haskell listcomps weren't a bright new idea
someone thought of adding to an otherwise complete language: they were
already inherently present in the list monad operations and their
current syntax is just minor sugaring and is actually restricted on
purpose to make the error messages less confusing).

So, a bunch of stuff one needs macros to do conveniently in Lisp, can
be done with Python's built-in syntax.  And a bunch of stuff that
Python could use macros for, are easily done in Haskell using delayed
evaluation and monads.  And Haskell is starting to grow its own macro
system (templates) but that's probably a sign that an even higher
level language (maybe with dependent types or something) would make
the templates unnecessary.
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Re: Chroot Jail Not Secure for Sandboxing Python?

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

On Jun 25, 1:43 am, "Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
>
> > This wiki page suggests using a chroot jail to sandbox Python, but
> > wouldn't running something like this in your sandboxed Python instance
> > still break you out of the chroot jail:
>
> >  os.execle ('/usr/bin/python','-c','import os; os.execlp("/bin/sh")',
> > {})
>
> Depending on how the chroot jail is set up, this command might not
> work - in the jail, /bin/sh might not exist.

This was my thought too.  I just figured there was something special
about this command that brought one to the "real" Python intrepreter
and then to the real "/bin/sh".  That's odd, my ISP seem adament that
this is a way to break out.  I'll just have to put in the work to test
to locally I guess.

> > So is a chroot jail not adequate for sandboxing Python?
>
> You have to define your threat model. If the threat to prevent is
> a malicious user getting at your data, or spreading a virus
> through your files, then chroot is perfectly adequate.

Yeah, sounds like my threat model.  Maybe prevent someone sending
spam, or DOS from my server too.

-Greg



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Re: subprocess.popen question

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

On Jun 23, 6:46 am, SPE - Stani's Python Editor
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Jun 23, 5:35 am, "Gabriel Genellina" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > En Fri, 22 Jun 2007 10:08:49 -0300, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió:
>
> > > I seemed to have it working sorta when I run it and save the results I
> > > am noticing that inspeit spaces correctly but when I save it to a
> > > file I can open it in wordpad there is only one line.  when I open in
> > > up in WinXound (Acsoundeditor) it is double spaced.  if I do it in a
> > > batch file the output file is spaced correctly..  when I do splitlines
> > > it is giving me one charecter down the page as output..  Do I need to
> > > do something or can I do something to put an end of line charecter in
> > > the output??
>
> > Try
>
> > print repr(your_data)
>
> > to see exactly what you got.
>
> > --
> > Gabriel Genellina
>
> Did you take in account that line endings on Windows are '\r\n' and
> not '\n'?
>
> Stani
> --http://pythonide.stani.be- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

evedently when they converted awk from unix to windows (gawk) they
left the formating the same..  python is working corectly then.  gawk
seems to return the original line and then the changed line unless I
redirect it to a file  Thanks for the help, at this point it is up
to me to go through the different versions of awk to find out how they
work with the data...  (awke, gawk, mawk, nawk.. exc..)

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