Re: [Python-ideas] JavaScript-Style Object Creation in Python (using a constructor function instead of a class to create objects)
On 15 May 2017 at 18:22, Guido van Rossum wrote: > I expect that we will need someone with a really good sensibility for > Pythonic language/API design to lead the PEP writing. > I probably don't have good sensibility for Pythonic API design yet (and I am more focused on PEP 544) so I cannot lead this, but I would like to actively participate in writing. -- Ivan ___ Python-ideas mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [Python-ideas] JavaScript-Style Object Creation in Python (using a constructor function instead of a class to create objects)
I could also try this myself in my spare time at PyCon (surprisingly, I have some!). It sounds kind of interesting. However I've never used the 'attrs' package... On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 7:52 AM, Ivan Levkivskyi wrote: > On 15 May 2017 at 18:22, Guido van Rossum wrote: > >> I expect that we will need someone with a really good sensibility for >> Pythonic language/API design to lead the PEP writing. >> > > I probably don't have good sensibility for Pythonic API design yet (and I > am more focused on PEP 544) so I cannot lead this, > but I would like to actively participate in writing. > > -- > Ivan > > > -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) ___ Python-ideas mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [Python-ideas] JavaScript-Style Object Creation in Python (using a constructor function instead of a class to create objects)
I wouldn't mind discussing it at PyCon. I'm just starting a project to switch to attrs, and I'm reasonably familiar with it. -- Eric. > On May 16, 2017, at 10:53 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote: > > I could also try this myself in my spare time at PyCon (surprisingly, I have > some!). It sounds kind of interesting. However I've never used the 'attrs' > package... > >> On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 7:52 AM, Ivan Levkivskyi >> wrote: >>> On 15 May 2017 at 18:22, Guido van Rossum wrote: >>> I expect that we will need someone with a really good sensibility for >>> Pythonic language/API design to lead the PEP writing. >> >> I probably don't have good sensibility for Pythonic API design yet (and I am >> more focused on PEP 544) so I cannot lead this, >> but I would like to actively participate in writing. >> >> -- >> Ivan >> >> > > > > -- > --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) > ___ > Python-ideas mailing list > [email protected] > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas > Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ ___ Python-ideas mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [Python-ideas] JavaScript-Style Object Creation in Python (using a constructor function instead of a class to create objects)
On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 12:53 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote: > I could also try this myself in my spare time at PyCon (surprisingly, I have > some!). It sounds kind of interesting. However I've never used the 'attrs' > package... Me neither, so I'm not really an ideal person to head this up. Is there anyone who (a) knows what is and isn't Pythonic, (b) has used 'attrs', and (c) has spare time? It's not an easy trifecta but we can hope! ChrisA ___ Python-ideas mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [Python-ideas] JavaScript-Style Object Creation in Python (using a constructor function instead of a class to create objects)
Maybe Lukasz is interested? On May 16, 2017 8:00 AM, "Chris Angelico" wrote: > On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 12:53 AM, Guido van Rossum > wrote: > > I could also try this myself in my spare time at PyCon (surprisingly, I > have > > some!). It sounds kind of interesting. However I've never used the > 'attrs' > > package... > > Me neither, so I'm not really an ideal person to head this up. Is > there anyone who (a) knows what is and isn't Pythonic, (b) has used > 'attrs', and (c) has spare time? It's not an easy trifecta but we can > hope! > > ChrisA > ___ > Python-ideas mailing list > [email protected] > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas > Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ > ___ Python-ideas mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [Python-ideas] Python-ideas Digest, Vol 126, Issue 35
I have it on good authority both Hynek (the author of attrs) and Glyph will be attending PyCon. I think it'd be a shame if they weren't involved with this effort somehow. > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 07:53:50 -0700 > From: Guido van Rossum > To: Ivan Levkivskyi > Cc: ? , "[email protected]" > > Subject: Re: [Python-ideas] JavaScript-Style Object Creation in Python > (using a constructor function instead of a class to create objects) > Message-ID: > [email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > I could also try this myself in my spare time at PyCon (surprisingly, I > have some!). It sounds kind of interesting. However I've never used the > 'attrs' package... > > On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 7:52 AM, Ivan Levkivskyi > wrote: > > > On 15 May 2017 at 18:22, Guido van Rossum wrote: > > > >> I expect that we will need someone with a really good sensibility for > >> Pythonic language/API design to lead the PEP writing. > >> > > > > I probably don't have good sensibility for Pythonic API design yet (and I > > am more focused on PEP 544) so I cannot lead this, > > but I would like to actively participate in writing. > > > > -- > > Ivan > > > > > > > > > -- > --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) > ___ Python-ideas mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [Python-ideas] Python-ideas Digest, Vol 126, Issue 35
I'm sure at least Hynek will be told about this so he can provide input based on his experience (but I also know my rough approximation of this idea somewhat horrified him so I don't know he supportive he will be either :) . On Tue, 16 May 2017 at 09:58 Tin Tvrtković wrote: > I have it on good authority both Hynek (the author of attrs) and Glyph > will be attending PyCon. I think it'd be a shame if they weren't involved > with this effort somehow. > > >> Message: 2 >> Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 07:53:50 -0700 >> From: Guido van Rossum >> To: Ivan Levkivskyi >> Cc: ? , "[email protected]" >> >> Subject: Re: [Python-ideas] JavaScript-Style Object Creation in Python >> (using a constructor function instead of a class to create >> objects) >> Message-ID: >> < >> cap7+vjjynk+mqtjfvxavxxo5qnbe2su0mrxhjzwepkmcd7h...@mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> I could also try this myself in my spare time at PyCon (surprisingly, I >> have some!). It sounds kind of interesting. However I've never used the >> 'attrs' package... >> >> On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 7:52 AM, Ivan Levkivskyi >> wrote: >> >> > On 15 May 2017 at 18:22, Guido van Rossum wrote: >> > >> >> I expect that we will need someone with a really good sensibility for >> >> Pythonic language/API design to lead the PEP writing. >> >> >> > >> > I probably don't have good sensibility for Pythonic API design yet (and >> I >> > am more focused on PEP 544) so I cannot lead this, >> > but I would like to actively participate in writing. >> > >> > -- >> > Ivan >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> -- >> --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) >> > > ___ > Python-ideas mailing list > [email protected] > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas > Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ > ___ Python-ideas mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [Python-ideas] JavaScript-Style Object Creation in Python (using a constructor function instead of a class to create objects)
Maybe we can bring this up as a lightning talk at the language summit to see who in the room has the appropriate background knowledge? And obviously someone can talk to Hynek to see if he wants to provide input based on community feedback for attrs and lessons learned. On Tue, 16 May 2017 at 08:11 Guido van Rossum wrote: > Maybe Lukasz is interested? > > On May 16, 2017 8:00 AM, "Chris Angelico" wrote: > >> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 12:53 AM, Guido van Rossum >> wrote: >> > I could also try this myself in my spare time at PyCon (surprisingly, I >> have >> > some!). It sounds kind of interesting. However I've never used the >> 'attrs' >> > package... >> >> Me neither, so I'm not really an ideal person to head this up. Is >> there anyone who (a) knows what is and isn't Pythonic, (b) has used >> 'attrs', and (c) has spare time? It's not an easy trifecta but we can >> hope! >> >> ChrisA >> ___ >> Python-ideas mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas >> Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ >> > ___ > Python-ideas mailing list > [email protected] > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas > Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ > ___ Python-ideas mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [Python-ideas] JavaScript-Style Object Creation in Python (using a constructor function instead of a class to create objects)
Hi all, Thanks to this thread I learned about the "attrs" library. I am a heavy namedtuple (ab)user but I think I will be using attrs going forward. If something like attrs would made it in the standard library it would be awesome. Thanks, Stephan 2017-05-16 20:08 GMT+02:00 Brett Cannon : > Maybe we can bring this up as a lightning talk at the language summit to see > who in the room has the appropriate background knowledge? And obviously > someone can talk to Hynek to see if he wants to provide input based on > community feedback for attrs and lessons learned. > > On Tue, 16 May 2017 at 08:11 Guido van Rossum wrote: >> >> Maybe Lukasz is interested? >> >> On May 16, 2017 8:00 AM, "Chris Angelico" wrote: >>> >>> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 12:53 AM, Guido van Rossum >>> wrote: >>> > I could also try this myself in my spare time at PyCon (surprisingly, I >>> > have >>> > some!). It sounds kind of interesting. However I've never used the >>> > 'attrs' >>> > package... >>> >>> Me neither, so I'm not really an ideal person to head this up. Is >>> there anyone who (a) knows what is and isn't Pythonic, (b) has used >>> 'attrs', and (c) has spare time? It's not an easy trifecta but we can >>> hope! >>> >>> ChrisA >>> ___ >>> Python-ideas mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas >>> Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ >> >> ___ >> Python-ideas mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas >> Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ > > > ___ > Python-ideas mailing list > [email protected] > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas > Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ > ___ Python-ideas mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [Python-ideas] JavaScript-Style Object Creation in Python (using a constructor function instead of a class to create objects)
Stephen, What features of attrs specifically solve your use cases? --Guido On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 12:18 PM, Stephan Houben wrote: > Hi all, > > Thanks to this thread I learned about the "attrs" library. I am a > heavy namedtuple (ab)user but I think > I will be using attrs going forward. > > If something like attrs would made it in the standard library it would > be awesome. > > Thanks, > > Stephan > > 2017-05-16 20:08 GMT+02:00 Brett Cannon : > > Maybe we can bring this up as a lightning talk at the language summit to > see > > who in the room has the appropriate background knowledge? And obviously > > someone can talk to Hynek to see if he wants to provide input based on > > community feedback for attrs and lessons learned. > > > > On Tue, 16 May 2017 at 08:11 Guido van Rossum > wrote: > >> > >> Maybe Lukasz is interested? > >> > >> On May 16, 2017 8:00 AM, "Chris Angelico" wrote: > >>> > >>> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 12:53 AM, Guido van Rossum > >>> wrote: > >>> > I could also try this myself in my spare time at PyCon > (surprisingly, I > >>> > have > >>> > some!). It sounds kind of interesting. However I've never used the > >>> > 'attrs' > >>> > package... > >>> > >>> Me neither, so I'm not really an ideal person to head this up. Is > >>> there anyone who (a) knows what is and isn't Pythonic, (b) has used > >>> 'attrs', and (c) has spare time? It's not an easy trifecta but we can > >>> hope! > >>> > >>> ChrisA > >>> ___ > >>> Python-ideas mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas > >>> Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ > >> > >> ___ > >> Python-ideas mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas > >> Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ > > > > > > ___ > > Python-ideas mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas > > Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ > > > -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) ___ Python-ideas mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-ideas] PEP 526: why ClassVar instead of ClassAttr?
Since PEP 526 is already provisionally accepted, it may be too late to bring this up, but I have a question and suggestion about the name ClassVar. I've read the PEP but didn't see an answer or rejection to this. https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0526/ Why choose ClassVar over ClassAttr when the usual terminology used in the Python community is class and instance *attributes* rather than "variables"? I understand that, in a sense, attributes are variables (unless they're constants *wink*) but the term "class variable" sounds very Java-esque rather than Pythonic. And it is an uncomfortable fit with a language like Python where classes are first class values like ints, strings, floats etc: - we talk about a string variable meaning a variable holding a string; - a float variable is a variable holding a float; - a list variable is a variable holding a list; - so a class variable ought to be a variable holding a class. I get the intention: we have local, global, instance and class variables. But I feel that grouping instance/class with local/global is too abstract and "computer sciencey": in practice, instance/class vars are used in ways which are different enough from global/local vars that they deserve a different name: attributes, members or properties are common choices. (Python of course uses attributes, and properties for a particular kind of computed attribute.) This introduces split terminology: we now talk about annotating class attributes with ClassVar. Since there's no GlobalVar, NonLocalVar or LocalVar, there doesn't seem to be any good reason to stick with the FooVar naming system. Can we change the annotation to ClassAttr instead? -- Steve ___ Python-ideas mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [Python-ideas] PEP 526: why ClassVar instead of ClassAttr?
It's "class variable" because we (at least I) also routinely use "instance variable". On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 4:23 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > Since PEP 526 is already provisionally accepted, it may be too late to > bring this up, but I have a question and suggestion about the name > ClassVar. I've read the PEP but didn't see an answer or rejection to > this. > > https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0526/ > > Why choose ClassVar over ClassAttr when the usual terminology used in > the Python community is class and instance *attributes* rather than > "variables"? > > I understand that, in a sense, attributes are variables (unless they're > constants *wink*) but the term "class variable" sounds very Java-esque > rather than Pythonic. And it is an uncomfortable fit with a language > like Python where classes are first class values like ints, strings, > floats etc: > > - we talk about a string variable meaning a variable holding a string; > - a float variable is a variable holding a float; > - a list variable is a variable holding a list; > - so a class variable ought to be a variable holding a class. > > I get the intention: we have local, global, instance and class > variables. But I feel that grouping instance/class with local/global is > too abstract and "computer sciencey": in practice, instance/class vars > are used in ways which are different enough from global/local vars that > they deserve a different name: attributes, members or properties are > common choices. > > (Python of course uses attributes, and properties for a particular kind > of computed attribute.) > > This introduces split terminology: we now talk about annotating class > attributes with ClassVar. Since there's no GlobalVar, NonLocalVar or > LocalVar, there doesn't seem to be any good reason to stick with the > FooVar naming system. > > Can we change the annotation to ClassAttr instead? > > > > -- > Steve > ___ > Python-ideas mailing list > [email protected] > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas > Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ > -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) ___ Python-ideas mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [Python-ideas] PEP 526: why ClassVar instead of ClassAttr?
On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 10:10 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: > It's "class variable" because we (at least I) also routinely use "instance > variable". It is `getattr()`, `setattr()`, and a very long etc. in Python. I agree with the OP that a sudden talk about "vars" is confusing, more so when Python doesn't have "vars", but "names" (etc.). Cheers! -- Juancarlo *Añez* ___ Python-ideas mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [Python-ideas] JavaScript-Style Object Creation in Python (using a constructor function instead of a class to create objects)
On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 5:04 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: What features of attrs specifically solve your use cases? > (not Stephen) I hadn’t thought about this use case: In [1]: class C(): ...: x = 1 ...: ...: def __init__(self, x=None): ...: if x is not None: ...: self.x = x ...: ...: def __str__(self): ...: return 'C(%s)' % self.x ...: In [2]: c1 = C() ...: c2 = C(2) ...: In [3]: print(c1, c2) C(1) C(2) And I might use it here on. What I like about attrs is: - The class level declaration of instance attributes - That the reasonable *init*, *repr*, and *eq* are generated I don’t like the excessive wordiness in attrs, and I don’t need “the kitchen sink” be available to have instance attributes declared at the class level. A solution based on the typing module would be much better. Basically, Python is lacking a way to declare instance fields with default values away of the initializer. Several of the mainstream OO languages (Java, Swift, Go) provide for that. I haven’t thought much about this, except about if there’s indeed a need (and there is), but I can’t know if the solution if through decorators, or inheritance. -- Juancarlo *Añez* ___ Python-ideas mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [Python-ideas] PEP 526: why ClassVar instead of ClassAttr?
There was another reason too. Many things are "class attributes" e.g. methods, descriptors. But only specific things are class *variables*. Trust me, we debated this when the PEP was drafted. ClassVar is better than ClassAttr. On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 7:54 PM, Juancarlo Añez wrote: > > On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 10:10 PM, Guido van Rossum > wrote: > >> It's "class variable" because we (at least I) also routinely use >> "instance variable". > > > It is `getattr()`, `setattr()`, and a very long etc. in Python. > > I agree with the OP that a sudden talk about "vars" is confusing, more so > when Python doesn't have "vars", but "names" (etc.). > > Cheers! > > > -- > Juancarlo *Añez* > -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) ___ Python-ideas mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [Python-ideas] JavaScript-Style Object Creation in Python (using a constructor function instead of a class to create objects)
On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 8:14 PM, Juancarlo Añez wrote:
> What I like about attrs is:
>
>- The class level declaration of instance attributes
>- That the reasonable *init*, *repr*, and *eq* are generated
>
> OK, the former should be doable using PEP 526 (the type is stored in
__annotations__ and the default in the class dict given to the metaclass),
while the latter should be doable using a standard metaclass -- assuming we
can agree on what the "reasonable" __init__, __repr__ and __eq__ should do.
>
>
> I don’t like the excessive wordiness in attrs,
>
Really? @attr.s is wordy? :-) I think it's deadly cute. (The only library
I've ever seen that did something worse was "monocle" which used @_o.)
> and I don’t need “the kitchen sink” be available to have instance
> attributes declared at the class level. A solution based on the typing
> module would be much better.
>
That's what I am hoping, yes.
> Basically, Python is lacking a way to declare instance fields with default
> values away of the initializer. Several of the mainstream OO languages
> (Java, Swift, Go) provide for that.
>
Hm, there are some issues here of course -- while it's simple to set the
default to e.g. 0, (1, 2, 3) or '', it's not so easy to set a
default to [] or {'foo': 'bar'} unless you just state "do whatever
copy.copy() does".
> I haven’t thought much about this, except about if there’s indeed a need
> (and there is), but I can’t know if the solution if through decorators, or
> inheritance.
>
I suppose we could do it using either a class decorator or a metaclass --
we'll have to compare the pros and cons and specific use cases to choose.
(Example: https://github.com/python/typing/issues/427.)
--
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido )
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Re: [Python-ideas] JavaScript-Style Object Creation in Python (using a constructor function instead of a class to create objects)
Hi Guido, As mentioned I am a heavy user of namedtuple, I use it everywhere where constructor arguments are equal to instance variables. Which is quite often, at least in my programming style (possibly under the influence of ML's "datatype" and Scala's "case class"-es.) Compared to namedtuple, I see that attr solves a number of issues which sometimes prevented me from using namedtuple: 1. Allow hash and equality to be based on object identity, rather than structural identity, this is very important if one wants to store un-hashable objects in the instance. (In my case: mostly dict's and numpy arrays). 2. Not subclassed from tuple. I have been bitten by this subclassing when trying to set up singledispatch on sequences and also on my classes. 3. Easily allow to specify default values. With namedtuple this requires overriding __new__. 4. Easily allow to specify a conversion function. For example I have some code like below: note that I can store a numpy array while keeping hashability and I can make it convert to a numpy array in the constructor. @attr.s(cmp=False, hash=False) class SvgTransform(SvgPicture): child = attr.ib() matrix = attr.ib(convert=numpy.asarray) These are the main advantages I have encountered so far. Stephan 2017-05-16 23:04 GMT+02:00 Guido van Rossum : > Stephen, > > What features of attrs specifically solve your use cases? > > --Guido > > On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 12:18 PM, Stephan Houben > wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> Thanks to this thread I learned about the "attrs" library. I am a >> heavy namedtuple (ab)user but I think >> I will be using attrs going forward. >> >> If something like attrs would made it in the standard library it would >> be awesome. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Stephan >> >> 2017-05-16 20:08 GMT+02:00 Brett Cannon : >> > Maybe we can bring this up as a lightning talk at the language summit to >> > see >> > who in the room has the appropriate background knowledge? And obviously >> > someone can talk to Hynek to see if he wants to provide input based on >> > community feedback for attrs and lessons learned. >> > >> > On Tue, 16 May 2017 at 08:11 Guido van Rossum >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> Maybe Lukasz is interested? >> >> >> >> On May 16, 2017 8:00 AM, "Chris Angelico" wrote: >> >>> >> >>> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 12:53 AM, Guido van Rossum >> >>> wrote: >> >>> > I could also try this myself in my spare time at PyCon >> >>> > (surprisingly, I >> >>> > have >> >>> > some!). It sounds kind of interesting. However I've never used the >> >>> > 'attrs' >> >>> > package... >> >>> >> >>> Me neither, so I'm not really an ideal person to head this up. Is >> >>> there anyone who (a) knows what is and isn't Pythonic, (b) has used >> >>> 'attrs', and (c) has spare time? It's not an easy trifecta but we can >> >>> hope! >> >>> >> >>> ChrisA >> >>> ___ >> >>> Python-ideas mailing list >> >>> [email protected] >> >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas >> >>> Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ >> >> >> >> ___ >> >> Python-ideas mailing list >> >> [email protected] >> >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas >> >> Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ >> > >> > >> > ___ >> > Python-ideas mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas >> > Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ >> > > > > > > -- > --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) ___ Python-ideas mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
