Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 575: Unifying function/method classes

2018-04-16 Thread Jeroen Demeyer 

On 2018-04-16 02:32, Raymond Hettinger wrote:

I don't think that confidence is warranted.  The world of Python is very large. 
 When public APIs (such as that in the venerable types module) get changed, is 
virtually assured that some code will break.


Yes, *some* code will break, I never denied that. I just think that 
there is not much existing code which needs to distinguish between 
different kinds of methods, such that not much code will break. And if 
existing code does need to make that distinction, the reason for it 
might go away after PEP 575 (this is what Nick Coghlan also alluded to).


The hard question is whether the expected breakage is bad enough to 
reject this PEP. This is my first PEP, so I honestly don't have a good 
idea how high the bar for backwards compatibility is.



Jeroen.
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Re: [Python-Dev] Translating sample programs in documentation

2018-04-16 Thread Erik Bray 
On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 4:49 AM, Shell Xu  wrote:
> Well, I'm not sure weather or not this is what you're looking for, but pep-8
> (https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/) suggest like this:
>
> For Python 3.0 and beyond, the following policy is prescribed for the
> standard library (see PEP 3131): All identifiers in the Python standard
> library MUST use ASCII-only identifiers, and SHOULD use English words
> wherever feasible (in many cases, abbreviations and technical terms are used
> which aren't English). In addition, string literals and comments must also
> be in ASCII. The only exceptions are (a) test cases testing the non-ASCII
> features, and (b) names of authors. Authors whose names are not based on the
> Latin alphabet (latin-1, ISO/IEC 8859-1 character set) MUST provide a
> transliteration of their names in this character set.
>
> So, I guess translate symbols to Chinese are not gonna help reader to figure
> out what kind of code should they writing...


That only applies to the Python stdlib itself.  It's a feature that
Python allows unicode identifiers, and there's nothing about that
against PEP-8 for sure.

I think it's a great idea; I'm not sure how it works out technically
in terms of providing .po files for .rst documentation or if there's
some better mechanism for that...

Best,
E


> On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 12:41 AM, Xuan Wu
>  wrote:
>>
>> Excuse me if this was discussed before, but in French and Japanese
>> translations, all the sample programs seem to have identifiers in English
>> still. According to "PEP 545 -- Python Documentation Translations", as I
>> understand .po files are used for translations. May I ask if there's
>> technical restrictions causing translations being only applied to the text
>> parts?
>>
>> For example, here's the first sample program in 4.2:
>>
>> >>> # Measure some strings:
>> ... words = ['cat', 'window', 'defenestrate']
>> >>> for w in words:
>> ... print(w, len(w))
>> ...
>> cat 3
>> window 6
>> defenestrate 12
>>
>> Here's a possible translation in Chinese:
>>
>> >>> # 丈量一些字符串
>> ... 词表 = ['猫', '窗户', '丢出窗户']
>> >>> for 词 in 词表:
>> ... print(词, len(词))
>> ...
>> 猫 1
>> 窗户 2
>> 丢出窗户 4
>>
>> As you may notice the strings differ in size if they are translated
>> directly. Obviously that does add extra burden to review the new sample
>> programs to assure effectiveness and readability.
>> Any suggestion or comments are welcome.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Xuan.
>>
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>
>
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Re: [Python-Dev] Translating sample programs in documentation

2018-04-16 Thread Xuan Wu 
FYI I already post this in Doc-SIG mailing list, as it seems to be more 
relevant there.


@Shell, thanks for the reference. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I 
don't think the code standard for Python standard library applies to 
sample programs in the tutorials.



Best,
Xuan.

On 4/15/18 7:49 PM, Shell Xu wrote:
Well, I'm not sure weather or not this is what you're looking for, but 
pep-8 (https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/) suggest like this:


For Python 3.0 and beyond, the following policy is prescribed for the 
standard library (see PEP 3131): All identifiers in the Python 
standard library MUST use ASCII-only identifiers, and SHOULD use 
English words wherever feasible (in many cases, abbreviations and 
technical terms are used which aren't English). In addition, string 
literals and comments must also be in ASCII. The only exceptions are 
(a) test cases testing the non-ASCII features, and (b) names of 
authors. Authors whose names are not based on the Latin alphabet 
(latin-1, ISO/IEC 8859-1 character set) MUST provide a transliteration 
of their names in this character set.


So, I guess translate symbols to Chinese are not gonna help reader to 
figure out what kind of code should they writing...


On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 12:41 AM, Xuan Wu 
> wrote:


Excuse me if this was discussed before, but in French and Japanese
translations, all the sample programs seem to have identifiers in
English still. According to "PEP 545 -- Python Documentation
Translations", as I understand .po files are used for
translations. May I ask if there's technical restrictions causing
translations being only applied to the text parts?

For example, here's the first sample program in 4.2:

>>># Measure some strings:
... words  =  ['cat',  'window',  'defenestrate']
>>>for  w  in  words:
...  print(w,  len(w))
...
cat 3
window 6
defenestrate 12

Here's a possible translation in Chinese:

>>> # 丈量一些字符串
... 词表 = ['猫', '窗户', '丢出窗户']
>>> for 词 in 词表:
... print(词, len(词))
...
猫 1
窗户 2
丢出窗户 4

As you may notice the strings differ in size if they are
translated directly. Obviously that does add extra burden to
review the new sample programs to assure effectiveness and
readability.
Any suggestion or comments are welcome.


Thanks,
Xuan.

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