Re: [Python-Dev] OneGet provider for Python
On Fri, 14 Nov 2014 18:12:59 -0600 Vincent Povirk wrote: > I have been following OneGet development very closely, and I have > volunteered to create a OneGet provider for installing Python > packages. Normally, I would keep quiet about this sort of thing until > I have actual code that works, but since no one else on the OneGet > seems as interested in doing it, and the Python community (if this > mailing list is anything to go by) doesn't know what to make of this > stuff, I figured I should try to open lines of communication before I > start essentially making decisions on this community's behalf. > > So, the main advantage of a Python provider is that you would be able > to do things like: > > Install-Package -Provider Python -Name Pygments > or > > Install-Package Pygments-2.0.1-py3-none-any.whl > > and OneGet would be able to bootstrap (if necessary) the Python > provider itself, Python 3.x, and pip, and use pip to install the .whl. > (I'm unclear at the moment on whether pip is necessary to install a > .whl, but currently it looks to be the best thing to lean on for the > job of installing/uninstalling things). > > My end goal is to be able to package a Python application such that an > end-user on Windows (who doesn't know anything about Python) can > easily install it, without either of us having to think about how all > the dependencies are going to get there. > > I think that the best approach for the moment is to lean heavily on > pip for installing/uninstalling things, while duplicating other tasks > (such as listing installed packages, querying information about > package files, searching PyPI) in C# so that they do not require a > Python environment. > > If anyone has questions or concerns about this, please let me know. > Keep in mind that I am not subscribed to the mailing list and will > have to be CC'd. If you don't get any answers here, I would suggest posting on distutils-sig: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig There's a gmane mirror as well: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.distutils.devel/ Regards Antoine. ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] OneGet provider for Python
On 15 November 2014 00:12, Vincent Povirk wrote: > My end goal is to be able to package a Python application such that an > end-user on Windows (who doesn't know anything about Python) can > easily install it, without either of us having to think about how all > the dependencies are going to get there. That sounds awesome. > If anyone has questions or concerns about this, please let me know. > Keep in mind that I am not subscribed to the mailing list and will > have to be CC'd. You should probably discuss this on distutils-sig, as that is the main list for anything to do with packaging on Python. As Terry pointed out, you can monitor the lists without subscribing, but it would probably be better to subscribe, as people can tend to forget to cc the original author if a thread gets long. > If anyone has questions about OneGet generally, you should probably > ask them directly (see https://github.com/OneGet/oneget), as I am not > a definitive source of information on the project. Unless I'm misreading their install instructions, OneGet needs Windows 8.1 or Windows Server 2012, as it's based on WMF 5. That would exclude people using Windows 7 or earlier (or even the original Windows 8), which is a big proportion of Windows users. While that's not something you can do much about, it is something that's going to impact the goal of making it easy for Windows users to handle managing Python. > Incidentally, it would be really useful if python.org provided stable > url's that always redirected to the latest .msi installers, for > bootstrapping purposes. I'd prefer to not rely on chocolatey (or on > scraping the web site) for this. https://www.python.org/ftp/python/$ver/python-$ver.msi https://www.python.org/ftp/python/$ver/python-$ver.amd64.msi As far as I know these are stable, supported URLs. Although I don't think they are documented anywhere :-( Paul ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] OneGet provider for Python
On 15 Nov 2014 10:10, "Paul Moore" wrote: > > > Incidentally, it would be really useful if python.org provided stable > > url's that always redirected to the latest .msi installers, for > > bootstrapping purposes. I'd prefer to not rely on chocolatey (or on > > scraping the web site) for this. > > https://www.python.org/ftp/python/$ver/python-$ver.msi > https://www.python.org/ftp/python/$ver/python-$ver.amd64.msi Right, but what's the URL for "the latest 2.7.x release" or "the latest 3.x.x release"? -n ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] OneGet provider for Python
On 15 November 2014 10:54, Nathaniel Smith wrote: > On 15 Nov 2014 10:10, "Paul Moore" wrote: >> >> > Incidentally, it would be really useful if python.org provided stable >> > url's that always redirected to the latest .msi installers, for >> > bootstrapping purposes. I'd prefer to not rely on chocolatey (or on >> > scraping the web site) for this. >> >> https://www.python.org/ftp/python/$ver/python-$ver.msi >> https://www.python.org/ftp/python/$ver/python-$ver.amd64.msi > > Right, but what's the URL for "the latest 2.7.x release" or "the latest > 3.x.x release"? I don't know. As I said, it would be nice if these URLs (and "latest" ones as you mentioned) were documented. Paul ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] OneGet provider for Python
On Sat, Nov 15, 2014, at 05:54, Nathaniel Smith wrote: > On 15 Nov 2014 10:10, "Paul Moore" wrote: > > > > > Incidentally, it would be really useful if python.org provided stable > > > url's that always redirected to the latest .msi installers, for > > > bootstrapping purposes. I'd prefer to not rely on chocolatey (or on > > > scraping the web site) for this. > > > > https://www.python.org/ftp/python/$ver/python-$ver.msi > > https://www.python.org/ftp/python/$ver/python-$ver.amd64.msi > > Right, but what's the URL for "the latest 2.7.x release" or "the latest > 3.x.x release"? The website has an API you know. ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] OneGet provider for Python
On 15 November 2014 20:10, Paul Moore wrote: > On 15 November 2014 00:12, Vincent Povirk wrote: > > My end goal is to be able to package a Python application such that an > > end-user on Windows (who doesn't know anything about Python) can > > easily install it, without either of us having to think about how all > > the dependencies are going to get there. > > That sounds awesome. > > > If anyone has questions or concerns about this, please let me know. > > Keep in mind that I am not subscribed to the mailing list and will > > have to be CC'd. > > You should probably discuss this on distutils-sig, as that is the main > list for anything to do with packaging on Python. As Terry pointed > out, you can monitor the lists without subscribing, but it would > probably be better to subscribe, as people can tend to forget to cc > the original author if a thread gets long. > It's an interesting cross-over - the pip/pypi integration is definitely distutils-sig's domain, managing the CPython MSI packages is more python-dev. However, distutils-sig has a naturally higher proportion of folks interested in the general problem of software distribution (whether with Python specific tools or platform native ones). It's also the home of packaging.python.org maintenance, and as the Python ecosystem provider for OneGet becomes usable, it should likely be covered somewhere in there (perhaps in https://packaging.python.org/en/latest/deployment.html#os-packaging-installers although that section is currently still just a stub) Cheers, Nick. -- Nick Coghlan | [email protected] | Brisbane, Australia ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] OneGet provider for Python
On 15 November 2014 15:17, Benjamin Peterson wrote: > On Sat, Nov 15, 2014, at 05:54, Nathaniel Smith wrote: >> On 15 Nov 2014 10:10, "Paul Moore" wrote: >> > >> > > Incidentally, it would be really useful if python.org provided stable >> > > url's that always redirected to the latest .msi installers, for >> > > bootstrapping purposes. I'd prefer to not rely on chocolatey (or on >> > > scraping the web site) for this. >> > >> > https://www.python.org/ftp/python/$ver/python-$ver.msi >> > https://www.python.org/ftp/python/$ver/python-$ver.amd64.msi >> >> Right, but what's the URL for "the latest 2.7.x release" or "the latest >> 3.x.x release"? > > The website has an API you know. Um, no. Where can I find out about it? Paul ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] OneGet provider for Python
On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 2:40 AM, Paul Moore wrote: > On 15 November 2014 15:17, Benjamin Peterson wrote: >> On Sat, Nov 15, 2014, at 05:54, Nathaniel Smith wrote: >>> On 15 Nov 2014 10:10, "Paul Moore" wrote: >>> > >>> > > Incidentally, it would be really useful if python.org provided stable >>> > > url's that always redirected to the latest .msi installers, for >>> > > bootstrapping purposes. I'd prefer to not rely on chocolatey (or on >>> > > scraping the web site) for this. >>> > >>> > https://www.python.org/ftp/python/$ver/python-$ver.msi >>> > https://www.python.org/ftp/python/$ver/python-$ver.amd64.msi >>> >>> Right, but what's the URL for "the latest 2.7.x release" or "the latest >>> 3.x.x release"? >> >> The website has an API you know. > > Um, no. Where can I find out about it? I didn't know either, and I've been pointing people to the .msi installers periodically - just by manually hunting down the latest link and recommending it. If there's an easy way to define the two tokens Nathaniel described, I'd like to hear it too. ChrisA ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Windows Dedicated Mailing List
Fair enough. Like I said, I wanted to see what the consensus was, and it seems to be shifting towards not making another list. On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 6:36 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Shorya Raj writes: > > > I think it may be prudent to consider adding a Windows specific > > mailing list regarding development on Windows, > > One possibly-relevant anecdote. We had such a list for XEmacs, where > the biggest contributor 1998-2005 was Windows-based. *He* preferred > communicating via the main developers' list (the reasons given by > others in this thread were among his reasons), and the "xemacs-winnt" > list devolved into a forum for teaching newbies how to escape spaces > in filenames, and the occasional flame from a Windows-oriented user > who wanted XEmacs to change into a "modern GUI application" (like, > say, Word, except for writing programs). It died a natural death > (long before XEmacs development went dormant). > > N.B. The problem with modern GUI, of course, was that all the Windows- > based developers who contributed any code to speak of liked the mouse- > free pinky-welded-to-the-control-key UI (that's *why* they used > Emacsen). This might not be such a stark contrast in Python, which > doesn't pretend to be a UI. > > On the other hand, the Windows-oriented Python developers (several of > whom are currently inactive for reasons unrelated to their preferred > platform) have never seemed uncomfortable here. > > ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] OneGet provider for Python
>> The website has an API you know. > > Um, no. Where can I find out about it? Ooh, I didn't expect that. I couldn't find any documentation, but the source code of urls_api.py at https://github.com/python/pythondotorg/tree/master/pydotorg is certainly interesting. Also, distutils-sig does seem more appropriate, and I'm interested in packaging generally so I'll probably subscribe there. Sorry I missed it and ended up in the wrong place first. ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Windows Dedicated Mailing List
On 11/15/2014 3:01 AM, Shorya Raj wrote: Fair enough. Like I said, I wanted to see what the consensus was, and it seems to be shifting towards not making another list. Agreed. The traffic here is not high enough to need a split. Most OS specific issues that need a patch end up as a specific issue on the tracker with a limited subset of us as nosy. -- Terry Jan Reedy ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] OneGet provider for Python
> Also, distutils-sig does seem more appropriate, IMO we need a new mailing to discuss which mailing list is the most appropriate (which includes another new mailing list). Victor ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] OneGet provider for Python
On Sat, 15 Nov 2014 22:53:09 +0100 Victor Stinner wrote: > > Also, distutils-sig does seem more appropriate, > > IMO we need a new mailing to discuss which mailing list is the most > appropriate (which includes another new mailing list). I suggest you first write a PEP, and find a BDFL-delegate. Regards Antoine. ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
