Re: [Python-Dev] Where is our official policy of what platforms we do support?

2014-05-18 Thread Martin v. Löwis 
Am 15.05.14 16:20, schrieb Skip Montanaro:
> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Antoine Pitrou  wrote:
>> We already have such buildbots, they are in the "unstable" category.
>> You can browse through existing buildbots here:
>> https://www.python.org/dev/buildbot/
> 
> I can't see how to distinguish "stable" from "unstable" (or to view
> just the "unstable" category. What do those two categories have to do
> with "supported" and "unsupported"?

There are two competing definitions of "stable" vs. "unstable" when it
comes to buildbots.

1. "stable buildbot" (my preferred definition)
   * the buildbot is available most of the time, an operator will deal
 with it when it happens to go down, and the builds always complete.
   * consequentially, an unstable buildbot is one that tends to
 disconnect, and takes a long time for the operator to recover
2. "stable platform"
   * all tests are expected to pass all the time; i.e. there are no
 tests that randomly fail, and no platform-specific failures
   * thus, a failed test is an indication that a new bug has been
 introduced

When Antoine talked about "unofficial" buildbots, he was referring to
the fact that we accept nearly any buildbot offered, but put them into
the unstable category, which they often belong to by either definition
of unstable.

Regards,
Martin



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Re: [Python-Dev] Where is our official policy of what platforms we do support?

2014-05-18 Thread Martin v. Löwis 
Am 14.05.14 16:28, schrieb Barry Warsaw:
> On May 14, 2014, at 02:20 PM, Brett Cannon wrote:
> 
>> Do we want an official policy written down in a PEP (yes, I can write it)?
>> Should I keep closing these patches and saying that we are not adding
>> support for new operating systems and be hand-wavy about it?
> 
> Yes, I think a PEP describing both policy and implementation (i.e. which
> platforms we officially support) is worthwhile.  While I think you could write
> a new PEP, I also think it might just make sense to co-opt PEP 11 and broaden
> its scope, since as you say, removing support is only half the story.

I'd be careful to use the word "support". AFAIK, we do not offer
support for Python on any platform, beyond accepting bug reports in the
bug tracker. Paid support for Python is certainly offered by some
companies, but not by us.

IIUC, Brett is asking the question "What platforms is CPython supposed
to work on?". Thanks to autoconf, it is impossible to give a complete
list of such platforms. It might be that Python builds just fine, with
no changes required, on a system that we've never heard of.

So if you want to give a complete list of "supported" platforms, it
might be the question "What platforms do we care about?", in the sense
that someone would be willing to invest time if it stops working.
Again, as we do not offer paid support, this list might get misleadingly
long. I'd be personally willing to invest time looking into a lot of
problems - just not within the next 12 months (but surely some day :-)

The only reasonable positive platform list I can think of is
"What platforms do we consider release-critical?", in the sense of
not letting a release proceed if it fails to work on one of these
platforms. We've had such a list for a long time, it is:
- Microsoft Windows
- Linux
- Apple Mac OS X

Regards,
Martin

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[Python-Dev] [RELEASED] Python 2.7.7 release candidate 1

2014-05-18 Thread Benjamin Peterson 
Greetings Python users,
Python 2.7.7 release candidate 1 is now available for download. Python
2.7.7 is a regularly scheduled bugfix release for the Python 2.7 series.
The 2.7.7 release contains fixes for two severe, if arcane, potential
security vulnerabilities. The first was the possibility of reading
arbitrary process memory using JSONDecoder.raw_decode. [1] (No other
json APIs are affected.) The second security issue is an integer
overflow in the strop module. [2] (If you don't know what the strop
module is, go ahead and forget it now.) This release also includes
months of accumulated normal bugfixes. All the changes in Python 2.7.7
are described in detail in the Misc/NEWS file of the source tarball. You
can view it online at

http://hg.python.org/cpython/raw-file/e32e3a9f3902/Misc/NEWS

Downloads are at

https://python.org/download/releases/2.7.7/

This is a testing release. Assuming no horrible bugs are found, 2.7.7
final will be released in two weeks time. Please consider testing your
applications and libraries with the release candidate and reporting bugs
to

http://bugs.python.org/

Enjoy,
Benjamin Peterson
2.7 Release Manager

[1] http://bugs.python.org/issue21529
[2] http://bugs.python.org/issue21530
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[Python-Dev] Python 2.7.7 and PEP 466

2014-05-18 Thread Guido van Rossum 
On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 5:49 PM, Benjamin Peterson wrote:

> Greetings Python users,
> Python 2.7.7 release candidate 1 is now available for download. [...]
>
> http://hg.python.org/cpython/raw-file/e32e3a9f3902/Misc/NEWS
>

So what became of PEP 466? This Misc/NEWS only mentions hmac.compare_digest.

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
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Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7.7 and PEP 466

2014-05-18 Thread Benjamin Peterson 
On Sun, May 18, 2014, at 18:53, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 5:49 PM, Benjamin Peterson
> wrote:
> 
> > Greetings Python users,
> > Python 2.7.7 release candidate 1 is now available for download. [...]
> >
> > http://hg.python.org/cpython/raw-file/e32e3a9f3902/Misc/NEWS
> >
> 
> So what became of PEP 466? This Misc/NEWS only mentions
> hmac.compare_digest.

It didn't get completely done. Mostly of it will land in 2.7.8
presumably.
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Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7.7 and PEP 466

2014-05-18 Thread Benjamin Peterson 
On Sun, May 18, 2014, at 18:53, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 5:49 PM, Benjamin Peterson
> wrote:
> 
> > Greetings Python users,
> > Python 2.7.7 release candidate 1 is now available for download. [...]
> >
> > http://hg.python.org/cpython/raw-file/e32e3a9f3902/Misc/NEWS
> >
> 
> So what became of PEP 466? This Misc/NEWS only mentions
> hmac.compare_digest.

It didn't get completely done. Mostly of it will land in 2.7.8
presumably.
--
Regards,
Benjamin

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Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7.7 and PEP 466

2014-05-18 Thread Benjamin Peterson 
On Sun, May 18, 2014, at 18:53, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 5:49 PM, Benjamin Peterson
> wrote:
> 
> > Greetings Python users,
> > Python 2.7.7 release candidate 1 is now available for download. [...]
> >
> > http://hg.python.org/cpython/raw-file/e32e3a9f3902/Misc/NEWS
> >
> 
> So what became of PEP 466? This Misc/NEWS only mentions
> hmac.compare_digest.

It didn't get completely done. Mostly of it will land in 2.7.8
presumably.
--
Regards,
Benjamin

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Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7.7 and PEP 466

2014-05-18 Thread Donald Stufft 

On May 18, 2014, at 9:53 PM, Guido van Rossum  wrote:

> On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 5:49 PM, Benjamin Peterson  
> wrote:
> Greetings Python users,
> Python 2.7.7 release candidate 1 is now available for download. [...]
> 
> http://hg.python.org/cpython/raw-file/e32e3a9f3902/Misc/NEWS
> 
> So what became of PEP 466? This Misc/NEWS only mentions hmac.compare_digest.
> 
> -- 
> --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
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The SSL changes were too large to get done before 2.7.7

The pbkdf2 has a patch sitting on the tracker 
(http://bugs.python.org/issue21304) Alex wanted someone to review before 
commit. I looked over it but I don’t feel strong enough in C code to call it a 
proper review.

The guaranteed_algorithms bug depends on the pbkdf2 bug 
(http://bugs.python.org/issue21307)

The os.urandom change had some argument and some concern that the related 
change in 3.4 was still new and had some bugs being ironed out so it was punted 
until 2.7.8 (http://bugs.python.org/issue21305)

And that was everything from PEP 466.

-
Donald Stufft
PGP: 0x6E3CBCE93372DCFA // 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA



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Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7.7 and PEP 466

2014-05-18 Thread Guido van Rossum 
Thanks for the update, Donald. Did anyone get any help from Red Hat or
other distros?


On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 7:02 PM, Donald Stufft  wrote:

>
> On May 18, 2014, at 9:53 PM, Guido van Rossum  wrote:
>
> On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 5:49 PM, Benjamin Peterson wrote:
>
>> Greetings Python users,
>> Python 2.7.7 release candidate 1 is now available for download. [...]
>>
>> http://hg.python.org/cpython/raw-file/e32e3a9f3902/Misc/NEWS
>>
>
> So what became of PEP 466? This Misc/NEWS only mentions
> hmac.compare_digest.
>
> --
> --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
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>
>
> The SSL changes were too large to get done before 2.7.7
>
> The pbkdf2 has a patch sitting on the tracker (
> http://bugs.python.org/issue21304) Alex wanted someone to review before
> commit. I looked over it but I don’t feel strong enough in C code to call
> it a proper review.
>
> The guaranteed_algorithms bug depends on the pbkdf2 bug (
> http://bugs.python.org/issue21307)
>
> The os.urandom change had some argument and some concern that the related
> change in 3.4 was still new and had some bugs being ironed out so it was
> punted until 2.7.8 (http://bugs.python.org/issue21305)
>
> And that was everything from PEP 466.
>
> -
> Donald Stufft
> PGP: 0x6E3CBCE93372DCFA // 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372
> DCFA
>
>


-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
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Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7.7 and PEP 466

2014-05-18 Thread Donald Stufft 
Well I believe Alex did what he did during his work day @ Rackspace.

Distros specifically I don’t believe so, although both Alex and myself agreed 
that it
made sense for the SSL changes to wait until after the other changes since it 
was
the largest and most complicated. I think that’s the one where it makes the most
sense to try and garner help from Red Hat or the like.

Perhaps Nick knows someone at Red Hat we can poke to see if they’d be willing
to do the SSL patch :)

On May 18, 2014, at 10:28 PM, Guido van Rossum  wrote:

> Thanks for the update, Donald. Did anyone get any help from Red Hat or other 
> distros?
> 
> 
> On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 7:02 PM, Donald Stufft  wrote:
> 
> On May 18, 2014, at 9:53 PM, Guido van Rossum  wrote:
> 
>> On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 5:49 PM, Benjamin Peterson  
>> wrote:
>> Greetings Python users,
>> Python 2.7.7 release candidate 1 is now available for download. [...]
>> 
>> http://hg.python.org/cpython/raw-file/e32e3a9f3902/Misc/NEWS
>> 
>> So what became of PEP 466? This Misc/NEWS only mentions hmac.compare_digest.
>> 
>> -- 
>> --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
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>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
>> Unsubscribe: 
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/donald%40stufft.io
> 
> The SSL changes were too large to get done before 2.7.7
> 
> The pbkdf2 has a patch sitting on the tracker 
> (http://bugs.python.org/issue21304) Alex wanted someone to review before 
> commit. I looked over it but I don’t feel strong enough in C code to call it 
> a proper review.
> 
> The guaranteed_algorithms bug depends on the pbkdf2 bug 
> (http://bugs.python.org/issue21307)
> 
> The os.urandom change had some argument and some concern that the related 
> change in 3.4 was still new and had some bugs being ironed out so it was 
> punted until 2.7.8 (http://bugs.python.org/issue21305)
> 
> And that was everything from PEP 466.
> 
> -
> Donald Stufft
> PGP: 0x6E3CBCE93372DCFA // 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)


-
Donald Stufft
PGP: 0x6E3CBCE93372DCFA // 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA



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Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7.7 and PEP 466

2014-05-18 Thread Guido van Rossum 
At the very least PEP 466 needs to be updated to admit the failure -- it
would be a shame if people read the PEP and assumed the promised features
actually landed in 2.7.7 (which the PEP explicitly lists).
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Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7.7 and PEP 466

2014-05-18 Thread Nick Coghlan 
On 19 May 2014 12:35, Guido van Rossum  wrote:
> At the very least PEP 466 needs to be updated to admit the failure -- it
> would be a shame if people read the PEP and assumed the promised features
> actually landed in 2.7.7 (which the PEP explicitly lists).

Will do - I'll update that to reference the specific issues tracking
the implementation of the individual elements.

On a related note, I was also thinking about adding a new section to
the What's New in Python 2.7 doc. Specifically, a new "Security
Enhancements in Maintenance Releases" section after the existing "The
Future of Python 2.x" section. That would reference PEP 466 for
background, and then list the specific maintenance releases where
these features have been added (so just the one 2.7.7 entry for
hmac.compare_digest to start with).

I'd also add a direct link to PEP 373 (the 2.7 release schedule PEP)
from the first bullet point under "The Future of Python 2.x" section
(as well as rewording that point to better reflect the current state
of things)

Regards,
Nick.

P.S. As far as additional development resources for long term upstream
CPython maintenance go - I'm working on it (and my understanding is
that folks at other orgs are as well). Personally, I'm still in the
gap between "that's likely a good idea" and actually translating the
concept into available developer time. While Heartbleed has helped
raise awareness of the whole "What are we depending on without
committing sufficient development resources to long term maintenance?"
problem, large orgs still don't tend to move that fast :)

-- 
Nick Coghlan   |   [email protected]   |   Brisbane, Australia
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[Python-Dev] Merge conflicts from unmerged 3.4 commits, what do I do?

2014-05-18 Thread Terry Reedy 

An hour ago, I pulled recent commits to my local repository.
I edited a couple of files, wrote commit messages, and pulled again, 
nothing new. I then did the usual: commit 2.7, commit 3.4, merge to 3.5.


Problem: merge conflicts from 6 files I have never touched.
Include/patchlevel.h
Lib/distutils/__init__.py
Lib/idlelib/idlever.py
Lib/pydoc_data/topics.py
Misc/RPM/python-3.5.spec
README

I stopped at this point and ran diskcheck. I then looked at the DAG and 
noticed 5 previous 3.4 patches that were not merged into 3.5: rev 90750 
and 90751, Larry Hastings, 2 weeks ago!, rev
90752 and 90753 by Larry a day ago, and 90755 by Raymond Hettinger 8 
hours ago. From earliest to lastest:


c67a19e11a71
7c5f1b200a24
35ea333f43bd
31211947387b
854fd62f

If there was any notice on the Committer's list about not making 
commits, I did not get it. In fact, I do not remember getting anything 
on that list for at about a month. Besides that, I had no problem 3 days 
ago, and noticed the commit by Raymond, though not the absence of a merge.


In any case, what do I do now, short of deleting and re-cloning, so I do 
not make anything worse?


--
Terry Jan Reedy

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Re: [Python-Dev] Merge conflicts from unmerged 3.4 commits, what do I do?

2014-05-18 Thread Raymond Hettinger 

On May 19, 2014, at 5:52 AM, Terry Reedy  wrote:

> I stopped at this point and ran diskcheck. I then looked at the DAG and 
> noticed 5 previous 3.4 patches that were not merged into 3.5: rev 90750 and 
> 90751, Larry Hastings, 2 weeks ago!, rev
> 90752 and 90753 by Larry a day ago, and 90755 by Raymond Hettinger 8 hours 
> ago. From earliest to lastest:
> 
> c67a19e11a71
> 7c5f1b200a24
> 35ea333f43bd
> 31211947387b
> 854fd62f
> 
> If there was any notice on the Committer's list about not making commits, I 
> did not get it. In fact, I do not remember getting anything on that list for 
> at about a month. Besides that, I had no problem 3 days ago, and noticed the 
> commit by Raymond, though not the absence of a merge.
> 
> In any case, what do I do now, short of deleting and re-cloning, so I do not 
> make anything worse?

I bumped into this a few hours ago (a bunch of uncommitted 3.4 merges, all with 
conflicts).  

To get my repo back into a usable state, I ran "hg update --clean" and am 
waiting for Larry to do his cleans-up. Once his are in, I'll merge my last 3.4 
commit (which should be easy since it has no conflicts).


Raymond___
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Re: [Python-Dev] Merge conflicts from unmerged 3.4 commits, what do I do?

2014-05-18 Thread Terry Reedy 

On 5/19/2014 1:31 AM, Raymond Hettinger wrote:


On May 19, 2014, at 5:52 AM, Terry Reedy mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:


I stopped at this point and ran diskcheck. I then looked at the DAG
and noticed 5 previous 3.4 patches that were not merged into 3.5: rev
90750 and 90751, Larry Hastings, 2 weeks ago!, rev
90752 and 90753 by Larry a day ago, and 90755 by Raymond Hettinger 8
hours ago. From earliest to lastest:

c67a19e11a71
7c5f1b200a24
35ea333f43bd
31211947387b
854fd62f

If there was any notice on the Committer's list about not making
commits, I did not get it. In fact, I do not remember getting anything
on that list for at about a month. Besides that, I had no problem 3
days ago, and noticed the commit by Raymond, though not the absence of
a merge.

In any case, what do I do now, short of deleting and re-cloning, so I
do not make anything worse?


I bumped into this a few hours ago (a bunch of uncommitted 3.4 merges,
all with conflicts).

To get my repo back into a usable state, I ran "hg update --clean"


On Win 7, in TortoiseHG Workbench, command line

py35% hg update --clean
% hg update --clean
abort: index 00changelog.i unknown format 2!
[command returned code 255 Mon May 19 02:04:15 2014]
py35%

Same at command prompt in py35 directory.


am waiting for Larry to do his cleans-up. Once his are in, I'll merge my
last 3.4 commit (which should be easy since it has no conflicts).



--
Terry Jan Reedy

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Re: [Python-Dev] Merge conflicts from unmerged 3.4 commits, what do I do?

2014-05-18 Thread Larry Hastings 

On 05/18/2014 10:31 PM, Raymond Hettinger wrote:


On May 19, 2014, at 5:52 AM, Terry Reedy > wrote:


I stopped at this point and ran diskcheck. I then looked at the DAG 
and noticed 5 previous 3.4 patches that were not merged into 3.5: rev 
90750 and 90751, Larry Hastings, 2 weeks ago!, rev
90752 and 90753 by Larry a day ago, and 90755 by Raymond Hettinger 8 
hours ago. From earliest to lastest:


c67a19e11a71
7c5f1b200a24
35ea333f43bd
31211947387b
854fd62f

If there was any notice on the Committer's list about not making 
commits, I did not get it. In fact, I do not remember getting 
anything on that list for at about a month. Besides that, I had no 
problem 3 days ago, and noticed the commit by Raymond, though not the 
absence of a merge.


In any case, what do I do now, short of deleting and re-cloning, so I 
do not make anything worse?


I bumped into this a few hours ago (a bunch of uncommitted 3.4 merges, 
all with conflicts).


To get my repo back into a usable state, I ran "hg update --clean" and 
am waiting for Larry to do his cleans-up. Once his are in, I'll merge 
my last 3.4 commit (which should be easy since it has no conflicts).



I think I've got everything merged properly.  So cry havoc and let slip 
the merge of howto/sockets.rst!



//arry/
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