[Python-Dev] libffi inclusion in python
Hi libffi has bugs sometimes (like this http://bugs.python.org/issue17580). Now this is a thing that upstream fixes really quickly, but tracking down issues on bugs.python.org is annoying (they never get commited as quickly as the upstream). is there a good reason why cpython has it's own copy of libffi? I understand historical reasons, but PyPy gets along relying on the system library, so maybe we can kill the inclusion. Cheers, fijal ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] libffi inclusion in python
Maciej Fijalkowski, 18.04.2013 13:41: > PyPy gets along relying on the system library Depends on what systems you want to support, I guess. Stefan ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] libffi inclusion in python
2013/4/18 Maciej Fijalkowski : > Hi > > libffi has bugs sometimes (like this > http://bugs.python.org/issue17580). Now this is a thing that upstream > fixes really quickly, but tracking down issues on bugs.python.org is > annoying (they never get commited as quickly as the upstream). is > there a good reason why cpython has it's own copy of libffi? I > understand historical reasons, but PyPy gets along relying on the > system library, so maybe we can kill the inclusion. IIRC, it had (has?) some custom windows patches, which no one knows whether they're relevant or not. I personally would love to see all libraries that we have copies of in the repo killed. -- Regards, Benjamin ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Python-Dev] A decade as a core dev
Today marks my 10 year anniversary as a core developer on Python. I wrote a blog post to mark the occasion (http://sayspy.blogspot.ca/2013/04/a-decade-of-commits.html), but I wanted to personally thank python-dev for the past decade (and whatever comes in the future). All of you taught me how to really program and for that I will be eternally grateful. And the friendships I have built through this list are priceless. ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] libffi inclusion in python
In article , Benjamin Peterson wrote: > 2013/4/18 Maciej Fijalkowski : > > libffi has bugs sometimes (like this > > http://bugs.python.org/issue17580). Now this is a thing that upstream > > fixes really quickly, but tracking down issues on bugs.python.org is > > annoying (they never get commited as quickly as the upstream). is > > there a good reason why cpython has it's own copy of libffi? I > > understand historical reasons, but PyPy gets along relying on the > > system library, so maybe we can kill the inclusion. > > IIRC, it had (has?) some custom windows patches, which no one knows > whether they're relevant or not. The cpython copy also has custom OS X patches. I've never looked at them so I don't have a feel for how much work would be involved in migrating to current upstream. If it's just a matter of supporting universal builds, it could be done with some Makefile hacking to do a lipo dance. Ronald, any additional thoughts? http://bugs.python.org/issue15194 Currently, for the OS X installer builds, we build a number of third-party libs that are either missing from OS X (like lzma) or are too out-of-date on the oldest systems we support. It would be useful to generalize the third-party lib support and move it out of the installer build process so that all builds could take advantage of the libs if needed. libffi could be added to those. Of course, that wouldn't help for Windows builds. -- Ned Deily, [email protected] ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] A decade as a core dev
Congrats Brett! I'd say you have learned a lot more than programming during your time here!! On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 8:02 AM, Brett Cannon wrote: > Today marks my 10 year anniversary as a core developer on Python. I > wrote a blog post to mark the occasion > (http://sayspy.blogspot.ca/2013/04/a-decade-of-commits.html), but I > wanted to personally thank python-dev for the past decade (and > whatever comes in the future). All of you taught me how to really > program and for that I will be eternally grateful. And the friendships > I have built through this list are priceless. > ___ > Python-Dev mailing list > [email protected] > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev > Unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/guido%40python.org -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] A decade as a core dev
On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 12:17 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: > Congrats Brett! I'd say you have learned a lot more than programming > during your time here!! Oh yes, such as how to put on a flame-retardant suit, the colours of the rainbow based on the bikesheds, and how I will never be able to pronounce your name properly. =) Seriously though, yes, I've learned tons about all sorts of things during my time here. -Brett > > On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 8:02 AM, Brett Cannon wrote: >> Today marks my 10 year anniversary as a core developer on Python. I >> wrote a blog post to mark the occasion >> (http://sayspy.blogspot.ca/2013/04/a-decade-of-commits.html), but I >> wanted to personally thank python-dev for the past decade (and >> whatever comes in the future). All of you taught me how to really >> program and for that I will be eternally grateful. And the friendships >> I have built through this list are priceless. >> ___ >> Python-Dev mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev >> Unsubscribe: >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/guido%40python.org > > > > -- > --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] A decade as a core dev
My congratulations! On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 8:01 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: > On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 12:17 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: >> Congrats Brett! I'd say you have learned a lot more than programming >> during your time here!! > > Oh yes, such as how to put on a flame-retardant suit, the colours of > the rainbow based on the bikesheds, and how I will never be able to > pronounce your name properly. =) > > Seriously though, yes, I've learned tons about all sorts of things > during my time here. > > -Brett > >> >> On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 8:02 AM, Brett Cannon wrote: >>> Today marks my 10 year anniversary as a core developer on Python. I >>> wrote a blog post to mark the occasion >>> (http://sayspy.blogspot.ca/2013/04/a-decade-of-commits.html), but I >>> wanted to personally thank python-dev for the past decade (and >>> whatever comes in the future). All of you taught me how to really >>> program and for that I will be eternally grateful. And the friendships >>> I have built through this list are priceless. >>> ___ >>> Python-Dev mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev >>> Unsubscribe: >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/guido%40python.org >> >> >> >> -- >> --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) > ___ > Python-Dev mailing list > [email protected] > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev > Unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/andrew.svetlov%40gmail.com -- Thanks, Andrew Svetlov ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] A decade as a core dev
On Thu, 18 Apr 2013 11:02:37 -0400 Brett Cannon wrote: > Today marks my 10 year anniversary as a core developer on Python. I > wrote a blog post to mark the occasion > (http://sayspy.blogspot.ca/2013/04/a-decade-of-commits.html), but I > wanted to personally thank python-dev for the past decade (and > whatever comes in the future). All of you taught me how to really > program and for that I will be eternally grateful. And the friendships > I have built through this list are priceless. Normally you should break a buildbot as a celebration :) cheers Antoine. ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] A decade as a core dev
2013/4/18 Antoine Pitrou : > On Thu, 18 Apr 2013 11:02:37 -0400 > Brett Cannon wrote: >> Today marks my 10 year anniversary as a core developer on Python. I >> wrote a blog post to mark the occasion >> (http://sayspy.blogspot.ca/2013/04/a-decade-of-commits.html), but I >> wanted to personally thank python-dev for the past decade (and >> whatever comes in the future). All of you taught me how to really >> program and for that I will be eternally grateful. And the friendships >> I have built through this list are priceless. > > Normally you should break a buildbot as a celebration :) He might lose all his friends then. -- Regards, Benjamin ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] A decade as a core dev
On Apr 18, 2013, at 11:02 AM, Brett Cannon wrote: > Today marks my 10 year anniversary as a core developer on Python. I > wrote a blog post to mark the occasion > (http://sayspy.blogspot.ca/2013/04/a-decade-of-commits.html), but I > wanted to personally thank python-dev for the past decade (and > whatever comes in the future). Wow 10 years that is incredible!! Your blog post was awesome. You are an inspiration to me as I just started contributing this past October. I can honestly see how you have spent 10 years of "spare hours" night time engineering. I find contributing a bit addictive myself. Here is what happens to me at night, on my right shoulder a little Guido appears out of thin air and says "go to bed" but then on my left shoulder another Guido appears and says "all you have to do is test this last patch". Next thing you know it is 2 am and I have to get up at 5 am for work so I convince myself to stay up all night. Indeed contributing to Python is very rewarding. ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] A decade as a core dev
On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 2:21 PM, Todd V Rovito wrote: > On Apr 18, 2013, at 11:02 AM, Brett Cannon wrote: > >> Today marks my 10 year anniversary as a core developer on Python. I >> wrote a blog post to mark the occasion >> (http://sayspy.blogspot.ca/2013/04/a-decade-of-commits.html), but I >> wanted to personally thank python-dev for the past decade (and >> whatever comes in the future). > Wow 10 years that is incredible!! Your blog post was awesome. You are an > inspiration to me as I just started contributing this past October. Thanks for the kind words. > I can honestly see how you have spent 10 years of "spare hours" night time > engineering. I find contributing a bit addictive myself. Here is what > happens to me at night, on my right shoulder a little Guido appears out of > thin air and says "go to bed" but then on my left shoulder another Guido > appears and says "all you have to do is test this last patch". Next thing > you know it is 2 am and I have to get up at 5 am for work so I convince > myself to stay up all night. Indeed contributing to Python is very rewarding. I suspect the real Guido would say "go to bed" since there is always tomorrow. =) ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] libffi inclusion in python
On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 2:47 PM, Benjamin Peterson wrote: > 2013/4/18 Maciej Fijalkowski : >> Hi >> >> libffi has bugs sometimes (like this >> http://bugs.python.org/issue17580). Now this is a thing that upstream >> fixes really quickly, but tracking down issues on bugs.python.org is >> annoying (they never get commited as quickly as the upstream). is >> there a good reason why cpython has it's own copy of libffi? I >> understand historical reasons, but PyPy gets along relying on the >> system library, so maybe we can kill the inclusion. > > IIRC, it had (has?) some custom windows patches, which no one knows > whether they're relevant or not. > > I personally would love to see all libraries that we have copies of in > the repo killed. Upstream seems to be incredibly responsive. Why not merge them there? Is it just "we can't patch distutils" crap? If we *really* need to provide libraries for systems that don't have them, how about simply having a separate download for those systems instead of using it on systems that *do* have them and in fact *do* have them in a better version. Note that the recent patches (one for 32bit, one for ARM) are easily security holes. I'm not 100% sure if segfault caused by stack misalignment is an exploitable thing, but you can definitely cause a segfault on any ctypes code, even if perfectly safe. Cheers, fijal ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] A decade as a core dev
On Apr 18, 2013, at 07:34 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: >Normally you should break a buildbot as a celebration :) Or do a release and go on vacation. -Barry ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] libffi inclusion in python
libffi has bugs sometimes (like this http://bugs.python.org/issue17580). Now this is a thing that upstream fixes really quickly, but tracking down issues on bugs.python.org is annoying (they never get commited as quickly as the upstream). is there a good reason why cpython has it's own copy of libffi? I understand historical reasons, but PyPy gets along relying on the system library, so maybe we can kill the inclusion. IIRC, it had (has?) some custom windows patches, which no one knows whether they're relevant or not. The only windows patch that is most certainly not in upstream is the ability to check and correct the stack pointer after a windows function call depending on the calling convention (stdcall or cdecl). Since this is windows 32-bit only (on windows 64-bit these calling conventions are aliases for the same thing), it would probably be good to remove the distinction between them for function calls. Upstream seems to be incredibly responsive. Why not merge them there? At the time when ctypes was implemented, this was different. They didn't even do libffi releases, IIRC. Thomas ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] libffi inclusion in python
On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 9:22 PM, Thomas Heller wrote: libffi has bugs sometimes (like this http://bugs.python.org/issue17580). Now this is a thing that upstream fixes really quickly, but tracking down issues on bugs.python.org is annoying (they never get commited as quickly as the upstream). is there a good reason why cpython has it's own copy of libffi? I understand historical reasons, but PyPy gets along relying on the system library, so maybe we can kill the inclusion. >>> >>> >>> IIRC, it had (has?) some custom windows patches, which no one knows >>> whether they're relevant or not. > > > The only windows patch that is most certainly not in upstream is the > ability to check and correct the stack pointer after a windows function > call depending on the calling convention (stdcall or cdecl). > > Since this is windows 32-bit only (on windows 64-bit these calling > conventions are aliases for the same thing), it would probably be good > to remove the distinction between them for function calls. > > > >> Upstream seems to be incredibly responsive. Why not merge them there? > > > At the time when ctypes was implemented, this was different. They > didn't even do libffi releases, IIRC. > > Thomas Cool. Note that I don't ask "why the hell was it included", I assume there was the right choice at a time, I ask "can we remove it now?" which seems to be mostly yes. Cheers, fijal ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] libffi inclusion in python
On 18 apr. 2013, at 18:09, Ned Deily wrote: > In article > , > Benjamin Peterson wrote: >> 2013/4/18 Maciej Fijalkowski : >>> libffi has bugs sometimes (like this >>> http://bugs.python.org/issue17580). Now this is a thing that upstream >>> fixes really quickly, but tracking down issues on bugs.python.org is >>> annoying (they never get commited as quickly as the upstream). is >>> there a good reason why cpython has it's own copy of libffi? I >>> understand historical reasons, but PyPy gets along relying on the >>> system library, so maybe we can kill the inclusion. >> >> IIRC, it had (has?) some custom windows patches, which no one knows >> whether they're relevant or not. > > The cpython copy also has custom OS X patches. I've never looked at > them so I don't have a feel for how much work would be involved in > migrating to current upstream. If it's just a matter of supporting > universal builds, it could be done with some Makefile hacking to do a > lipo dance. Ronald, any additional thoughts? It is probably just a matter of supporting universal builds, but I haven't checked the state of upstream libffi in the last couple of years. The libffi_osx tree is a fork from upstream that started around the time of OSX 10.4, and possibly earlier. As Thomas mentioned the upstream maintainer weren't very responsive in the past, at the time I hacked on libffi (IIRC for Darwin/i386 support) it wasn't even clear how the maintainers could be reached. Stripping libffi from python's source tree would be fine by me, but would require testing with upstream libffi. AFAIK system libffi on osx wouldn't be goog enough, it doesn't work properly with clang. Ronald > > http://bugs.python.org/issue15194 > > Currently, for the OS X installer builds, we build a number of > third-party libs that are either missing from OS X (like lzma) or are > too out-of-date on the oldest systems we support. It would be useful to > generalize the third-party lib support and move it out of the installer > build process so that all builds could take advantage of the libs if > needed. libffi could be added to those. Of course, that wouldn't help > for Windows builds. > > -- > Ned Deily, > [email protected] > > ___ > Python-Dev mailing list > [email protected] > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev > Unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/ronaldoussoren%40mac.com ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
