Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 408 -- Standard library __preview__ package

2012-02-04 Thread Steven D'Aprano

Terry Reedy wrote:

On 2/3/2012 6:18 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:


Now we're talking about having to add __preview__ into that mix too?


As I understand it, Guido nixed that idea. (Or did I imagine that?)


No, you are right, discussion should cease. It is already marked 
'rejected' and listed under Abandoned, Withdrawn, and Rejected PEPs.



Preview modules will be just added to the std lib as normal, and you
have to read the docs to find out they're preview.


What's New should say so too.


A thought comes to mind...

It strikes me that it would be helpful sometimes to programmatically recognise 
"preview" modules in the std lib. Could we have a recommendation in PEP 8 that 
such modules should have a global variable called PREVIEW, and non-preview 
modules should not, so that the recommended way of telling them apart is with 
hasattr(module, "PREVIEW")?




--
Steven
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Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 408 -- Standard library __preview__ package

2012-02-04 Thread Paul Moore
On 4 February 2012 11:25, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> It strikes me that it would be helpful sometimes to programmatically
> recognise "preview" modules in the std lib. Could we have a recommendation
> in PEP 8 that such modules should have a global variable called PREVIEW, and
> non-preview modules should not, so that the recommended way of telling them
> apart is with hasattr(module, "PREVIEW")?

In what situation would you want that when you weren't referring to a
specific module? If you're referring to a specific module and you
really care, just check sys.version. (That's annoying and ugly enough
that it'd probably make you thing about why you are doing it - I
cannot honestly think of a case where I'd actually want to check in
code if a module is a preview - hence my question as to what your use
case is).

Feels like YAGNI to me.
Paul.
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Re: [Python-Dev] OS X build break

2012-02-04 Thread Ned Deily
In article 
,
 Meador Inge  wrote:

> On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 5:56 PM, Guido van Rossum  wrote:
> 
> > PS. I would propose a specific fix but I can't seem to build a working
> > CPython from the trunk on my laptop (OS X 10.6, Xcode 4.1). I get this error
> > late in the build:
> >
> > ./python.exe -SE -m sysconfig --generate-posix-vars
> > Fatal Python error: Py_Initialize: can't initialize sys standard streams
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "/Users/guido/cpython/Lib/io.py", line 60, in 
> > make: *** [Lib/_sysconfigdata.py] Abort trap
> 
> I am having this problem now too.  I am running OS X 10.7.2.
> 3.2 still builds for me, but I can't build default.
> 
> Did you ever get past it?  Anyone else seeing this?

Chances are you are using llvm-gcc-4.2, the default CC for Xcode 4.2.  
There is a critical compile error with it (Issue13241) when building 
default (3.3).  My current recommendations (despite some test failures):

- for OS X 10.7.x, use the latest released Xcode, currently Xcode 4.2.1, 
and build with clang and debug:

./configure --with-pydebug CC=clang MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET=10.7

- for OS X 10.6.x, if possible, continue to use the last released Xcode 
3.2 (3.2.6), which includes Apple gcc-4.2 (/usr/bin/gcc-4.2 not 
llvm-gcc-4.2)

/usr/bin/gcc-4.2 --version
./configure MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET=10.6
or
./configure --with-pydebug MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET=10.6

- for OS X 10.6.x with Xcode 4 installed (which does not include Apple 
gcc-4.2), use the latest Xcode 4.2 for 10.6 and use clang and debug:

./configure --with-pydebug CC=clang MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET=10.6


Unfortunately, testing and sorting out the issues with the current OS X 
compilers has taken much much longer than anticipated, primarily because 
it's a big task and, until several days ago, I have had no time to 
devote to it.  But I'm making progress now with installer builds 
completed for all of default, 3.2-tip, 3.2.2, 2.7-tip, and 2.7.2, each 
with all of the major compiler combinations on 10.5, 10.6 (Xcode 3.2 and 
4.2), and 10.7 (4.1 and 4.2); the tests are running now on each of the 
applicable environments (that will take about another week to complete).  
Realistically, we should be able to have everything tested, fixed, and 
documented by the end of the PyCon sprints next month.  We will also 
have some recommendations for buildbot changes.

BTW, the current test failures with clang without pydebug include a 
number of ctypes test failures (in ctypes.test.test_cfuncs.CFunctions).  
If anyone has time to further investigate those, it would be very 
helpful (Issue13370).

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 [email protected]

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Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 408 -- Standard library __preview__ package

2012-02-04 Thread Matt Joiner
+1
On Feb 4, 2012 8:37 PM, "Paul Moore"  wrote:
>
> On 4 February 2012 11:25, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> > It strikes me that it would be helpful sometimes to programmatically
> > recognise "preview" modules in the std lib. Could we have a
recommendation
> > in PEP 8 that such modules should have a global variable called
PREVIEW, and
> > non-preview modules should not, so that the recommended way of telling
them
> > apart is with hasattr(module, "PREVIEW")?
>
> In what situation would you want that when you weren't referring to a
> specific module? If you're referring to a specific module and you
> really care, just check sys.version. (That's annoying and ugly enough
> that it'd probably make you thing about why you are doing it - I
> cannot honestly think of a case where I'd actually want to check in
> code if a module is a preview - hence my question as to what your use
> case is).
>
> Feels like YAGNI to me.
> Paul.
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Re: [Python-Dev] OS X build break

2012-02-04 Thread Meador Inge
On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 7:35 AM, Ned Deily  wrote:

> Chances are you are using llvm-gcc-4.2, the default CC for Xcode 4.2.

Yup:

motherbrain:python meadori$ sw_vers
ProductName:Mac OS X
ProductVersion: 10.7.2
BuildVersion:   11C74
motherbrain:python meadori$ gcc --version
i686-apple-darwin11-llvm-gcc-4.2 (GCC) 4.2.1 (Based on Apple Inc.
build 5658) (LLVM build 2336.1.00)
Copyright (C) 2007 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
This is free software; see the source for copying conditions.  There is NO
warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.

motherbrain:python meadori$ clang --version
Apple clang version 3.0 (tags/Apple/clang-211.12) (based on LLVM 3.0svn)
Target: x86_64-apple-darwin11.2.0
Thread model: posix

> There is a critical compile error with it (Issue13241) when building
> default (3.3).  My current recommendations (despite some test failures):
>
> - for OS X 10.7.x, use the latest released Xcode, currently Xcode 4.2.1,
> and build with clang and debug:
>
> ./configure --with-pydebug CC=clang MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET=10.7

That worked.  Thanks!

> Unfortunately, testing and sorting out the issues with the current OS X
> compilers has taken much much longer than anticipated, primarily because
> it's a big task and, until several days ago, I have had no time to
> devote to it.  But I'm making progress now with installer builds
> completed for all of default, 3.2-tip, 3.2.2, 2.7-tip, and 2.7.2, each
> with all of the major compiler combinations on 10.5, 10.6 (Xcode 3.2 and
> 4.2), and 10.7 (4.1 and 4.2); the tests are running now on each of the
> applicable environments (that will take about another week to complete).
> Realistically, we should be able to have everything tested, fixed, and
> documented by the end of the PyCon sprints next month.  We will also
> have some recommendations for buildbot changes.

I volunteer to help out if there is anything I can do.

> BTW, the current test failures with clang without pydebug include a
> number of ctypes test failures (in ctypes.test.test_cfuncs.CFunctions).
> If anyone has time to further investigate those, it would be very
> helpful (Issue13370).

I will look into those.

-- 
# Meador
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